FuturePrint Podcast
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FuturePrint Podcast
#268 Counting Carbon: How CarbonQuota is Inspiring Print to Change for Good
The printing industry stands at a critical environmental crossroads, with both opportunities and challenges ahead. In this illuminating conversation, Dominic Harris, CEO of CarbonQuota, returns to the FuturePrint Podcast to reveal how carbon measurement is fundamentally transforming the print and packaging sectors.
With over three decades in print, Harris brings both deep industry knowledge and a pragmatic sustainability perspective. He explains why accurate carbon footprinting is no longer optional—driven not only by looming legislation in the EU, North America, and beyond, but also by brand-led procurement policies from companies like Lego, Ikea, and Amazon.
Harris demystifies the complexity of CO₂e calculations, showing how every stage—materials, energy use, production processes, and logistics—affects a product’s impact. He warns that relying on averages can create errors of up to 60%, undermining credibility and potentially leading to accusations of greenwashing.
The conversation explores how automation and integration with MIS/ERP platforms are making product-level carbon reporting faster, cheaper, and more accurate—freeing up resources and helping printers win business in an increasingly sustainability-focused marketplace. Harris stresses that collaboration across the supply chain is essential, with low-carbon materials, greener transport, and technology partnerships accelerating change.
The episode also highlights CarbonQuota’s role as a founding partner of the Manifesto for More Sustainable Print, a practical framework designed to help printers take their first steps towards decarbonisation without unnecessary complexity.
Whether you’re running a large print group or a small independent shop, Harris’s advice is clear: start measuring now, secure leadership buy-in, and position your business to meet growing demands from both regulators and customers.
A must-listen for anyone in print or packaging who wants to understand where the industry is heading—and how to stay ahead.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
welcome to the latest episode of future print podcast. I like to have back actually because we have talked before on the future podcast with um, the ceo of carbon quota, dominic harris.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the future print podcast, dominic marcus, nice to see you again, really nice to see you. Great.
Speaker 1:You know, chat, I'm looking forward to the next 30 minutes fantastic and um excited also because I know carbon quota is growing, doing great things. You're in a um, a real sweet spot, I think, as a business and doing great work for the industry and that. So we'll find out a lot more about that as we go through the um conversation. Absolutely, what I'm always keen on doing is because you, you know, at the end of the day, business is business but it's personal, isn't it? And I kind of like to know a bit and I think our listeners do a bit about who we're talking to, the background and your sort of origins in your career. What motivates you yeah, so if you could just give us a bit of context about your background, what led you yeah, of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I, like to me, I think it seemed that everybody focuses a lot on, you know, the business side of things, but it's always interesting to understand why, why, you know, people end up where they end up, especially in the career of the printing industry, because it's such an interesting industry, right? So, yeah, no, I, um, I, I started my career when I was 16 in the printing industry a long time ago, marcus, to say the least and it was before Apple Macintoshes were invented. I knew I was a traditional camera operator and lithographic planner, so that's going back many years. So, yeah, I've been in the industry the whole of my career and I guess that's really the industry the whole of my career. And I guess that's really the motivation, for one of the motivations for doing what I do today, um, is that I'm just so passionate about the industry. I, I love the industry because I have been in the industry for the whole of my career, you know, for many, many, many, many, many years. So, and it is something that I believe the industry can do a lot more.
Speaker 2:And if I look at what we do at Carbon Quota, the whole principle was when we set out five years ago was to help the industry do more, and that's ultimately. You know, our kind of mantra is how do we improve the environmental impact of a piece of print or piece of packaging? Um, and ultimately pay. And it's really interesting is that and people often hate me for saying this, right, but I will say it is that what we make is bad for the environment. Okay, if we didn't make it, that would be better for the environment. Right is, and it's really simple. So if you don't make it, you don't have an environmental impact. But but ultimately, what, what we as the print industry make, is product that is absolutely critical to society. So the way to make it is in have the least environmental impact, and that you know. We'll will come on some other points a bit later on, I'm sure, but ultimately that's the motivation and and and it's us, you're helping the industry the best we can, marcus yeah, brilliant and and um.
Speaker 1:So that's the key problem you're aiming to solve really is to provide a solution that improves performance of the industry regarding sustainability.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it comes down to you know, there's a saying, marcus, right, and it's so cliche and I apologize to the listeners for this right but how can you improve something that you're not measuring? Okay, and that is so true, especially in the world of carbon. How can you say you've improved your carbon footprint if you're not measuring it properly? Okay so, and ultimately, the industry does. You know, as a whole, the industry is moving and it's doing it, but there are many, many businesses that don't do anything. So how can they ever demonstrate they're improving their carbon footprint if they're not doing the basic task of measuring it initially?
Speaker 1:that's what it comes down to yeah, yeah, yeah and and I guess that principle is core to carbon quater, but how, how does it work? So I mean, you know carbon quater, you make it easier, do you, for people to understand what their current performance is and how they might improve what?
Speaker 2:give us a bit of a more of an explanation, really, yeah, sure, so, um yeah markets is complex, right, carbon is a complex subject and if it was an easy subject, I wouldn't have a business employing 20 old people. Right, it was easy, anybody could do it you, we wouldn't exist. So it is a complex subject. But ultimately, if you look at what co2e is, okay, that's, that's. That's the technical term of a carbon footprint. So we often hear phrases in the marketplace carbon footprint, carbon you know all sorts of phrases. But ultimately, if you picked up a brown box from amazon, that box has a carbon footprint. Okay, and what that carbon footprint looks like is something along the lines of 27 grams of co2e. I'm making that up, I'm making the number up. I don't know what it is, okay. So, but that 27 grams of CO2e is a mathematical equation that has scientifically measured the raw materials.
Speaker 2:So what type of corrugated has been used? It's scientifically measured. What machine it was produced on, converted on, and for how long was it on the machine. And therefore, what type of electricity is that factory using? Is it solar powered or not solar powered, and so on and so forth. It also measures how it's moved. So how, how did the raw material arrive at the printers and how was it delivered to the customer. That journey has quite a big impact because that's vehicles on the road that are probably diesel powered, so it has an impact from an environmental point of view. Um and and, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:So when you're looking at a very simple cardboard box, the cardboard box has a co2e number. Okay, that number is made up as many constituent parts as possible. We go very deep on that number, very deep indeed, very accurate. That, to me, is the best way to describe in. To answer your question, marcus, is think of a cardboard box delivered through your door from Amazon. That happens every day, as I'm sure it does with you, it does with me Every single day. Ding, dong, something else arrives. Everything has a carbon impact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense, and it's the journey, isn't it? And the creation of a product through to the journey it takes to reach the consumer, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And ultimately, if we stick on the Amazon analogy, because I'm sure every listener will be able to relate to it, it is about the product that's inside the box as well, right? So if you're ordering a new bunch of ink toner for your printer at home, you know that product also has a carbon impact. But we don't get involved too much in that type of work. We stick with packaging and um, print printing.
Speaker 2:Packagings are, you know, is our, is our swim lane, as I like to say, and it's really important that we do the best we can for our industry, because a piece of packaging or a piece of print is the first thing that a consumer touches, right? So if you walk into a supermarket and you pick up something off the shelf, that piece of packaging is the first thing that they see. Not, not, not the bread inside or the you know the wine inside the bottle or the coke, whatever it might be. That's the first thing, and there is a lot of law, there's legislation coming. The big brands around you know that are buying this packaging or print material. I've got a lot of focus on it. So our, our industry, that we service the, you know the supply chain, their services those big brands has to has to support the brand right. It has to do it because it's such an important subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an important point actually. So that brand pressure, brand expectations. There's also legislation as well. Where do you see the biggest opportunities perhaps and risks for in terms of sustainability over the next five years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, great question. It's never a moving face. First of all, if you look at legislation, the first thing that is important to convey really is that it moves and changes all of the time. So if you look at the EU which, by the way, we're not a part of, just to remind everybody, we're not part of the eu, but we, we trade internationally. So we look at this international landscape, not just the uk and you know the eu had a couple of false starts on some carbon related legislation, and that there are one.
Speaker 2:There are pieces of legislation coming, there are things coming, but probably not until 2027. Now the problem with what I just said is this okay, in 2027 there will maybe a piece of law launched by the eu government that says you've got to disclose your carbon footprint, but what that will say is you've got to disclose it for the previous year. Okay, which is 2026. Right, because there's always a retrospective law generally is retrospective reporting. So if you think they launch a law in 2027, all the printers are going to go right, I've got to now disclose for 2026. A 2026 is 90 days away. So people that haven't got a process, haven't got a mechanism in place. There's a big problem coming and I can see that as the major risk that, as these laws mature, that retrospective reporting principle is going to catch lots and lots of printers out, especially the bigger firms, it has to be said. It will have less of an impact on printers out, especially the bigger firms, it has to be said. It will have less of an impact on SMEs, but the bigger businesses have to get their act together because those laws are coming.
Speaker 2:And, interestingly enough, marcus, just on this point, I can tell you a reasonably funny story. I was in Texas the beginning of the year and I presented to about 15 CEOs of big packaging companies in America and some of them stood up and said well, climate change is an urban myth, it doesn't exist, it's something made up. And the rest of them clearly didn't right. So there's this perception that a marketplace like the us is not focused on on climate change. However, even this morning and I have to call this morning my team there's a law that's coming out next year in that covers california. So if you produce any piece of packaging that hits the california market, yeah, you've got to report the carbon footprint, okay, so whilst you have this perception that the you know, you know countries like america are behind from a an environmental maturity point of view. That is absolutely not true. They're overtaking the eu right now. They um you know, a country like canada is very, very, very advanced when it comes to carbon reporting. We know the scandinavian countries are advanced because they always have been so. Actually, we've seen this kind of groundswell of legislation coming, and the next year is the year when it's going to explode and lots of people and businesses need to get ready for it, right, ultimately. So that covers the legislation question, hopefully, marcus.
Speaker 2:I think more important than legislation is customer pressure, because and that could be one of the same things if you look at somebody like I'll tell you an example if you look at lego as an example, lego produced enormous amount of packaging, enormous amount of print, loads of retail points of sale. They actually demand that every anybody who prints a product for lego they have to that printer has to provide a certified carbon footprint to Lego on every single order, so on every single purchase order. That's Lego's policy. Now. That's their policy with their print supply chain and it's part of if you want to be a supplier to Lego, you have to do this and you know it helps us. We know this because we work with lots of suppliers that work with Lego.
Speaker 2:But that's just one example. There are many, many, many, many other examples. And whilst that's not directly linked to legislation, that actually is a business who knows legislation's coming and a business that fundamentally marcus, yeah wants to do the right. You know, you know, do right for the planet, right, you know, lego a particularly green business. So, so, and actually you're seeing more and more of them. If you look at estee lauder, look at l'oreal, look at amazon, look at ikea, all those businesses in the same, they're in the same group. Right, they all want to do the right thing, you know, for the environment, and carbon is the center point of that yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's pretty powerful stuff and the obviously, the notion being that if you're in, if you're a supplier to any of these businesses, you will need to provide that information or you won't potentially be able to work with them.
Speaker 2:Simply certainly lego. That is the case for lego. I'm I'm not so familiar with the other brands I mentioned, but certainly that is the case for if you want to work'm not so familiar with the other brands I mentioned, but certainly that is the case for if you want to work for lego. But that's just one of many businesses, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:yeah, no, exactly. There's always been a tension, hasn't there, between cost and sustainability, isn't there? So we've seen that. If you want to, you know people that buy print traditionally have always been very focused on price and therefore the best price wins. Sometimes the best price is not the sustainable, often is not the sustainable option. How do you approach that in terms of balancing sustainability with commercial realities in the print supply chain? I'm not sure that's right now, Marcus. Is that perception not right then?
Speaker 2:No see, I don't think it is.
Speaker 2:And if you look at the biggest environmental impact of a piece of print, if you look at any piece of packaging or a poster or a book, whatever it might be, it's actually the raw materials has the biggest environment.
Speaker 2:You know, it's about 50 or 60% of the carbon footprint of a book. Is the raw material Same as a poster, the same as all sorts of other stuff? It's about like 50, so I think 10 years ago, if you specified a fully recycled sheet, the argument you made is true, right, but I think the price point yes, there is some changes, of course, but that price point is a lot closer. So it may or may not have a commercial impact to have a fully recycled sheet, but going to vary from all sorts of products. But I think most businesses today will be offering the right raw material okay, that you know that's obviously recycled or has some recycled content. They'll be doing that today and I don't think it has a commercial impact on their customers and they may not even be telling their customers they're doing it right. Okay, now I'm being very general because we're talking about a very complex supply chain here, right.
Speaker 2:I think that the thing that does cost more is energy. Right, and this is the bit that needs to change just generally in society that if you want to put, if you want to buy green energy from the grid, it does cost more money than what's called brown energy. You know, energy becomes some cold and other other sources. It does cost more money. So in that example I completely agree it costs more money. But then you flip that kind of argument and go right, put solar on the roof. Yeah, and you know, even in our personal lives, if we all consider putting solar on our roofs at home, there is a way of doing it. It doesn't actually cost. If I did in my house, I don't think it will cost anything. Yeah, because I can resell some of the energy back to the grid, et cetera, et cetera. And that's the same in a commercial environment, right. If you've got the right type of buildings really important, yeah and you've got a space for solar and you're facing the right direction, all those things solar is a good plan. It's a really good plan. And solar has a zero carbon footprint right.
Speaker 2:And if you then take a step back and think about those two examples, solar will save money. The right pay-per-choice is marginal now. It might be a little bit more expensive in some examples, it might be a little bit less in other examples, but if you look at those two examples, that is about about 75 of the carbon footprint. Energy is 50 and 25 of the carbon footprint of a typical print job and material is about 50, so I'm getting 75. So those two initiatives alone don't have a commercial impact. They may deliver a saving, okay. So, um yeah, I don't think it does now. I think in general terms, the balance has shifted and there's marginal difference now by offering a sustainable product to a customer all right.
Speaker 1:That's good news, positive, partly due to inflation and and um, development of of materials and knowledge and um and availability as well as an accessibility, I think, on that innovation theme really, and trends, perhaps you obviously you mentioned you work across multiple sectors, so packaging and printing as well. Any innovations you're seeing, perhaps in materials, energy use, process optimization that maybe would be transformative for a print business or a print production business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we actually do a lot in the kind of logistics world actually, which is clearly a key part of, you know, printing, packaging, moving the goods around the logistics side. And we see some really cool stuff with pallets. Yeah, how you know pallets that are, you know, have 100 closed loop, for example, it's a really it's a really neat solutions pallets that are fiber-based rather than made out of a, um, you know, some sort of heat-treated wood, um, that's a really cool set of initiatives and, and it is interesting, it has a good environmental saving right, if you use the same palette, you can use it 30 times rather than use 30 palettes once. Only you, even me describing like that, marcus, you can kind of see the impact it has. So we see that only from the logistics sector, um, I think from a trend, industry trends, that we see a we trade globally, right, and we trade with, you know, businesses. So the print marketplace is different around the world. In america it's different, you know. You know tower is in europe they use inches and pounds, right. I mean just to confuse the world slightly, marcus, they're still using inches and pounds, right, but but we, what we see, the biggest trend we've seen is, if you look at carbon measurement, 10 years ago everybody was talking about measuring the carbon footprint of their building. Okay, and that's. Most businesses have done that. If they haven't, blimey, they're a long way behind the curve. But ultimately, a printer 10 years ago started the journey of measuring the carbon impact of their building and that's called scope one, two or maybe scope one, two and three, depending on how detailed they go. But that's 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:Today, what the trend we're seeing is and I'm hearing it from big businesses is they want the product carbon footprint. So in the use case of you know, let's use Amazon again as an example Amazon want to buy a million corrugated boxes. They want to know the precise carbon footprint of a million corrugated boxes. Yes, it relates back to the building's carbon footprint, but it's a different data structure. So now that trend has certainly in the past 12 months got a lot faster. I mean, we're seeing more and more businesses focus on the product carbon footprint.
Speaker 2:And the reason amazon and back on that use case again amazon wanted is if I'm a print buyer at amazon and I'm buying those million boxes and I could choose to go to four different suppliers, okay, what they want to know is what's the price for each of those suppliers and also what is the carbon footprint for that one order I'm about to place with you. So amazon should I'm not saying they do and they always will, but amazon should when they get the four bids back from their four suppliers, yeah, they should sit there and the print buyer should go which. Which supplier am I going to choose? Am I going to choose the one with the lowest carbon footprint or the one with the lowest price? Okay, that is the trend that is going nuts right now.
Speaker 2:Okay, the buyers are wanting that data. It's quite complex, right to do, but you know, and it all comes from how you know, printers run what MIS. They run all sorts of questions, right, but ultimately, that use case of the print bar, amazon has got four quotes. He's choosing which supplier to use. Does he choose on price or does he choose on carbon or does he choose on both?
Speaker 1:that's always the big question, yeah, so that's the biggest trend we see but the power of that measurement is is quite significant, by the sounds of it, right, and and it's a compelling factor in the purchase, whereas 10 years ago well, you didn't make your business 10 years ago, but 10 years ago that wouldn't have wouldn't have been a thing, would it?
Speaker 2:no, it wasn't, it was, just tell us what. And look, there are businesses that have been doing this a long time. If you look at, um, oh, you know mark han Hanford's lot. What's Mark Hanford's printer called? It was Beacon Press, right, beacon Press. A long time ago they were one of the greenest printers around and they set the bar really high and that was great. But that was a long time ago. That was a long, long time ago. They're still a very green printer, still a lovely printer to do great things right. But ultimately the market shifted and it's not about what does your building do, it's about what's the environmental impact of the product.
Speaker 1:Yeah, much more granular and much more detailed and much more. Yeah, exactly that Needed to be backed up with data. Yeah, yeah, you can't just and that's good data.
Speaker 2:It needs to be done properly because if you don't, if you take shortcuts on measurement and if we've got time, I'll give you a great example of this right, and it goes back to this corrugated box example that if you use an average carbon footprint, which is a shortcut way of doing things for a typical corrugated box, the swing on the average so the lowest versus the highest is about 60%.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now if you use the average, you're either underestimating your carbon footprint by about 30% or you're either overestimating by 30%. Either way is bad. By the way, you need to be absolutely on the money, so you think about a 60% swing on a ton of carbon. If you get that wrong, that's a problem, and if we're talking about a corrugated box, it could be many, many tons of CO2e. So you do not want to be using averages to calculate those numbers, and that exists a lot in the print marketplace. We we come across businesses that just use averages a lot, and it is fundamentally incorrect and fundamentally dangerous. However, it's really cheap to do. That's the thing. It's really, really cheap to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, it's so inaccurate. And then and then, equally, you know you could be well intentioned doing that, couldn't you? And you know go feeling that you're doing the right thing, but ultimately a buyer can just see that as greenwashing right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they could. I absolutely agree. Yeah, they could. It is with the right intentions, right? It's every business. Yeah, it's good to do, they're trying, but the thing is it's maturing. The marketplace're trying, but the thing is, the cut is maturing the marketplace, that's the best way to describe it. The market is maturing and every year it gets more complex, just like human being matures, right, you know. You know kids mature, they become more complex, they understand things more. The carbon marketplace is identical to that, is maturing, and therefore it's getting more granular, it's getting more detailed. It's not going to go backwards for crying out loud, it's not going to, is it right? It's only going to go forward. So, um, I think you know there's a lot of businesses out there that do some great stuff in our marketplace some beautiful, beautiful printers and there's still many that do nothing. Yeah, and that's that? That?
Speaker 1:well, that's why we exist, why we're here to help anybody you know what you're raising not a red flag but a green flag to to kind of just warn people that this is happening and and you know it's not be in front of your face right now, but it's going to become more and more of an issue. You said initially it was for the larger businesses perhaps to feel the massive impact, but it's going to filter down, isn't it to sma?
Speaker 2:well, I think the thing with legislation back to your other point is, legislation generally is targeted at bigger businesses and you know, certainly the uk print marketplace is mostly smes. Right, there's a few large businesses, of course there is, but but the threshold where, where legislation hits is, you know, most most, most businesses you and I talk about all day long are below that threshold. Therefore, legislation won't apply. Um, and that's an inherent issue with our, our industry. However, if they're printing for lego, amazon, they still want to do it. So, um, it's just, it's just one of those things that size doesn't matter really.
Speaker 2:I think, in my opinion, we deal with some little tiny printers, right, so, the smallest customers, probably a million, half a million a year turnover. We don't just deal with big ones, we deal with lots of small ones as well, but they have budget constraints, if you understand that. But they have this desire to do something because it forms part of their proposition. You know, we're a printer that's measuring carbon. We provide this information to our customers, that's, that's a really important part. So, actually, size doesn't matter in that example. The big companies obviously do, because they probably have to.
Speaker 1:The small companies want to, in general terms, and the ones that want to and do it will, ones that will win and survive, in my opinion yeah, often, when I think of smes and smaller businesses and princes, and that, I think about sustainability, strategy and and, like you say, doing the right thing and getting going on it and it's, it's a huge time, resources, investment, or at least appears to be, doesn't it? Collaboration is quite important, therefore, isn't it? I think?
Speaker 1:and and and not just among printers, but the entire, the entire industry. Really, what do you think collaboration role collaboration plays really in jive in driving progress and uh, maybe how can this brand technology providers work together more effectively to to help decarbonize uh or or improve carbon performance?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, and and, and it's actually one of the most important parts of decarbonization. So because, if you think of you know, go back to the analogy of the cardboard box and amazon again if it, if that box is printed and converted, the printer and converter buys the raw material from you know from a mill somewhere or a merchant, right. So it's then contingent on the mill or the merchant to reduce the carbon footprint of the paper, you know, or the corrugated that's been bought by the printer. The same with the inks. If the printer's using fuji inks or using inks you know, from sun chemicals, whatever it might be, it's actually down to the manufacturer of the ink to reduce the carbon footprint of the ink that's being bought by the printer. So, and we talk about this as the kind of supply chain under the printer, so the printer is almost the final mile, right, they are buying inks, they're buying plates, they're buying paper, they're buying varnishes, they're buying foils, you know, they're buying electricity. They're the final mile. So all of the supply chain behind the printer need to collaborate, and they are. And, to be fair, we work with HP, we work with Fuji, we work with big material manufacturers that make vinyl. I mean a whole raft of businesses. So we go deep into that supply chain. But if everybody did it, a printer would decarbonize quicker. So if there was a very low carbon ink and a low carbon paper and a low carbon plate which there are some that are coming through if all that works it decarbonizes the entire industry. So collaboration is everything in the industry. Because of that thing I just said.
Speaker 2:I think the second thing is from a technical point of view, a software data point of view. There's a lot of progress being made on that, where we work with lots of the big MIS ERP providers and done co-development together. We spent a lot of money on developing our software with e-productivity software, with PrintViz, with PrintIQ, esco you know that list goes on. There's many tech partners we have. And what we've done together, we've collaborated. We've jointly developed automatic carbon footprinting. So, for example, if you used fasten or you use pace or radius in under the e-productivity software umbrella, you can get automatic carbon footprinting. Now Okay, because I've done the development with them and they literally sign a contract with us and turn it on. So that means every single job that's put through that factory let's say, you know a printer using Radius every single job that's put through, that factory automatically gets a carbon footprint.
Speaker 2:Now, that comes down to collaboration and it's been five years worth of collaboration, by the way where it comes down where carbon quotes are collaborated with the software providers and now the software providers can take that new feature to all their customers and it's big right. It's a big change in the market, where? So, if you look at something like e-productivity software, I think they service something around 8 000 factories. Their software manages 8 000 print factories around the world. Okay, so every one of those factories can get automatic carbon footprint, assuming they're signed a contract with me. Yeah, so that's the best example of collaboration and that keeps going. Right, it keeps going in our world is how do we serve up instant carbon data to a printing company? And they need no training, they need no expertise, but they get the best quality data served up in their current workflow, fully automated.
Speaker 1:It's game-changing, marcus, yeah it makes it incredibly easy for the printer right to be able to provide that insight and depth without having to write the program. You know I mean otherwise it's. It's mathematically difficult but equally um so variable, and it's not what a printer wants to focus on doing right that's not what they're doing.
Speaker 2:They want to print beautiful brochures. Well, I understand that. And and ultimately, yeah, it has to be automated as well, because if you said to a printer you need to go employ somebody to help produce carbon data, they're not going to do that. It's a low margin sector. We know that everybody is looking at how do they use innovation to automate, how do they streamline their processes in their factories, and carbon has to do exactly the same. You can't have a process that stops of. You know a factory operating. You need a, a way of doing it within the current process that they exist in a factory. So, and that's what we've done with with many, many software providers, and it's the main it's the main thing that we sell nowadays is automation in factories. Yeah, automation of carbon footprint in factories yeah, it's very compelling, I think yeah I mean it?
Speaker 2:saves the money. That's actually point earlier. Is it going to cost the money? It saves the money actually because it saves them employing people you pointed earlier. Is it going to cost them money? It saves them money actually because it saves them employing people. I was talking I won't say here, but I was talking to a printer in Slovakia and they employed four people to produce carbon footprint data.
Speaker 1:Four people.
Speaker 2:And they put a bit of software in and those four people now are doing something more. They're doing something more than they're doing something really meaningful now in the company yeah, so you can imagine the money.
Speaker 1:That saves a lot of money, yeah yeah, incredible um, following the theme of collaboration, really, um, dominic, because that that's key to obviously the culture within your business and the dna, and obviously the theme of sustainability, that carbon quota. Recently um endorsed, or joined as a founding partner, the um manifesto for more sustainable print project. That um we're involved in and and you've become a partner um what made you want to get involved in this and and perhaps what do you think you hope it will achieve for the industry?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, the minute we saw it, I was like, yes, we're getting involved, and the reason is that it's something that has simplicity and is there to help and guide printers. There are many other things in the marketplace I'm sure you're aware of, but they can be very complex and quite onerous. But ultimately, the manifesto is to us, helping the industry in the true sense of the word. Helping the industry, yeah, so, and. And yes, it gives guidelines, yes, it gives a lot of help and you know, you know it helps businesses understand the best way to be more sustainable. But it's that having that help principle behind it and we, you know, the minute we saw it, marks we said we need to get involved.
Speaker 2:It helps being backed by some big names right, you know, you know, being very candid, hp involved is absolutely incredible. Of course it is, yeah, but ultimately, having something that is so simple and has the potential of being so powerful is going to help the sector, and something that I'm passionate about. I know my team are passionate about it. So you know how, how will we not be involved? Because we have to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, no, it doesn't. It does match very closely with your values and and your objectives and and so on, which is and it's also really helpful having you involved because of your knowledge and your um place in the market. So it adds a lot of uh credibility to the project, to the project in general, really. And I think, um, one of the key things I guess it's one of the challenging things with the manifesto is obviously it's very collaboratively created but, like you've just said, it's to demystify sustainability, isn't it? Because there is so many sort of perhaps red herrings, if you like, on the one hand, and complexity on the other. So its aim really is to distill that down into actionable, understandable principles, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and look, we spent half an hour talking about lots of the challenges and next year is going to be a very challenging year for the print marketplace. You know, if those laws come, the legislation comes, if those clients continue to ask for more and more data, the print supply chain is going to go and you know, if they've not done anything, they're going to be. It's going to be a very difficult time for them. So having a framework that they can work to is only a good thing. It's only going to be a good thing because I haven't got a crystal ball, but I've got a really clear idea. This is going to get tougher. Yeah, it's not going to get easier, as I keep saying.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, you know, manifesto serves that purpose, right, it serves the purpose. It's not dictatorial. It doesn't state precisely which is exactly what you want. You want printers to sign up. You want, you know, printers to endorse and support it, and you've got that tone perfectly right in my opinion, right. So, and you know I could see, every printer in Europe should sign up in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, brilliant thanks, and it's great to have you involved in that. Obviously, you're the CEO of Carbon Quota, growing global business, really successful in that. But, like you said at the beginning of your journey, you were a printer before the days of Apple, and so you know what it's like to be a printer, and you know what it's like obviously because you work with lots of different printers too and help them with carbon quotient sustainability generally. Then just a final question, really just to kind of leave with people what. What practical first steps would you advise print companies to take if they're at the start of their sustainability journey or perhaps feel a little confused or overwhelmed about where to start?
Speaker 2:I think the first thing is sign up for the manifesto, marcus. That would be the most practical step, but anyway, but that aside, yes, so I think there are some very basic things printers can do and they're not particularly expensive either, I think measuring their building carbon footprint. If they do nothing now and they need to start a journey, they need to measure the carbon impact of their building and that will get them from ground zero to doing something, and I think then, so that's the practical thing. I think what's more important than the practical step is getting ceo buy-in okay, is making sure that the guy or the girl that owns that business because they're often the ones we don't talk to making sure that the ownership of that company understand the importance of why carbon measurement exists and we spend a lot of money on marketing to do this and a lot of it is about education.
Speaker 2:But I think getting the CEOs on board is definitely going to help a business start on its carbon journey. Because you know, we're not free, mark, as I wish I was. I'd be very much busier if I was free and and price is always a barrier in this marketplace, but ultimately, if the CEO understands the benefits of doing it, they could win more customers, they could retain customers. You know that all of those things, those big benefits exist for. You know, doing having a strong carbon strategy, I think is probably the most practical step is getting the ceo on board yeah, it's that holistic approach, isn't it?
Speaker 1:that kind of buy-in? That's really important, absolutely fantastic advice. Thank you for joining us today. Really interesting well thank you congratulations with the business as well. Um, you know great to hear an inspiring story of growth and and and also change. Yeah, that the market and you're helping the market change for good. So I think that's uh, that's a nice thing to leave people with. So the website is carbonquotacouk brilliant, all right, well, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Thanks for joining us again, thank you for your time, really enjoyed it and I think I'll see you. I will see you in barcelona, won't I? Absolutely look forward to that, okay fantastic.
Speaker 1:Thanks a lot.
