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Chris Colligan (00:05):

You know, in a lot of ways, it's the same way that people thought to protect these lands, whether that's a Wilderness designation or a national park designation, you know, those are like legacy events that have changed the GYE and wildlife crossings are I think, very similar. They're going to outlive us and benefit future generations so that they see that we had the foresight to protect this place.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (00:29):

Hey there, it's Kristin, your host. And I've got a question for you. Why did the chicken cross the road? Probably to get to the other side, but what exactly is on the other side that makes it so enticing? We may never know exactly why the chicken crossed the road, but on this episode of Voices of Greater Yellowstone, we're going to dive into wildlife migration and movement across Wyoming's Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem and learn how and why elk mule, deer, pronghorn, grizzly bears, and many more travel across the landscape. Compared to the chicken we have a much better idea of why these species are crossing roadways. And luckily for these animals, there are projects in the works that make it safer for both wildlife and humans to travel this landscape. The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is an amazing region full of mountain ranges, sage brush valleys, and countless wildlife species with Yellowstone and Grand Teton National Parks at its core. The ecosystem spans 20 million acres across parts of Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming. If you live here or have visited, you know, just how special this place is. In today's episode, we chat with the Greater Yellowstone Coalitions wildlife program coordinator, Chris Colligan about wildlife movement and the work he's doing to preserve movement corridors and reduce wildlife vehicle collisions in Wyoming. The Greater Yellowstone Coalition is a conservation nonprofit dedicated to working with all people to protect the lands, waters, and wildlife of the remarkable Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Chris has worked on numerous campaigns to secure funding for wildlife crossings in Wyoming and collaborates with partners on a variety of wildlife issues throughout the ecosystem. Simply put, Chris is one of the go-to people for discussing wildlife movement and the future of wildlife crossings in Greater Yellowstone. During our conversation, we'll cover what wildlife crossings actually are, how locations are selected, and what kind of animals use them. We'll wrap up by asking Chris some listener questions submitted by people like you. As a bonus, we'll get to hear Chris do eight stunning impersonation of the Greater Yellowstone animal he would be if he had to choose one, it is truly worth the wait. Okay, let's jump in and learn about wildlife movement and crossings. We promise to try and keep the chicken crossing jokes to a minimum.

Chris Colligan (02:51):

My name is Chris Colligan. I'm the wildlife coordinator for Greater Yellowstone Coalition and I'm based out of Jackson, Wyoming.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (02:57):

Wonderful. And what does a wildlife coordinator do?

Chris Colligan (03:02):

Coordinate wildlife? You know, my, my position in the role has been to coordinate all of our wildlife programs and priorities that, that we address through our strategic plan and our annual plan. That's working with our staff in three states and working with wildlife decision-makers in each of these areas to get good wildlife policies and projects on the ground.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (03:29):

That's great. It certainly sounds like a lot of work to do all that facilitation across state borders and programs. And so Chris, you definitely have love and admiration for Greater Yellowstone's animals. Can you trace your decision to have a career centered on wildlife back to any kind of defining moment?

Chris Colligan (03:48):

I don't know about a single defining moment. I think when I was growing up, wildlife was really central to me growing up in, in Michigan where we were very close to the land that my family did a lot of recreation on and hunting and fishing and a lot of outdoor pursuits back there. And so that created a passion for wildlife.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (04:16):

So Chris, how did you come to work on wildlife issues in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem specifically?

Chris Colligan (04:21):

Yeah, so like many people here in the ecosystem I'm I was a visitor first, right. I came here to visit and was here for recreational purposes initially and found a love for the wildlife that was here. Realizing that all of, some of the thorniest issues that face wildlife and maintaining wildlife populations anywhere in North America occur right here. And getting involved in that started for me working for the Wyoming Game and Fish Department here in Jackson, Wyoming starting in 2004. I spent four years working on brucellosis elk feed ground issues. In particular I was on involved in the test and slaughter project for elk where elk were lethally removed in response to brucellosis and seeing those types of, of really controversial, difficult projects firsthand drove me to have a passion to work on making things better for wildlife and the ecosystem.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (05:30):

And how long have you been with GYC?

Chris Colligan (05:33):

I've been with GYC for 13 years now.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (05:35):

So that's a good long chunk of time to be working with Greater Yellowstone Coalition. Do you have a favorite wildlife win during those are from those 13 years? Anything that rises to the top?

Chris Colligan (05:47):

Yeah, I think we've had, we've had a lot of wins, but I think the thing that rises to the top for me has been the work that we're doing on wildlife crossings right now, the way we have become a partner with agencies to get really good things done on the ground, that benefit wildlife and, and with wildlife crossings. Some of that has been luckily right here in my backyard and Jackson Hole, where we helped raise $10 million through a special purpose excise tax to fund wildlife crossings on our highways and in Teton County.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (06:19):

Well, that's great. I'm so happy to hear that that is one of your favorite wins because that's definitely something that we're going to talk a lot about today is wildlife crossings and folks are really curious to know more. So I'm really glad that we have you here to discuss that. What are we talking about when we say wildlife crossing? So what, you know, when you say that phrase, what is that? Is it just the yellow signs that say, you know, deer xing ahead or what's a wildlife crossing, it's just the most basic level?

Chris Colligan (06:47):

Yeah. So when I'm saying wildlife crossing, I'm talking about structures as a series, a system of structures, whether that's tunnels underneath the highway or bridges over the highway, along with a wildlife fencing to funnel animals, to those structures. That's what I'm talking about wildlife crossings that's what I mean. But I think in more general terms, it's how do we get animals safely from point a to point B to important habitats that they need to continue their life cycle or for particular parts of their life cycle, like wildlife migrations to winter range, for example, you know, there's all sorts of tools at our disposal that range in effectiveness on how to do that, how to get animals safely from point a to point B ranging from those yellow crossing signs that you mentioned, which are not very effective to wildlife crossings, which are, can be up to 90% effective at protecting wildlife, preventing mortalities and collision. And then there's a range of things that we can do in between there. And I think all of those tools are, should be at our disposal because not every, not every roadway is conducive to building structures and fencing. There's a challenge with every site that that we have to take into account as we come up with these mitigation tools.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (08:08):

Absolutely. So generally speaking, you know, for the purposes of this conversation, we're talking about actual infrastructure projects, bridges, passageways, things like that. So, Chris, what kind of animals are actually using wildlife crossings? Like who are these structures designed for?

Chris Colligan (08:25):

And Kristen, I know you want me to give you a straightforward list, but the biologist in me will answer, it depends. So, you know, we build structures for in particular accommodating, certain kinds of wildlife. And so we know from the literature and the research has occurred some animals like different kinds of structures. And, you know, here in Wyoming in particular, the classic example is down at Trapper's Point. So about 80% of the pronghorn use the overpass structures and, you know, deer use that same migration corridor as well, but 80% of the deer use underpass structures. So deer prefer the underpass structure and pronghorn prefer the overpass. And that's how I called all due to like the, the life adaptations that these animals have, right. Pronghorn have these eyes that are made for, you know, just this great visual vision that they have you know, peripheral vision, long distance. They don't like going through a tunnel. Big horn sheep are the same way. Sometimes it's, there's disparity between the the sex of animals like between grizzly bears, males and females, which they prefer or wolverines. We know that they don't like some kinds of underpasses or overpasses and, you know, sorry, sorry I complicated that a little bit more, but there's a lot of variables that go into which animals like what structure. The short answer is all wildlife will use wildlife crossings. If we build it, they will come. But we have to build it in the way that accommodates the species in particular that need it in an area. Here in Teton County where I'm based out of, you know, we're mostly trying to build crossing structures big enough for moose. And if we can build them big enough for moose, that means that most everything else will use it, right. That's at least a 15 foot high structure. Under it, for an underpass. You don't have to have any options for overpasses because of the landscape. And, you know, it's not as easy to build overpasses and we don't have the species that demand it necessarily in some of these places. So you, of course it depends if you're talking to a biologist.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (10:46):

Just broadly speaking, what does wildlife movement look like in Wyoming? You know, who's on the move and where are they going?

Chris Colligan (10:55):

Yeah. So we have all sorts of different movements for different needs of wildlife, right? And, and all species are different and some species have different thresholds of what they will allow, you know, when they will abandon that movement. And so, you know, could be daily movements. So if you think about animals, maybe in your backyard that go from, you know, come into to a stream to get water every day or come to a, an apple tree or something like that, you know, to feed on a daily basis. So it could be a daily movement across the highway, or it could be a a long distance movement that is, you know, here in Wyoming, we have intact migrations, which is really special in the West. And, and we do in, in, in the other states, the GYE as well. And that those could be, you know, 150, 200 mile movements of animals trying to get from their summer range to their winter range, where they only cross that highway one, twice a year. So each roadway is different in how it affects wildlife seasonally and for each species.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (12:03):

Why do animals need to move between a summer range and a winter range? What, what kind of needs do they have that mean that they have to move between different habitats?

Chris Colligan (12:14):

Well, it's a way for them to, to withstand our harsh climates here in the west. And so it's a way for them to maximize their ability to feed and have the maximum output for reproductive capacity, that the term here in Wyoming, there's been tons of research on. And thank the Wyoming Migration Initiative, University of Wyoming, Dr. Matt Kaufmann for coining these terms around "surfing the green wave." And that's, you know, maximize the way that they can utilize the resources that are available to them. And so, you know, leaving winter range in the spring, animals, deer, elk, pronghorn, and moose, to some extent, will follow that green up from the low elevations to the higher elevations. And then in the summertime, they maximize their use of that green lush, alpine or higher elevation areas. And then have the opposites occur in the fall. As you know, snow comes into the high country and the forage conditions decrease the animals, move down country into their winter range areas.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (13:29):

Gotcha. Okay. No, that's, that's really interesting, you know, it's snowing here in Bozeman today, but yesterday, if I looked out my window, it was still bare ground here down in Gallatin Valley. But up in the mountains, there's been snow. So you can imagine that an animal that's been summering up in the mountains and now is dealing with snow, is going to try to seek lower elevations. So is that kind of the gist of it?

Chris Colligan (13:53):

It is. You know, the fun thing with wildlife is there's always exceptions to that, right? So we also have a herd, a really important iconic herd of big horn sheep here in Grand Teton National Park that winners out at 10,000 feet all winter, and just withstands that harsh environment. And, you know gnaws on lichen basically to survive through the winter on windswept ridges. And so, yeah, there's always exceptions. And so we try, as we're thinking about our highways and wildlife, we try to figure out how to accommodate and maximize the benefits to, you know, broad array of wildlife. Often you hear us talk about the large charismatic animals and that in part is because they have a higher threat to humans. Somebody hits a moose on a highway, it causes a lot more damage, both bodily and vehicle damage. And so that, you know, we will try, tend to build for the, the largest to accommodate all.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (14:51):

Yeah. Oh, that's a really interesting concept. You know, when I was 14 and a half and I had my learner's permit the very first day I went out driving with my mom in the passenger seat. I ran over a squirrel and cried the whole way home, but it didn't do any damage to the car just damaged me emotionally. And then, you know, in high school, I growing up in the Flathead Valley here in Montana. I hit two deer and that was a very different story, very different story.

Chris Colligan (15:22):

So I have been accused of, and this is, you know, this is through a good relationship that we have with Wyoming Department of Transportation, but in some of the public or some of the meetings that we're involved in I've had engineers at WYDOT say, "Chris you just want us to build those squirrel ledges." And we do, and we actually successfully did that. But we can talk more about squirrel ledges later. I unfortunately hit a deer on my way back to, to Jackson. It was the night before Thanksgiving in the middle of the night, about two o'clock in the morning on the Wind River Indian Reservation, just outside of Dubois. And you know, in subfreezing temperatures was stranded on the side of the highway and had to call my wife who had a six month old child. She was, you know, I was trying to get home to for Thanksgiving that she had to come out and pick me up, you know, in the middle of the night, middle, the middle of nowhere, Wyoming. And so yeah, I have experienced very firsthand how dangerous you know, luckily there was no injuries there, but except for, for the deer, but there was a, you know, kind of firsthand I've had those experiences too, of hitting animals on the roads.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (16:37):

Yeah, no, it's a very vulnerable position to be in to be sure. So which brings up a really good point that wildlife crossings you know, as much as they are to preserve the ability of animals to move between habitats and move freely across the landscape also provide a human benefit because we certainly don't want to be having collisions with wildlife on our roadways either.

Chris Colligan (16:58):

Yeah. And we can account for that in cost benefit analysis. And so, you know, on average, we can, we can figure out and researchers there at Western Transportation Institute in Bozeman have figured out what that cost it applies to. And so it ends up being roughly $40,000 on average, if somebody hits a moose and you know, roughly $10,000 annually or on average for each individual deer that's hit and, well, you know, my deer that I hit only cost me, I think about $2,000 worth of damage to our vehicle. If you take that and extrapolate it across the country for all the collisions that are occurring, it only takes one fatality to have this disproportionate impact on that average. Right here in Wyoming, we've had in about the last seven years, we've had five human deaths due to wildlife vehicle collisions. And so that drives up the costs substantially now, I mean, emotionally, financially and everything else. But it is certainly a human, you know, human intersection with wildlife that's that's can be really negative for, for humans.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (18:12):

Right? Yeah. Chris, what would it mean for the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem if wildlife had the ability to move freely throughout the region?

Chris Colligan (18:24):

Well, right now the, and what makes Greater Yellowstone really special in my view is that wildlife has that ability, right? We have an intact ecosystem, we have intact migrations and we have wildlife populations that are you have remained robust at, in spite of all of the threats that exist and that's, that didn't happen alone, right? That, that hapen that didn't happen on its own. I should say that that was because of many people before us and conservation and that lived here in the region that saw, had the, had the foresight to protect these places. And so, you know, we, we thank them for all of the efforts to get us to where we're at today, you know, moving forward, we were learning more and more about wildlife movements. And you know, this is a lot of this is due to technology, right? So putting GPS collars on, on animals has taught us just so much about how they interact with our, our human footprint, whether that's our highways or, you know, where our homes are or our recreational impact. And that that technology also is giving us some of the tools to mitigate that and limit the damage so that we can keep things intact. Even as, you know, there will be growth here in the ecosystem. And on highways, we measure that in a, with something called the average annual daily traffic, the AADT, and some of our roadways have in, in excess of 30,000 vehicles a day on them. And on average and that number, you know, we can do to the science that's out there. Now, we can, we can evaluate when there's an impact, a threshold that animals will change their behavior or altogether avoid highways based on how many vehicles a day travel on a roadway. So we're, you know, not that we can solve and fix all of our problems, but I have to be really careful cause I know my own personal biases is to like jump to solutions and try to fix things. And yeah, there are bigger values questions that we should ask about growth in highways and the conflicts that we have about wildlife. But this is a really tangible tool that you know, with, with adequate funding can, can limit some of those threats.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (20:59):

Yeah, so it sounds like the Greater Yellowstone region has this really special thing and that we do still have an intact ecosystem and, but the region is facing a lot of change so it's really worth digging in and protecting that. So, you know, as you're talking, it really just sounds like a no brainer to want to construct ways for animals to safely cross roadways humans don't like crashing into wildlife. And I can't imagine that animals like getting crashed into, so can you help us understand some of the barriers that exist that make it hard to get crossings in place sometimes?

Chris Colligan (21:33):

Yeah. So for starters, crossings and highway infrastructures are really expensive. Yeah. I remember so in part of why I think I relate well and can translate some of this construction world is I spent my summers working through college, working construction and as a, as an operator and a laborer on a crew that did some highway construction. And, you know, at that time I remember the highway improvements, cost a million dollars a mile. Today, you know, the project that we is just wrapping up on, on South 89 outside of Jackson here is about $18 million a mile. And so, you know, we're, we started talking in numbers, which is that just like intangible, right? Like I started throwing around millions of dollars like it's just pocket change, but that is, it is expensive work. A wildlife overpass can, can average somewhere between, you know, one and 3 million, one and a half and $3 million. Wildlife underpass, depending on, you know, all of this depends on the road and the soils and there's so many factors that go into it, they can cost somewhere between a half, a million to one and a half million dollars each, right? So these are expensive structures and and they require high fencing to be really effective. So you can't build them everywhere. And it requires the the landscape, the topography to be able to build them in certain places, you need to have lands that are intact in perpetuity, because these are structures that are meant to service the public for up to 75 years. And so, you know, no transportation department is going to build this structure on a, on a parcel that's going to be developed in the future. So we're looking for public lands generally or permanent conservation easements to make them happen and secure habitat. And there's opposition to the, the view shed impact of putting up high fences there's there's opposition to sometimes in order to have these built, it involves a highway reconstruction project, and there's other elements of that project that people don't agree with. So there's you know, it's not as easy. Everybody wanted wildlife crossings yesterday and for good reason, they take most, most projects that I've been involved in have taken up to a decade to plan and build. And that is for really good reason. This, these are public funds that are going to public roadway that's primary purpose is safety for humans. And so anything that you put into that right away in that corridor has to meet standards that don't impair that safety standard. And that means guardrails. And you, if you build a bridge that is building a new structure, that has an impact on the safety of that roadway, right. And how it's maintained. And so it's a very complex set of issues to navigate, to, to build and construct, get to the point of, you know, we envision wildlife crossings to seeing them built firsthand.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (24:53):

Right. So even though there seems like a great idea and a no-brainer, there's often a lot of complexities happening kind of behind the scenes that people might not be aware of that are just making it a slow process it seems. Is that fair to say?

Chris Colligan (25:05):

It is absolutely fair to say it's it is a, it's a marathon.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (25:10):

Can you share some success stories with us?

Chris Colligan (25:14):

Yeah. So one struck or one project here successful project that I've been involved in that was just let, so the process of, of releasing that the contract to to the contractors is called lighting. And so they put it out for bid and then they let it to this contractor is the the Dry Piney project, which is south of the town of Daniel. It's a small community outside of Pinedale between Pinedale and Big Piney, Wyoming, which is in a really important area for migrating mule deer and winter range for mule deer. And those structures we worked with Wyoming Department of Transportation to raise federal funds and they applied for and received a 14 and a half million dollar grant through what's called the Build Process was a federal grant opportunity and GYC helped raise the local match so that why that would help fund that through federal dollars. And we were able to, through our partners at the Knoblach Family Foundation, the Volgenau Foundation and the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation raised $400,000 for that project that was matched by Wyoming Wildlife and Natural Resource Trust.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (26:28):

That's great. It sounds like a just tremendous collaborative effort, but how cool to be able to see something from just plans to fruition and then actually see wildlife start using it. It certainly seems that Wyoming as a state is leading the way and really a model for you know, collaboration and just the amount of work and planning it takes to get wildlife crossings implemented. So I just kind of a two part question, like, is it fair to say that Wyoming is a national leader in this space? And the second part is, do you think that's replicable by other states in particular, you know, our neighbors, Montana and Idaho, the other states of the GYE and really states across the nation, like how, what is, what makes Wyoming so special in this space and how do you think that could be replicated elsewhere?

Chris Colligan (27:15):

Well, I think, you know, Wyoming became a leader really when the highly visible and successful project had Trapper's Point became so the public became so aware of that. And so that, you know, crossing of, of pronghorn and mule deer at that, on those overpasses and underpasses have, have like graced the pages of National Geographic and the Washington Post and nationally have been had a spotlight on them. And so Wyoming building on that success has been willing to continue to look at how to improve our infrastructure with, with crossings. But it comes back to that leadership and it's, it's not, you know, it's not as easy as you, as we might think as advocates to change an agency that has a very specific mission around getting people from point A to point B as quickly and safely and efficiently as they can, right. To get them to think about other impacts of, of highways. It's not that easy. And, and I don't, I don't want to say like Wyoming so far ahead, and, you know, that's not to cast any kind of blame of the other states, but other states of Montana and I don't particular also have some really successful projects. And I'm, you know, right now working with Idaho, both Idaho Fish and Game and Idaho Department Transportation on a project that Rocky Point, which is a really important project for somewhere between four and 6,000 mule deer that, that, that moved through this particular part of Highway 30 in Southeast Idaho that they're working to protect. And so, you know, other states have their, their wins on these, this work too. But I think Wyoming has just done a really good job of getting ahead of, of what could be a huge opportunity with new federal funds and also prioritizing state funds. So, you know, there's been an effort to like make this more systematic, right, make this a part of systematic part of highway design. And while that might seem really logical, I've worked on a number of wildlife crossing projects, and none of them have ever come to fruition the same way. Like there is not a single script to say, okay, while left crossing advocate, follow this script and you'll get wildlife crossings built. You know, they have all come together in different ways with, with individual champions different funding sources. And a lot of times that's what it takes is that the local district engineers and the local on the ground engineers and why that maintenance technicians and, you know, Game and Fish biologists having those people be really passionate about a project means that we can, we can move it forward somehow. And we'll figure out when we figure out the details, like how are we going to fund it? How are we going to plan it? Where do they need it? Where do these crossings needs to happen? But there isn't a script and there is for in general, there is a script for how you build highways, right? So DOTs have a very specific set of standards that they have to meet, but, you know, they, they have, because it's about human safety, right. And so you know, trying to get something new in there that they aren't used to having to plan isn't just, it's not that simple.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (30:40):

Yeah. I mean, on one hand you can certainly see the appeal of there being some systematic approach to being able to incorporate wildlife crossings and all this. But on the other hand, there is something actually sort of interesting and heartening about each project being tailor made to the community that it's serving because communities are different and habitats are different. And, you know, there probably isn't a one size fits all solution to this. So though there's certainly a lot of work involved in each individual project it's worth doing it right.

Chris Colligan (31:13):

I agree a hundred percent Kristin. And if you could think of like, let's just think of Yellowstone National Park, for example, you know, so many of the visitors that come here to Yellowstone travel on roadways yes, somewhere between 4 and 5 million visitors annually, will, will make that trip. And you know, animals get hit on the road in Yellowstone too, and in Grand Teton National Park, but those are some places that might not ever be a good fit for wildlife crossings. Right. can you imagine driving through some of those iconic landscapes with high fences? And I mean, I think they're beautiful. They feel, make me feel safe when I drive on them, but there's, you know, there's, there are some places that wildlife crossings aren't going to work and there's some places that we can try other things too, that don't include high fences and wildlife structures. You know, there are other tools that are less effective today that might become more effective in the future. There's, there's different animal detection system they're called that that use technology to identify and at alert, motorists of animals on the roadway you know, there's ideas of how we might change fencing so that you can provide a spot that known site where animals can cross without a structure. It's called at grade crossing. There's, you know, the technology in our vehicles, not my vehicle, cause it's made like two decades ago, but technology and vehicles is improving such that, you know, there'll be automatic braking systems with thermal detection of, of obstacles in the road that's going to happen in our lifetimes.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (32:54):

That's really incredible to imagine, but you're right. It doesn't actually seem that far fetched at this point which is actually kind of a great segue into another question I have for you, which is what are you most excited for in the future of this work?

Chris Colligan (33:11):

Well, I think what I'm excited for is seeing at least you know, I said that there's no systematic way to build these crossings, but I think there is a systematic way to plan and prioritize them and prioritize funds. And so here, you know, with Yellowstone, the power of Yellowstone and the power of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, I, I think that we, as an organization can funnel funding and priorities here into this ecosystem to benefit wildlife benefit migrations and benefit the communities around the ecosystem. And so starting to think at that scale, instead of, you know, right now for me, I think about it in my backyard because, you know, you really only effective that effective, I guess, in, in within a range of where you live. But I, I am really excited for GYC and our staff around the ecosystem to start seeing the the benefits the fruits of that labor and putting federal funds in particular on the ground here in ecosystem on these arteries of highways that run in and out of our national park, the same way that the arteries of wildlife migrations move in and out of our national parks.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (34:33):

Absolutely. Which brings up another, another thing I've been thinking about, you know, we've covered a lot of ground so far in this conversation, but if you could sum up the importance of preserving wildlife corridors or maintaining connectivity in just a few sentences, you know, how would you do that? Think about this as like your elevator pitch, you know, hopping into an elevator with someone of influence and they're like, why should I care about this? What's, what's the big deal with preserving connectivity like that? What would you say?

Chris Colligan (35:07):

Well, I think people don't understand connectivity for starters like that, that term gets used and people's eyes kind of glaze over, connectivity what? So I've tried to change how I talk about that. And I it's changed for me becoming a father too. I mean so seeing these places preserved and remaining permeable for wildlife for the next generation and generations beyond is what wildlife crossings can allow us to the impact that we can have. You know, what other tool do we have that, you know, you can put money into that directly prevents mortality of animals. It can make our highways safer for your kids and your families, and it lasts 75 years, you know, more it's going to outlast me for certain. So it's, you know, it's really thinking about legacy in a lot of ways of our of our work and of of our communities and how we interact with wildlife in the future. It's kind of, you know, kind of maybe as a grandiose or I'm thinking of it, think too highly of work, but you know, a lot of ways, it's the same way that people thought to protect these lands, whether that's a Wilderness designation or a national park designation, you know, those are like legacy events that have changed the GYE and wildlife crossings are I think, very similar. They're gonna outlive us and benefit future generations so that they see that we had the foresight to protect this place.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (36:49):

Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you for that. We're gonna switch gears a little bit. I'm gonna ask a couple of fun questions of you for starters, who is your conservation hero?

Chris Colligan (37:06):

I have a lot of conservation heroes you know, and it changes from day to day, but I'm just going to mention a really dear friend of mine here who's Vance Carruth and he started a lot of the efforts here on wildlife crossings at Teton County as just a citizen advocate and, you know, showing up and being vocal and organizing. And he's been there for me and difficult times. And and unfortunately he's, he's he's moving away from the ecosystem where we're gonna just sorely miss him. But I know that some of the crossings that will be built on the highway near his home that will continue to benefit things that he really cared about there.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (37:52):

Hopefully he's migrating somewhere warm.

Chris Colligan (37:54):

He'll be back though. I know he's not gonna leave us. He'll be back to visit and see these things once they're built.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (38:02):

Really hard hitting question for you. If you could be any animal in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, what would you be?

Chris Colligan (38:12):

So I, when we put our kids to bed at night, something that we do is we like make all the animal noises and you know, this kind of fun as biologists thinking about like, you can talk to animals. But my critter would be, I think it'd be a raven and that's because I have a good raven call

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (38:32):

Can we get a sample that?

Chris Colligan (38:36):

Sure can not. Let me try with about throwing my blowing my voice out. CAW CAW CAW!

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (38:46):

That's startlingly convincing!

Chris Colligan (38:51):

So yeah, I'd be a raven.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (38:52):

You know what I think you're halfway there. Beautiful. Thank you. That was, that was really wonderful. We have some listener questions. Now people are really curious about wildlife crossings. I'm really curious about your work. So we're going to dive right into that. So first up we have a question from Katie, from Ohio who wonders, what animal migrates, the furthest distance within Greater Yellowstone?

Chris Colligan (39:19):

It's a trick question. So you know, our, our passerines probably migrate the furthest and we don't think about them that much. So, you know, we think about animals. We're talking about, if you start talking about songbirds, we have neotropical migrants, which it's really amazing that that happens if you think about it. But from a, a land mammal perspective here in the Greater Yellowstone, I think the longest recorded migration has been in a mule deer, which migrated from near Rock Springs, Wyoming in the winter time up through, through Jackson area, through Pinedale, through through Grand Teton, on to Island Park in Idaho, which I believe I don't have the numbers in front of me, I think is about 240, 250 miles. I think we have the very famous path of the pronghorn, which is a similar migration from Grand Teton National Park down to the, the little Colorado Desert in the Rock Springs area, annual migration of 300 to 400 animals, which is really incredible.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (40:28):

That is really incredible. The distance hikers of Yellowstone. I love it. Next question for you, Tyler from Colorado wonders, how long does it take for animals to start using wildlife crossings?

Chris Colligan (40:43):

So what's amazing to me is that they use them almost immediately if you build them in the right places. And I've been surprised by some of the, some of the areas that we've planned crossings had structures already there, you know, before the reconstruction, they were just inefficient or too small or not really built with wildlife in mind. And I've seen, witnessed, and we documented with, with remote cameras, animals use just undersized tiny structures that were not built to accommodate wildlife, but they're kind of forced to, because of the traffic and amount of disturbance that happens on highways. The data out there that I'm aware of and this, most of this research has come from Canada and the Flathead from the researchers at, at Western Transportation Institute. So Tony Clevenger up in, in Canada and Marcel out in Western Montana and the, over the time, those structures only improve in their effectiveness for animals that they get more use as they're, you know, longer on the landscape. And whether that's a, a learned behavior that's, you know, taught to the next generations of wildlife, if you think of it that way, or if it's you know, behavioral adaptation because of animal trails and scent and use that just builds over time, or is it a behavioral reaction just because their, their mortality is not occurring. So those are the animals that live and survive and breed reproduce. But over time, you know, over a series of 10 years, those structures only just continue to improve with their efficacy.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (42:35):

Awesome. Thank you, Chris. Okay. Linda from Montana wants to know what kind of research is done to make sure animals use a crossing at a particular location?

Chris Colligan (42:47):

Hmm, that's a good question. You know, one of the things that we've been involved in before crossing structures are built, there is a lot of effort to identify where wildlife wants to move without, you know, before you add structures and fencing to the equation. And so, you know, we've helped fund a camera trap projects where we've placed out remote cameras and documented wildlife use in an area. Oftentimes the state and federal agencies will support efforts to collar animals and using that data to say, this is where animals want to move. Now, you know, there's a certain amount of, of, you know, we can force movement by building fencing and structures. So there's a certain amount that you can get away with, of getting animals to move, you know, a half mile, a mile down a highway corridor to a better spot. And, you know, obviously the most, the best we can do is put it right where they, they want to move and places like Trapper's Point where you have this bottleneck where thousands of animals move through, that's really obvious where that structure needs to be. In areas where you have more diffuse movement, like on winter range you know, it can be less obvious and also data collision data isn't always a pinpoint site specific, you know, a lot of times it's attributed to like the nearest mile marker. So you get these hotspots that look like hotspots, that aren't really hotspots, they're just mile markers, right? Or it's like a road intersection that people when it was data was recorded, that was identified. So, you know, you want to build them in the best possible location. And we do, you know, go through very rigorous analysis and, you know, discussions amongst the experts to figure out where that is. But if it can't be in that spot, there is a certain amount of movement that animals will tolerate to get to that. And they can be even accommodated further by I know in, in the Nugget Canyon project in Wyoming, Wyoming Game and Fish actually put up, put hay in those structures to get get animals, to move through them to bait them towards, to finding that crossing location. Trapper's Point also is a really important migration corridor for livestock. And so cattle move up and down that, that cross, that same migration corridor that wildlife do. And they actually crossed the the overpasses down there. Those cattle have also placed a trail as they trail down in the middle of that overpass that, you know, animals are really used to on the landscape. So there's other accommodations that have been tried like that one that we tried on trap up here on Togotwee Pass. There's a very, very large corrugated metal pipe underpass. I believe it's a 40 foot radius underpass. So it was a massive tunnel under the highway, but it's made out of corrugated metal pipe. And then when it was first installed a group here that we were a part of called Safe Wildlife Crossings Jackson Hole, that Vance Carruth started we paid to hydromulch the inside of it to dampen, you know, the thought was to dampen some of the noise, kind of like we were doing, getting prepared for this this, this session with, you know, being in a hollow room. You know, that same concern for wildlife was that there'd be an echo as animals went through it. So we raised money and paid the hydromulch inside of, you know, make, we were kind of joking about the wildlife underpass chia pet.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (46:42):

Yeah. I would love to be able to hydromulch the room I'm sitting in right now. It's a little too empty since I'm moving. That would be great. Next time, if there's some leftover hydromulch you let me know. Sabrina from California is wondering if there are any projects that have trail cameras nearby where the public can watch wildlife use the crossings?

Chris Colligan (47:05):

So I believe Trapper's Point still has a camera that was hosted by either the town of Pinedale or Pinedale Online. And it's however, probably not as exciting as what you think it might be. You know, I've watched animals use crossings you know limited number of times in my career and being out there and spending a lot of time on these projects. So I think, you know, look for the highlight reel from groups like Greater Yellowstone Coalition and other groups that are helping monitor these structures. And, and that's really a better way to, to get involved and see that you know, we don't, we also don't want to get people set up to think, you know, when you park your car in a along the right of way, and try to watch these, you know, you're also possibly disturbing animals by doing that. And so, you know, that's not the best way for us to document wildlife movements either. And a lot of movement happens at night and a shocking amount of movement happens at night, actually around some of these structures. And that's, you know, you're not gonna see it with, with cameras, unfortunately.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (48:29):

So maybe worth heading over to YouTube or to a partner website and checking out some footage that somebody kindly edited together, as opposed to leaving your tab open and trying to just wait for a critter to, to move by.

Chris Colligan (48:41):

It ould be a long wait. Right.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (48:46):

It could have been something for earlier in quarantine, perhaps. Okay. Ryan from Montana is wondering, are there any examples of predators using wildlife crossings to funnel prey?

Chris Colligan (48:59):

This question always comes up, you know, the idea that there's a predator trap, right at the crossing structure, because you have this funnel and from what is published on it it hasn't been documented now, predators use crossing structures, for sure. Carnivores I tend to say large carnivores cause predators has a different connotation legally specifically here in a month in Wyoming, predator status means something entirely different than what we're talking about. You know, the ecological importance of carnivores, you know, as far as we know there, isn't that like trap mentality that, that, you know, using the landscape that way now that's not to say that it couldn't occur under certain conditions, right. If animals are getting pursued by a carnivore and that pinch point would occur, like there, there are examples of animals killing prey near, or, or in crossing structures, but it's not to the detriment, I guess, of, of any population. It's a natural occurrence.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (50:04):

Okay. Chris, final question for you comes from Erin of Washington, DC, who wants to know, why did the chicken cross the road?

Chris Colligan (50:14):

Well, to get the other side and you know, kind of very similar to wildlife, you know, point A to point B it's, you know, about keeping our roads permeable and allowing that chicken to get across the road safely so that she can have some chicks in the future. And that we don't get inconvenience by getting that chicken while we're, while we are on that roadway.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (50:45):

Perfect. That is a beautiful answer. Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I'm so glad to have you as part of the team, so great to talk to you and just tremendously appreciate all the work that you do.

Chris Colligan (50:59):

Thanks, Kristen. This has been fun. Anytime.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (51:02):

Awesome. I'll talk to you soon.

Chris Colligan (51:04):

Alright. Thanks. See yeah.

Emmy Reed (Editor) (51:07):

Hi, it's Emmy and I edit the podcast. I don't know about you, but I was pretty intrigued when Chris was talking about squirrel ledges earlier in the episode. Luckily I've found a bonus clip post interview where Kristin and Chris discuss what a squirrel ledge is and how it benefits the smaller wildlife residents of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. It's fascinating and I wanted to share, enjoy!

Chris Colligan (51:31):

Squirrel ledges.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (51:32):

Yeah. I love that.

Chris Colligan (51:35):

That was this box culvert for fish passage that they wanted to put in. And, and because of me, cause we had cameras down there, there were in the past, there were these exposed ledges where that bridge went over and you know, there's otters using it there are squirrels using it, beavers, raccoons, like everything would use these little, like one foot narrow ledges in this box culvert. So they'd put added through our advocacy and photos and all the work that we were doing on that project. They added these installed ledges in this culvert for small mammals. So it's not just the big charismatic animals. It's little ones too.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (52:18):

I love that. Wait, so were there ledges that then the animals, the littler animals were happening to use and then they became part of the design or were they, they were there all along?

Chris Colligan (52:26):

So there was this old, it was an old box culvert, but it wasn't even a box culvert, it was a three-sided culvert. And so the bottom of the concrete box had scoured out completely and the footings were left standing. And, you know, if you're familiar with what footings are at the, at the foundation of structures, you know, they're like square boxes that have left a ledge above the creek that animals could walk on. And, you know, with the old structure that was like severely degraded that they were trying to improve so it didn't wash out a major highway they installed a larger structure and it has baffles in it it's four-sided has what's called concrete baffles to benefit trout passage. So those baffles kind of create pools and slow down the water movement through the structure so that the fish can get up at that. You know, in doing that, we, we asked for and had installed these like wooden platforms that go along the edge that small mammals are going to continue to use in that structure when the water's high.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (53:35):

That's great. Everybody's everybody's thought of, all right.

Kristin Kuhn (Host) (53:39):

So why did the chicken cross the road? If it's anything like the wildlife we just discussed it's to get to its seasonal range or simply move throughout its habitat. Another way of looking at it, however, is that the chicken and wildlife alike crossroads, because well, roads cross the landscapes that these animals live on wildlife was moving throughout this ecosystem long before roads existed and will continue to do so here at the Greater Yellowstone Coalition, we're devoted to making roads safer for humans and maintaining or improving habitat connectivity for animals by advancing innovative solutions like wildlife overpasses and underpasses. The fact that these crossings contribute to an up to 90% reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions isn't too shabby. If you'd like to contribute to our work, protecting the incredible Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem you may do so via the show notes. We had so much fun gathering listener questions for our guest. If you'd like to join our community of podcast supporters, you can find the link in the show notes to sign up for our email list. You'll be the first to know what topic will be featured in our next episode, have the opportunity to submit questions for upcoming guests and get an insider's heads up of when the next episode will be released. It's a pretty sweet perk. So make sure you sign up today. And of course, an enormous thank you to Chris for taking time to talk with us today. We also extend our gratitude to you for tuning in wherever you may be. We look forward to sharing more stories with you from the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. Until next time.