FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#228 Revolutionizing Print: Delta and Agfa's Innovative Partnership and the Future of Technology
Discover the future of print technology with our fascinating guests, Martin Shipp, COO of Delta, and Matt Brooks from Agfa. Join us as we explore Delta's impressive relocation journey to their cutting-edge Thorley facility, successfully moving 450 staff members with stunning retention success. Martin shares how Delta stands at the forefront of the UK print industry, renowned for their point-of-sale and retail solutions, with a projected turnover of a staggering £130 million. Meanwhile, Matt dives into Agfa's strategic partnership with Delta, spotlighting the groundbreaking installation of the Orca machine, a marvel of engineering that promises to revolutionize Delta's production landscape.
Gain a deeper understanding of how trust and innovation drive successful partnerships in the print industry. We discuss the role of advanced technology investments like the Orca machine in enhancing performance and efficiency, as well as the advantages of a diverse equipment portfolio. Uncover the unique benefits and challenges of adopting aqueous single-pass technology, offering significant environmental and cost-saving advantages over conventional UV printing. Together, we unravel the elements that make Delta and Agfa's collaboration a testament to shared visions and pioneering advancements in print technology.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
Speaker 2:Well, hi there and welcome to this week's Future Print Podcast, and it's a special because I've got two guests with me and I'd like to introduce. Firstly, I'll start with Martin Martin Shipp, who is your cfo of delta. Is that right, martin? No, I'm actually the coo so sorry my cfo will laugh at me being called well, numbers, not, not, not, not a strong point, but he, he should be better than mine. Let's put it that way yeah of course, uh.
Speaker 2:So so, martin, uh of delta and your coo, and we'll find out a bit more about you in a moment. I'll just introduce Matt Brooks. Matt, good to see you from Agfa.
Speaker 3:Hey, fraser, thanks for having me. Thanks, martin, for joining us. Looking forward to the chat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Thank you very much both of you. So so anyone who's listening to this and thinking, right, well, what do we got here? The reason we're talking is because Matt and the Agfa guys have put in place a new machine, the Orca, into Delta's new location, which I think is in, I'm going to say, Harlow, Bishop Stalford, that area, isn't it? Yeah, Bishop.
Speaker 1:Stalford.
Speaker 2:It's between Harlow and Bishop Stalford, a little place called Thorley Brilliant Martin, just between Harlow and Bishopstallford, a little place called Thorley Brilliant Martin. Just fill us in on that. So tell us a bit more about Delta and a little bit about the brand new location. Yeah, sure, so Delta is now 30, I'm going to guess now 35 years old. Co-founder is still with the business, so privately owned. Co-founders still with the business, so privately owned. And in December of 24, we completed the move into the business, one of the main facilities, from Waltham Cross to Bishop's Dalford, and that was a movement of 450 staff. It's a new location. We've obviously got other locations in Henge, biggin, hillham, dublin, um and central london as well, but this is the main production facility.
Speaker 2:I would uh, I would suggest, unless uh, they completed this move mid-december last year and I guess that's like anything, a big move, some teething problems, something's working was, was it? Was it a good experience? Well, what is it? They say that uh, isn't it something like, um, having children, getting divorced or getting married or something, the most stressful times in your life? But they should add moving, moving a business, because that's right up there with it. But um, no, the the heavy metal machinery side of it facility etc. Everything's gone really well. It's just sending people into it now.
Speaker 2:The move was quite successful in that 450 staff was moved. We actually only lost, unfortunately, five members of the staff out of that process. We decided that for them the move was inconvenient enough for them to look for alternative employment. But yeah, so we're glad to say that we've retained the vast majority of the staff in the move. Brilliant and obviously brand-new location. Just put a bit of context in terms of Delta, in positional terms as a printer in the UK, how do you fit? Are you up in the top ten? Are you number two, number three, number one? Where are you? My arrogance is going to have to obviously say that he's number one.
Speaker 2:There's turnovers concerned Turnovers concerned this year, which are projected to do 130 members in the group, and the group is the Delta group and within that we have um delta display, delta creative, odessa print and also um superior. So collectively in that group we should be looking about 130 minimum specialists in point of sale. Yep, yep, uh, a lot of retail work, a lot of film rents, same work, um, a lot of these sort of markets that insist on real speed to market large format printing. Yeah, brilliant, I mean, that's, uh, that's pretty significant. So so, matt, just explain, obviously from your point of view, you've got an, you know, one of your new pieces of kit into the number one martin has just told us in the uk.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So yeah, so tell us a bit about that and how that's working.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you know Delta, perfect partner, really One.
Speaker 3:They've got vast connections in the UK from a support and first go-to-market perspective.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, the fact that Delta have access to many markets, many applications, many materials, their experience in transitioning from analog to digital is what makes them up there as is, is the number one, as martin. Uh, martin suggests um, and you know we, we want to be partnering with the best, so, um, that that was a big decision in this um, but also having somebody, having a partner who has been through this before, you know, we know from our own experiences, um, so it's not their first rodeo when it comes to betas, early adopters and and these types of field trials, and that was imperative in in any success of bringing something like this to market. Um, so we're in, you know, um martin mentioned the move was completed when we put the speed set in there. Initially it was the only new toy in the building and it looked quite small in there at that point. It doesn't anymore, that's for sure. It's a full functional factory with jobs coming to the press as we ramp up to full-scale production.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Martin just mentioned that. You know the broad range of applications but a lot of POP PRS. You know that kind of market. When we think of the speed set of the Orca, we you know it can be used for a number of things, but obviously it can be used for corrugated it's you know. So explain a bit about how you both see this fitting into the delta offering okay, yeah, good question.
Speaker 3:So, um, I mean, from our perspective it's you know, it brings a different, a differential, a differential, a differential sorry, can't get the words out there, that's all right in the sense of water-based technology at high speed single pass. So if you look at again from our perspective of working with Delta in the past and continuing to do so, there's been a real investment in Agfa's portfolio of technology in the wide format space, in the Taro's Onset, previously the Annapurna and now the Speedset. But this is a step change in terms of water-based technology which we believe can help grow Delta's business. It can help grow our understanding of water-based technology. This is also the first time, from our perspective, we're launching such an engine with new technology. Our perspective, we're launching such an engine with new uh technology. Now we've been around in the game of chemistry and chemicals and film and inks for such a long time but really pushing the boundary in terms of water-based tech but also thinking of materials and applications.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, you know the orca has been is positioned towards carton, corrugated paper-based materials. But let's not forget, the actual spec is quite wide in the sense of it can go down to low grammage paper up to corrugated in the microfluid space, as well as covering all the the folding box board, display boards, et cetera, and this was really right in Delta's makeup of material. Martin mentioned the out-of-home advertising posters market, which is a lightweight paper, so that is a perfect opportunity for us to test the application test, the reliability test, the transportation system, all the things that we need from a beta partner, um, so, to sweat the asset in a way, yeah, it gives us a learning and development and and obviously continue developing the product for what might come next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. So, uh, martin, flexibility there, quality, whether those kind of things, the sort of things you're looking for, I guess knocking off really one at a time. Flexibility is one of the key points we were looking at as part of the partnership, and it's not just what the brochure said, sort of the initials, a lot of these conversations about how do we spread this out, because we had plenty of work to fill the scope of work that it was already doing. Um, I think matt will probably sort of admit sometimes we go actually, we want to try this next. It's like, okay, well, so we do like to push the boundaries a little bit. I mean, quite simply, anything from sort of blue back papers like a 115 gram. We've gone up to 700 micron so far, um, and we don't know actually about the future. I mean, it could be a case that we start then knocking on door some of the semi-synthetics, but I mean, we've got so much work which is capable of going on the press right now, uh, we may not quite push it that far because, obviously, um, with wall base, you do need a certain amount of heat to ensure that's drying, um, so it might be something that, uh, we actually reach, um, the edge of the machine's capabilities, but as yet we're away somewhere away from that.
Speaker 2:But, um, variable data as well, yeah, um, that's really, uh, something we do exercise across the business already on other platforms and it was important in today's day and age where you're not doing 10,000 sheets all the same, you're doing lots of smaller orders et cetera. So that speed to market thing that I touched upon earlier on low-make release to streaming data directly into the press, changing the image, is very important. Obviously, that removes a lot of manual handling afterwards and potential errors can be avoided. So all those all point in the right direction for low cost per copy with wall-based inks, low wastage. That's something that we're quite proud about as a Delta is removing such points from waste, because a lot of the time now, as you talk about client base and they always talk about oh, this leaflet, this poster costs X pence, et cetera. Well, actually there's a lot of time now as you talk about client base and they always talk about oh, this, this leaflet, this poster cost x pens, etc. Well, actually there's a lot more savings to be had in the background.
Speaker 2:It's not really about the individual unit price, it's about all the other savings that come with it and how can you can use digital print intelligently to help even silly things like in a in a store environment, actually printing things in the order of walking around a store. I mean, how much time could that save instead of walking up and down sort of deploying stuff, which, as a store colleague, I work in the bakery and I'm walking around the store and I've got something in my hand that actually should be in the customer service area. Okay, that's the other end of the store. If you can print in that sequence, it's those kind of things. We've got massive time savings for the end users, yeah, so logistics as much, and it's kind of supply chain in the way that it's it's it's divvied out. It just makes it a bit easier, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's lots of, lots of aspects there that uh helps the market and it moves away massively from that analog as well. We, we do slab analog in the group. We've, uh, we've actually actually only got a couple of devices left analog-wise within the group, but now the Bishop Stalford plant actually is completely digital. Yeah, and I'm just interested in what you said about the customer because, as you just said, you know, typical customers have a cultural philosophy around what they ask you to deliver. Yeah, so you know. Like you said, speed price, whatever. Do you sense you can change their thinking because of the type of technology you've got here, does that?
Speaker 3:make sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got quite a diverse client range, some of which are very on the forefront of driving um thought change on sort of environmental issues etc. And some of which are actually looking to us to help them go on that journey. Yeah, so it's a mixed bag there really, but I think it's it's all on. It's a lot of people's agenda. It's just how far up the agenda is. So it's an important conversation to be having nowadays, of course. So, matt, I just want to find out a little bit more about um, how important it is to agfa to be working with delta, because what you're doing really is you're able to test out the machine, see its strengths, uh, and kind of work out you know what opportunities look like in the future.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I guess, first and foremost, vitally important to have a partner like Delta who are willing to push the boundary with a beta, early adopter let's not forget this is only the second one that's ever been built, the first one here in Cambridge, which we revealed to the world in 2023, you know.
Speaker 3:And then discussions with Martin and the team at Delta on being that first one Obviously helps.
Speaker 3:It's been in the UK, it helps it the new factories in Bishop Stortford. You know we've been a stone's throw of the office here in Cambridge where all the R&D is based for the project here in Cambridge, where all the R&D is based for the project. But that aside, as I already mentioned, just the fact that we can really test the full specification in the sense of materials, handling, speed, short run, long run, give us the experience from already having single pass equipment in their business, already massively digital adopters. But also not just that, but the sense of what does the future look like, you know. So it's important to have a partner, not just for now, but to be able to grow with. You know, it's like a marriage in a sense, a long-lasting marriage, in that sense that you're invested in the same objective, the same common goals and you can thrash out how you get there and Delta really bring that to the party and that's vitally important for us here with the full launch of the product.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I guess the working relationship as well, the closeness of the relationship.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. So you know that's all built on. Trust that's all built on, you know, those shared visions. Trust that's all built on, um, you know those, those shared visions. Um, the fact that there's a keen interest in water-based technology, keen interest in further pushing single path, um, you know, having that openness, that communication, um, you know, it's not just about speed set either, right, you know, um, as I mentioned, we've had I mean Delta, have had Inca equipment in the past, Agfa equipment. What we like about that is the fact that the broad portfolio and the continuation so I think you know, having had that investment in the past, seeing that the products have worked, uh, work well and and had shown value to the business, uh, is obviously a good foundation for where we are today with the orca yeah, yeah, you want to add sorry, good, you say please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just to add to that. I mean, like, um, the relationship with we've now got back through. Yeah, it actually has accelerated a lot over the last couple of years. I mean from a relationship and machine supplier and ink supplier. They are circa like 50% now of the group's input, so from that side of it, a key supplier to Delta. It was nice actually sort of looking at when we went to the open day and saw the Orca or Speed Set for the first time. Didn't really quite realise at the time actually the level of technology inside that box. I mean I must have been mad. I was still waiting for my blue lights to illuminate it from upwards. They don't seem to be in any boxes I've found so far, so you can just put them on the next van. For us That'd be great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, next day, next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, the wealth of technology in it. This is not our first radio into early adopters. We've lived the pain of other projects before, even sort of way back when I can talk about the Sight uh models we had in years ago which was, uh, the pressure which then got turned into a turbojet, and all that very early adopts digital stuff all the way through to single pass. That we've done recently. Um, but the, the engineering qualities. You lift the hood on the orca is it almost says you lift the hood up so you can hear this singing noise coming through as the lights come on and you see all this technology. It's a really very impressive piece of kit that they've produced here. But we have it says does what it says on the can. We're now in a point of view that's trying to stretch those boundaries now. So if you're looking for bowling, box ball B1, high speed, tick, speed, tick, tick, tick, um, brilliant quality. I mean the quality from what people have seen back at the demo day when the product was released, um, that's, that's been improved upon, not that it was a poor quality of time, but the droplet uh is better. The qa devices on there, uh, for nozzle mapping and for color uniformity and color density. Um, it's bone, it's um, it's quite an incredible piece of quick kit. From that perspective it's good to hear that.
Speaker 2:I, um, I just wondered, you know, as you said yourself, you, you know you've got a lot of kit from a lot of major manufacturers and this is obviously working pretty well. You know, as Matt mentioned, location helps. It just means that you know they're down the road. You've got other kit from people like EFI, the Nozomi's in there. How does it sort of compare with everything else digitally that you've got in Bishop Stortford? It's quite different. What's nice for Bishop Stortfordord? We refer to it being like a campus or a park, because, uh, we've got um four buildings here and they're separated off almost and quite bizarrely, but not in purposes, with efr in a couple of buildings, ag for in a couple of buildings as main um equipment supplies.
Speaker 2:But the, the orca, really does approach them quite differently. When you're looking at how, how many different ways can you get uv income to media, how many different ways can you cure it? Everybody kind of comes to that part in. It's like if you gave a computer the information about building a car, it's going to do a car. They all look very similar and that's where probably uvs were almost got to sort of now, be it multi-pass or or single single pass. But aqueous single pass is quite a different animal.
Speaker 2:It does come with its own set of challenges. But also, if you can, if you can meet those challenges, sort of toe-to-toe, then the rewards from it are great as far as quality, low film weight, environmental perspective, cost per copy, all those kind of things then start coming into play. I think people sometimes look at UV and it's very obvious when something's UV is printed because of the film weight et cetera there. But no, this has now got into our marketplace. It is starting to make, um, some step change difference in there as well. Um, so really looking forward now just to step up. We're only running currently in a five-day pan and I'm gonna matt will probably grimace at this if I could, if I was to see him right now, but I think probably in a couple of weeks' time we'll be going out to two shifts on that device then and we should really start breaking the back of it. Yeah, sounds interesting. Matt, did you want to add anything?
Speaker 3:Well, I've stopped grimacing there, so that's okay.
Speaker 3:But no I, you know, I think, I think that the it has all the levers and the tools to to be able to do that um and that again it's. It's pushing that next step in the sense of full ownership, full production readiness, and I used that a lot in the launch day a couple of years ago with several conferences last year. What we see different here in the sense of where are we in the project? Where are we in the project, where are we with the technology? This is a device that can make that leap into mainstream production in terms of complementing and eventually replacing some of those you know, large volume assets that have been around for a while.
Speaker 3:So it's for me, yes, grimace one thing, but actually it's pleasing to hear that this has the capability to do that, because I think that's also been part of the challenge and the ceiling that we've got to with digital, to a point that can it make that next step into offset, replacement or, you know, complimentary and then replacement, because we did it with screen we, you know we we started doing other devices and it's also now. I think it's, it's almost like it was with screen you know, early noughties where you had a lot of screen players and the flatbeds would come in. The multi-pass was coming in terms of uv technology. A lot of that's been replaced with single pass uv technology, but still you know quite a lot of busyness in the flatbed and hybrid space and now we're able to push on another level, with orca being at the forefront of that, you know, making that leap into a real mainstream, next level mainstream production yeah, yeah, I think that that that makes for quite an exciting next few years, doesn't it really?
Speaker 2:and yeah, yeah, listen, gents, thank you very much for for giving us your time. Um, good to hear that it's going relatively smoothly, but what's interesting is it's kind of it's teaching both sides of it. You know the equation kind of more knowledge, more knowledge about what it can do. So, um, it's quite exciting, isn't it? For both, both sides of the business. So, thank you very much, martin, and thank you, matt, appreciate your time and uh hope to catch up with you soon, both. Thank you, thank you, thanks, fraser.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content. Coming up and visit futureprinttech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint podcast.
