Is Consciousness Deeper Than We Think? | DMT, Jesus & The Limits of Reality | The MJ38 Show #138

What if the mind is only the doorway, not the whole room?

The conversation starts with prayer and the idea that thinking and prayer may be more connected than we realize. From there, we move into the strange world of DMT, Joe Rogan-style psychedelic conversations, machine elves, hidden realms, intention, and whether opening the “developer tab” of reality is something humans are even supposed to do.

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In this episode of The MJ38 Show we explore:

- Consciousness
- Prayer
- Subconscious intention
- DMT Experiences
- Psychedelic Realms
- Manifestation
- Flow states
- Brain waves
- Doctor Strange
- Yoga
- Spiritual discipline
- Christ
& the question of whether reality is deeper than we normally perceive.

But this is not just a psychedelic rabbit hole.

The deeper question is spiritual:

What are you tapping into?

Is consciousness something we control, something we receive, or something we are invited to surrender?

Welcome to The MJ38 Show — deep modern conversations about faith, culture, psychology, masculinity, spirituality, philosophy, self-improvement, theology, meaning, creativity, and modern life.


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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

138. Talking about amps.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

138, that's one.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Let's go. Shout out 138 and 38 pushing through. Yes. Um welcome in. Life is good. As always. Getting the waters nice and warm, setting the temperatures out. Social hot tub they're about to be jumping into right now.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

You are now cruising at 38 degrees.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

38 degree altitude. On the latitude and longitude. And we're moving. But yes, I think. Do you want to pray to say?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Absolutely. And thank you for all the work you do for the podcast. 130 episodes. No joke. I was watching highlights, montage, convilations last night of us. I was like, I fucking love this thing. It's awesome. So I feel like let's keep it moving. 138. That being said, if you want to join me in prayer before the podcast, yes. Dear Father God, thank you for this opportunity to do this thing that I love to do podcasting and to hang out with this person that I love, Justin. And for the audience members and the platform that you've given us, uh please put it in our hearts to honor that. Please help our subconscious to honor that. Please help our instincts to honor that by putting the lens of Jesus Christ first when we look through into the world and look through into these conversations. Please keep any kind of distractions or anything that would deter us off of the line of thinking that is truly us and truly how you would have us to be. I don't know if the words we say specifically matter in your grand scheme, but I ask that you just keep us in the right energy, keep us in the right mind frame to be talking about things in a way that you could be appreciative of. And Jesus Christ's name I pray these things. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

All the glory, amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Just want to keep praying. I've prayed with you guys for like 10 minutes, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Prayer and thinking are indistinguishable. Yeah, it's not a good idea. Michael, there's nothing but prayer. Yeah. There's like an added moment to it for sure, but there's something. We're you're in here. Yeah. Everything you're thinking.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It's like if my subconscious already can identify what I want this to be ideally, and then like just running that through the frame of asking Jesus for help with that also realigns what I want to happen here ideally. Because like you're thinking about like, you know, acting in front of your parents, you act differently than if you're just like alone. So then I'm like, and then just like articulating that isn't that difficult most of the time, you know. So like that's prayer too. Like, please help us with what am I doing again? Oh, yeah, here's what I'm doing again. God help me with that, you know.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, yeah. It's a posture of gratitude and um not like begging, but uh beholding or like submitting to, or like there's something higher than you, it's like a higher authority. Yeah, I try to do that with my first help, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

It's like help me, please, but I'm asking for these things. I can't do this on my own. I know I can't do this on I submit to you.

SPEAKER_02 3:10

I'm insufficient. Yeah, yeah. Instead of thinking, I'm enough the way I am. No, I know more than enough. I can trust my my conceptualization of what's going on here. I believe myself fully. How am I foolish?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah, you you have just enough grip on reality to think that you can make plans that's not yeah, we're barely anything can happen.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

We contribute, but yes, that's that's facts. We have we have a a lot of amount of responsibility to adopt an infinite amount.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Yeah. Is there anybody to turn me up just a little bit? I'm sorry to be breaking the fifth wall right here. I'm just like a little quieter than I like to be normally. Okay, that feels better. I can hear myself. What's up, ladies and gentlemen? How are y'all doing today? Justin, how are you doing today? Welcome to the show. What's up? That's feeling good. Post purse apocalypse down here in San Antonio. One thing that I noticed, I don't know if we talked about it, but other people have been asking me in my life, hey, what's it like in San Antonio? It sucks, right? Heartbreak City. You guys lost five blue five-game lead. And uh leads in five games, whatever. You feel me? Um you got me. Leads of four games. I tell them this, it was real quiet. It was very quiet in the whole city the morning after we lost. It's just quiet, sad, morose, bleak, dark, no media circus, no more drones, no parade, no fucking no, there wasn't even a lot of it. I wasn't one.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

I thought the parade was happening for real. I was on it. Spartans 7.

unknown 4:45

Spartan 7.

SPEAKER_00 4:46

Then you open up the gram and New York City's falling apart, going up. It's a one out of 10 scale. They're on a solid 13. Things are getting weird and spooky. And I was just like, man, it's the stark difference between no one, nothing is happening. It's not even barricades in the downtown sections of our city. It's like nothing's, they're all gone. They're all in New York, all the NBA people.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

I saw all the cops leave downtown after we lost, or like, not all of them, but a squad of people. You know, like they were manned up ready to enforce some order on some mayhem, yeah, celebratory mayhem.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Tough. See, that was my biggest like fucking quiet. It's devastating. Devastating.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Spurs are different here in San Antonio than a lot of other franchises. They have only the Spurs, no like pro football teams out of San Antonio. It's like Houston or Dallas, Houston or Dallas. Yeah. But in the NBA, the Spurs are something, you know. Big great Popovich. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:44

That's respect. That's respect. That's respect. So yeah, we talked about it a lot a little bit last podcast, but just wanted to brush on that because everybody was asking me. Father's Day just happened. Shout out to all the fathers out there.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

Father's Day, masculine energy. We need it. Yes, we have a good father.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

And that's facts, though.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

That's facts. Shut up. Our father. Generation of consciousness. Your thoughts on consciousness you were talking about, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Man, that's a whole fun. Let me warm up for a second. Yeah. Get my brain. Let's skip into it. Let's get a run of start. I was gonna say I had a question for you, which was jury duty. Yes. I was gonna ask you over the phone, but I figured I'd just save it for the potty. So how'd that go down? Walk in there like a like a flagrant racist.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

Can't pick me. Racist as hell. We didn't even get to that. I guess because there's uh there was a large gathering of people. It was a lot of people. It was like probably close to like 500 people. And then they were bringing us in groups of like a hundred or fifty or thirty at a time. And then by the time it got to like the I didn't go until I got there at eight. We didn't start that process of starting names until like nine thirty. And then I was probably like the fourth or fifth group to get called.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Damn. And so what time do you think you got seen?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Um my name was called and I was like back or into like the going into phase two or whatever, like the next step would be at probably like 11:30. Oh my goodness. And then two hours after that.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

Three hours deep in this process.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Yeah. And then she's like more or less, okay. So y'all 100, like we already got, I guess, the amount of people that we needed, or whatever. So like we don't no, we no longer see you or need you to be here today. It's like, okay. So like we're we're free to go.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Nice. So I was like, nice. And that was it? Nice. Yeah. Nice. I already found out the people. That was it. Sweet. I was like, nice. All right, cool. Pretty awesome out. Light it up. I didn't even have to like does. I saw a funny skip play out of my head where you're like, you're if you figure out the way that you're gonna get out of this jury duty, is just like you're a ridiculous enough person that they never want you, anyways. So you're like, yeah, I make hip-hop music, I do a podcast, uh, work in a restaurant, um, you know, I'm married and I'm a stepdad, I do this. You just like describe your life, you're like really proud of who you are, and you're like, they'll never want me. It's just like this is our guy. This is our guy right here on the jury panel. That's one of our 12 angry men, dog. You belong there. Ain't no one won't be here. Well, often welcome for Justin as far as jury duty goes. Yeah, I was trying to get in and get out. I love it. It was nice. I was like, yes. Well done. Yes. Did you think about that beforehand? Did you did you think about what set the stage for that to happen in your mind and your mental conscious, or did you kind of go and just like more whatever happens, happens. Did you have any intention on the outcome?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

I definitely was hoping that it would be something chill like this, like this up like this type of situation. Yeah. But I was willing and ready for it to be something like, all right, I gotta even like I was assuming I may get might get selected more off more than not, I think. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Right. It's a good one.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

And even then, it's fine. I think that's gonna suck. It's gonna suck. If you're on this thing for I don't know, I don't know what a typical jury duty term is if you're in there. A juror. How often do they go? Or how long do they go for in some of the cases, criminal cases or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 9:19

Some of them will go for weeks. If you get on, like you know, some people were some people were selected for the jury duty for the gloved off it, you must have quit. Oh, gee. Yeah, how long did that child go off for? That was a l- that was probably like one of the longest, I'm sure. Yeah, so you get on the wrong case or the right case, you're like, might be a couple months. Be like, yo, y'all gotta pay me, bro. Come on, government. What we talking about? Taking a two-month vacation doing my civil duty. Where's my civil salary?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

I think you get up to $58 per day. If you're in there, you get 20 bucks for the first day, and then 58 for every subsequent day after that.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

But okay, okay. Well, they're trying. Sounds about like the government. But uh, okay, so yeah, with consciousness is starting duty.

SPEAKER_02 10:12

Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 10:12

No, just just propelling us forward. Happy that that outcome happened for you. So, like, consciousness is like what one of those buzzwords that I think we all have like a similar definition for, but there's not exactly a concrete definition. But um for me, for what like the an obvious definition is just the fact that we're like on or awake, or there's some kind of driving life force inside of you. Like it like you use your eyes to perceive things. That's like your consciousness is like the thing perceiving things, and then there's like a subconscious, right? It's like attached to consciousness as a word, and that subconscious is like part of your awareness that isn't privy to your conscious awareness, and your consciousness is like both of those things, or all of those things, or your experience of it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Something both those things interplaying, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Right, something like that, right? This the all-encompassing aspect of your capacity to perceive and experience and be aware of any of and all of this that's going on. And so, but then on Joe Rogan, in the last like two weeks, there's been two podcasts that were like psychedelic in nature. Did you listen to the Chase Hughes ones by chance? Nutty, bro, crazy. Uh, just hops right into this podcast talking about like DMT right off the rip. And you know, I've heard a bunch of podcast stories about DMT and stuff like that. Like, I know what it is colloquially. Like, one thing I'd never heard before is apparently, and I was gonna do some research on this, but I didn't uh got busy watching our clips, but apparently there's like an entity in the DMT realm that like if you go there too many times, they'll like lock you out, and like you'll like approach this DMT realm, and this entity will be like no more, you're locked out, and you'll be like locked out maybe forever or a certain period of time, and you can't go into like the alien spaceship anymore. And then like Chase Hughes is talking about this, and then Joe Rogan's like, yeah, yeah, no, I've heard about this. I know what you're talking about is like the the guy that says no, right? And then I'm like the ultimate Aegis Smith. Yeah, I'm like, both of y'all know about this, and then they're talking about why that happens to people, maybe. Like it maybe they start using DMT too much in like the wrong frame of reference or for the wrong reason, or like the honorable spirit of what the psychedelic is trying to do for you is like this is not good anymore. You're on probation or something like that. That's crazy. We're talking about crazy stuff here. I'm talking about woo-wooville. Yeah. Population, this podcast. Gone. So got me thinking about consciousness and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Out of sorry, DMT is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Crazy stuff, right? So let's just say you smoke like or lick this toad or whatever it is, whatever lick this toad it comes across to translate into. Yeah, right. I think it's a I think it's a thing you smoke and it's a thing you can vape.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

And then you uh but there is like a frog that makes DMT on its back too, and you can watch you could like extract it from the frog. Right from the source. Yeah, effects. There's also like implants that you could like ayahuasca, yeah, yeah. And then they're like similar in bondness creation. There's like a chemical component similarity uh between these things, but not that it's the same chemicals, it's different chemicals. But regardless, then this this is like a 15-minute experience where you would like smoke this thing and be like, and then you would be like transported out of your body, and then people see like these common things when they're there, and then also when they're there, they feel like one, they died, and then two, they have transcended whatever life and death is, and then three, they're at like a source, like a place where they like uh feel like this place knows everything, and then you kind of know everything because you're around this thing that knows everything, and it all like makes sense to you, and it feels familiar and you understand it, and then there's like these machine elves there, apparently, okay, and these like demon jokers there apparently who aren't necessarily not on your side or on your side, but it does feel like they're trying to tell you something important, but they also might be like, ah, this guy doesn't get it, like you can't come back here anymore, it's fucking annoying. We don't know exactly what that is, but then this is a common experience for all these people that do it, and it's transcendent and crazy and mind-blowing, and they feel like they're better humans for it when they do it. Weird, right? Okay, so that's setting the stage for like this DMT rolling around in my brain. I had a friend in college named Steven Zabrenick, and the only reason I remember his last name is because Luke just brought him up the other day, and he remembered his last name, and that kind of blew my mind. He's a super cool dude. Let us, we hung out with him a lot, stayed in his room for a little bit, and then he took us out to his beach house at or lake house at LBJ, taught me how to wakeboard, and we painted our rims while we're out there, watched the Manny Pacquiao fight. Awesome core memory, cool days. He took me and Luke both of us that weekend, we just chilled. He said that his dad had this trick where before he would go to bed, he would like run through his plan for the day, like I'm doing this and I'm going to the grocery store, I'm going there, and uh, and then he would like visualize it like it was like, you know, a movie, and then try to, you know, see everything that was gonna happen and play it all out, plan it all out. And then Steven was telling me that his dad, when they're drinking sometimes, will swear that there are days where it's like literally exactly like he had seen it the night before, because he's done it, I don't know, for like 10, 20 years. It's like some days are like identical to this plan, and he's like, his dad's like, I don't know how that like I'm telling like bar for bar. It's like I I saw this whole day last night. I'll do this, I'm trying to do the same thing tonight, it'll probably happen again. And like, so then my new thoughts on consciousness, I just realized in this moment, are really similar to that because I think that there's something to our ability to like pray in faith or be sure or have certainty that things will relatively go this way, and then on some level, we can like kind of have a more finalized, rough draft. Like sometimes like we think a day's gonna go that way, and then we go into it, and then it's kind of like that, but it's kind of not. But then maybe if we put more intention and more consciousness into making that happen, then it's more surefire that it'll go that that way. That's one there's something to us, like it's almost like manifestation or like seeing it before it happens. Like, I think that there is something to that way, expressing intent, uh yes, with our consciousness, like and maybe sometimes there's bigger canon things that are like, okay, well, if you're intent, you know, it's not it's not enough. Like, you're just a human. There's big things happening today. 9-11's happening today. Bleak example, but continue. But for the most part, I think that this this could there's something to oh, I saw this Doctor Strange clip that also kind of just like put it in my mind that that's what that movie's trying to say, too, is that our consciousness is like more powerful or transcendent or more wieldable than maybe we know. And then I also think there's something to brain waves, like your brain is in different types of waves from time to time. So there's like theta waves and delta waves, and like I think sometimes like your frequency can also be where your brain waves are, and if your brain waves are differently, you the your experience of the reality you're in can be different. There's times where I'm just like knowing what's happening before it's happening, as it's happening, and I'm just cooking and gliding, and all the things I'm saying, like and fallout when you try to use your speech, sometimes you like fail, or like if you were to roll for charisma, I'm rolling like 20, 20, 20, 20. I'm just like, okay, something else is going on. You know, like no one rolls 520s in a row. This is I would I'm not narcissistic enough to think this is like my normal behavior, you know. I keep saying you know, I'm trying to slip the throat of that hesitation word. Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 18:04

Murder on a part.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Paint you guys a picture of what goes on in my mental frames.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

We gotta kill that.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

So I don't want to try to like white claw, white claw. I do want to white claw my life, yeah. Be like, I gotta have to manifest all these perfect moments and get into these right brain waves. But when I'm in that right brain wave, I'm just like, this is this is it. Sometimes you're suffering, you're having bad days and shit. Yeah, thanks. But when I'm in that like just hidden mode where everything music is like, I feel like I'm just like everything feels so good, you know? The sunset hidden, the drives hidden.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

The day, the story of the day.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

One last pivot off of that thought and idea was something that happened to me. Like, I remember driving to Steve's house, listening to Ocho Cinco on Theo Vaughn's podcast, and I'm on the toll road, and it's just taking forever, bro. I'm just like, The drive? Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh, I've got so much longer to go. It's like still another 15 minutes to get there. It's like time was crawling. And this time, like the drive to there flew by. I get in the car and I start driving to my dad's house. Time's flying by. I'm cruising. I feel great. I kind of like, did I am I lost? I'm like, no, I just don't really drive this way anymore, but I'll I'll be there soon. Keep driving. Then I get to Waco, and I'm like, nah, dude, I definitely went too far. This is crazy. And I pull out my map and I went 30 minutes past Temple, and I was like, still cruising, cooking good. I had to drive an extra hour to get where I was going because I went 30 minutes past it and then 30 minutes back to it. But like, that's how good I was just like felt fine driving. I was like, what's the what's the difference there? You know what I mean? Hard to sometimes just your energy level, but I don't know. It was weird. It's another thing about consciousness that's weird, it's just like the perception of the experience can change so dramatically based on what what you know?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Your interpretation of the experience, your experiencing of the experience. Your brain waves, your thought patterns, your emotional attachments to experience what you believe is happening here. But then also the inarguable experience of what you're experiencing. But even in the same, I guess, kinda narrative, you can have drastically different vantage points that give you different emotional responses, uh spiritual faith of hope that aligns you differently than if you don't have hope. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 20:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

They're not running brain waves or like in the in the flow state whenever we see the story playing out.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure exactly what it is. Doctor Strange is kinda like pointing to um kind of pointing to like yoga would be a way that we would learn how to like use our consciousness to do things you would deem impossible. And then Doctor Strange is like, that's so cliche. Like you you're like the one person on earth that can actually use their consciousness in this crazy kind of way, and you're like, oh, it's just yoga. And then the lady's more or less like you're so dismissive of this stuff, and like you're asking me to help you understand something that you don't understand, and then you're dismissive of like the person who's telling you how to do the thing that you don't understand. That doesn't even make any sense to me. And then she just like, I don't know, like she like slaps him, but then slaps his astral body out of his physical body, and then he's like, Oh, and then comes back into his body, and then he's like, Well, what the Fuck was that? Sorry, pardon my language. And then she's like, Yeah, I'm telling you, don't I just I just put you in your astral body and then brought you back. Like, you don't know what you're talking about. Then he's like, Oh, okay, maybe I should. Then it like becomes Doctor Strange or whatever, trains with this lady. And uh, and I think the thing that they're pointing to right there is like the thing that I'm trying to say on this podcast, which is like yoga is something's happening there that's weird, and it's like your consciousness becomes it's like, yeah, it's like 2D to 3D. That's another thing I'm trying to like paint out as picture too. It's just like this 2D world that we're living in right now that you're like driving and you're like beep booping through your stuff. Sometimes it's like play with consciousness can put you into the 3D world where it's like all of your 2D-ness is just like irrelevant, or like, yeah, they're your problems, but you're not uh like things are you're you're in such a metaphysical plane, yeah. That all of your problems, it's not that they feel manageable or you're like, I'll deal with this. It's just like you're beyond that. You're like, Yeah, I'm like, I'm good, everything's good. We're gonna take action, and the narrative is playing out, and all I can do is what I'm doing right now, anyways, and we're doing that well, so it's like we're good. I don't know how it's like um almost what Jesus is saying that like his burden is light. It's like I feel that way when I'm like in a 3D consciousness, and just like the burden is light, like this is life, and things are good. There's a lot of things to be thankful and grateful for. And no matter what your situation looks like, the drama that's playing out within the situation is so like no one's life is any better than anybody else's life. Like, I think LeBron just got put on blast for by Drake for having like a side chick in front of like everybody in America.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

That's the suggestion, allegedly on allegedly that's what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Allegedly, that sucks for for LeBron as much as you know, his team's not in playoffs. He's got put on blast.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

Unfortunate, unfortunate for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

But then you look at LeBron, you're like, well, why can't I dunk like that and get paid millions of dollars? I'm saying, like the the narratives are the narratives of the narratives. That's me being off the deep end this week. Oh, consciousness, bro.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Your intent, your ability to express intent towards something, have prayer towards something, like want to create something. Our creative ability.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah, right, yeah, right. Yeah, it play feels like uh the right word because it's like, what is our consciousness doing? Like its duty, I guess, bearing its cross. But it's like I think it's experiencing, perceiving, and then analyzing, and then dictating behavior. But what's its goal? Uh play's a simple answer because it's like have fun, enjoy the experience, you know, like explore yourself through enjoyment. I think that's what we'd like to do.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

If that'll lead you, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like now what now something else needs to lead you. Something else needs to dictate the posture of your creative expression.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

The phrase that comes to mind is like bearing a cross. That's like the the duty part, you know.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

What is influence? We believe in something. Or something is guiding us, you know. I guess do you think that that realm that they're talking about in the Joe Rogan Chase Hughes DMT experience, that realm is always here, always present. And we're just interplaying with it at this level of consciousness and awareness in this current state. This is like default. But there is like that's the truth that is like the upper limits of that place. But like the inevitable truth is that we are at least there. There, like something is happening at this level, and we can experience it. Like, so maybe that the depths of it are always there on either side, or the the complexities, the the crazy, experiential, undeniable. That's like I the knowingness that comes from experience.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Do I think that's always there?

SPEAKER_02 26:22

The realm with the jesters or whatever they're talking about, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 26:27

There's a lot of do I have certainty on how I feel about this? Like, not exactly. The world is explored, who knows, man? Yeah. I think that um But thank God gave us a book about it. So there's that. That's one of the main like uh barriers between me and like just being more invested in being a psychonaut. So I don't think that we have to like it's almost potentially the knowledge of good and evil, which God is like, you don't need that. Like that that is like maybe that is the metaphysics of how he set up the earth to run or whatever, and he's like, bruh, like you don't need to see the settings. Like there's no there's no reason for you to go into the developers tab. Uh I don't want you looking at code. Like I'm trying to you're the main character in my store. Stop trying to look at the code. That's for like developers. I guess is what I would be worried that I am worried that God feels that way, you know. But then there's other times where and people will also like justify it by saying that the cybocillin is like a medicine for trauma and PTSD and stuff like that. So like they'll microdose and be like, well, I'm trying to use it as a medicine.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

That's become a thing in the last 10-15 years, big time. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

And I'm like, then it's probably true, you know. I think it is true. But I'd rather just take the big dose and then get like really out there and have a full experience and then kind of do it that way. Then the microdose around it, and then justify it by saying, well, we'll do a little bit. Like, ah so this guy Chase he had taken like a high dose of Alzheimer's medication. Oh. But while he was doing his DMT trip. What? Why? Because the Alzheimer's medication is like a memory supplement. So he was trying to like remember as much as he possibly could of how it felt like to be in that realm and bring it into like his earth body. Because he was like that invested in this fucking process. So he's at like a clinic that's like created and made for you to do this there, and it's like this really nice space with like good feng shui and like running water and bushes and this big giant like sofa thing in the middle. And then I guess like they have an intravenous, oh no, they have it like a anesthesia pump. And then if like you're having if it's too hard on you, you can like have them turn it down, and then it's just like you level back out, and then you can be like, Okay, I'm gonna like use the restroom real quick. And I guess like they have like a open pee policy, you can go pee anytime you need to, and then like he came back, and then he was like, All right, send me back up, and they're like, all right, and he's like gone out of there, bro. Back send me back up. No, dude. What back with his face elves? These are things happening in our space. Oh my gosh, yo, what's happening here? This is a real thing that people are doing. Same with the ayahuasca clinics and the shamans in Peru and in Mexico, the Ivy Game Centers. I don't know, Michael. Part of me is like, should we I want to go do the Ivy Game experience? It sounds insane. It sounds crazy, yeah. Yo, but I've been doing, I mean, for what? That's another question you gotta ask yourself. It's like for why? Why are you trying to sometimes it just helps helps you shed your bullshit, I guess, is what most people say, and then these hyper competent people are into shedding their bullshit just as like a like a practice, you know, just so that like Joe Rogan be like, yeah, I'm always trying to like he says after an experience like that, you have like a folder called my old bullshit, and then you could like just not open that folder, but pretty much everybody opens that folder and then pulls some of it like back out. He's like, I do too. Like, it's hard to stop doing all of your bad habits that you've had throughout your life all at once, but hopefully these experiences help you like shed off as much as you can from time to time so that way you can become this better version of yourself, this higher conscious being. So that's kind of where they're coming from, I guess, as far as people like Chase Hughes and Joe Rogan and Chris Williamson doing these things.

SPEAKER_02 30:47

I agree with all of that. But then now I'm thinking it's Christ. You know what I'm saying? Or like that is Christ-like energy, or like whatever that is going towards that shedding of us of the sin that surrounds us. That's inevitable, that's battling, plaguing us, the things that we know that we're doing, or you know, whatever. Yeah. Our shame and our guilt.

SPEAKER_03 31:12

No.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

And then having that leak back out. But uh, hopefully you can get you you can become less and less of that. Like legitimately, like sanctification. That's like what the idea is. You know what I'm saying? I think it's like just what it is.

SPEAKER_00 31:26

You're striking cords. I feel like you're hitting that thing right now. Yeah, it's a Christ. You can take the stretch saying, So, Justin, you're saying that taking DMT would make you Christ-like. You're saying that there's just a resemblance in the metaphysical process of trying to do something, even maybe even doing something scary to come into contact with a spirit that would make you feel like you transcended your problems. And there is something that resembles Christ's like nature to you in that thing and and what you know the meta story of Christ to be.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah, no, I know what I'm saying, because it's like he was a person and then he came back. Like that's and he brought other people back too. It's like the idea of he was a real person. Like, okay. Feels like he died, you know what I'm saying? Feels like we all die. You know, that's like that's that's inevitable. But he didn't die though. It's like, yo. One other thing that um oh you don't believe he came back or whatever. The but like historically speaking, this is like a person who like did these things, and like we're still talking about it. And it was so magnificent that it started this movement.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Yeah. One other thing that um uh one other thing that Chase's had said was that he so he he they asked him if they wanted to pray over the DMT before it takes the DMT. And I'm just thinking to myself, like, that's a weird question. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

And then these people in the clinic?

SPEAKER_00 33:11

Yeah. Okay. And then um I guess his wife prays over it, but he doesn't pray over it. And then he goes into the experience, and these like aliens, I guess he said they like abducted him and then like freaking cut him open like vertically, dissected him, yeah. And he's like not having any pain during this process, but then they're working on like his stomach for like what felt like a long time, like hours, and then like working on his um maybe either his heart or his head. I can't remember which one he said. And then after the whole experience, he comes back out and he's like, you know, telling his wife about this, and then his wife says that when she prayed over it, she prayed that they that the whatever he was coming into contact with would fix his um his stomach in his heart or a stomach in his head, because he has like something wrong with his gut, and then he had something wrong with his heart, and then she was specifically asked for those things, and that was like the first he's like, Yeah, right. Start doing all this stuff, and she's like, yo, that's kind of crazy. So it's like also, what if his heart is healed after that? What are we even talking about then? That's you know what I mean. That's what's that's what becomes like 3D. It's like into in the 2D, you have like a tummy problem, and then somehow in the third dimension, aliens slice you open, go into your gut, then you come back into your body and you're healed. Like that's that's bananas, you know what I'm like. I can't, I don't want to keep asking, do you know what I mean? I don't know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 34:42

What happened there? It's crazy that these that these places exist to do this specific type. I've heard of the ayahuasca stuff or I've heard of the iPhone stuff, but I never heard of a DMT memory-enhanced trip like place though. Many of them that's like Psychonaut Academy 101.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Dude, I'm yeah, and then my dad watches this podcast called The Why Files, and then the Wi-Files host has been on Joe Rogan, and Joe Rogan talks about how much he loves that show, and then like the the that show just had an episode like this week also about a DM, like they're both the host was into DMT, and then the guest they brought in was talking, it's like a DMT expert, and then they're having this whole breakdown. My dad's like, You seen this stuff? And I was like, trying to I was I was trying to show him Chase Hughes, and then he's like, Well, let me show you this, and then he's like, This is a guy talking about and I was like, dude, I'm trying to show you the same thing. Like, what are the odds of that? You know? It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 35:40

Wow. Crazy, unexplainable, deeper than we know.

SPEAKER_00 35:49

With all that being said, deeper than we know. You got something for the people? What do you what do you do with that? That's always the end of a sermon. Or at least maybe how I would write them. I've seen a lot of sermons be like, here's a lot of theology, or it's practicality, how you walk with that.

SPEAKER_02 36:08

There is a better place. There is a true objective truth, something going on here that's being generated from somewhere that we do not understand. So lean not on your own understanding. I think there's uh a couple of the scriptures in that same vein, but either way, like his ways are higher than our ways. And there's a trust in whatever that thing is that's outside of us, whatever it is. The create the creation of consciousness, whatever goes on in those realms. We can't understand it, bro. We don't get it. Not at this level. Not in the in the 2D, like literally in the 2D, 2D to the 3D dimension jump analysis. There's a unquantifiable jump into an unquantifiable place that we don't even, we can we can't quite quite comprehend, you know, not even close. Yeah. And we get a glimpse of it sometimes. But I think that thing is good for us, wants us to do well, wants us to do, wants us to have a good story. The creation of story itself, the thing that is giving us experience of story, wants us to have a good story. The thing that gave us the experience of it. It's generated from somewhere. I believe that. Outside of our understanding. Yeah. You can't bow to that. You gotta bow to that. And then you gotta know his name. I think there's uh it's just like if Jesus was alive and he died and he came back, that'd be enough for me if I saw it. You know what I'm saying? That'd be enough for me if I saw it. Yeah, it was enough for a lot of people, and it was enough for a lot of people, and that's what's trippy. It's just like, yo, what? And so like trying to embrace that fully, it's hard. The whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

Yeah. And then we're clouded in what we interpret that to be, you know.

SPEAKER_04 37:59

The deceiver.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

Definitely not an ad to do any DMT or anything, but there's a place that exists outside of that place or outside of our current understanding.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

And even that, you know what I'm saying? We we're we're limited into a degree.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

If you want like a if you want a real psychedelic experience, pray in faith that it will be done. Then watch it be done. That'll be a trip. Find find a way to conceptualize in your heart how to pray in faith. That's a high-level spell. If you want to use a Runescape analogy, to truly know how to pray in faith, this and then it'll be done with certainty. Part of it is you have to be convicted to pray for it, and that's be that's an ego-less expression. So you'd have to be outside of your ego to really feel can true conviction to pray for something right to happen.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

What the best outcome is ultimately. What needs to happen.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

The way that Jesus was like, you have been healed for through your faith. It's like the the feeling of like pure righteousness occurring, and then conviction that it could happen right now, that it should happen right now in the name of Jesus. This is gonna happen right now. It's like that's you gotta be on some. I don't know, that's what I'm saying. Sometimes in those other brainwaves, it's like I can feel that thing. There's a podcast where I was talking about no, I know that doesn't happen. I know that the story goes this way. Like, believe in that. I'll believe in that for you. It's happening. Watch. Boom, it happens. Maybe you can't be there all the time. Maybe even trying to be there isn't the kind of energy that takes you there. Lord knows. What I do know is I'm trying to figure it out here. Keep going, keep going, keep pushing for it.

SPEAKER_02 39:47

I'll try to figure it out here, but um, yeah, man. Ultimately, I think my life is getting crazier the more I'm just like trying to dig into who Jesus is, like develop a relationship and become more like Christian or Christ-like, or give that more intensity, or you know, I'm saying more importance or significance on time units expended to do things. It's like this is a good worthwhile expenditure of time units for sure. It's like working out. You know what I'm saying? It's like I love spending those units, spending out those units, bro. Oh boy, I'll be hitting them legs, yeah, hitting them chests, whatever it is, bro. But the same idea of it's just net positive. It's just a net positive expenditure. If you go 50, 40, 60, whatever, however long you get, 70, 80 years of working out, you know, staying fit, like keeping that energy, that sacrifice continual and uh consistent, like crazy, different variations, you know, levels. David Goggins is out there to show you like the uh ultimate extremes of this. Yeah. People doing ultramarathons and stuff, but whatever it is, it's worthwhile to do so and acquire that same energy and intensity and importance to carve out for like following this Christ, Jesus person who did this thing, this miracle.

SPEAKER_04 41:17

And it's like why? Why real person did it for you for real?

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Like the way that we're we're real people by our own measures, you know. He really did this, and really did that. Like for us? Or he died some other way. I guess the Quran like doesn't think that he died. I think they said that he was like a prophet to some degree, but then he got like swept up the same way, kind of like Elijah and I think Enoch got like they didn't like die particularly, they got like brought up to heaven. But um Shroud of Turin, there's just so much stuff out there that's crazy. The history behind it. How do we trust history at all? Like your great, great, great, great, great grandfather. Like he probably lived a crazy life, you know. And he was like a real person, because you're like a real person. And the only way that you could be a real person is if he was a real person, but like that's what's like getting passed down here, the experience of being a real person. And he did that for us. And he's gone. Foundational. Yeah I'm saying, yeah. It's gonna be foundational. It's unbelievable. That's beautiful. Literally unbelievable. So we're trying to run wrestle with that. I'm praying we get the strength too. And in doing so, we were able to reach uh promised land.

SPEAKER_04 43:10

And your kids is kids.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Yeah. Sort of thing in legacy all the time, but I think in decades, yeah. It's different.

SPEAKER_02 43:25

138. Anything else? We love 'em.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

I love you guys. Keep going on the podcast. Keep rocking and rolling. Keep rocking.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

Keep the main thing, the main thing. Reading your Bibles, doing whatever it looks like in your current chapter. Expound upon that. Like working out. Like just go start going on walks, go to the sauna, and build on that. Keep pushing. And I'll see you in a decade. For real. Tell me what you think. It's gonna start small changes. And like, yeah, don't think of it like day by day, but also like it a decade's time. Like give yourself some time.

unknown 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:01

You can do some damage in a decade.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

It's always ever gonna be only what you can do today, anyways. And then there's something to be said for just doing today. It's like the same value set as if you were yoked.

SPEAKER_02 44:13

Mm-hmm. Just working out, man. Spiritually getting yoked. His burden is easy. Takes our yoke. We take his yoke. Love you. We'll see you in a billionaires. Rolling through the city to the light.