85 ⎸ Choosing the Right Marketing Strategy with Alyssa Lang

This week we welcome back a good friend of mine and repeat guest - Alyssa Lang, the Workflow Queen, to talk about choosing a marketing strategy that’s right for you.

In this episode you’ll hear:

• Alyssa’s current marketing campaign for her bookkeeping firm
• My current marketing strategy
• Comparing and contrasting why we both chose these differing strategies

About our guest

Alyssa, aka the Workflow Queen, teaches bookkeepers and accountants how to utilize tech and automation to create better workflows, systems and processes. As a result they can run their practices on autopilot, stress less and save time!

After being in the accounting world for five years, Alyssa struggled with streamlining her practice. She felt frustrated and nervous and couldn't sleep at night not knowing where her client work would come from. She was overwhelmed by all the daily tasks, lost track of work and just couldn't keep up.

Alyssa hit a wall and decided to make a change, so she started to automate her practice by creating workflows, systems and processes. She was then able to run her practice and take on more clients, scale and provide excellent service in the process!

These days Alyssa’s a full-time educator. She’s also an Asana Certified Pro and her courses and resources have helped hundreds of bookkeepers and accountants worldwide!

Listen to The Conquering Workflows & Systems Podcast

Connect with Alyssa: workflowqueen.com

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Join the waitlist for the upcoming Workflows Made Simple Challenge >>

https://learn.workflowqueen.com/5-day-free-challenge

Thank you for your support of our show. If you haven’t left a review yet it’s super simple. Please go to: https://www.ambitiousbookkeeper.com/podcast and leave your review.

Transcript

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[00:00:00] Alyssa: I have been using Facebook ads for over three years at Workflow Queen.

Now granted, this is my first time using it for this type of business, 

[00:00:06] Serena: for like a service based business, 

[00:00:08] Alyssa: and it's a whole nother audience and a whole nother world. So don't get me wrong, like I'm even like, okay, gotta make sure I don't have hate comments cuz they will come. If you are not casting the right net to the right audience, you will get hate comments on your ads.

Don't take 'em personal. Can't tell you how many times people have been like I can't take her serious like . That's fine. Too many unicorns. Too many unicorns, but sucks to be you cuz now you're still struggling that was really mean, but not at the same time. Don't judge me. 

[00:01:05] Serena: Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. Today I have a super special guest, and if you've been in my world for a while, you've probably heard of her. Maybe you even heard of me through her, is Alyssa Lang, the workflow Queen. Welcome back to the Ambitious Bookkeeper Podcast. This is why like your third time, fourth time, fifth time, I don't even know, 

[00:01:26] Alyssa: I was literally just gonna start it out with, how many times have we done this already? I think it's like four or five for sure. Okay. But I think I've lost count cuz there. Do webinars, count. Do copy Chads count , 

[00:01:37] Serena: like, yeah. Who, who even knows anymore? Yeah. 

[00:01:40] Alyssa: Who's, who's ultimately counting . 

[00:01:42] Serena: In case we have any new listeners that have just recently joined us, and they have not scrolled back in their podcast app and binged all the episodes, would you please introduce yourself to our guest?

[00:01:53] Alyssa: Yeah, so my name's Alyssa Lang. I am the owner and founder here at Workflow Queen. I also own and manage my own bookkeeping firm, and it's also consulting as well. It's called Magnetic Bookkeeping and Consulting. 

I am so pumped if you don't know who I am. I really focus a lot on systems, processes, team building with Workflow Queen. It has been such an amazing thing. In about a week, I will be at a three year anniversary of helping thousands, almost of people around the world with implementing tech systems automation known as the Asana Queen as well. I get that message a lot too. Other than that, I mean, I'm also Serena's biz bestie. I think that's the best badge and honor to wear . 

[00:02:30] Serena: Yeah, I totally botched the intro. I was like, could you please introduce you, introduce yourself to our guest? Anyhow all fumbles aside, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast today and chat through kind of just some recent developments and things that you're doing and all that kind of stuff with your bookkeeping firm. Yeah. 

So so yeah, before we hit record, we were talking about. Like figuring out what we were even gonna talk about. We just, we, we know that when we get together, we're always gonna have stuff to talk about. It's almost like, but when we hit record, it's like, oh, what? Well, now what do we talk about 

[00:03:07] Alyssa: every time. Never fails, 

[00:03:09] Serena: but we landed on something that's always top of mind no matter what stage of business you're in, and that is marketing your firm. So give us a little background of like, Kind of a backstory of Magnetic and where you're at right now with your marketing strategies and whatnot. And then I'm sure the conversation will just go from there. 

[00:03:32] Alyssa: Yeah. So I started Magnetic Bookkeeping and consulting back in, I wanna say it was, One year ago, actually, almost like a couple weeks ago, it was a one year anniversary. I originally started it with a then business partner, and she actually was one of my employees over at Work Flow Queen at the time. And so throughout the year everything kind of transitioned. There was just more of an alignment where, or I guess a recognition of me really understanding that I'm not meant to have a business partner. And so in that transition, it really came down to having that open conversation, which wasn't easy. So that can be a whole nother topic for a whole nother podcast. 

But out of respect for my business partner as well, everything was great. Everything was dandy. It just wasn't, I. what I ultimately wanted. So I was very honest about that. And so on September 28th, 2022, I actually bought out her shares of the business. It was either gonna go to her or go to myself, but she was located in Canada. So it just made more sense for me to keep it cuz we are US based.

If you didn't know or don't know about my history I actually owned a bookkeeping and tax firm. It was called Top-Notch Bookkeeping Solutions. I wanna say it was like four or five years. And then back in 2021, I decided, Full force work flow queen. So I got crazy enough to get back into magnetic. But this time around, the reason I'm kind of doing that piece of the introduction is this time around, I know from the very beginning the importance of hiring, the importance of documenting things that I wish I would've done the first time I did this. Another thing too is marketing. So I've learned a lot of things along the way at Workflow Queen and just like you have too Ambitious, like. We do rely on Facebook ads. We do rely on different types of marketing than a firm would, which is very referral based. 

So the whole year of 2022, it just wasn't going as fast as I wanted it to. And I think that was just like a misalignment between partners. Once everything got fully bought out and transitioned, I waited until 2023, which is what we're in now to really full force, do a massive marketing campaign. Actually just started February 1st, and so we're five days deep. And so yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.

What was the question? ? 

[00:05:32] Serena: Yeah, that's pretty much it. Like kind of giving a background of Magnetic, where you started out, where you're at right now, and kind of what your marketing strategy is. So do you wanna dive into what you like, cuz you kind of hinted at using ads, but do you wanna dive into what you're doing and what kind of results you're seeing so far? Even though it's pretty early on. I think it's really awesome to hear. 

[00:05:53] Alyssa: Yeah, definitely. So as far as strategies, so I kind of took a step back and decided where is my audience? So me and Serena have very similar audiences when it comes to our firms. We both serve like coaches, consultants, but I feel like my, my net is cast a little bit larger because we're also dealing with like marketing agencies, like social media managers.

But it, I think it'll eventually, Chopped down even smaller and smaller of a net. But anyways, so essentially my plan was, was to say, Hey, where are all these people hanging out at? What are they doing? Last year I did a sponsorship and did pay $20,000 people. Yes, 20 grand to be on the back of a badge at a very massive event called Social Media Marketing World. And it was supposed to be a big hit. And this is where marketing can fail you guys. It was supposed to be a hit, but then ultimately, the people who put together at the event, because this was like post covid they actually pulled some of their really big keynotes, like keynote speakers and really large speakers that actually had my audience and that were my ideal people. But unfortunately because they backed out because ticket sales weren't as high as normal, that meant that they brought in more corporate people. So that also fled more corporate people that were sent to the event. So it actually backfired. 

I was a bit frustrated as I, as I wish we would've gotten some sort of a refund for that because there was nothing that we could do about a pivot like that. But essentially we did pivot. We made a lot of connections with vendors and stuff like that, so we just had to change. But that was definitely a fail. We actually landed one client from that. Which granted they pay around $895 a month. So it will pay for itself eventually, but it's still not fun.

But as of right now, the new campaign was, is just all about where can I find all these people. So that's a lot of my audiences on Instagram, on Facebook they are on things like LinkedIn and stuff. So right now we set up LinkedIn all of January. So set up the bio, made sure everything was specific. I actually ended up creating two different LinkedIn personal pages. One for Workflow Queen and one for Magnetic. Because as you know, the algorithm loves to share our firms and us like our names to other accountants. And so sometimes I'm like, it's great that people follow me, but then the algorithm starts to show my profile and my stuff to not the right audience that I'm trying to attract at my firm, as you know.

[00:08:05] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:08:06] Alyssa: And so it's always like so weird, the whole algorithm thing, but that's also you having to take a step back. So anyone listening and understand the way that these types of things do work because I see this all the time in Facebook groups like bookkeeping rooms, where everyone's like, Hey, go like my Instagram, like so I can get more followers or go like my business page. What y'all don't understand is actually it's backfiring on you. 

[00:08:28] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:08:28] Alyssa: Because you are telling Facebook, you're telling these algorithms, Hey, attract more bookkeepers. Attract more CPAs, because you're shouting it out. So I literally don't share it with anybody and people will just naturally find my firm. And follow for inspiration, but that's a whole nother thing. 

So essentially the big plan is ultimately was to create this campaign that was gonna be marketing focused around like Facebook ads and stuff, because that's where my audience is. And really just try to follow the data, see if we need to shift things. And that's kind of where we're at. We just started kicking it in on the first of this month, and so because of that, I'm now tracking a lot of the different data. I feel like I'm rambling and I feel like there's probably questions. 

[00:09:09] Serena: This is really good. I'm, I'm taking notes and so hopefully our listener is as well.

[00:09:14] Alyssa: I hope so. So anyways, January was very focused on LinkedIn stuff, getting it ready to go. Cause we're also gonna be launching something in, I think it's the end of February. My intentions is making connections with people and sending certain emails, which you do have to have paid LinkedIn for.

And so anyways this month is very much so a marketing campaign around a free diagnostic review. And I know a lot of people think that's crazy because this doesn't have to be an extremely thorough one. If a client of mine or a prospect comes to me and asks for a very detailed, thorough diagnostic review, it is not free. If this is something where we're doing a 15 minute quick peek, which I totally got this idea from Melissa Honan, I actually worked with her one-on-one consulting to work on the strategy behind this. So definitely check her out. She's amazing. So essentially people will opt in for a free diagnostic review and the way that they can find this is through Facebook ads. There also is another landing page that is hosted on my website, but that has a very different links. That way I can track the different data where, how many page views from ads versus like my regular website. So people will essentially opt into this free diagnostic review hoping that the Facebook ads hit the right people, because that's a whole nother thing. 

[00:10:27] Serena: Yeah. So I like a couple things that you're bringing up that I think is really important for people to, to. Like pause and listen to. And one of 'em is that like you're focusing on a single strategy for at least 30 days and you're tracking all the data behind it so you know what is actually working and what isn't.

And this is something that I , I try to preach a lot to even my clients of like, Find, pick one thing, pick one strategy, focus on that, and track the data behind it. Otherwise, you have no idea if it's actually working right? Yeah. And so, and then the other thing too is because you're tracking that data, you're able to see like, and make little tweaks and pivots because you're, focusing on the one thing and you're not stretched thin across multiple strategies, trying to track all the things.

[00:11:20] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:11:20] Serena: But you're able to see, oh, these ads Aren. Targeting exactly who we want. So let's make little tweaks. If you're doing five different ad campaigns and strategies across multiple platforms, it's gonna be a lot harder to spend that time to focus on what actually needs to be tweaked to get the right audience.

And so Yeah, so I just, I just wanna shout out that whole approach and show you how, like important that is for sure. Audience. 

[00:11:49] Alyssa: Yeah, the data, I mean, that's if I just sit here and allow the people to pop in. So I came a little bit late to pushing, like go on the ads because I was waiting for the copy from our copywriter. And then I went in, I actually did the design myself for the actual ad image, and then I did a couple of random ones, so I didn't get it started until. I think it's been three days now. I actually pulled up the data before we started this episode. It's actually been, today is day four, technically of the ad being live. So as of the four days, I've already landed two of the free diagnostic-- 

Remember guys, when someone books the free diagnostic review, it does not mean they're a client. It means that we are offering a free diagnostic review. They could take it or leave it. They can give it to their bookkeeper, they could take it themselves and try to DIY it, and that's where you. You're not necessarily putting fear into people cuz that's not what you wanna do and the type of strategy I like. But you wanna be very clear. I'm very upfront in my landing page it says, you can either take this to your bookkeeper, DIY it, or you can hand it off to us when you find out, you know, what it is that we have and what, how we can serve you.

So people aren't going to be a client. There's not really an inten-- there is an intention on our backend to land them as a client with the value that we bring up front. So we've actually landed so far at least one diagnostic review a day, which just be really mindful that these diagnostic reviews are not just, oh, give us our QBO access. It's, hey, let's get on a call. Let's make sure that you're in alignment as someone that we wanna even work with. Because if we are attracting the wrong person, then I'm just gonna be upfront and I have a big group of bookkeepers all over the world that I can introduce them to and say, Hey, these are better fits for you.

So as of right now, I didn't track the data for today cuz I just started work. We've spent $75 so far. and have landed the, what did I say, three? I think it's three all together. Clients not clients, but prospects. So even that, like, I know that sounds really crazy. It's still a free thing. Like my conversion rate on a sales call is like almost 90%.

So if they're the right fit, and I feel in alignment for me, $75 to land a minimum that our minimum fee is 400 a month. So minimum. And you times that by 12, like to me the $75 is nothing compared to what's gonna come on the backend. And I think that that's where the fear comes when people start to try to do ads is also people who do it wrong and they just throw money at it and it's like, but I'm not getting anything and I'm scared to spend a thousand dollars, but you gained 5,000. Like what's, how is that? You know? 

[00:14:12] Serena: Yeah, it's definitely a, a mindset shift around, around that. It's kind of like, I guess my marketing strategy right now is pretty different than yours, but it's gonna be interesting to see how they kind of compare, given that we do have the same.

Audi. Mm-hmm. , similar audience, right? Yeah. I'm going for a much more like organic strategy. Mm-hmm. . But I'm not leaving things up to just 

[00:14:38] Alyssa: referrals. . Yeah. You know what I mean? People make the mistake and I wish that people understood, like if you were to sell your business, And you had to be evaluated and they'll ask you, they will ask you an evaluation.

Where are your people coming from? One, you should be tracking that data. So 

[00:14:54] Serena: your client acquisition strategy, 

[00:14:56] Alyssa: if, if literally the acquisition strategy is coming from referrals only, that's great. A lot of businesses can't survive. But it scares someone who wants to invest or someone who wants to buy. Yeah.

Because if this referral base that usually is attached to a person and so. It changes business ownership, guess what's gonna happen? And so like, I think it's really important to understand that if you have some sort of other strategies like Serena, she's got her own approach, which don't get me wrong, we're also doing or organic as well.

Next month, starting in March, we're gonna be doing podcast pitching. So essentially the team will podcast pitch me to get on the right audiences podcast. Yeah. That will have my people. And so there are so many different ways, but I think so many people put their eggs in one. Just like me, I can't just put it in Facebook ads because Right.

[00:15:44] Serena: But you have to do it long enough to be able to see if it's working. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Right. Or at least have a way to track on the backend where exactly those leads are coming from. So you could, like, once you have your ads dialed in, you could you then layer on your next strategy, which is podcast pitching.

And then when you're bringing those clients on, you make sure you ask, or it's part of their intake. You find out where they came from so that you can continue to track that data to see which one is working better and sometimes they work in tandem. Yeah, because, right, like you're doing an organic strategy, but then all of a sudden since they looked you up, After you.

They heard you on a podcast. They're now "cookied" or whatever. What is it called? Yeah. Is that what it's called? 

[00:16:25] Alyssa: I like "cookied" 

[00:16:26] Serena: cookie 

[00:16:26] Alyssa: sounds great. Cookie . 

[00:16:28] Serena: They're cookie monsters. 

[00:16:29] Alyssa: The cookie monster. 

[00:16:30] Serena: They're, they're now being pixeled. That's the thing. I was like, what is it called? But they're 

[00:16:35] Alyssa: Cookied is better

[00:16:36] Serena: Yeah. They're now pixeled. And so because they went to your website or they went to your social media after they heard you on a podcast, now they're pixeled. Now they're getting targeted with your ads. So now it's amplified, right? So , once those two strategies are working together, it's, you're probably gonna blow me out of the water when it comes to like client acquisition.

[00:16:56] Alyssa: Yeah. But at the same time, I'm gonna be attracting a lot of people that aren't in alignment because ads are such a massive net to cast. 

[00:17:03] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:17:03] Alyssa: Even right now, like reviewing the intake forms that people are doing. So they, they do a Calendly. They pick a day for the diagnostic review. It's a 30 day chunk. Essentially we're getting on that call, we're having that discussion with them. And so during that call, like they have an intake form before, I can actually already review it. There's someone that I already feel like is not gonna be the right fit. He's an IT company and it's not that it, like if it's consulting, it's different, but when you're selling something on a like a k a not in alignment with what we do. Then I'm just gonna simply email them and let them know, like I have a templated email that's like, Hey, I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. 

Just be very clear, no matter if you offer something like this for free to a very cold audience, do not lie to them. Do not say that everybody is guaranteed a diagnostic review. You need to put a disclaimer. So I have a disclaimer on the website that essentially says, one, we are uua US based only. , if you're not formed in the us, like you can be living like in another country, but if your business is not formed in the US I cannot support you. And also another thing is, if you are not in alignment with the clients that we serve, which we actually do list, then we will have to politely decline, which I most likely will have to do to one of these people.

So I might have more reach, but you're gonna have more benefit from like, just, you're going straight to exactly who you need. 

[00:18:15] Serena: Right. 

[00:18:16] Alyssa: You know?

[00:18:16] Serena: So let's, let's talk about the difference of that, because. Both of us have very, like a lot of it is like the season of life that we're into, right? I have a totally different life than you have. Like you have more time to be getting on these calls to be doing these diagnostics. I don't, so I have to make sure that whoever comes my way is already a qualified, basically a qualified lead. Like as long as they fit my niche, they can afford my service. They're willing to be on Xero, they are qualified.

And so yes, I get way fewer leads, but I land almost a hundred percent of 'em. Right? 

[00:18:52] Alyssa: Exactly, exactly. 

[00:18:53] Serena: Because I'm so selective. And then I do the same. I do. A similar process where there's like an intake form where I ask all those questions, are you okay switching to zero? Are you like, can you afford six 50 a month minimum? And are you within this industry? And if they answer no to any of those or something that's kind of like borderline, we'll email them and I'll set up a call, or we'll have an email conversation before we set up a call, and then I kind of like go from there and decide. 

So yeah, like I, it's funny because you're like, I'm get I, it's only been five day, whatever, five days since you've turned the ads on, you've gotten three leads.

[00:19:31] Alyssa: Yeah.

[00:19:32] Serena: I'm like, I get like, One lead a week maybe. 

[00:19:35] Alyssa: Yes. . Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:19:37] Serena: But like I said, I've also like, just started my strategy in January and it's gonna, since mine is more organic, it is gonna take longer for those people to warm up and-- 

[00:19:47] Alyssa: But also you're going, they're going straight for the kill is the other thing.

Like, I'm going in with a freebie. 

[00:19:52] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:19:52] Alyssa: And like that's, you know what I mean? It's such a different, I still have to convert them on the back end. 

[00:19:56] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:19:57] Alyssa: So there's like so many more layers. But yeah, I might be bringing more people and even with. Some people would be like, oh my God, cuz I'm looking at the numbers right now, like number of sales page views. I didn't track yesterday's data cuz I just started today so far is that 23 people viewed the page itself. And so out of 23 people and having a certain number of people actually booking is still good, but at the same time I'm like, even me over here, I'm like, why does this not sound good? Like, that's not enough. Like why are not, not everybody just jumping at a freebie? So now I'm stepping back and saying, Maybe they need to just be reminded that you don't have to have a set of books. Like it might not be the most thorough diagnostic review, but I could still help you review a good old spreadsheet and give some advice.

[00:20:40] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:20:40] Alyssa: You know, make some tips here and there. So I definitely think that it's beneficial to track the data, track the information and really just like, hone in on it and take a step back and say, is it the ad image? Is it not hitting the right people? Yeah, I'm at a whole nother layer level than most average people who would start other than you. I know that you're also could understand Facebook ads. I'm at a stage in my business where I can, I wanna have the capacity and the resources to be able to do testing images, testing button links, having different, like one of 'em, like right now, the most highly converted one is actually using the word diagnostic review, which was very interesting to me. The other ad image that has not gotten anybody booked, it says Free bookkeeping analysis, like in-depth financial bookkeeping analysis or something like that. I was surprised cuz I thought most average business owners would not even know what a diagnostic review is. 

[00:21:33] Serena: But if you think of how like, and this is always the comparison and the example I use. With business owners and bookkeepers alike. It's like when you have a problem with your car, and you don't know what it is, you take it to a shop and get a diagnostic. That's what they call it. So it's like it's the same. I think that's probably why people are like, oh that makes sense to me because like that's what I do when I know I have a problem with my car, but I don't know what it is.

[00:22:00] Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It was very interesting though, cause I remember like talking to the copywriter and I was like, I don't know. So I'd rather have two. Formats. But like I had mentioned, if you are just getting started, because I think this is really important to say I'm at a very advanced level. I have been using Facebook ads for over three years at Workflow Queen.

Now granted, this is my first time using it for this type of business, 

[00:22:21] Serena: for like a service based business, 

[00:22:23] Alyssa: and it's a whole nother audience and a whole nother world. So don't get me wrong, like I'm even like, okay, gotta make sure I don't have hate comments cuz they will come. If you are not casting the right net to the right audience, you will get hate comments on your ads.

Don't take 'em personal. Can't tell you how many times people have been like I can't take her serious like . That's fine. Too many unicorns. Too many unicorns, but sucks to be you cuz now you're still struggling that was really mean, but not at the same time. Don't judge me. 

So anyways. I'm at a different level where I have the capacity and the resources to be able to test these things. I've been doing it for so long. Even the spreadsheet that I have to just track this data is very intricate. It's got a lot of information. It's, it's very straightforward. I have like five different landing pages for the diagnostic review for each funnel. So LinkedIn will have a, a special landing page so then I know where they're coming from.

[00:23:15] Serena: Mm. Yeah. 

[00:23:15] Alyssa: Versus having to ask, so I have multiple different pages. I have one for cold emails. I have one that's just my regular website. They're all identical. 

[00:23:23] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:23:23] Alyssa: And they're just used to tell me where people are coming from and that's because I've gotten to a point where I can do that. So if you're just starting out, just use your regular website. Try to get educated on Facebook ads, cuz you will waste money if you do not know what you're doing. , I can definitely say that for sure. I would recommend a program, but the girl who did the program that I signed up for no longer does it anymore. 

[00:23:45] Serena: Oh yeah. That happens. People transition away from like what they started out teaching. And But yeah, I agree. There's definitely programs out there that are at all sorts of price points. So the, you know, if you are interested in doing ads, you can do that. There's also people that will, I have a, like one of my clients actually sets up ad funnels for service-based businesses to get you console calls. Right? 

[00:24:09] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:24:10] Serena: And so there's people that will provide that service and help you get it all set up so you don't have to be the one to learn everything if you don't have time, but 

[00:24:18] Alyssa: yeah, or you don't want to. 

[00:24:20] Serena: Yeah. Or if you don't want to. Yeah, so I don't know if we talked about what my strategy is, and I know I've talked about it like with my social media audience and stuff like that. And then if you follow my firm, you probably know because cons-- not constantly, but every so often I'll say like, "I'm booking for February and March for speaking." But yeah, like my strategy is to get on. Three to four podcasts, stages, speaking at retreats, like getting in front of people and talking. 

[00:24:49] Alyssa: Three to four a month or is it three to four a quarter? 

[00:24:52] Serena: A quarter, yeah. Okay. So. Or, or better, right? Like, that's my minimum though, like three or four a quarter. So I'm, I've actually completed that for q1, but I'm still like booking more because it's like, 

[00:25:03] Alyssa: yeah, why not just keep going? Like, what? Why, why? Also, if you're not getting the, the response in the backend that you saw, that's where testing comes in. It's like, yeah, maybe we actually need 10 engagements in order to land. X number of clients, people, it's like the domino effect. You have to think of the last domino and go backwards before your dominoes will flow. Right? And I think people forget that. So what you're doing too is, going in. I need this to then go smaller, to go then go smaller to be able to land this number of clients. So you have to have the biggest number at the top of your funnel. So that's really interesting. 

[00:25:34] Serena: Yeah, exactly. And like I'm starting to, like, I'm able to kind of know at this point, because I've done enough speaking gigs or a podcast to know that like when I'm there in person or in a Zoom with a small group, my conversion is better than on a podcast.

So then I can be like, okay, well that that's actually more successful because I get. You know, it's a more personal experience with them. 

[00:26:01] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:26:02] Serena: And so maybe I pivot to trying to do more of those and you know, one or two podcasts instead. 

[00:26:10] Alyssa: Yeah. 

[00:26:10] Serena: Right. Instead of five podcasts and one speaking gig a quarter. And then I also know. From tracking history, , right, from tracking the data, which my data tracking is much easier because the volume is so much lower and it's not super intricate. But yeah, tracking the data of when I speak in a physical room with 10 to 15 people, I will convert one of at least one of those people into clients.

[00:26:34] Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:26:35] Serena: So and there's also the in between metrics of like, you don't go from. How many people in a room straight to how many you've actually converted, although you can, but there's also the layer in between of like how many conversations you had one-on-one with those people that were in the room. So like, would I have converted the one client from a 15 person retreat had I not been having one-on-one conversations throughout the retreat? Probably not. Right? So you have to think about that too, like what are the other things that you're doing in between that also contribute to that?

[00:27:06] Alyssa: Yeah, 

[00:27:06] Serena: because me just getting up on stage and then leaving at the end and not interacting with anybody, I don't think that would've worked. 

[00:27:12] Alyssa: Yeah, I think that's important to say because I think a lot of people fear, and I just like myself from when I first. Workflow Queen is such a different animal. Just like Ambitious is so different of an animal than what we do within the firms. 

[00:27:24] Serena: Different business model.

[00:27:24] Alyssa: They're way different. And to be honest, I think it's a lot harder to manage Workflow Queen than it ever will be a firm, in my opinion. And that's just how I feel, and I think there's just so many more layers. But one thing that I really struggled with at the very beginning of starting Workflow Queen was I heard it from a lot of the gurus and a lot of the people that in order to get someone to buy your program or to buy your thing, that you have to really lead with value. And I never really understood it. I thought it was like, oh, just create this free you guide. Oh, just do this. I didn't realize that Sometimes when you just lead with straight value, with like obviously in the back of my mind, I'm always like, I hope they pay me eventually. Like yeah, but if you just lead with it, you'd be surprised if you just give information to people. I'm talking about like literally at a retreat or an in-person speaking event. Hey, you know what? Go grab your QuickBooks. Do you have your laptop on you? Let's chat real quick. 

[00:28:15] Serena: Yeah, 

[00:28:15] Alyssa: pull it up. Show me what your issues are. I'm happy to help you fix it right now. Obviously I can't clean up your whole books right now, but I can't help you say, oh yeah, that's why, because you're an S Corp and you should not have this account here. It should be mapped to this, and so on and so forth. People are gonna remember you for that and, and so many people are terrified and and they'll say, well, they're just gonna go do it themselves. You know how much people, once they realize how much actually goes into something, they actually don't want it? 

[00:28:40] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:28:40] Alyssa: I'm not saying bombard them with information, but like, stop everybody who's listening. Stop being so scared to just give away the thing.

[00:28:47] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:28:48] Alyssa: I, I'm not asking you to give away the fricking map.

I'm asking you to give away little nuggets and little things here and there to the point where people are just like, man, they know what they're talking about. 

[00:28:59] Serena: Yeah. 

[00:28:59] Alyssa: They're so helpful. I can't imagine when I hand 'em over. And that's what happens every time we, me and you do our challenges and our launches and whenever we got things going on and promotions is, we're always giving so much to people, they're just like, holy **** They're just mind blown by what comes with this. So to anybody listening, don't be afraid to give it away. You'd be surprised that people will give you money faster than you think. 

[00:29:19] Serena: Yeah, there will. I will say there's one little caveat with that. When it comes to bookkeeping, it is okay to not give away help to friends and family oh yes. Because those ones probably will never pay you if you don't start off. 

[00:29:33] Alyssa: I will not work with friends and family. I've done it before. Yeah. It's backfired on me. I will never, ever allow someone who's really close to me, even a friend. I'm like, you can help you set up your chart of accounts real quick, but I am not managing your books. Like, yeah, it's not happening. So I definitely can agree. 

[00:29:49] Serena: Yeah. Alright, so before we run out of time, I want you to share with our listener what you have going on in your world. I know that, you know, we wanted, I wanted to bring you on because the timing of when this episode goes live, what's happening in your world. So go ahead and. Just talking about it. I'm all awkward. I'm like, I'm like awkward. No, I'm just kidding. 

[00:30:15] Alyssa: Yeah. So around the time that this is going to be going live to everybody is, I'm actually gonna have my podcast relaunching. So the first time I did it was around last year and I didn't-- I just didn't think I was ready and I listened to myself and paused it and said, you know, I'm gonna wait till I'm ready for it. But now I'm going full force. We already have four episodes that are gonna drop. It's gonna be on Valentine's Day, which I think this will be after Valentine's Day. But essentially Valentine's Day is my three-year anniversary for Workflow Queen. The podcast is called Conquering Workflows and Systems for Bookkeepers and Accountants.

The whole goal of that podcast is really just to have guests and also solo episodes. Today I'm gonna be doing a couple of recordings about like team building hiring, and yes, I'm gonna give golden nuggets and yes, I'm gonna bring the value and hopefully support anybody who's, whether at the beginning stages or someone who's ready to sell, or someone who's ready to transition out of their company and not work so much.

So the intention is to bring on people like Serena, people like Melissa Honan, who I was talking about earlier with, who helped me with my marketing strategy. Just anybody I can expose anybody to that's helped me along my journey. And so the systems I've used, the processes, the tech.

So that's really exciting and that's gonna come out and I can't wait. It's gonna be every Tuesday. And Serena's gonna constantly be on it. You already know it. 

[00:31:26] Serena: Yeah. Yeah. So when you're listening to this episode, you should be able to, as soon as you're done listening, head over into your podcast app and search Alyssa's podcast, conquering workflows, 

[00:31:38] Alyssa: flows, and systems for Bookkeeping's account. Yeah, it's a, it's a long one. I have to 

[00:31:42] Serena: conquering workflows and systems. That's what I thought. Like that's what I had in my brain, but I was like, when it's coming out of my mouth, it sounds weird. Yeah. So so hop on over there, subscribe, follow, do all the things. You'll be able to binge a few 

[00:31:53] Alyssa: Be sure to leave a review people. It helps

[00:31:56] Serena: Yes, it does definitely leave a review. You'll be able to binge a few episodes and I believe one of 'em is with me. 

[00:32:03] Alyssa: Yeah. The very f actually the very first episode. I mean, the pilot doesn't really count. It's like a zero episode. Yeah so there's a pilot, but the very first episode is actually with Serena. It was like I called her and I remember the day I was like, As I'm relaunching this thing cuz we're scrapping all the other episodes. There was only a couple of 'em, the one we did it last year. And I was like, I want you to be the first person that I interview on the podcast. Very first episode. So that is who the first episode is.

Also, another one behind that I believe is Brooke Swan. And then we talk about month end close and that whole process and shifting it. That's a pretty good conversation. And then I interviewed Melissa Hoan, where we talked about some sales and marketing stuff. 

So definitely go binge. It's gonna be really exciting. I'm so pumped for the podcast. Like, I'm actually really excited. It's so different of an energy than last year. 

[00:32:48] Serena: Yeah. It makes a huge difference with those things too. It's just, yeah, the energy you bring, the energy you show up for certain things. Is it. It flows through in what you do. So I'm glad that you have a renewed energy about it and I'm excited to see what comes of it.

Anything else coming up in your world that you wanna share with everyone?

[00:33:10] Alyssa: So we have our, is it infamous or famous? Like do you say famous or infamous when you're talking about something that everyone likes? 

[00:33:17] Serena: I think infamous is kind of like, Almost derogatory, but like negative. I don't know. Honestly, I don't even know.

[00:33:26] Alyssa: Just, we're gonna just call it famous. 

[00:33:27] Serena: Let's just cut that out. 

[00:33:27] Alyssa: I like to make weird words anyways, half the time Anyways. So one of the biggest challenges that I put together for Workflow Queen, that people just love, love attending. I've been doing it for almost three years. It's called the five day free Workflow Building challenge.

And essentially it's five days. There's q and a sessions at night, and there is a morning teaching session. where essentially I show you everything from Tech Stack. We're gonna talk about things like Asana. If you use another project management system, don't worry. I'm gonna teach you how to get tasks, workflows out of your head, create goals for your, your firm, and really move it forward. And at the end of the challenge, I'm hoping that you have a little bit more clarity on how to document things, the importance of it, whether you are a newbie, or you are someone who are seasoned. We've had people from all different stages joining the challenge. And so those challenge dates will actually be March 27th through March 31st.

The best thing that you could do is just follow the link that will be in the show notes because I don't have the link available. To just sign up for the challenge. If you missed it, don't worry. You could be put on the wait list. But other than that, the only other thing that is exciting. That's coming to my life is you this weekend.

[00:34:31] Serena: Yay. 

[00:34:31] Alyssa: To my house. I'm very excited about it. 

[00:34:35] Serena: Me too. And by the time this episode airs this, that will have come and gone. Yeah. And you'll have maybe seen pictures on Instagram or something. So anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast again, and I can't wait to tune into your podcast as well.

[00:34:52] Alyssa: Yeah, it's gonna be exciting. Well, thanks everybody. 

[00:34:54] Serena: Thank you. Bye.