Episode #21 Dealing with Complacency & Non-Compliance in a Dental Office

Has your office ever been affected by complacency and non-compliance? Not only does it affect the overall spirit of the practice, it impacts safety and compliance with OSHA / HIPAA.  In this episode, the Divas discuss tips and strategies to remove obstacles, empower and challenge team members, and celebrate wins.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome. I'm Leslie Cannon. I'm Mary Gavoni. I'm Linda Harvey.

SPEAKER_03 0:10

I'm Olivia Juan. And together we are the Compliance Divas. Welcome to the Compliance Divas Podcast. We bring clarity and simplicity to compliance by navigating regulatory compliance to keep you on course. Please subscribe to the Compliance Divas podcast through your favorite podcast channel or on our website, thecompliancedivas.com. Any resources that we mention will be available on our website. So this week's podcast, we are talking with our fellow divas about how compliance, noncompliance, complacency affects the overall spirit of the practice and impacts compliance with OSHA and HIPHUP. Yes, it's very frustrating to those in positions of oversight to set a solid foundation of compliance with OSHA and HIPAA, only to see it crumble due to the complacency and lack of adherence of team members. So I'd like to talk with our fellow divas about this timely topic and get input from them on how we can overcome these challenges. Mary, how would you describe complacency? And what are your recommendations based on your experience to overcome it in a dental team?

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Thanks, Olivia, and welcome everyone. Complacency by definition, sort of paraphrasing the dictionary, is a feeling of safety and security, but yet being unaware that there is some danger out there, sort of a c'est la vie attitude. Um I feel okay, nothing's happening to me immediately, therefore I think I'm safe. Some of you may remember back in the late 1980s and early 1990s when we first knew about HIV and we first knew of the very high incidence of hepatitis B among dental professionals and when all the PPE requirements were instituted: gloves, face masks, safety eyewear, and gowns. And in particular with gloves, we heard lots of longtime practitioners say, Well, you know, I've been doing this for 30 years and nothing's ever happened. And my inside voice would always say, Yeah, that you know of, um, because not all of these um safety issues, chemical exposure or exposure to bloodborne pathogens, will necessarily manifest themselves right away. And we've seen a little bit of that with COVID. You know, oh, the incidence of COVID among dental professionals is very, very low. I don't feel threatened. I'm vaccinated, so I'm okay. I don't have to wear my N95 anymore. I don't need to screen people, but we cannot let our guard down as we continue to say. So, how about overcoming? What are things that you can do? Well, the first thing that you have to do with anyone, existing team or new employees, is establish that you have a culture of safety. And um, Leslie and and Linda are going to speak about that a little bit later in the podcast. But that's part of the onboarding process for a new employee or maybe it's a new doctor taking over a practice where some bad habits had developed over the years, that this is the expectation. This is what we do to keep ourselves safe, and what we do to keep our patients safe. And we do that through training. Um, many times, if an experienced employee comes in as a new employee in a practice, they'll say, Oh, well, I've had um OSHA training, I've had HIPAA training before, so I know all this. Well, we don't have any idea how that training was conducted, what the content was. So everyone needs to have a policy that all new employees go through training that is specific to their practice so that you then know what the training content, what was told to them. And you have to have an orientation to what we do, how we do things in the practice. I think it's very, very important for safety issues or any kind of compliance issues, for example, with HIPAA or chemical safety or infection prevention and control to be included in performance appraisals. And we know from a lot of data that comes from our HR experts that performance appraisals are best conducted where the employee evaluates themselves and the employer evaluates the employee or a practice administrator, perhaps. And then we sort of compare notes, but there need to be safety questions, things like do I wear my PPE every time it's required or needed? Um, am I doing everything I can do to protect the integrity of patient information for HIPAA compliance? So performance appraisals are very important. And then we look at checklists. Do we have actually SOPs and safety protocols? And a great example of a checklist, of course, is the CDC infection prevention and control checklist. And then questions specific to that practice can be added to that. And I've become a big proponent, as I'm sure my fellow divas have as well, of competency testing or competency evaluations. So especially when we have employee shortages and we're bringing in people, um, employees into the practice that may have no dental experience, are we evaluating that they understood how to appropriately package instruments, how to seal a pouch, how to seal a wrapped cassette, and so forth. Somebody should be observing them so that they don't then develop bad habits. And it also emphasizes how important those things are. And I think it's important for practice to develop a system to do those performance evaluations and not just for new employees, for existing employees as well, because then that's a great way to identify where we may have become complacent in some of the things. So those are just some suggestions to think about.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Thank you, Mary. Good points there. I was working on site some time ago and I was set up in the employee lounge with my laptop working, and one of the assistants came into the lounge with her contaminated mask and jacket and so forth. And I didn't want to target her and feel offended. So I mentioned, you know, have you thought maybe we should remove contaminated PPE before entering? You know, what's your thought on that? Rather than saying you should. But either way, she was offended. The eye rolling took place, and then she snapped her head, made her hair shake, and obviously she was offended. And I reminded her listen, I don't work for OSHA, I work for you all. And if OSHA were actually here, this would be citable. So it's really tough when we're working with fellow team members or even as consultants, the divas, we run into this quite a bit. And our goal is to reverse that behavior. And Mary, I loved how you mentioned the performance reviews of the employee assessing their performance as well as the employer or management person? That's exactly how we handle it in my firm. It seems to be very effective. So, so those are some great ideas, how we can overcome complacency. Linda, what are your thoughts on how to address non-compliance? When you're working with clients, what are some of the things that you recommend to turn around that behavior?

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Olivia, that's so very important. Thank you for asking. When you think about behavior, it is a behavioral change. And while nobody likes to think of that word change, we sometimes have to use different terminology to win people over, much like that dental assistant that you just described from the client. How do we approach them where they are and help to affect that change and even just maybe tweak it a little bit if we can have them adapt it without thinking that I've got to go through a big change? But when I look at non-compliance, I think about it as a domino effect. You know, something triggers the complacency first. And whether that's a thought process or belief, such as, well, this is the way we've always done it in the past, it's no big deal, or there's just a lack of knowledge, or maybe there's a short timer attitude by either the doctor or a team member. Well, I got retirement in the back of my mind, or um, we're gonna be moving soon. I don't need, you know, I'm just a temporary person here, whatever that is. But something triggers complacency. And then the complacency leads to non-compliance, and that is going to trigger accidents, injuries, uh, complaints, fines, and all kinds of things on the other end. So there's really about three or four things that I would say can help to promote compliance in dental practice. First is let's remove the obstacles, let's let's remove barriers that are in the way so that anybody that doesn't know or wants to be more compliant and they truly all care about their patients, that's why we came into this profession, is let's make sure that a team has adequate training. So, for example, if a dental practice has been watching the same DVD or has the same training year after year, is it does it ever get freshened up? Um, and then secondary, what are the tools and supplies that somebody needs to be compliant? Do we have adequate um just taking PPE or all the different sterilization supplies and whatnot? Do we have everything we need to be compliant in those areas? And do we have the right compliance tools from the perspective of how old is your binder? How old are the policies and procedures? What kind of PowerPoints do you have for training in the office? What kind of ancillary resources? What kind of current checklist? As Mary mentioned, the CDC's checklist for infection control. That's one of the major key points that somebody can use in a practice. So looking at those tools are very important. And then how do we empower and challenge people? That would be the second area that I would look at. Always tell team members that they're really the leader in their own role. We know the doctor or doctors are the leader of the practice as the owners of the practice, but each person in their individual role is the leader as well. So if there's something going on in your operatory or with your patient at that moment, you should feel comfortable enough to speak up and say something. It reminds me of the motto of the airlines: if you see something, say something. So whether it's an OSHA issue or HIPAA, suppose that patient is bringing out their phone and they want to snap photographs and you don't want to be in the photograph, or you see that they're too close to getting a capturing a picture of the um caliph, the pardon me, the schedule there on the caliph on the computer right there. So whatever it is, we need to be able to speak up and talk about it. So the discomfort comes from the team members who aren't comfortable speaking up and raising a concern or even a question, like the way you said you phrased it to that dental assistant, Olivia, raising a question without fear of being criticized. And sometimes there's one or maybe two people on the team that have a more dominant personality or more vocal personality, and that can be intimidating to other folks to be able to raise a concern. So that needs to be looked at by the doctor and the office manager, and how to empower teams so you can challenge them to come up with new ideas and different tips and so forth. And then the next thing is for the leadership, the doctor, the office manager, or in a larger group settings, the management team to demonstrate, to model the outcome that you want. Model the behavior that you want. If you are saying the management team in a larger practice and you're you know flitting in and out of clinical areas and sterilization, and you're not being respectful of the cross-contamination in the back, then you're not modeling a behavior. Or if the doctor is wearing his or her mask below their chin, like we've seen for years, and it just drives us all crazy, I know. Um, how do what's the behavior that you're modeling? So you can be sure that you you you help to promote that in your team members members as well. It's like the old thing you hear from parents, you know, you can't tell your children, do as I say, not as I do. We've we've all heard that motto when we've been growing up, right? So so demonstrate the attitude that you want. And if and if it's not the attitude of the practice to put some importance on annual training and put compliance and safety first, then it's hard to have that mirrored in the team members. And last but not least, Olivia, I think the another thing is to celebrate those wins. You know, I think about the posters that some of these um national companies sell. And I'm thinking of one in particular that talks about the number of days without an accident. And so while that may not seem applicable in dental practice, because some of those posters are huge and there's not enough space to put them up in our small break rooms, I think about this from other industries like the transportation industry. How many days has this company gone without a trucking accident, for example? So, how can we adapt that to dentistry and celebrate those wins and make it fun, whether it's um just, you know, a bulletin board with information and or you know, gift little gift cards or just little fun candies, trinkets, whatever it could be. It doesn't even have to be anything tangible, just to be the recognition of team members bringing new ideas and tips and articles and uh and just making it fun from that perspective, Olivia. So those are some ways that I would say uh team members can begin to address non-compliance in their practice.

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Linda, those are some great tips. I love how you pointed out that people can be the leader of their own role and also modeling the behavior that we want out of fellow team members. So that's some really good points. Leslie, what can you share with us about retraining and discipline if it gets to that level?

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Well, first, before I go into discipline, I have to say that Linda's comment about celebrating the wins, um, little gift cards, trinkets, it's the recognition. And, you know, you when you if a management book from many years ago said, catch people doing something right instead of catch people doing something wrong. And so I love the idea of a dental practice, maybe having, I don't know, a gift card for a coffee house or for an ice cream or for movies and an announcement uh sometime maybe during the morning huddle. Hey, yesterday Susie noted that our sharps container was over the fill line, and that could be an OSHA violation for us. And I want to commend Susie for uh having uh quick thinking to bring that to our attention and to take care of the problem. I'm going to award her with this uh $10 gift card or these passes to a movie. And so, everyone, please be on your guard no matter how small uh or insignificant something seems. Let's uh bring that to each other's attention so we can prevent uh these little uh uh possible OSHA citations or even HIPAA violations from occurring again. So, with that being said, we all love to be recognized for doing the right thing, but what happens when we do the wrong thing? And uh, you know, I would suggest that training be an ongoing uh part of a dental team. I know that uh many offices will skip the annual blood-borne pathogen training or will, you know, send their team to a meeting once in a while, but it really needs to be on a regular basis, just like CPR. I know we all know CPR and we could we could probably do CPR uh you know blindfolded and backwards because we have that training that's required every two years. But uh sometimes we forget some of the things we're supposed to do when it comes to complying with OSHA or complying with HIPAA. And so again, regular training and making that training fun uh when someone is not on top of uh the right steps, in other words, uh consistently forgetting to um to comply with OSHA regulations, maybe um not uh not doing something about a uh a chemical spell properly, or uh when it comes to HIPAA, uh maybe uh speaking about a patient in front of others where that private information may be shared unknowingly. Uh the first step would be to confront the person and tell them uh what it was that you observed that was in violation of regulations or was a safety hazard. And if it happens again, then you have to really write something up as a uh a paper trail that you have advised the employee or coworker if that's the case. Maybe you're supervising others, and then now we have something in that is documented in their employee record. And well, let's say that complacency still continues, and that person continues to uh misstep or or uh violate HIPAA, and so at that point, we really need to take action to make sure that that person understands the gravity of what their error is and how that could impact the practice, either from a safety or from a privacy issue. So that's where I came up with a great idea of the book report. And the book report would be, for example, I would uh have the employee who uh has violated a patient's privacy uh read the notice of privacy practices, which I think very few of us ever do. We know we have it, we give it to our patients, but but how often do you come across teams that are familiar with what it is we're telling our patients we'll do with their protected health information? So reading the notice of privacy practices and then come back with your three biggest takeaways and share with us at our next morning meeting what it is that you thought was the three most important things we should know about the notice of privacy practices that we provide to a patient. So a book report might help reinforce the uh the rules, the regulations, and then sharing that with the group helps everybody. Um and then if someone continues to uh violate either privacy or safety uh policies of the practice, at that point it's a harsh step, but it might make an impact that someone would get suspended without pay. And I know that for myself, uh, when I worked as a dental assistant, every single day that I worked was important in my paycheck. And if I missed a day, it impacted me in my uh financial budget. It hurt. So I made every effort to make sure I got to work no matter what. And if someone told me I was suspended for my own actions of not following the safety policies of the practice, I think that would really turn me around. I might be a little angry about it, but I think that would prevent me from doing that same, uh committing that same offense again. And of course, finally, uh termination would be possible. OSHA puts the responsibility on the employer to furnish each and every one of their employees employment that is uh a place of employment that's free from recognized hazards that are causing or likely to cause death or serious uh harm to employees. So when it comes to OSHA and safety issues, if someone's, let's say, refusing to wear the proper eyewear, they're in violation of the safety policies. And so employers have to comply with occupational safety and health standards. And each employee, believe it or not, OSHA says employees have to comply with the safety and health standards, all the rules and regulations and orders that are issued by the general industry clause. So it puts some responsibility on the employee to follow the employer's safety policies. Now, uh, one other point OSHA makes is that while employees can't be cited, uh, an employer would definitely be cited for an employee's misconduct. And the only way out of that for an employer would be if the uh conduct was either unknown to the employer or was in violation of adequate work rule, which was effectively communicated to the employee and uniformly enforced. And that includes disciplinary action, maybe remedial action, like you know, the book report. Um, and that way the employer is proactive in controlling the conditions. So uh it would be uh an employer would be hard pressed to demonstrate that they have been proactive in preventing uh behavior that is unsafe or or inviting. Violation of regulations if they have no record of having conducted any training. So that's where I believe we can help people on the retraining and disciplinary action. But I did want to, before I leave this, talk a little bit about performance reviews. And performance reviews are such a great tool for not only the employer, but the employee as well. I remember from my own employer performance reviews, my employer told us in advance that our performance reviews were separate than our salary review. So it had nothing to do with whether we would get a raise. And so that put the money part out of it. And the other thing that they told me is that when we do the performance review, the first thing we'd like you to do is tell us the areas that you think you need to improve on. Because I think everybody really knows in their own heart when they're not quite up to par or when they're skipping steps or when they're complacent. So my employer was so smart in that he made me come up with the things I felt I needed to improve on. Instead of him having to point out the areas that he observed, I had the opportunity first to bring that to the table. And of course, whenever I bring a problem to the table just for myself, I always try to bring a solution. So my employer had prompted me back in those days. Well, you know, okay, so we noticed that you're not fond of wearing uh safety glasses, Leslie. So what would be a potential solution for that? And uh, you know, I could come up with ideas. Well, the type of safety eyewear that I have slips off my nose or it's bulky or something, you know, whatever the reason was. And so another solution would be maybe I could look at a catalog and see if there are other options for safety eyewear that would be more comfortable for me. And so, you know, if we can make it a two-way conversation, everybody wins.

SPEAKER_03 24:09

Thank you for that information, Leslie. Some really, really good tips there. And I would like to supplement some points to what you were saying. I always encourage groups to understand their level of authority. So it may be that the safety coordinator or the privacy security officer observes some behavior that is not acceptable, but they might not have the authority to do anything about it. So we need to understand what is that chain of command? Would the safety officer go to an office manager or practice administrator, or do they go directly to the dentist or a director to find out how do we properly reverse this behavior? And a lot of times it's a lack of knowledge, and it may be that we have to provide retraining, as you mentioned. They may not know, or they didn't realize that this practice takes the rules very seriously, and whatever guidance CDC has published, they may have come from a different practice that was more relaxed in following guidance and rules. So I think these are all really great points to help our listeners deal with complacency and non-compliance. Mary, have you ever had a client that you had to talk about termination of an employee because they continued to be non-compliant?

SPEAKER_02 25:38

Oh, I've seen it happen many times over my um 30 years of of compliance consulting. Um, but termination really needs to be the um the last resort or the the last in the chain of of what we do for disciplinary action. And you have to have given that employee an opportunity. And I love Leslie, your your um um exercise on doing the book report. I've done that as well. When some, especially when someone's challenged me, you know, who says that I have to do this? Well, here's the OSHA standard. What I'd like you to do is read it and find where it says that you do have to do it. And then they will come back and say, Oh, I didn't know that. So there needs to be a paper trail of some kind that's documenting what might be leading up to that termination that you've been um disciplined or you've been cited numerous times for not wearing um safety glasses. And now you have an eye injury. And why did that happen? What is it about those safety glasses that you didn't like or you didn't wear? You have to give an employee every opportunity to make it better. And if they choose not to, then as some of us were chatting earlier before the podcast, that you invite them to be part of a different dental team that doesn't value safety as much as you do. That clearly we've given you the opportunity, we've tried different PPE or whatever the situation is, we've retrained, we've given you resources, and you're still choosing to put yourself at risk and you're choosing to put the practice at risk of some type of liability. So yeah, I've seen some employers really take a stand. Now, in most of those cases, the employee decided that, okay, you really mean this. And so I guess I will do this because I want to keep my job, but some of them just chose to leave that, you know, well, if it's really going to be that way. So something to consider when you're interviewing new hires, whether you're the office administrator or you're the doctor employer, that you ask questions related to safety. So, um, how do you feel about the need to wear this type of PPE in these situations? Well, I don't think it's very important, or oh, I always want to do that. That's going to give you some clues as to whether this is going to be a complacent employee or a cooperative employee. Um, and asking, you know, are there any situations where you felt unsafe in your previous employment setting related to safety or infection prevention? Those types of questions would be good ones in an interview. But again, if the an employer feels the need to terminate someone because of safety violations, then you need to protect yourself. And Olivia, you can address this as well, to protect yourself from either a whistleblower claim or um some type of wrongful discharge litigation, you need to make sure that you document well the number of violations that went up to that. Although I do have uh a client that at one point um had uh an employee who did something that put a patient at such risk. And from an infection um prevention standpoint, and it was a patient with um a compromised immune system and a whole bunch of comorbidities. And the doctor felt that this was grounds for termination, that it was a blatant violation of safety protocol, and they did terminate them on the spot for that. And the the employee tried to file unemployment, it was not successful because of what happened. And the employee also tried to sue the doctor for wrongful termination and did not win because not only were there witnesses, but there were so many mitigating factors and something that was so blatantly wrong that they did that it held up. So I think it depends on the situation a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

I totally agree, Mary. Having that paper trail is very, very important to defend a possible claim. And it's very unfortunate that sometimes it does result in termination of employment. But when it comes to a disciplinary policy, the goal should be to address the behavior by ensuring that the employee understands what the hazards are in the first place, and that they really understand that there's consequences of working in an unsafe manner that you have identified. So we need to implement discipline only as a consequent of an employee becoming a repeat offender or being insubordinate. So I think all of the divas agree that training is critical to turn that behavior around early. So we don't have to resort to termination. Leslie, what suggestions do you have to help dental teams build a culture of safety and protection of their data?

SPEAKER_00 31:19

Well, I'll tell you that safety culture is so important. And when team members have that culture, they just emulate it and the patients see it. And it's important to feel confident that you're doing the right things. Uh, the checklists that were mentioned earlier in the podcast help you to know what your boundaries are, the retraining helps to reinforce the concepts of safety and protection of patient data. And really, every single patient that comes to a dental practice deserves a safe and secure dental visit every single time. So when we talk about infection control and uh a COVID-19 transmission and uh proper PPE and uh appropriately disinfecting surfaces and properly sterilizing instruments, we are in fact creating that culture of safety and infection prevention for our patients. And the culture itself is uh again, part of that is something that that is just intrinsic. Uh if we're if we're operating and performing the steps properly, we're taking the right steps, we know it, uh, we feel it, our team members feel it. And the only thing that sometimes can put a little bit of a crimp in that is occasionally we make a mistake, and we're humans, right? So uh I might get busy and I'm I'm uh talking with a patient and I get involved in the conversation and forget a step. So a coworker might see, for example, that, oh, I Leslie forgot to uh to put on her mask, and there she is working with a patient. Well, now, you know, I was so busy learning about that patient's uh exciting event. They had a wedding, we were talking, I was enjoying the conversation and I forgot to put on my mask. So instead of uh a coworker approaching me and saying, Leslie, you are not wearing your mask. What are you thinking? Um, if they approach me, maybe tag me on the shoulder, pull me out of that treatment room and say, Hey, I think you forgot to put on your mask. My job is to say, thank you for bringing that to my attention, instead of getting defensive. If I get defensive over someone calling me out on a misstep, that person is never going to call me out again because they aren't going to want to deal with the wrath of Leslie. However, if I thank the person for letting me know that I made a mistake, they're going to feel that I'm approachable. And they can tell me again, if they see something else that I do, if I forget to disinfect the treatment room after a patient, or if I forget to clean my instruments before I package them and they catch that, then I'm going to be grateful or appear to be grateful that they told me, as opposed to being angry that they caught me doing something wrong. So that's part of how each and every person can make it safe for others in the practice to approach them and then others feel safe to do that as well.

SPEAKER_03 34:32

That's great information, Leslie. I I love your spirit and what you shared with us. Linda, we would like to hear from you as well on what you do to suggest a culture of safety and protection of data.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

Well, I think Leslie had some great ideas, Olivia. And I'd like to offer one tip. We create a compliance binder for our clients. So that way they could, it's a compliance, it's a called quality insurance binder. And they can track all the different measures in a practice where they're taking care of all the monitoring and the testing and the checking, all the different checklists. So we recommend that to create some accountability with that role and to have that binder come to the monthly team meetings so they can spend just a couple of minutes talking about those processes and ensuring that they're done. Now, granted, if some emergency arises, let's say they get a failed autoclave test back, you're not going to wait to the monthly meeting to discuss it. You're going to address it, of course, immediately. But it's just a great reminder to that there's an accountability. So it closes the loop on the communication that there's been delegated duties for team members to uh test the water lines, to monitor the sterilizer, you know, monitor the ultrasonic solution, all the different areas of safety. Um, and that comes together with that. And so also to think about, you remember a book that was published a number of years ago called The One Minute Manager? So to play off of you know tips that you all have shared so far, Divas, yeah, let's let's have that one-minute team tip. You know, I think everybody's touched on that. So that one-minute team tip could be in the daily meetings where there's that just that recognition. And um, there's so many cute sticky notes and little posters and little, you know, um clever signs that can be put up on a bulletin board or given out. So this just makes it so fun that people can uh each the team members can then focus on something good and bring that levity that we all need and and bring compliance into that because it's been a difficult year and a half for all of us in dentistry and all of healthcare and in throughout, you know, all industries. So this just adds that fun and kind of makes work a fun place to be again.

SPEAKER_03 36:43

So true, Linda. So true. Mary, uh, can you share some points with us as well?

SPEAKER_02 36:48

Absolutely. Um, it occurred to me as we're going through all of this information today that we've been focusing primarily on employees being complacent. And we haven't really addressed what could be sort of the elephant in the room that maybe it's the employer who's complacent about compliance, that it's, you know, safety's not their number one issue. And they have that attitude of, ah, I've been doing this for so long, nothing's ever happened. So that's probably a whole nother conversation, but something that I think team members need to really take note of, especially now that we're dealing with still dealing with this pandemic, that if you really don't feel that the level of compliance in your practice is where it should be, or that the level of complacency is really high, then if there is some way that you can effect some change through um instituting a culture of safety or just influencing, and somebody mentioned it earlier about you lead by your example, that that you have to walk the talk, then I think you need to make a difficult decision that if you feel at personal risk and you can't support the that culture of ignoring safety, then maybe that's not the right dental team for you to be a part of.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

That's a good point, Mary. Thanks for bringing that up. Our goal is to promote successful compliance with regulatory authorities and develop that culture in the individual practices that we work in or we serve. And I think all of the divas have pointed that out really well. But we really care about people and we want them to succeed in whatever their job position is. And we also sympathize with those serving in the position of safety officer, privacy officer, security officer. It's one more thing that they have to do in addition to their primary role in a dental office. So we want to be respectful and mindful that they're doing what they have been asked to do. And the more we adhere to those guidance, uh, guidelines and regulations, the more successful we will be individually, as well as our practice. So this has been a great topic, divas, to share with our listeners about overcoming complacency and non-compliance in a dental office. As the compliance divas, we bring clarity and simplicity to compliance by navigating regulatory compliance to keep you on course. Please be sure to subscribe to our podcast at the compliancedivas.com or you can go to your favorite podcast channel. We'll be looking forward to working with you and preparing more content. That's all for now. Thank you.