Episode 199: The Mindset Shift That Buys Back Your Time

Avoid the mistake of thinking that working harder is the path to freedom, or you will keep trading your time for money while the business stays completely dependent on you.

In this episode of The Wize Way Podcast, Ed Chan sits down with Bren Ward to unpack the real reason most accounting firm owners never buy back their time. It is not a systems problem or a staffing problem. It is a thinking problem. Ed shares the exact withdrawal journey he used to remove himself from every division of his firm, the mindset shifts that made it possible, and why delegation without training is just abdication in disguise.

You'll learn: 

✅ Why working harder is the trap and what balance sheet thinking looks like instead.

✅ The step-by-step withdrawal journey from admin all the way to the board.

✅ Why perfectionism is the silent killer of delegation and how to get past it.

✅ How to see your next hire as an investment, not an overhead.

✅ The difference between delegation and abdication, and why it determines whether you scale.

✅ What AI actually means for your time and the future of your firm.

If you have ever told yourself it is just faster if you do it, this episode will change the way you think about your role in the firm.

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PS: Whenever you’re ready… here are the fastest 4 ways we can help you fix and grow your accounting firm:  

 1. Download our famous Wize Freedom Map for FREE - Find out the 96 projects every firm owner must implement to build a $5M+ firm that can run without them - Download here 

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3. Work with Jamie and our mentors for 8 weeks - Build a custom business plan for your firm - Apply here

Transcript

Welcome And What Freedom Means

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Wise Way. The show for accounting and bookkeeping firm owners who want more time, profit freedom in a business that can run without. I'm Brendan Ward, your host, and each week we deep dive into the real stories, proven strategies, and battle-tested tools from successful firm owners just like you. Our wise mentors want to share their journey of how they've scaled and systemized their way to freedom so you can too. If you're stuck in the grind or you're ready to scale smarter, this is your blueprint. Let's get into the episode. So, Ed, thanks for talking to us today about the hottest topic in the industry, which I think it has been for as long as we started billing time, is time. I don't have enough time. So that's the topic of our conversation today. But um opening thoughts on that without even a question uh to ask you, opening thoughts on what comes to mind on this topic?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

You know, it's interesting that we all have the same amount of time, and yet uh some people achieve so much with the time they have compared to somebody else who with the same amount of time they achieved so much less. And so, you know, what's the difference? Why why can some people achieve so much and and others not not as much? And and uh looking back on my own life, I um I looked at all the things I've done and then I go, wow, how did I have time to do all that? And um, and it was it was an interesting um sort of self-assessment. But you know, if and and I've always said that the the difference between successful people and not so successful people is is is how they how they think about things. And um, and I guess over the years I've always thought about how I can leverage what I was doing. And uh and if you take accounting, for example, you have a choice of either seeing the clients, doing the consultation, or and I call that playing in a PL game, you know, sure you you get you you you you trade your time for money, you get some money for it, or you can invest your time into balance sheet activities, and balance sheet activities will create uh revenue streams and uh from the effort that you put in. Um and it's more about invisible money that you create compared to visible money you create. But then the way you think about things determines how you spend your time, because if you think about trading time for money, you'll you'll you'll stay in consulting to your clients. But if you think about the investment in the balance sheet, then you'll you'll spend time developing systems, teaching people, training staff, um, so that they can deliver the service to the client. So if you were to deliver the service to your client, you might be able to see 100 clients. But if you had five senior client managers delivering to each of them to five clients, and that's 500 clients that you've been able to, you know, reach. Um so I guess it starts with how you think as to where you spend your time, and um, and I guess whether it's instinctive or whether you know I got taught or whether some people do it instinctively. Um, you know, it it some people do it instinctively and others have to be taught.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah, no, I I want to go to the core of it because it, you know, no one seems to be immune uh to this uh apart from the people who finally get it and as you say, um find the the elixir, and then their their success is heavily predicated on the fact that they own their own time and they've found the formula. But where what's the core issue here? Are we not taught how to manage our time properly, or are we um, you know, when we look at owner dependency on on businesses, you know, there's a big chunk of the the debate is you know, we think we need to do everything, so then we don't have any time because we're having to do anything, everything. What for you, when we look at it and boil it right down, what are the core issues with this?

SPEAKER_01 4:49

I guess most of us are uh are reactive, most of us um uh deal with things as they come up, so we're reacting to it. And and when we go to university or we go to school, you know, we're taught to do to be an accountant, to be a lawyer, to to do the task. So we we learn how to do the task. But the task is only limited to the hours in the day, and we're not taught how to leverage that time, we're we're taught how to you know do the work. But that's not where the real leverage is. The real leverage is is teaching somebody else to do the task and developing systems and and training people. That's where the real leverage comes from, but we're not taught to do that. So I guess it's it's um you know, partly we're reactive, partly, you know, our education system doesn't teach us how to think that way.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

So you found yourself in the same predicament, right? Many years ago, you're working 80, 100 hours a week on this business, business that was meant to give you more time and freedom. Um there was a there was a turning point there. Um, and many of the people listening into this or reading this will be in the same predicament that you were in, uh, feeling trapped in their business, feeling like they don't have time for the things that they want to do. But when you're in that predicament, it's very hard, like a fish can't see water, it's very hard to see the way out. So for someone sitting there working 80, 100 hours a week on their business, uh feeling engulfed by it, how do you look at methodically or you know, how do you look at a pathway of getting yourself out of that and working towards this a state of having more time and freedom?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, it wasn't easy. It it started with your mindset. And and you know, I I grew up being taught to work hard, you know, and uh, and you just gotta work really hard. And and I thought that I just have to put in the hours, but then you know, there is only so many hours in the day, and you've you know, once you've hit those hours in the day, just you can't get any more time from anywhere else, and that's it. So you've got to start start thinking smarter, not not not um, not work harder. And I guess um, you know, I drew inspiration from people, um, successful people, um, books. Um, I read a book called Um, you know, the E-Myth by Michael Gerber that changed the way I looked. I had a um a friend that um ran a very large accounting firm, and I ran a very small accounting firm, but I was working three times the hours that he was working, and thinking that was the right way to go. Um, and he he started helping me think about the balance sheet, not the PL. And I wasn't thinking like that. I was just thinking, you know, this is the way I was brought up, work hard, put the hours in. And that kept me, you know, in that in that lane, if you like, of working hard. And until until uh something, you know how they say, you know, if it you if if if the pain isn't great enough, then you don't look for solutions. Um the pain got to an extent where I just I just you know it I just couldn't keep going this way because you know working 80, 100 hours a week is not sustainable long term. And um so typically you do the things like, oh, it must be greener on the other side, oh it must be another and must be another business that's better than this. And I see that with clients, you know, when things get hard, tough, then they just they think that by changing industries that it's it's easier in another industry. But a book that really helped me think opposite to that is that you know, um uh think and grow rich by my top of my by uh Napoleon Hill. He said the gold is in your own backyard, it's it's not in somebody else's backyard, so looking there, look for the gold in your own backyard. And uh and and it was a it was a series of different books and influences that you know taught me to start focusing. Um another one was, you know, you you you're not good at anything until you've done it for 10,000 hours. And uh, and a lot of people get to, you know, 6,000 hours and they jump ship and they really haven't um mastered that task, uh, and then they jump ship and then they start all over again, and then when it gets a bit harder, then they jump ship again. So they keep jumping ship and they never get to that 10,000 hours to until you're really, really efficient and effective at what you do. So it was just a combination of all of that that helped change my thinking and my mindset, and um and and thank goodness, because you know, I would have sold the practice um and jumped into another industry, but not changed how I did things. And uh I would have replicated the exact same problems I had in the new business that I'd go to because I I'm just I hadn't, you know, I I was just addressing the symptoms, not the problem. And the problem was the way I was thinking about the business.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

I think there's a really important point to make because I think it is a trap a lot of us fall into is thinking, well, it's the business, it's the nature of the business. It's an accounting firm, I sell time, so I'm always going to be time struck and not have any time. And many are looking for an out, you know, sell the firm, get out, go and do something different. But time and time again, and it's exactly what you've said, they go to the next adventure venture, and sure enough, they're in the same predicament very quickly on. So that I think the the point on your thinking, unless unless that's addressed, the same symptoms will will rise to the surface, won't they?

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yes, absolutely. And and and you'll you'll hear the same excuses. And uh, you know, I've heard excuses from, oh, you know, I've got different clients to you, you know, and um I can't find staff, and that's the problem. Well, everyone can't find staff, you know. It's it's a it's if I know a very good friend of mine, he's a uh general practitioner and uh he's a doctor, and he said to me, I can't find staff, you know. Your your industry is easy, you can find staff, but I can't find staff. So, you know, and I and I hear that right across the board. But and then I asked him, Well how how how have you tried to find staff? And he said, Oh, it's just ask around and ask friends and all that. No, well, that's not a system. You know, if you're serious about running a business, you've got to have a system of recruiting, not not just do it by by chance, you know, and and you know, system is you've got to, you know, come up with a selection method, how how you select the right person, because you can often select the wrong person, and you've got to you know invest money into advertising, keep an ad in for you know six months, twelve months to to keep bringing in leads, and then you've got to screen them and and have have a recruitment process because often it it you might get the leads in, but your process is wrong and you end up recruiting the wrong person. And you know, so it's so it's not it, it's you know, for those who who who break through that, because every business is faced for that, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, but the ones that um have been able to break through, and it's a mindset thing, you know, they they they put a process in place, they expect it to have difficulties and and so forth, as opposed to the other person who, you know, the first roadblock they come to, they give up, you know, and they say it's hard. You know, so so again, that that's a mindset thing.

The Withdrawal Journey Framework

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah, it's a really interesting thought too, is you know, it's what got us to 80 plus hours, you know, we we're not just gonna get out of that or unravel that easily or quickly. So we have to be willing to go through a little bit of pain, but to have a system there is an important thing. So let's say, okay, we we've gotten to that point where the pain of staying the same, you know, is greater than the pain of change. Um, we've addressed the fact that we need to change our thinking. So let's talk about the system a little bit because you know, we love a good framework here at WISE. Uh, we love a good system to lean on. And one of the systems we've built to buy back time is the withdrawal journey. So you've taught us over the years that we have to systematically withdraw from certain divisions from the business in a certain order. So, um, and that's heavily attached to the seven divisions of the org chart. Um, I just think this provides a lot of clarity on the pathway to buying back time. I think it gives people a step-by-step, you know, methodical approach. So if you wouldn't mind just we don't have to go into super detail, but uh a higher glance view of your system on this would be great.

SPEAKER_01 13:56

Absolutely. And and I've always said it starts with your mindset. So most accountants, me included, are a uh a perfectionist. We we need to have control and we need everything needs to be perfect. So I had to get myself into a mindset where I had to say to myself that if it was done 80% well and done by somebody else is good enough versus it had to be done 100% and it had to be done by me. So if I had to choose between 80% or 100%, but it had to be done by me, then in my mindset I had to accept that 80% is good enough. All right. And the way I got around that is because I I accepted that I was uh more of a a perfectionist, more of a, you know, uh, and and often the clients are not at my perfection level and they they don't want to be. They're just happy to um to to have it done at a particular level.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

And I had to get my mindset down to that so that I can trust that the work is done by somebody else. And and and and and I'm happy and the client's happy with that. And of course, the client was happy with that. You know, it was just it was just all within my own mindset that needed to be done at a particular level. Um, so that's the first thing. And then if you can get over that, which is probably the hardest thing for most accountants to get over, then you've got to then focus on the the the balance sheet, not the profit and loss, which is you've got to teach these people how to do these things because they can't do it on their own. So where you spend your time is important. Do you spend it doing the work or do you spend it teaching someone to do the work? And it's it's much more uh much more of an investment if it's spent on teaching somebody else to do the work. And and the withdrawal pro process that I that I experienced myself is that as you as you grow your firm, you've got to withdraw yourself from certain tasks. And and the first task that I withdrew myself from is from the administration. So you look at it's a balance of cost and training, the effort to train another person and uh and and the availability of the staff. So the the easiest staff, the cheapest staff, easiest one to train up is an admin person. So you bring that person in and they take all the admin administration off your plate. Right. So that's the first first process. And then I I had to think about the wages that I was going to pay this person as an investment, not as a cost or an expense. So that was the other battle I was having. So, you know, as an accountant, I see I saw everything as a cost or an expense, not as an investment. So that's the other thing I had to get over is to see that person I'm hiring as an investment. And um, the way I I convinced myself of doing that, especially with an admin administration person, it's different if it's uh an accountant, because they're actually producing work for you. They're a they generate revenue, right? But an admin person is an overhead. And and the way I um I justified myself that it's an investment is that it allowed me to do more and I can bring in more income. And even after paying their wages, I was ahead. So I had to look at things as not as an expense on its own, but the whole picture. You know, there is expense, yes, but there's income, and you take one off the other, and what you're left with now is you've got to value that. So I I was able to convince myself that that investment allowed me to see more clients, earn more money, and the net effect was I was ahead. You know, so so that's the the first withdrawal uh step. And the second one, of course, was to uh invest into an accountant to do the work. And and that was a little bit easier. Well, it was easier, I think it was harder. It was easier because this person generated income. So it was like a salesperson is generating income. So that was the easy bit. The difficult bit was I was a perfectionist and I needed everything to be done perfectly. And and often it wasn't that the out the actual result was different to mine. It was just the the process of getting to the result was different to mine. And I, because I was the perfectionist, I needed the process to get to the end result to be exactly the way I did it rather than the way they did it. And I didn't focus on the outcome, I focused on the process of getting there. And uh, and my my perfection, perfectionist personality uh kept interfering with a person's way of getting there, despite the fact that the outcome was exactly the same. So that was that was the next step you've got to withdraw from. And of course, you notice that I'm withdrawing from the lowest cost expense item in in the organization. So now I'm I'm left with seeing the clients. And that's the I can charge the most when I see the clients on strategy work and and uh tax planning and that kind of thing and relationship building. So that was the highest value to the organization. So I removed the lowest cost uh expense items, moved it off my my plate and onto somebody else, and then I kept withdrawing to to to then um work further up the value chain, if you like, uh until now I then the next one, that next hardest person is the senior client manager who did who took the role of seeing the clients. So that was an important role because it's a relationship that that the business that we're in is is is about relationships. And now I'm passing the relationship from myself on to another person, and that comes with a a huge amount of vulnerability, um, you know, because the client could get used to the senior client manager. If something happened, the client, uh the staff left, they could take that client, and you know, then there's a whole lot of risk around that as well. So I had to get around that, and then of course, then I I stayed just with the marketing side, because you're as your business uh transitioned from self-employment to a business, then you you when you're self-employed, it's like you're the butterfly catcher and you're you're catching butterflies, you're getting referrals because you're doing the work, it's you, it's your personality that's bringing the work in. But then when when it becomes a business, it's no longer you, you're no longer the butterfly catcher. So you wanted to create a garden that attracts butterflies. So now it's the brand, it's the business that brings the work in. Because you don't want a business that relies on butterfly catchers, because if if the butterfly catcher leaves, then that's the end of your growth strategy. So you need to create a garden that attracts a butterfly. So I I spent time there trying to create a garden that attracts the butterflies. And and and once that was working and leads were coming in and my garden was attracting butterflies, then I can then step back from that. And then I'm just on the board with uh coming to monthly meetings. And the, you know, the organization, the accounting firm was was run by, you know, someone that is now trained up uh as the general manager or the CEO to run that firm. And I just became an investor, investment in it was just an investment to me. Um and it just gave me a passive income. So that's that's the withdrawal journey that um you should be following.

What To Do With Freed Time

SPEAKER_00 21:56

So I love I love that journey, and I I I really like The systematic approach because I think it gives people that clear pathway. It's not without, you know, it's it's simple, but it's not easy. Um I'm moving to the other set other side of the spectrum here. We started talking about that overwhelming inundant inundated 80 plus hours a week. I also think there's a a fear on the other side of that spectrum of okay, if I do free myself up from all this work that I've been doing in the 80 plus hours a week, and I've got nothing to do. I wake up and there's nothing in my calendar. There's a fear around that, which I think stops people from actually getting to that point. So we've so I just want you to address that one because it's not like we are freeing ourselves to a point where we may be working a couple of days a week. It's it's and then we're sitting on the beach for the rest of the week. That doesn't normally end well. Um what are we ultimately, from a mindset perspective, how should we be thinking on the other side of that in terms of what we do with our time?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Sure, look, look, every everybody's different, and and I'll cover the the two situations. But for me, I was quite happy to get to a situation where the firm was running on its own and it was just an investment to me, and I was getting a passive income each month. Now, uh for for those who love what they do and don't want to give that up, then the the wonderful thing is that you can create a business that works so you can decide what what job or what part of you know what do you want to do in that business. So from my experience, most accounting uh accountants uh love the relationship with the client, you know, the consultation and all that. So you could choose to just do that, and uh and that'll give you a lot of job satisfaction. Um and but but everybody's different, you know. Like um, I got to a point where it was running on its own, so I then went and built another business, and I ended up building 10 Channel Nala offices around Australia. Um, and and that's what drove me. But I didn't need to do that. I could have just stayed in my practice and just saw saw clients uh consult it to them as a as a client manager, as a senior client manager. Or I could have just stayed as a CEO in my business and made sure that you know everything was working well. I had to make sure that the training was done, the client managers were trained properly, the production managers were trained properly, and made sure that I recruited the right people to sit in the right seats in that bus. So my my job in building this business is more about building teams rather than doing the technical work, jumping in there and doing the work, is is recruiting people and building these teams, building the marketing so that you know it fed the teams that I was building, and that's how you you leverage it so you could you could grow it that way as well. There's there's so much to do. There's there's the there is it's it's all about doing the things that you love to do.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

You enjoy yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

And for me, the thing that made me happy was uh the things that grew the business. So I I went I I ended up just doing the things that grew the business, and and I was good at doing that. So you know I I went to doing that because that gave me the biggest return on my time. So I looked at everything as a return on my time, and and building the business was was the best way to uh to to in to use my time. But but there is also uh I call it profit and loss and balance sheet, working in a profit and loss statement or working in a balance sheet. Some people talk about you know visible money and invisible money. So an investment you can't see, it's working on your balance sheet, it's it's invisible. But yeah, often people can't see the value in that. So it's a bit like you know, investing in a investment property, you know, the capital growth of it you can't see. And and if you're just focused on the rent that you're collecting, you miss the big picture. So running your firm, it's the same thing. If you're building your your business, um, you know, if you're just looking at the cash flow and the and the profit, and you're not not looking at the balance sheet, then you're missing half the picture. So if you can understand that, you know, if your turnover is going up and the value of your business is going up, your balance sheet's going up, you know, your investment is going up. It's invisible, yes, but it is it's still there. So, you know, just getting someone to think the right way is is is is quite difficult sometimes.

AI And The Future Of Accounting

SPEAKER_00 26:37

It's huge. So I want to end this conversation on uh the current state of the industry where there's a lot of noise around AI and its impact or an impending impact on the the industry. But as you know, we've been told um for as long as time that you know our profession is going to be extinct and uh technology is gonna take over. And with every advent of technology, it's meant to give us all this time back, Ed. We're meant to be much faster and we're meant to be way more efficient, and we should be able to sit with our legs up and let the tech do the work. We're still yet to see that. So I'd just I'd love to get your thoughts on is AI different or does it come back still to that mindset? Like is AI just going to make us busier and have less time or go, you know. I'd just be keen to get your parting thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yes, well, I I I don't um believe that. I I I think that you know, from when I went to university, I was told that don't become an accountant because computers were just coming in back then and I'd be out of a job. And uh, of course, uh computers created more jobs, all right. But all we did was um reduce the the the labor, the the the the you know, the you go from say an abacus to a calculator to a computer. So it's looking, it's reducing the manual labor in that. But ultimately the the relationship with the client was was the most important thing. And AI is part of that, and AI is going to reduce the manual labor as well. So that leaves more time to to to to deal with your with your client, and that makes that relationship uh a lot more um a lot more sort of um healthy. Um I don't think it'll it will ever um get rid of that. I think that yes, the manual labor, the the machines and the computers and the AI will will make that a lot more efficient. Um and yes, we won't need as many accountants to do the the work, but our industry is growing constantly and and every new technology technology produces more opportunities. And uh yes, it will change the nature of of the industry, but but you know, there's there's always going to be um jobs. I mean, I've I've you know been in the game a long time, and uh as long as we you know, as long as our unemployment is below you know five percent, that's full employment. And uh as long as our GDP grows by two and a half, three percent a year, that that increases the pie and that creates the jobs, and we've been doing that. So, you know, our our country has been growing by that level uh every year. And uh and we're always short of staff. I mean, I've never known in my lifetime, despite the fact that you know, with with the technology that's come in, the software like zero, it's made um the manual labor a lot more efficient and the number of accountants that we've needed. We've we've we've uh reduced the number of accountants we've needed, but the business has always grown. There's always we're always short. We can't find enough staff. We can't find accountants, you know. So I've I've never in my whole life, it's it's always, you know, there's just not enough accountants out there um to find. So that's never been a problem. And I don't believe it will be, even with the AI industry coming in.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

So you've you've just touched on something there, which I think would be remiss not to mention, uh, talk about quickly. Um delegation. So, you know, we we've touched on it uh in uh this conversation without explicitly saying it, but delegation is such a fundamental part of um this process of buying back your time. We are we're running a workshop in a couple of weeks um called the the WISE buy back your time method. And a big part of that workshop is around how to properly delegate. So I just love your thought, your parting thoughts on that. And uh if you're happy to give a little plug as to why someone actually should attend that workshop with us at WISE uh in a couple of weeks' time, if they're feeling in any way like they don't have time to uh to do the things they want to do in life.

SPEAKER_01 31:08

Oh, that's a that's an easy one, Britain. If if you want to produce more with less time or with less effort, you know, you need to learn delegation as opposed to abdication. Um, because there's a you know, there's a confusion between delegation, someone delegating and someone abdicating. And um, you know, when you're abdicating, your focus is just on getting that task done. No, well, when you're delegating, you're investing in that person. So you're thinking investment. When you're abdicating, you're thinking PL, better get done as quick as possible, get the outcome, and then move on to the next job. Right. Whereas when you're thinking delegation, you're you're investing in that person, training that person, making sure that that person has the skills in order to do that job better and constantly improving. And and that thinking is is the difference between the two. But but the one that gives you the most um return and allows you to do more with less is delegation. So if you if you can get your mindset around I've got to delegate, not abdicate, then you end up being able to produce more with less with less. And it's such an important part because you you can't scale your business, you can't leverage your business uh if you don't learn the skills of uh delegation. So, you know, I'd encourage everyone to come to it if you want to do more with less.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Brilliant. Ed, as always, it's been uh great to get some of that gold out of your head. So thank you for sharing. And uh, whenever you want to talk about time, you know where to do it because I don't think this challenge is going away anytime soon. But thank you for always being important.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Yes, no, thank you. Thank you for having me. We'll see you in the next one.

Workshop Plug And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 33:07

Yeah, bye for now. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Wise Way. If today's episode sparked an idea or helped you see things differently, please don't forget to leave us a review. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast on your favourite platform yet, please go ahead and do that as well. Let's continue the conversation here through YouTube or any other social platform that you can find us on. And just remember, if you're not a subscriber of our weekly Friday tip newsletter, you can get that to your inbox every week going forward. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, you don't have to do it alone. Let's build a business that works for you the wise way. We'll see you in the next episode.