FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
Ink: The Unsung Hero of Print Innovation
Matt Brooks has recently joined Nazdar. I really enjoyed talking to Matt! In this episode, he takes us on a fascinating journey through the evolution of digital print technology, sharing how a summer job in a printing ink factory unexpectedly launched his 25-year career in chemistry and innovation. From accidentally discovering his passion for ink formulation to pioneering UV inkjet solutions at Seriicol and then Inca Digital, Matt reveals the surprising twists that led him to become a leading voice in print technology.
The conversation explores a critical yet often overlooked aspect of the industry – the importance of ink and materials in print innovation. Matt makes a compelling case for why ink chemistry deserves more attention in the development process, explaining how treating ink formulation as an afterthought leads to compromises and inefficiencies that ultimately slow adoption. His vision for bringing ink developers into the equipment design phase from the beginning offers a compelling perspective on how the industry might accelerate digital transformation.
When discussing the future of digital print in packaging, Matt offers valuable insights into what's needed for broader adoption. Rather than focusing solely on replacing conventional processes, he advocates for a collaborative approach that helps converters see digital as complementary to their existing operations. His suggestion that digital solutions need to target the 5-12,000 unit range to truly penetrate mainstream production challenges conventional thinking about digital's place in the market.
Perhaps most surprisingly, Matt reveals his passion for strongman competitions, drawing fascinating parallels between lifting 400kg weights and advancing print technology. The mental discipline, focus, and resilience required in both pursuits create an unexpected connection between these seemingly disparate worlds. His three-part formula for future success – listening better, practicing patience, and fostering collaboration – reflects wisdom gained from both the gym floor and the innovation lab. Ready to rethink how digital print evolves? This episode offers essential perspectives from someone who's helped shape the industry from the inside out.
Listen on:
Apple Podcast
Google Podcast
Spotify
What is FuturePrint?
FuturePrint is a digital and in person platform and community dedicated to future print technology. Over 15,000 people per month read our articles, listen to our podcasts, view our TV features, click on our e-newsletters and attend our in-person and virtual events.
We hope to see you at one of our future in-person events:
FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
try and remember it. Welcome to the Futureprint podcast. I'm Marcus Timpson and I'm really happy to have with me today Matt Brooks, who is now at Nasdaq. Matt we've known for many, many years, who's been in the industry as an innovator and has had a really interesting and experience and career in developing inkjet. So welcome to the podcast, matt. Thanks, marcus, thanks for having me. Great, great to have you, matt. Like I just said, your intro is that you you have been um in the industry for for a while now and and done. You know many interesting things.
Speaker 2:So, as is kind of customary really, an introduction to yourself and obviously how you got involved in the print industry, what's your backstory, because I think that's a great place to start yeah, sure, I mean, yeah, I think anybody who knows me you know it's uh, it's over 25 years I've been involved in some form or other in terms of technology, uh, development, uh, chemistry, etc. Um, but yeah, I kind of fell into it by chance. Really, you know, I was a, a six-form school leaver, uh, trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life, and I had the ambition to fulfill sports, there'll be a sports editor, journalist and that was a passion I had growing up as a teenager, involved in sport, writing articles, etc. Um, dead set on going to university to study that. Um, but at that time, you know, there were things going on and like there is today and you know, in in in the world, you know government legislation, etc. Etc. So it was a time when, um, university fees were being introduced and you know it's kind of like, right, I need, I'm probably going to need some financial support behind me.
Speaker 2:So I decided to take a year out and, um, yeah, got a summer job in a in a printing ink company in somerset, just not far from where I live with my parents at the time mirage inks and uh, yeah, I had a summer job basically got introduced to chemistry, pigment dispersions, bead mills and all that good fun stuff, um, and actually quite enjoyed it. And I think I was privileged I was, I was paired with a you know a couple of great guys, uh, girls and guys who really knew their stuff, um, and then after the summer there was an opportunity to take on a kind of full-time role, which I was offered, and also the opportunity to study effectively like an apprenticeship sort of you know day release. So that's how I kind of ended up back at university studying chemistry, bearing in mind I hadn't done any science-based A-levels, it was all IT, history, business, economics et cetera, and yeah, so made my way through that for two, three years studying chemistry, working two, three years, uh, studying chemistry, working um. You know, I think I'm thankful for that mirage because I was involved in a, in an inkjet discovery project, if you will, um, it was a dti department, trade of industry, government funded project, um, I was privileged to be able to get involved with that a little bit, um, and, yeah, really enjoyed it and that sort of sparked some interest.
Speaker 2:And then an opportunity came along in the early noughties to join cerical um, which meant relocating across the other side of the country.
Speaker 2:So I joined their kind of cerical imaging team, which was a spin out, you know, investigating inkjet as a chemist, and then kind of just progressed in that technology, chemistry, printing inks, and with joining Cerakol and kind of the full story, if you will, was that kind of working with Inca. So I kind of always a lot of the time I say that I grew up with Inca because Inca and Cerakol partnered at that time. Inca was the chemistry provider sorry, cerakol being the chemistry provider, inca developing the first flatbed wide format printers for graphics, digital and being involved in that was was fantastic, you know, and at the same time continuing my studies, um, you know, and at the same time continuing my studies specializing in color chemistry, and I actually, uh yeah, got a bsc out of leeds university for printing, packaging and graphics. So I kind of took core raw chemistry and then kind of applied it into the printing industry, um, yeah, and that's paved the way for what I'm doing now and the foundation for being involved in various interesting projects for digital.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's an interesting story because, like you said, sort of making the leap from you know, studying in sports, journalism and, like you say, more arty subjects, to then make to do a degree in chemistry. That's a hell of a, isn't it? Um of faith, and and obviously it inspired you, didn't it, working at mirage and um to change direction and then, obviously, moving literally to the other side of the country as well, to seracol. She obviously prepared to take a bit of a risk in a leap of faith to to grow, which is a a positive thing and yeah yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know I'm a great believer in, you know, opportunity and um, and always, you know, never have any regrets. Um, obviously, things maybe sometimes don't work out quite the way you expect them to, you know. So there's always reflection, but for me it's always how you learn from that and then move on.
Speaker 1:So when opportunities like that come along, it's like well, let's take it and see what happens yeah, and then the cerakol led to inca, and inca, as we know, one of the leading pioneers in inkjet development in particular, um wide format initially, wasn't it? Well, so I guess it's UV inkjet, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, yeah, right, yeah, it was UV inkjet, primarily for graphics, for kind of looking at introducing digital printing for the retail, you know, POS point of of display to try and replace screen. Everybody was expecting the market was suggesting that screen printing was in decline. You know, um, but you know, yes, that was there was some element to that, of course. But we still see screen printers today in a small number, but they still have their their role to play, whether it be, uh, specialized inks or whatnot.
Speaker 2:But, um, yeah, so uv inkjet, um, you know there was kind of, uh the shift, environmentally market driven, to move from solvent-based printing to uv, durable printing, uh to, you know, have um no emissions or, you know, low emissions, um, so there was a whole buzz towards uv and it's kind of a bit similar now with the sort of noise and the drive towards water-based technology. We're kind of seeing it. People think water-based new, but actually water-based was still around you even when we were inventing UV technology. It's just that the capability was so much around UV. It was a lot more available in terms of being able to develop UV solutions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant. So obviously the work you did at Seracol then led you to you were studying at the same time and then you moved up to Cambridge basically right with Inca, and Inca was part of the key sort of revolution in wide format. So that must have you must have learned a tremendous amount about change and how an innovation and and how to persuade people to take something new. I mean that that wide format maybe apart from ceramics, but wide format formats probably one of the greatest revolutions for inkjet, wasn't it really?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, totally. And I think um within cerical I had the opportunity to grow, moving kind of from chemistry r&d based uh roles to um technical support, customer facing. So I was getting out into the market, working much more closely with the oems, like inca, in their product development stage. You know, voice of customer, market data, etc. Um, and then you know that opportunity to join inca and bring that chemistry, material science, kind of knowledge plus voice of customer, because inca at the time were reliant heavily on their um, you know, go-to-market partners to bring that data, even though they did, you know a lot of it themselves as well. Um, but that the opportunity to join a company that was a spin-out from ccl and all that uh intelligence, uh vision, that kind of strategic let's go for this, you know was so appealing, the opportunity was too good.
Speaker 2:And again, you know I'm a very loyal person in the sense of a lot of. You know core values are important to me and loyalty is one um and I didn't feel like I was leaving cerical because there was such a at the time, a close relationship and partnering together, collaborating, collaboration in this journey, graphics for wide format, and so it was almost just like moving departments in that sense, um and and, but then stepping it up a gear at Inca, you know um being really involved in the application side of things, product development, product management, uh, and bringing that chemistry experience into Inca was, was a, yeah, it was was a good time, yeah, and, like you say, the chemistry experience and then also the engineering and the creation of products and machinery and so on.
Speaker 1:It's a different, slightly different kettle of fish, but obviously great experience to have. Um, obviously my format was, like I said, one of the archetypal inkjet revolutions, isn't it? How does packaging? Because you know, obviously since then you've, you've, you've become well versed in the packaging industry too how does packaging compare, perhaps, to wide format really, because I know it's a hugely appealing sector, it's absolutely ginormous loads of opportunity. But how does it compare really to wide format in your experience?
Speaker 2:because it's a different subset yeah, um, interesting question, I think. I think actually it's not too dissimilar. There's a lot of, there's a lot of similarities in what opportunities are available, how they're being presented, how they present themselves. Um, I guess, from my personal perspective and being at Inca at the time, we had developed a whole portfolio of wide format solutions, from printing services, printing equipment, to automation, to kind of end-to-end workflow solutions. So there was well, what do we do next? How do we, you know, how do we continue being pioneers in technology, leading development? We want to stay in inkjet. So you know what's next. And I guess the natural progression was single pass. Uh, now, if you think about single pass and that whole opportunity and the market segments and applications that can open, being that the graphics market was kind of quite saturated with multiple installations, I'm happy to say that a large number of them were Inca products, a target, let's change that target market.
Speaker 2:And packaging again, it was a bit like graphics in the late 90s, early noughties, where screen was a dominant technology. Packaging has dominated on a number of technologies Flexo, litho, you know, offset, et cetera, sheet-fed, web-fed, multiple facets of application. So lots of opportunities. And we've seen from the market trend, from the data, web fed, multiple facets of application. So lots of opportunities. And we've seen from the market trend, from the data, et cetera, that the demand is changing as we go for a more sustainable services in packaging, whether it be retail, ready in the supermarket, whether it be beverage or high fashion cosmetics, transportation of white goods, the SKU numbers drop in the number of or the supply chain has really been challenged to shorten lead times, shorten time to market, and digital is really seen as the ultimate solution to be able to complement and then lead that transition, that digital transformation. So being involved in developing inkjet printers was critical, but also the ability from a chemistry, materials and customers perspective.
Speaker 2:I was in a position where I could go out to the market, listen to the converters, the box plant associations, et cetera, and understand. Yes, they have an interest, but why do they have an interest and what is their interest? Surely it's not just about the technology, but how can that technology leverage their business transformation? We've seen it a little bit in graphics as well in the last few years, where you have the influence of print buyers challenging the status quo and what equipment you should use, and we started to see it a little bit in packaging. So I think there I was able to listen to the converters, have the engineering and equipment chemistry, understanding um and be able to develop a system. For me, the key thing was having those converters involved in the product development phase, understanding the specification you know, because could easily go and say, right, we've got this, you know. Single pass sheet fed printer. It's x million dollar. Do you want to buy one?
Speaker 2:you know that that could be an approach, or how about we go, you know, as part of the development phase and understand the pain points, the needs for those packaging, the brands as well, and get their involvement. And then that's what we did, that's what I did and we brought that. So we are starting to see the interest in digital in packaging. I think fundamentally, bringing it back is the needs and the opportunity was more or less similar to screen. You know it's new, sexy technology. There's a demand to move into that, to minimize pain points and you know digital is an obvious solution for that.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and um, like you say, fundamentally it's finding that sweet spot, isn't it? But it's the developments that you've been particularly involved in single pass in the past, right, and, and that that's that's the is that, is that the key kind of process or technology for packaging as well?
Speaker 2:but depends on how you, how you. You know, within packaging there's such a broad number of applications corrugated labels, flexor pack cartons. You know our focus. My focus at time was specifically around folding carton corrugated initially, but you know corrugated was becoming saturated.
Speaker 2:Single pass I think single pass has to be the solution because what we've seen over the last three to five years is there's a number of single pass units being uh, you know, placed in the market, being installed. A lot of them are challenging or there to pick up the mop, up the short run work, the fast turnaround, the reducing quantities, et cetera. But in order for digital to really penetrate packaging, we need quality at speed and single pass, I believe, is the most viable solution. But there are a lot of converters who have got no experience of digital at all. So for me there was always a balance between wide format you know, uv led in printing, director board versus mainstream packaging printing. So there's always an opportunity for both types of technology. But if digital is really going to push the envelope in packaging and really convert, the converters to adopt have to be able to up the speed, and that was, you know, a lot of my involvement with the development. Inca was how can we push production speeds at quality? Uh, you know, to for volume.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that experience doing with Wideform, moving now into packaging, will hold you in great stead, I'm sure. And now obviously you've got an exciting new position at NASDAQ. You've moved to NASDAQ. I've just got keen to hear what you're more about that, really about your new people. What are you going to be focused on at NASDAQ, and tell us a bit about why, nasdaq, etc yeah.
Speaker 2:So primarily it's business development, uh strategy, um, moving the technology that's being developed, but also looking at new technology. So you know, the last uh part of our discussion we had just now was around. You know, do I see single pass as being the solution for packaging? Yes, I think, was pretty much my answer. There are various chemistries available for that to be a success. But the converters and the brands are already asking well, what technology should I invest in? Why should I invest? How is that going to fit into my business?
Speaker 2:And that can be around technology, around application, around material performance. But fundamentally, a lot of that is built on efficiency, operating efficiency, return on investment. Do I have the space? These sorts of things? And linking that to NASDAQ you know there's some great developments in ink chemistry, particularly around high viscosity. You know, can we achieve the same performance of conventional inks UV, water-based for less? So you know, nasdaq, being out there, brought this new technology into the market. So when I look at single pass as being the printing option for packaging, we want smaller footprint, we want less energy, we want more efficient drying, we want a wider application range and the technology that NASDAQ has been developing leverages that in terms of solutions. So my role is really how do we commercialize that? How do we bring that to market in terms of speeding up that, digital adoption and packaging?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's exciting, and I know NASDAQ's obviously got a global footprint, but also a really innovative culture as well, which probably appeals to you, I'd imagine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I think you know you mentioned at the top of this podcast around a, there's always a risk matrix when you make an assessment on something, whether it be project, whether it be personal, etc. And I think, with the technology, that NASDAQ has the global footprint, big company but the agility of being able to respond and be responsive and listen to those customers that need solutions and that was a big appeal here is, you know, being able to do things, uh, efficiently and quickly yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's exciting, isn't it? And um, an obvious question in many ways, but I'm going to ask it regardless. And materials, why are they so important in print innovation? Because we all get excited about the machinery, don't we? And the technology and the flashing lights and the movement. But yeah, why is or is ink sometimes overlooked? I?
Speaker 2:think, uh, yes, I think, short answer, and that's unusual for me to give a short answer, but the short answer is yes, I think it is often because the OEMs are out there, like we did at Inca, and like I did at Inca is, you know, we naturally just made the decision to move to single pass from wide format in terms of equipment, developing the equipment for an industry and but you know, before we went to the market and actually got converters involved, we relied heavily on market data. You know reports my experience there is sometimes those reports are you know they're based on fact, of course, because we wouldn't use them otherwise, but they don't always represent the converter or the brand or the people who are actually going to invest in terms of what are their pain points. And often in my experience, what I've seen over the years is the ink provider, if it's not in-house, if it's not captive within the OEM organisation, is sought afterwards and the machine's already built. So there's a lot of pressure on the partner to provide a certain cost point and provide printer a certain cost price. And, of course, as a, as an ink partner, an ink manufacturing company, you have your own cost base and sometimes that you know it just gets you out. You're out of the game from the get-go.
Speaker 2:And often I think in my experience from chemistry application material, there's always trade-offs with the chemistry. We have to achieve colour or we have to achieve adhesion, but we can't achieve adhesion without having a brittle ink film, these sorts of things. So the idea of having a chemistry provider involved in the design phase shouldn't be abnormal, and then actually having the design intent of the ink as part of the specification, part of the technical specification where you can work your way through. And I think the other thing is it's important to have a fit for purpose specification, as often it's well, the ink needs to do all of these things and we can't move forward unless we get all of those boxes ticked. Well, actually, if you put yourself in the shoes of the converter and the brand, it doesn't need to be all of those. Invariably, if we can hit 85, 90 of those, we can move the project forward. So that's where I think you know chemistry is vital, needs to be more, uh, more up front in the process and then the material as well.
Speaker 2:Again, often it's even the paper comes after the ink. You know, sometimes all the media base comes after the ink. You've got the equipment, the sexy, shiny, you know printers, the ink gets loaded in and then all of a sudden you get, you know, a different media that hasn't been tested before and and it just has to work. You know you don't get away from it. Everybody expects it to work and obviously that then can lead to some pain, some longer development time. So for me, my role here is to bring all that together, you know, collaboratively, bring all the stakeholders together and really understand from a project perspective, and try and cut out all of those things happening after the event, as it were yeah, it makes.
Speaker 1:It makes a lot of sense and it still happens, doesn't it? Still the the ink not enough, quite an afterthought. But uh, you know, I've heard people having to almost sort of innovate after the event, which is really tough, and you're playing and you're playing and you're also making compromises that you shouldn't have to, almost sort of innovate after the event, which is really tough, and you're playing catch up and you're playing and you're also making compromises that you shouldn't have to make.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, just a short sort of draw to my early days at Mirage where we had we were developing inks for flexography processes, you know, and you could effectively turn up a printer. You could mix the ink in the tray. The tray, you know, the analogs roller would do the mixing for you and off you go. Trial's done, it's proven, yes or no. With inkjet you can't really do that, you know. You know, with those piezo heads, whether it be firm or piezo, whatever, you know you have to have to be more in the upfront part of the process.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, absolutely. With that in mind, I guess with digital print for packaging specifically, is it more challenging. You know what needs to happen really for growth to kind of accelerate, because you know we've seen lots of development and and um positive news about corrugated, but there's other subsets you've mentioned folding carton, flexible packaging as well but what? What do you think needs to happen for digital print to grow in packaging?
Speaker 2:uh, well, I think I touched on it earlier. I I think the cost, well, the value proposition, let's put it that way the value proposition to get to the lowest cost per copy is an important piece in the jigsaw. And how do you do that? Well, I'm not saying inks need to be next to nothing in terms of what they cost, but we need equipment to be able to produce volume at scale. And if we can produce volume at scale digitally, we're able to push what has been perceived as short-run taking away the pain points of job changeovers et cetera into mainstream production.
Speaker 2:And if we can leverage digital printing as the optimal solution for mainstream production, I'm not talking about the 15,000, 20,000 sheet jobs, like your regular brands, but I'm talking about that kind of 5,000 to 10,000, 5,000 to 12,000. Like your regular brands, but I'm talking about that kind of five to ten thousand, five to twelve thousand. Everybody has, you know, as an industry, we, when we talk about short runs, we talk about kind of one to three thousand, and then it's offset or conventional analog processes. What if we are actually in the three to seven or the five to twelve thousand? That's where I think we need to be focusing here now is to push those digital solutions in that space to to get into mainstream production. Then if we're producing at scale, you know naturally the economies of scale will work themselves out.
Speaker 2:But if suddenly we're able to produce you know, printing uh, folding carton, corrugated in the space that the converters need, with a minimal amount of pain, that will drive the whole COV space down anyway, naturally Suddenly we're able to produce ink at volume, we're able to supply in volume and if we can do that the attraction, the appeal becomes a lot more, you know well, a lot more attractive. But I think also is is the technology has to continue, has evolved greatly. You know we got printheads that can do things we weren't able to do before. I talked about the technology that nasdaq has developed here. I think again we can leverage that chemistry and that material interaction in terms of can I achieve my pantone color targets for the brand with minimal amount of ink at the lowest cost base but the best value proposition? We can get those three verticals, then I think we can crack it yeah, it's a sweet spot, isn't it?
Speaker 1:and I guess I was wondering if you know, obviously, cost at the end of the day and efficiency is probably the biggest drivers to change, isn't it when? When it's financially compelling, um, but equally, I wonder as well, with packaging, comparing to wide format, it's a different kind of community, isn't it? Um? Bigger companies, larger production, more at risk of disrupting that maybe I, and different, you know, smaller businesses, the screen printers, so switching. So there is also that at play. It's not comparable really, is it? I mean like it's comparable in some ways, but actually tougher to to break through, I would imagine yeah, I think so.
Speaker 2:I I fully agree. I think the the agility of digital and the ability we potentially have is you can develop systems that that can really improve the overall operational efficiency. So instead of thinking about, okay, we're going to put a digital device in to replace this offset line or this flexo line, why don't we think of it as how many offset lines can we replace with this solution? So that's where the chemistry and the material comes in. Because from what I saw in my experience was often with this solution, so that's where the chemistry and the material comes in. Because, you know, from what I saw in my experience was often there are, there are, often there's a fleet of equipment for certain thicknesses of board, certain coatings of board or whether it needs, you know, an over varnish or a pre-treatment, these sorts of things, plus plus the workflow.
Speaker 2:And I think developing a solution that can slot in and complement initially is, rather than let's go in and replace, let's collaborate and complement, and then that can really change it up a little bit in the sense of where we can prove the technology. If we can prove the technology across multiple applications, then certainly those larger companies, those larger organizations, often international based companies, not just regional based, see that they can connect their operations, you know, across a digital footprint. And that's not just about the printer, then it's about the whole ecosystem the material, the inks, the software, the services, et cetera. You know, considering, for example, moving from reactive maintenance to predictive. Digital allows you to do that.
Speaker 1:It's more of a strategic, holistic way of um operating with automation and all the other digitalization or trends that are happening, that are needed, aren't they for manufacturers to respond?
Speaker 2:absolutely yeah, and my last point on that really would be about education. So business transformation instead of right, we've got equipment we want to sell because we want to get digital into packaging. So again, it's about listening and collaborating with those converters and those brands to say, actually, your business is going through a digital transformation, so it's not just about the printing part of it, it's working as a partner to provide that ultimate solution yeah, interesting stuff, and we're going to shift topic a bit here, but this is going to connect with um.
Speaker 1:If people know you've seen your talks and that they'll have learned that you do what's called strongman training, don't you? I do, and so I was interested in hearing a bit more about that, matt, because that's uh an interesting I'm sure there's some parallels with with your work as well, so tell us about that. What does it mean to you and how does it connect with work?
Speaker 2:yeah um so I always also find it's quite interesting as an icebreaker. If you don't know people, you know you sort of like to give a fun fact about yourself and, um, you know something interesting. And and I don't know people you know you sort of like to give a fun fact about yourself and you know something interesting, and I don't think anybody's yet predicted that that is what I would say. You know that actually, I compete in strongman competitions or I'm training to potentially be the world's strongest man, even though I have that kind of viking nordic look about me sometimes. So, um, but yeah, again, a bit like my career, I kind of fell into it. You know I've been involved in sports rugby, football, etc. Uh, team sports, uh, been going to the gym fairly regularly for a number of years, um, and yeah, just happened to be, you know, doing a bench press one day with my trainer, um, and he kind of just said to me have you considered a strongman or powerlifting? Uh, no, I'm too old for that sort of thing. Um, and then, yeah, kind of, uh, I actually thought, well, why not, let's give it a go again. You, you know that's my a lot of my approach for a lot of things I do is why not? Let's try it. No harm in giving anything a go once, and you know from that I got such a buzz from it and I was actually quite good at it. So you know it's also a benefit. It's a good natural strength.
Speaker 2:But what I learned from it and what it's taught me or helped me in both professional and personal life is around focus, is around really narrowing down the goals and the objectives, because I think naturally there's so much opportunity in life, both professionally and personally. Sometimes you don't know what to go for first or you prioritize and all that sort of stuff. So you know, with the Strongman there's a number of competitions that I could enter at various levels of strength, lots of competition events to go after. You know, usually 10, 12, 15 or something. Anybody who's watched Strongman on the telly growing up or still these days, you'll see there's a mix up of events. But when it comes to a competition itself, there's a much narrower set of events. So you kind of start with this huge hopper where lots of things are being poured into it and then you kind of narrow down the focus on four or five key events. And that for me is is a similar parallel in my professional career is you know, there's lots of opportunities in packaging for digital, for example.
Speaker 2:But what do we focus on as a clear objective to go for and and to get there in the in the quickest, most effective way. It's the same in strongman. You know how do I get to the end of that line, carrying those 200 kilo piece of the metal in each hand in the fastest, most effective time? Well, I have to focus, I have to train, I have to, you know, get in the zone and that's. That's a very similar approach here.
Speaker 2:It's, um, you know, and the kind of mental strength. You get knocked back, you get back up, you go again, you know, you learn, you, you don learn. You can't always lift the heaviest weight or you can't always achieve that customer you really want. So you have to understand that kind of reflection. But learning, move on, improve with focus. And I think the other part of it is within the strongman community. It's a very collaborative community. There's a lot of camaraderie. Obviously, people are competitive, but it's a very friendly, kind, camaraderie approach and everybody listens to each other. You help each other to improve and get better. And again, I've always thought I was somebody who listened fairly well, um, and understand to, to try and understand, not to necessarily respond, um, and that again, is a similar thing here is is really building on those skills, um, and above all else it's, you know, it's a bit of fun, you know, being able to lift up uh equipment here and there if we can't get the riggers in time, or whatever.
Speaker 1:So it comes in handy, I'm sure. What are your specific? Like you said, there's categories, so what? What do you specialize in or focus on within strongman, then? Is it a certain?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean it kind of lends from, I guess, favorite events that I've I've been, I've been pretty pretty good at. Um, I mean, I don't actually like the atlas stones and I think if anybody thinks a strongman, they immediately think of the atlas stones and the podiums etc. Um, I'm not, that's not actually one of my specialist topics or events. Uh, two in particular. I think one is the uh, the yoke frame, which is effectively a metal frame. You put on your across your lateral, your laps, across your back, and then you load it up with weight, um, and typically the event, you, you have a set distance 15, 20, 25 meters and you have to carry that weight. That's the the event in the fastest time. So I think I've been around 380, 400 kilos or so give or take on my back. I really love that. That gives me an ultimate buzz.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, my other favourite is probably the farmer's carries, which is effectively people who are in the gym could probably imagine having kettlebells in each hand and you walk down the sled track. It's a bit like that, but you have bit meteor, uh, either rocks or or metal frames in your hands. Again, typically 100, 110 kilos in each hand, uh, over four speed over distance. So I love. And then my last one. Could I have a top three is the log press, the ability to lift 110 kilos over your head, four reps in 60 seconds.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that just trying to work out the maths in terms of all of the yeah, significant amount of weight there. And, like you say, you have a good natural basis strength, but then the training I'm sure evolves and and, and that's a a great parallel with with your work as well, isn't it? I can see how that complements and helps.
Speaker 2:um yeah, yeah yeah, brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 1:So just just finally, now, thanks, thanks for that. You know, looking ahead in the future, like we live in a very sort of unpredictable, volatile world at the moment it sort of seems to be unpredictable, difficult to know what's happening next. What's your view of the future, brink Joe?
Speaker 2:That's a good summing up question, marcus. Yeah, I think we can build on the success of the last 20, 25 years, for sure. I think there are three key areas that we should be more focused on and I think that can accelerate. I think Inkjet has a definite positive future. It will penetrate some of these markets that we've been targeting, like packaging, for sure, specifically in segments of in-packaging.
Speaker 2:The three things for me are listening, patience and collaboration. Screen printing is still happening in niche areas for certain segments. Offset flexo will still happen in certain segments, but the ability for digital to penetrate is coming, will come. But we just need to have that little bit more patience and really understand the process, understand the pain points, listen better, as I said, listen with the view of understanding, not necessary to solve and answer and respond and then collaborate. You know, why shouldn't the oems collaborate with other oems? Why can't the inc partners collaborate? Uh, more better to to push that, push that envelope? Uh, you know, push that boundary a bit bit further, um, but you know, I think it's here here to stay now. Uh, no, no doubt about that. Um. And uh, yeah, I think you know it's um, still still enough, uh, enough in in the excitement and the technology advancements for a good few years yet yeah, yeah, brilliant.
Speaker 1:I love that listen. I mean, you think the world is just so noisy, isn't it it's all about? It's all about who can shout loudest or most consistently, or on these different platforms, and that it's just that we are just bombarded, aren't we? So the idea of actually listening is is is a brilliant one. Um, patience also is an interesting one, because we are need it now, need it now, we're impatient, we want it, we're access to stuff, patience and understanding incredibly important, as you say, and not even to necessarily then use that immediately as a come back to trying to close something. But actually, patience is uh, I know it's an unfashionable one in some respects, but actually makes a lot, huge amount of sense because you, I would imagine, you come back. You come back with a better answer and a better solution and, finally, collaboration gets stuff done quicker, doesn't it? We're in competition, which which is fine, and we live in a competitive world, but collaboration as well, sometimes, yeah yeah, I don't think it should be so alien to us, like you said.
Speaker 2:But you know there's always going to be competition, but, you know, understanding that, and I think the patience thing is everything is more so accessible. Today, you know, you can get stuff the same day, next day, you know. So we, we, you know, even for us who are a little bit older and not necessarily uh, yeah, you know, but we, we are, we've adapted and and perhaps become a little bit impatient. So just that ability to be more patient and listen well, thanks so much, matt.
Speaker 1:It's been wonderful talking with you, um excited for you your next um chapter of your career and that, and you know, I'm looking forward to seeing how that develops. And um, thanks so much for joining us today thanks very much, marcus.
Speaker 2:I really appreciate the time. Good to chat with you again, as always, and uh, yeah, look forward to seeing you, uh in in an event somewhere soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you very much.
