[00:00:00] Serena: I have a great guest for you today. If you've never heard of Ms. Geraldine, Carter, she is a business coach for CPAs. Who also is host of the business strategy for CPAs podcast? She helps you get off the tax hamster wheel, her clients routinely add multiple five figure engagements to their books within the first few months of working together while spending less time at the office. 

[00:00:26]  I was so excited. When Geraldine's team pitched her for my podcast. Because I am a huge fan of her podcast and I knew that she would be able to bring so much value to you as a listener. So, although she works. Pray merrily with CPAs. She also works with other accountants in the strategies and coaching she provides is also super valuable for bookkeepers, especially so many of you who do have a CPA license. And are choosing not to go the tax route or the accounting firm route and are providing. Bookkeeping and consulting for your clients. So in today's conversation, we are chatting about how to communicate your value more effectively. While tying it into package pricing. We are talking about how to reprice underpriced clients. 

[00:01:16] Why working on your confidence is key and making more money and she shares three roles in a business that you could be filling for your clients. I'm so excited for you to listen in on this conversation. I love doing interviews with people like Geraldine. And I love being able to bring you this valuable content. So without further ado, let's jump in.  

[00:01:39] 

[00:02:08] Serena: Thank you, Gerald Dean so much for coming on my podcast today. As we were talking before we hit record, we probably should have just recorded that whole conversation, but I am a huge fan of your podcast. So would you mind telling the audience what your podcast is? And so they can go find it as well? 

[00:02:26] Geraldine: Sure. So thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here. And my podcast is the business strategy for CPA's podcast, where we talk exclusively about business strategy and very little about actual tax. 

[00:02:38] Serena: Yeah. What I love about you and your podcast is that you're actually not a CPA, but you work with a lot of 'em. And even though the title has CPA in it, it doesn. It applies to bookkeepers other accountants, anyone who's really working closely with business owners. So, anyway, so today I think we're going to talk about communicating your value, which I, I believe is something people definitely need to continuously hear about from different perspectives and how to communicate that and how to see it. It's something I definitely struggled with early on in my business because when you lack the experience of working with multiple clients, it's hard to know what people value. So do you wanna dive into that? 

[00:03:25] Geraldine: Sure. Yeah. I think this is such a helpful topic for this audience because we're numbers people. And like you said, at the top, I'm not a CPA. Never have been, never will be never wanted to be, but I am. By academic training and engineer. So I can handle all the numbers and the formulas in the math. And I love the specificity and having one right answer and being able to predict things and so on. So value of course, for people like us is a nebulous concept that we have trouble pinning down. And for CPAs, accountants, bookkeepers, who are in business for themselves, they need to understand this concept of value and really ground it because where your money comes from is in the creation of value. So the less you understand about value, the less money you'll be able to create. 

[00:04:18] Money does not come from your delivery of P and LS and balance sheets and other kinds of reports. At the close of the month, it comes from the value that you create for your client, which often for them is going to be increased clarity about their financials and a better ability to make higher quality decisions, because they understand where the money has come from and where it's going and how much they need to create, and so on. 

[00:04:40] So, I talk about value as if you wanna kind of wrap your head around it the same way that time is this abstract concept that we use our watch to capture and measure value is this abstract concept. And we use price to measure and capture in a similar way. 

[00:04:57] So the places that I think. Bookkeepers accountants underestimate the value that they can provide is in the communication and conversation around the numbers, really helping your business owner understand their financial situation, what they need to do. And in the quality of the experience that they're having, right? Your clients are having an experience while they work with you. It's not like you're going to Disney, which is totally an experience unto itself, but nonetheless, your client's having an experience. And that experience is how, you know, when they talk to you, how often they talk to you, the quality of the communication. Is it clear communication or do they have to email you back and forth and play email tennis you? Cuz they don't understand. Do they have to wait 10 days or three weeks to get a reply from you? So all these things, like, is it easy for them to contact you and how long does it take to get answers? All these things play into the value that you provide. So really getting a handle on what those things are that your clients value and then working to improve them over time. 

[00:06:04] Serena: Mm. Okay. So something came up for me as you were talking about that. And so I'm gonna play devil's advocate here, but what do you, so I see a lot of business coaches and other people in the business world talking about like removing. So much access to you and not doing so much one on one. So how do you, how do you balance that with, I have my own perspective on this. Sure. But do you balance providing all that value and giving a super awesome experience with also not working as much? 

[00:06:37] Geraldine: Okay. So there are a couple things baked in there, So 

[00:06:41] Serena: They're in for a loop 

[00:06:42] Geraldine: No, no, no. It's all right. I'm just gonna break it down into multiple pieces. Right? Cause so for the fast access, quality communication, clear communication being available that comes at a premium price. You don't offer that in your bronze package, your bronze package is the devil's advocate piece of how do I remove the access, right. So I recommend to my clients, especially when they're transitioning out of old traditional pricing structures to go with bronze, silver, gold, cuz it's so simple. Right? And in the gold package, that's where you put the V I P white glove platinum experience and you have fast access, cPA gets back to you really quickly, either by the end of the day or within within 48 hours. But it's in the bronze that you deliver the P and L and you send them a loom video, just, you know, a five or 10 minute loom video, walking them through their P and L and whatever sticks out to you. So that's how you have both at once, but not for the same person and certainly not at the same price. 

[00:07:44] Serena: Mm. Awesome. Great. Now that we have that cleared up 

[00:07:49] Geraldine: and I can keep going, if you want on what we're talking about right now is still one to one work and. Once you fill with your one-to-one work. In fact, before you fill with one-to-one work, I would argue that at 80% of capacity that's when you step back and you ask yourself, do I wanna continue with one-to-one work and hire people in order to grow? Or do I want to veer off into the right handling and do one to many work and scale with digital products and courses and eBooks, which is a whole different business model.

[00:08:19] It gets you out of the one-to-one work altogether over time. And that's another way to remove. It's just a choice of whether or not you wanna grow by, like, I have thick of it. Like if you have lots of airplane passengers who, and you only have a certain number of planes, you, you grow by adding more planes and then you fill each plane and you add a pilot, which is your staff person. That is one way to grow. But a higher margin way to grow is the digital space. You have this other niche in the creative. So I know, you know what I'm talking about. Mm-hmm 

[00:08:51] Serena: yeah, yeah, absolutely. Gonna play devil's advocate again. 

[00:08:55] Geraldine: yeah, please. 

[00:08:56] Serena: If you have so many people coming to you and you're getting at capacity and, and you have a niche, this is really only possible, if you're serving a niche in bookkeeping or accounting and you're wanting to go into digital products, you have to have that audience basically so if you don't have the people already coming to you or knowing what you do and wanting to work with you, you have to then instead of doing one on one work, you're gonna be spending your time marketing yes. So totally wisely 

[00:09:23] Geraldine: yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad you brought up because I, in this space, we don't talk. This is not a conversation that's being had in the accounting space is an audience. What is an audience? What do you do with an audience? Why should you have an audience? How do you grow an audience?

[00:09:37] This is why I say the business model is a totally different business model. When you hit 80%, you decide if you wanna make veer off to the right, because it is a different business model. And what it requires is understanding. Marketing understanding pain, the pains, the dreams, the fix of your buyers in a scaled way.

[00:09:54] And you lift out of doing one-on-one accounting work and your business becomes about how do I provide expertise and support in a one to many. Model. Yeah. Which lifts you out of doing the accounting work? Yeah. So it's just a different business model as all. So like you say, which way do you wanna grow either? You're gonna learn how to do marketing on the one hand, or you're gonna learn how to manage staff on the other. So choose wisely. Yeah. 

[00:10:21] Serena: yep. That was gonna be my other comment. Or you're gonna have to become a leader. 

[00:10:24] Geraldine: exactly. 

[00:10:25] Serena: You have to learn positions of leading. You're just 

[00:10:28] Geraldine: it's. Yes. 

[00:10:29] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:10:30] Geraldine: Yeah, the other one is like, how do I become a manager of people and lead people?

[00:10:35] Serena: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Both. Very challenging. 

[00:10:38] Geraldine: mm-hmm 

[00:10:40] Serena: So, um, so I loved your analogy of the, when you were talking about. Communicating the values to potential clients. And can we dive a little deeper into, like with an example of maybe someone is raising their prices and they're working on presenting or positioning their value to an existing client versus a new client.

[00:11:05] Would the conversation be different with. Positioning yourself to a new client or an existing client taking away just the discomfort, the conversation itself. Would it be the same with an existing client that you're raising prices on? Or, and I don't even know the answer to this. I, it just kind of like popped into my head. 

[00:11:24] Geraldine: Okay. So let's assume a couple things. Let's assume that the client, the existing client is in the same niche as the new client, let's assume that the revenue of the existing client is the same as the revenue of the new client. So in that case, the only thing that's gonna be different about the conversation is how you lead it off, how you kick it off for the existing client, which is if you've been underpricing them and you haven't been offering them the value in the higher level services that they've been wanting and hoping for. It's a little bit awkward for the provider, because they've been missing out on providing a high level service that the buyer has wanted to buy. So. The lead in is something like, Hey, your business has been growing. We're offering higher level services to our clients who are growing. And we we have a service that you may find beneficial and valuable. Would you like to hear about it? And then what you talk about in terms of your bronze silver, gold platinum packages would be the same as for the new buyer who comes in. You ask them about what they're trying to accomplish, what goals they have, what they're looking to create. And then you would lead into the similar part from the existing client, which is we have these three tiers of services, which of these makes the most sense to you. So you're gonna bypass saying we haven't had these services before, but you've gotta like get them up to speed. Yeah. So after that, it's the. 

[00:12:51] Serena: What if you've been, cause I, I know this is common for a lot of my students, because some of us are CPAs that decided to just kind of do bookkeeping on the side, but we can't help ourselves yeah. With providing more value . So what if you've been providing that extra value in a very unstructured way? I'll caveat that very a ad hoc but you have been providing that value without charging for. They're basically paying what anyone would pay for bookkeeping. 

[00:13:21] Geraldine: Yeah. So this is a little bit of a sticky situation because you're not in the power position in this situation. Right. So basically what you're saying is you've been providing all this value, but not charging for it and giving it away for free. And now you want charge for it, but you're call client. Isn't gonna love that. Right. Or so that's one situation. So. If that's the situation you're gonna go in that conversation, knowing that they might walk.

[00:13:44] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:13:45] Geraldine: And that's just the reality, the question that you need to ask yourself as the seller, as the CPA is, am I willing to keep this client on for lower prices? Or do I wanna open up? I might have to reconcile my own self on the inside, but the fact that they're gonna walk, but that's okay, because I'm gonna open up the seat for somebody else. Who's gonna come in and full price. 

[00:14:03] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:14:04] Geraldine: The other possibility. Is that your client knows that they've been underpaying you for a long time and they have misgivings about it. They feel some amount of compunction about it because they know that you're providing a ton of value. And you're undercharging by a factor of three. In which case you come to them and you say, Hey, look, I've been pivoting my services. I'm going to be going forward, offering this bronze, silver gold at these levels. Which one do you wanna step into? I always recommend in this case, putting their old price. In between the bronze and the silver, that way they can downgrade if they want to. But if you pack the silver in the gold, they're most likely to upgrade into silver and gold, and hopefully they will choose to upgrade into silver and gold and stay with you and continue to be a delighted client at a higher price. 

[00:14:49] So I see a mix, honestly, in practice of what happens. Some clients like half of them step, I don't have, I don't keep numbers on this. Right. But some of them will step up into silver and gold and other ones. It just feel like if you've been under charging and giving away too much for too long and your client's price sensitive, they might walk. Yeah, and that's just business. Okay. It's like cost of doing business. It's the cost of our own learning curve. So you learn for the next time not to under price people for years and years and years, and then you don't make that mistake again. 

[00:15:18] Serena: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One thing that sometimes works for people that I've seen. I don't know if I've actually tried this, but I've seen other bookkeepers do this to where it's sandwiched in between the two packages and they let the client know, like, this is actually what service you're getting, but I'm not gonna bump you all the way up to that all at once. We're gonna kind of like over time transition. Do you see that working as well?

[00:15:42] Geraldine: Totally. You can totally stairstep your clients up. Yeah. And it's helpful to show them where they are relative to where other clients are coming in at. And the other tactic that you can do in addition to stair, stepping in is you can grandfather over time and you can say, look, you've been getting a great deal.

[00:15:58] I'm happy to keep you on at this price for the next, you've gotta decide based on your own business three months, six months. But by November 1st, we're gonna start stepping you up so that you can get caught up to where you ought to be. So there are a lot of ways that you can do this, and I've just written I'm in the middle right now of writing a email series to my list on seven ways to raise your rates on existing clients, there are seven ways to do it at least seven. So you have lots of options. It just depends on who your clients are, where they're at, what conversation you're comfortable having. And I'm sure we can link to it for listeners who wanna get it. It's one of my lead magnets. 

[00:16:35] Serena: Yeah. And with that too, could you do a different, one of the different seven different, one of the seven ways. Each different client, right? So if you have seven clients that you're trying to raise prices on, depending on their personalities, their price sensitivity, all those things. You don't have to do the same thing across the board, which is where I think a lot of people get hung up or doing a massive price increase on all of their client base at once.

[00:17:00] Geraldine: Yeah. And this is one of those, it depends answers. Like how many clients do you have? Do you have 500 clients or do you have 50 or do you have 15? Right. So if you have 15, you can do a one by one approach and just ask yourself, okay, where is this client? And just imagine them, and imagine the conversation playing out, ask yourself what's best for your business. What's best for the client and go from there and then pick one of the tools. , but if you have 500, it's gonna be a different approach. Right. And you're probably gonna put people in buckets and do letters, you know, batches of 50 at a time just to see what the response is and so that you don't totally like shoot your business in the foot.

[00:17:33] Serena: Yeah, absolutely. So before we hit record, you were talking about. How you pay different consultants and coaches within your business at different levels for different results. So can we dive into that whole thing? Yeah, yeah. 

[00:17:52] Geraldine: Yeah. Tell me where you wanna start. 

[00:17:53] Serena: Well I think it ties into, the value conversation for sure, I mean, do you wanna dive into like the numbers that you shared or how levels, whatever you wanna do, you don't have to share specific numbers if you don't want to, and then we can talk about like how they positioned that and the results in you.

[00:18:11] Geraldine: So I'm happy to be transparent about numbers. I just feel like there's not enough transparency about our numbers and financials in our businesses. So I make 300,000 as a coach margins when one on one in the high sixties, early seventies going to group, they drop into the thirties, cuz that's what happens when you make the transition. And as a business coach I spend, I don't even actually know because I haven't got my invoice yet from my tax only CPA. It is September , but I anticipate it'll be probably 2,500. and I would pay double that if this quality of the service were better, it's not bad, but I send in my stuff and it just, I know that it disappears into a kerfuffle of papers. And at some point it's gonna get spit out the other side, but I don't know when, and I haven't seen my refund yet. And it's September. Right. And communication is good, but it's slow and it's intermittent all the rest. So that's the price for that. If I had an accountant only, I'd probably pay about $5,000 a year to know where I spent my money, but I just skipped past that. Cuz I can do that good enough for me in a spreadsheet, which of course, you know, when I converted over to having somebody else handle my books meant, you know, a, basically a cleanup fee to get it all sort of organized. 

[00:19:32] And I was fine with that, but what I knew I really needed as my business scaled from one to one to one to many. Was cash flow because nothing burns cash like growth. This is my second business. I've been here before and understanding how much cash I'm gonna have and how much I'm gonna need is the biggest pain point. It was the same pain point in my first business. My first business, I could not get a hold of our accountant to help us understand cash flow, hiring people, all those things like just not available physically or bandwidth wise to help us understand that this time.

[00:20:06] I hired a cash flow, CFO and CPA to help me understand how much money I need to make in order to maintain my growth and get, keep things on the path. And she ties in marketing numbers, podcast, download numbers, subscribers to my email list, all those kinds of things to understand the growth of my business and everything. So for that, I pay $15,000 a year and is totally worth it. 

[00:20:32] But what I'm missing as a business owner is a community of other coaches and one-on-one support. And for coaches who help teach me how to take a dollar and turn it into three, I will spend as much money as I can on that, and I spend $50,000 a year on coaching because they teach me what I need. They give me the actual tools, the steps, the courses, the programs, the videos, the trainings, all of it to help me turn a dollar into three and I have a community of coaches who also make multiple six figures and we can talk about all the things. Do you use convert kit or drip or MailChimp, and what are you using for your community you're using Whitey networks or are you using Kajabi? Like what do you anyway? So like all those questions and having that community of coaches is invaluable to me. So for coaching and like direct eyes on my business, I spend $50,000 to teach me how to print money, whereas to know how much money I need to make. I spent $15,000 for accounting to tell me where my money went. I would've spent $5,000. And for tax only returns only I spend about $2,500. 

[00:21:40] And I tell this story because I think that accountants and CPAs and bookkeepers underestimate the potential that is out there, that they can help create. And they're missing out on like giant pies that are at the table because they just don't know that they're there and they don't sort of give themselves permission to go check out the buffet. 

[00:22:03] Serena: I think another thing that holds people back, cuz I know lots of accountants who are fully capable of maybe not providing the community part the rest of it. Like telling you how to, I mean, maybe not every accountant because you still have to have a knowledge of really deep knowledge of the industry and the marketing tactics and things like that, but there's definitely a group of us that are able to provide that. But I think one thing that holds us back is that our clients already have hired that coach, or we don't have access to the systems to pull the numbers. So one of the bullets that you talked about was your accountant tells you how much to make and that's the one who ties it to your number of email subscribers and all those things. So she's able to get that information. How does that happen? Was it just a conversation she's like, I need this information from you or access to the program. 

[00:22:50] Geraldine: Mm-hmm yep. So we had a conversation about, you know, like, what else would you like me to know? How does this, how, you know, how, and she has niched into coaching mm-hmm and coaches. So she understands 

[00:23:01] Serena: yeah. 

[00:23:02] Geraldine: How this plays. And so I just gave her access to. And lips in my podcast host so she can pull the numbers. So I play devil's advocate about the already have those people already have coaches. Well, so what? Yeah. So what I mean, so what? 

[00:23:20] What you have that coaches do not have is access to numbers. And this is the thing that kills me is that. You can have coaches out there who will talk to you about top line revenue all day, but coaches will talk about top line revenue. You guys have access to bottom line revenue and costs and all the rest. And you guys can make more powerful recommendations because you have the money and the data to back it up. So I see accountants as having a leg up on coaches and it an advantage in a way that no coach will ever. Without access to actual numbers. 

[00:24:00] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:24:01] Geraldine: So I want to see accountants step more powerfully into this space and say, that's great that you had a six figure launch, but it's too bad that it costs you $120,000 to make a hundred let's fix that and let's set you up so you don't do it again. So I think there's room for accountants to elbow their way to the table and be like let's talk actual numbers and bottom line, because that's where, that's what you pay yourself with at the end of the day. You don't pay yourself with top line revenue. 

[00:24:27] Serena: Yeah. So can we address that elbowing to the table thing? Because we talked about earlier, a lot of my audience are women and that's one thing we struggle with is that our confidence in standing in our power and knowing what we're talking about, I mean, I have this conversation all the time with my husband too, is like, I wish you would act, you know, act like, you know what you already know 

[00:24:49] Geraldine: yeah.

[00:24:50] Serena: Instead of staying quiet. So is that something that you coach women through? 

[00:24:55] Geraldine: Yeah so one of the things that we work on, one of the things that I bring to the table in my work with accountants and CPAs is imagining two DNA strands, right? One of business tactics, and the other of business mindset. You can do tactics all day, but if your mindset is in the basement about how people don't value me and it's not fair. And why are these other people getting dah, dah, dah. No amount of tactic will overcome a lack of confidence, a lack of faith, a lack of trust, a lack of I can do this. I'm worth going after this and all the rest. 

[00:25:36] So we work on the MI of on all the mindset pieces that show up in your business, including confidence and believing in the value that you create for your clients. And. giving yourself permission to be successful. Mm-hmm giving yourself permission to make a buttload of money. We have a long history of as women of not being able to make money, no access to credit, can't sign a mortgage. I mean, it was, my mom had to go to the bank with my dad to get a credit card.

[00:26:08] Serena: Right. It hasn't its happening today. By the way, I had a friend who got a loan and she couldn't finish it without her husband's signature. 

[00:26:17] Geraldine: When I file my taxes, I have to use my husband's social security number. Yeah. Because he's listed first on the partnership. 

[00:26:27] Serena: Was it a male accountant that put his name first?

[00:26:30] Geraldine: Yes, sure was. So anyways, as women, we have a lot, we, we can't blame this on the past. Right? Right. We have a lot of work to do. This is our journey to step onto the playing field. And say, look, here's the value that I provide and own the value that I provide and price according to accordingly, and to give ourselves permission to be successful and to give ourselves permission to make a bunch of money because,

[00:27:00] So I talk to women all the time who say things like I would love to make $500,000 a year, but I don't wanna be greedy. It's that kind of thing. The association of making a lot of money with being greedy, I wanna be successful, but I don't wanna be arrogant that kind of association of success with arrogance, whatever it is. However you have it tied together. Those are the things that we need to surface because without surfacing them, they're gonna run the show in the background and they will act like subterfuge in your business.

[00:27:36] Serena: yeah. Another thing I see coming up a lot too, is not going for things because, and I did this in corporate, I saw other women do it in corporate, just not applying for that promotion or that job opening because we didn't hit every bullet point on the job description. But just having the fear of rejection being the thing that holds us back. Like I don't wanna be told no. So I'm just not even gonna ask . 

[00:28:00] Geraldine: Yeah. So I'll just fail ahead of time. I'll just have the answer effectively. Yeah. 

[00:28:03] Serena: I'll just cut my own legs off. 

[00:28:05] Geraldine: Exactly, exactly. Yeah. So that happens a lot too. and the way that I see this playing out is-- you have a podcast. I have a podcast. Any woman can start podcast 

[00:28:15] Serena: mm-hmm 

[00:28:17] Geraldine: but the number of female hosts is like 20%. What? I didn't even know that that's unfortunate. It's it's going up, but case in point, there's no outward obstacle that stops us from having podcasts. But we, this is why I say that we, as women can continue to put outside blame and this is work that we need to do ourselves. 

[00:28:37] Serena: Mm-hmm 

[00:28:38] Geraldine: because there's nobody stopping. From having podcasts, we just decide for ourselves, oh, I'm not ready. Oh, I can't. Oh, they'll make fun of me.

[00:28:45] Serena: I don't like, oh, I don't, 

[00:28:47] Geraldine: I don't like the sound of my voice. We have work to do as women to stop making decisions that prevent the very success that we proclaim to want. Yeah. And I recieve, as I'm sure you do a ton of invitations of people who pitch to be on my podcast. 

[00:29:03] Serena: Mm-hmm 

[00:29:04] Geraldine: And they're 80% dudes and I'm like, where are the women? So, what I know is that women are talented. They're smart, they're hard working. They provide a ton of value and they legitimately care. So there are no outside barriers to your success. It's a matter of deciding that you are worth creating the life and the business that you wanna have and then figuring out how to create it. 

[00:29:33] Serena: Yes, amen to that. I love it. I know that when I first started my podcast, I was like, I don't feel like I'm a good speaker, I don't like the sound of my own voice, which is very funny because after I launched my podcast, I had so many people being like, I love your voice. It's so soothing, I listen to your podcast all the time on my way to work. And I'm like, imagine if I just didn't launch my podcast because I didn't like my own voice.

[00:30:01] Geraldine: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:30:03] Serena: Depriving all these people 

[00:30:04] Geraldine: I wouldn't have been able to listen to you last week on my hike over John Stone pass, talking to James Wedmore. That was an amazing conversation that you guys had.

[00:30:13] Serena: Oh, thank you. 

[00:30:14] Geraldine: Yeah. So we all have something to share and I mean, it's like the Marion Williamson quote, like don't hide, like stop hiding your light under a bushel. You do not serve the world when you play small. 

[00:30:26] Serena: Yeah, speaking of playing small, before we recorded, I told you that someone in our industry told me that I was playing too small and my comeback was like, there's a balance. Right. But my comeback was like, well, I mean, yes, I know I can go bigger and go further, but right now this season of my life, that's not my priority and my intention. So My whole thing right now is like, I only wanna work 20 hours a week and that might have something to do with my own mindset. Right. Of like I have to work more to make more money working on it, but also very much recognizing that my children are small and. Even if I'm not the one, doing everything to go bigger, there's still more, a little, there's going to be a little more involvement on my end to be able to do that. It's not gonna be like no extra involvement to be able to grow bigger. Right. So that's the other thing that we have to take into account. So it's, you don't have to go bigger if it's just not the right season of life either. 

[00:31:30] Geraldine: And I would also push back on the idea that having 20 hour a week business that supports your life and your family and allows you to have free time and a healthy mind space is somehow small. 

[00:31:47] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:31:48] Geraldine: Why is that small? 

[00:31:50] Serena: Because my thinking everywhere yet, I don't know small thinking for me. Right. Well, 

[00:31:56] Geraldine: but small thinking is like, I have to take over the world and I have to be the biggest and the best and have the most podcast downloads and the most clients and the most money and the nicest car. And meanwhile, make myself crazy and run myself ragged. But I'm big. Like why is, I mean, that, to me seems like small thi like we can do better than that.

[00:32:11] Serena: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think. You're winning if you have your priorities straight.

[00:32:18] Geraldine: Yes. 

[00:32:18] Serena: So if your priority is making a big impact with your business, then great. Go for it. If your priority is to be there for your family and make a decent impact, that's mine. You know, I'm still making an impact. 

[00:32:36] Geraldine: I would frame it as what is the life that you actually wanna have and what is the business that you actually wanna have? 

[00:32:42] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:32:43] Geraldine: And design for that and just let the noise of the socials and all the rest. Just let it fall away. It doesn't matter. It's your life. You only get one shot, create the one that you want, not the one that you feel pressured to create because other people have defined success in their own terms. And they're imposing it upon you. 

[00:33:08] Serena: Yeah. That's so good. It's such a mic drop moment that we just have to end on that so thank you so much for coming on here. Truly, an honor. Can you please share where is the best place for people to connect with you besides your podcast, which will also link in the show notes, but. 

[00:33:28] Geraldine: Yeah. So if people wanna connect with me, the easiest way is my email. It's gcgeraldine@carter.com. Or if they wanna just check out my website first to, you know, scope it out scope me out. It's geraldinecarter.com. And for folks who wanna get six reasons, it's good to raise your rates on your clients and seven ways to raise your prices. You can get that by subscribing to my list, which you'll find at my website, geraldinecarter.com.

[00:33:53] Serena: Awesome. Thank you so much for your time and we will talk to you soon. 

[00:33:58] Geraldine: Thanks so much for having me. This has been great. 

[00:34:01] Serena: Awesome.

[00:34:03]