FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#223 Sustainability in Packaging - Changing our thinking around digital packaging to a more holistic view
In this episode we talk to Christophe Imbert, Global Strategic Marketing Manager - Digital Inkjet Printing - for Lubrizol in Barcelona. Christophe holds an engineering degree and a PhD in polymer chemistry. His professional journey began in the paper and packaging industry, and since joining Lubrizol in 2008, he has taken on various roles in labs, technical areas, and marketing.
Currently, he leads the development of color dispersions and components for inkjet inks, leveraging my expertise in chemical innovation.
In this discussion with Frazer, Christophe delves into the complexities of packaging sustainability, exploring misconceptions, regulatory changes, and innovations in print technology and highlights the need for a holistic approach to sustainability. They also discuss the other future trends shaping the industry.
The session includes:
• Introduction to Christophe Imbert and his role at Lubrizol
• Discussion on the sustainability of paper cups and misconceptions
• Importance of a holistic approach in understanding recyclability
• Overview of new EU regulations impacting packaging sustainability
• Examination of trends in flexible packaging and its challenges
• Insights into the role of water-based inks in sustainability
• Call to action for industry collaboration on sustainable projects
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
Speaker 2:Well, hi there and welcome to one of our first Future Print Podcasts for the new year. I'm very pleased to have with me Christoph from Lubrizol. Christoph, good to see you and good to hear you. Good to see you.
Speaker 3:Fraser, nice, to see you. Happy New Year. This is the start of the year.
Speaker 2:Exactly, christophe. Just introduce yourself to the audience, tell us a little bit about you and your role at Lubrizol.
Speaker 3:Okay, so my name is Christophe Inbert, so located in Barcelona and working for Lubrizol for 16 years now. My role today is around marketing strategic marketing for the business that Lubrizol have for digital and especially for the dispersions. For the dispersions so Lubrizol is an American international company with different locations and especially here in Europe. We are working, I would say, mostly in the UK to develop solutions for the digital industry, including water-based pigments and dye dispersions, but also coatings, binders and other kind of, I would say, additives for the inks. We are not doing the inks, we're just supplying components for our partner that making inks that could be ink suppliers or also EMs that developing their own inks. Sure, sure.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that Nice intro. How long have you been in the industry then?
Speaker 3:So let's say I mean 16 years old. My background is around paper. So I started in the paper industry 20, 25 years ago working for some, some men and some major paper manufacturers, and also move out to to the corrugated industry in a way before to join the result. So my background is, we say, mostly on material science background, multi-technical, but moving to more marketing commercial roles during the my years in in louisville yeah, yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that Nice intro. Now, lubrizol were with us at our Cambridge event at the end of 2024. Just for anyone who didn't see that, just give us a flavour of what you were talking about there, and then we'll move into 2025 to find out more about what your plans are for this year.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, correct. So yeah, we speak a bit about sustainability in packaging. So what sustainability means for us in packaging? And I think really the idea was to change and beat the minds set of some people around some ideas that people have on sustainability in packaging and especially into recycling, reusing on this kind of thing, compostability, so really the approach that Lubizzle have around that and I'm not saying all around digital, but globally, I would say, for packaging, because we're also suppliers of different type of coatings and additives for the packaging industries to have a much more holistic view about the problem. So I'll give you an example a bit.
Speaker 3:We started the presentation speaking about the paper cup. So paper cup today is something that everybody sees, all of us. So you all have a coffee machine at work and you see now that the cups have been replaced. So you don't see any, or mostly don't see any, plastic cups, but you see a lot of paper cups. Are they recyclable, are they sustainable? So there's a lot of misunderstanding of things around that. One of the first things that you need really to consider the whole thing, the whole material. So it doesn't mean that I look fancy, look greenish, look paper. In most of the case today, this paper could contain a liners, that is, a polyethylene liners, which is not not it's I would not say not recyclable because it's, it's another. Another mistake that a lot of people are doing is that, uh, I prefer to say that he's, um, he's not economically viable economically recyclably because it's. It will cost a lot of energy and effort to recycle these kind of papers. Okay, so means that most of the time they just finish incinerated. Okay.
Speaker 1:So, yeah.
Speaker 3:So now the things are moving Also I'm not saying that the industry is static on that and a lot came also from the regulations. So in Europe we have a lot of regulations that are coming in. I would say perhaps the last one that you will hear in the future is the packaging and packaging and packaging waste directive, so PPWD. So this kind of directive will really drive the future. But now in the middle that's often another regulation that brings a bit the base of all that which is a single-use plastic directive in Europe.
Speaker 3:So all these regulation directives are going to more sustainable products, more recyclable, more reusable. In that case they are driving a lot the effort and the developments in this area. And if I come back on the paper cup, you you see now that, uh, the lot of things are starting to be advertised as a cup that are using renewable resources or or like a pla, for example, this kind of things. Here again a lot of misunderstanding, and that's why I'm saying we should really have a holistic approach, understand not only the product but also all the chain around that, the chain of value around that. I mean it's not because a product is recyclable that it will be recycled If you don't have the equipment and don't have the infrastructure to be recycled, it will not.
Speaker 3:And this really thinks that we need perhaps to push more into our local governments and bring that up into the EU against the materials it's also bringing to the people, bringing to the means to, I would say, to recycle more. So I mean just a good example. If, speaking about the PLA that is supposed to be compostable, so it's good, I mean it's nice, but it's only compostable into industrial conditions, which means that if you throw it away just in the landfill, it will not recycle, it will not compost. So we need heat, humidity, moisture, microbial activity to be done, and it's done in some industrial facilities. And if you look a bit in Europe, for example, we have only 20 to 30 facilities that can recycle PLA today, and most of them because this is compostable capabilities. That means that these facilities are used to compost food.
Speaker 3:So yeah, again, a lot of things need to really be considered when you do that. So we, as a result, prefer to have this approach more holistic, seeing what is currently the best way to recycle paper. Thanks, I mean all the paper processing, and I'm coming back a bit to my roots in the paper industry. The paper industry are recycling paper for years now. The paper industry are recycling paper for years now. So all the chains, I would say not only the recycling, but also the pickup of the products, collections, all the cleaning, all these things is already well set up.
Speaker 3:And in that case, if you have a product that goes into this chain doesn't really need to be made with the best renewable resources, but something that is good enough to go into this process and fully recyclable without waste, I mean it's a really good first step to do that. I'm not saying this is the final step, but at least today it's a much better step than what we have today.
Speaker 2:So, christophe, I just want to loop back. So we kind of know with paper cups that to make them waterproof they're often coated in something like a plastic.
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 2:So that defines it as not being totally recyclable, isn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, this is what I'm saying. I mean the plastic. Today, most of these cups are lined with polyethylene. It's wholly recyclable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:So here really also, we need also, if you want to find an alternative to that, you need to really to bring back to the labs, and this is what we started to see a lot in the market today. This is called a barrier coating, because really what we need is to bring a barrier. So, depending a bit on the product, the packaging packaging we speak about, the cup cup should be a barrier to water, of course, but also to hot water, which is a bit different. So these these kind of things, uh, even more difficult, uh, if you speak about um other kind of of packaging for food, uh, uh, for example, it can be buyer to grease, it need to be buyer to oxygen also. So this replacing what we call the multi-layer composites packaging, so a flexible packaging that is a multi-layer like constructions, that is not recyclable neither.
Speaker 2:So it's quite a challenge.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really challenging, it's really challenging, and you guys, for clarity's sake, you're working with a number of partners to develop, to develop yeah, yeah, yeah, we, we I mean a bit the same approach I mean we are chemical companies means that we, uh, we're trying also to work with people that formulating that uh, bringing this, this, uh, this coating into the market, uh, so all really our core things is to develop the chemistry beyond that and this uh it's also I mean, if I, if I just uh make the correlation with what we're doing into uh, with with the, the inks, dispersion of the inks, uh, this is really what lubrizol is strong at is develop alternative chemistry, new chemistry to help the market grow and to develop new products.
Speaker 3:Okay, so this is where we are. So we bring in, we have some coatings, we have some resins, uh, we have some additives that people can use to formulate uh and to make these barrier coatings. So we have several experience and now starting to have some good result in the UK, for example, with some barrier coatings. So, yeah, we know that it works. But more than that, we know also that it can go into the cycles for recycling of the paper, and this is proof that we are working, I would say, on all the different parts of the chain, so working with people that are making the recycling, recycling House, but also the paper makers and all these people.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so thank you for that. That was quite a clear explanation there. Just thinking a bit about 2025 and your focus, particularly your focus in terms of the team you're working with what have you got in mind for 2025? What do you see happening? Are there any particular trends you want to pick up on?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's really really interesting and really difficult to answer questions.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:I would say we all know a bit about, let's say, the world situations and a lot of uncertainty around that. So, yeah, I mean 24 was at least for us was a really good year. We are growing. We see also the market recovering from all the pandemic things, so a lot of things are going well. We hope they will continue this dynamic in 25, but again they will really depend about the, the global economic situations, uh, and to that, um, I would say more more specifically what we're doing, uh, for the, the dispersions, uh, so we are seeing, um, I mean to perhaps two, two, two things we're speaking about a lot about packaging.
Speaker 3:So packaging is still moving forward. We see a bit of delay perhaps with options, especially on the big equipments, but it will go. I mean we're really confident that it will pick up. Because I up? Because we see, in comparison to other markets, that a bit more mature in this digital transformation Packaging will go into that. Perhaps the big news also is we're starting to see much more flexible packaging. So not only paper-based packaging but also flexible packaging. That's going up on that. Uh, those who include we can include into that perhaps the poaches and all the uh what replacing paper best. But replacing, I would say the, the, what's the traditional, uh uh, plastic, plastic packaging. So this is starting. Also, we see, see some at Drupal last year, we see some equipment picking up onto that. So this is something that obviously we need to follow around the 25.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, on the other side I mean you know Lubriz always speak a lot of packaging, but we are working and historically working of packaging. But uh, we are, we are working, uh, and historically uh uh working to a lot into the textile. Yeah, uh say, textile is much more mature market for digital, so the transformation to inkjet are especially for, um, for polyester and and dye. It's uh, it's, it's well, I would say, much more mature today. Uh, what's a bit perhaps correlations when we see in packaging, is the adoption into the pigments, um, so pigments, water-based pigments are especially for cotton and and these kind of things. Uh, yeah, we see, definitely uh this year and last, the last couple of year, the growth on the direct to film.
Speaker 1:So dtf type of printing, yeah, so.
Speaker 3:DTF is really moving really, really quickly, really strong. I mean, if you look at the cost of the equipment, the cost of the inks and also all this coming from this, it's really a nice. I mean it's a really successful new process. Okay, I don't think it will replace the role to roll uh, I will say that uh by some discussions to go on to the dtg or these kind of things.
Speaker 2:But uh why?
Speaker 3:would you say?
Speaker 2:why would you say it's not a direct replacement technology?
Speaker 3:a size, size of the size, I guess yeah yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, exactly production size, I mean dtf is really nice to make T-shirts, to make garments, these kind of things. I mean short run rolled really well. As I say, cost of the equipment is really affordable for a lot of people. But we're not speaking about beard rolls. We're not speaking at the moment this kind of thing. I would say at the moment.
Speaker 2:No, I think you're right. It's more bespoke, isn't it? It's more custom, I think I would say at the moment let's see. I think you're right it's more bespoke, isn't it? It's more custom. Yeah, exactly, you know shorter runs. Yeah, we get that. That makes sense, just out of curiosity. You mentioned T-shirt, but is it also in other fabrics, for other materials, you know? Is it for furnishings, is it? You know what else? Perhaps fabrics that are used for signage, you know? Or graphics? Where else is there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, at the moment I mostly see on this kind of of of the men of t-shirts and fashions.
Speaker 3:But of course I mean at the, I mean three years ago. I would say the DTF was was nothing, it was three, three equipment coming. I would say the DTF was nothing, it was three equipments coming from the forest and that's all Now say, I mean, look at Trupa or Printed United, it was everywhere. So I mean the evolutions of the equipment, also from the OEMs, is really strong. So what will be the future to that? Can it be expanded to bigger type of applications? You mentioned textile for furniture, these kind of things. Yeah, it can be. I mean all the opportunity to personalize something would have a great future.
Speaker 2:I think with DTF, yeah, I think there's an opportunity in that, isn't it? And it seems to be growing and developing and and and also it lends itself to, um, you know the way that people might sell online. So you know, literally, kind of producing short run for with designs or with particular creatives via online channels, like like, uh, you know, like the web, um, so it's, it's got that online demand approach to it. That really hasn't it yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 3:I think this starting to to found its own space, I think, uh, I would say, will perhaps not replace or the other kind of uh, of inkjet, uh, uh application for textile, but I see definitely the move also in the industry, I mean coming from uh standard screen printing or this kind of things yeah, a lot of things are going to uh, uh, now can be made uh with this kind of of techniques.
Speaker 3:So yeah, and and of course, so of course, in use is is really uh, really interesting yeah, and you know it also relates to the, the usage, as you said.
Speaker 2:So so a sports event, a festival, a rock festival, you know short-run production for specific need short-run production for specific need.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, exactly. So there's I mean, there's a lot of of innovations that I need still need to be made into that.
Speaker 3:So we uh, um, I think one of the things that's uh, I mean coming back on the on the sustainability parts yeah I would say one of the the things that I was a bit surprised but I I'm also happy to see that some people have picked up that topic it's the use of polyester films to that. So polyester is recyclable, of course, but using plastic, in that case, that's not the best materials to use.
Speaker 2:So I know that some ongoing work is works done and we participate in some of them also to to find alternative much more sustainable, based on on fiber-based materials yeah, okay now interesting, um, just as we sort of come to the sort of wrapping up a bit um, you, you know you're going to be in valencia for our future print event down in valencia. Have you got, have you thought in terms of the topics that you'll be looking at there, or is it still up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a bit early, but we will definitely insist on the water-based pigments inks because I think again coming back on the sustainability part it's really important today that the industry and I would say the industry should promote a bit more this kind of ink and equipment, because it's one of the key also to meet the requirements from the European Union in terms of recyclability and directives.
Speaker 3:So think about digital inkjet, water basing jet, as a really nice way, uh, to meet these objectives yeah, okay so green did all these things uh, it's, uh, it's, and I think I really, uh, I hope and we had a discussion, I think, for the last time. I mean lobbying also from all part of an industry uh, more into the eu to to bring up the fact that inkjet printing is also one way to be more sustainable in the future. So I think it's something really interesting. So, yeah, of course, we'll keep these sustainability things. We'll speak about water-based inkjet, speaking about high stability dispersions. That is one of the key also to achieve the performance, because we're speaking a lot about sustainability, about that but people also need to have some performance products to run and to be more, I would say, cost effective. Cost is one of the big things also that we need to take into consideration for the adoption of digital. So, yeah, all these things we have, I think, lubrizol a lot of tools, a lot of products that can help the industry to move forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're very open to having conversations with anyone about particular projects or particular yeah, absolutely, I would say we are.
Speaker 3:We're covering a lot of different area, uh, from uh, I would say from from dispersants to dispersions, uh and uh and and also binders, also all the things, but also also for the coatings, primers, all these kind of things. So we're really happy. We speak about water-based, but I have to mention also that we are leader also in the dispersant area for UV, so these kind of things. We see UV is still growing and still going well and I think there will be a space for every kind of technology into that. Perhaps seeing a bit less of solvent, of course, but at least UV water base will be for me in the future, the main technology for digital.
Speaker 2:On that note, thank you very much, christophe, good to speak to you. Nice kind of fluid enlightening of what Lubrizol are doing, giving us a bit of clarity and thinking about this year and what's going to happen this year. So thank you very much, Christophe.
Speaker 3:Thanks all, fraser, I'll. See you all in. Valencia, and if you have any questions, please drop me an email. I will be really pleased to answer.
Speaker 2:We'll put some show notes on this podcast and you'll be able to find Christophe Inbert on the show notes and obviously he's on LinkedIn as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you very much, Christophe.
Speaker 3:Great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content coming up and visit futureprinttech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint Podcast.
