Is providing income for your family enough to sustain your relationship? 🧐
In this episode, Janelle and Andrew Devlin dive into a no-holds barred conversation about what makes their relationship keep ticking. We'll cover the Enneagram, Love Languages (did you know there is a sixth?) and much more. We also discuss Drs. Les and Leslie Parrot, authors of multiple books about relationships, including Crazy Good Sex. Success in LOVE is where the greatest fulfillment lies... so let’s get down to it!
Is providing income for your family enough to sustain your relationship? 🧐
In this episode, Janelle and Andrew Devlin dive into a no-holds barred conversation about what makes their relationship keep ticking. We'll cover the Enneagram, Love Languages (did you know there is a sixth?) and much more. We also discuss Drs. Les and Leslie Parrot, authors of multiple books about relationships, including Crazy Good Sex. Success in LOVE is where the greatest fulfillment lies... so let’s get down to it!
Janelle Devlin (00:00):
Hey everybody, Janelle and Andrew Devlin here, and welcome to Devlin Worldwide Love Plus Money. Hey everybody welcome to Love Plus Money with Janelle and Andrew. Hey for today were going to have this be a little PG 13. We're talking about relationships, and so we just want to give you a heads up for little ears, but we believe that when our relationships are solid, when they're grounded, spiritually, emotionally, physically, that great things come from that. If we don't really address the core of our emotional needs, then other things can really feel unstable in our life. We can feel like things are volatile. We're having successes professionally, but then things at home are falling apart.
Janelle Devlin (00:45):
We really want to make sure that you as our listeners, as our friends feel like you're growing in your groundedness, in your relationships. Just wanted to give you that heads up for today, that we're talking about relationships. Therefore, maybe keep it to just adult ears. All right thanks so much. So guys today we are talking about relationships as promised from our podcast number two, which was the gift of challenges. If you haven't listened, we want to encourage you to go back and listen. It was about a 35 minute episode, and we really went deep on how do we define problems or challenges? Because if we don't have a good mindset around that, then when we're talking about relationships, it just gets messy.
Andrew Devlin (01:28):
It does. Business is pretty easy compared to relationships.
Janelle Devlin (01:33):
That's so true.
Andrew Devlin (01:36):
It's like playing a game and you don't know what the rules are.
Janelle Devlin (01:40):
That's right.
Andrew Devlin (01:41):
The rules change.
Janelle Devlin (01:41):
The rules do change. On our podcast Love Plus Money, we talk about love, we talk about money, and we break that down into doing success well, having thriving relationships, not having to sacrifice who you are as a parent, as a spouse, who you are in your relationships. Also, your mindset, your mindset around these things. Having our experience professionally and personally bringing that in. Then our health, making sure that we're good at body, mind and spirit. Then finally having some home hacks, some success hacks for the home. Because we get you guys are live fast-paced lives, and sometimes we just need to learn from each other and get some fresh ideas.
Janelle Devlin (02:22):
So today talking about relationships and we first want to start with the overarching umbrella, because we always end with what are our top five takeaways. The overarching umbrella is know the relationship game you're in. As we talk about relationships, Andrew, and last time we alluded to this, but we talked about how important it is for us to know each other. Let's maybe talk first about a couple of tools that have been helpful for us. We went away for our anniversary two years ago, and since our last recording we celebrated 17 years. Again, if you didn't hear that episode of us like we were both I think not too certain about what year it was, which is a good thing, because we're just in love, right?
Andrew Devlin (03:07):
That's right.
Janelle Devlin (03:08):
Well, however you want to say it.
Andrew Devlin (03:11):
It's officially 17.
Janelle Devlin (03:12):
Officially 17 years of being married.
Andrew Devlin (03:13):
In July it'll be 18 years of knowing each other.
Janelle Devlin (03:16):
Of knowing each other, and we'll still celebrate.
Andrew Devlin (03:18):
We're a few weeks away from knowing each other.
Janelle Devlin (03:22):
When we met each other. Let's talk about some of the tools, and then we promised everyone we'll tell the short version of how we met. But let's talk about two of the tools we took away on the anniversary trip, Enneagram and the Better Love.
Andrew Devlin (03:36):
Better Love. Do not just search Better Love on the internet, but do Better Love assessment. Or you may see other images.
Janelle Devlin (03:43):
Yes. Better Love assessment. We're big fans of Les and Leslie Parrott I think is how you pronounce their last name. Parrott or maybe, no Parrott, we're big fans of them, Les and Leslie Parrott. We'll put what we're talking about in the show notes today, and so you guys can go on and see those. But we took those two things, how has that helped us to better know each other because we wish we knew that earlier in our relationship?
Andrew Devlin (04:05):
We scheduled a trip away and we agreed I think it was from 1:00 till 3:00 each afternoon we would get these assessments out. We started with the Enneagram and Janelle found the Enneagram and she found the Better Love assessment. I'm just a passenger on this wild show. I remember Janelle saying, "This is the first time I feel like I understand you and know why you behave the way you behave." Do you want to elaborate?
Janelle Devlin (04:39):
Yeah. Because if you guys know the Enneagram Andrew's an eight. I'll let you figure out what I am if you guys know the Enneagram. But he's an eight and so he can be very direct, he's very to the point, he's a knower. I had to work through, I had to process out loud my feelings, my thoughts, my emotions. Andrew just has this deep knowing, he's a knower I'm a feeler and that can be a real challenge. So if you're listening, chances are you're either the knower or the feeler and you just wonder how the other person functions from that place, because it doesn't make sense to you. That really helped us to have and I like with the Enneagram I'm a big fan of Ian Morgan Cron. As this podcast grows, I would love to have him on here. We will have him on here one day, I'm just putting it out there. His book, The Road Back to You is fantastic. We did that to know each other. I'll just say, okay my Enneagram number is a seven. How we work together, this helped us to know each other because we can see what is it that drives each of us, and what is an emotion that we're looking for in our life, and how does that look in everyday?
Andrew Devlin (05:54):
It's like Janelle in a healthy seven, average seven or unhealthy seven it's very, very different. She's still being a seven same as me in my healthy eight or unhealthy eight. It's getting to know that I think one of the best bits of advice I got is to have a great relationship you've got to love the things that you hate. What I mean by that is Janelle is super, super social in case you haven't guessed. Which normally means when she's with somebody she's so present time doesn't exist.
Janelle Devlin (06:26):
That's so true.
Andrew Devlin (06:29):
I have a clock and I'm pretty on with my clock. I'm like hey we need to get here, why is she talking to somebody else? We're going to be late for the next place. Or why are we the last people in church again? I'm hungry and I want to eat.
Janelle Devlin (06:46):
Talking about knowing each other and talking about what this is all about, why we're even doing this video podcast, having our YouTube channel is because we want you guys to know that it is possible to do successful and relationships well, and to celebrate the gifts along the way. So Sunday for example we're celebrating a gift along the way. This is why when you're looking over like why are we still at church, and you see me crying with somebody-
Andrew Devlin (07:12):
Did not see her crying about it.
Janelle Devlin (07:13):
It was the second time I had cried that day.
Andrew Devlin (07:16):
What I mean by loving the things that you hate, I love that Janelle is so caring and passionate and lifts other people up. The effect of that is that we might not be leaving on time, or at least my perception.
Janelle Devlin (07:32):
Your perception. Where mine I have built in that that's what you do is you connect with people afterwards. I will say, and I don't know if I told you this whole story, but the reason I was there is went to give someone a hug, they said, "Hey I've been wanting to reach out to you, I've been watching you guys online, and I just want to say that I love seeing Andrew's relationship with your girls." If you guys don't know we've adopted two of our girls through the foster care system, and it's been three and a half years. She's just like, "Just watching your family," and then she's told us how she had lost her father at a young age in a car accident. Then had a stepfather that was not the loving kind of dad that she wished she had. A lot of trauma came from that, as you can imagine.
Janelle Devlin (08:16):
Even as an adult, even in her adult years now having kids of her own, still that hurt is there and working through that she said even with her therapist, and she said it was just this timing where she was really working through still these emotions, and shortcoming to other parts of just who she is, any sort of hardship or trauma does that. She said, "And then I looked over and I saw Andrew with," I don't know which girl was on your knee I guess during that time, and who knows you're very touchy feely, and just [inaudible 00:08:48] and she just said, "It was just what I needed. It was just what my soul needed to see that example." I'm bringing that up because that for me was a win, that was the reason why it brought a tear to my eye or a few tears. It's because first of all I wasn't expecting it, and that's what we want.
Janelle Devlin (09:03):
I don't care the bank account balance. Yes we do really well in business and we're thankful for that, we want to use our money well in this world. But the biggest thing is our impact and are we good? Are we good with our kids? Are we putting our relationship on the back burner in pursuit of being highlighted online? Our kids in the background? Or are we bringing people into our every day? That's our desire. Not that we do it perfectly, or nor will we ever, but that is our desire. We want that for you guys as well, to feel like this is like in our first podcast, the illusion of balance, like this is harmony, it's this flux and this flow. But through it all if our relationships can be good, and if you are married in your marriage relationship, then we believe that is really that core of you spiritually and you in your marriage relationship, and then everything else really stems from them.
Andrew Devlin (09:57):
Even a bigger priority than children. There's a lot of couples that they put their identity into that of the child or the children. When that child grows up and no longer needs them they're like who is this person I've been with for the 20 plus years?
Janelle Devlin (10:11):
I can see how it can be so easy to get... We've had people speak into our lives even in our younger married years, that I think has helped us to make sure that we're good first.
Andrew Devlin (10:21):
It's loving the parts. I've got to be able to have grace. Janelle is an extrovert, she is social, and I'm very focused on certain things. You're never going to hear me saying I went up to hug somebody, that's just not me. I'm like hey how are you doing? A bit chit-chat and now I want food. That's where I come from. If we don't communicate correctly, we have completely different ideas of how something will go. Because Janelle's going to look at it through the eyes of a seven, and I'm going to look it through the eyes of an eight. To understand me, to understand how a seven perceives the world, and for Janelle to understand how I perceive the world, I think so many people they want you to change the other person, and it's rather than accepting that's who they are. There's going to be awesome things about that personality trait, and there's going to be challenging things. But if I get rid of Janelle's want to connect and pour into people, I get rid of her social, I get rid of that caring part. If I was just like hey, I just want Janelle on time, I want to get into church get out, then I would not have married her.
Janelle Devlin (11:37):
Because that's how we connected, was having fun together. You said that there was a light about me. I liked your certainty, and I knew very early on in our relationship that when you said you were going to do something you are going to do it.
Andrew Devlin (11:49):
That's me.
Janelle Devlin (11:49):
You've always been very, very reliable. If you tell someone on our team hey, I'm going to do this for this time with your team, you're very timely. Unless something massive has happened, you're not going to cancel or change, you're very reliable and I love that about you. But then again with that, so that's a big part of really our first two tips are knowing yourself and knowing your spouse. The Enneagram big fans of that, I'm sure that'll come into our podcast.
Andrew Devlin (12:15):
We're not going to get into all of that because there's other resources out there if you want to dive in.
Janelle Devlin (12:20):
Put that in the show notes.
Andrew Devlin (12:22):
And learn about the Enneagram like The Road Back to You, and then the podcast and technology. Again, great ones if you want to take that deeper. We stumbled on Les and Leslie driving back from a date night. We were listening to the radio and something came up. Before we got home Janelle had already bought the assessment, which is about 30 bucks or something like that.
Janelle Devlin (12:42):
Better Love assessment.
Andrew Devlin (12:44):
And done it. I got home and I did mine. You only get the results once you've both done the assessment. It nailed us didn't it? It was like-
Janelle Devlin (12:54):
With another layer. Enneagram's great but you can really get down a rabbit hole with a lot of that. Know yourself, but then it's knowing how you function together, what things you might argue about? What might be tension points? Then it brings your two personalities together. Whereas Enneagram is like... And there's other resources out there I'm sure for couples for this, but Better Love assessment has been great and we have... Yes we took that time, couple of hours on the rooftop of our vacation.
Andrew Devlin (13:22):
One of those things is there's different categories of your marriage. There's always categories that somebody will try to avoid, and that might be finances. They don't bring it up because there's pain there or maybe it's intimacy, or maybe it's... I can't keep this up.
Janelle Devlin (13:42):
Like with kids or how you connect with kids, if you feel like you're on different pages but you don't want to talk about it because you feel like there's friction there. Then we can start to get into this well your dad, well your mom, and then have the kids feel, and that's the worst thing for a child to feel like there's dissonance between their parents.
Andrew Devlin (13:56):
We need to be a united front and the same so there's no a kid's going let's ask mom this. The way I look at it is two horses with a cart. We have to be going the same direction. If the horses are going this way, it's disastrous. For us, with our radically different personality types coming together and going what's our objective, what's our outcome? Making sure that we're equally yoked going that direction. Not that we have different visions of what that thing is. I think so many times couples have these nebulous talks like well, we want a great marriage, are we both in agreement? Yes. But Janelle's definition of a great marriage and my definition of it being a great marriage can be radically different. We talked on a walk a couple of days ago, I can be completely meeting Janelle's needs as a husband and she's lit up, and I can feel lonely and distant. It's always-
Janelle Devlin (14:54):
Why is that?
Andrew Devlin (14:55):
Well, why do you? I'll let you fill that in.
Janelle Devlin (15:00):
I guess I would say that that's because your needs aren't being met or maybe you're putting off your needs feeling like, well, the most important thing is her. It's that dependency versus both being individually grounded, it's more of a leaning on each other, which yes there lean on me whatever. But no, it's like be solid yourself so that gap can be bridged. Is that what you would say?
Andrew Devlin (15:29):
Yeah. It's like this is how couples go I never saw the divorce.
Janelle Devlin (15:33):
Never saw it coming.
Andrew Devlin (15:35):
We need couples therapy. It's just that one person, Janelle's got different needs in the marriage than I have.
Janelle Devlin (15:42):
Like laundry.
Andrew Devlin (15:42):
Like laundry, I like laundry.
Janelle Devlin (15:43):
You help me a lot with laundry but you don't like doing it.
Andrew Devlin (15:50):
I hate it, I hate laundry. But I also like clothes that are cleaned otherwise I'd get arrested. It's doing the things around the house that's important to Janelle. You guys have probably done the five love languages, I heard there was a sixth and that's-
Janelle Devlin (16:08):
Space.
Andrew Devlin (16:09):
Space.
Janelle Devlin (16:09):
Having space and time away. Knowing yourself, knowing your spouse. Now what do you do if someone who's listening, I know there's people listening that are like I get that, I want that. I feel like I know myself, I feel like I actually really know my spouse, but we're not tracking. What would be the next best step would you say to bring that connection and communication? For you and I we mentioned this on podcast number two, gift of challenges, that we go for walks a lot, and we make each other get out for those walks, because we know that's when the best stuff comes up.
Janelle Devlin (16:45):
When you walk there's something that happens. We learned this even with our kids in our homeschool journey it's like when we activate with the left and the right side of our body, certain parts of our brain just wake up, we just frankly feel more balanced. We're able to just breathe, process better or process better. Walking is great, and maybe it's just finding something like that. But what else? What about as people come up to come to you and say, I get it but I feel like my spouse is just not there. Maybe that's from past hurts, maybe there's some legit reasons.
Andrew Devlin (17:18):
A lot of times we're reacting from our past, our past hurt. I was working with a guy and I said, "Look, you didn't wound your wife, but she got emotionally shut." I was like, "If your wife right now had a prior gun wound, you would try and heal her, you would look after her." Sometimes we've got relationships from the past that we've had scars from, but it's my job to help heal that scar and it's Janelle's job to help heal that scar. We don't know we got them, because these wounds can become part of our identity. When my clients are talking about I'm not firing with my spouse, one of the biggest things is they don't know what their definition of success is in their relationship in their family. An example, I work with guys and girls, but the guys are generally like you know what, we got a great house, I get a great income.
Andrew Devlin (18:19):
The wife might be just saying but I never see you. Yeah but you will. Once I get to this next level and then we'll be good. It's always that promise of in the future, in the future. The message they send to their spouse is I'm always going to grow, I'm always going to expand, and what you want isn't part of my definition of success. We've got to constantly come back to what is our definition of success in our family? Most people they set off and again the guys are really bad for this. But they go, "You know what I want to provide for my family." I go, "Well what does that look like?" They go, "Income." They don't talk about emotional provision, it's just financial and physical. It's just like I'm not there for them, I'm just there for them. I'm making them money. A lot of guys feel like they can't make their spouse happy.
Janelle Devlin (19:23):
That's the number one thing they say.
Andrew Devlin (19:25):
Number one thing. I had a conversation about this with one of my female clients yesterday. It was a boyfriend who's just going I can't make you happy. For a man our biggest fear is that we can't make our spouse happy. Generally a woman's biggest fear is that she will not be loved long-term. My failing in the past is I wrapped my identity, my worth into Janelle's happiness. If Janelle wasn't happy, it felt like I was failing as a man.
Janelle Devlin (20:03):
It can just be me working through a disappointment or being hormonal or whatever. You put it on you.
Andrew Devlin (20:10):
Yeah, your pants were in the drier too long and now they're tight.
Janelle Devlin (20:12):
There was a time, it's summertime now. Last summer, and I was beating myself up, like I've been working out hard, I'm eating clean and these shorts are just so tight are so uncomfortable, warmed like a party or something. I think that evening I came in and I was like, "I don't even know where these shorts came from." They were like another part of Navy shorts. I was trying to fit my athletic body let's just say, I was trying to fit my booty into a size two short, gap short. I don't know where these shorts came from, why they were in my closet, because I'm never going to be a size two. Maybe when I had knee surgery and my whole leg atrophy I could fit into something like that, but that's not me here. Here I was beating myself up, I think we might've even argued. I was in a bad mood. Like what the heck, I'm working out hard and not seeing the results. It's just because I somehow probably got my sister's shorts.
Andrew Devlin (21:09):
In the old days I would have taken that personally, like I'm not going off, she's not happy. She's trying to squeeze herself into a size two. Again, if my worth comes from her happiness, we're doomed. Same deal, if Janelle's happiness comes or Janelle's worth comes from my happiness. It's one of those things that it's Janelle's job to be happy. She needs to make herself happy, I need to make myself happy.
Janelle Devlin (21:37):
Spiritually, mentally, physically.
Andrew Devlin (21:41):
But I'm not actively trying to make her unhappy. I'm not like, well, it's her job to be happy so I'm going to go and do what I want. There's three levels of love. When people can start to move from this it shifts. Level one love is what do I get? We've all been there when we're just thinking about what we get from that relationship. Oh, she's hot or whatever it is, that's level one. Level two is what do I get if I give? If I do the dishes, do we have sex later? Look I did the laundry, look how special I am. That's the trader or the prostitute. There's always something that they're doing to get something that what they want.
Andrew Devlin (22:22):
Then level three is an unrequited love, which is what can I give? I think about those people out there that have kids. You don't go I love that kid because they're going to do something for me. They crap themselves and then you wipe their bum and it's on your fingers and it stinks and it's gross, you're not expecting anything in return. I thought that is the purest expression of love. It's like nobody in their right mind would say one day I want to wipe another human being's poop. It's disgusting. But we do it because we love our children. What if we approach marriage like that? It's like I'm going to give. Now, this is the thing I hear this all the time-
Janelle Devlin (23:08):
I'm going to deal with the crap, but I'm going to have the attitude around it of like knowing that sometimes we as females have our storms, we have our things, but it's just you're that constant force, you're not exploding, you're not letting emotions get to a 10.
Andrew Devlin (23:20):
Because the storm isn't coming to attack me, I'm just the closest thing to the storm so I'm going to get wet and cold. Does that make sense?
Janelle Devlin (23:30):
It's a good visual.
Andrew Devlin (23:31):
My job is to put my rain jacket on, not go why is the storm attacking me? It's not, it's just a storm. Janelle will have some storms as do I, and it's not personal. Sometimes we just have to work through it. It's just we generally affect the person that's the closest to the storm.
Janelle Devlin (23:51):
One person we love the most, the people we love the most.
Andrew Devlin (23:54):
Tornado touched down not too far away from here yesterday, and that tornado is not going after that house, it just happens to be in the way. It's not vindictive, it's not trying to sabotage that family, they're just in the way.
Janelle Devlin (24:08):
So what can we do, and maybe men and women, when we know we're in a storm? There's things frustrating us, whether it's with home life, with personally, professionally we're feeling frustrated. What's a self-check so it doesn't feel like an attack on the person we love the most?
Andrew Devlin (24:29):
I feel like a lot of things is, again I'm speaking for us. Best thing I can do for Janelle mostly is kick her out.
Janelle Devlin (24:39):
I was hoping we'd get to that. So when there's a storm and you can tell you are really good, you've gotten really good at kicking me out. All right guys, let's talk about what that is, because it's not like I'm out of here. It's knowing that we both need to just be able to get out. You'll say to me, "Get on out go to the gym." Sometimes I just go to Trader Joe's and walk around and find some treasures. But a lot of times you just know, okay, you know what, it's like 3:00 o'clock, you've been bombarded with admin stuff all day, you know that I need to get out.
Janelle Devlin (25:13):
But kicking each other out we joke about that, and it's never from a place of anger. It's saying I love you, I know what you need. You know what you need, but you just don't know it right now because you're in a storm. I love you. How about you take the next hour, I got the kids and go on to the gym, usually it's a little more than that, but you have to find what works in your relationship depending. How about you go upstairs and just take a nap. You'll come on and you'll put on... I'm not a sit and watch TV person, unless you say I put on Full House or something from my childhood. He's like I want you to go-
Andrew Devlin (25:49):
I do not watch it. That's not my jam right there, but it is Janelle's.
Janelle Devlin (25:53):
It's fun and I appreciate your sentiment and the kids sometimes will come in if I want them to. But it's something like I know you need some space. But usually kicking out is like hey, giving them permission to get out of the house. But the key is to help make that happen before there's any elevated emotions.
Andrew Devlin (26:09):
And you'll fight me. She will fight me. She's just I need to finish the kitchen, I need to get this work done. She's already escalated and she's not effective at that point. It's just me going I will physically take you out of the house, and you need a break from the kids, or you need a break from work.
Janelle Devlin (26:31):
But you'll come in very lovingly you're like, "I love you." You're never going to carry me out if I'm kicking and screaming. You'll say it in the way where I'm like okay, and you'll say, "I got this or the kids got this." Our kids are at that age right now where we can do that. You can delegate some things to them so I can have a break. Define what works for you, but again as you're listening, you're the one listening not your spouse right now, maybe you're listening together that'd be awesome, you might be listening at different times. But that's the thing is what can you own so that you can support the other person in those storms? Think of some ways right now of how knowing your spouse, your significant other, when they're high stress and if you're a go-getter you're listening to this, you want to make business happen, relationships but stuff gets crazy sometimes. Knowing them, what do you think it is that they really need in that moment that you can maybe even help them to foresee it a little bit? Maybe it's making them a cup of tea, maybe it's-
Andrew Devlin (27:29):
It's the little things, it really is. It's like Janelle was busy last week and she went to the gym and I run a bath.
Janelle Devlin (27:38):
You did.
Andrew Devlin (27:39):
A salt bath because those are awesome. It's just giving each other like saying hey, you're important to me and I'm thinking of you while making a drink. But for the spouses out there-
Janelle Devlin (27:49):
You made a drink and did the bath which was very incredible.
Andrew Devlin (27:52):
I did.
Janelle Devlin (27:54):
There wasn't any other ulterior motive. It really was like hey I got this going on-
Andrew Devlin (27:59):
Now there used to be, and that's the part of the growth. It was in that level two where it was a trade. It's like well if I gave her a bath and... For the spouses out there, expect the tests, expect that there's going to be pushback. In our relationship Janelle does an incredible job at homeschooling the kids, and on Tuesday she teaches a class. It's not what Janelle said you know what I want to do?
Janelle Devlin (28:27):
It's like teaching English grammar and sentence diagramming. I've learned to really enjoy it because I do my best to bring my gifts into it, to bring something that to me feels very dull, bring some fun into it. But it is not what I would rather teach science or even math or something like that.
Andrew Devlin (28:45):
Janelle is just spent after a day doing-
Janelle Devlin (28:47):
It takes like five times the emotional energy for me to do that.
Andrew Devlin (28:51):
We agreed that Tuesday nights when Janelle's teaching homeschool-
Janelle Devlin (28:56):
Because it's like 8:30 commitment, 8:30 to 3:30 on a Tuesday.
Andrew Devlin (29:01):
You're working Mondays to get the lesson preps and all of that. She's poured herself all out. On Tuesdays at 4:00 o'clock the kids are mine and she needs to be out of the house. I want her going meeting with friends, hiking, gym. She can do whatever she wants to do-
Janelle Devlin (29:19):
Trader Joe's.
Andrew Devlin (29:19):
But she has to leave the house. That's Tuesdays. Then we know that she needs some social time as well. Once to twice a month, she'll get together with some girls and they'll go and have a meal or something, or maybe it's a hike again. But she needs that social time with other women. I can't give that. A lot of guys out there they think they need to give everything. But there's things that you can't give. Janelle can't talk to me like a girl because I perceive it like a man. We've just been going through this awesome book, and it was talking about how males have more dopamine in their brains, which means that they're very goal-focused.
Janelle Devlin (30:05):
Mm-hmm okay pause for a second, because we're going to talk about this book. With males having more dopamine, and we talk about our health. If we haven't talked to you guys about this already, then connect with us because we can talk about if you feel like your drive is just really down and lacking, we can talk about that because there's so much we can do when we address our gut and our gut bacteria.
Andrew Devlin (30:26):
That's business drive, it's sexual drive and that's-
Janelle Devlin (30:32):
Motivation to go to the gym, to do the things-
Andrew Devlin (30:33):
Dopamine's massive.
Janelle Devlin (30:33):
Do the things on your list. To feel like you have that oomph, and that comes down to that neurotransmitter. There's actually really a biological aspect here, but as we age and things that are happening, so yes so we can talk about that. So yes this book that's also by Les and Leslie.
Andrew Devlin (30:51):
Just Les.
Janelle Devlin (30:51):
This one is just Les, because this book is for men and we'll put this down in the show notes. This is what Andrew's been listening to this book.
Andrew Devlin (30:58):
We have.
Janelle Devlin (30:58):
We've both been listening.
Andrew Devlin (30:59):
It's brought up some great conversation. The book title's called Crazy Good Sex. It talks about the differences between men and women, and it breaks down some of the fallacies that we've got around intimacy.
Janelle Devlin (31:16):
Corn flakes.
Andrew Devlin (31:17):
Who knew? Corn flakes-
Janelle Devlin (31:20):
Don't spoil it they'll have to listen.
Andrew Devlin (31:22):
You know what chapter one.
Janelle Devlin (31:23):
Dr. Kellogg or Mr. Kellogg.
Andrew Devlin (31:26):
Corn flakes.
Janelle Devlin (31:28):
Leave them hanging Andrew.
Andrew Devlin (31:28):
You're not going to believe me. It was true and then she listened to it too. But it is we've got differences. Men are very goal-focused even intimacy. When that moment comes, as that thinking that moment comes, that dopamine is I want intimacy now let's go. Then I'm like why is Janelle folding laundry? She doesn't fancy me, she doesn't desire me. What's wrong? Why is her drive so much lower than mine? We're not equal on this part. What we've learned from this book is it's not that, do you want to explain to the ladies what it is?
Janelle Devlin (32:08):
Well, I feel like I'm just in the beginning stages of learning about it. It's just that we just emotionally need to feel connected before anything else.
Andrew Devlin (32:15):
They need the emotional connection but if they've got anything going on in their brain-
Janelle Devlin (32:19):
Oh my gosh.
Andrew Devlin (32:20):
It's like they can be ready for intimacy, but they like-
Janelle Devlin (32:24):
It's like I have to download things first.
Andrew Devlin (32:26):
Is the car locked? I need to get that laundry out of the washer because otherwise it's going to smell tomorrow. I should probably brush my teeth and wash my face. The guy's going this is the moment I'm ready. Because their dopamine's through the roof and they want that target now. For a woman to become aroused, they need to clear out all the clatter. If there's other things, so if they come to the bedroom and they see a pile of laundry, guys that laundry is stopping them from being as intimate as they would like to be. Does that make sense? One of the fallacies is that we have different levels of drive. He said most men and women are about equal in terms of their sexual drive. But what's your space like? If there's things out that it's taken up mental space they cannot connect into that intimacy part. We've been learning about that.
Janelle Devlin (33:26):
It's knowing ourselves, it's knowing our spouse. It's talking about those three levels of love, and really thinking about that and saying am I doing this as a trade off, or am I doing this with open hands to say I love you and I'm going to do this because I love you? Like we've been saying in business and just being committed, but not attached to the result. Again, like you said, if there's some past hurts, you just have to know. This is what we say get some professional help with counseling, there's some awesome counselors out there, some great therapists. Because sometimes it's working through those. We can't just expect to say hey, I said I'm sorry, why can't we just start fresh? You have to with your partner, work through those, you have to know it's going to be a rebuilding. That's very real, but knowing that there are those three levels of love and working through that. Then knowing how to kick each other out is the fourth one, kick each other out. But again, that comes from the knowing that what we need-
Andrew Devlin (34:23):
In love.
Janelle Devlin (34:24):
In love. Out of love, never out of anger. I'll make sure I put that in. Kicking them out, out of love never out of anger. That for you again that's mountain biking, it's going to the gym, it's playing video games with [Cade 00:34:37] every once in a while with our son. I'm cool with that because it's not all the time, it's fun-
Andrew Devlin (34:43):
Me and my son are very competitive.
Janelle Devlin (34:43):
It's bonding, I'm good with that that's what you need.
Andrew Devlin (34:48):
For me it's like as much as Janelle needs the social time, I need the solo time. I need to be out on a mountain on my own to gather my thoughts, not to think at all. One of the reasons I love mountain biking is if you think you generally go off a cliff and it's messy. For me to be in that flow state where I'm not a businessman, I'm not a husband, I'm not a dad. I'm not thinking about anything else I can just be present. Some people get that from meditation I get antsy. Meditation for me is on a bike at full speed. Janelle knows that, and she'll say, "Hey, why don't you go and get out on your bike?" I'm like [inaudible 00:35:30]. It's so powerful when somebody goes they know me. When I've-
Janelle Devlin (35:34):
Gives you permission.
Andrew Devlin (35:35):
When I've kicked Janelle out and the fight, the pushback's began, a lot of times that makes you say, "You know me better than I know me. You know exactly what I needed before I know I need it." She goes, "You love me so much you really get me." That's one of the big things for Janelle, Janelle needs to feel known and understood. We've had arguments before where Janelle's like, "You're not listening, you're not listening." Because she has to feel known and understood. I was like try me. She goes, "What I'm I saying?" I've said it and she's like, "That's exactly what I'm thinking and saying. Why do I feel so misunderstood?" Remember I was like, "Well I completely disagree with you." She went, "Oh, okay. Do you want to go out for dinner tonight?" It was over as long as she knows that I understand her and I can see it from her angle, she's good. Where in the old days we are both quite competitive. If I win, I'm not going to be trampled down, I'm not going to be weak. That's how I approach things.
Janelle Devlin (36:41):
You approach it like what we're going to talk about in the next couple of episodes. You approach it like it's a finite game, not an infinite game that it is. Marriage is an infinite game, and if you guys don't know the infinite games this is what we'd like to spend a little time with, just because this whole concept for business and personal life is so incredible. If we treat it like there's an end like a football game, there's a very finite end. In business there is not. You might win one month, and like Andrew said you might have a month the next month is a lower month. That doesn't mean you don't win, it's a long-term. We're in for the long haul, and relationships are a long haul game. If we're treating it like I'm the winner and you lost this, that's just not, we have to know the relationship game we're in, and that just can't come in can it? Because it's so unhealthy. We have to look at it like okay, this is a marathon. Not even that, because there's an end to a marathon. This is for the long haul-
Andrew Devlin (37:37):
It's a journey. It's like nomads. They never got where they were going because it was the journey, and if we can follow north.
Janelle Devlin (37:46):
And what you learn along the way.
Andrew Devlin (37:48):
We were talking with Janelle's aunt and uncle who are in their 80s. I was talking to him he's like, "I love my wife now more than ever." It's like wow, we got that to look forward to after 17 years-
Janelle Devlin (38:02):
Not just a bunch of bitterness that I feel like a lot of couples that have stayed married-
Andrew Devlin (38:05):
And they've gone through the tough times.
Janelle Devlin (38:07):
Gone through the tough times. But if we're not careful, it can end up with yeah we're still together, but there's a lot of bitterness that's being held onto.
Andrew Devlin (38:14):
It's forgiving, it's letting go. It's one of those things that she causes me to grow and I cause her to grow, and there is friction because of that. Communication is massive. It's like you can see we're referencing a lot of books because we've had coaching for relationships, we've read books on relationships, we've been to seminars. I went to the Wild at Heart you went to the Captivating Heart seminar and we've done marriage retreats. It's something that we prioritize that we know that, again I've coached so many people, and they have the cars, the house, which is nothing wrong with that, but they made that the goal. Then the kids hate them and their marriage is dissolved.
Andrew Devlin (39:01):
Every single one of them said it wasn't worth it. Multi, multi-millionaires it wasn't worth it. Now you can still be a multi, multi-millionaire and have a great marriage and have great kids, but that's why that blueprint of your personal definition of success needs to be done. I can have my definition of success, and I remember showing Janelle a house maybe about five years ago. I was like, "Look at this house, tell me the first thing that you think or feel when you look at these pictures?" She went, "Lonely." I went, "Lonely? This is my dream house, it doesn't have neighbors around. I could pee off my deck and nobody can see me." That's the definition of success for me.
Janelle Devlin (39:44):
That's you living your best life.
Andrew Devlin (39:46):
I thought it was the perfect house, and she goes, "There's no neighbors, who are the kids going to play with?"
Janelle Devlin (39:53):
It was seriously like on a mountain in the middle of nowhere.
Andrew Devlin (39:57):
I still love that, but that's not our personal definition of success it's just mine.
Janelle Devlin (40:04):
That's our fifth tip is know your personal definition of success. If you can, if your partner is willing, what's their personal definition of success? We encourage you to put that into even these categories or pillars we have of what is it for business? What is it for our marriage?
Andrew Devlin (40:22):
What is it for income?
Janelle Devlin (40:23):
I guess you can break that down like marriage have one, and then if you have kids, kids as the other. What is it for our health? What is it for our home?
Andrew Devlin (40:31):
What's it for intimacy?
Janelle Devlin (40:33):
Of course, it's true.
Andrew Devlin (40:35):
All of these are so important, but again knowing how that other person thinks and then coming together, I think compromise is the wrong word, but it's just like seeing what am I willing to let go of because it doesn't equal the greater joy of my wife and kids? That's just one of those things that you grow. If your kids are older, they need to be included in your definition of success.
Janelle Devlin (41:00):
Very true. If you kids are out of the house doesn't mean they shouldn't be included because it's investing. No matter what we've learned and through a lot of our friends, kids never outgrow the need to be able to have solid parent relationships, to know you're there. You might not think it matters that they're at college and you're sending them a text, but it does. It matters your connection. You saying how are you really doing? They're never, even me being in my 40s it's still really important the conversations I have with my parents. Because it just shows... There's just something at the core of us that we need.
Andrew Devlin (41:34):
Asking questions like how could I make you feel even more loved?
Janelle Devlin (41:39):
If you say that be ready for the response. Be able to just take it and hear it and not react. Repeat that if you need to.
Andrew Devlin (41:50):
We've done this a few times. I remember we were in a huge argument and we're in the laundry room of all places in our last house. I said, "Let's go into the bedroom." I said, "You tell me exactly how you feel and I won't say a word." Janelle was like, "You'll interrupt me." I was like, "I won't." I sat there an hour?
Janelle Devlin (42:13):
I don't know I probably blocked it out.
Andrew Devlin (42:14):
All right. At the end not defending, and again, I think we're going to do a part two of this. I really want to talk about the three levels of masculinity and the three levels of femininity.
Janelle Devlin (42:24):
Let's do that next yeah before we get into the-
Andrew Devlin (42:24):
And women and dragons. It's one of those things that if I think I'm defending myself where in actuality I'm wounding her. Does that make sense? How much time have we got? I've got something that-
Janelle Devlin (42:48):
I think we should bring that into the next one honestly.
Andrew Devlin (42:49):
I don't know maybe.
Janelle Devlin (42:51):
I think so.
Andrew Devlin (42:52):
How much longer have we got?
Janelle Devlin (42:55):
Give a quick, and then we can go deeper with the next one. Defending versus...
Andrew Devlin (43:00):
This can change a marriage right here. Guys imagine you come home and your wife looks at you and says I want you right now. Number one we'll smile like the Cheshire cat, go upstairs. 10 seconds she stops and says thank you very much and walks out the room. You'd be like huh, what was that about? In an hour she comes back up to you and says hey, that was great let's do it again. You're like okay. I want you and you're like okay. All right, ready this time. Five seconds she stops and leaves. Thank you very much. You're like what? She does it eight times to you in one day. Guys, how would you feel? Why would you think the guys feel?
Janelle Devlin (43:44):
I don't even want to say. This is already PG 13 for me so.
Andrew Devlin (43:48):
Well, we can take it up a notch, because I'm going to take you up a notch. Again, if you [inaudible 00:43:55].
Janelle Devlin (43:54):
We'll put a little in sure.
Andrew Devlin (44:00):
Every guy I've asked-
Janelle Devlin (44:01):
I feel like you're teasing me.
Andrew Devlin (44:02):
Every guy I asked said I would be so frustrated, I would think that she's insane and that she's just playing with me and trying to mess me up. I was like okay. Because if a guy hasn't finished, he hasn't finished. He needs to release in order for him to feel like he's satisfied there. Does that make sense?
Janelle Devlin (44:27):
Wow. Mm-hmm.
Andrew Devlin (44:29):
So women-
Janelle Devlin (44:30):
This is the most common thing you say you talk to your clients about, so I feel like-
Andrew Devlin (44:33):
It's a big one.
Janelle Devlin (44:33):
No matter what it is just something, and this is [inaudible 00:44:37].
Andrew Devlin (44:37):
Really frustrate a guy. Have a great conversation with him it's not going to happen, because he's frustrated. For guys, when our women talk to us, and guys have you ever had a conversation it's 11:30 at night and you've talked for an hour, and the next day your wife says we never talk? You're like what are you talking about? I stayed up extra late, we went for that massive walk. We talk all the time. Guys back me up, can you relate to that? We feel like we're talking but this is what happens. Janelle starts telling me about her struggles, her disappointments, the things that are hard in the marriage. I go, this is getting really messy, let me stuff it all back in there. Just like men need to ejaculate in order to feel like they've had the intercourse, women generally don't ever get the ability to emotionally ejaculate over their man. Because the guy is like it's getting messy stop, stop, stop, stop. Their frustration levels, guys have you ever seen it?
Andrew Devlin (45:44):
The more you talk, the more frustrated they get, because it's our job to let them emotionally ejaculate all over us where it does not affect our worth. Because we know that they need to get all the emotion out. You're not trying to fix it, you're not trying to help, you're just going to go and what else? How else did that make you feel? Because when a woman can fully release all the emotion that she's been keeping in there, that's when she feels understood. That's when she feels known, and that's when she sees our strength, like hey he's not running away, he's not attacking. We did a relationship seminar and he said, "Can you own your masculinity in front of your wife?" I was like yeah piece of cake. He said, "But you can't talk and you can't touch." I was like how do I do it then? Then he said to Janelle, "And if he's not owning his masculinity, you can punch him as hard as you can." Remember this.
Janelle Devlin (46:42):
No.
Andrew Devlin (46:45):
You don't remember this, you really don't remember this?
Janelle Devlin (46:45):
When is this?
Andrew Devlin (46:45):
With Ben.
Janelle Devlin (46:47):
I was wondering if that was when it was. I was thinking of a smaller group.
Andrew Devlin (46:51):
So then the excuses started coming from me, I was like, "Well, Janelle can punch so hard. We're not dealing with a normal woman, she can knock me out." He's like, "I thought you said you could own your masculinity and your presence." I was like well yeah I can. I remember you did whack me, but I didn't retreat and I didn't attack. Didn't hide, I just stayed present, and the only thing I could do is love her more in that moment. It was weird because all the girls started crying at the same time. It wasn't till I realized later that the feminine and we're going to get into this more on our next podcast, but the feminine is designed to test the masculine. But if I see that as her attacking me, I'll hear guys going she's just so bitchy. It's like no she's feminine and she's testing. Again I don't take it personally. Women need to emotionally ejaculate, guys-
Janelle Devlin (47:52):
Release works okay as well.
Andrew Devlin (47:54):
No, it sticks in their brain. Guys would you like you want me to ejaculate, there you go see. They need to emotionally ejaculate all over you, and you can only do that if you're close and present. Does that make sense? You've got to let her get it out. When you think she's done, she ain't done. Your job is to get her again, let it happen again, let it happen again. But most men can't stand in front of a woman and let her do that. One of the best things we can do if we're ever misfiring is we sit down, we go for a walk and she lets everything out.
Janelle Devlin (48:31):
Usually walking. I do best, I get too antsy and ADD sitting because I feel... But when we're walking there's something in me on many levels that helps me feel productive in a weird way, because I feel like I'm being active, and I can just keep talking, where I can sit for maybe 15 minutes and I start getting like come on, can we stand up? We can walk and talk for an hour, hour and a half very easily.
Andrew Devlin (48:54):
Again guys it's not personal. I don't say very much, but I need to be present and listen. It's not just like okay, we'll get this out and go over with and then she'll be fine. It's really being present and genuinely being curious and interested in what they have to say, but you don't have to say much. It's been one of the best things. How much stress lifts off you when you're able to do that?
Janelle Devlin (49:17):
I always say I wish it wasn't that way, I wish that I could just work things out in my head, but I have to... That's something why we're designed to work well together. To have someone that's your match that you feel like you can process with. That really has that number five then turned into be a big focus, but it's so important. Because it's blocking off that time. From different things we've talked about today, then our call to action is find one of those areas, maybe one of the books that we have in the show notes here, podcasts, something that you're going to want to go deeper with so that you can know yourself more, know your spouse better, and just to skill up in these areas.
Janelle Devlin (49:57):
We'll keep talking about this, we'll still will do a part two, especially about the dragons, a little more the women focus. We want you guys even in thinking about this, some of this is going to be brand new information and you're like, whoa, I get it, but what do I do now? We'd love for you guys to like, subscribe, share, and then also comment on some things you'd like to talk about. Keep it PG in the comments there and we'll know what you're talking about. But to be able to talk about these things we'd be remiss, amiss, remiss? If we didn't talk about this. Because when you're in a relationship it's really important, we can't just shove it under the rug.
Andrew Devlin (50:33):
A lot of big, important things in relationships are not talked about because there's shame there, there's worth attached to that. There's stuff out there but it's not like most people are looking for those answers. We need a complete marriage. We're going to be bringing up stuff that maybe some people don't talk about, maybe some people do, but given those real life experiences. Again, we are a product of learning, applying, failing and growing. It's not just that we read books, is that we really do put it into action. Again, just plan sometime if it's the Better Love assessment, if it's the Enneagram, and like we did just two hours a day on a vacation.
Janelle Devlin (51:16):
If you're a guy listening to that book suggestion by Les Parrott.
Andrew Devlin (51:21):
Again, if you would go out there and we've been listening to it together. It's brought up great conversation. Our date night driving to the restaurant on Saturday we listened to that, and we had some great conversations around that. Again, sometimes it's just the questions. If you want to know what's important, look at your calendar and look at your credit card statement. Because you're going to see what you prioritize in your life. If it's not dates, if it's not learning about relationships. We'll learn about how to fix a car, we'll learn about how to build a deck. But how many guys are out there learning how to make a better marriage? Information's out there and just accessible as those other things, but we don't put it as a priority because it might shine a light on our weakness, and guys have been taught to never show fear, never show emotion, never show anything that can cause them to crack.
Janelle Devlin (52:15):
Our hope is that by listening and by saying close, and you might want to even listen to this again, maybe you'll hear it through even a different lens. But that you feel like you are more empowered to know what to do, empowered. That you have just that knowledge of knowing the game we're in. Knowing this relationship that we're in, that we're in for the long haul. I think all of us if you're in a relationship your goal is that it's for the long haul, that it continues to grow and flourish. Not that it's slowly a slow death, that's not what we're going for here. We're going for doing relationships well, success well. Again, we'd love for you guys since we're just getting going here, we are moving which we'll talk about in our next podcast-
Andrew Devlin (52:52):
Which is one reason we're in the bedroom. Another reason we thought we're talking about relationships so.
Janelle Devlin (52:57):
The sound has been echoing on the first two because we were in a hardwood floor room. We're figuring that, we're actually going to have a little studio in our next place and we're really excited. We won't share anymore, but we're so glad.
Andrew Devlin (53:09):
We did say that we'd tell them how we met. Do you want to... Should we do that? We'll do that in number two.
Janelle Devlin (53:13):
We're going to have to make them wait. We just got to-
Andrew Devlin (53:15):
Do that in number two. It's a pretty awesome story.
Janelle Devlin (53:18):
We really are teasing them. But you guys got some good... I did not know we were going to go there to that level, but I'm glad we did. All right guys, thanks so much for joining us, Love Plus Money, and make it an awesome day. Keep your eyes on the horizon and love yourself and love others. Talk to you later.
Andrew Devlin (53:36):
See you guys.
Janelle Devlin (53:36):
Bye.