Is Your Life Random… Or Written? | The MJ38 Show #132

What if the moments you call random are actually trying to tell you something?

In this episode of The MJ38 Show, we dive into deep conversations around: faith, culture, motherhood, sports, masculinity, metaphysics, moral truth, trust, prayer, intuition, and the idea that life may be written by a grand author.

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In this Episode we talk about:
- Mother’s Day
- The spiritual power of motherhood
- Anthony Edwards playing with purpose
- Spurs and Lakers energy
- Trusting Christ
- Public evangelism
- Moral relativism
- Jordan Peterson-style axioms
- Corporate corruption
- The meaning beneath everyday life
- And why the things happening “under the hood” may be more real than what we see on the surface.

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This conversation moves between sports, culture, theology, comedy, philosophy, and personal testimony — but underneath all of it is one question:

Is your life random… or written?

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Transcript

unknown 0:08

You won't miss me. I'm a star, baby.

SPEAKER_04 0:11

One thirty-two. It's old and it's new. We're pushing in. We love you.

SPEAKER_02 0:18

It's okay. We're chilling.

SPEAKER_09 0:20

The angles change. But the vibe's not new.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Mm-hmm. We still hear following God. Do you want to uh start ourselves in a prayer?

SPEAKER_09 0:30

I'd love to. Let's go. Dear Father God, thank you for this moment to be able to hang out with my friend Justin, but also for the platform that we've been given and provided by you for all the viewers that are tuning in every single week and the viewers that are yet to come. Please bless these words, bless these thoughts, bless the stream of consciousness. Please fortify us and grant us occupancy, if you will, from distracting factors, from evil factors, from any kind of adversarial force that would like us to fall off of trains of thinking that are aligned and guided by you. Please give us an open heart, open mind, open ears to find the right ways to be for the trail that follows you to be pursued by us. Please lighten our spirit. Please take us to the place of the Holy Spirit so that way we can be guided into the kind of mindfulness that only exists when you're aligned with you. In Jesus Christ's name we pray. Amen.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:21

132. Life, culture, spirituality. What are we doing here? We don't know. Culture is doing things. Any culture things? We were talking about sports before. I don't know if we want to bring you back to sports again. It's just a relevant timeline in my or yeah, relevant uh element in the timeline. It's just relevant.

SPEAKER_09 1:43

Sports are cool. Yeah, man. Mother's Day is cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:48

Spirit motherhood. That's some love. Shout out to all the moms out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

That's some love.

SPEAKER_09 1:55

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

That's like God's love. And it likens that to that for sure, biblically. I forget what it was on Passered's uh devotional, like on Mother's Day or the day before. But something along the lines of God's love being emulated like that or thought of in that nature.

SPEAKER_09 2:12

It's right now people can accept or decline the responsibility of fatherhood or motherhood. Some people didn't have great moms for that. I apologize. But I do believe that there's motherlike figures out there that find their way to people that need that in the times of their life.

SPEAKER_04 2:30

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, someone pouring into somebody in their life.

SPEAKER_09 2:35

Yeah, for sure. Just giving feminine love.

SPEAKER_04 2:37

Yeah, that that love and acceptance. And then it's uh Isaiah 66.13. As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you, and you will be comforted over Jerusalem. Isaiah 66, 13.

SPEAKER_09 2:54

Can I identify the ideal spirit that comes along with motherhood? Even if you didn't have it in your life, I think you know. Everyone knows.

SPEAKER_04 3:02

It's like motherhood and fatherhood, or it's like the parental relationship to the female and the feminine or the masculine and the feminine. Yeah. How do you uphold those each individually optimally? Yeah, there's a natural inclination.

SPEAKER_06 3:14

I think we gotta do both.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Sure, of course. You can't just be a brute, you gotta be gentle too, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:22

Or helps be more well-rounded in that sense.

SPEAKER_08 3:26

It takes a lot of strength to be so gentle. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

There's bars.

SPEAKER_09 3:34

I I stole this from him, but I saw a video a long time ago who said that. But yeah. What more time what was it? It takes a lot of strength to be so gentle. Yes, facts. So something like it took years of uh Sheathing the sword correctly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, hopefully.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

But motherhood, yeah, knows uh it's biblical.

SPEAKER_09 3:56

Strange thing about motherhood. Second most visited day at church. Yeah. Busiest day in the restaurant industry, and the least crime occurs on the calendar year on Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

What's up?

SPEAKER_09 4:08

What's going on with that? What's going on with that? I don't know. The church one is weird because you understand Easter. Why are all the moms going to church on Mother's Day?

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Mm-hmm. The females have always, I think, been more receptive as far as culturally to organized religion, stretch, attendance.

SPEAKER_09 4:32

Moms are like, I want to go to church. Yeah, I should go to church with me.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely a trope. Or definitely a thing that's a social narrative point we all agree on. It's like, yeah. Those things happen. Those are objective realities and measurable metrics.

SPEAKER_08 4:49

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Whoa. I think all those things are pretty true, you know? Yeah. You can you could you could fact check us if you want, but like you know, I'm pretty sure it's true true statistically, and then what's that love thing we're doing there? You know? True on a metaphysical level. Yeah, dear motherly love. Yeah, everyone's going out to eat. Lowest crime rate, I've seen that before.

SPEAKER_09 5:16

I think nobody nobody's mom wants them to be a criminal. Kind of like ceding the mom's will a little bit, but they're more likely to not try to be your sinful self on Mother's Day specifically. Like we all have a soft spot for our moms.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

It's just there.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

I think it's just there. It's a true thing. Part of the nature of the nurse. Parenthood as well. Or you even be a father, but like, yeah, specifically motherhood as well. Both individually.

SPEAKER_09 5:48

Because you were in their stomach and they fed you.

SPEAKER_04 5:50

It's a little different though, because yeah, they like delivered you, or you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_09 5:54

Most babies were breastfed, so there's like uh a lot of the organic, like the true depth of that relationship. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:02

Yeah. It's yeah, it's deeper.

SPEAKER_09 6:04

Like eye contact starts with breastfeeding. It's like the board and not give eye contact to your baby while they're while they're breastfeeding. It's like the beginning of the origin of like the feeling of safety, which is has a lot of depth to it. Safety drives a lot of people's manifested behaviors based on biochemical inclinations. They're all seeking safety on some level, especially women. So I think that's a thing that is like separating perhaps from like motherhood and fatherhood.

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Yeah. There's definitely something there. Yeah. They both exist in a certain Roman category, but then I guess to a deeper nuanced level with the femininity aspect of it.

SPEAKER_09 6:52

Yes. Yeah, I think that it's where it gets a stereotype and it's cliche a lot, but I feel like the mom is like has nurture like the energies of maternal and what what is the fatherhood version of that?

SPEAKER_04 7:05

Paternal.

SPEAKER_09 7:06

Paternal? Is it just parent? Or is that specific? Father.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

Maternal.

SPEAKER_09 7:10

Maternal is definitely mother specific. Faternal? Faternal. I think that's a word somewhere in there. But yeah, I would say that with the mom is nurturing, with the dad, it's like defense. Like dads are way more likely to go step into the harm's way or to create order or to stop violence or to you know you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 7:30

Like incite violence.

SPEAKER_09 7:32

Right, yeah, right. Whereas the mom is more like nurturing. And I think that they're two different colors. Like it's hard not they're not the same color. But one person can embody both for sure.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Being channel wedding Mother's Day. Yeah, man. It's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_09 7:56

Anthony Edwards taking one channel back to sports. Mom passed away from cancer. Grandma passed away, I think eight weeks or eight months later from cancer as well.

SPEAKER_04 8:07

No way, really.

SPEAKER_09 8:08

Yeah. On the fifth day of different months. That's why he wears number five. He was like, I wasn't losing on Mother's Day, bro. Wasn't gonna wasn't gonna lose. It was fueled by something else. That's hard. It's hard not to he tapped into the right energy. I don't know what the Spurs are playing for, but if they should have been playing for their moms.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

Yeah, right, thanks.

SPEAKER_09 8:35

That was the that was the power that was the dominant energy that day was doing it for your mom.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

Yeah, geez Louise, man. That's crazy. And then we called that Minnesota mini moon ago. It's a weird, weird coincidental moment, some would say.

SPEAKER_09 8:53

Think about taking a road trip. Divine appointment. If gambling is legal in the place that I'm going on my road trip and there's a Minnesota game on Star Spurs Nation. But I've seen I've seen the stars. You know what I mean? The stars are line. Yeah. Minnesota's gonna cash.

SPEAKER_05 9:10

Cash.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Minnesota and seven would be crazy. But I think by the time this comes out, I think it will be over, regardless if they go to seven. Because six is tomorrow. I don't know. A couple more days.

SPEAKER_09 9:22

Guarantee it's either Thursday or Friday.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

I think it's Friday, maybe.

SPEAKER_09 9:26

Iceman will be out.

SPEAKER_04 9:27

Oh yeah, that's true too. Friday's gonna be a cultural thing. What's going on here? Them stars line. Them stars line. I mean game seven. He's probably gonna go to seven. Who knows? Oh no. Tuesday's Tuesday. I think it'll be game six.

SPEAKER_09 9:41

Um, okay, see, dude, Shy's a big drizzy guy. You seen Shy out there? He's always like in pre-game singing all the songs going crazy. Okay. Yeah, he really likes Drake a lot. He's gonna be fuel now.

SPEAKER_04 9:56

Yeah, okay. They're probably gonna close out tonight, honestly. They're probably gonna sweep them. So by the time this comes out, we'll know.

SPEAKER_09 10:01

I mean, for the rest of the playoffs, I'd be worried about that guy.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Yeah, okay. They're looking ridiculous. I don't want to say too much.

SPEAKER_09 10:10

The energy that you jump into is only so strong. The Drake energy is only so strong.

SPEAKER_04 10:16

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I didn't know that about Anthony Edwards. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_09 10:21

I read it this morning on the ASPN.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_09 10:23

Shout out reading. Let's go. Reading's just powerful. Reading, duh. I love reading ESPN. Reading is dope. I read way more headlines than I watch games. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 10:38

Mm-hmm. What's the narrative of what's happening here? Who knows what's really gonna be happening? But yeah, it's um they're looking rough. They're looking tough to beat. I think this works can do it. We'll see what's up. I am like a Lakers fan at heart, but I was like, uh they're not they're down, they're down their best part. They're down Luca. And Luca's, you know, kind of game-changing. Yeah. So if you if we had him, it'd be uh different story. The game would be different. Yeah. Yeah. He's different like that, but it's it's probably not gonna happen. So but it is cool to root for the Spurs, though. My wife's a really big Spurs fan, and I like how I grew up not hating them, but like always having adversarial energy towards them because they would always meet with the Lakers in the playoffs.

SPEAKER_09 11:24

Sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

So it's cool to have this like dynasty like re-emerging, or like the idea of like the who the Spurs were back when they had, you know, the big three. Sure.

SPEAKER_08 11:32

And it's like, dang, sometimes that was cool times, yeah. Right. Colts are still waiting.

SPEAKER_04 11:41

But now they got this super talented young core headed by this alien.

SPEAKER_09 11:47

Yeah, their depth, I mean, their youth is the thing that makes you the most excited. You got a lot of time left.

SPEAKER_04 11:55

Yeah, God, Willie. But they're all young, and this is uh a lot of the first times in the playoffs, you know. They're all 19, 20, 21, 22. What a time to be alive for these kids. So like over the next five to seven years, it could they could do some damage, you know.

SPEAKER_09 12:14

They could do some damage, you know. Damage.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

Damage. Yeah, so it's cool to root for the Spurs in this era where they're having like this new dynasty, and it's like brought into my life in this in this regard, where I was as I was used to be growing up a Spurs fan or a Lakers fan.

SPEAKER_09 12:33

You're kind of giving a pass to enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 12:35

Yeah, I was like, nice. Yeah, this is our dynasty, bro. We're looking good, bro.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Yeah, yeah, it's fun. This is cool.

SPEAKER_04 12:45

Yeah, they love their Spurs down here in San Antonio big time. Sure. I'm here for it. Grew up a Lakers fan. I got to enjoy the 0.4 second shot from Derek Fisher in the playoffs. I got to enjoy that. Sure. As it happened in real time, as a Lakers fan. I was like, yes. And that was devastating for the Spurs. It was in San Antonio. I was on the yeah. I was like, ooh.

SPEAKER_09 13:11

I'm there with you because that was crazy times. I was a Heat fan. I had no smoke with the Spurs. Y'all fine. I don't care. Like who you like. Then Ray Allen hit that shot. Spurs fans did not like me anymore. Nothing. I was like, I don't even care. Like, it's it's cool. I don't I can let go of the heat for you guys. Like, it's kind of arbitrary for me. But yeah, same thing where I was like watching it with Emilio, who's rooting for the Spurs, and he was just like heartbroken. And I was like, oh no. Fuller extremes, dog. He's hurting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:48

But you gotta give the person the respect to cheer because you would want the same. But then don't do nothing gross about it.

SPEAKER_09 13:54

He knew I didn't care that much, so he's like, shut up, bro. Shut up, bro.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

Just like enjoying it. Oh, rough, bro. Yeah, that's uh that's a that's crazy.

SPEAKER_09 14:08

But so that's funny that we've both seen Spurs heartbreaks in our lives from the other side. Yeah, I think I was rooting for the Heat in that game too, because I was like, I'm not really a Spurs fan.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

Not really a LeBron fan either.

SPEAKER_09 14:19

It was also, yeah, big three trying to do it. They were the big three, and they had Ray Allen. Crazy. Crazy team.

SPEAKER_04 14:30

We need you to hit some threes, fours every once in a while, friend. Can you do that? I could do that. He did. He did that. He did, he did that thing. That's why Ray Allen gets like extra, extra sauce on it. That's a big shot, boy.

SPEAKER_09 14:43

I was talking to the two-a table who knows me well. I was like, they're like, You guys still have that German chocolate cake? I was like, I'm so sorry. We're really trying to bolster American-made economy here. No more German chocolate cake. Just just trying to freestyle, you know. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_04 15:02

I'm here for it. Great line.

SPEAKER_09 15:04

I was born in Germany, actually. Oh, I'm sorry, man. There's a lot of phenomenal German-engineered product at this table. And I was like, I looked at my friend who knew me well. I said, I I like to shoot, you know. I like to shoot. Uh I know Ray Allen puts up a lot of shots, and when I struggle to be Christ-like, at least I try to be Jesus Shuttleworth like, if you will. And that that hit him. I got him back in that moment. Okay. Which was nice. Ray Allen's nickname is Jesus Shuttleworth. Jesus Shuttleworth? Yeah. Wait, what? It's like from a movie or something, but that's his nickname was Jesus. Ray Allen? Yeah, Jesus Shuttleworth. So it's like when I failed to be Christ-like, I try to be Jesus Shuttleworth like. Okay. Which got him. But it wouldn't have gotten you. And then I've been double in a hole. Oh man. But yeah, I think I think it had something to do with the time where Reggie Miller at the time was calling Jesus Shuttleworth? Shuttleworth. Shuttleworth. It's from a movie or something.

SPEAKER_04 16:04

Okay, okay, okay, okay. This is before our time.

SPEAKER_09 16:07

But you know, Michael Jordan was Black Jesus. And then someone else was called Carmel Jesus. And Ray Allen was Jesus Shuttleworth. I don't know why. Okay. But sometimes you'll see a Ray Allen jersey and it says Shuttleworth on the back.

SPEAKER_06 16:17

Who's Carmel Jesus? I'll find out for you. Um for all the fans that are wondering. I'm here for it.

SPEAKER_09 16:26

My credibility is on line right now. I'm about to get on triple hole with my fan base. Oh no, here we go.

SPEAKER_02 16:32

That's funny, I never heard of that. Oh man, dude. Celtics back in the day had a team.

SPEAKER_09 16:51

Let's see. Shuttlesworth. It came from the 1998 Spike Lee movie He Got Game, where Ray Allen played the main character, Jesus Shuttleworth. Shuttlesworth.

SPEAKER_04 17:03

Okay, so that's a character he played in a Spike Lee movie? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 17:07

The nickname stuck because the character was a legendary basketball prodigy, and Ray's smooth shooting style fit the image perfectly. And then uh the nickname Reggie told a fame Reggie Miller told a famous story where he trash talked Jordan early in the game. Then Jordan exploded for 44 points and told him, Don't ever talk trash to Black Jesus. After that, Reggie said he started returning to as Jordan as Black Jesus. And then I heard another story just later down the line when Reggie Miller was talking about another guy, and he was like, That's Caramel Jesus right there. Which one was that? I don't know if Chad J didn't know.

SPEAKER_04 17:45

Oh man. Okay, but we were talking about you talking about this too with the table. Telling a story about a time of joke landed's a dumb thing to do.

SPEAKER_09 17:54

But Ray Allen was the thing.

SPEAKER_04 17:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Starting the movie. It would not have hit on me, though. Like, what?

SPEAKER_09 18:04

I was at a sandwich shop the other day, and the bartender at the sandwich shop was trying to rent.

SPEAKER_04 18:09

Sandwich tender. The counter tender, of course. She was just sandwich artist.

SPEAKER_09 18:17

It's a sandwich shop, and then there's like a bar inside the sandwich shop. Okay, I'm with you now. Yeah. So she's like literally like serving alcohol behind a bar. Okay. And then sandwich shop. Yeah. Okay, ward. Yeah, yeah. It's cool. It's cool. It's nice. I like that spot. I'm there with my friend. We're went on a hike, eating a sandwich. Sandwich. Sitting at the bar. Sandwich bar. Ladies riffing. Bar sandwich. She's missing. Oh no. She's scrambling. Scrambling, no. Light scramble. You could just like you ever been like freestyling and you're like, nope. Nope. Alright, let's rhyme rhyme scheme change. Nope. Nope. I need pest beat. It was kind of like that. But it wasn't, it was just, then she was like, you know, I just try to like get in the flow state. I just try to, I just try to riff. And sometimes I'm not riffing well. Sorry, guys.

SPEAKER_06 19:10

She was gonna shoot. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 19:13

Keep shooting. You keep shooting.

SPEAKER_04 19:16

Shooting socially here.

SPEAKER_09 19:17

Yeah. It's I was like, you know, the cool thing is the more you talk to people, the more you riff, the better you get a riffing. It's like reps make a skill set.

SPEAKER_04 19:24

Yeah, sometimes you feel it as a server or waiter. You're just like, sometimes I'm just hitting some riffs. Like I'm expressing information in a in a way that I'm not exactly prepared to express it 100%. I don't have it fully articulated, so but like uh I'm about to just start saying something in regards to this thing. And here starts my stream of consciousness. It's like uh sometimes you gotta think about it for sure and trying to make the right decision. Sure, flow state, but comes out of you don't decide. Yeah, you gotta be hitting stuff off the hip sometimes.

SPEAKER_09 19:55

Dude, I've walked away from a table and been like, well, excited for them to leave. I just missed everything I was trying to say. They think I'm a dumb kid. Oh no. Sometimes you just whiff, sometimes you're out of it, or sometimes you're just like almost tapped in, but not tapped in. Like rimming out every shot you take.

SPEAKER_06 20:15

What's the right thing to say?

SPEAKER_09 20:17

Get in the zone, don't decide. Come into me. Yeah, well, that's well, they were trying to play it. Somebody make an argument, you don't always tell the truth.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah, at least not lie.

SPEAKER_09 20:29

Do I look good in this dress? I only have eyes for you.

SPEAKER_04 20:34

You know what I mean? The same shake. Yeah, there's always why Jordan says just don't lie. I guess there's like the I think I think there's definitely the thing you know is like an obvious lie, or an obviously a bad way to uh to pitch information or respond to questions. Of course, of course. Even if the question is do I look fat in this dress?

SPEAKER_09 21:07

Taste, grace, comedy, these are all tools you can use. Time tacting in tone. Come on. Come on. Just give me stank face. Yeah. There's always there's ways you talk to people, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Being there's another quote that says uh Honesty without grace is brutality. It's like you can't just like levy the weight of the unadultered truth on people all the time because it's like almost abusive. So it's like you need to grace grace and truth structure.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Oh yeah, dog. Yeah, man. It's good it's it's kind of funny being yeah, I think we we've mentioned it before, but you're kind of like a stand up. Comedian, whenever you're like a server, you know, to a degree. You're kind of like performing for these people, talking to these people, conducting the moment. Like definitely I'm gonna control our time here. At least not control our time, but I'm going to be kind of in charge of managing our time here, making sure what you want is executed well, whatever that means, as expected. Your expectations are met or exceeded. And it's like we're we're doing that with all of our stuff. Hopefully you go to a good game, or hopefully you see a good fight or a good movie. And if you're not, you're like, ah man, that kind of sucked. Someone's in charge of that time slot that you're consuming. You go to a stand-up comedian, you're paying whatever to enter the club, and then you're hoping that it's achieves the something, there's some sort of expectation there. It's like I'm gonna enjoy this to a certain degree. It'll be worth it, a worthwhile expenditure of time. Yes. And then you go to a restaurant, you're trying to celebrate something. I'm gonna go to this place to celebrate this thing because it's gonna be a worthwhile expenditure of time and resource. And then they entrust us with that, or they entrust a comedian with that, or they entrust a basketball game with that. Yeah, it's harder to find like the soul. But then you go to church with that. Church is there. Worship, praise, heaven and energy. Doing that, serving in that name.

SPEAKER_09 23:28

Yeah, presentation's the best word that I can use, because like basketball's weird because it's like a game. It's like who's putting on the game is harder to like. But when it's church, it's like this guy is leading the worship, this guy's leading the service, or like this guy's delivering the act. Mm-hmm. It's the joke teller man. Yeah. Yeah, then you get put in that spot of like giving the presentation as a server. Like, although they give you the light or give you the focus or give you the moment, and you have to achieve the desired outcome for all parties while you hold it.

SPEAKER_04 23:59

Yeah, it's like a movie, or it's like each individual role of the movie. It's like the person like directing it and producing it and acting in it.

SPEAKER_08 24:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

Yes. Like all that are represented in in the idea of the movie. There's like Scorsese movies or uh Tarantino movies or Spielberg movies, James Cameron, whatever, whatever producer, director, combo, or combo. I guess they're all directors. I'm sure they produce as well, whatever that means. By the way, the person I'm giving the person we identify as the creator of this content or this whatever.

SPEAKER_09 24:31

Like the script writer is also not always the director. It's like usually the director's the person that gets credited for like the creation of the movie. They take the money from the producer, take the script from the script writer, then they direct the recording of the actors, and then usually also edit it together, throw stuff out, leave stuff in, say do it again. Yeah, the director would be the guy for movies. But the Matthe McConaughey gets all the credit, which is weird.

SPEAKER_04 25:01

They also gotta act in it. They gotta make it come to life. They gotta spit the bars on it.

SPEAKER_09 25:07

Oh McConaughey is out there, bro. You hear him talk recently lately? McConaughey? He's just out there on what? He just seems like a Ferrari. Like you're trying to be like, son, man, how's coffee today? It's like coffee, coffee brings you up. What brings you up can take you down. What takes you down, I'll bring you right back up. Jesus Christ rose on the third day. How many days is it gonna take you to rise? What? Push it like that? Jesus is the me part, but pushing C? Oh, okay, no. No, no, but it's just like it's always like a like a diatribe of an answer. It's always like he's telling some kind of southern like uh like metaphor answer for what he's saying.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

Yeah, something deeper than necessarily socially is uh asked for. It's like talking to fortune cookies. There's dropping bars.

SPEAKER_09 26:05

Patience is a virtue, virtuous man, conquer the world. Conquers the world.

SPEAKER_06 26:09

Conquer yourself.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

Okay. I could write this guy's dialogue. Would you like uh cheese on your sandwich?

SPEAKER_09 26:21

Always get into the cheese, gotta get to the paper. Need money to do what you want to do. What do you want to do is be happy. Money can't make you happy. Money can't make you free. But you know what can't make me happy? A little extra cheese on my sandwich, so that was just free, baby. Actors are uh just some Jim Carrey lately. Seems a little lost in the actor's sauce. Telling what he's on. I have no idea, dude. I can't trust any of them.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

I don't know what's going on with anybody. Boom. But myself. And that's even barely.

SPEAKER_07 26:56

That's true. Mm-mm. That's true. I don't know, man. There's just a lot going on. Trust is a weird thing. Pushing out of life.

SPEAKER_09 27:06

Harry thought he couldn't trust Snape. Yeah. He could trust Snape more than he could trust a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Trust is a weird thing. Harry. Trust Christ. Trust Christ. There you go. That's it.

SPEAKER_06 27:22

That's all you got sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 27:24

That's all there is.

SPEAKER_06 27:25

That's all it's worth getting by definition.

SPEAKER_02 27:29

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

It's just the answer.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Christ. That's it.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Yeah, man. It's gonna be weird. Uh have you ever like tried to evangelize somebody just like in public or like ask people about their relationship with Jesus? Every time I'm out. How do you what's your typical go-to for this kind of encounter? And is it with strangers mostly or like uh coworkers as well? But what's the go-to?

SPEAKER_09 27:54

Usually I'm talking about life, and then we're talking about life, and then it gets to a they have a misaligned axiom. And then I'm like, well, you think this because of this? Well, for instance, I'm at the bar the other day with my homeboy. The guy sitting next to me is friends with the friends, and we end up talking about the stuff, and we get into a good conversation. I love it. And he's telling me basically he believed that like uh he believed in is-ness, right? Like the yogis do, just consciousness, there is no right or wrong, there just is is-ness. Everything's an exploratory phase. And um, this is me defining his axiom. He's telling me about like his decisions and what's going on in his life and why he thinks this was right or wrong or whatever, and he's also evaluating what I'm saying, and then I melt down what he's saying to like this is what I'm hearing. And I'm like, you know, um, I I think it's we can clearly define some things that are right and that are wrong. There is a right and wrong, in my opinion. Um, Jordan Peterson will go straight to the Holocaust, straight to the death camps, straight to the gulag. It's like the gulag's a good example because it's like um not only were people dying, but they're being like tortured. You know what I mean? They're not just like killing them humanely, they're like maniacally with a very evil spirit enjoying the torture of people. Okay, that that's that's wrong. We can decide that's wrong. But also, like, this guy said he had a self-destructive nature, and I was just like, I'm sure you could go back in your past and find a moment when you exercised this self-destructive nature, and then you did something that if you could go back, you would do differently. And then if you wanted to, you could define those two different timelines as a right one and a wrong one. And I think that even you right now would be like, Yeah, I did I chose like the wrong thing. And he's like, No, just exploratory. I was learning. I'm like, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_04 29:42

Well, one thing is I can make good of all things for sure.

SPEAKER_09 29:45

Absolutely. But it's time to put childlike ways away, scriptural based.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 29:51

It's like a child is in the exploratory phase, certainly. But at a certain point, you're not supposed to be childlike exploratory anymore. So I need to introduce this like biblical axiom into what he's saying. And then to get there, I'm also like every moment of your life is uniquely tailor-made to you through synchronicity and serendipity, constantly putting you into a place where everything lines up so that you can have a derived meaning based on all of your previous life and all of your future life, all kind of combining into a right now. That's written by a grand author. Okay, like your idea that like we're living in random chaos that is just moment-to-moment exploratory process. Um, when you put those things up next to each other, which one feels more true to you? And he's like, Well, that's a great that's a good argument for sure. And I'm like, even this convert, this conversation right now, I'm sure, is serendipitously synchronistically aligned. What are the odds of us talking about this right now? Sometimes you're just in traffic and you're like, this doesn't feel very written by a grand author. But it's like, it is, it was, it always is. And the thing that you're doing with your frail human, we're all frail, we're all vulnerable, we're all looking for virtue signals, we're all looking for role models, we're all looking for behavior to embody that we put together with our ego something that we'd like to be, in my opinion. But what you're doing there right now, it sounds like with your axioms, is you are saying that there is no control over anything at all, and you think that that gives you some kind of control, but in reality, that robs you of a better derived meaning of being able to pursue the right things, of being able to have more order in your life. But what you could do is instead of saying there's no control, there is a control, there is a grand author, and then you surrender your will to that grand author. So instead of having no control to take control to getting robbed, you say there is control, I give up control, and now you're provided with more meaning. So the end result for you would be more meaning, more order, more structure, things being more cohesive, making more sense to you. But it starts because you want to claim that there's no control, there's no grand author, and that's coming from a place of like uh, why are you doing that? To me, it sounds like you're hurt or a lack of maturity, or you'd like to um if there is a grand author, there is an obligation to surrender your will, and I don't think you want to surrender your will. Based on the other interactions in the bar, it feels like you want to feel like the biggest, the biggest. And so, like you're putting other people down a lot, but then if there's something greater than you, then you would have to like be humble, you'd have to be humble to them. Be humble, you'd have to adhere to sit down, and then ultimately like when I put those two things up next to each other, like which one sounds more true and which one would you really rather have? And it's like and his book is like it's less about what I'd want to have and what does exist. And I'm like, okay, well, let's take it back to the right or wrong situation. Like, as you truly evaluate through your life, are there rights and are there wrongs?

SPEAKER_04 33:01

And then, you know, this guy was things you wish he didn't do, and things you wish it did do that you didn't do. This guy's also going through marital trouble. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 33:09

I'm just asking an objective question. At this point, I have his back against the wall. Yep. You know what I mean? Kind of in a headlock. And then I have to decide whether or not I I want a triangle. Are you gonna tap the social repercussions of tapping him out? And then at one point he goes, All right, all right, all right, let's change the subject. And I was like, he tapped out. So I'm like, no, even with that being said, so that's not me being like, Jesus loves you, Jesus wants a relationship with you, Jesus wants to know you, Jesus, like those are kind of cliche evangelistic terms. Of course. But I try to have these like metaphysical conversations where I dig into their axioms and then I try to give them a better axiom, and that axiom is always rooted in Christ. Um does it work? Like never like never. Like I've come to terms that it never works, actually. It's all I think it takes maybe uh thousand straws to break a camel's back. And sometimes I'm just putting another straw on a camel's back, and then eventually this conversation that they'll never remember is gonna be one of the straws that broke the back of their ego and gave way for Jesus to enter their life.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

You gotta soften your heart. He can soften it for you.

SPEAKER_09 34:20

Put a little fabric softener on that heart.

SPEAKER_04 34:21

He can soften it up a little bit for you if it's show. I think that's all you're ever doing. But you gotta be willing to let it be softened, man. I think you gotta choose the heart in your heart. Or maybe they get to imposed on you that's a temptation as well, part of the temptation energy, that side of the spectrum, that pulling force, or uh a negative downward pulling force. There's uh I don't know, there's an opposite of that too, but what were we just on?

SPEAKER_09 34:54

Evangelizing people. Do I evangelize people? I can't get into conversations without trying to evangelize me.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

I mean, like, softening harden your heart. Sure. It's like Pharaoh. Pharaoh was his heart was hardened. I think we choose that.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Or it's uh, I don't know. It's presented.

SPEAKER_04 35:18

I think Pharaoh just is embodying the characteristic of someone who has their heart or like is uh running away from God. Because we all are to a degree, you know. Rebel nature. Mm-hmm. The rebellious nature that is within us from our most early conceptual conceptualization of right and wrong or doing having an enjoyable experience. Yes, absolutely. We're just trying to push for more enjoyable experiences as like a culture, you know. It's like we should probably have indoor plumbing, we should probably have some AC, we should probably have some houses or some tents or some teepees or whatever to get started. Some sort of shelter. JBT? You know, we're just in advancing it and make a more enjoyable experience, a safer experience, like the human experience.

SPEAKER_09 36:05

So we do want to make it better, like inherently motorcycles, those aren't making things safer, but we do it. I don't do it. Might make them better, maybe not safer. Safer's not better. Yeah. You know what I was saying? Yeah, but there's optimal challenge between safety and we like recklessness.

SPEAKER_04 36:23

Chaos and order that needs to take place. The balance.

SPEAKER_09 36:27

They got fruity. Pause. Sort of taste is taste of rainbow over here. Juicy fruit! There's something there, yeah. The balance between chaos and order is real. Our our need to step one foot and one arm into the chaos.

SPEAKER_04 36:42

Mm-hmm. Do I find the most meaning? Find the most challenge, the most engagement, employment, like meaning. Sure. Yeah, sorry, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_09 36:52

Corporate America is not always looking to make things better, trying to make things more efficient, cost less, provide more. That's better in their eyes, but it's not objective better per se when there's a balance.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Yeah. There's a balance. Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:12

Is there a balance corporate America or being a business, being an entrepreneur, trying to I guess we're all trying to increase our value or net worth or like our skill set, or maybe not our skill sets even, but no one wants to make less money.

SPEAKER_08 37:29

Sure, sure.

SPEAKER_04 37:30

If you get to choose, it's like, hey, next year you get to make more money or less money. Everyone will choose more. No one's like, yeah, I'll like consciously decide to lose or you like uh accrue less and lose some money on purpose, knowingly willingly and do that year after year.

SPEAKER_09 37:48

As a Christian pursuing businessman, I think that there's an optimum line where it's like you can't really push it anymore. Like this business in this market, providing this service at this level, taking care of employees at this ratio, you make about nine to ten million dollars a year. Um, going over that threshold, asking for 12, 13, 14, 15, eventually you're gonna start slashing something away from what you got going on. People that work for you will make less money. The product or service that you provide won't be as quality. Um, it's gonna you're gonna be taking from something to provide to your pocket somewhere down the line. Unless there's things that can happen, like ingenuity of marketplace or new technology, um, cheaper ingredients, things like that. But you could decide to use lower quality ingredients to make more money, but then you're taking away from your product. So it's like an optimum product and optimum service, optimum pay scale to uh that gives you like a rough what we should be. Like you gotta be okay with that, you know. Like make motorcycles, this motorcycle company makes 20 million a year. You try to make 23 million, people are gonna die. What the motorcycles, you start slashing safety, you start doing less tests, you start using cheaper parts. It's like eventually, like there's gonna be you keep trying to push the agenda to make more money, it's gonna be some downside somewhere along the line. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:11

Yeah, it's all optimum and it's all out there, and we are trying to claim that we know how to get to it.

SPEAKER_09 39:21

Yeah, that's where it goes. To a degree. So it's like what's the heart of the board of directors? Who's going?

SPEAKER_06 39:25

What are they doing? What are they deciding?

SPEAKER_04 39:26

Who's it who's influencing, what's influencing these decisions? The decisions of the people in charge. And who we get into places, bro. Yeah, the the Nick Shirley stuff is crazy, dog. Just the idea of what he's doing and the idea of what's presenting itself in response to what he's doing is just like, in and of itself, enough to say, whoa.

SPEAKER_03 39:47

Whoa. Russian mafia pushing corruption's out there.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

It's not zero.

SPEAKER_09 39:58

No, it's not zero percent. Wait, dude. Oh my gosh. Hell no. They crucified Jesus. That was like corruption in the flesh, parasitical corruption, Roman corruption. It's like, yeah. We will every now and then destroy the ideal to collector's ego. Yeah. Yeah, like Rogan Rogan was talking about there's a car that had the gas tank right by the fender, and if you got rear-ended, there was a percent likelihood the car just blows up. Fucking kills me for all. Pardon my language.

unknown 40:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_09 40:34

Yeah. So you know, like, instead of recalling the car, they had run a cost analysis that it was cheaper to pay off everybody's family that dies in this type of car accident than to recall the car that would result in your death.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Great example.

SPEAKER_09 40:50

Yeah. They don't always exist so like uh poignantly. But that's pulling it.

SPEAKER_05 40:57

I knew it was right when I said it. It's pulling it, dog.

SPEAKER_04 41:02

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah, like we can't agree, right? That that's kind of like, how do you feel about that? Yeah. Is that the right thing to do? It's like, we save more money, but then there's like a right thing to do. Right. So what's under that?

SPEAKER_06 41:17

What's under the hood? What's under the hood? Not a gas tank.

SPEAKER_09 41:23

That's on the trunk.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

But yeah.

SPEAKER_09 41:25

Yeah, that's like a great example of that. That's messed up.

SPEAKER_04 41:27

That's one of the themes that's included somewhat in that movie with Justin Long and uh I Love You Wild. Uh no, that's what Just say. And Turk. I forget. Don't face long. Yeah, what's it called? The drug. What's it called? Superman. I forget. I forget what that movie's called exactly. I'll look it up while you told it. It's a great movie. Justin Long and Turk. B plus. From Scrubs. Saw a movie, but there was an idea presented in there for sure that was uh when he was tripping, he saw these, like the the spirit of the people who were like the insurance company or whatever was going on in the narrative uh created, where in which their job was to try to save as much money as possible and then not rip people off, but what you know, trying to do whatever they gotta do, rearrange narrative, however they have the rearrange narrative and truth to selfishly get more money and uh what the spirit of that looked like embodied on this, like this uh place where he saw different energies or different expressions of human behavior. He saw like the soul of it versus the actual like words that were coming out, yeah, like the under the under the abstract layer underneath the what I'm saying under the hood, I'm talking about the hood. He saw like under the hood. Like this is the hood, we live in it. We live in the the car, this is it. But then there's something metaphysical. It's it's the abstract, the thing that's influencing the thing that we're in right now.

SPEAKER_09 42:59

Yeah. One thing that helps under the hood, it's hard to understand, but it's important to understand that under the hood is more real than the car. Yes. That's hard to understand. It's like I was talking about like the t-shirt, like what the t-shirt represents, the idea that goes into your mind is more real than what the t-shirt has graphically on it. More real than a t-shirt. You're more of a billboard at that point than a person with a shirt on.

SPEAKER_04 43:23

Yeah, yeah. We're all walking billboards, though. Yeah. We're all walking billboards.

SPEAKER_09 43:28

That's more real than you wear clothes sometimes. Yes. Like that is way more real. Even though it's not real.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

He can't measure it exactly. Yes, yes. You can't conceptualize it exactly.

SPEAKER_09 43:43

It's hard. I'm trying to get them to. We're trying to get in there. We're trying to get in there. I take for granted that I know that's truth, and I realize that's like somewhat of a abstract, definitely an abstract concept. It's super foreign to a lot of people. It's like the representation of the thing is more real than like is this an apple or a picture of an apple? It's like uh It's a picture of an apple. It's not an apple. If you're looking at something on a phone, you know what I mean? Like you hold an apple and then you hold an apple. They're not the same thing. But then like. But the phone's an apple. No, it's like that was a podcast, boys. That was crazy, bro. No, you yeah, in fact, no, that's God, you just like tickled my brain, bro. Just got me for all. No, but like uh but the idea of like the fruit in the garden of Eden, it's like more real than like I don't know. We're getting away from what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to say like that the representation of a thing and then the physical thing itself are two different things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:41

There's like uh the words we're using to describe the thing and like the thing itself, it's like we're we're saying it's it's it's an apple or like uh but in a in a different language, in a different part of the world, they use like something else to express the same idea. So like the idea that we're both expressing through our word of apple or manza or whatever the language is, it's like we're all just those are all just expressions of the wick what this thing is. Yes, yes, and so that that that thing is more real than the thing that is is that we're calling it. You know what I'm saying? The fact that we're all calling it something, yeah. Right that we agree that this exists.

SPEAKER_09 45:18

Or like here's the easy one too, is like if you see a t-shirt with like the alien logo, like you're not looking at an alien logo, you're looking at like a representation of Wimbanyama. So it's like, but when you see the alien, you don't think alien. You know what I mean? You think Wimbanyama. It's like that that is real everywhere. Like a movie that about what's a good movie that has a good metaphor. Like Shawshank Redemption isn't about Goodwill hunting, right? It's not about Boston, it's not about like uh a janitor per se. It's like this I the struggle that this person is going through right now. Can you like relate to that? Or like moneyball is not about baseball, you know what I mean? So that's important, I think, when we talk about metaphysics, because I'm also like constantly talking about metaphysics, and then people will be like, the hell does that even mean? I remember I didn't know what the word meta meant like in high school. Like Abed was saying it all the time in community. I don't really like know what it meant.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

Yeah, they uh one of the guys at the men's conference was like, What's metaphysical? We're talking talking about our podcast. You know, I was like, we talk about events and things that happen, like in narrative and things that like cultural things people are talking about, but then also we talk about life, those things, life, but like our experience of experience. We talk about it, but then talk about the things like underneath those things that are happening, and potentially whether like how these things are influencing those things that we're seeing, or what these things mean at this level, just derived from the culture down, or our own story down, or whatever. But yeah, I felt the that's like the first time I've ever really felt the like an expression come out or like a pushback on that sort of like what are you talking about? Yeah, like under the hood. I didn't say that, but kind of what we're talking about now. I was like, we talk about stuff that's going on on the hood, but then we talk about under the hood. Yeah. And he's like, What do you mean under the hood? Yeah, like car go go.

SPEAKER_09 47:11

And you look under the hood, it's like engine. And you look at like into the engine, what's happening? It's like fuel's being burned.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

The user manual, yeah, right. The user's manual, whatever it's called, owner's manual, yeah. And that's a Bible talk, yeah. Right. And that's a Bible talk.

SPEAKER_09 47:28

Yeah, fuel, fuel getting burned is like explosion creates acceleration. That's car. Car is explosion creates acceleration. And that thing is usable in other things. But like service level is just cargos. Same thing with the Bible. It's like, why'd this happen? Why'd this happen? Why'd this happen? Why this happened? Love wins. It's like, oh, okay, love wins. You can use that in other places. That's axiomatic. Axioms also a thing. It's like sometimes I feel like I need to explain that one. Oh, you know.

SPEAKER_04 47:57

Yeah. I think that I think is true at a super deep level, in which it influences like my behavior, right?

SPEAKER_09 48:04

Like what you believe. Because you could have axioms that are misaligned, but you still believe it in it in it. It catalyzes behavior.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. The things that yeah, induce your behavior or like shape your behavior to a degree.

SPEAKER_09 48:18

Yeah, like I think everybody lies, so I don't trust anybody. The axiomatic thought is that you think everybody lies. But it's like that's misaligned. Or maybe it's true. Or how aligned are you? Oh, it gets deep. Maybe everybody does lie, but what do you do with that? You know?

SPEAKER_04 48:35

How do you handle that? Yeah.

unknown 48:37

How do you handle it?

SPEAKER_04 48:39

It's out there the possibility of non-enjoyable existence of suffering. You trust, anyways. You got to.

SPEAKER_09 48:49

It's a virtue. It's not easy. That's faith. That's real faith. Yeah, it's difficult to swallow that pill. Get to chewing on medicine. Tastes terrible. That's what needs that's Jordan Peterson. I posted on my story the other day. It's like medicine. Gratitude. How do you be grateful for this life? How do you be grateful for all the terrible things happening all the time? It's a virtue. It's a practice. You you you do your best, you know what I'm saying? You strive for it. It's like that's cloutworthy in my book.

SPEAKER_08 49:18

Yes, cloutworthy.

SPEAKER_04 49:21

JVP. Pushing JVP, dog. I was like, boy. Admirable. There you go. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's noble. That's some real noble stuff.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

That's a normal noble noble story. A worthy main character narrative to play out, a worthy story to be the hero of.

SPEAKER_09 49:46

Donald Faison, Justin Long were in three movies together. At least. Were? Almost like, give me the movie. They're like, oh, you're definitely talking about shenanigans. And I'm like, no, I'm not. Oh no, sorry, waiting. German. They're both in waiting together.

SPEAKER_04 50:02

Donald Faison's in waiting? Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_09 50:06

And then they're both in a movie called Kicking at Old School. And then the movie we're talking about is The Wave. The Wave. That's what it was. Yeah. Movie's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 50:18

Because we called it the Wave movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:20

Feel wavy dog.

SPEAKER_04 50:23

Maybe you can feel your intuition tingling.

SPEAKER_07 50:25

I do be feeling wavy.

SPEAKER_04 50:27

Yeah, I felt it yesterday. Just like driving to church. Or like when we were in church, really, no, it was when we were in church. And then throughout the message, uh Mother's Day service, shout out to Pastor's wife. She was the one giving the sermon. But uh there's a portion where she was just talking about more or less just giving your kids to Jesus or like giving them or being able to do it individually, individualistically within your own story to do that to your child, but then also like for your child to like do that as well through their own individual story. That's outside of your influence, because you do have a like a range of influence and say so, especially for the first you know, 18 to 25 years. But then after a while, they're kind of on their own running like running in simulation. You know what I'm saying? Like they're you're logged in. Aren't you like 30, 40 years old? It's like I've been in this for a minute. Like you're doing your own thing now.

SPEAKER_09 51:12

Oh yeah. Big time. And nobody's telling you to clean your room.

SPEAKER_04 51:16

Yeah, no, it's it's it's a different level. It's still there, of course, but everyone varies in their story or their experience of this thing, thing we're talking about. What is there?

SPEAKER_09 51:25

Of course, of course. The ideal, we'd all want to be there. You can always bring up examples that counter what we're saying, but the ideal is that by the time you're 30 or 40, you're running your own square.

SPEAKER_04 51:35

Yeah, so she was just talking about giving your like pushing your child to Jesus, hopefully, and they're able to like legitimately accept it and like put pursue that on their own as well. Because your salvation can't necessarily save them. It's the thing they need to do within their own psyche. I can't do it for you. Like I that's what makes us different almost. Like that, that's like a level of separation that we agree upon. You know what I'm saying? I can't really change your heart like that. To change your heart, like it needs to like the thing I'm referring to, the words I'm using when I say heart, like the metaphysical thing we're talking about there. You know, like the change your heart comes from a different place that I can't get to from here. I can help it influence you, and hopefully you can accept it. But even in that, like I'm that that's super lucky. It's ultimately like, or not lucky, but that's like a super optimistic scenario for evangelical preaching or for just like talking to somebody, trying to get them to soften their heart and not harden their heart to the idea that like there's something outside of your heart, outside of this physical world that's going on here that's more control than you could ever possibly imagine. Who should we look starting to get with that thing?

SPEAKER_01 52:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:37

Well, I can't really change your heart. It's kind of like the limitation we all agree upon that makes you an individual, a mean individual. So it's like I can't really force things upon you, or like I can to a degree. It's like what like tyranny is and dictatorship is. We are imposing our will at a super kind of almost gross level or whatever, depending on, you know, at the upper at the upper limits, it gets gross of where that slippery slope leads to. Yes, it does. So um I can't really make you do I can't make you like love me or respect me, you know what I'm saying?

unknown 53:09

I can't do it.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

Love it. We're different.

SPEAKER_04 53:12

I can't make you love Jesus, or I can't make you accept love into your heart.

SPEAKER_08 53:16

Love Christ.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

I could do my best, but ultimately it's something that comes from you. So to do that for yourself, to give that up, then hopefully your child adopts that and carries that in the name of Jesus as well. It's just like that is uh that's what's up. I think my foundation's good, she's good.

SPEAKER_09 53:34

It's foreshadowing of her talking about her daughter too. Like, I had to like let go of like trying to like control her perception of her own experience, yeah, and like give it to God in my own story and be like, God, please, like walk into her life, give her your presence, protect her.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

Yeah, yeah, you gotta pray over someone for sure. But it's but it's funny because that even leading up to this church service is in my heart, or I had like the inkling, like maybe a couple days before, to just like ask Jazz, like, have you like given your life to Jesus? Like, give her that, like, just just think about that. I'm not even like accusatorily asking you this, or like there's no consequences in this question. Like, we're all trying to figure it out. Like, I'm still trying to figure out what that means 100%. But I just asked her that question on the way to church, and I felt like that the desire to ask that question a couple days before, and then I'm sitting in church, and then Stephanie's talking about this thing, and I was just like, I'm feeling wavy dog. Like tears welling up. This is this is this is beautiful, you know? This is meaningful, this means something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 54:39

Yeah. No, I feel it too. I feel the when I feel wavy, it's like when it was dumping rain last night, I felt like the the transitional choices leading to outcomes. It's like little breadcrumbs. Like I get a little breadcrumb and I'm like, I think that might be true. And then I eat a little breadcrumb and I'm like, I think that might be true. And I think I need to act this way. And then all of a sudden, like, I feel like the the storm outside, like dumping rain, and it like lines up with all the little breadcrumbs that I ate in this way that makes me feel like, ah, like I know.

unknown 55:26

Like I know.

SPEAKER_09 55:27

I know what I'm I know that the bread what what the breadcrumbs are leading me to believe is being confirmed by things around me. Same thing with like Iceman coming out while I'm thinking about going on vacation. It's like and Minnesota probably playing game seven that night. It's like I'm like those things are like I feel like I know I could bet on Minnesota and they would win that game and that happens on that day.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

I think that would be game six, actually, I think. But either way, no yeah.

SPEAKER_09 55:55

Good, even better. It could be can hit the bed and not have this person lose the series.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Yeah, I don't want to think I think I misspoke earlier when we were talking about it. But uh they do play on Friday though. Because that's the day that the Drake album's coming out, yeah?

SPEAKER_08 56:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:11

Yeah, so game six is on Friday for sure. For sure. If you'd like to make some we'll see, we'll be we'll be talking about it the next time. By the time this comes out, it will have just happened. But so we'll see. This person might win it that night, or the wolves can win it that night if they win the next two, or they could be pushing to a game seven. So we'll see what happens. Either way, by the time this comes out, let me see when okay. So if that does happen, game seven would be does it come out after this podcast? I know it'd be Sunday. So this is gonna come out the day after game seven, if necessary. This is gonna come out. Thank you.

SPEAKER_09 56:49

Spurs and seven, wolves won game six. Pull your wallets out. I wanted to bring you something big.

SPEAKER_04 56:54

Spurs and seven, wolves and six, wolves and the six. The grand author Spurs, Wolf Spurs. Yes.

SPEAKER_09 57:03

Pull the wallets on Harley.

SPEAKER_04 57:06

That shit pull the wallets and put five on it.

SPEAKER_06 57:09

I got five on it.

SPEAKER_09 57:14

The grand author writes conversations and moments into your life. Your perspacity isn't yours and yours alone. Sometimes you're collecting data, you're feeling things, your intuitions working with your learning model that is inside of you to grant you insights into things that are outside the realm of regular perception. Then sometimes your percipacity becomes inspired, and you become inspired to notice something and make a connection to something that you wouldn't have made that connection to. But that's not enough. And then a little more happens over here. And then the first thing starts to feel like foreshadowing. And then like a bigger moment comes up where you do something a matrix, like what the simulation of you would normally do. And instead you do something different because of the like the inspired personacity, the breadcrumbs. That's what I was trying to allude to earlier. And it makes you make a decision that maybe you wouldn't have made before, which put puts you onto a different path to maybe break a cycle or have an experience that is written for you by this grand author. But I feel these windows open and close sometimes, where it's like not every day is there a window for you to like get into a new reality per se or do something different or break a cycle. But like you feel I I can feel like that thing that happened in that con, like I saw this thing happen over here when I was out drinking with the boys, and it made me have a thought. That thought got reconfirmed by a conversation that I had with my friend over here, and then now there's a physical choice I have to make between two things. And I feel like I would normally do this, but because of those two things leading me to believe something different and new, I'm going to choose the thing that I wouldn't normally do to see if that gives me an outcome I don't normally have. And I think that that's a way that God is working on you if you're open to that, if you're willing to not be the same beep boop broomscape bot. And then sometimes my propacity, my per capacity to find the breadcrumbs themselves, I feel wavy when it's happening. It's also an aligning force to make me know like this is important. It's like you're going next to a key item in a video game and like you get a little vibrator in the controller. It's like you're like, oh, okay, like I thought maybe, and then that makes me really think maybe. And then you could just call me a crazy person, but I see that's where it gets borderless schizophrenic. Attila be that lady talking about having a third eye open. Like, I don't know what that means, and I don't really believe in anything that's usually associated with that kind of connotation. But I do think that yeah, man, I got touch and feel on this beach uh, and the more you're open to it, the more it hits. They need discernment to not go into schizo place. Are you vibrating your own controller?

SPEAKER_04 59:45

Discernment and wisdom. Yeah. For real. Yeah. For real. Mental concepts that we can not measure, like physically, scientifically. These are metaphysical things, Michael.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:03

They're illusions. It goes into the is this argument. It's like I remember when I was in high school one time, and I was kinda talking to a girl that kinda had a boyfriend. Who knows? I'm not like making out with her or anything like that. I feel like there's something there. I don't know about it. In athletics, we go out, we're running the 400 meter that day. There's a bunch of heats, and I'm in the heat with her boyfriend. Okay. And I'm just like, I'm gonna fucking win. I don't know how to there's something on the eat. There's something on the line. And whether or not something was really on the line there. Last hundred meter stretch, I'm gutting it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:49

Gutting it deep.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:50

And he's next to me.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:51

And I'm just like How many lanes are you over? One.

SPEAKER_09 1:00:55

Yeah, he's in one, I'm in three. And there's nobody in two. Oh, okay. Are we past him or whatever, you know what I mean? Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. And I'm just like, you know, 80 meters left, not really pulling away, 70 meters left. I'm just like all the nitrous I got, and I'm gas. So there's like a natural, like like of course I like none of this matters, you know what I'm saying? It's a fucking sorry, pardon my language, but like this doesn't mean anything. There's no gold medals getting handed out, you know what I mean? Like it's not the Olympics, no. No, we're just getting like a rough time. So I could easily shut it down a little bit. I could easily just like give in to the exhaustion that I'm feeling. And now, but there was something on the line for me personally. Don't know why, but I committed myself to believing like it's important that I win this because I feel like if I want to have a shot with this girl, I need to beat this guy in this race. Don't know, don't know. But I like dig deep, right? And in the last 50, I start pulling away, and then I finish strong and I win. And I felt in the air like whether or not he was fighting with me for his girlfriend. He was definitely trying to beat me in that race in that moment. Like it we were there was just no one else to compete with at that moment. We were just like the only people because there's like separations of speed and stuff like that. But ours were times were pretty close, and so uh, but yeah, but then like a week later, she like broke up with that guy, and then like we started dating like a month after that, and it was like my high school sweetheart. But I felt, for whatever reason, like this mattered. Now, this changes the narrative here.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:23

Did it did it though? Did it it does it? Literally, but did it though?

SPEAKER_09 1:02:27

That's the thing.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:28

The world may never know.

SPEAKER_09 1:02:31

Did it though? If I would have just shut it down and gave it. Literally did, as far as your movie, it literally did, for sure. Like the narrative of the times and who was faster and what happened that day was a different outcome. The truth of the past. Exactly. But did it result in the following things happening?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:53

How could it not? How could it not?

SPEAKER_09 1:02:56

Is this random?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:57

How could it not?

SPEAKER_09 1:02:57

Random chaos.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:59

Random chaos. See that because there's the truth in that that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because God's got it.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:06

So in some aspect it doesn't matter. Like there's an element of truth within that as far as like the chaos element of like uh these are just things happening.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:14

It's like, yes, there are things happening, but there's a better way.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

There is a way for these things to be better or to for things to happen better, more enjoyable, whatever that is, less suffering. We can help bring that here. Or we can choose not to, and choose to bring it here for the sake of doing so and enjoying the depressed process of doing that. Like that's ultimately hard and heart, you know what I'm saying? Ultimately, completely hollow and heart, hardened heart and hollow.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:47

What's hard and hollow at the same time? Pharaoh's heart.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:51

Pharaoh's heart dog.

SPEAKER_09 1:03:54

I think it does. I think it did. That's what I'm saying. Like the gulag, bro. There is right and wrong. Come on now. It's a it's a what are we talking about? It's a childish argument. I'm sorry, my friend. You're wiser than me, older than me, richer than me. But it's a childish argument that there is no right or wrong. It's a hurt argument. It comes from a broken place where you don't know how to contend with bad things happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Because bad things happen all the time. That's definitely like the most commonly popular criticism, you know, of a good god. Of course, it's like the obvious next question. You know, it's definitely like a very valid argument. It's got a valid point behind it. Validity to the question, the actual suffering itself.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:46

I think it's the best that he could do, and that might not be an apologetic sentiment. It's awesome. This is awesome, actually, that you have the opportunity to influence, that I had the opportunity to gut it out and give more and find more. And I could have felt sorry for myself or felt tired. And then, like, you'd I'd be like, oh, I don't like this game. It's like, no, but the opportunity to be able to give more and find more is phenomenal. Thank God that there's some kind of influenceability, that your free agency can be used for your embeddement. Would you rather have it not be so? It's like, no, you just have to get low, accept, accept your current constraints, ask for forgiveness for your sins, and then decide you want better for yourself. And nobody wants to do that. It's like the ultimate hard thing to do. Yeah, why is it so hard to do that?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:26

It sounds like it'd be a great deal. It's like a great time. Come on now. What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_09 1:05:33

It's the ego. The ego doesn't want to bow down to a higher power and say, I was wrong. Mm-hmm. It would have to die. That's why it doesn't want to. It's death, it kicks and screams.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Mm-hmm. The heart and heart, running away from God for real.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:52

But it can meet you anywhere, mate, anywhere, anytime.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:55

He's pursuing you. He's pursuing you.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:57

Sometimes you get knocked off the horse on the way to Damascus.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:59

That's why I love it. The creation of Adam 16th chapel where Adam's hand isn't fully extended, you know what I'm saying? And God is like reaching for him. Yeah. But the rebellious nature in us doesn't like fully extend our hand. For whatever reason. Whatever reason. Why is it that way? I don't know. I'll ask God when I'll get there. I don't know why it's that way. Just join me in my moment of prayer real quick. Please.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:22

Father God, me and Justin, me personally, everyone listening to this podcast, the people around me that never will, please just give us a heart and a spirit that would reach out our hand a little further than we might without a little bit of inclination from the Holy Spirit. Please, please, God, give us the kind of interaction or interface with the Holy Spirit that would allow us to just gamble, just gamble for a moment on what could possibly be if we were to reach out our hand a little bit more towards you, to put down our human ways, our egoic ways, the things that define us in a negative light, just to just to subside them for just a moment to give us a glimpse into what could be if we were a little bit more properly aligned with you. Jesus Christ's name I pray. Amen. That's all that's all I can do for these people, man. That's all I can do. That's what it comes down to. Because you're not gonna knock the guy, you're not gonna knock Saul off the horse. It's like Jesus Himself has to do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:20

Yeah, you're gonna have to make character.

unknown 1:07:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:23

We rebel from that. Well, because we because we are, and we're like, no, I'm in here. I'm this, I am experiencing life.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:28

It's like, yes, but there's something deeper, there's something under the hood of the life you're experiencing.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:33

It's like, oh it takes faith to step out of that place mentally. Bold moment of desperation sometimes. We try to have influence and inspired moments from the Holy Spirit to give us the proper words to say some stuff to somebody in the moment that they need to hear it for something that to click in their to soften their heart. Whatever that is.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:57

And hopefully we get that.

SPEAKER_09 1:07:58

And thank God when that happens. You ever successfully evangelize somebody?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:02

No, I never like try to like evangelize anybody, but I know like people like I'm like when they think of me at work, I'm definitely the person that like goes to church or like it's like that sort of stereotype or that that character. I'm married, I go to church, and you know what I'm saying? Like I never like he's a he's a he's a God fear, man. Because you know, people go out to to drink or whatever. I'm just going to work, I'm going home, chilling, competent, just doing what I gotta do, being helpful, being humble, and just trying to execute But then yeah, definitely like uh the Christianity. I I've invited some people to church for sure, but I never like really evangelized anybody, you know. But I did pray for my I've been praying for people more often. Or I guess I pray for my boss and a perfect set of guy, or I think I told you all last time. But that's been like a thing that we're doing now more, just like presenting in my story. The idea of like preaching, or not preaching, the idea of uh praying. It's like let's just let's just talk. Let's just let's just hop into the thing that we're allowed to hop into now. This thing's crazy. It's kind of been our whole like up upbringing for the last like ten years. Ten years plus. Just freestyling in college and just every every conversation is really a freestyle.

unknown 1:09:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:22

More or less.

SPEAKER_09 1:09:23

Constantly freestyle.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:24

Yeah, you definitely have stuff prepared and have a direction you want to go, of course, of course. We love that. We love the direction, we love good movies, we love good stories like that. It's more of a story presentation, but there's also something in the stream of consciousness that podcasts are doing now. That is just capturing the thing that we've always been doing. Just this the power that's in our tongue, the power that's in our words, being felt or being expressed.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Uh inhibited. Una inhibited. You heard this?

SPEAKER_09 1:09:57

You seen the clip of Sha LaBeuf talking about you know how to pray? No. It's like first thing you want I don't want to curse on the phone. First thing you do is shut the hell up. It takes me about five minutes. Just keep telling, stop, stop, stop. And then guidance comes to you. For me, it sounds like John Madden. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. He's like, wisdom kind of like fills my system and like you know, holds me and loves me, and tells me what I need to think and do and what I where I should be what I should be praying for. I was like, kind of sounds like meditation to me, honestly. But it's just it's funny.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:40

What do you want to call it? What do you want to call it? I think it's thought is prayer, dog. You know what I'm saying? There's no difference.

SPEAKER_09 1:10:47

There's no difference. Attuned thought, attuning into the Holy Spirit frequency.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

There is a channel, there is a you contribute contribution that you contributed for so can help direct it. It comes in these moments of prayer where you like try to stop thinking about other things and then consciously try to direct yourself, whatever your essence and yourself are towards something else. It's like I'm stopping my stream of thought and then I'm gonna tune into this channel, this frequency. So there's a difference or an interactive element in that aspect. But even whenever you turn down from that, you're still just like back here. It's still like the same, the same significance, but we can't be doing it all the time. Or, you know, like just be in a yoga, a meditation forever. You gotta live. You're in this body, we're in this thing, we're in, we're experiencing time. That's just facts.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:38

Sadhguru's testimonies. It's like time dilation for him got very weird to the point where you could be in a meditative state for what feels like eternity and come back and it's been three days or it's been like 30 days.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:51

Yeah, I remember him saying something about that being in a meditative state for like 30 to 40 days. Yeah. Sadhguru. I was like, what? Yeah. What are we talking about here?

SPEAKER_09 1:12:01

So uh, you know, I don't really I think he's the way that he carries himself and conversations leads me to believe that he is not who he claims to be. I think he was in the Epstein Files. Really? Maybe.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:17

Allegedly. That's a bigger legend to throw.

SPEAKER_09 1:12:20

Allegedly, Yana. Yeah, so yeah, so so yeah, you know. Um, but he's also one of the big proponents between this is this conversation. And I just don't buy it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:35

Yeah, I don't want to be wrong on that accusation, but I'm pretty sure he's in there. Reaching for the show. I was making sure I got the right the right second hand, third hand, fourth hand passed down information incorrectly. I can't remember remember where I even remember that from. But I remember seeing it somewhere.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:01

I also think hearing it somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:03

It was it was him praying because I remember hearing the name, and it was either Sadakuru or someone in that realm of like yogi kind of category.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:14

There's another thing too, is like when you're talking to God, like it's a different, different channel of you. Yes, you know? Now I'm not doing that right here right now. Like when I was like, hold on, I need to pray with you guys. Like I went to like another place of me.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:28

Turn into 99.5 the B.

SPEAKER_09 1:13:31

Yeah, for sure. FM. That's a powerful place. So that's a place on which you can call in the name of Jesus. Uh like I can call in the name of Jesus right now, but I'm also entering like a little bit different frequency when I like there's a part of my spirit that's like call on the name of Yeshua right now. It's like I feel myself go to like a I'm I'm more spiritually active right now. I just flicked on my spirit, and I'm like trying to do spiritual protectiveness or spiritual damage sometimes. I'm trying to like, you know, fight off an evil force or uproot a uproot a stronghold or enact a good force from somebody, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:05

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:10

Yeah, duh. 30 or 40 days in a meditative state. But meditation is so then, okay, so I think just in general, like on the grander scheme, we're talking about prayer being like indistinguishable from thinking. Because even whenever you're praying, what are you doing? Like you're thinking. I think that's like the the ek uh the mechanism in which it's expressed. Or you're praying out loud with your words. By the way, you have your words and your thoughts all the time, anyway. So treat them with the same reverence and you would like hold towards prayer, I guess, to a degree. So don't be flippant in your speech or just you know, in your thoughts either. Yeah, yeah. It's important. I think that's what I'm gonna try to point to. Do you know a Deepak Chopra? Okay, no, that's the one. Deepak Chopra. Yeah, I don't know how that is. Chopra. He wrote, I'm pretty sure he's uh 12 Spiritual Laws, author of that book. Big sh uh, a book that Big Sean is a proponent of, kind of mentioned that in his upcoming. I've read it. It's like advice or like uh kind of practical ways to just treat life. Not scripturally based. I'm not even sure if he's referring to any other type of religious book, it's more just like a psychology, or not even psychology, even spirituality, abstract. It's in the same category as like the alchemist on the um the four agreements and stuff like that. In my mind, I put this in the same camp, like the power of now. I was like, this is stuff that's like there's wisdom in it, you know what I'm saying? There's there's wisdom in it. Practicality behind it. So that's nice.

SPEAKER_09 1:15:58

The scope is so 360, right? Like Saadguru mentions that intellect is a cutting instrument, it's like a knife. You can't use a knife to when you need a hammer. There's something that could be used as true there. Like you can use words to that's kind of what we're doing, just making it practical. Sure. There's like a 360 degree on all these things, like a panoramic view on how to use these words. And I think it aligns with like to not worship false gods, because like the 12 spiritual laws, like you're saying, like you could take those and use them in a sense that's worshiping a false god. Like what you're serving isn't the right thing to serve, but you're using wisdom per se. So like there's things in these books that might be true or close enough to true that you could apply them and find result. Same thing with the 48 Laws of Power. It's like my number one book in this category that I'm trying to describe, is like there might be things that are true in there and it's also useful tools, sure. But I think that the spirit in which the book was written, the spirit in which the book is usually received, aligns someone to use them for ways that I wouldn't think that you should use that wisdom for. It's like I feel like you're serving a false God in that sense. So I think like the scripture is the best spiritual laws, or like yeah, and ultimately any of the wisdom that leads to real truth is just pointing at Jesus. Real truth. It's like I kind of was referencing like Anthony Edwards tapped into the most dominant energy that day. It's like we're all tapping into something. Well, if if you're competing at the highest level and it's there's true competition going on, like if you don't tap into anything and I'm tapped into something powerful, I'm probably gonna win. But like, let's say, like, you know, five people are all tapped into something different. It's like there is what's gonna happen as they clash and as they clang. It's like the most powerful energy or the force or the most dominant is the one that's going to dominate, especially if we're at equal skill set, because there's a spiritual factor involved too, like your motivation, or like that's why like the power of love is like real. I was like in love with that girl or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:01

David was gonna hit him, dog. David just had to hit him, dog. What was he tapping into in that moment? Tapping into Yeshua, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:09

The one that can't miss. Uh Elijah tapping in Yeshua. So Anthony was tapped into like love for his mom. Like Jesus' love.

unknown 1:18:17

Powerful.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:18

Mother's love. We talked about it earlier. Powerful. I like into God's love, a like into a mother's love. We're talking about that at the beginning, femininity, the delivering. Oh man.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:28

When I was running for that girl, it's like on some levels tapped into something akin to a love. He could have been tapped into something more true than me and found more in his tank than I did, but I think he was tapped into a negative force. And then when we really put them on the line, like mine was more I don't know, we're all animated. What are you animated by? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:48

That's a question.

SPEAKER_09 1:18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:50

That's a question. And it's like your animation. What spirit embodies you? What spirits are you embodying?

SPEAKER_09 1:18:56

These are the questions, Michael. Questions, illusions, these are the questions. Yeah, the wrong spirit will only take you so far. But Jesus right to the cross. You know what I mean? Which is also like um that's where it gets put on a sacrificial sacrifice, self-sacrificial suffering.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:16

Suffering through self-sacrifice. Life itself. It's a paradox. When we die, it's a whole thing, it's gonna happen, we know what's happening.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:27

We're animals that know that. I don't think animals think about that at that level. They know they're dying, I think, whenever's happening, potentially, but you know something different, different kind of animal.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:39

Yeah, like they want to protect their kids, like from what? You know what I mean? Like death, I guess.

SPEAKER_08 1:19:44

So a thing about death on some level, but no.

SPEAKER_09 1:19:48

It's like it's that's the thing, the animating force of Jesus, like you could be motivated by low-level frequency selfish greed, a goic desire. It's like to be motivated and animated by Jesus Christ, which is a paradox that leads you to self-sacrifice out in the name of love. It's like that's just such a more hyper-real thing. It's like so abstract that it's incredibly hyper-real. It's way more powerful.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:15

Hyper real JVP dog, it's hyper real, bro. It's and all I can do is give it to you in words, and words are just little freaking what are they called? Label makers. You know what I'm saying? We just put a label maker on these things.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:31

You're right. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:33

I remember the things we're putting the labels on it. Way more real than the label that we're using to put on it. Just pointing to the thing. It's as good as we can do, it's all I can do. It's all I can do for you.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:44

That's all I can do.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:46

Why are you gonna say leaving a bar one time after I was hanging outside with some folks from the bar who were hanging outside my car? Talk, talk, talk, talk, get to Jesus, talk, Jesus, talk, Jesus, talk. Because I have some I'm like, man, you got a good spirit on your kid. Like, you got that kid, he was like my age. I was just like, man, like, do you ever want to like go to church? Like, you should I'd love to invite you to CBC, man. Like, I feel like you would these things you're wrestling with in your heart. It's like the answer's Jesus. He's like, no, I'm not really a church guy. And I'm like, well, your heart is plagued with questions that only Jesus can answer. Like Jesus is the answer to everything you're struggling with internally. He's like, Yeah, no, I'm with it. Uh I respect God and I'm Jesus, but like pursuing that relationship is like not me. I'm like.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:37

Exactly. I'm like, when you get to that.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:41

You need to die. That's the evangelism part that I was like, ah, it's rough.

SPEAKER_09 1:21:48

So hard. I'm just like when you when you'll continue, sorry. When you're out of answers, or like when you're when your back's against the wall and you have nowhere else to go, go to Jesus, go to church. Like that's gonna be the place. And that's what I always feel like is like eventually there's just people are just gonna have to like desperately cry out because doing it their own way is not gonna work. But I remember leaving, just like praying to Jesus, be like, gosh, I want these people to know you. I want that guy to know you. Like, I want him like step into his life if you can, but it's like there is no way to like make him know you, you know what I mean? Other than like, no words, tie him up and take him to church. I don't really know what to do.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:21

Drag him to church. He's not like you know, you do do that with your kids a little bit, you know. So you can't do it with like a and then at some point you can't do that with your kids anymore to a degree. That's what we're kind of alluding to earlier. I can't just take a random, like you know, kidnap a random stranger, take him to church with me. Hold him hostage. I can do it kind of socially, or you can do it like manifestly. It's like, I don't know, yeah. He likes this girl. I'm gonna get this girl to go, I'm gonna get the girl to ask him to go. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:49

That's deep. You feel me? Yo, you really try to evangelize. I hadn't got that far. I gotta use the narrative, dog.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:58

But no, there's a there's a well, I was talking about that respectable. I gotta use the narrative.

SPEAKER_09 1:23:07

Um it's also like manipulating someone to get them to go to Christ is like counterinteling. I can't get them to know you really, though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:15

I could do that, and that's like trying to architect and maneuver and trying to influence this the narrative based on the narrative or trying to enact, act within the narrative, what's narratively possible here. How can we frame this thing? What could we do? How can we organize ourselves in a plan of attack? But what attack could work?

SPEAKER_09 1:23:37

Bill Belichick in over there. We'll send the outside linebacker that makes them shift to the right side.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:45

I see the half step, son. I see a half step. If you can beat him by half step, you're gone. We need that half step. We're getting home. We're getting home. He's gonna dive at your ankles. I promise you, he's gonna dive at your ankles. They break that, you're gone. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:01

I don't know, man. I think like my dad playing the piano, going to church, celebrating Easter, celebrating Christmas, um, listening to gospel music in the car, uh, my dad becoming a pastor, going to Glen Lake church camp several years in a row. Then, like by the time I'm 16, like I'm like, yeah, like I want to give my heart to Jesus. It's like all those things, you know, like feeling the Holy Spirit at Glen Lake, like uh feeling like my mom's worship time with gospel music was like powerful and real, like sharing that with me and be like, no, we're gonna listen to Kirk Franklin right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

It's like, okay, I'm despicable. Like, bust some of this, boss some of this, yo.

SPEAKER_09 1:24:44

Sorry, I'm popping the mic, but that's like that music, like getting like excited for Jesus in the car, like listening to Mercy Me too. Like, I don't know. All those things were like little straws in the back to like give me this platform that allowed that that allowed me to jump into the pool that is Jesus. So I think sometimes with like kids, especially, it's just like you gotta build a platform for like a long time because you're not just gonna be like, I can't just like introduce him to you, like this is my friend Jesus, and then you're like transformed, you know what I mean? As much as that would be like how we want to like in one moment like evangelize somebody.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:18

Yeah, it takes time.

SPEAKER_09 1:25:20

God's gotta cook, he's into cooking. Sometimes I want to be like some parts are more hardened than others. The way you'd cast out a demon? I just want to do that to people. Just start prophesying over somebody. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:25:39

Dan dolls are trying to do whatever we're like, we're we're praying, we're like sending someone praying for someone's blessings or whatever. But trying to like come on, do the things.

unknown 1:25:50

Bang.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:51

But whatever. Whatever you got, it doesn't even matter. Hey, what's going on here? They're banging. Construction going on downstairs. Like Tim Allen, bro. Yeah, home improvement, bro. Apartment improving, bruh.

SPEAKER_09 1:26:02

I think uh my godparents did prophesy over me as like a child, and like I felt the Holy Spirit like in my body, like physically. I felt like God. And I was like, yo. Wild. Three or four. Wow, you remember this? Yeah, for sure. They were like, that's crazy. We want to pray over you. And I was like, uh, okay. And then they were like, yeah, but like I want you to like um to pray with us. Like, we want to read scripture, and then I want you to like say the scripture with us. And I get nervous and I'm like, well, I want to put this Afghan blanket over my head while you guys do this, because I'm nervous and I want you to see me. What's an Afghan? Uh it's the crocheted blanket with like the holes in it that's not really a blanket. Got it. You can really sleep with it on the couch because it's not like it's got like the holes in it. You know what I mean? It's holy. Yeah, it was a holy blanket. It was. Like you could literally put your fingers through it. You could put awful five, all ten of your phalanges right through those holes.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:02

It's one if you can get your toes in there.

SPEAKER_09 1:27:04

You could for sure. Um, it's like more of an old person's blanket in my mind. I don't even have any because I don't like them that much. There is actually one that's um kind of close to it in my room. I could show you. I'm with you in a Afghan. Um praying with these folks. Right. So three or four years old. Like blacked out away from them. It's like, I've got a little bit of coverage, but I can still. And then they're like reading the scripture that's like, um, and I tell my dad the story all the time. We're talking about it. I don't know the scripture by heart or which one it is, but I saw it on a billboard the other day, and I was like, that's a scripture that they read to me that day. And it was about like um, I think it was like maybe like the armor of God, or like it was what was happening is they were describing like the armor of God or a breastplate or something like that coming down and like whatever it was gonna do to me, right? Like protect me or whatever. And they're saying this, and I say it, and I feel like physically feel shoulder pads like slap onto my chest. Like a coach was like, these will fit, boom, and like. Slap both of the shoulders of the shoulder pads that were on me, and like it tripped me out a little bit, you know what I mean? Like for sure, was like, yo, there's something to this. I don't know. As a kid, I was just kind of like shook. I was like, God's real. You know what I mean? But then, like, what that meant to me as I continued down the path, it's like still not just like, okay, I have a relationship with Jesus Christ now.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:22

It's different.

SPEAKER_09 1:28:22

You know what I mean? But but yeah, as a kid, my godparents, holy people, prayed over me, prophesied over me, read that scripture with me to me, same time, and I felt like God like interact with my life, and that was cool. That's real, you know what I mean? Testify to that happening. Yeah, the power of your words, yeah, the power of the word. The channel that they were in, really invoking the Holy Spirit, really invoking Jesus to step into my life as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:52

Yeah, so what is like the and you did that with thought, and then with thought in prayer, and then we were talking about prayer, then also like meditation, because Thomas Shaila Buff's meditation techniques or like or prayer techniques, I guess is what you refer to it as earlier. Or like, what is prayer? But it feels kind of like, yeah, meditation where he's just like, 'cause I I could the the practice of like sitting and trying to quiet yourself and like keep yourself still and like stop the thoughts from intruding and controlling what you're kind of almost feeling in like the where the thought space is and try to like to consciously express the self-will within that part of your expression. Like you you can do it, you know what I'm saying? But it takes time, like you gotta like stop the thoughts or analyze the thoughts as they're coming in, like pick them up, put them down, and get back to just like trying to try to be a non-think, or at least like consciously at the gate of your mind, you're like, What's coming in? Who's coming in here? Who's coming in here? I am nothing, I am the task. Yeah, like any thoughts that like you start to pick up thoughts and put them down, or like project thoughts at the door. You know what I'm saying? Like, no, I'm not gonna think about any of that. I'm just trying to get with myself, or like with Jesus, or with God, or the moment itself, the now itself, the baseline of the generative experience, the thing that is generating the experience, trying to touch that thing and trying to stop influencing it with your thoughts, or have your thoughts populate or take over your field of awareness. So I think it's a skill you have like mentally. But it's definitely um it's not really prayer though, because prayer is more of a like expressive thing with with your thoughts. You know what I'm saying? Yes.

SPEAKER_09 1:30:28

I think he was describing meditating, but I think he was probably saying he accesses the prayer channel and then meditates there, and then he finds wisdom that's outside of himself, and he was trying to share that. He was using convoluted words. But I think that there is the meditation thing is crazy because there's no telling how much of your thinking is just like your ego. Like when you meditate, part of it is like you are thinking thoughts, and then it's like kind of like impulsively thinking thoughts because nothing's going on. And you stop like the impulse to think thoughts, and they're still like Did you leave the stove on? What are you gonna have for lunch today? Like true thoughts that you should have. And like turn those off too. And then if you've got all of those turned off, apparently there's something else there, and that something else there is worth tapping into, and you can't really get to it without turning off all the thoughts. But a lot of majority of your thinking could just be like those egoic impulsive thoughts gone steroid yoked because you spent 30 years thinking that that was thinking. And like I ask myself these questions too, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, you're this running narrative you have in your head might just be you being like neurotic, you know? So like sometimes it's good to just like be still, so that way you can like separate are you being neurotic or are you thinking? But um, I do I am interested if going on this thinking about getting out into the mountains, just like meditating, meditating. I haven't in a past life, I have meditated where I drained myself completely while I was on some extracurricular mega multivitamins. I swear I left my body and I encountered God. Like I was like on the edge of being like, I would love to present myself to God right now, but I'm like not worthy to do so. And then I felt myself be like, I'm pretty sure the entire teachings of God means that like you God doesn't think you're not worthy. Like, when would you ever be worthy to talk to God? Like never defined by your definition of worthiness. So then like In truth, none of us ever. Right. Yeah. And then it was like then I felt like okay, like uh present. And then I was like, Yeah, for sure. Like jump in the cold pool. It was like the same kind of feeling, and then it was like I was just like in all white, everything was white, and then there was like a white like circle, and that circle was like talking to me, and then inside the circle was like not exactly white, maybe like gray-ish type colors. And then I was just like, in real life, I was sitting like cross-legged, and then like I was still sitting cross-legged like in front of this thing. And then immediately it's like I'm not worthy to be called your son. Like, I'm sorry. Like, uh, I I haven't I haven't been everything that you've called me to be. I could do better. I apologize. Forgive me for my sins, pretty much. And then this God, I don't know, there wasn't like confirmation for me that like, yes, you I don't know if I was just like tripping balls, you know. Like, God was like, I'm so I'm so proud of you, my son. And like everything that you have ever done, when combined with the constraints that were surrounding all of the things that you ever had to deal with, massively great job. Like, seriously, you're doing a good job. You're not you're not taking into account all of the things that are going on around you while you're trying to do your best. You're just like, my best isn't the best that I aspire for myself. I must be falling short. I think you're doing a great job. And I was like, Oh my god, thank you. Like uh, what does that mean? Uh like release. I felt release. Unconditional love. Yes, yes, and then I like came back to reality and was like, whoa, like still kind of like sobbing, but more like wonder struck at that point, you know what I mean? Coming to encounters, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:38

It's like even um entering that felt as if you were talking about like a dream that you had, you know what I'm saying? Sure. It's like what's the difference, really? No, sometimes we just dismiss them a little bit easier or whatever.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:51

But you feel you feel something, we feel things here in this life, man. You can't tell me you can't tell me you don't feel things. You're here.

SPEAKER_09 1:34:59

Dude, speaking of dreams, yeah. Last night, yeah, I'm in a classroom for some reason. Okay, and in that classroom, Pat McAfee comes in. Patters, he's like, I'm Pat McAfee, I'm gonna talk to you today about greatness. I'm like, fucking sick, dude. Oh my god, dude. Nobody knows who he is. And I'm like, you guys are lame. Afterwards, I'm like, Pat, I'm like a huge fan. I don't know why none of these people know who you are. Um, tons of questions for you. One, how come you've never been on? I think I say, How come you've never been on this podcast? And then I'm like, Well, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You were on that podcast, you talked about this. I I'm I'm nervous. How come you've never been on Joe Rogan? He's like, I don't know, man. Like he doesn't want me. Or like, your guess is as good as mine. I'm also disappointed that I've never been on Joe Rogan, but I kind of had to like let go of that. I was like, heard that, man. Well, like uh, okay, what uh what's Halliburn like? And then uh afterwards he's like, You're really cool, man. Like, I don't really do this like for anybody, but like uh give me your phone number, and I was like, uh okay, and I'm like, and I'm like, Pat, I don't know what my phone number is right now. I don't know why I like pull out my phone and then like find my phone number. You were able to operate within your dream, your phone? Yeah, right, it's usually hard to do, but awkward because like I go into my phone and then like I open it and then for some reason it's on like an Instagram baddies page. Like I was like thirst cramming, and then I'm like embarrassed. No. And I'm like, and then go to my phone number, find it, and then like the longer I'm take taking to do this process, the more he's like, maybe this is a bad idea. Of course.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:52

At least it's what you're thinking. He's thinking.

SPEAKER_09 1:36:54

He's also like, I feel his energy becoming more panicky about like I should have maybe I shouldn't have done this. Who doesn't know the phone number? Is this the one I want to associate with? And then I like give it to him, and I'm like, Yeah, sorry, please, though. This is like the coolest things that happened to me. Like, I'm sorry, I'm just like a little star struck right now. And then uh and then I'm like, why didn't I remember my fucking phone number? And then what's like my real phone number? Like once I got there, you know what I mean? Okay, it's like of course it was that. Like, oh, okay, it's it's that here too. Okay, it's not even like derived, yeah. And then like I woke up like right, like as soon as that, and he's like, Alright, man, it was nice to meet you. I'm like, wake up. And I just feel more and more like the dreams are like not random chaos.

SPEAKER_06 1:37:37

They're not nothing.

SPEAKER_09 1:37:38

Neither is life. Dreams are in life. I felt the same dream spinning up like five times last night. Like I'm getting close out here, and I feel the dream spinning up, and then I'm like laying down in bed and the dream spinning up, and then I like toss over and set alarms and stuff like that, and then like the dream spinning up again, and then Demi wakes up, and then I'm like, bring her out here. I'm falling, and the same dream spinning up, and I remember being like, why is that happening?

SPEAKER_04 1:38:05

The same dream spinning up as in like you're falling into the same dream world.

SPEAKER_09 1:38:10

Yeah, the same smells and colors, into the same thing. Keep seeing the same table, like start to form, the same room with the same situation. So it's weird. So now we're getting dream talk, right? It's like uh like the situation that wants to pop off the scene of the dream is like someone's talking about something and that's making me feel something. They're talking about home cooking. I'm thinking my mom's home cooking, I can smell my mom's home cooking, and then I wake back up and I I forget it all. And then I slowly fall asleep and I see the table and I smell the cooking, and then the conversation's coming in, and then I'll like wake up and then forget it all, you know what I mean? By the third or fourth time, I'm like almost able to predictably fall into it. Yeah. And I wonder why it's not a different song every time I start to fall asleep in a different place, 10-15 minutes apart. How is it the same thing as spinning up? You know what I mean? Is that the dream for the night? Is that what's been written for me that night? What's up with that?

SPEAKER_04 1:39:02

Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. Why wouldn't another random dream just pop up or populate if it were like a mate or like a shuffle?

SPEAKER_08 1:39:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:10

Anytime you're going to sleep.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:12

I don't really remember what happened with that, but the Pat stuff was so vivid. Mm-hmm. So vivid.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:19

Packing on the pot, bro. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:39:25

Jesus! Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 1:39:28

It's doing it in everything, man. Bringing it to every every realm, man. I'm trying to bridge the gap, man. You gonna give Jersey a listen?

SPEAKER_09 1:39:37

Drop an ice, man. I listened to like all the old, all the old hitters over the last week. Okay. I think I put on like champagne poetry, and then it ran shuffle while I was cleaning the house. And it played Devil in a New Dress, Aston Martin Music, I mean, uh, Kanye West Good Life, like uh it ran all of the songs that compiled the comp the score to my experience of my life. And there's a lot of me rooted in those songs, you know what I mean? It's like almost like finding parts of myself I didn't forget existed, but like remember who you are. Simba.

SPEAKER_04 1:40:15

Yeah, you put a lot of value in stock into these ideals or these, whatever he's putting his label maker on right here. It's like sometimes there's things that are wise to also emphasize strongly with that sentiment.

SPEAKER_09 1:40:29

Yes. Also, like those songs were out, and then I digested those songs while I was going through things in my life. So yeah, big time time stamp. Exactly, yeah. Character stamp, right, bringing out all these past characters, and then those past characters had major victories and major losses. So then, like, also reevaluating all of those feelings about how I felt about everything. It's like really like bringing more of me to myself to use and feel, which was good. You know, I got back to listening to Christian music in the gym, and yeah, I'd rather do that. I don't want to drink coke every day, you know. But I'm sure that I'll listen to it, and if it's too aggressive or too gross, I'm not gonna like it, you know. But there's probably gonna be some stuff in like champagne poetry. There might be some stuff in there. Probably some stuff.

SPEAKER_08 1:41:17

Might be some stuff in there.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:18

It's probably like 12 spiritual laws. It's like it's gonna take off.

unknown 1:41:22

Maybe.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:24

All the all the stuff is saying that this is phenomenal Drizzy music about to happen. All the all the previews or the snippets and teasers or what? Like the people that have heard the album, the few selected, chosen, are like this is about to be yes, you're getting premium Drake.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:42

This movie's gonna be good. Premium Drizzle. This is gonna be the banger of the summer, dog. This is gonna be summer twenty-six.

SPEAKER_09 1:41:49

Yeah, so um, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:51

Um it's just tough to say, man. Yeah, that was another thing. Or like the having the it's crazy to have the abstract attachment to the to songs that are also thought of in your own analysis of your story as a time and era and make you feel certain things, and you're about to even analyze those certain things now with this different expression of the same thing, but it's a different thing. It's an older thing. It's the same thing, but just more time in that thing. And then analyze all of that. Damn for us before that.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:28

You're talking about through a Krishna lens now.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:31

Or just to have your own, you're like you're just have these abstract connections to these songs, and then the abstract in the sense of like it's you like them, or you're like they bring back certain memories or the certain characteristics that you embodied at that time, or the narrative, the emotion of the narrative that you were experiencing during the time of that song, whenever you first heard it, and we're incorporating it into your matrix. You tap back there, and then I guess you're tapping into some of your axioms potentially as well. You might be running be running into the idea of like, oh, I think I may be acting in this certain way because of this certain thing that I was thinking or like aligned truth to, and put that into my like how I should act matrix.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:08

Definitely, definitely. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 1:43:09

It was like, okay, maybe I was wrong in doing so, or maybe I was right in doing so.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:12

Sure, yes. Alter carbon, get to the next screen. That's a that one's in there. I was like, oh, damn, that came from you. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:22

Yeah, for sure. Axiomatic review. Yeah. And it's a storyline, emotional connection, attachment, narratives. There's things going on at that time, emotions attached to those things that were going on at that time. So yeah, music is crazy like that. Yes, dude. And Jersey finna drop it. Cute story. I don't know if we're running out of time. Maybe so. Okay, we can uh I'm pretty much just chilling today. Nice. Oh, you said you're trying to go leave it like three something to go to beat us somewhere about four.

SPEAKER_08 1:43:52

Ah, I got time. I got time.

SPEAKER_04 1:43:54

Yeah, no, we're chilling.

SPEAKER_09 1:43:55

Yeah, player. Dude, the other day I was doing this, and then I go to pick demi up from daycare. I'm like jamming the letting myself listen to these older songs, right? And then I'm like jamming, so then like I jam for 30 minutes, pick up demi. Also, rolling, driving five to ten over the speed limit with the windows down with the music on max. Place of freedom. Been doing that since I was 16 years old. It's like that's I don't do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:20

I don't do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:21

I notice not everybody does that. Yeah, so um that's that's not like uh that's definitely like a driving, a driving trope or habit or like a accessory enjoyment piece of driving. Yes, you know saying that it's like a common cultural thing. Yes. But I'm just like, I I don't I don't do that.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:36

That's cool. I go through phases where it's freedom.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:39

My boy's here for it.

SPEAKER_09 1:44:40

Yeah, that's I think it was literally like at 16 years old, that was freedom, if that makes sense. Yes, yes, it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like uh, I can go where I want now. And getting a car meant a lot to me because I was constantly going to my parents' house and doing all this shit, driving two hours every other weekend to go to my parents' house. It's like constantly stuck in a car doing what going to places that other people wanted me to go, going to church, doing this, going go to my mom's house, but I can't just hang out at my mom's house, we gotta go do this stuff. I get my own car and I go where I want to go. I was like, yo, this feels phenomenal. Actually, it made me realize that agency was something I hyper-craved because of the constraints of my childhood. So I sometimes uh for me to compromise my agency, I have to really believe in it. But that's more like a 25-year-old revelation. I'm kind of past that now at 30. But yes, it was freedom. Yes, I'm jamming with the windows down. Yes, I get to daycare. Pick Demi up, put her in the car. Now I've re-engaged in this behavior. Also, for like the last year, like the vibe wasn't there for it. It was like I didn't want to do that. I wanted to listen to podcasts, I want to listen to Joe Rogan, then I want to listen to Maps of Meaning. Then Joe Rogan faded. Massive Meaning can be a lot, kind of opened up this little channel. Yeah, a lot of Christian music for sure. But pick Demi up, get in the car. I roll down the windows and I start turning up the music, and then I'm like, oh, like, I don't really normally I have the music at a very like fair level, and we listen to like children's music, and then Demi sings in the back. And then I'm like, basically, like, Dems, you want to you you want to jam, Dims? You want to jam with me? And she's like, doesn't know what I'm saying, you know what I'm saying? And then we get out on the highway and I roll down the windows, and then I play flashing lights, and I turn it up like pretty loud, and then I'm just like in the front, like flashing, lights, lights.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:28

And then Debbie's looking at me, and she's like, starts, and then like okay, the beat drops hard, and I'm just like going off, and then she's in the back, just literally like moving her whole body in the car seat.

SPEAKER_09 1:46:43

Yeah, and then it was funny. So I'm laughing and she's laughing, and the wind's going crazy and blowing her hair everywhere, and she really wanted my glasses because I had like my glasses on, and gave her the glasses, and she's like trying to put them on and like rock her head, and then like flash forward to like last night, same thing. I'm like, ask her if she wants to jam, and then I like roll the windows down and then turn the music up, and she's like having more fun this time, like laughing and getting starting to try to sing the songs a little bit, like someone's just like deep in the a she'll go, hey. They add the bad libs, yeah. The background of the background vocals, definitely, and uh then like I roll the windows up, and then she's just like that, like pointing at the window, like roll it back down. And I was just like, That's so cool, you're so cool. And then I realized part of it is that's my I got it from my dad for sure. Like he would roll down the windows and jam the music, and we would drive fast with the wind blowing in and not talk, obviously, just experience the music, you know what I mean? Yeah, so it's cool to like teach her that, I guess. But also just cool that she was so into it, you know what I mean? Core child memory, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I'm not sure. She's a little young to remember stuff, but sickle, cyclical, sickle, sickle, cyclical time's a flat circle, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:52

Back to McConaughey, it's a fat flat circle, man. Keep coming.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:57

UT McConaughey. Yeah, so yeah, so listening to the old Drizzy, you think I think uh the expectations are always high. You always want it to be something with yourself.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:13

Feed families feeding families with his music, dog. Like, yeah, the idea that Chai is gonna go crazy, like play really well because he's got these new jams in his head that he's jamming, animated by new spirits.

unknown 1:48:31

I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 1:48:33

Demi likes the music, the music is good. That's like it's objectively good. Like I'll play H to the Izzo, and she vibes. She likes that song a lot. It's funny watching her vibe differently, then she's vibe. Well, there's some children's music she likes a lot too. Also will animate her, but then among the children's music, different songs animate her more, you know? So like some music is just good. I don't know what how you define objectively good in a subjective field, but the physical manifestation of the enjoyment is undeniable. Especially in a child. Right? It's how it comes on. I don't really buy us. Yeah, it's weird. All that to say here we go. I'm rolling up to the sandwich shop. Bar sandwich. Yes. Okay. I'm meeting my friend there. We just went on a hike. Sandwich bar. We're pulling up.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:29

I have the windows down and I'm jamming.

SPEAKER_09 1:49:34

Rick Ross is on. He says some maniacal stuff. Oh no. I'm in the parking lot, and there's a family walking inside. And he's like, says something maniacal. And I just roll the windows up. You know what I mean? Turn the music down. And I think to myself, like, if you had been jamming your Jesus playlist, no matter what, what it came out the windows. Right there, you wouldn't have just I don't know, whatever whatever it was that has social faux pas pissed those parents off, made those kids ask their mom a weird question, yeah, right, made people feel uncomfortable, however, you want to define that negative interaction that happened. Ain't no way that was happening that Jesus was bumping. That's facts, which made me feel like maybe keep this on a shelf.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:27

Hip hop hop. It gets to the question that we were talking about last time as far as just proper integration of the nature of the secular culture that we exist in day to day, that is culture itself. How much did we adopt culture? And it's like Pastor Ed's a big Spurs fan. Should you watch one of the Spurs games? Or like how much is that is like acceptable? You know what I'm saying? I think you can enjoy. There's a lot of things you're gonna enjoy. But then it's just a it's just a question and a and a measure and a bar and a barometer and like a gradient spectrum I'm trying to establish here because there is one of those going on.

SPEAKER_09 1:51:04

So what I'm we're pretty deep in the podcast. I don't think the critics are really listening anymore. Yeah, just the diehards. This is where the Joey Road can really start talking. It's the diehards in the mountains. I'd like to I'd like to super mega mega mega vitamin. The mega maya. And then the best way to do it, I remembered as I'm wrapping my mind around this idea, is to come with the like as far as I've gotten, now I have these questions before I can get further, and I don't know how to answer them on my own. So then I consume and then let myself get to the place, and then in the place, imagine or think or ask these questions, and then answers that are unbeknownst to me will come to me. And so that's one of the questions for sure. Trying to find like five, five good ones.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:51

What's the first one?

SPEAKER_09 1:51:52

Uh what's the what's the proper I don't even know how to ask the question first of all? The integration of the secular culture into your life? It's like, what's the question revolving that? What's the right question to ask? Like i robot style. And then maybe the question is what's the proper integration? Okay, then is it a bar ratio? Is it 75-20? It's like exp then I want to know why. Explain it to me. Explain how could 20% be true? Why do I need 20% secular culture? Is it because it's impossible to operate without it? Is it because you're unrelatable with none? Is it because evangelism requires relatability? We need community, we need social interaction, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:52:27

Well, you know what I'm saying? Is that just part of the game? Sure, yes.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:30

That's the it's a lot of questions within a question. That's one for sure. Not sure what the other four are exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:38

They'll come to you. Yeah, yeah. They're there.

SPEAKER_09 1:52:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:42

Just gotta identify them. We're just gonna silence everything. That's not that.

unknown 1:52:47

Everything that's not that.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:49

We're in there. We're in there behind all those thoughts. Yeah, somewhere. You're in there somewhere. Sometimes you can silence the thoughts, but the thoughts are also you, and you can generate thoughts, and it's a whole conduct convoluted thing. We don't know what's going on here. It's there.

unknown 1:53:05

It's there.

SPEAKER_04 1:53:06

But yeah, I guess you can get to the place where you can ask those questions, and I guess there's a certain feeling you get when you receive truth, or you ask a question, and someone answers your question legitimately and it helps you forward. Like, hey, where is this? Like, if someone asks you for directions and you give them legitimate directions, and they get to the place that they're trying to go, they're very grateful. But if the opposite of that happens, then they are not very grateful. And it could be malice behind it, it could be intense or misunderstanding of or misrepresenting of information of truth based on whatever level of cooperative manipulation is at as potential, possible. But we can't just assume that all the time. But either way, we want people to help us get what we're trying to go.

SPEAKER_09 1:53:52

If you got that stuff on you, when the truth washes, you feel it, you know it. Yeah, it's beautiful, it's wonderful. It gets you there, it's real.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:02

Sorry, we're talking about before this.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:03

We'll brought us to this just the road, the manga multis. Trying to find the secular cultural question because it derives back to how much Drake should you listen to, which is what we were talking about in a broader sense. Um, because the obvious answer is like none.

SPEAKER_04 1:54:19

Yeah, Paul and ever had Rick Ross say something monocle. How old was the family? What was the family unit? They were kids looking like how old are we talking? How many kids? Four and eight. Oh, two kids, four and eight, talking about sandy. A whole lot old.

SPEAKER_09 1:54:36

Yeah, something about drugs and a woman and a sexual act for sure. About as bad as it gets.

SPEAKER_07 1:54:41

You know?

SPEAKER_04 1:54:43

Okay, I can imagine some pretty bad ones. Looking for Mick Ross, but from hip hop in general. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's like, ah, yep, yep. That is definitely something that um has the potential to present itself. Not all the time. Not in the songs that we deem, like through even through listening through all that, like there's songs where we're like, oh come on, man. Parts of songs where we're like, come on. Oh, jeez.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:05

You can't be doing oh, oh jeez. That's pretty medical, Rick. What are you doing, man? Get in the Rick in there is crazy. Oh, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_04 1:55:21

I love the guy at church that just says, that's good. I love that guy. Songs that trigger that too much more disproportionately within us, we definitely didn't listen to. So there was like even then, it's still present as far as what is relatively good art or what is like something being clever, being artistic, or being just like gross, you know what I'm saying? There's a nuance and a depth to it. Poetry, just art in general.

SPEAKER_09 1:55:48

Something going on there. These are the effortless flows. Supposedly, something else is controlling me. Dude, just that bar look strength and guidance. That bar lights something up inside you. That bar. Flashing lights when the beat drops. Boom, boom, boom, boom. Something happens to you. Even my baby feels it. She starts throwing her body. She might be just imitating me for sure. But she's like laughing and starting. Yeah, for sure. Enjoying life. Just dancing.

SPEAKER_08 1:56:19

Just dance.

SPEAKER_09 1:56:21

But it could be just serving a false God, you know. Like I also feel that way with some Christian songs too. Serve a proper God. Because yeah, the other question is like, uh, let's say like optimization, right? It's like in business, should you lie sometimes? I've had people lie to me in business. Sometimes people will lie in business and then make more money because they lied.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:53

More money, Peterson. That's what we need.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:58

That was good.

SPEAKER_06 1:56:59

Save lives. I want a yacht. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:06

Yeah. Yeah. So for sure. You know what I mean? We're talking about that earlier, too. It's it's there, but sometimes it's obvious. I think it's hopefully you very hopefully you're able to break it down to a level where it does get complex and nuanced, and it has to get a little abstract to figure out what the proper maneuver is. But there's obvious because that means that you're avoiding the obvious. Obviously, this is the wrong type of lie to tell. To like, yeah, we should probably recall these cars because it's probably gonna cost some deaths. How many deaths are worthy of saving? How many lives are worthy of families are worthy of make taking this financial hit for? Sure. What's the cost-benefit analysis of this?

unknown 1:57:49

Come on, man.

SPEAKER_09 1:57:51

Come on, man. That's polarizingly obvious that. So I look like it's obvious, you know. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:57:55

That's like the the super simple. Like, probably shouldn't do that. You know, probably shouldn't do that one. Like, we should probably recall these cars and take the financial hit and like uh not have any of these families have to go through any of this crazy uh potential reality where someone hits them in such a way with such an accelerative rate where it hits and breaks the whatever. What was it? The gas tank and the engine. Oh, that's wrong. Yeah. There's a percent chance, and how much of a percent chance are we willing to take, Johnson? For more money. It's like, ah, 0.0001% chance we're gonna take a $10 million hit. We should have thought about this before we release the product. This is on us. What are we doing? Who's really checking these things? How did it give us how did this get past engineering and safety?

SPEAKER_09 1:58:47

Yeah, he's made a mistake. Just it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:58:53

That guy's he's done. But if that guy is your brother-in-law.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:00

No. And he's got ties, he's got ties. We're gonna start our own car company. We'll do a place in Dubai. In Dubai, Michael Scott Car Company.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:10

I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:11

It's uh lying's bad and good. Lying's bad, I'm good. Just do your best to not lie. Would be like Yeah, like as little as possible. Or like not on purpose. That would be the answer. Not on purpose.

SPEAKER_04 1:59:27

Yeah, say you don't know if you don't know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 1:59:30

Yeah. The the sum of any game that you're trying to play is dramatically less than God's bounty for you. No matter what you're trying to you're trying to make, what? $100,000 instead of $50,000, you try to make an extra $50,000. It's like the bounty of Christ is priceless. And it's priceless like some timers.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:50

So I imagine that's the answer that you would get if you ask that question on the to God himself. It's fine, because in God to God, it's like it's inconsequential.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:04

Like these dollars, inconsequential to me. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_05 2:00:07

They're consequential to me.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:10

It's like, but it's not, but it's not. You think it is?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:19

It's another holdout. It sounds like a great deal. Obviously. Like we should follow God selfishly.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:26

Yes. Why aren't we? Why aren't we running to him?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:31

We don't know a ton of rebellious nature to harden your heart. To succumb to temptation and feel ashamed.

SPEAKER_04 2:00:37

Yes. That's keeping you down. Security is keeping us back. But to there. Inevitably. Maybe importantly.

SPEAKER_09 2:00:46

How many millionaire testimonies have you heard about people who gave up everything to follow Christ and then became a millionaire?

SPEAKER_04 2:00:52

I have no idea off the top of my head. But I'm sure we can look it up and find a couple that would surprise us or that would connect to some big names. Maybe, I don't know. Like Steve Harvey, you know? That's the one that came to mind right now. I mean, oh no, never mind. That's like just a I'm not sure about the Christ part.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:07

Is he Christian on that like that?

SPEAKER_04 2:01:10

He has a testimony that's pretty crazy. He gave up everything to pursue his dream for sure. Yeah, for sure, for sure, for sure. Was that a faith-centric, motivated course of action?

SPEAKER_00 2:01:24

Or was he trying to do it selfishly?

SPEAKER_09 2:01:26

That's a good question. I don't know if that's what we do, but no. Or was that just God's plan for him?

SPEAKER_04 2:01:34

I don't know. I don't know. I see the thing. I don't know if he's I think he is like a spiritual person. I don't know. I can't remember. I can't recall any clips of that off the top of my head that I've seen. Maybe. Either way, though, I don't know about too many stories where people. I'm sure we look upside down.

SPEAKER_09 2:01:52

I'm just saying that that's part of the holdout, is people don't like have just like proof that they're going to get richer if they seek ye first the kingdom of God. You might not. Yeah, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:04

You might not. You don't want to be necessarily richer. That's there's more depths and nuance and layers here. That's not better. It's not better.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:12

Facts, bro. What do you want the money for? Security and happiness? That comes from the Lord, baby. That comes from Jesus Christ, the blood of Jesus. What do you want to be a qualified partner so you can have a wonderful spouse? It's like the spouse that Jesus could provide for you. Better than the spouse that the money could provide for you.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:30

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Whatever you're selfishly trying to pursue or whatever's going on.

SPEAKER_09 2:02:33

Yes, he is a devout Christian.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:37

What's up, Steve?

SPEAKER_09 2:02:38

Respect, Steve. Mr. Harvey. Believing his career success came from obedience to God. Mr. Harvey. Nice call. Holy Spirit pulled up. Pulled up. I didn't know any, but I knew that one on a subconscious level. Come on. Thank God. Praise God. Praise God. God is good.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:56

Out of time, I guess. I don't know. That's um. I can't promise you he'll make you a millionaire, but he can make your life better for sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:03

What do you want to be running? Why would you run from that? Why would you run from that? You don't believe me?

SPEAKER_04 2:03:11

Oh, it's just hard. This is hard to. We got the shame. We got all those things we mentioned even earlier. Just the the inclined nature to rebel, have a hardened heart, to succumb to temptation, and then make ourselves selves feel ashamed for it. That is the default nature of being a human being and being self-conscious.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:29

Taking responsibility is hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_06 2:03:32

That's bearing your cross is heavy.

SPEAKER_09 2:03:36

We're not perfect. But to say those things were my fault because I didn't do the right thing. And this judgmental character gave me negative consequences because I didn't do the right thing. It's like those are those are two big pills to swallow for people. It's like there is a God and you didn't do what he wanted you to do. It's like people don't want to give that up. The deal is great. It's worth it. It's worth it, dude. Do it selfishly. Yeah. Like be a businessman with your better life. Yeah. By definition? Yes, you do. Yeah. That's the part where it gets difficult for me too. I'm like, even a selfish person could see that this is like the most beneficial thing they could do, you know?

SPEAKER_04 2:04:20

Mm-hmm. It's written. It's hard because yeah, requires a self-sacrifice and a forgiveness to others and yourself.

SPEAKER_09 2:04:28

It's tough. It's a tough ask. We have really clear eyes right now at this point in our lives. But I know that like when you're 20 years old. Um your ego's gonna kick and scream and not want to die. Like when that's happening in me, I sense it. I'm like, okay, this is just my ego doesn't want to die. I'm like, it's okay, like you're dying anyways. It's like kick and scream all you want. There's no saving this ego, it's it's dying. I guess you can run into hedonism and delay the acceptance of its death. I suppose it's not helping anything, you know. But when you're a kid, it's harder to understand what you when your ego is kicking and screaming and doesn't want to die, it gets weird. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 2:05:18

There's something else going on.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:20

And the experience of the narrative that's you.

SPEAKER_09 2:05:24

It's like a midlife crisis, right? It's like you'll like wanna get the car you wanted when you were a kid, or you'll like it's regression. You'll want to get back into rapping. Be a rapper again, man. I got a lot of something. I've got a lot of validation tied into this previous thing that I used to be able to do when I was more youthful, so now I'm going to run back to that this weird regression that happens. Mm-hmm. Panic. Or afraid of the unknown in the future.

SPEAKER_04 2:05:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. More of a a little closer of an encounter. The inevitable death that comes for us all.

SPEAKER_09 2:06:04

So people didn't even know that that's what they're being afraid of when they're being afraid of it. They're just panicking. Uh-huh. We're like analyze the I'm going back to the. It's a part of it. Not all of it, but it's a part of it. For sure, yeah. Some of it is like you just don't want to. Maybe you want to redefine yourself and you want to redefine yourself in a way that you think is cool, but not as best for you.

SPEAKER_03 2:06:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_09 2:06:26

But the I can tell we have clearer eyes, like we're more people don't be seeing it like that when they're going through it. Sometimes you're going through it, and it's a lot. It's just a lot. Mm-hmm. It's a whole bunch. A lot of response to stimuli, not a lot of proactive action.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:50

So much stuff's going on.

SPEAKER_06 2:06:53

But don't you want a better life? Someone, someone's what I'm trying to pitch. It should be an easy pitch. I want a better life.

SPEAKER_04 2:06:59

All I could promise you is like, I will leave you to a better life. God is the thing that gets you to a better life. Jesus is the only thing that gets you to a better life. I guess because people are able to say, well, no, my my life is like measurably better in many aspects and measurements. And I'm not like a self-expressed, devout follower of Jesus Christ. But I think even those fruits that you are reaping are coming from somewhere, whether you believe in it or not, like there's a thing that's happening there. You just don't know the name of it. Like you like we put on my the thing that makes life better, like just by definition. Definitional, archetypical, foundation. There is a better and a worse life. More enjoyment, less enjoyment, more suffering, less suffering. We feel those things. How do you know it's coming from God? Have you been following them? I guess is the first answer that comes on my mind. Not necessarily that if it's what you wanted. Because yeah, right, then it comes in like, what's is this from the devil or is this from what is the source of this? Cause I guess you could measure it with the more enjoyment and less suffering. I guess it's ultimately like the basis of it, even with Job. He went through a good life with relatively low suffering, relatively high enjoyment, completely maxed out on faith and worship and praise. And then he flipped his matrix to where he was a whole bunch of suffering, no enjoyment, but he still had his maxed out faith and praise. And then ultimately he was like restored. So there's like a but then that gets into like the conversation of like prosperity gospel, kind of. It's like I will bless me if I follow him. It's like, well, yes, but that's not why you should follow him. That gets convoluted.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:48

Because bad things happen.

SPEAKER_08 2:08:49

But good things happen too.

SPEAKER_07 2:08:55

I'm touching on something.

SPEAKER_09 2:08:57

More random bad happens than random good. But yeah, definition-wise, for you, you're like, God is the generator of the good things. But then I'm like, that's is someone who doesn't have a relationship with God, would they have that same baseline? How do you how do you get them to that place where that's the baseline definition? What's the thinking there, the logic behind that?

SPEAKER_04 2:09:18

I think it kind of ties into the idea of like why would people say God is good? Like the the good itself, like what you classify as good, is like that. I think God's overarching in the entirety of it, including the bad. The bad happens when he's not the author of the bad. I think that's where he also gets kind of a little tricky.

SPEAKER_09 2:09:39

Because he's a powerful.

SPEAKER_04 2:09:41

He could turn the bad for good. Yes. Yes. And you can help him, or you could do that. He could do that with you, through you, for you. But it takes you as well to do it and to want to do that and have the softened heart to feel that and to pursue that legitimately. It's harder to do. Hard to do. It's in our nature to do the opposite. But I guess we're trying to talk about how to get someone to we're talking about trying how to get someone to assign that same or put that same categorization of a word onto the idea of what it's it's talking about. Yeah. That's the thing for a better life. I think that generates a better life. God is good. And things the the events that happen in your life are good or bad. Or not good or bad, but more pleasurable, less pleasurable. But then yeah, then you gotta figure out how to align your what makes life more pleasurable for you. Like you gotta be more positively mentally associated with the outcome of whatever happens from like trying to legitimately get closer to God and trying to establish a truly authentic and legitimate connection with the source of your consciousness and whatever's going on here. And if you do that in a way that is successful or like is true, then your life will be like the best, most meaningful story it could be. I guess God is also kind of like the the idea of right and wrong, or like always making the right sacrifice, always making the right move, always saying the right thing. And like if you do it legit legitimately, I think it's like kind of like the well God kind of kind of can be verbally stated as, but that's not the only thing, you know. We put a lot of stickers on top of this thing, or a lot of um whatchall, label makers, labels. But like yeah, I guess yeah, Yeshua or Jehovah Jirah, Jehovah Rapha, like those kind of things. Like there's multiple names. Yeah, Yeshua, Jesus. There's different different words we put onto it, but we're the those words are trying to point at something. And like the thing I'm I think the thing that I think that those words are pointing to in my best act attempt at trying to articulate the truth behind what I really think that is is like, yeah, the thing that is. Just like definitionally what would make your life a better thing. And ha there is a way to have a better and worse and like a right and wrong typically is associated with that.

SPEAKER_09 2:12:09

But it's a lot. It's a lot. Yeah. I would I'd be willing to also bet that anybody who has trouble making that association or following that line of logic or wants to look for a line of logic, probably hasn't actually committed their heart to like trying to actively practice the Christian faith. Like the tenants of the Bible to actually try to follow them, actually live that out for any amount of time. I think that you would say that, like, okay, this is like making sense. Like uh the kind of relationships that you would cultivate or repair relationships based on like forgiveness, for instance, is like in the Bible, right? It's like apply forgiveness to your relationships, and then like what the joy that can come from the transformation that would occur if you did follow up and live those principles out would make you feel the feeling that we then use words to try to describe and we say, like, God is good. But um you'd have to be willing to like try. That's like part of it. And I think that that's like the holdout is like, why would I try? It's like you have to like taste, see that the fruit is good. Like you have to have to like be transformed on some level. And then it's hard to be transformed when your heart is hardened. But if you have a softer heart, it's e you're more transformable, I think. For sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:39

Like transformation is like a lot of the stories in the Bible.

SPEAKER_09 2:13:44

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. People calling through it. Yes, like there's another thing too is just like your subjective reality will only provide the more in line subjective reality is in line with objective reality, the better your life will be, or at least the more HD it will be, clear, clarity. And then if you can make the right decisions in your because your subjective is lined up with the objective, and then you make the proper sacrifices through your subjective, and then your subjective is aligned with the objective, then you make truly proper sacrifices, things will definitely get better. That's a difficult, that's not fucking that's not papitas. You know what I mean? Like you're gonna have to like do that, you're gonna have to like think and act, and then doing those things, you would get like logical evidence that you might need to believe that God is good. But that's a lot to ask too. It's like, how can you how can you knock it if you haven't tried it? That's another thing I feel like a lot. It's like have you ever like wanted to lose weight? Then you had to like find a diet, then you had to actually like do the diet, and then you had to like let time pass, and then you can find out if the diet works or not. Read the fruits, yes. Like, have you ever done that process? It's like, okay, do that process with Jesus and tell me what happens. It's like kind of where I get with people who like are real big holdouts. I'm like, can you even can you it's a workout program? Yeah, uh do you have a witness? Like, you don't, because you never tried. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It's like, oh, I did the diet. It's like, did you? Did you really do the diet? Did you really eat the time frames and the proper food with the right calories? Because it's like if you didn't, then I don't really think you didn't, because I know what happens when you do. So that's another place where I get sometimes like when I'm antagonized by the people who are resistant to Jesus. I'm like, try to evangelize. Evangelism's hard, man.

SPEAKER_04 2:15:33

Yeah, it's frustrating, it's kind of sketchy, or yeah, for that reason. It can be people getting frustrated, or people be people being combative, or demons coming out. I don't know what people are entertaining in their thought capacity and their mental abstract realm that we all have access to with memory and imagination. Who knows what's going on in there? What they're actively doing in that place. I don't. I hope I know, or I hope it's you know trying to make things better.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:04

On some level, we're all just painting a picture that is our life. That's like, should you manipulate someone to go to church?

SPEAKER_04 2:16:12

Well, like, we have free will. You can't force it. There's an element that like you can definitely encourage, but there's an element of truth, and you can't force it. You can't.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:23

You can't manipulate. You tell the girl that the guy likes to go to church. It's like you can like you can set the odds in your favor, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 2:16:30

That that I okay, to what you're saying, I don't think that you can ever uh but even if I execute that properly and I do get him to go to church as I can't make him give his life to Jesus, make him soften his heart enough to receive the Holy Spirit to get him off fire. I can't do it. There's a there's an element of him that voluntarily voluntarily needs to contribute. Yes, that's participate.

SPEAKER_09 2:16:52

That's why we offer that moment at the end of every church service. Because they're gonna have to do that thing. And your testimony is your most powerful, most precious, most important thing you own. Because I think your testimony is is powerful. It's like saying, like, this is my story. Like, I'm telling you, like I went through these things, I felt what you're feeling. I can empathize with you, but not exactly you, but maybe you can empathize with me when I tell you what I went through. And I'm telling you, like Jesus is the only way, man. It's powerful. But I think there's a truth in the the thing that I picked up over the last two weeks that's just like all you're ever doing is adding another straw to the camel's back, and like Jesus is using you, or like God's using you. Like, give this man a straw, put a straw on like I'm God Himself, I am working on this guy's heart, and like now I'm going to use you as a tool for me to help me, but you can never do it alone. That's like where I'm starting to get with people. It's like no matter like every time I go out anywhere lately, talk, talk, talk, get down to axioms, introduce the Jesus axiom, usually turns away from it. And I'm like, that's all, that's all evangelism ever is for me lately, you know? But then it like hit me like, oh, it's because the system, there's a bigger system at play. Like you're there's never gonna be someone that goes like, you know what? I think you're right. I think I should, I should follow Jesus. Like it's like my words can't transform you.

SPEAKER_04 2:18:14

It can happen. I guess it could happen to a degree, maybe, you know. I think I've heard Pastor Ed, or I'm sure pastors have the ability to potentially do that with that role they carry. But I guess we can do it as well, you know, saying I'm not saying that we can't, but or people can't do it just in the spirit of doing it or in the reality of doing it, and having someone, I guess just like, yeah, at least it's like say the prayer that we say at the end of church. Sure. But then there's a true aspect behind it, even the words can't save you, Michael. I can I can at least give you the the first like get you started on the game, like let you know there's a game going on here. And you can like log into it, legitimately, like log some hours and do some damage.

SPEAKER_09 2:18:52

But it's a whole thing. You get to the spectrum. It's like a gradient. It's like a little bit is asked, and you feel a little bit of how amazing it is. And a little more is asked, you feel a little more about how amazing it is. You climb the spectrum until you're given everything you got and everything you everything you experience is phenomenal. It's like not phenomenal as an enjoyable, but it's a literally like phenomena, yeah. An abstract story that's very good, a very gripping and engaging story. Yeah, like I can't believe some of the stuff that happens that I see that people say, Well, what I watch them walk through, you know. So the gradient's real. So you gotta get on the gradient, and it starts off like kind of dull. It's just like going to church, trying to do your best, and spend like 20 years doing that and see what happens, you know. Thinking in decades, bro, it's different. It's different, it changes things. I got so many left. Like three decades left to go on bananas, and then it slows down a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:48

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kind of retirement.

SPEAKER_09 2:19:52

But then I had this star that hit me. It's like, we're all painting a picture of your life. Like how beautiful that picture is like. Maybe you want to manipulate someone, go to church. I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't want to use that color on this paintbrush. Because I don't think what would hit the the easel would look very good. Wouldn't it's not beautiful. And so, like, ultimately, like how beautiful the painting of your life is, is ultimately up to like the artist, like how you how you paint, what you're inspired by, what you think is right. And then like you can paint whatever picture you want. Sometimes we're limited in our capacity to make a beautiful painting. But uh the actions that I choose embodied by the spirit, like all like trying to get someone to go to church? Yes, I believe in that. Spirit of honesty to try to get them to go there, yes. Love, empathy, because I want a better life for them. Yes. I want those things, and I think those things ultimately, then it's like, how much do you try? When do you get frustrated? When do you decide that how much grace do you have for someone else's spiritual ignorance? You know what I mean? Like all these things are gonna make a more beautiful or less beautiful painting. Now I'm trying to make the most beautiful that I can, truthfully. Like I'm trying, I'm trying. Then how much are you trying? It's also gonna result in how beautiful it is, you know.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:09

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I think I think we're doing that whether we know it or not. You know what I'm saying? Yes, yes, yes. That is happening. Yeah, that's happening.

SPEAKER_08 2:21:18

Or whether we contribute to it or not, it's like you gotta be you gotta be conscious at the gate of your mind, bro. You'll paint some paint some messed up.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:25

Like in a painting. Some messed up stuff.

SPEAKER_09 2:21:29

This is a uh stuff stuff.

unknown 2:21:30

Hey, hey.

SPEAKER_09 2:21:32

What's the guy who just threw the paint at the fucking no idea? Famous guy, you know what I get? Picasso? No, there's like uh his art just looks like child splatter. Yes. And people are like, this is art. I'm like, really?

SPEAKER_04 2:21:51

Yeah. It's abstract. No, no, in the eye of a beholder. Of course, of course. What's the holder? Life's a lot, man. Oh god, you just want to sign off with the beautiful people.

SPEAKER_09 2:22:06

Yeah, I think we touched a lot of bases today.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:09

Yeah, we touched some bases.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:11

A lot of stuff going on.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:12

It's just never-ending the culture, the metaphysics under the hood. We're under the hood. Sherry's with some under the hood friends, you know what I'm saying? We're gonna start a revolution.

SPEAKER_09 2:22:27

We're trying to evangelize what's talking about Christianity versus secular ideals, balance. We really got into evangelism for like a while there.

SPEAKER_06 2:22:44

Oh, yeah, it's good. It's good, it's good.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:48

It's conversations we need to try to figure out what God really is. It's a better life. And yes, you want a better life, but what's the holdout? What's the holdout?

SPEAKER_08 2:22:58

Trying to answer that question.

SPEAKER_09 2:23:00

Negative associations to what God and religion is. God not feeling like the obvious answer that it's a better life. Like if you took that certainty and gave it to some people that I know, they would just be like, No, it's not. Or like, what makes you so sure? You know what I mean? Like, mm-hmm. I have tenets and principles that I think make a better life, but they're not necessarily aligned with what you believe God to be, because I've seen people who follow God give me a worse life.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:25

Then I follow the God I'll follow it. Facts. Oh.

SPEAKER_09 2:23:30

Facts. Also, I'm like, that's where I'm like, Jesus didn't like religion either.

SPEAKER_03 2:23:34

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_09 2:23:34

Mm-hmm. Because they were using religion in a way that wasn't aligned with the God that you're following.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:41

Yeah, Jesus knew and respected and maintained and completed the Hebrew Old Testament or the Hebrew Bible, which is the Old Testament. He like knew that, was like, in that game. Like he's not, but then also he doesn't wasn't down with the egoic manipulation that has interceded into that area of whatever that really is. So he's able to maintain the truth and validity of that, but then also not go outside of it, but like active or well, he was doing everything, but we he was able to inspire us to write about it in a way that was still or like a true thing. So it was like this is this is the only book of truth. This is our book of truth. But then he was able to live in a way and express ideas in a way that was just as valid validated, validatably true and also connected with like the hyperlink nature of the things. So he was like outside of the outside of the realm. And I think we're kind of called to do that as well. Not that we have to live outside of the Bible, that should be like our base foundation, but then we're also called to go against religion in the way that Jesus went about going against religion, not necessarily like the the baby with the bathwater of spirituality and the relationship with the divine, but the way that some people dress it up and abuse it. Like, legitimately, you know, you know. That's taking God's name and band for real, for real. So it's like we should um there's a way to do it. And that's a new testament. It's like, dope. It's dope. I think we could do, I think we're called to do that as well.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:19

I agree. Let's flesh it out some more next week.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:21

Flushing. I thought that yeah, that thought came to me towards the end of what we're talking about. Yeah. Life's a lot. It's that deep. It's deep, it's that deep and deeper. We spirit scratch the service, and thank God he allows us to get some of those thoughts out. Love this space for that reason. Hopefully, y'all love this space for that reason. Yes. We're all coming here together. When we come to podcasts, like we're all coming to the podcast, us included. Like conceptualized that what it is. Like we're here doing the podcast. And the podcast is his thought exploration.

SPEAKER_09 2:25:52

Wendy has a day, and then he gets to the game. Just like we did.

SPEAKER_03 2:25:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:57

Yeah, we're thinking. We're trying to go under the hood. We'll flesh things out later. But all I know is that God's a way to better life. Jesus' way to better life. I don't know what that looks like for you exactly, but I think you might have a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 2:26:13

Who knows what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_04 2:26:15

Do it legitimately though. It's like a diet like you're talking about. Like the diet. Oh man, I had one thought flashed for a second. That was a reminder of the thing that I was thinking about earlier. Oh no, it was just a one connecting tying kind of knot that you were talking about earlier with the guy you were having the conversation with and getting him like back into a corner, even just like as far as and this ties him back into the God is a better, like literally a better life. It's like you can look back on your own life, is what you were telling. Like you could like it, it's real. This isn't just like abstract, it is under the hood metaphysical abstract things, but it's like let's we can talk, we can bring it up right here. We could like both look at it and address it and like get there with like the conscious analyzation of your prior life and things that you the sacrifices you have made, things you have done, things you have said, and things you have not done and not said that you could look back on and say that man, if I I wish I did this thing in a different way, and that different way is the better way, you know. I'm saying it's kind of kind of where you you were getting him. Yeah. And I was like, okay, God is the thing that will give you the ability to make the thoughts and to and to act on those thoughts that will lead to the better way. Because like the same fork is presented all the time, but there's always like the trying to align yourself with God is gives you a better barometer of what might truly be the better way. And either way, he can make it the better way. He's like, he's not he's not above your mistakes, or he's not he's not beneath he's his ability, is above your ability to mess up the plan. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_09 2:27:41

Yes, it's like what you would define better as is defined for you in the Bible. It's like if you were to make the right choice through your own intellect, because somebody would be like, God's not telling me what the right or the wrong is. It's like I'm defining well, someone is. I think they would take credit for that, or like my experience, my learning model, like I went through a bad time because I did that thing, so I wish I would have done it differently. But then it's like if you could boil down the axiom of like the wrong choice was because you you did what? And then the right choice would have been based on doing what. And if you were to like take those and then go into the Bible, the Bible would have told you to do what the right thing was. It wouldn't have said act in greed or act selfishly or be afraid and then make a choice out of fear. Like it tells you the tenets and the axioms that would have led you towards that right choice. But I think that for most people, when they look back over their life, on some level it is their intellect kind of defining whether or not things were good or bad. And like their feeling process, how it felt, you know. Things like that.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:41

Yeah. Well, I guess on a big scale, but also used to even like on a smaller scale, just the idea of you can't make the proper sacrifice all the time, even with like saying the right thing or the wrong thing, or like having it like shooting shots and missing jokes, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's just like well, that was the wrong thing to say. But like I learned, or like you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 2:28:58

I had to figure it out somehow. Yeah, absolutely. You know, we need the structure.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:06

But um, making it tangible, bringing it to God is the thing that leads to the connecting with that thing, will it lead you to more opportunity to do the better thing more often than not, and see where that takes you. See to take the take the diet, man, take the Jesus 90-day program. Get your jacket, your spiritually yoke, son.

SPEAKER_09 2:29:24

J90X, baby.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:29:27

That'll feel good. For real. Encourage you all to do that. Encourage you to encourage others to do that as well. We're trying to build this ministry, build this evangelistic pursuit that we're on that we've been on since the beginning of 38, but now it's taking many different forms and shapes, but it's still the same thing. We're doing it now. I continue or I encourage y'all to do the same, and we'll continue to do the same forever.

SPEAKER_08 2:29:47

Oh yeah. We'll see how next time.