Brooke Shifrin (00:05):

I like the way, the ways in which grizzly bears kind of forced me to think about my place in the world. And I think that there is so much to learn from, um, such an intelligent species that plays such an important role in every place that they show up.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (00:27):

Hi there, welcome to episode two of the Voices of Greater Yellowstone podcast proudly created by the Greater Yellowstone Coalition. I'm your host, Kristin Kuhn. The Greater Yellowstone Coalition is a conservation nonprofit that works with all people to protect the lands, waters, and wildlife of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem with Yellowstone and Grand Teton national parks at its core. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is one of the last, nearly intact temperate ecosystems on earth, meaning it has most of its original wildlife and plant species and contains mostly undisturbed habitat. This is a place where you can see grizzly bears foraging for food, wolf packs chasing bison, and large herds of ungulates like elk mule, deer, and pronghorn moving across the landscape. There are a lot of things to love about this special place. Today, we have a really fun episode for you all about grizzly bears. After almost disappearing from the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem they've made a miraculous recovery over the past several decades and are once again, an iconic presence on the landscape. However, there's still lots of work to be done to make sure bears and humans can both thrive here well into the future. In just a moment, we'll sit down with the Greater Yellowstone Coalition's own Brooke Shifrin to learn more about grizzly bears and discuss their role in this ecosystem. As senior wildlife program associate Brooke promotes policies and projects that enhance wildlife coexistence and landscape connectivity together. We'll chat about the histories of grizzly bears in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, how they're doing today in an ever-evolving landscape, and cover some commonly asked questions about grizzly bears. All right, let's get into it so glad to have you here.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (02:08):

So can you just tell us a little bit about what it means to be a senior wildlife program associate for GYC?

Brooke Shifrin (02:16):

Sure. Well, um, it means that my job is really cool and I get to live in a place that I love the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Um, so I, I work primarily on Southwest Montana wildlife issues. Um, and as Kristin mentioned, I get to work on, um, policy advocacy and on-the-ground projects. Um, and really the common thread through all of that work is, um, human-wildlife coexistence, and trying to address the conflicts that come with living alongside some of the most remarkable wildlife species in the world. Um, you know, I get to go to the legislative session and testify in hearings and do some lobbying. I get to, um, meet people and get to know people in communities, living alongside grizzly bears and try to create solutions with those people, um, to prevent and reduce conflicts. Um, and I get to work in coalitions of other organizations, um, to promote policies that benefit wildlife. So it's kind of, uh, every day's different and um, every day I'm working on an issue that I love. Yeah. Very cool.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (03:33):

It sounds like a lot of working with wildlife is ultimately working with people.

Brooke Shifrin (03:37):

That is true. Yeah. Kind of ironic. Yeah, totally. There are some days where I wonder if I should have studied humans right? Instead of studying wildlife. Right. Yeah.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (03:48):

That makes perfect sense. Um, how, you know, tell us a little bit about your journey to this position. So maybe, you know, where are you from what'd you study? Like what, what was your pathway to getting where you are today?

Brooke Shifrin (04:00):

Well, honestly, I feel like the pathway started when I was about three or four years old and asked my mom and dad, if I could replace all the dolls and my doll house with plastic grizzly bears and plastic wolves.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (04:15):

So this goes, this goes deep?

Brooke Shifrin (04:17):

This goes way back. Yeah. Way back, always loved bears. Um, but yeah, so when I was little, I was lucky enough to get to visit Yellowstone with my family a couple of times and, um, had a pretty profound experience that I think a lot of people have had and can relate to, which is seeing wolves and grizzly bears in Yellowstone National Park and being completely blown away by that as a, as a kid. Um, and that like truly stuck. And, um, you know, I always, I always had the opportunity to spend time in the outdoors with my family, camping and fishing, and it was always enthralled with wildlife and, um, particularly enthralled with this area. And, um, so I kind of, you know, I kind of had my mind made up when I went to, um, to college and knew that I wanted to study that ultimately I wanted to work in some realm related to wildlife and that I was really interested in ecology. Um, so I studied ecology as an undergrad at the University of Colorado in Boulder. And then, um, as I was wrapping up school, um, I just had a strong urge to get back to this region cause I love it so much and didn't really have a plan. And my boyfriend at the time, who's now my husband and I basically packed up a UHaul with no plans and drove out to Bozeman. Um, and so then I spent like a couple years probably just working on various field crews, doing, um, research projects, all kind of related to grizzly bears and their habitat. Um, and that, that really evolved into, um, a project that became my graduate school project. So I ended up going to Montana State University and studying wildlife ecology and did a project focused on grizzly bears and sort of has been just this like natural, um, one thing led to another kind of right place at the right time, I guess. Um, and so then I was lucky enough to snag an internship at GYC as I was finishing up grad school, which then evolved into this.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (06:37):

So wonderful. I'm so intrigued by stories of people who knew exactly what they were about when they were that age. Because when I was a kid, I wanted to be a blue angel, not the pilot, the airplane. Yeah. Um, I have not achieved that goal yet.

Brooke Shifrin (06:52):

That's a tough one. It's a tough, it's a pretty tough one.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (06:55):

But, um, you know, can trace that back to a formative childhood experience too, but uh, definitely not a direct line then from then to now. So you received a master's degree in animal and range science, correct? Yeah. How does animal and range science prepare you to work with grizzly bears in a place like this?

Brooke Shifrin (07:16):

Yeah. Great question. Well, if you really boil it down, um, a lot of range science is understanding how to sustainably graze livestock on grasslands range lands, and really what that is, um, is understanding how animals use habitat. Um, and in my graduate research, I focus my energy and understanding how grizzly bears use habitat. Um, and so you can sort of translate these, um, these ways of understanding how animals use habitat into these different realms. And it just so happens that, you know, it, grizzly bears encounter a lot of conflict on range lands. And I ended up working with ranchers around these grizzly bear livestock conflict issues and having that background and understanding range science has been really helpful for me and navigating those conversations with ranchers.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (08:34):

Oh, really? I think interesting part of your journey is talking about your time doing field work, researching grizzly bears, help us understand what that entails.

Brooke Shifrin (08:43):

A lot of days hiking around. Um, yeah, so there were sort of, I got, I got to participate in a few different kinds of projects. And so, um, one of those was understanding grizzly bear food sources and like what, what does a grizzly bear eat? Um, come to find out they eat like over 260 different things in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Um, but that was determined through field work like I did. And so we would basically, um, use color data from grizzly bears with, um, radio collars on their necks and go to places where grizzly bears had been spending time in recent weeks. Um, and then we would like scour the area and try to figure out what was going on. Like why were they there? Um, so we would, we would collect information about what that site was. And these were places where, you know, a grizzly bear in the, in the GPS collar data, you could tell that the grizzly bear had like stopped and spent a bunch of time in that area. So we would go to sort of those clusters of points. Um, and we would collect information about, um, vegetation and we would look for a grizzly bear scat and we would actually collect it and bring it back out with us and take it to a lab and literally sift through grizzly bear poop to try to figure out what grizzly bears had been eating. And so I got really good at figuring out like, oh, that's a huckleberry. Oh, that's like elk hair. That's um, we would just like sit in a lab and, you know, sift through.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (10:33):

So basically you, uh, you were grizzly bear CSI?

Brooke Shifrin (10:37):

Yes, exactly. It was like detective work. Yeah. And then document all that information. Um, and the cool thing that came out of that work and then work of many others. Like it was just this understanding that grizzly bears, um, tap into so many different kinds of food sources and the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. And that because of that, they're really flexible and adaptable, um, just to changing conditions over time. Um, I also got to, you know, a lot of folks have probably heard that Whitebark pine is a really important food source for grizzly bears and got to spend some time hiking into beautiful Whitebark pine forests and, um, just documenting, um, cone production and the existence of middens. Um, so these like squirrels, um, we'll basically take Whitebark pine cones and stash them in middens. Um, and then grizzly bears will raid those middens to eat the Whitebark pine seed. So we were documenting sort of density of these squirrel middens in different places, important for grizzly bears. Um, and then my project, um, was really focused on how grizzly bears use, um, deer and elk carcasses, um, resulting from, you know, these animals are enduring pretty harsh winters and often just die because winter is too tough. And, um, there's a lot of, there's typically a lot of, you know, dead deer and elk on the landscape at the end of the winter. And so, you know, a natural question from there is, are grizzly bears using that as a food source. Um, and that was really the focus of my graduate research was, um, you know, purposefully seeking out dead animals and trying to figure out of grizzly bears were eating them. It sounds kind of gruesome.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (12:44):

It does. We're still kind of in the grizzly CSI space.

Brooke Shifrin (12:47):

Yeah. It's all grizzly CSI space. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, um, a lot of people don't actively choose to look for carcasses.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (13:00):

Something you're talking about. One of the questions that we get a lot is about, you know, grizzly bear diets. And I think there's this idea that grizzlies are these just ferocious hunters and that most of their diet is, you know, chasing down deer and elk or hikers. And, um, it sounds like what you're talking about. There's actually a lot more scavenging activity happening and then they're eating some non-animal proteins.

Brooke Shifrin (13:24):

Definitely, yeah. Grizzly bears are omnivores and they they'll eat anything that they need to eat to survive. And so that means like grizzly bears are eating ants, they're eating roots, they're eating, you know, clover and other kinds of vegetation. They're eating the occasional fish, they're eating seeds. I mean, they're, they're literally eating it, everything that they can find. Um, they're like giant, um, they're kind of like giant raccoons, little like, or big, big raccoons scavenging across the land.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (14:03):

That's fascinating. I love, I love thinking about a grizzly bear with a little bandana raccoon style. So let's, you know, let's talk a little bit about the history of bears in this region because, you know, we know that they are viewed as an icon of Greater Yellowstone for sure, but it hasn't really always been that way. You know, there was a time in this landscape where their numbers were really, really low and they were threatened with extinction and, you know, they have thanks to the endangered species act managed to make a pretty remarkable recovery. And I think, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but the population went from, I, I think it's 136 bears in 1975, which is not that long ago to a pretty robust population that fluctuates between 700, 800 individuals. Now, um, obviously with these increasing numbers of bears comes the risk of more interactions with humans and livestock. You know, I guess the question really is how do we ensure that grizzly populations can remain healthy while also making sure that people can stay safe and livelihoods can stay intact, but in order to really unpack that question, I'd love to start with just really like understanding how the mechanics of the Endangered Species Act helped grizzly bears recover their numbers, what happened there? .

Brooke Shifrin (15:23):

Yeah. Well, so, you know, one of the biggest sources of grizzly bear deaths then, and now it's still the same are conflicts with people. And grizzly bears had become grizzly bears in Yellowstone, especially had become incredibly reliant on human trash, um, human handouts. And they were, um, habituated to people and food conditioned. And, um, that was leading to a lot of safety concerns, uh, for people. And so the park decided we need to close these dumps and we need to get this under control because this is, um, not gonna work out well for grizzly bears or for people if, if grizzly bears think of humans as their food source. And so after those dumps were close, the population plummeted, it was like this, there was a pretty substantial impact. Um, grizzly bears were spending so much time around, you know, dumps and campgrounds and when those dumps were closed, um, it was sort of this moment, this like moment of, um, realizing like grizzly bears are not going to be okay if we don't, um, eliminate these sources of mortality for grizzly bears. Um, there's also sort of the, the overall context that since the arrival of Europeans, grizzly bears have been kind of slowly eradicated from their range and only now occupy like less than 2% of their historic range in the lower 48 states. Um, and so grizzly bear in the 70s at the time that grizzly bears were listed on the Endangered Species Act, um, grizzly bears had retracted, um, significantly from their former range and Yellowstone grizzly bears were relying almost entirely on human food and garbage. Um, and so grizzly bears were then listed on the Endangered Species Act in 1975. And, um, a plan was developed and the whole idea there was to try to get at these different sources of mortality for grizzly bears that can all connect back to people. And you can really boil those down to roads, livestock grazing, um, and develop sites like campgrounds, um, hotels, things like that. And so basically what that recovery plan did was outline a plan for monitoring grizzly bear population health, establishing what those criteria should be to measure progress over time, um, to measure the population's health over time. Um, it established a plan for addressing these different sources of mortality. So it established standards around secure habitat, which is basically habitat that is, um, you know, protected from roads. It established standards around developed sites like campgrounds and lodging, um, things like that. And then it also established requirements around livestock grazing. And what we saw in those early years after grizzly bears were listed on the Endangered Species Act, that was that a lot of livestock grazing allotments in the core of Greater Yellowstone were retired. Um, and that eliminated a lot of conflict between bears and people. Um, so over time, I mean, it's, it's a pretty remarkable conservation success story. Grizzly bears, um, the population has continued to increase and only in recent years has sort of plateaued. The grizzly bear range has expanded pretty dramatically. Um, and now we're seeing grizzly bears show up in places that they haven't been in hundreds of years. Um, so it's a pretty cool, pretty cool story of, you know, a lot of different people from a lot of different state and federal agencies and scientists all coming together and coordinating around this recovery plan.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (20:02):

So that is certainly a remarkable story. Uh, you know, one thing that comes to mind though is clearly we still do have some challenges there with, you know, humans and grizzlies at all of those interface points that you mentioned. So roads, you know, food, uh, campgrounds development, things like that. And of course, livestock, you know, here in Bozeman, just a couple of days ago, we had a really popular local trail shut down for a few days because of, or actually, I don't know what kind of bear it was, may well been a black bear, but a bear, um, bit a camper after that bear got its paws on some human food. So, you know, clearly there's still some work to be done in that space. Is that fair to say?

Brooke Shifrin (20:43):

Definitely. I think as long as grizzly bears and people are living in the same places, there are going to be challenges like that. Um, it's not easy to live alongside an animal like that. And, um, you know, grizzly bears are, are navigating an entirely different context than they were when they occupied these landscapes before the arrival of Europeans. And so, uh, there's just so many opportunities for grizzly bears to get into trouble with people. And, uh, we just, don't, it's, it's, it's hard to keep up with that demand.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (21:33):

Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. So talk to us a little bit about, um, you know, we've, we've talked about livestock a few times, so what do conflicts look like in that space? And then, you know, what are you doing or folks like you doing to sort of work through that.

Brooke Shifrin (21:50):

So, as grizzly bears and Greater Yellowstone have continued to expand what has happened is, you know, grizzly bears are in public lands where the predominant use is livestock grazing. And so, you know, naturally a grizzly bear. As I mentioned, there, they're super opportunistic, they're adaptable, they're kind of like giant raccoons. Like they're gonna find the best food source in the place that they are. And, um, it's not surprising that what that means is that we have these incidences of grizzly bears preying on livestock. And, um, the super unfortunate reality is that it doesn't take many losses of cattle or sheep, um, to really have a huge negative impact on a livestock producer. And so, um, trying to prevent and reduce those conflicts is really important, both in terms of keeping grizzly bears out of trouble, because if they get into trouble enough, that usually means the bear ends up euthanized or, um, or relocated. And oftentimes they find themselves in conflict in a new place. And it's important to prevent these conflicts because we want these, um, working ranches to remain viable, working, uh, ranch lands in these landscapes between the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, sort of at the periphery of the ecosystem are, um, really important for connecting habitat in this place to other ecosystems in the north and west. And so, you know, it's, it's really important to keep that open space open and working ranches provide important wildlife habitat. And so, you know, equally important in terms of preventing conflicts is keeping these operations viable,

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (23:52):

Right, because presumably if you had a working ranch become not viable, that land could be sold and turned into a development or something like that. Right. And that's, that's a much bigger barrier than for, for wildlife. You just said something really interesting about, you know, connecting habitats. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Because I know one, you know, one term that comes up a lot is population or population segments and, you know, help us understand what it means to have populations connected.

Brooke Shifrin (24:19):

Yeah. So right now the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem population of grizzly bears is isolated from any other grizzly bear population in the lower 48. Um, and that's not an, from a genetic perspective, a lot of times, a lot of times the, um, the conclusion or the natural conclusion is like they need other genetics to remain healthy and viable over time.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (24:49):

You don't want a population inbreeding.

Brooke Shifrin (24:51):

You don't want them inbreeding.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (24:53):

You don't want cousins.

Brooke Shifrin (24:54):

It's too many cousins. Yeah. Right. Um, and that is true, but it's, it's probably not the genetic depression is what it's called is probably not an issue for Greater Yellowstone grizzly bears for quite some time. Like it would take a long time for that to really play out in a negative way. Um, however, we also know that when populations of animals are connected and animals can disperse to habitat, um, in other places, there are so much more resilient to anything that might change over time. So with climate change, we're seeing, um, animals having to, you know, shift their range. They're having to move more to find food sources. Um, so just connected landscapes are important for wildlife to be resilient, to changing conditions over time to disease outbreaks, um, to all the things that might, you know, impact a wildlife population. Um, and so really from a, a longterm perspective, that's why we want to see these populations connected. We want to see, you know, really one grizzly bear population that is intermingling.

Brooke Shifrin (26:14):

Right. Okay. So it's not as much about access to genetic diversity though. That would be great. Is it is about just individual barriers, having access to more resources by being able to move more freely across the landscape.

Brooke Shifrin (26:26):

Yeah. I think that's a good way to put it.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (26:28):

That's really fascinating. So what, what would it take to have, um, you know, the Yellowstone population be connected with, let's say like a population up in the Northern Rockies or up near northwestern Montana.

Brooke Shifrin (26:40):

Yeah. I mean, I think really ultimately bears grizzly bears are not going to, and when we say connected, what we mean really is grizzly bears living in these landscapes between these core ecosystems, um, and reproducing and, you know, really successfully existing in those places. And for that to happen, grizzly bears and people have to be able to live together. And these are, these, these connective landscapes in particular are places where, um, there's so much potential for conflict. And so, um, I really think for grizzly bears to be successful over the long run, they're going to have to, you know, have grizzly bears are going to have to stay out of trouble with people. And that's really our job.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (27:40):

Right.

Brooke Shifrin (27:40):

To ensure that that happens as

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (27:42):

We can't just go ask a grizzly bear to stay out of trouble. Yeah. Hey, could you stop eating from the trash?

Brooke Shifrin (27:49):

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (27:50):

So connectivity, isn't so much about, let's say like a Yellowstone grizzly being able to walk to Glacier is it is about there being grizzly sort of at the steps between these different big core habitats.

Brooke Shifrin (28:02):

Exactly.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (28:03):

That's really helpful to understand.

Brooke Shifrin (28:05):

Yeah. It's not about just one bear being able to make that walk from Yellowstone to Glacier.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (28:10):

Connecting the dots.

Brooke Shifrin (28:12):

Yep. Exactly.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (28:13):

Sure. So, you know, what are some ways we can help grizzlies stay out of trouble?

Brooke Shifrin (28:18):

I think the thing that comes to mind there is really, um, I sort of see my role in helping grizzly bears stay out of trouble is like working with people, the people that, um, have to navigate the challenges of living alongside grizzly bears, livestock producers, um, you know, outfitters, hunters, recreation is all the reasons why people live and use this landscape though. All of those things come into conflict with grizzly bears at one point or another. And, um, I really think it's our job as conservationists to, to try to prevent those conflicts. And what that means is, um, you know, building relationships with people, understanding what is going on in these places. It's really easy to just sit from the side and say like, hey, you need to do X, Y, and Z to prevent conflicts, um, without actually understanding just how complex some of these challenges really are. Um, and so I think for grizzly bears to be successful, we need a lot of people committed to working with each other and building trust and understanding where one another is coming from and figuring out how to those, these really complex challenges, especially with livestock conflict. Cause there's really not, there's often not silver bullet solutions. I would like to think that there are, but there aren't. Yeah.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (29:54):

So like on the ground in a campground say, you know, I know that one thing that GYC has worked on is helping install, you know, bear proof bins for campers to store their food in. So, you know, that does feel a little bit more like a, maybe not a silver bullet, but like a really concrete, tangible thing, you know, that we can do on the ground. Are there other, other things like that?

Brooke Shifrin (30:14):

Yeah, definitely. That's a great example. And that, that makes me think back to your previous question that, um, just building partnerships, because all of these things take resources and, um, you know, there's kind of an, an infinite need for this kind of work and not enough resources to make it all happen. Um, and so when people build partnerships more gets done, um, but yeah, bear bins, electric fencing is a great way to secure beehives and apple trees and, um, pig pens and chicken coops, all the things that might entice a grizzly bear, who's curious, um, and looking for food. Bear spray. Um, we we've seen now for quite a few years in a row, every fall, grizzly bears, you know, grizzly bears end up in these encounter incidences with hunters and often times the outcome is bad for both the hunter and the grizzly bear. And, um, so, you know, education around how to effectively use bear spray and training because it's so not easy to actually use bear spray in the moment.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (31:34):

Yeah.

Brooke Shifrin (31:36):

So, those, those things are all like, really tangible things that we know help prevent conflicts.

Brooke Shifrin (31:44):

How does spraying a grizzly bear with fire pepper spray protect a grizzly bear?

Brooke Shifrin (31:52):

That's a great question. Well, um, there's a few scenarios that come to mind. Let's say somebody has a gun on their hip instead of bear spray and a grizzly bear charges. They shoot the grizzly bear. Um, either that leads to a dead bear or that leads to a really upset bear that then, um, continues to attack the person. And then that bear will probably be removed from the population. And so it's just, um, you know, if you think about really the best analogy I can think of is like a bouncing ball, like a small soccer ball, like bouncing towards you. That's about the, of target you have to hit if you were shooting with a gun and wouldn't you so much rather like spray that with a blast of aerosol that spreads out, then try to shoot it with a gun?

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (32:50):

That is a really helpful visual. That is, um, yeah, I would certainly rather, I would certainly rather have some bear spray if I was getting attacked by a soccer ball that's for sure. So, you know, what are some other things that people can do on a more individual level? Like let's say somebody who's going to come up to the Greater Yellowstone and visit us, um, what are some things that people could do on an individual level to both stay safe themselves and just help make sure that bears are protected?

Brooke Shifrin (33:17):

Yeah. Great question. Well, I think, um, clean up after yourself, like if grizzly bears get a hold of human food, they are going to learn that that is a really awesome food source. They're gonna want to spend more time around places with people and places with those kinds of resources. And that often leads to bears that become dangerous to people and they have to be removed. Um, and so if you can always keep your food and garbage, um, you know, secure in your car or in a bear resistant bin, um, storage locker, um, pack out your trash. Like there's so many things that people can do to help bears out. And, um, they're really quite simple and they really just boil down to how you should operate anyways.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (34:16):

It sounds like the way that we keep bear safe and people safe is essentially the same list of activities. Right?

Brooke Shifrin (34:22):

Totally. Yeah.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (34:24):

Well, that's convenient. That's great. So we get so many questions, you know, being a conservation organization, operating in a place like Greater Yellowstone, where we do have grizzlies, we get a lot of questions about grizzlies and bears in general. And I am going to run through some of them with you because I'm really curious to hear what your answers are for some of our frequently asked questions that we get from community members, not too many curve balls, I hope. Um, one of the most basic questions we get is just how do you tell the difference between a grizzly bear and a black bear? Because we have both, uh, living and thriving in this ecosystem. So what is the difference?

Brooke Shifrin (35:07):

Yeah, well, grizzly bears are typically a lot larger and typically more aggressive than black bears. Um, the most distinctive feature is the big meaty hump on our grizzly bears back that differentiates them from a black bear. You definitely can't use coat color to determine the difference. There's such thing as brown, black bears, um, grizzly bears will have a more sort of concave dished nose, whereas black bears have a straighter nose profile. Um, black bears typically have like kind of big perky ears that are kind of sweet, like a dog and grizzly bears have like cute little rounded tufted ears. Um, and then their claws, if you're looking at their tracks, grizzly bears have much longer curved claws. Whereas black bears claws are a lot shorter and a little bit straighter. Um, but that all that said it can be so difficult to actually differentiate them if they're really far away. And, um, you can't see very well.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (36:18):

I feel like I already know the answer to this question because of something you said earlier about grizzlies being omnivores, but, um, I've heard that grizzly bears like to eat moths. Is that true?

Brooke Shifrin (36:29):

That is true. Yeah. Army cutworm moths.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (36:31):

Oh, a specific moth?

Brooke Shifrin (36:34):

A specific, very specific moth that actually migrates from the, from farm fields in the Midwest to the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem in the late summer and fall and occupies these, um, big fields of rock, um, on high elevation mountain peaks. Um, and so grizzly bears will climb up, climb up to these rocks and just turn over rocks and just gorge themselves on moths. Um, and they're like a really high calorie, high nutrient food for grizzly bears in like a pretty small window of the year. And there's like, you know, you can kind of name off the places and the GYE where this happens and where grizzly bears go. And you might see some of these places you might see like 40 or 50 grizzly bears, really in one small rock field, all eating moths together.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (37:35):

So that's sort of our high alpine version of pictures you see of bears up in Alaska, all crammed into it and salmon.

Brooke Shifrin (37:44):

Yeah.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (37:44):

We just have the moth version. That's a little less romantic, but probably more interesting. Very cool. Another question we hear not infrequently is if bear bells work, you know, you can buy them at outdoor stores and attach them to your backpack or walking stick, and then you can jingle jangle your way up a trail. I've heard some people pejoratively call those dinner bells. What's your take on bear bells?

Brooke Shifrin (38:07):

Yeah, well, um, it depends on who you ask my take on bear bells is, um, they're probably not a dinner bill. It's probably just more that they're not all that effective. Um, you could probably think of bear bells kind of like, uh, you know, babbling brook or some rustling leaves or some other like white noise that is, um, so insignificant that a grizzly bear just wouldn't even notice it. And so they're just not all that effective at alerting a bear of your presence or your, um, your approach on a trail. And so maybe don't rely on bear bells. I recently read an article about yodeling. Maybe that's scary to bears.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (38:57):

I had no idea yodeling was so potentially functional, but that's.

Brooke Shifrin (39:00):

But there's a great use for yodeling.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (39:02):

Um, are there any myths about grizzlies that you would like to dispel?

Brooke Shifrin (39:07):

Yeah. Where to begin? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think one thing that we hear a lot, um, you know, in the places we work around Greater Yellowstone is that Yellowstone grizzly bears are more aggressive toward people than other grizzly bears. Um, that they're, that they're not afraid of people that they're, you know, out to get people that they're, you know, they have sort of a predatory instinct when it comes to people and that's simply not true. Um, for the most part, grizzly bears are afraid of people and would really like to just avoid any sort of encounter. And more often than not when, um, a bad encounter happens between a grizzly bear and a person it's, it's, there's a reason there's a grizzly bear is defending something, defending their cubs, defending a food source, they feel threatened, um, and they're just protecting themselves. And so this idea that, that, and I think we see this with a lot of predators species that, that these animals are out to get us is, um, a myth worth busting,

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (40:32):

Well said.

Brooke Shifrin (40:32):

Thank you.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (40:33):

Yeah. Well said. Brooke, you have a really compelling life story and a really compelling journey of how you got into this work. Um, obviously everybody's story is different, but do you have any advice for young folks who might be interested in getting into wildlife biology or ecology or working with bears or other animals like them?

Brooke Shifrin (40:55):

Yeah, I mean, I think there's so much value in spending time out in the field and doing the sort of hands on research projects, collecting data familiarizing with whatever species you're interested in and what their habitat is like and what their needs are. And, um, just really getting that kind of hands-on, um, firsthand experience. I think that time spent in the field makes for the best biologists. Um, and then the other I've learned is like, you know, I spent all this time studying grizzly bears and being just like a full blown geeky scientist. And then I got involved in nonprofit conservation and I realized that like a lot of those skills were great, but, um, you kind of need to know how to work with people and you kinda need to know how to like make compelling arguments and convince people and build relationships and connections with people and, um, be an advocate for the species and understand how, how to apply everything, you know, about that animal into actual policy that can make a difference. And so from that perspective, I feel like the more, um, diversity of experiences you can gain the better, um, you know, understanding how to really show up as like a good human, um, when working with other people who see the world very differently from you is like the best way to make progress, um, around these conservation goals. And so I think that just comes with spending a lot of time in a lot of different kinds of scenarios and experiences.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (42:53):

That's great. Yeah. That's really wonderful. Thanks for sharing that. Do you have any fun facts about grizzly bears?

Brooke Shifrin (43:01):

So many. Um, I think my favorite fun fact, which it's going to come off as like really geeky, but I'm a geek, so we'll just go with it. Um, grizzly bears, well, grizzly bears are highly promiscuous.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (43:18):

Oh!

Brooke Shifrin (43:18):

That part's not geeky, but, but that is fun fact. And, um, grizzly bears have this thing called delayed implantation, which basically means that they breed in the summer spring into summer. Um, it isn't until like many, many, many days after they breed. So like in the fall late fall, when they actually go into their dens for the winter that the embryo may or may not actually implant in the uterus and, um, turn into a bear cub. And so in that, whether or not that happens totally depends on how much body fat the mama bear has on her going into the den. And so I think it's like, you know, at least most, um, studies have shown that bears have to have like at least 20% body fat going into hibernation for implantation of an embryo to actually occur. And then, um, one single litter of grizzly bears could have multiple different sires. So like you could have a litter of three grizzly bear cubs each with different fathers going back to the promiscuous.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (44:35):

So there's like a biological check to make sure the bear is really fully ready to be pregnant.

Brooke Shifrin (44:41):

Totally.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (44:42):

Before her body will let her be actually pregnant, even if she's already bred. Fascinating. And then you have a litter full of half siblings.

Brooke Shifrin (44:49):

Yes.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (44:50):

That is amazing.

Brooke Shifrin (44:51):

Pretty amazing.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (44:52):

That's a really fun fact. Yeah. So Brooke, you clearly have a lot of love for this particular animal. Why are grizzly bears so awesome?

Brooke Shifrin (45:00):

I have a lot of thoughts on that. Um, well, I mean, I think just the well caveat, this is all my personal opinion, but I feel like grizzly bears are such a remarkably intelligent species and they're so individualistic. Like every bear has a different personality, different way of being in the world. And there's like, there's actually a lot of similarities to people. I think, um, grizzly bears are, you know, really flexible and adaptive and resilient. And, um, and I think as humans, like living alongside grizzly bears, challenges us to like, um, you know, maybe step off our pedestal and figure out how to like share. Um, so I just really like the, I like that the, I like the way, the ways in which grizzly bears kind of forced me to think about my place in the world. And, um, I think that there is so much to learn from, um, such a intelligent species that plays such an important role, um, in every place that they show up. Um, so that they're fricking cool.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (46:31):

Yeah. That's beautiful. Have you ever had a bear encounter?

Brooke Shifrin (46:35):

Many.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (46:36):

Oh, can we hear about one of them?

Brooke Shifrin (46:40):

Yeah. You know, I think for me, I've been lucky in that all of my bear encounters have been really positive and, you know, fully recognize that there's a lot of people that can't say that and have had really negative encounters with grizzly bears. And, um, I think probably, I think probably my, um, most memorable encounter was in Yellowstone national park. Um, I was doing field work for my graduate research project had been hiking for hours upon hours. And, um, it had been quiet for a while. I was with a crew of people and, um, just out of nowhere, one of fellow crew members just like grabbed my arm and started shaking my arm and we both stopped and I had no idea what he was referring to. And I looked up and there was this like stunningly, beautiful grizzly bear, walking straight towards us. And she was literally just, you know, in passing, we were in passing, um, and we sort of all stopped and looked at each other and, um, we kind of formed a line and we all just like, without even communicating, grabbed our bear spray and pulled it out and like had it ready, but just stood there quietly. Um, and she just sort of walked past, got, got really close to us, but just like continued on her way. Um, and so we basically got to just stand there and watch this amazing animal walk on by, and it was pretty cool.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (48:20):

That's incredible. What a story. So do you have any conservation heroes you look up to?

Brooke Shifrin (48:28):

Yeah, it's going to sound really cheesy, but my mom.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (48:31):

That's wonderful.

Brooke Shifrin (48:32):

Yeah. And my mom, my mom's a scientist. She doesn't actually work in sort of the conservation application space. She does research. She, um, she spent a large part of her career working for the US Forest Service as an ecologist. Um, and so in that space, she was sort of bridging that gap between science and conservation. Um, and in the latter part of her career, she's shifted more towards just pure science. Um, but I've always been really inspired by my mom's curiosity about, um, the world and nature. And I got to spend a lot of time as a toddler, like getting lugged around on my mom's back while she did field work for her PhD. Um, and so just got exposed to that, that curiosity and like love for understanding the world in which we inhabit from a really young age. And, um, I think that really sparked that love for protecting all these amazing things about all these amazing places that we get to live in for me.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (49:50):

So when you were a kid and you requested that your dolls and your dollhouse get replaced with Grizzlies and wolves, was she pretty receptive to that?

Brooke Shifrin (50:00):

Pretty quickly threw out the dolls

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (50:05):

That's wonderful. Brooke, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us today. It was so lovely to talk to you. I learned so much and next time I see a bunch of grizzlies pulling rocks over, I'm going to know that they're just snacking on moths.

Brooke Shifrin (50:19):

Yeah. Nice. Well, thanks for letting me sit here and geek out with you.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (50:23):

Absolutely, always welcome, uh, for a little geek fest. Thanks again, Brooke.

Brooke Shifrin (50:28):

Thank you.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (50:29):

Well, I don't know about you, but I just learned a lot about grizzly bears. We are so lucky to have these resourceful, surprisingly promiscuous, and epically awesome animals here in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. And we're so lucky to have Brooke on our wildlife team. She's pretty awesome as well. The Greater Yellowstone Coalition is dedicated to seeing grizzly bears thrive on the landscape by reducing conflicts with people securing core habitat, ensuring connectivity, advocating for policies and much, much more. If you want to stay up to date on grizzly bear conservation, you can join our list of advocates via the link in the show notes. There's also link to make a donation to the Greater Yellowstone Coalition's of wildlife conservation work, if you'd like to give a gift to grizzly bears, if you'd like to directly support the podcast, please consider subscribing to Voices of Greater Yellowstone on your podcast platform and leaving a review. If your platform allows it, we appreciate the love and we can't wait to continue sharing stories with you. Until then.