FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#227 - Finding the Why? – Challenging stereotypes for digital print for packaging with Allan Bendall & Dr Simon Daplyn of Sun Chemical
In this episode we talk to Allan Bendall and Dr. Simon Daplyn from Sun Chemical about how the digital print technology sector needs to 'Find the Why' of digital in order to inspire the converting community to adopt digital printing technology in a bigger way.
According to Allan and Simon, the technical barriers to adoption are no longer there - the tech can perform in a variety of packaging sectors yet the integration of digital remains low.
Why is this the case? Bendall and Daplyn attribute it to several factors, including risk aversion, perceived disruption, organizational culture, and communication gaps. For instance, when brand buyers are incentivized to secure the lowest possible price from converters, it naturally fosters a culture driven by cost above all else. Strategic marketers need to connect with the potential!!
Regardless, the forces driving change are gaining momentum. Bendall highlights that packaging is no longer just a practical tool for product protection. With a younger, experience-driven consumer demographic, increasing brand promiscuity, and deeper digital integration, digital printing should be viewed as a powerful tool for enhancing shopper engagement rather than simply replacing analogue printing.
Moreover, disrupted supply chains make it essential for converters, brands, and retailers to adopt technology that adds agility and flexibility to navigate supply challenges. The opportunity is undeniable—yet many still refuse to wake up and smell the coffee!
Discover how digital printing is not just a technological advancement but a game-changer in consumer engagement. We explore the ever-expanding role of data, delving into the possibilities of connected packaging through QR codes and augmented reality. Listen to how these innovations can yield valuable consumer insights and the strategic adaptations required to manage unique SKUs through robust ERP and MIS solutions. Our discussion doesn't shy away from the hurdles converters face, from operational complexities to regulatory compliance, making it essential for industry players to adapt and evolve.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the latest episode of the Future Print Podcast. I'm happy to have with me today two gentlemen and one that I haven't spoken to for a while, but he's making a return to the Future Print community in a slightly different way. So welcome to the podcast Alan Bendall from Sun Chemical and Dr Simon Daplin from Sun Chemical. Simon almost needs no introduction because he's a bit of a veteran of these podcast interviews. But, alan, welcome back, by the way, to FuturePrint.
Speaker 2:You've spoken at previous events not when you were at Sun, but obviously that's a new development. So we're going to be talking around a number of things today, not least your addition to the team at Sun and also with your background. That's, I guess, slightly different to the other members of the team and I think that's an interesting thing to follow, and we'll have a discussion around that. Before we get into the actual flow of the discussion, it would be great if you don't mind giving us a bit of an introduction about yourself and your experience, because you're not quite a veteran, or are you a veteran, I don't know, but anyway you can tell us a bit about your background and also what it is you're going to be doing and already doing at Sun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I've been in and around the print and packaging space as much as I don't want to admit it, knocking on the door of 32 years. All of this, primarily up until a few years ago, has been in the analogue space and you know that's been in and around the Gravure print space, especially from artwork, graphics, color management supply chain.
Speaker 3:I spent a lot of time making Gravure cylinders and latterly, you know, becoming account managers and directors for various key accounts within my former business for various key accounts within my former business and you know we've seen, let's say, quite a lot of change, although I would say over that time we've seen incremental change in the way that the world has grown up and you know the supply chain has grown up and ultimately, you know, I'm really excited to see where digitally printed packaging has its space. I think we now have a point where we've got technology which is fit for purpose, we know it works, We've got some really interesting developments in that space, some really interesting developments in that space and, ultimately, we've already seen some developments where labels have very much become quite mature as a digital model and it's quite interesting to see now how this evolves and develops into other market spaces.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so your background's been around packaging and analogue and the print's been a part of that. What are your sort of initial thoughts on digital print? Then, like you said, it's become very sophisticated and able to work in lots of environments. So what's your view really on digital print and its potential, I suppose?
Speaker 3:I think the potential is massive. You know I've been following digital for the last five or six years, as you said. You know I'm no stranger to future print and the community that you guys have built around. You know the environment has been very engaging and you know I think we've gone from, or it feels as if we've gone from, this kind of yeah, we think we've got some technology that might be interesting to. Yeah, do you know what? We've got technology and we've got all of the components. You know the key ingredients to make a success in this space, especially in and around. You know, printed packaging.
Speaker 3:But I think we now got to this almost a watershed moment where we want to make sure that we can, you know, integrate this technology into the packaging supply chain with the backdrop of a world which is completely different than what we ever have done before. So I think you know we've always been led by, you know analog technology and what it's capable of, but I think today's consumer and today's brands are looking for something different. You know we're not the consumers we have to do today. Um, aren't my generation anymore? Right that? You know they're expecting something different. You know they want to sit on their couch at night and they want to click a button and they want something you know to engage with and it's no longer just the product that sits within a package because you know it's um, it's, it's performing a function to keep that product fresh or, you know, consumable. They want to engage with content at the same time. So you know the demographic isn't just wanting a product that looks nice on the shelf, they're looking for something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the potential that digital can play that role for the enhancing and experiences is huge, isn't it? And I guess also with your background experience you've worked with over the years, with brands and and and converters as well and given that, as you've rightly just said, consumers' behaviour is changing massively and I guess supply chains as well are becoming more complex and challenging, with that in mind, then, with brands and converters, what's holding them back in terms of implementing digital print? What's the problem?
Speaker 3:That's a really interesting question and honestly, I think you know we've all got our part to play in into, you know, trying to bring this technology alive, um, and education in the space. Because I think you know, if you take the power of digital is not just to create a me too of of, you know, an analog package, right, you could say, well, it's really well placed to get a quick market entry point for a product. That's fine, that's fully understood, and actually digital is well placed to be more agile into getting brands and getting products into the markets, even if they're to explore and exploit and understand what the market appetite is for new categories or products in the market. But I think when you want to really unlock the value and this is the more complicated and the more complex element to this is that you know we, we need to unlock the value that digital holds and I'm not entirely sure that everybody's on the same page to understand exactly how to extract and what. Could you know what value could be extracted, you know, by implementing digitally printed packaging, and I think this, you know it goes back to how do consumers want to consume content today, you know? Do they physically want to just consume more of what they've already taken, or does the pandemic and the move to e-content, you know, giving them this taste and this flavor that says, well, yeah, I can. I can consume more content than I ever have online.
Speaker 3:Yeah, shopping experiences have changed and so, rather than just going to the supermarket and picking up their favorite brand because it looks great on the shelf or because they know you know it's high quality or or the product is fit for their needs, they've now been exposed to this. You know virtual world, where they can explore so many other things regarding, you know, the content. And when you add that together with the fact that we've got completely different, you know leading demographic in today's world. You know today's generation wants something more than, and probably demands something more than, just picking a packet up off of the shelf and you know saying, yeah, do you know what I'm going to use it? So digitally printed content, whether it's packaging or other media, is well placed to be able to create that variable content, to be able to create a more personalized touch point for the brand at the point at which that consumer's making decisions. Because, let's be fair, we're almost going now into this hybrid world where not only are you shopping online, but now we're starting to see people going back into stores, and so now they're wanting to get a similar experience when they go back into the store, rather than just picking up the same pack again that they used to.
Speaker 3:So I think there's there's change and there's the management of change. Um, but one thing's for sure, you know, from a brand's perspective, they can't expect to um, you know, just just extract the same value just by, as I said, creating a me too pack on the shelf. You know there has to be more to it and I think that you know, having the understanding and the knowledge as to how to not only create that content but how to deliver it through the supply chain is going to be one of those big challenges that the brands and the print community feel. In the end, we're not just talking about okay, well, I'll go and buy this nice new digitally capable printing press and plug it into my existing supply chain, into my existing factory, because then that just goes away from trying to understand or trying to deliver that value, because, again, you're just. You know the danger could be that you're just plugging into an existing supply chain, just with a different piece of technology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's not as straightforward as all um, as all that. Is it, simon, about bringing you into the conversation? Thanks, alan, and we've talked about this over the years. This very thing haven't we perhaps in for different markets, but packaging, um, possibly, is the biggest single market that print plays a role in and possibly one of the most pivotal ones, as Alan said. It's about branding, recognition, experience and all of those things. Surely, brands understand the playing field they're in at the moment in terms of the kind of things Alan said, in terms of experience, in terms of variability and all of that and the competitive edge that digital can provide. Is it as simple as there's just a time lag between that understanding and really understanding what digital is about, or what's the what, why is, why is this sort of taking so long?
Speaker 4:It's another good question and I think there's there's not necessarily a single answer to that. I think there's there's not necessarily a single answer to that. I think there's there's multiple facets to this. I think I think, and generally when you go to and you talk in the community and what's great for us is Alan has that experience with converters, with brands, and can bring their voice to be better represented within Sun Chemical. So we can understand that when you look at panel sessions and when you go to print for packaging specific conferences, that the future print, one last year and and maybe some others, that there's always a focus on what digital can't do more than what it can do, if that makes sense. So one of the blockers has been well, maybe, in my opinion, um, it's almost a looking for fault, needing digital to be perfect, to do everything that analog can do and everything that the digital benefit can bring, rather than looking specifically at okay, I've got an analog process that works really well in this area, but I want to expand my business or I need to do more bespoke packaging, personalization, I need to vary my design on a more regular basis to keep the consumer engaged, I need to run regional promotion, all those kinds of things that we know digital can play, and I think we're always hung up in the digital space of talking about the technology of digital and the reality is most of the brands and converters probably don't care about how it's printed. It's all about the value of the printed product, as Alan mentioned, and we talk a lot and have talked a lot. The first thing that comes up what's the benefit of digital? Almost everyone in their top three says short run and the reality is the runs, the run lengths are getting shorter and we talk about the, the crossover point in cost. Everyone focuses on the cost kind of crossover graph where below this certain run like, let's say, 5 000 meters because that's that's a typical accepted value these days in packaging Anything below 5,000 meters is in a sweet spot for digital. And then above that maybe there's a question of whether it should be employed or not, but we never really talk about what that means for the number of print jobs that are actually done. So if you read some of the work that's been done by Pyra and others, just a small increase in the number of short run volumes. So I think Smith has said that Carton board was going to go from 26% to 29% of jobs below 5,000 meters. And if you translate that into a working year, that's over a million extra print jobs that they've got to fit into the factory just for that 3% change in differential. If you work out the amount of packaging that's printed and that percentage, so fitting in a million jobs, that's a million more setups, that's screens or kind of cylinders that need to be prepared, stored, stocked.
Speaker 4:So we talk about the value of digital in short run, but it's flexibility, it's agility, it's being able to switch between jobs very quickly, apply a quick design, change, um. And it's not just about the short run. It's about how you then fit that number of additional short runs into a, into a production environment that potentially offers more value. And then the other thing is about what. What's the most valuable commodity today, right is, is data. It's everybody's uh, uh.
Speaker 4:We're continually told that the companies that the biggest thing that they want brands take over other brands for their kind of, for their database right, for their consumer insights. And where packaging is likely to go we start to see it now is more connected packaging. And there's a bit of a scourge of the QR code, right, everybody kind of gets a bit bored with the QR code, but what that potentially does is allow consumers now to engage with the pack and the brand on a different level. So, applying some kind of code where you can scan it on your phone, you can get an augmented reality experience. You can potentially engage in a customer loyalty program which, if you join via this and you engage with each pack every time you buy a pack, you get a benefit. So there's something in it for the consumer. But the branding gets all their data, the demographic information. What the what does this section of the population age group go for?
Speaker 4:So I would imagine you could say we, we have the option to join a loyalty scheme or to get a free product, and then this demographic chose the instant gratification of a free product.
Speaker 4:This demographic chose this.
Speaker 4:So you can start to build your customer profile and then design your packaging for the target markets and I think that's only really possible with digital technology, so that the number of different packs that the, the number of skus that you can then implement there's the potential with that, if you've got the processing power, to almost have every pack be individual in terms of its, its sku, rather than a whole range being a single product.
Speaker 4:So the there's lots of conversation in and around what brands and converters can get out of digital that perhaps we kind of put to the back because we're so focused on telling them how many dots per inch we can print down, how small the drop, how fast we can print, how, uh, how the, the ink and substrate interact and stuff which is all massively important. But we can kind of all do that now. Um, the technology exists, it's there. It's now about promoting to the brands and the converters. Okay, this is the additional benefits that you're going to get from digital that will support your business, increase the value of your business and potentially help it grow, not just trying to do an analog job in a digital manner right, and so thanks for that.
Speaker 2:And so, alan, with your experience in brands and converts. So we're talking about brands and retailers, because they're the ones that potentially going to really want this kind of performance capability um, clearly there's a huge community of converters that typically would do that work. So is it really that the converters have not fully immersed themselves in the potential, are resistant to trying it? It's too disruptive or it's too risky, or, you know, is the I want to say the problem, is the challenge really that converters are perhaps slightly reluctant to adopt yeah, I think you could probably go with a bit of all of the above.
Speaker 3:Um, I think the points you just raised there are, you know, very pertinent and I and I think they're very relevant. Um, and so the point that simon just made about the number of of you know, skus and the number of unique, you know, individual packs, you know I guess as a community we keep focusing on because it's the key driver is we keep focusing on the capability to put a liquid, you know, a colour, onto a piece of material. Okay, ultimately, you know, we know we can do that right, there's a whole range of materials, ink types and all of this. You know all of the components there to create that pack with whatever functional properties we need it to have, whatever functional properties we need it to have. I would suggest that the challenge is potentially the wider. You know technology that supports that physical print. You know, because you know, to get to that print in an efficient manner, you know you're going to have to have, you know, erp solutions, know erp solutions, mis solutions. You know you need to have a graphic supply chain that is not just processing. Job number one, job number two, job number three, job number four all right, you've got the opportunity now to create assignment side. You've almost got this. You know you could almost have unique, you know graphics on each and every pack.
Speaker 3:That then means that you need to be able to process multiple SKUs in multiple, you know, in concurrent and in parallel form. So that then means that you have different technology farms and different technology landscapes. That can and let's not I mean, we haven't touched on it yet, but let's not forget that at the same time that you've got technology change in the print space, you've also got legislative change and compliance change. That means, actually, the pack that you're developing today, you know, within a short space of time, may need to meet new legislative requirements anyway. So you're needing to have this environment that can create this change process within that whole packaging portfolio that not only delivers something that the consumer is looking for, but then actually complies with you know legislation, no matter what part of the world is looking for, but then actually complies with you know legislation, no matter what part of the world you're in. You know you need to be able to deliver against that regulatory change.
Speaker 3:So I would, you know, I would suggest that not only are we talking about you know the capability to deliver printed packaging from a technology point of view, from a technology point of view, but we're also having to manage, you know, that regulatory change which, let's be fair, you know, we've been growing up as an industry over the last 30 years and we've been incrementally getting better at what we're doing.
Speaker 3:Now we're in a very short space of time and you can pick a timeframe, you know. Is it five years, is it 10 years, is it two years? Ultimately, we're needing to change lots of different things all in parallel, all in concurrent form to deliver, you know, a different consumer expectation, but also having that functional property that then has, you know, compliance built into it, whether that's from a, you know, epr perspective, packaging waste directive, you know the whole sustainability debate. There's a lot of change that not only is being imposed on the print community and the brand community, but you know we're then asking it to make decisions in and around a space which you know is new to the party from a print point of view.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's a number of pressures. So I mean, that's one of the sort of you know we're talking around packaging, but I suppose, if we drill it down into talking about FMCG packaging, that's, I guess, fast moving. You're buying individual products, you're buying a number of them, you're shopping, whether it's online or actually in a store, I guess that's the fastest moving area, isn't it? So I would imagine, if you compared I don't know buying, doing your daily shop, where you're shopping for food and you're being influenced, and I think one of the things you've mentioned in terms of younger consumers being far more engaged with the products they're buying and wanting to know more and so on and so forth I know one of the things that lockdown did was it increased shopper promiscuity as well, didn't it so that it?
Speaker 2:broke a lot of that previous sort of loyalty and stuff. So I'm sure the the motivations for a brand in that space or for a retailer in that space is going to be quite different to a, you know, a manufacturer in the corrugated sector or so on, where it isn't perhaps quite as, quite as pressured. So what I'm trying to understand is what? What are the motivations for change, and you've mentioned a few. Could it be quick? Yeah, creativity does that get? Does that get change going? In my experience doesn't.
Speaker 2:It's sort of fantastic to see the creative potential, but that alone doesn't seem to generate huge change. Is it what you've said agility and flexibility, and and with it, that you know the, the chance or the opportunity digital does to solve perhaps some of the problems behind the scenes that we're not even aware of in terms of supply chain? Is it efficiency, which is just basically saving money and being able to produce product? Um, and that's always powerful, isn't it? You know the money? Absolutely, yeah. Or, or, like you said, is it legal and I guess it's probably difficult to apply, that this packaging world has got so many different formats and so many different things? But, um, I guess the frustration I have is is why can't it? Why isn't it creativity for these brands and retailers? And what's stopping that? And I do wonder if it's just resistance to change from the converter community. That just perhaps, just in all fairness to them, maybe it is just too, I don't know, scary or costly or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you've led me into it now, marcus, because you know where this is going. So you know we're all living in this VUCA world, right? Yeah, so there's volatility, right, and uncertainty, yeah, and I think when you're on on, you know when you're sat in that environment. We're sat in this. You know supply chain, and none of us are actually immune to that. Um, you know, if it's the brand, if it's the printer, you know print community, if it's the graphic supply chain, the creative space, what is normal anymore? There is no new, there is no normal.
Speaker 3:And so, you know, brands, any of the supply chain, are needing to make agile decisions. Previously, maybe we were afforded the opportunity to think at large and be able to really drill down into stuff. We're now having to make decisions based on what we know today, what we believe to be the right way forward. In the end, we're having to back a horse because there are so many different variables that are, you know, that are at play. And take, you know, a case in point.
Speaker 3:You know I'm not trying to spoke debate here, but you know, paper versus plastic, right? You know there's a whole bunch of change management that's built inside of that one debate, which then creates instability, but at the same time, because there are so many new, different materials coming out into the market, there is opportunity to be creative and playful and opportunistic from a brand point of view by using those different subst you know substrates, material groups, the messaging that you can build into it as well, I know you know. The other thing that I would, you know, create a message around almost is, you know, yes, we may see Corriga as slightly outside of the FMCG space. However, think about media, think about socials. A big community based around that unboxing experience has led the Corrigat industry into digitally printed Corrigat packaging. You know unique experiences for that consumer who's unboxing, whatever product it is, digital has unlocked some opportunity for those retailers, brands, you know, to create another level of contact and engagement with that consumer who's unboxing his or her next, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Go on, simon.
Speaker 4:Yeah, go on, I was just going to kind of reiterate that I think, because of the shift in our buying habits I mean, alan mentioned people are starting to return to the store, but before, like, the store was the place where you got your message across of what your brand was, what your brand values were. You might have a point of purchase display in a prominent area of a supermarket or whatever retail store. It might be. That's promoting your brand and your values. And in the online space, that's much harder to achieve because you're looking at a flat image on a screen and your purchasing choice is influenced by the graphic, of course. Influenced by the graphic, of course, but it's much harder for the brand to get over their real brand purpose, their message.
Speaker 4:And so the packaging really, and the unboxing experience, as I mentioned, becomes the gateway a little bit between the consumer and the brand, and so having that ability to get your message across we mentioned sustainability and compliance and things like that being able to have your packaging talk to the consumer in terms of okay, this is what our recycle initiatives are, this is how you recycle a pack and have the story embedded within the packaging itself through whatever media, whether it's part of the pack, whether it's a code that you scan that then gives you all of the provenance information about what's in the pack but what to do with the pack.
Speaker 4:I think that starts to build the brand story outside of just the physical retail space and I think that's going to be an important part of how packaging and consumer interaction happens. Across all those parallels, whether it's whether it's the design, the function of the package, the, the message and the, the kind of compliance aspects of it, I think they will all link in in some way in the future yeah, I mean, even I at the um, the age I'm at, but what you're saying there, spot on, it's that the whole sort of influencer marketing thing.
Speaker 2:So you're doing, you're buying a product. I've just bought a guitar, right, and, um, I didn't go into the store. There's nothing worse if I don't like going to 3000 guitars and there's always that awkwardness of picking one up and, like you know, um, so, so I didn't go to the store, but I did it, all my, all my research online and then I did. You know, you go to a couple of influencers and they literally do what you said they unpack it and it comes in a branded box, of course, they unpack it and then they play it and then they give you a review and that's a perfect example of that. Literally, it's an experience, and I selected the exact model I wanted and it's arrived and it's great. But, um, and that's just underlining what you're saying, so that packaging is a reinforcement, but also a um, an opportunity to entertain and and, uh, you know, make people feel good about their purchase. But, like you say, it's been shared online, so it's a another way of of branding and and marketing and so on. So it is an interesting development that's happened, I guess, over the last few years.
Speaker 2:So any other sort of like drivers or changes or um, from brand owner converter point of view, perhaps the converters what converters, let's? Let's be honest, right, they're, they're, they're under pressure, aren't they? Then they're, they're often in the middle of a supply chain. They're the ones that have got to deliver. They're under pressure, aren't they? They're often in the middle of a supply chain. They're the ones that have got to deliver, they're the ones that have got to be mindful of cost and so on, and it's always cost. I always think there's a disconnect as well between the people that converters serve within retailers and brands, because they're kind of assigned to get the cheapest possible print, and the strategic marketers who love the ideas but don't necessarily physically buy the print from the converter. So is that one of the issues, perhaps, that way that interaction structured within the supply chain that they're just not inclined buyers of, are not inclined to ask for digital because it's it's price, isn't it? And delivery?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the challenge you've got there, marcus, and I think you're spot on with what you're saying is that you know, sadly, we've become a commoditized you know, especially in the FMCG by definition it's fast, it's moving, it's a consumer good. However, we've got to a point where that product, as quality-focused as it is and consistency-focused as it is, it is a commodity. When it comes down to the physical printing of the product in volume, it is a commodity. Physical printing of the product in volume is a commodity. And you know, if we go back to the opportunity to create value out of digitally printed packaging because of all the capability it has to connect and consume you know bandwidth of today's consumers. You know I think the brands that are making successes in the digitally printed packaging space are the brands who are or who have gone through that learning process that actually you need to decouple the cost of production with the physically printed product so that you can actually say well, actually do you know what the value that I get because I've developed this digital environment for this particular packaging campaign the value of that physical packaging and the connection I get to the consumer is actually so much more valuable to me as a brand than the physical cost of the production of the packaging in the first place. Um, you know, if you, if you're in this procurement world and literally what you're doing is comparing the physical cost of a thousand units of analog printed products and compare that with, you know, 1,000 units of a digitally printed product, chances are there's two of them aren't going to add up right. You're not going to get parity. But I think, as I said, where the brands are making strides into understanding that they've really, you know, understood the value of getting that pack into the market in three weeks rather than six weeks. You know they're getting into the market quicker, their entry point is quicker, their connection point with the consumer is faster and therefore they're able to gain traction quicker in a market that they're looking to explore or exploit traction quicker in a market that they're looking to explore or exploit.
Speaker 3:Um, I mean, let's, let's be fair. There's a. You know there has to be a reason. You know, and and simon and I keep talking about well, why digital? Yeah, we have to find those reasons. Uh, major on what digital can do and major on the value that gets extracted. And and, honestly, that's quite a difficult debate because it's not always visible on a P&L sheet, right, you know, if you look at well, what are my costs? Today it may be X, but actually the value that you get from the consumer, whether it's through their data, through, you know, increased retention of that consumer or engagement from that consumer, that may not. There's always going to be a lag between the physical production of the product and that data coming back into the business. So you have to, you know, almost trust that you've got, you know, the capability to extract that value.
Speaker 3:Oh and, by the way, we've got this volatility, you know, across the world, which is, you know, fighting you as a brand all day, every day. But you know, that opportunity to connect, I think is, you know, a massive key that we should try and unlock absolutely, simon.
Speaker 2:Do you want to add anything before?
Speaker 4:we kind of like just sort of final thoughts no, I think I think alan covered it really well. I think the the real challenge is in finding that why now? And getting rid of the why not? Question, because I still think that's that's one of our biggest challenges.
Speaker 4:I think most, most brands and converters know that digital can work. They know that it's um technically capable of doing pretty much anything they want it to do, and if it's not, there's all manner of solutions. We all know that the variable data thing is very powerful and something that digital can do very well. And then you see many companies now offering hybrid solutions where they're combining the benefit of digital with the obvious benefits of analog. And at no point are we saying that digital is going to take over from analog in this space, because it won't. It needs to exist as a complementary technology.
Speaker 4:And the challenge with digital has always been, as you mentioned, marcus, the cost argument, particularly in our space. When you look at the cost of a Gravure ink and you look at the cost of a digital ink, they don't necessarily sit on the same plate very well, and so it's about finding those additional value points that really allow brands to grow their market or grow their customer loyalty through the things that digital print can enable them to do on their pack, to get that connection with the consumer. Because I think, especially the the new generations coming through, they want to feel connected to a brand, they want to understand what it, what it stands for, what it means, um, and will be fiercely loyal to a brand that they can engage with. But at the same time you've got a lot of fickle people who will just jump from one to another until they really do find what they're looking for. And I think finding that happy medium of the benefit of digital and finding its kind of profit point or the bit that it makes sense, that it's not just a process but it's bringing value both to the brand and the converter is is is what we're all striving for right and I think for the most part exists.
Speaker 4:If you look at the label space, it's, it's kind of done the, the conversion to digital and label is is huge in comparison to all other kind of packaging-related industries. Corrugated, bizarrely, is probably the next one in terms of its adoption. And then we get into the carton board, the metal decor, the direct-to-shape and the flexible packaging, and all of them have quite compelling reasons to go digital, but perhaps haven't, and it's either they're not well understood or the cost, benefits or the values aren't always fully understood, and I think it's about removing as far as possible the why nots or what digital can't do and really focus on the value it can bring. And why digital is is a technology that can deliver really something that the brands can use to their benefit.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of why instead of why not Exactly and really really simple as that. So obviously we're going to be tackling this a lot in the forthcoming Futureprint Packaging Labels and Directory Shaped Conference in Valencia 2nd and 3rd of April. So perhaps, simon, you could give us a bit of a kind of you know you're going to be attending that. What is it you particularly find valuable at Futureprint events and also what you're expecting to see at Valencia. You were there last year, weren't you?
Speaker 4:So you're joining us again.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because the Valencia event last year was really, really good. It had a fresh audience, a fresh perspective. I think it's great to move it around and the Futureprint has a particular community where there's a sense or a want to collaborate and build on these ideas. We're an ink company, right. We can't make this change happen on our own. We feel like we've got an integral part of the process, but without the hardware, the software, everything it won't deliver what the brand is looking for and, first and foremost, it has to be of a good enough quality for them to accept digital. I believe we're there, but there's still perhaps some gap in perception that's still important to overcome.
Speaker 4:So I think what Futureprint does really well is balances the storytelling and value proposition that digital brings with a technical content that supports those arguments. I think if we all came and talked technically or we all came and talked kind of aspirationally, it's challenging to understand what everyone gets from it. And what I find with Futureprint events is it's very rounded in terms of the diversity of topics, of speakers and of content to really make you think okay, these are all the technical benefits and they're great, but here are also some of the aspirational benefits or reasons why digital can make a difference in these markets and the fact that it's now expanding beyond corrugates and we're looking at packaging as a whole in this event, including direct-to-shape and label and the whole kind of ecosystem of packaging. I think that's important to share success stories and understand labels doing really well. So how can we replicate that situation in other areas? And I think it's an ideal event to have those conversations.
Speaker 2:Brilliant. Well, listen, thanks, gentlemen, for joining us. Great to see you again, alan, joining us. Great to see you again, alan, and also always great to see you, simon, and and have a chat around some of the issues around innovation and digital um printing, development and so on. Um, yeah, thank you for joining us, gentlemen it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1:Thanks, marcus thanks marcus cheers thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content. Coming up and visit futureprinttech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint podcast.
