Sandhill Cranes: Greater Yellowstone's Modern Dinosaurs

Have you ever heard what sounds like a prehistoric call on the air? It’s one of my favorite sounds that signals spring’s arrival in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.

One of my favorite questions to ask friends, or just people I meet in general, is "What’s your favorite bird?" I’m usually met with a long groan at the impossible nature of the question. Many times, the answer I receive is a Sandhill crane. 

Sandhill cranes are seasonal visitors to the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem. So, what is it about these lanky birds that draws us in? Is it their strange call that can be heard up to 2 ½ miles away? Is it their graceful nature as they wander wetlands and marshes? Maybe it's their fancy dance moves when they hope someone is watching.

Famed writer and father of wildlife ecology and modern conservation Aldo Leopold once said, “When we hear his call, we hear no mere bird. We hear the trumpet in the orchestra of evolution.”

Joining us on the episode today are Courtney Rudd and Rene Schell from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. 

Courtney is the Migratory Game Bird and Wetland Biologist, where her position affords abundant opportunities to collaborate with a diverse set of partners to conserve migratory game birds and their habitats, domestically and internationally. While based out of the Lander Regional Office, her responsibilities take her to all reaches of Wyoming for data collection, monitoring, project reconnaissance and implementation, and engaging with the public. 

Rene is the Information and Education Supervisor, where she has been a dedicated voice for conservation since 2005. Rene leads a statewide team of specialists committed to the Department’s mission of "Conserving Wildlife, Serving People." As a specialist in wildlife education and public participation, Rene is passionate about creating "gateway moments" for the public—using ambassadors like the Great Horned Owl to foster a lifelong appreciation for Wyoming’s wildlife. 

The Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem is the land of 49+ Indigenous Tribes who maintain current and ancestral connections to the lands, waters, wildlife, plants, and more.

Voices of Greater Yellowstone was created by the Greater Yellowstone Coalition, a conservation nonprofit dedicated to working with people to protect the lands, waters, and wildlife of the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, now and for future generations.

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Podcast Artwork > Rachel Dunlap Art

Music > Redwood Trail by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...)

Banner Photo > Tom Koerner/USFWS

Sandhill Crane Call Audio > NPS

Photo Tom Koerner/USFWS

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

Because we're talking about it on this podcast, right? Because we have people that are passionate about sandhill cranes. If we can get people excited about a four-foot-tall dancing bird, then maybe they'll also be excited about conserving the habitat that they live in.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

It's one of my favorite sounds that signals spring's arrival in the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Welcome back to the Voices of Greater Yellowstone Podcast, where we share the stories and science of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. I'm your host, Emmy Reid. One of my very favorite questions to ask friends, or just people I meet in general, is what's your favorite bird? I'm usually met with a long groan at the impossible nature of the question. But many times the answer I receive is a stamp-hook crane. So what is it about these linky birds that draws us in? Is it their strange call that can be heard up to two and a half miles away? Is it their graceful nature as they wander wetlands and marshes? Famed writer and father of wildlife ecology and modern conservation, Alder Leopold once said, When we hear his call, we hear no mere bird. We hear the trumpet in the orchestra of evolution. Joining us today are Courtney Rudd and Renee Schell from the Wyoming Game and Fish Department. Courtney is a migratory game bird and wetland biologist, where her position affords abundant opportunities to collaborate with a diverse set of partners to conserve migratory game birds and their habitats domestically and internationally. Renee Shell is the information and education supervisor, where she has been a dedicated voice for conservation since 2005. She is passionate about creating gateway moments for the public, using ambassadors like the Great Horned Owl to foster a lifelong appreciation for Wyoming's wildlife. All right, let's go ahead and wade into this conversation. So sandhill cranes are known for their iconic call. How would you describe their call to someone who has never heard it before?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Well, that's a great question. This is Courtney chiming in. Oh, interesting. So it's it's um uncomplicated but assertive. Um sometimes it's variable in its intensity, but overwhelmingly loud.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah. And I'm always thinking of it, this is Renee, I'm always thinking of it like um as very prehistoric, almost pterodactyl-like, you know. And then so I've been hearing them at my house right now, currently, and I'm trying to figure out are they on the ground, are they flying? Because just as soon as you think you're hearing them, you know, on the ground, you see them flying overhead. And it's like, okay, I can't quite even put into perspective where they are on the landscape, but they're loud and and they're here. Right.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

And that I I think their ability to project very long distances, um, like upwards of 200 or sorry, 2.5 miles, um, if the topography is right, um, is pretty remarkable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

It's so fascinating. And I always love to hear the story of when folks first heard a sandhill crane call. Um, it just feels like it gets seared into your main because the sound is so strange and it just makes you pause and think, what the heck is that? Do you have any memory of the first time you heard it?

SPEAKER_03 4:21

I think my my first distinct memory is my initial spring living in Victor, Idaho, which would have been oh, the late 90s, and the Teton Basin um has a healthy population of Santo Cranes. And again, I mean it it's unmistakable. I don't think like in that moment I didn't know what it was, but um in that moment it really registered like, okay, they're here. Um and this is very exciting. I don't I don't think I lived, you know, grew up in in pretty suburban urban environments, and we did not have Sand Hill Cranes on the landscape in those locations. So um I remember being excited that first spring after a long winter in the Tetons.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Yeah, mine was, I was trying to think about this. Um, mine was probably in 2006. So I had just the year before moved to Wyoming, grew up in Florida, did not heal hear sandhill cranes in Florida, although probably could have, but just you know, grew up in also like an urban area, and we did camping, but probably just was never in the right area. So backcountry camping in Yellowstone that summer of 2006, and you know, an adjacent meadow, couldn't see them, could hear them, and luckily like I wasn't alone, otherwise I might have been a little weirded out like what is happening? Like the first time I saw a badger. But um, yeah, my group told you know, explained what they were, and I was like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool! What a neat, what a neat creature. And I think we even kind of snuck over to to take a peek of them. So it's pretty special.

SPEAKER_03 6:11

Yeah, and then the in-person audible, it sure, and I think you know, growing up, um, and you know, through you know, schooling and whatnot, like the you know, have always had the general awareness of these Sand Hill Crane migrations, especially through portions of the country such as Nebraska. Like, so you know, I've we've all seen them on the the television screen, but it is it is even more remarkable in person, even if it's just one pair or a single bird. Yeah. Um, that beats the television screen.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Right. Okay, so we talked about their call, but you know, maybe they're hanging out on the ground or flying in the air. And let's dive into the basics of how you can identify one. Could you describe what they look like and about how big they are?

SPEAKER_03 7:04

Okay. Um, general description of Santhill Crane, um, a very tall bird, one of the tallest birds, uh, not the tallest, but one of the tallest birds um in North America. Um you know, about a meter and change, um with a wingspan about double that. Um four to five feet tall, very long legs, um, a long neck, typically mousy gray, um, but they can um appear to be rust colored. Um that's that's due to some preening behaviors um in iron-rich um environments. Um very like a long stout bill, um because they are probers when they are foraging. Um I think you know, juveniles are an orange brown, not because it's iron, iron substrate, um, but by the end of their first calendar year, they approach, you know, the that adult size and um are developing that mousy gray, mousy gray plumage with a bit of brown feathering. Um and then you know, the red cap, that's that's going to develop um as they are, you know, full adult plumage.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

I kind of feel like they have like this bustle of feathers on their backside that maybe makes them look different. I don't know. That's how I see it. Like sort of like old timey ladies with a little like a red cap and like a little spur. I don't know, right?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yes, I totally know what you mean. That's such a great way to describe it.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Um, and you know, as far as identifying sand tail crane in flight, um, I think it it could be easy to mistake them for a great blue heron, or that's a very common um misidentification, but a a sandtail crane will fly with its neck fully extended, while the great blue heron retracts that neck and that head um, you know, closer to the body.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

Yeah, I didn't even think about that, but yeah, that's totally how they fly. I always wonder if they wake up with neck pain. Um, but I want to touch again on the red cap because it's so identifiable and it's so striking when you see it in person or in photos. And can you tell, like, are those red feathers like what makes it so red?

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Well, it it's actually, in fact, it is an unfeathered body part. Um, there might be some short bristles um on that expanse of skin, um, but it is a feature that doesn't develop um until probably like year two or three fully. Um and all that Renee speak to how it might like enlarge and retract.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Yeah, so it's highly vascularized, which is why it appears red. And it's sort of like, I think about it, like a mood ring. So it can you can tell a lot about their mood, similar to, you know, like a turkey, a male turkey when it's strutting, and you look at it when it's not strutting, and that the neck and the gobble are very kind of grayish, and then all of a sudden it's sort of performing and strutting and it turns really red. Um, so it's just like this highly vascularized piece of skin that isn't really needed until they're closer to that kind of breeding age.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

Interesting. So people think it's more about communication.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Yes. Yep. It'll be interesting. I don't know this, but it'd be interesting to, you know, somebody probably knows, watch for long periods of time and see even how that coloration might change throughout the day. Because it's highly vascularized. I mean, it appears red all the time, but does it get more red at times? I would think so, right? But I I don't have answers to that. I don't know either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

That'd be and I'd be curious if it's like any difference between the male and the females. Like they both have them, but are they noticing any dimorphic differences there?

SPEAKER_01 11:42

Yeah, I think if it gets really red, you know, I I I've heard they're feeling sort of defensive. Um, so I, you know, maybe again some cues there to one another. Um, yeah, it'd be interesting. Maybe somebody will comment on your podcast or write you and say, I know exactly more about this.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

I hope so. Bird lovers, please send in your comments. We gotta know. Um, what type of habitat do sandhill cranes prefer?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

You know, in general, um I think that they prefer wet areas, um wet meadows, emergent wetlands, scrub shrub wetlands, um, even like riparian areas um with open edges. Um but I've also seen them, you know, uh using mature cottonwood-dominated riparian reaches. I mean, they hide very well in there. Um, but they also um enjoy cultivated grain fields immensely, um unharvested and recently harvested for the weight, you know, easy, easily accessed waste grains. Um, but in general, they are a a water bird, um, or they they need that perennially wet habitat um primarily, you know, um for the abundant foraging opportunities.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Yeah, what are they foraging for? Yeah, that's what I was gonna say too. It seems like they're kind of generalists.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

They are. They are they are um textbook omnivores, um everything from tubers, crayfish, berries, seeds, nestling birds, not their own, um, snakes, snails, reptiles, amphibians, mice, voles.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Um, they're opportunistic. Um it sounds kind of like a bear. I mean, honestly, like you listed a ton of things that like bears eat.

SPEAKER_03 13:57

Right, you know, or a great horned owl. Yeah. Um yeah, I think we we do we do have a handful of these species in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem that they're versatile, opportunistic. Um unlike, well, you know, like for instance, the black-footed ferret, a little more selective.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Um yeah, not um, not a great adaptation to only eat one thing in the environment. Fantastic. If you can eat multiple things, you're probably gonna have a pretty good chance of like survival and reproduction.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

Yeah, to add to that, I mean, I think even like invertebrate, you know, they'll bugs, um, and you know, just any sort of like small, small-scale vertebrate.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

Um and do they pierce it with their like closed bill? Is that a thing? Or do they how do they get it? Yeah, or I guess it depends. If it's a mouse, they probably pierce it if it's a bug, they're yeah, grabbing it.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

And yeah, and they are very, they're aggressive creatures. Um, I or I think of them as yeah, they might look graceful on the landscape and you know, like they're flowing along, but but when it matters, whether they're defending their young or defending their nesting territory or intent on that's their next meal, um, yeah, watch out for that bill. Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Seriously. Yeah, that's very interesting how they adapt to like food opportunities, but also that their bill can adapt to many different food sources. I think of examples like Darwin's finches and you know, the bills that have like a very particular um niche food that they can really only eat. But it sounds like, yeah, sandhill cranes are like, nah, we'll figure it out. Don't worry. Stab it, catch it, whatever we gotta do.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Just like, yeah, if it's a tuber, they've gotta like just swallow it, or yeah, I don't know, all kinds of things.

SPEAKER_00 15:57

So I think something that is maybe one of my favorite things to see um is a baby sandhill crane. And they're called colts. Why do you think they're called colts? And if you've maybe seen one walk around, I think you can maybe make a guess, but wondering if you have any any inside information on that.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah, I d I don't have, I've not been able to locate like a precise origin story, but I do think if you've whether you've seen one in person or on a screen, um it it the the it it's an uncanny similarity to to a baby equine. Um, with the the very long legs, the joyful prancing around, the um kind of gangly looking.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Gangly.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Um but yeah, I think the the legs, the legs kind of seal like a horse, a little horse. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Yeah. Yeah, just following their parents around. Um so the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem is home to many animals like coyotes, foxes, and raptors that may see a sandhill crane and its colts as a tasty snack. So, what kind of defense mechanisms does a sandhill crane have?

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Well, they they are known to be notoriously protective of their young and will use multiple body parts um to to come to the defense of their of their young. Um I think I mean they'll they'll kick, they'll hiss, they'll they'll use their wings, and I think, you know, um circling back to that stout bill, they will use that to inflict um injury if they have that opportunity. Um they will also they're also known to they they will hide their young, you know, in the habitat um if if there's something tall enough um or or I guess isolated enough, um they they are known to to hide those nestlings.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

I I think too, um, you know, just back to the kind of like one reason why they love those wetlands is they'll sleep standing in the shallow water, and partly that's because they can hear if a predator's coming, right? They'll hear that sound. Um, also just the the it's like thinking of a coyote in particular, right? It's it's a pretty big risk for a coyote to want to mess with that bill. So like it's way easier way um the coyote can save itself a lot of injury, potentially um a lot of what no, a lot of injury and energy. It can save a lot by just not messing with a sandhill crane to begin with. So I think like an easier prey for a coyote is a mouse or a rabbit or something where it's like just less likely to come away with an impalement, you know what I mean. So I I think the bill goes a long way in intimidation.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Right. That makes sense. Has there has Wyoming game and fish ever had a recorded sandhill crane attack on a person? I I ne I doubt it. I doubt it. I've never heard of it.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

I have not. I will say, if so, likely somebody was trying to feed it. This is where this is where these weird interactions happen, like humans behaving badly so much more.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Yes, or if if there has been an injury and I've not been on, you know, one of or I've not been involved in one of these opportunities, but um the department has historically been involved with like trapping and banding and marking sandhill planes um in Wyoming. And I would imagine like when you're doing that kind of activity, that there's always a risk of, I mean, there's there's proper handling techniques and um, you know, gear, field gear that can mostly prevent um, you know, an an injury from a probing bill. But uh I wouldn't be surprised if there's been a few scrapes during those efforts.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Protection is high on that list of like, I'm sure nobody's trapping sandhill cranes and banding them without some eye protection, or maybe even like you should probably wear a helmet with a shield. Like probably so, but I don't know that they're doing that, but it wouldn't hurt. Right.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

I think you know, if I've heard of folks having um or or I guess um sustaining injuries from birds um in Wyoming, it's it's more associated with raptor survey work. Yeah. When it comes to American goshawks, um, they are particularly defensive of their of their nesting territories.

SPEAKER_01 21:08

Um yeah, if you know, it kind of does just make me think about uh Wyoming Game and Fish were always trying to um increase, you know, ethics and public viewing ethics. And so if someone has ever been injured by a sandhill crane, they were way too close, right? Yeah, way too close. And most people don't ever get that close because sandhill cranes don't want to be that close to someone, right? But um sometimes it's even hard, and you can um use this or not if you want, but like sometimes it's hard for people to know if they are too close to wildlife, you know, they'll think, oh, I'm at 50 yards and um it's fine, I'm not disturbing them. They didn't run away, but for us in general, like if an animal pauses and looks your direction, then you are disturbing maybe it's natural foraging, right? Or you don't know what's happening to Its heart rate. So I'm just inserting a little bit of like wildlife ethics, viewing ethics there. You know, a hundred yards, even for a standhill crane, is is best.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

Exactly. It's it's such a good reminder because I think, yeah, we think of like bears and wolves and like, yeah, stay back. But yeah, you're totally right. In general, if an animal stops, it's normal behavior to either look at you or you can just tell it hears you and it's deciding what to do, then yeah, let's not do that at all. And for birds or bears or anything in between.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Yeah, exactly. Let's not cost it that little bit of stressful energy.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

Exactly. Quickly, I want to jump back to their calls. Um so we talked a little bit that they are so incredibly loud. We can you can hear them and you'll like look around and you can't even figure out where they are because it's so loud. Um, what gives them the ability to project those calls so loud at such a high level?

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I think you know, the short story with with that ability to project, um, it's a physiological adaptation. Um and more precisely, it's it's um the ability for their trachea to both elongate and coil, um, which which affects the projection of their calls. Um and then like at the same time, they've got the syrinx, which is the voice, the actual voice organ, um which also provides uh the Santel Crane the ability to project more quietly um during like brooding and rearing portions of the breeding season, um, which is also a time when pears tend to be a little less gregarious. Um but yes, in short, it's a it's a physiological adaptation.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Yeah, yeah. I think about like when you said that trachea that you know expands and contracts and um yeah, just really amplifying that sound. And I loved to think too about you know, we that's the sound we hear all the time as people, the loud sound. But then what are all the little murmurings and mutterings that must go on between them and between the cults and the adults? And yeah, there's I'm sure a huge range there, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:30

I mean, I think in uh in particular, I um, you know, the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, they have, you know, a fabulous, uh, fabulous website. Um, you know, it it's probably worth checking out the juvenile call, which sounds more like something that would come out of a small songbird.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

When they are making that really loud call, what are they trying to communicate?

SPEAKER_03 24:58

You know, I think it uh that they they can multi-message with with those large calls. Um, I mean, I think that traditional what is known as the rattle call, um it can mean it can mean I've found a new foraging spot. It can mean we are headed to the roosting spot uh for the night. Um it can be, you know, um something that's emitted during a transition to a resting spot for the day.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

Um so I'm thinking too, because it does seem like you know, it's not territorial like maybe an owl's call, and they're saying, This is my territory, you know, no other owls come in. So is it a pairing up, like a calling together, or they'll even call on their own? Call on their own or call with the group.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Um, so I think it's not exclusive to courtship necessarily. Okay. Um, because they will like during their, and I know we'll talk about this in a bit, but just their dancing routine. Um they'll emit calls there as well. Um, but it doesn't mean not all dancing means courtship.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:23

Um so with the calls, there's obviously a lot of nuance that we that I can't interpret. Let me just say that, that I don't know, you know, these nuanced maybe differences. Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

But you know, for instance, um on the landscape that Renee and I are, you know, exposed to on a daily basis during Sandhill Crane breeding season, um I can hear the rattle call, you know, from start to finish. So it's it's not just the the courtship.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

Um, or it's not just communicating courtship activity.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

And of course, speaking of dancing, it's not a podcast about sand hill cranes if we don't talk about their dancing. Tell me a bit about why they dance and maybe a little bit about what it looks like.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

Okay. Well, I think, you know, when it comes to dancing, I think we don't know every reason why they do it. Um, some of it can be courtship related, but they've been observed um doing the dancing routine on staging grounds, on migration, stopover points, on wintering grounds. Um, and it is elaborate. I mean, it's um they use all their body parts as well as objects found on the landscape, sticks and grass and um yeah, head throwing and kicking, and I don't think we know all the reasons why they do it in the group.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

It sounds like a party or a celebration or like a like a social, like a social bonding almost. But yeah, that's the fun part about science. There's so many things still to be discovered, right? Or like we have all these theories, but the animals maybe will never tell us exactly why, but we're gonna put all our theories on top of it anyway, and all of our guesses, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, I mean, of course it makes so much sense that it would have some sort of social meaning. Um, because I guess has it ever been um viewed or recorded where a sandhill crane is just dancing by itself, or is it always at least seemed to be with another crane or in a group of cranes?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

I don't know uh the answer to that, but right my guess would be that it's always amongst others. But I don't know if I don't know if anyone's ever filmed one alone.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

Right. I don't think I mean I've definitely seen single birds on the landscape, but not dancing, not dancing, um, certainly calling and predominantly foraging. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Uh yeah. I just like I'll have to we'll do a little digging and see if we can find an answer. But just in my mind, just thinking of a little sandhill crane out in the field dancing by itself is really cute.

SPEAKER_01 29:22

Yeah, yeah, that would be interesting.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Because there's so many wonderful, unique things about sand hill cranes that also like to talk about their flying abilities. Um, you know, what can you tell me about their migration and flying patterns and where they fly and how fast they fly?

SPEAKER_03 29:41

Good question. Um I think, you know, from a greater Yellowstone ecosystem perspective, the birds that we're seeing in this region are part of the Rocky Mountain population of greater sandhill cranes. Um and generally speaking, like sandhill cranes are categorized into different populations um throughout North America based on where the majority of those individuals spend the breeding season. They might spend time on the wintering ground in mixed populations, um, but the birds that we're seeing in the GYE, you know, migrating through or on the landscape, those are almost always the Rocky Mountain population birds.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

Um they fly in like a V-shaped pattern, right? So is that you know more of like a longer distance migratory pattern because it saves so much energy and they can, you know, flap a little bit and then glide for long periods. Right. Um, so that I think of them when I think of that, I know a lot of people think of geese when they think of that V-shaped pattern. And geese, you know, back to sort of the neck, you could tell the difference, you know, if they're really high, like if they're 10,000 feet high, you could tell the difference the goose's neck's gonna be withdrawn and the crane's neck's gonna be extended or extended longer. Right because the goose might be a little extended, I guess, too, when I'm thinking of it, but like it's gonna be extended longer.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

And the migration is it is a very long migration potentially from their wintering grounds. Um, it's happening right now. I mean, we we have we already have birds on the landscape in portions of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem here in mid-March. Um, but they they'll continue to make those movements um, you know, into April to initiate, you know, the breeding or I guess the nesting season. Um and and pears um they they do mate for life, um and they are they they return to the same territory each year. They typically lay one to three eggs. I guess it's fairly common for two eggs to hatch. Like it is also known that there is like sibling rivalry. Like once those those colts are on the ground and walking, and they are walking within 24 hours. Um like a horse, just like a colt, right? Just like a cult. Yes. Um, yeah, that there is competition between those those two cults. And um we do know that like to some extent the male in the pair will take on one, take on the rearing of one colt, and the the female will take on the rearing of the other.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

So three could really would really be a problem, which is probably why I've never seen three cults. I've seen one, I've seen two, I've never I've never seen that. Unusual.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

And it's um I think getting a pet like two two colts to like true fledged fledgling um age, you know, that the that that's a challenge. Um just given given all the I guess predators on the landscape and collisions, unfortunate collisions with with parapoles and fences and um it is a hard life to be a bird. It really is.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

So hard.

SPEAKER_01 33:53

No, it is a hard life.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

I have a um going back to flying real quick, when I sometimes hear a sandhill crane and I'm looking around for it, and then I'll look straight above me, and it's like a pinprick. Uh like and it's flying so high that like the only reason I know it's a sandhill crane is because I hear its call. Um, is that like a unique flying ability? I just don't feel like I see many birds that fly that high.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Potentially because they're so large, you can see them, and maybe you're not seeing a smaller bird. That's just my first instinct on that. I mean, they you know, use the thermals like other birds.

SPEAKER_03 34:34

Yeah, I think of I mean, other birds that I think of that that are high high flyers are you know raptors, yep. Um, again, using those thermals. But yes, much uh a very different uh altitude than your you know backyard hummingbirds or post benches.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Um and if those guys fly that high, well I'm definitely not seeing them if a hummingbird is like migrating at that height or hearing them. Yeah, or hearing them.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

I think it's just like being blown away and maybe just tumbling through the air. Um, yeah, the sandal cranes are going to be a little more ability to withstand those thermals. But um So, you know, they're they're migrating to the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem each year. Um I'm kind of thinking, you know, you guys are down in Lander, I'm up here in Bozeman, and you know, there's a lot a lot of spots you can see them. Where are they spending their summers? I'm sorry, where are they spending the winters?

SPEAKER_03 35:35

That was once this Rocky Mountain population you know has completed the you know, the bulk of the breeding season, um, there's this phenomenon uh that you know, uh I guess subflocks or you know groups within this population will wind up um on what we call what we know as staging grounds. Um, and we have staging grounds within the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Um and at that point in the calendar year, they will sometimes hang out for a couple weeks um on the landscape. And it again, it tends to be these traditional known areas. I mean, we don't know about every single traditional staging area.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Is this like a stopover, or is this like this is what I'm imagining? So tell me if I'm right or wrong. They're waiting for to be like picked up by the birds further north, right? Like they're waiting, they're like, this is where we wait, this is where they fly over, this is where I'm going with my imagination. Is that is that like a staging ground?

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Right. And you know, the um heavy foraging, bulking up, um, you know, again, like common at this point in the calendar year to see large numbers of these birds on recently harvested grain fields where they can load up on waste grain. Um, you know, the ground is still soft, so easily foraged vertebrates and invertebrates. There's still, you know, bug hatches during like September, you know, into early October before they decide to make a push to what is known as the San Luis Valley in Colorado, which winds up being more of a stopover point. Um, it's you know, yes, they're I think you know, these wintering grounds, stopover locations, like they're constantly like it's it's shifting. There's there's there's changes in those locations, but that particular valley in Colorado is a hot spot for a stopover, which also can last for weeks, if not a couple months. Like large gathering stopover. And like most of the Rocky Mountain population has been documented to stop over in that general vicinity. Um that being said, you know, caveat, like because these populations, you know, adjust um to climate, um, to unusual winters like we've just had, um, you know, there there's documented wintering in northwestern Colorado. There's pretty sure we've got um a handful of birds like wintering, overwintering uh north of Riverton, Wyoming this year. They just didn't have to, the conditions didn't didn't require that they seek you know more gentle wintering ground.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

That's so interesting. So not like um day length based necessarily or primary or only or not like you know, angle of the sun, like not only based on some other things, but a little bit more. It's going back to the bear. I'm I'm really tying together the sandhill crane and the bear. Like the bears can stay out and continue to forage, right? If there's food. That's fascinating. In Riverton, there's a ton of ag. So like we see them in the fall really gathering on, and like Courtney was saying, kind of fattening up, if you will, on those ag grounds. Right.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Um, and I think too, you know, uh to circle back to like I I haven't quite gotten to their wintering grounds. I mean, right, maybe I should do that. So, you know, after that that stopover in the San Luis Valley in Colorado, um then you know that the dispersal to the wintering ground um occurs, and that they spread out a little more on the landscape um into like the middle middle Rio Grande Valley in New Mexico, portions of southeast Arizona, highland mountain um northern highlands of Mexico. Um and I think you know, um because this population is actually, you know, increasing to some degree, like I think that's why on the landscape we're seeing, we're seeing, you know, whether it's small flocks or sizable flocks um associated with the Rocky Mountain population, like they are pioneering um new wintering grounds um if the habitat needs are met.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah, that sounds like uh yeah, that's where I would spend my winters too. It sounds like a pretty nice place to be. Um what is uh uh maybe you know, interesting or a unique behavior that you've you know observed sandhill cranes doing in the wild, or maybe if if you haven't even observed it, you know, firsthand, what's something that you've learned about that you think is really, really cool?

SPEAKER_01 41:22

What about the I mean we've talked about so many already, but I'm thinking of the the rusty color you alluded to early on is like an interesting behavior to me, how they sometimes go from this gray to this rusty color in iron-rich environments and like why maybe they do that. Like, yeah, so I it's um you know, they can kind of paint themselves with mud to help camouflage, and so that to me, that's just like really bridges. I don't know, like what an adaptation. Is that close to using a tool a little bit? And then they're dancing and throwing things, like is that a I don't know, just any of these animals that are using the environment that's outside of themselves for a reason or to an advantage, like that just really fascinates me. Um, so that that's interesting to me. Yeah, that one sticks out. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

I think um if if I've uh you know, maybe it's not so much like unusual behaviors, but I think I've been surprised where I've seen them on the landscape. I think, you know, we've talked about we've talked about, you know, the typical habitat where you would expect to to find a sandhill crane pair during the breeding season. Um, but I think I've been taken aback by um like some of the high, very high elevation locations I've seen them in the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. When I was conducting um aerial surveys for harlequin ducks, um, which you know, that that that survey, the Harlequin ducts survey that I've conducted, is like a you know late, mid to late spring effort. And you know, it typically includes getting into high country that still has a fair amount of snowpack. Um, you know, that there might be some open open flowing mountain streams. Um and that those harlequin ducks do show up pretty early, um, all things considered. But during these surveys, like seeing these sand hill crane pears um in these, you know, along these high elevation mountain streams with small openings in the snowpack that you know clearly have some forage available, you know, with a like a pretty high. Component of like sagebrush on the landscape has struck me like, okay, these birds, not only are they opportunistic on what they'll feed and forage for, but they're opportunistic in finding that just the right spot or returning to just the right spot that they're comfortable breeding in.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah, returning to those spots. But then that was interesting what you said too, you know, thinking of them in this little opening. I'm I'm I'm envisioning like surrounded by snow, but somehow they know they're a generalist enough with food that, like, well, I'm gonna go to this little opening in the water and I can probably find something to eat there, right? Like, that's a pretty handy adaptation as well.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

Right, you know, like and very, as you might imagine, very little human disturbance in those locations. Um, you might get some summer traffic through these areas, um in the what I know to be like the Buffalo fork country, northeast of Moran Junction. But um, yeah, I mean, I think birds in general, while they can adapt to human disturbance, um they're, you know, that they do have a preference for having a quiet incubation um stretch. Yeah. And they're gonna get that in a place like that high elevation.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

I mean, we were talking about sandhill cranes, you know, talking about their calls are like prehistoric. Like sometimes you kind of see one and think it's a dinosaur. Um, but it something pretty interesting to me about sandhill cranes is their fossil record and how they're like, I'm pretty sure it's their fossil record has been confirmed to be the oldest bird that still exists, correct?

SPEAKER_03 45:55

That sounds correct. Or yes, yes. I have seen I didn't know that. Reference to that. Like many, many millions of years.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Yes, yeah. And I will triple confirm that in our outro and show notes going out. But I remember like that was something I learned and that, you know, they so when you hear that call and you're thinking, oh, dinosaur, you're like, actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:19

Actually, yes, not maybe too far off from a pterodactyl. I was thinking Velociraptor the other night when I was listening to them.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

They're just so dang special. I love them. How do your jobs at Wyoming Gaiman fish interact with sandhill cranes? You both do two very different jobs. Um, how do you find sandhill cranes um looped into your your job description or what you're doing out in the field or talking to Wyomingites?

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Right. I think, you know, um from my perspective or in my position, I kind of I I encounter them in two different, very specific ways. Um and you know, like so, you know, generally speaking, our department contributes to the management of Santhill Cranes breeding and migrating through the state. Um, you know, Wyoming comprises portions of the central and Pacific flyways, which in effect are very large-scale migratory corridors generally delineated by habitats and geography. Um Wyoming, you know, as I mentioned, it it comprises the Central and Pacific Flyways, so it's it's a split split status state. Um, you know, there's only three other states that that are split: Montana, Colorado, and New Mexico. Um, and it's because we have the continental divide um creating that boundary between the flyways. Um so you know, from a flyway perspective or contributing to flyway efforts, um we as a member of the Central and Pacific Flyways um work collaboratively within each of the flyways and amongst the flyways to share information, allocate research funds, um, consider the data sets, develop the management plans for these Sandhill Crane populations. And we also, you know, develop recommendations for species harvest, not just Santail cranes, um, and management of those species. Um additionally, the other prong of my Santhill Crane responsibilities include the monitoring of the two Santhill Crane species in Wyoming. Um I've got a fall staging um survey that includes ground counts and aerial counts, and and those those counts go to a federal database that is held by the Fish and Wildlife Service. Um and from there, you know, that they they calculate um population estimates and indexes, and that ultimately informs the harvest management of the Rocky Mountain population. Um also have a spring count effort of what is known as the mid-continent continent population, which comprises like the eastern third of Wyoming. And I'm actually going to be performing that count um this coming Monday.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah, it's always interesting to me, I think that people may not realize how much we work with other states, you know, to manage a species. So this to me is a perfect example of how we can't, you know, think these birds don't know the borders of our state. And so, you know, we have Courtney manages across a flyway with other states. Um I just think that that's really interesting and neat to to point out in case people miss that that piece of it, that like we have to kind of do this in conjunction and look at their population as a whole. Whereas things like deer, of course, I know we we all know they go over boundaries and things like that, but they don't migrate as far as the sandhill crane, right? Um, my job is more public-facing often, and so interacting with the public with information and education. And and what I love about some of the charismatic fauna that we have, so I put sandhill crane in there because it is such a big bird, because we're talking about it on this podcast, right? Because we have people that um are passionate about sandhill cranes. If we can get people excited about a four-foot-tall dancing bird, um, then maybe they'll also be excited about conserving the habitat that they live in. So folks probably, you know, understand that like without all of our healthy habitats, we can't have the wildlife that we enjoy. So while we may not be in awe of um a marsh reed, you know, whatever it is, I don't know, which maybe we should be, but I'm just saying. Um hopefully, you know, people draw that connection. And my mind is always thinking about, you know, the 50 years from now, and we need people to still be caring that we work to conserve wildlife. You know, we conserve wildlife and we serve people, but we serve people because they want us to conserve wildlife. So we need them to want that, and then we need them to care about habitat. So that's a really big view, but like that's what I love um yeah, talking about all these all these species.

SPEAKER_00 51:58

So yeah, perfectly said. I love that. What are some of the best places to view sandhill cranes and the greater Yellowstone ecosystem? And we touched base um a little bit about this of you know, trying not to disturb any birds, but what are some some good tips for being a respectful bird watcher as well?

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Okay, as far as locations, um, I'm gonna be a bit partial to Wyoming, um, and I'm you know a little bit better in the know. Um but I guess you know that it kind of depends on what time of year you are wanting to observe them. But um, you know, uh I would I would say like most national wildlife refuges in Wyoming, which you know could include Seat Skitty or Cokev Meadows, um, there's going to be an opportunity to, at a minimum, probably hear a sandhill crane or a pear, um, especially, you know, any sort of um, I guess, part of the landscape with with a substantial wetland complex that is you know like permanently, permanently flooded or permanently wet throughout the course of the summer. Um, you're gonna likely, at a minimum, hear a sand hill crane. Um, your national parks in Wyoming, Yellowstone, Grant Town, which um, yes, also include portions of Idaho and Montana. Um, you know, um in Wyoming we have wildlife habitat management areas, um, many of which um contain um significant wetland complexes. Um so you know, if you were to get on our website, we've got we've got plenty of information about those WHMAs, um where you're likely to be able to observe or or hear Santo Cranes. Um I think if you're in Montana, uh the Montana portion of the GYE, um you could try the Paradise, Paradise Valley and Centennial Valleys come to mind. But I also know that there's there's there's abundant opportunities, again, like associated with those preferred habitats. And when you've got when you've got a significant wetland complex, emergent wetland complex, you're gonna hear and see them on the landscape. Um but if you're if your focus is seeing larger groups of sand hill cranes, um that's when you know um you could you could focus on those what we call staging areas um in the GYE. Um again that that's going to comprise their preferred habitat or you know uh extensive wetland complexes on your National Wildlife Refugees. But also I think if you cue in on those grain, you know, cropped cropped areas with grains recently harvested in particular, um there's a higher chance of seeing, you know, a group of 50, a group of 100. Um, or if you're really lucky, um sometimes those those groups number into the thousands.

unknown 55:28

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

And are especially audible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:33

Unlike the the ethics part of it, um, binoculars are great, you know. Especially, I mean, if you're a birder and you know you're going out for that purpose, I you can't imagine you wouldn't have them anyway. Um, even though they're a large bird, I would say you could still use your binoculars to feel like you're closer, right? So that's one thing. I think 100 yards is a great distance to stay from wildlife. Uh, one thing I do love about sandhill cranes is usually you know if they're there, right? Because, well, like we talked about earlier, you might hear them before you even see them. So that's kind of handy. Um, but again, if you are, if it seems like you are inciting a vocalization, you're definitely too close, right? Or if it if their behavior is changing, or they've paused to glance in your direction, those are just signs that maybe you're you're too close. Choose a different vantage point, um, get out your binoculars, bring a spotting scope. That's a great way to really see like what does it have in its mouth? Oh my gosh, it's eating a mouse, or you know, whatever that is. Um Right.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

A spotting scope can make the day. Yeah. Yeah. Um, especially with a charismatic bird, such as the Santa Crane.

SPEAKER_01 56:47

Yeah. Um I think the nice thing too, um, especially, you know, in more publicly traveled areas, if you're stopped, so I would say, like, don't stop in a highway right-of-way, please. Like, use a pullout if you need to, respect private land, all those kinds of things. However, I think that folks who are from this area can set great examples for visitors. So if you have a spotting scope set up, it's sort of it's an indication of like this is a safe distance to people who may not know. And if you're willing to let someone look in your spotting scope, you might be preventing someone from trying to get even closer, you know. So that can be a really nice thing that we can do as more local residents.

SPEAKER_00 57:33

Yeah, I think that's great. The better we can do to reduce the risk of a sandhill crane stabbing with its beak, um, the better. So let's all do our part, everyone.

SPEAKER_03 57:46

So I I'd be remiss without including um locations to observe sandhill cranes in Idaho. Um, it too has a number of wildlife refuges where you are likely to encounter the Santa Crane. But in particular, if you're in Teton Basin, um it is it is ripe with wetland complexes. Um, and again, a great place to hear or observe um this bird, you know, especially it along the the Teton River corridor. But I think one of my favorite places um to spend time observing, listening to Sand Hill Cranes is as you head north towards the island park country, um Harriman State Park and Henry's Lake are two specific locations that um during the breeding season, um I think it's worth worth the stop. Cool.

SPEAKER_00 58:52

Perfect. Yeah, that is one of the cool things about Sandhill Cranes is yes, you can go to these, you know, these wetland areas where, you know, they're hanging out in their preferred habitat. But then I also love like I'll be driving through Bosaman and I go past, you know, a farmland and I just happen to look over, and there's two sandhill cranes right there. So it's kind of special to have these moments with these birds in situations that don't feel like, okay, now I gotta like go all the way out to find these birds. They're just, you know, special to have those moments when they when they arrive. And they have still yet to arrive in Bozeman, and I'm I'm hoping they make an appearance soon. I haven't heard, I will say I haven't heard them yet. They love to hang out around my house. Um, and like it's like we were talking about, I usually hear them before I see them. So nice.

SPEAKER_02 59:42

Yeah, they're here. They're here, I have to imagine, any day. Any day. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:47

Yes. Um I'm on the lookouts. Um so I'd love to ask this question, um, ask this question to all of our guests, and that is who is your conservation or science hero?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:02

Well, it's a that's a challenging question. I'm going to admit right off the bat. Um, and it's very difficult for me to narrow that down to one or two individuals. And I and I did put some thought into this. Um, but here's what where I've landed. Um my conservation heroes are individuals and organizations working to get habitat projects on the ground that benefit breeding, migration, and wintering bird habitat. Um, I've been fortunate over the years to collaborate with so many different partners. Um, I've jumped back and forth between private sector and public sector. Um, and so I mean, these conservation heroes, it's a vast network of committed, current and former coworkers, um, my employers, um, federal, state, local agencies. Um, those partners are so instrumental and have such good institutional knowledge and relationships with landowners, um, especially landowners with a lot of ground in Wyoming in particular. Um you know, I'd I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the nonprofit organizations, um, our our land trust, our regional land trust that um, you know, work through those conservation easements. Um, you know, and in particular, in this moment, in my current position, like Ducks Unlimited is so instrumental into you know getting these projects going on the ground. Um, you know, and I think oftentimes these these projects focus on a keystone species or a specific taxon like the trumpeter swan or you know, dabbling ducks. But what I found over the years is that the reach of these projects always extends to a significant suite of both avian and terrestrial species. Um but yeah, that these folks are my heroes because these these projects, these habitat projects, getting them onto the ground, it's complex. Um from securing the funding, generating the designs, the engineering, the permitting, the implementation, the monitoring, the post-construction adjustments, um always, you know, always require a team of committed individuals. So those are my heroes.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:47

That's really hard to follow. Emmy, I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna lie, because mine is so different than that. But I love that Courtney said it. And I want to just say, too, that one reason why it's so fun to work in the wildlife conservation world, is because I feel like everyone is passionate about their jobs and passionate about wildlife and works hard for good work to be done. So I feel like that's really what Courtney just said. So I love that piece. Mine, um, I you know, I just kind of have to say like the first thing that came to mind, because I don't feel like I thought it out as as well, maybe as Courtney did, um, is going back to a professor who when I was getting my master's degree in biology, a specific professor, Dr. Young, who I had multiple classes with, including biostatistical analysis, which I loved him, you know, but that not for that class. I loved him for the physiological ecology class and what I learned in that class, and how his excitement throughout even teaching, you know, biostat, even his excitement in that, right? But then in this physiological ecology class, his excitement and the way that he put together how the natural world works energetically and the balance just really shifted for me the way that I view the natural world. Like, period. I don't I don't really know how to say it. So he was like a hero to me, I guess, in graduate school and helped kind of get me through graduate school and a mentor to me, even though he wasn't my major professor. Um, Dr. Young at Virginia Commonwealth University. Shout out to you. Um, yeah, so he he's one that comes to mind right away. He's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:37

Well, those are honestly two perfect answers because one of the reasons I love asking this question is because I like to hear, you know, what inspires people in this work that we do. And I always love that I get different answers. You know, people are inspired by professors, they're inspired by their colleagues, they're inspired by like kind of these titans of conservation, the Alder Leopolds and the John Muir's andor, you know, people that grew up with, you know, TV personalities, your David Attenborough, Steve Irwins. Um, and it's so fun to just see how people in our sphere are influenced to do this work that they do, and then what keeps them, you know, inspired to keep doing this work. So um that's the way I always love it. You gave two brilliant answers. Um, and yeah, I just always love to hear this from folks. And I also want to say thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Um, I hope you enjoy talking about sandhill cranes just as much as I did. And I, you know, hope your count goes well coming up. And, you know, I'm just again really grateful that we had a chance to sit down and talk today. Thank you again to Courtney and Renee for stopping by the podcast and sharing all of their Sandhill Crane knowledge. So, listeners, we had a few uh uncertain, unanswered questions throughout the episode. After we recorded, I reached out to Andy Gossins, the Sandhill Crane Project Manager at the International Crane Foundation to get some clarification. With regards to whether a sandhill crane has been recorded dancing on his own, Andy said, While dancing is generally considered a social interaction, either done with a mate or in a flock, I suppose a crane could do it on its own. Dancing can be done as a part of a pair bond or because they're excited, nervous, relaxed, etc. And although I have not seen a crane dance alone to my knowledge, it's possible that something could stimulate them to dance while on their own, such as a gust of wind, something on the ground, or another animal. We also talked about their red cap and if it gets redder when they're feeling defensive. Andy said yes, the red patch on a sandhill crane's, or any other crane species' head, can become brighter, and this generally happens when they are in a negative confrontation with another crane. Finally, I asked him about their fossil record, and he said the oldest confirmed sandhill crane fossil is 2.5 million years old, which does make it older than a lot of other modern day birds. But I'm not sure if it's the oldest modern bird fossil on record. A big thank you to Andy for helping us out. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating and reviewing the Voices of Greater Yellowstone podcasts on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. It only takes a few moments and it helps us expand our reach and share these stories with new listeners. We so appreciate your support. Voices of Greater Yellowstone is a podcast by the Greater Yellowstone Coalition, a conservation nonprofit that works with all people to protect the lands, waters, and wildlife of the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. As always, thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.