FuturePrint Podcast
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FuturePrint Podcast
#231 A Circular Imperative with Charlotte Neumair, Circular Analytics
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Charlotte Neumair, Team Lead for Circularity at Circular Analytics, joined the FuturePrint Podcast to discuss the evolving role of packaging in sustainability. The conversation explored the increasing regulatory pressures, particularly the EU Packaging and Packaging Waste Regulation (PPWR), which mandates that by 2030, all packaging must be recyclable. Neumair emphasized that businesses need to act now to ensure compliance, avoid market exclusion, and leverage sustainability as a competitive advantage.
She outlined the holistic approach to packaging sustainability, which balances product protection, recyclability, and environmental impact. One of the key challenges in this space is material selection. While glass is highly recyclable, it is also heavy and energy-intensive to produce. Fiber-based alternatives, on the other hand, often require coatings that can impact their recyclability. Innovation in bio-based and recyclable coatings is helping address these challenges.
A significant focus of the discussion was on data-driven decision-making. Neumair introduced Circular Analytics’ "Packaging Cockpit" tool, which helps businesses assess lifecycle impacts and recyclability. She also highlighted global regulatory trends, noting that while Europe is leading the way, some U.S. states are following suit with their own sustainability initiatives.
The conversation concluded with a discussion on the importance of designing for recycling from the early stages of packaging development. Companies must consider material choices, inks, and varnishes at the outset to create truly sustainable solutions. With packaging demand growing, particularly in retail and e-commerce, businesses must prioritize circularity to ensure long-term success in an increasingly sustainability-focused market.
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Welcome to the FuturePrint podcast celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
Speaker 2Well, hi and welcome to this week's FuturePrint podcast. And I have with me Charlotte Neumayer, who is team lead on circularity at Circular Analytics. Have I got all that right, charlotte, fantastic?
Speaker 3I mean a lot of circular but you got it right.
Speaker 2So lots of circularness. So Charlotte's going to be speaking at our event down in Valencia, and so we thought it would be great to catch up with her before that, find out a little bit more about their holistic model for packaging, because I've heard some very good things about it and we think it could be something that would be quite interesting for the audience in Valencia, but also for our listening audience. So I'm going to have a chance to have a chat with her now. So, charlotte, just firstly because it's always nice to know the person tell us a bit about you.
Speaker 3Well, I'm passionate to do so. So I'm Charlotte and, yeah, I'm actually truly passionate about packaging and all this innovation in this field and say, from my background here.
Welcome to FuturePrint
Speaker 3I'm a food scientist and food technologist with a focus on packaging, and my master's led me to my role where I'm now and I'm yet driven about this um, current position I think we all feel and moving forward to a more circular future. Yep, and yeah, my current role as a team leader. As you said, team lead, circularity and circular analytics. I guide our team of consultants to help companies also comply with this transition and develop forward thinking packaging solutions.
Speaker 2Brilliant, and you're based in Vienna. Yes, I am in the heart of. Vienna, yeah, in the heart of Vienna, yeah, in the heart of Vienna. Very beautiful country, beautiful city, beautiful country and Circular Analytics as a business. Just give us a little bit of background there.
Speaker 3So we're a consultancy firm and actually Circle Analytics was founded in 2019 and it's kind of a spinoff from the University of Applied Science, which is also based in Austria, and there we have a department of packaging technology and we're now around 20 experts in our field packaging assessment. So about recyclability assessment, life cycle assessment, but also which I will also present at the conference and the holistic sustainability assessment of packaging, because we believe you cannot, let's say, watch or look at the sustainability of packaging only from one angle. Yeah, and in addition to that especially my team I'm proud to have a set of experts with deep knowledge on the current regulatory landscape. I mean, pwr is only one buzzword in this jungle of regulations.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, we also support companies and comply with all of these requirements and and that that regulatory jungle is something that I think a lot of people it's. It's sometimes sustainability seen as a little bit of a wicked problem, isn't it? It's one of those problems that it's so big, so complex we just kind of try to ignore, and so I guess what would be good to hear today is is things that maybe you shouldn't ignore and things that maybe make it easier to move quicker or to adopt something.
Speaker 3Exactly. I mean, this is where we try to navigate the companies. Okay, what do you really need to do? And when? I mean, we have this big year, 2030, 2030, when everything was going to fall down? Hopefully not, but also before that, a lot of things you need to comply with. And yeah, you're not alone. And therefore we are here to help in this situation and kind of monitor the Green Deal a bit, at least in Europe, but we also, from time to time, look beyond the pond to see bit at least in europe, but we also, from time to time, look beyond the pond to see what is happening in other continents yeah, yeah, yeah, and obviously, uh, that's topical in its own right, isn't it?
Speaker 2with the us in the current situation, um, let's talk more about the, the kind of the model, the holistic model that you talk about, and just try and get my head around it. Try and give us some sort of simplification so that we can understand it. If I was here now as a converter, a packaging converter, or possibly as a manufacturer of packaging product, tell us how you would approach things.
Speaker 3So when you look at packaging packaging, I mean, we have a couple of main functions I think uh, biggest or one of the most important function is product protection. Okay, so without the good, let's uh take this on the side. This is uh one pillar of our model. Then circularity, of course. I mean recyclability, life cycle assessment, all of the things also ahead of our mind another pillar.
Speaker 3And then we have not sustainability but environmental pillar, where we do look at environmental effects of the packaging. As I said, life cycle assessment, assessment, what is the carbon footprint, what's the water footprint of packaging? And therefore we have a lot of parameters we look at on packaging and then you have, yeah, a beautiful mosaic of a lot of, let's say, um figures. And this is what we take.
Speaker 3And first of all, to compare one packaging to another to see okay, are you scoring high in recyclability or in the lifecycle assessment? Because what we also see, there's a lot of conflict. Sometimes you have a perfectly recyclable packaging, but it's extremely heavy. If you think about a glass jar, good recyclability, but on the sustainability aspect, some of them are very heavy and the carbon footprint could be better. Let's say, I mean, there are good solutions out there but in general could be better. So this is what we do in this holistic sustainability model. As we have have seen, yeah, sustainability is not only kind of pinpointed at one figure.
Speaker 2So, if I understand, what you're saying is something like glass has got recyclability because you can use it again, but if you're trying to break it down, it's quite difficult to break down. It takes a lot of energy to break it down. Is that right? Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3I know it takes a lot, true, but it also takes a lot of energy to produce it.
Speaker 2Yeah, right, in the first place, okay.
Speaker 3That is where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2So if we're trying to weigh up the most sustainable approach to a packaging product, to something, to protect a product, how do we go about that?
Speaker 3So what would you look at? Okay, to protect a product, there is mechanical protection right against any. Probably not nice, but pressure or something like that. Yeah, yeah, this is one parameter we look at, but also the non-mechanical protection, if you think about UV light or something you also need to protect your product from that Cold hot. As well as yeah, cold heat et cetera, as well as migration. You don't want some fuzzy things in your product.
Speaker 3So these are all some parameters we can look at. I mean there are a lot of tests you can do. I mean just a simple one for mechanical protections, the box crush test Yep, some of you all know. So these are parameters we look at and then say, okay, what is the figure we have now? Is it above a certain level or below? And we also compare this to the, let's say, sustainability strategy and goals of our clients.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that makes sense, obviously, because different companies have different visions, don't they? Absolutely so let's say, I'm coming to you for some help because I'm trying to understand, uh, which route to take. What's the first process? What's the process you take someone through?
Speaker 3So then we first look at your packaging portfolio. Let's say you have I don't know 2,000 SKUs. And then we look okay, how many packaging do you actually use and what kind of they are? Are they only monomaterial, are they very complex? A lot of layers? Then we break that down and start during our evaluation. So first of all, okay, look, if we talk about product protection, have you done any tests? So then we do first of all, not a quantitative, but first a qualitative assessment of the packaging. Then, when we go into quantity, we calculate the recyclability. We look is there any recycled material in your packaging? What is the packaging efficiency? Do you only transport product or only packaging? And so that's the life cycle assessment.
Speaker 3And then, as I said we look at, okay, when we compare all the packaging, which is the one that's standing out the most Yep, and then we break that down Of course and eventually well, we do have clients where we say, okay, you need to do a lot in this packaging portfolio, first of all to truly become circular, but in the second step step you also need to comply to uh regulatory requirements yeah so.
Speaker 2So let's say um, as you said, circularity, um.
Speaker 3Simplify that for me so that I can understand what that means I know it's a, it's a big word, but when I think about um circularity, a product must be in in its life cycle, the uh, let's say the longer the better. So when I have um, let's say, a packaging, I use it in my use phase.
Speaker 3and then I am as a customer, I just close it off, hopefully in, let's say, the packaging bin, whatever country you are, and then it gets recycled. And I want to push the recyclability already when I think, or my clients think, about designing a packaging, you know that design for recycling approach let's say this seed must be planted right in the beginning yeah, that's a good idea, isn't it?
Speaker 2it's a good idea, it's a good thought that you're saying, and even from the point of view of design. So exactly that's where it starts yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes it sense. So, so actually, the conversation starts with the design of the product, so you should be talking to a designer, the people with the material, the inks maybe, whatever, exactly the choice of inks, of varnish, of material.
Speaker 3This can all influence the recyclability of a packaging as well as the carbon footprint, but also, yeah, really, the choice of how much recycled material I use or not.
Speaker 2Yeah, tell me. So one of the challenges I guess with with packaging, particularly, uh, using carton or card or board or paper based, is they want it to be waterproof. But waterproofing or liquid proofing is really quite difficult without using some sort of plastisoid or plastic kind of chemical oh yeah, I mean um, that's true.
Speaker 3I mean. The challenge here is how can I still um advertise my packaging as fiber-based and plastic free, because it isn't at the moment. You put something, something on that's probably made of any polyolefin or so. It's not plastic-free. This is as well as the single-use plastic directive in the EU sees it Something that is coated to some kind of percentage. Fiber-based is then a single-use plastic product. I mean, that's actually a big challenge, I believe, for the industry.
Speaker 2Charlotte, are you seeing examples of natural waterproofing surfaces or you know using, I don't know, certain I don't know, but I know that there are some companies who are coming out with innovations where they can.
Speaker 3Yes, there are. There are some companies who are coming out with innovations where they yes, there are, I mean a base, um, always called um, I think we all heard of it. Um, a note from the scandinavian countries we do see something made out of seaweed and so on, but I think, and uh, the quantities we need yeah it's not there yet and we have seen it as well. I mean, there's a massive paperization trend ongoing, moving from plastic to paper. But why do we have so much plastic? Because it has fantastic features.
Speaker 1It's good at protecting stuff.
Speaker 3It's light, there's a lot there and getting all of these features from paper, which is a natural resource, obviously that's one big bonus. It's not so easy. As I said, that is why we need to code it in so many ways. But I mean, I think innovation is there, but it's not flourishing full bloom yet.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you as a business? So you mentioned at the beginning. You said, oh, we've got 20 people, so how does each project? If you get someone coming to you and saying, right, this is what we want to do, how do you allocate the responsibility around the team? Do you have one person running the project? Do you have a team of people doing different elements of it?
Meet Charlotte Neumayer
Speaker 3So how does it work? I mean, we have always one project leader and then, depending on, let's say, the subject itself, it will be allocated to our different departments. So, as I said, I'm working in the circularity department, but we do have also a sustainability department focusing on lifecycle assessment of the packaging not only one packaging, but also the entire portfolio, or corporate carbon footprint calculation. This is also what we do, and to get all of these up to speed, we have another, let's say, special feature in our company, we also developed a software called Packaging Cock packaging cockpit where we can do the calculations like recyclability as well as life cycle assessment, just by one click. And the beauty of it. You can also, and you have, a quite good oversee of your packaging data, because this is another thing that is well, let's say, turns from hats in the industry to have the right data to do all of those calculations that will be required by packaging and packaging waste regulation. Recyclability is only one thing, but you need to prove all of that.
Speaker 2Yeah, so you're speaking at our event in Valencia, which is focused on packaging, which is good. So what are you going to share with the audience? What's the story? What are you? Obviously, you know you give us a little taste of what you can do as an organization. So what do you tend to do when you do your presentation?
Speaker 3So I will show the audience first of all. Okay, where are we coming from? What is all about this fast food PPW? Why is it so important to act now, not wait until 2030? Because we do know a lot of those reactions are nah, 2030,. Let's chill, we can do other things right now.
Speaker 2Charlotte on that note. Why would we move now? Why?
Speaker 3Okay, good, but by 2030, you have to be recyclable. What happens if you're not recyclable right now? You will not just be recyclable because the year turned.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 3But you need to buy, eventually, machines even though I mean that's a big investment and you need to look at it and also maybe change suppliers and all of those things that could happen when you want to have a new packaging.
Speaker 2Yeah, so you have to plan for this Absolutely, but would you say there's a commercial advantage as you can see it today, today, not in four years' time, five years' time, six years' time, but today is there a commercial advantage and where is that? What is that?
Speaker 3Let me see. I mean could you specify what you mean with that advantage.
Speaker 2So okay. So the point you made is right. So by 2030, people need to have adjusted, because the date is set and whether we do adjust or we don't, but everyone's aiming for that. But creating circular economies and economies of scale in your businesses surely is good for business, full stop it is. Tell me how.
Speaker 3How we can create them.
Speaker 2Yeah Well, I don't't know. And how are?
Speaker 3they beneficial.
Speaker 2Give me, give me an example of just just say phrase I'm going to give you one little thought to take away with this. That gives the one little thought.
Speaker 3I mean, if you have the circle like well, let's say, we stick to recyclability. If you're not having a recyclable packaging, you cannot put it on a u-market anymore. I mean, this is an advantage.
Speaker 1If you have it, you're just out, if you're not, recyclable, you're just out.
Speaker 3If your plastic packaging doesn't contain a certain amount of recycled content, you're out. I mean, that's actually a big disadvantage. You cannot sell your products anymore on the market. You used to market, you're used to. So I mean, this is one um, let's say not idealistic, but uh, true motivator that you need to do this.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, yeah, I understand. Um, so, to going back to your presentation, you're going to talk a little bit about how to introduce this to people and get them to understand the types of companies you're working with. I mean, obviously you can't necessarily tell us the brand.
Speaker 3No, no, but I do understand.
Speaker 2Yeah, but what kind of companies do you work with? Give us the kind of companies that you're currently working with.
Speaker 3We do work, first of all with a couple of brand owners, but as well, on the other side, let's say with the retailers, but I mean we actually do serve the entire supply chain as we also work with packaging manufacturers and suppliers, because some of at least the regulatory things they also need to comply, all of them with those kind of stuff. But, um, if you think about, okay, packaging assessment, holistic sustainability assessment, sometimes it's only um the label that makes something non-recyclable.
Speaker 3so it might be good to have a recyclable label in the front yeah as well as when you think about um printing right, you can also do a lot of things with how you print, what actually print, which colors and varnishes you use. So, um, yeah, we're happy we have, um, let's say, solutions and options for entire supply chain yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 2So just going a bit bigger here. As you said yourself, you know, particularly in Europe, we're fairly committed nationally and governmentally to making a difference moment. We have a different philosophy over the other side of the Atlantic, so so how do you think we can say to businesses here hey, this is still really important, and it's not just important because it's the government telling you to do it, it's because actually it really makes a difference.
Speaker 3Well, I mean what we have seen the last four years is that, especially in the American region, some of the states were writing forward to, yeah, not to copy, but to follow the lead in terms of sustainability, what we have seen here in Europe. But if you leave out all of the governmental, legal part I mean just last- year we had one of the hottest Septembers we ever seen in the history of, let's say, climate change. So it's hot, we have fires everywhere.
Speaker 3In my country it's hot, we have fires everywhere and my country's weird, also floods, um, as well as in, uh, south america, I mean, in brazil, there were horrible floods, and this is all to do climate change, yep, which is introduced by, let's say, our economy model, which is still so linear, and I personally, myself, I strongly believe with a more circular approach we can change things. I mean, packaging is just one aspect of it, but it is big and we should use it.
Speaker 2Yeah, and interestingly, in terms of the kind of market growth, um, particularly in relationship to print, for example, it's one of the growing markets, it's one of the areas that continues to develop. Packaging it's not. It's not a static market, it's not a dying market, it's not an area that's that's not going anywhere. That retail packaging continues to grow, continues to be quite important. So everything you say is right and it's a you know it kind of. It takes someone like yourself to be telling people. This is the simple way to make it change, to make make the change.
Speaker 3Absolutely yes. Instead, it is growing and we will need it also in the future. We talked a bit about product protection and we still want, in 20, 30 years, to protect our product, and that is why we have packaging in the first place, to protect it, to transport it, also for all our marketing guys to communicate with customers. This is, uh, the beauty of packaging. You can use it in so many ways. Just a simple application yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2Listen, charlotte, it's been great speaking to you, looking forward to, uh, seeing you down in valencia. Yeah, you're on the um, the first day of the packaging conference, and one of the keynote addresses, so we're looking forward to your presentation. Sustainability is certainly going to be coming up and that circular approach to it will be really important, so thank you very much for giving us your time, and if anyone wants to get a hold of you, it's Circular Analytics, isn't it?
Speaker 3Exactly, it's Circular Analytics, based in Vienna, and I'm sure you get my contact details.
Speaker 1Thank you so much. Great to meet you, great to see you.
Speaker 3And also on the Valencia conference, looking forward to seeing you Take care.
Speaker 1Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content. Coming up and visit futureprinttech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint Podcast.
