FuturePrint Podcast
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FuturePrint Podcast
#271 Labels, Packaging and the Next Wave of Digital Print: Insights from Keypoint Intelligence at Labelexpo Barcelona
In this special edition of the FuturePrint Podcast, recorded just after a bustling week at Labelexpo in Barcelona, we sit down with three leading analysts from Keypoint Intelligence: Jeff Wettersten, Charles Lissenburg, and Marc Mascara. Together, they unpack the latest trends shaping the labels and packaging industry, drawing on insights from across the show floor.
Jeff takes us on a journey through the evolution of Labelexpo, from the introduction of inkjet presses in 2008 to the latest Chinese technology making waves in 2025. He highlights three dominant themes: productivity, embellishment, and the shift from “low-volume” to managing real industrial volumes with digital presses.
Marc brings a fresh perspective from the packaging and labels advisory service, spotlighting capacity utilisation and the next generation of younger product managers shaping the industry. He also points to hybrid printing and high-resolution 1200 dpi heads as areas gaining real momentum.
Charles rounds off the discussion by reflecting on the overall atmosphere in Barcelona—improved venue, strong attendance, and an unmistakable sense of optimism despite recent market headwinds. He also stresses the growing importance of workflow software and data-driven productivity in enabling converters to scale profitably.
The conversation also explores the rapid improvement of Chinese OEMs, the future of AI in workflows and customer service, and the risks and rationale behind the Labelexpo rebrand to LOUPE.
This episode is a must-listen for converters, OEMs, and brand owners who want to understand where the labels and packaging industry is heading. Expect straight-talking analysis, insider observations, and a snapshot of how digital print is evolving into a mainstream production tool.
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Welcome to the FuturePrint podcast celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
Speaker 2:Well, hi there, welcome to this week's FuturePrint podcast, and it's a bit of an unusual one, because we were all at Label Expo last week in a very warm Barcelona, and I wanted to gather together the Keypoint Intelligence Analysts and just have a chat with them about what they saw, what they felt the event did for the industry and where the market is going, and just get a bit of a kind of heads up on what was going on on the ground in Barcelona. So let me introduce the group I've got today. I've got three speakers, which is great, starting with Charles. Charles, you are sales director for Keypoint in Europe, aren't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got a dual role. I do sales in Europe and I work with the analyst group on the production side on a global scale.
Speaker 2:Thank you, charles. And then Mark Mascara, who I haven't met before. So, mark, give us an intro.
Speaker 4:Good to meet you. Yes, mark Mascara, I'm the principal analyst for our labels and packaging advisory service, coming to you out of Rochester, new York.
Speaker 2:Fantastic. Thank you for that. And finally, we've got Jeff and Jeff, you're slightly more strategic on labels and packaging, so just intro yourself.
Speaker 5:Well. Thank you, chester. Jeff Wetterstein. I am the VP of label and packaging for Keypoint Intelligence, involved in the digital side of this industry for about 25 years now.
Speaker 2:Jeff, you are, as I said, a little bit more strategic than kind of maybe a little bit. You know where we go down into the deep of products and so forth. So give us a little bit of a feel for how you sense the labels and packaging market had been going up until this point and then give me a little sense of where you think it is going going forward. And then we'll go back to Label Expo and find out what we all saw and what we thought about the event. So, Jeff, give us a little bit of a heads up as a key point analyst in this area.
Speaker 5:Certainly, frazier, and thank you. I've been involved in many, many Label Expos now and I kind of go back and I look at them in terms of four-year spans and what's changed and what's occurred. I'll take you back to 2008. The big news at 2008 was the introduction of inkjet technology in the labels market yeah, of course. Then you go into the period of around 2012 and that, and big news at that label expo was the converting capability around the introduction of laser die cutters, and that fast forward and go through 2016 and that period around there was software development. Then you go through. We have the COVID period kind of waned a little bit. The COVID period kind of waned a little bit. So, coming into this year, the expectation and what I was looking for coming out, a group of the number of Chinese suppliers coming in and are they going to make an impact in digital print for labels and, if so, where and how? So the impact of the Chinese suppliers. So the impact of the Chinese suppliers Going into Label Expo, everyone was talking about productivity gains around the technology and the ability to move beyond the original industry message of low volume to where the low is no longer in the equation.
Speaker 5:It's management of volume and the complementary process to analog. And then the third area is a continuation of the growth and the focus around embellishments and capabilities of embellishment to drive value. Certainly saw all three at Label Expo. What I did not see at Label Expo and what I was looking for in the discussions with the OEMs is how are they really going to accelerate volume growth in the market and what's the strategy? There and in discussions with OEMs that was kind of missing. We're still nibbling at the edges in terms of the value add and things that traditional analog cannot do or it's not desired to run that on a conventional analog press. So the industry is still somewhat dependent on change at the brand owner standpoint, acceptance and embracing of that change at the brand owner standpoint, acceptance and embracing of that change at the brand owner standpoint before digital really accelerates from a volume perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and are you talking?
Speaker 5:I asked the question why.
Speaker 2:Jeff, are you talking about labels? Are you talking more generally about packaging?
Speaker 5:That would be specific to labels, but it also applies to packaging in a broader context. Keep in mind that the world of converting is a world that is primarily based on the delivery of high volume at low cost. That does not align with the industry message of where and how digital entered. But we do see many converters specifically in labels today, as well as some of the other packaging segments. They've taken the low out of the equation and now it's driven by what makes sense for the converter on a daily basis and or the customer on a daily basis, and segments or areas of the market have transitioned, but the market broadly has not transitioned okay, let me ask, mark, because mark you and I haven't spoken before, so I'm interested to hear your feeling about, obviously, jeff's done quite well.
Speaker 2:He's just given us those kind of three points that he was looking for. Anything else you might want to add to that Anything you particularly saw that you thought, hmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 4:So two things just to piggyback on. Jeff's was, you know the buzzword was productivity. As I dug in deeper with conversations with a number of the digital OEMs, I was seeing the lacking, the thought of what is the true capacity of the equipment they're manufacturing. What is the true capacity of the equipment they're manufacturing Meaning what is? You know what's the volume I'm going to get out of this press? That is actually chargeable. And you know, can I do one shift, two shifts, three shifts? And where is that excess capacity?
Speaker 4:Now I found that in one vendor I won't go into names that have really gravitated to that, because productivity can be across the spectrum. You know, with your workflow, with the way human interaction works, you know your productivity is going to be better, but what is your true capacity? So you know I was missing a little bit of that, but I saw that in a couple of the vendors there. The other thing, frazier, what I saw and this might just be small is that coming into trade shows everybody's always talking about, we've got to tell you, just walking around the show floor was a lot of younger generation, you know, going around and looking at demos and working on that, and I can tell you from the press conferences and all of the demos going on in the OEM booths.
Speaker 4:The product managers and the service managers are quite young. That's good to hear. Managers are quite young, that's good to hear. So I think in the labels and in packaging space I think it's a little bit different than on the commercial print side. So I was really excited about about saying that I know it's not a big technology thing but that impacts, you know, our industry and packaging very much yeah, yeah, I think that's possibly because it's more kind of retail focused, isn't it?
Speaker 2:so it's just, you know, perhaps, perhaps it's seen as a slightly more creative environment.
Speaker 4:That's appealing or more exciting more exciting.
Speaker 2:Dare we say what's your take on, uh, what's been said so far and also what you kind of felt overall, before we get into the kind of the weeds of it so first of all, moving to Barcelona, I have to personally say I like the venue better.
Speaker 3:I like the city better. Temperature was warm outside and to some extent warm inside in certain halls, but they try to address that and fix that. I think there was a preference in certain halls, but they try to address that and fix that. I think there was a preference for certain halls for people to go. Certainly on the first day I think it was more spacious in terms of setup. I was still somewhat surprised and I've got to do the math a little bit about how much money the industry collectively is investing in an event like this. A lot of people there, four or five halls that are fully loaded. I think that was impressive.
Speaker 3:There was still a technology focus from many angles. What Jeff was saying is what he's looking for. You saw a lot of embellishment for sure in in various capacities, either offline or in line um I. You saw a trend towards um higher quality ink heads. 1200 dpi seems to be coming and making its way into more and more devices and I'm particularly interested personally but that's my background into the, the workflow and the software side of it, because I think there is still room for optimization and with all the data points that we're collecting in in machines these days, you got to be able to, to get to what mark says, like, how do we improve the, the actual sellable? Um, you know square meters per hour, per day or per shift, and that's a combination of machines. It's a combination of software. That's a combination of scalable. You know square meters per hour, per day or per shift, and that's a combination of machines. It's a combination of software. It's a combination of, you know, post-press. Yep, that, to me, was the more intriguing part. Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 3:I had a good couple of days, I have to say.
Speaker 2:I think everything you said makes sense. You know, as an event organizer could see that, uh, barcelona is a far more attractive city to run an event like this, a large-scale, global event, um, than it was in brussels. Brussels was not a great venue for kind of various reasons. Barcelona is better, you're right. Uh, I'd say they. I would honestly say they had some teething problems. I don't think it was as smooth as they would have liked. Like you said, the air con in Hall 3, that was tricky, but I think everyone who was there there was an enthusiasm. It was like we'd had a very, I'd say we'd had a slow summer.
Speaker 2:Summer had been quite slow. We know, don't we, the conversations that we've all been having. People are worried about the markets. They're not quite flowing as they should be. But I think Label Expo as an event was a good event. It delivered some excellent new technology, interesting, lots of good conversations, buzzing, you know, buzzing halls, great stands. I think generally you know positive tick, tick, tick kind of thing for the organizers. Think generally you know positive tick, tick, tick kind of thing for the organizers. Uh, we'll talk about the name change, uh, in a moment, because I'm not sure we all agree that that's a good move. But look, I want to just dig a bit deeper with with jeff's comments, um, impact of the chinese market. That was a interesting comment you made. There were a lot of Chinese exhibitors, loads, but what do you think? Generally Improved technology.
Speaker 5:I guess I'll take that one on first.
Speaker 2:It was to you, jeff, it was to you.
Speaker 5:I was amazed, just looking at the technology whether it was digital or analog technology, at the technology, whether it was digital or analog technology, very difficult on face value, just looking at the equipment, to see really any significant difference in press quality visually between western manufacturers and what I saw from the Chinese manufacturers. So kudos to them.
Speaker 2:So you're saying much improved in the last few years.
Speaker 5:Dramatic improvement If you look at it just from a build quality standpoint. Tremendous improvement. And I think part of that is the number of Western OEMs who are utilizing Chinese manufacturing to build their presses. So now the Chinese manufacturers understand the quality expectations not only of the market itself and the printer themselves. So that has clarity to the Chinese manufacturers from an expectation standpoint. So they've upped their game in that area.
Speaker 2:Anyone, jeff in particular, can you pinpoint a couple of names that might be interesting for people to look out for?
Speaker 5:Yeah, I'll probably butcher the name, but if you look at what Flora was exhibiting on the digital side, if you look at what a Palasi was exhibiting on the digital side, if you look at I forget who the analog manufacturer was that had four large presses in their booth, up to eight color configurations on that, yeah, definitely improved, mark Charles, either of you got any comments about the Chinese improvement in technology, mark?
Speaker 4:Well, improvement in technology. I mean, obviously it's going to be a question as to the reliability in the field, but if you look at, you know obviously the heads, you know everybody's going to be the same now. So the technology is pretty much par, I would say, with a lot of the other OEMs. One thing that I thought very interesting, looking at it from a marketing point of view, because you have the technology but you've also got to sell all that right and probably for most of the Chinese vendors and this is just my opinion, at least in the booth and the way they were presenting and that is just my opinion, at least in the booth and the way they were presenting it, it was more, I would say they didn't have the, the, the skills or the English way to be able to verbalize it. But in some of the booths that were very busy, you would actually see that.
Speaker 4:you know you had the people from the main manufacturing that were actually making sure the demo was going well, but you had, you know, someone from france, someone from italy somebody from the states that was doing that connection in that cell yeah and I think that's that next part of you know them moving forward yeah, it's cultural, isn't it?
Speaker 2:there's a definite shift, um, without a doubt. You know, when we look at Chinese exhibitors, they behave in a different way than, say, europeans. I have to say that Europeans behave in a different way than Americans.
Speaker 4:Of course, of course, of course, but there is a stigma there, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can normally spot an Italian or a French man on his stand compared to an American on his stand.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 1:In terms of lots of ways.
Speaker 2:I just want to dig a bit deeper into what you saw. What you saw, what you liked. I mean I spent a lot of time on Domino's stand. I also went on to the Dantex stand, spent some saw some new launch technology, some really interesting. I was focused more on digital. To be honest with you, I was looking at digital stuff. What did you guys see, charles um?
Speaker 3:I spent quite a bit of time on embellishment um across the various segments. Interesting, it's a. It's a. It's a relatively low cost value add if you do spot varnish or you do it with accents and it creates the impression on a label that the product has a higher value. Certain people take a slightly different approach. Some do it inline, some do it offline, some do it with different technologies.
Speaker 3:I thought it was intriguing to see I still feel different technologies. I thought it was intriguing to see um, I I still feel but jeff would probably have a more educated opinion and research-based uh answer to it it still feels to me a little bit like a niche. It got, relatively speaking, to what's applied out there in the market. I think it got a lot of exposure, yeah, which is good because it means there is interest. But is it really hitting the full production lines massively? Yep, I think that's still out there in the future, but certainly not today. And then you get to the point where, if everybody does it and it becomes mainstream and it's on every you know piece of label being printed, what then is the differentiating factor?
Speaker 2:on, yeah, agreed, mark. What did you see? Tell me? Give me, give me some, some interesting stuff that you you saw so what, what?
Speaker 4:what I was feeling was you know this story about hybrid, yeah, um, which which seems to be, you know, catching on more and more, um, you know, especially with the 1200 dpi heads, um and dealing with. You know you're not going to get rid of that, that old flexo press um so fast. And if you're looking into roi and all that, so a number of the vendors that were actually showing that was really digging deep into that ROI and you know, building out their portfolio, like you said you had been to Domino, you know they've now got the low-end, mid-end, high-end, you know, and of course everybody was looking at the new low-end. But you know, on the other side of the booth, you know they've been doing hybrid for a while. But you know 1200 DPI and there was a lot of buzz, you know, around that and you know, as I look at forecasts of that, that's ticking up, you know, and I think Jeff has a little bit of different perspective as well, but you know that really caught my eye.
Speaker 4:Embellishments obviously Charles talked about. The stands were just packed. The excitement, you know. That really caught my eye. Embellishments obviously Charles talked about it. The stands were just packed. The excitement, you know through the whole show, but you know it was, you know, really got me when you're looking at the hybrid and where that's going to start moving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's interesting. Jeff, what's your?
Speaker 5:steer on this. I guess the one thing that strikes me, fraser, is, uh, the segmentation from a label standpoint, in terms of optionality of what you can add to a label yep today is growing tremendously.
Speaker 5:So the options available to a brand, the implications or the unintended consequence to a converter, is it recognized and is it acknowledged and how is it going to be managed in the future, the number of orders coming into a converting or a printing operation growing dramatically. The industry is focused on managing those at the production level and is doing a good job of that. But are we now trading production cost on the floor for administrative cost on the back end to manage all of these discrete orders, and at what point can the ERP systems effectively manage that?
Speaker 5:And that's still a gray area to me. Okay, effectively manage that, yep, and that's still a gray area to me.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to kind of just give you a chance to give me a couple of quick pointers. Did you see anything exciting in the AI world? Just give me a yes, I did, if you did. Or, mark, did you see anything AI wise?
Speaker 4:Yes, and you know everybody's talking about AI. But if you look at a number of the vendors of their user interface I mean, I think in the future, as we're going forward with some of the betas that these companies have out there, that UI that people are used to with the mouse, and all of that is going to turn into a chat GPT You're actually going to talk hey, get my order from last week. You know it's going to be that easy and that human touch that's going to change productivity. So you know, everybody thinks AI is just looking for information and things like that. I think, in a way, some of the vendors are going is it's going to be a dramatic shift in the UI of some of these systems.
Speaker 2:Sorry to interrupt you. Do you think generally, guys, do you think that maybe we're a touch early with this event and maybe they were talking about it but not really doing it? Yeah, go on, charles.
Speaker 3:Well, I think the natural tendency is to look at the customer and ai and at the machines. What I found an interesting announcement that was made literally on thursday afternoon is when hybrid announced that they acquired conix. Yeah, and, and conix has an interesting technology because what they do is they use AI and LLMs to make the CSR who communicates with the customer a lot more productive and efficient. And technology, but it does help in terms of speeding up the process of orders and reorders by allowing these CSRs to literally dig into thousands of emails and come up with whatever was done back in December. If a customer wants to have that job again, I mean that to me saves time and that's a customer interaction and a customer satisfaction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're right. There was definitely some things there. There were definitely some interesting conversations. I know HP were talking about their AI. Yeah, there's definitely some things happening. I think possibly this event was a touch early, but I think within the packaging and labels market you're going to see it because of everything you've said and the number of people and the amount of information that's in there AI could be valuable. I need to ask you a couple of other quick questions. Was there anything anywhere on in Europe? Obviously, we're looking at GS1 and what's going to happen in coding and marking. Was there anything that you saw on that that was kind of important? Doesn't sound like there was. Okay, that's fine. Do you know what I mean by that? Okay, fine, then don't worry about that.
Speaker 3:It didn't race to the level where it got my attention. It may have been there.
Speaker 5:The one thing I would add to that the number of companies exhibiting or demonstrating print bars growth dramatically. Of companies exhibiting or demonstrating print bars, yeah, growth dramatically. That's interesting the connection and whether it's print bars going onto a packing line, a converting operation, whatever. So that was number one. And then the continued growth in hybrid systems Agreed To go through and support that type of activity. So the industry is moving in that direction. They recognize both Indeed as well as the opportunity and are addressing it with a wide variety of optionality or product solutions.
Speaker 2:Yep. Now, obviously this event is known to us all as Label Expo. They changed their name to Loop, which we'll talk about in a sec. I just want to pick up on my understanding of this. Change of name is really to perhaps reflect the changing market and the shift away from labels to direct to product or direct to packaging. What did you see on the packaging side that was interesting and do you think that's going to be where the growth occurs? Um, in this event, and basically in the market mark, yeah, you know I won't comment on the name change.
Speaker 4:Um, we've gone. We've gone through that too much in the states with a cracker barrel. Um, so I'll, I'll leave that on the cutting room floor for sure. Um, you know. But in terms of packaging, you know broader, uh, yes, of course, I think there's going to be emergence between all of the four sectors at some point as the future goes along. Uh, especially with all of the AI technology and the cross synergies. You know, if you're going into flexible, if you're going into even just a corrugated, you're going to see that dynamic go across from the lower ends, the PSPs that are coming up and the converters looking to get into more digital. Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's the evolution of the market, isn't it? Yes, jeff, did you want to add anything there? I'll come back to Charles in a moment.
Speaker 5:I think on the flexible packaging side that makes sense because there's natural convergence there in terms of what the printer provides and the rest of it. The printer provides and the rest of it. Folding Carton, I think, is an opportunity for the show sponsors because there really is not a global presence or trade show dedicated to Folding Carton. So it's an opportunity there to go through and attract an audience and build and develop. Whether it's a fit. I have to see what direction it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but I guess a number of the manufacturers who are exhibiting are also in the space of flexible packaging, aren't they so, particularly in digital?
Speaker 5:Yeah, they are. But it's a question are you going to have enough technology to where it's worthwhile for the core folding carton converter to want to participate, or is it going to stay as the niche where we're nibbling around the edges, because the technology and solutions will be totally different between the mainline converter and what you have, if you're just middling at the edges?
Speaker 2:yeah, agreed.
Speaker 3:Uh, charles, um, you normally don't mind saying things, so so your thoughts on the name change I understand the rationale behind it, I understand how they explain what Loop stands for, but, having said that, there is a risk with departing from an established brand over a number of decades. So the question is is this the right approach, or could they have expanded on Label Expo and added something to it?
Speaker 2:You know what?
Speaker 3:There is no right or wrong, but there is an equity, for sure, in something they've established over several decades.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're right. I guess the danger for them is that someone creates an event called Labels and Labels or late digital labels or something like that, very specifically labels and nicks in because loop is not very clear as a it's going to take a lot of marketing and a lot of conveying the message for it to establish another you know brand like yeah yeah, and you can see why they've done it because they know that the label, I get it you know, then, the label market is not sufficient for them. They want a bigger market.
Speaker 3:Well, not only that their customer base is moving into flexible.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of convergence taking place.
Speaker 3:So it's a logical thing. The question is, could it have been achieved in another way? And again, there's probably a lot of people who thought about this, and they were were probably yeah, I think you're right, by by certain rent companies or ad agents or whatever, as we all often are time will tell, time will tell guys, just as we come to the end, I just want you to have a little think um, give me one thing that you really liked there.
Speaker 2:What did you see that you really like? You could say I really liked the um, the food, but um, but give you see that you really liked. You could say I really liked the food. But give me one thing you really liked at Label Expo and was pleased to see. It doesn't necessarily have to be big, it could just be something interesting. Mark, let's start with you.
Speaker 4:Well, what I really like, because I was running around to all the booth is you know the samples, right? People handing out samples, two samples doing samples on the booth and some vendors weren't. So you know, I think that's a bonus for people that are coming because you really want to see those samples, and I mean I was. I was just blown away. I won't name the booths, but embellishment, the foils, you know the detail that you can get with. You know the inkjet heads now with those embellishments is just it blew me away and I think that's why some of those boosts were busy the whole day yeah, so Interesting Jeff.
Speaker 5:I guess for me it would be the energy at the show and the optimism about the future. I go back and I recall shows in the early 2000s packaging related shows where no one would participate because packaging was not synonymous with print. And I recall a conversation years ago with Frank Romano where he said digital will never have an impact on packaging because packaging doesn't value print. Now we're in an environment where some analysts and some pundits out there are saying that in the next five years packaging will represent 70% of the global value of print.
Speaker 2:Sorry, Jeff, can you just give me that again? We just got a little bit of a technical glitch when you said those very important words, what they were going to represent.
Speaker 5:Coming back. Packaging is now the focus for the printing industry. That's very evident in terms of the energy, the investment, everything else. So it's relative to print. It's the area of growth and optimism and you see that in every show you participate yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 2:I think you're right. And let's finish off with charles. Charles, give me one thing that you were pleased to see in Barcelona.
Speaker 3:So, first of all, to me, it's always great to see people that you've been working with and working for, you know, over the last years, and it's good to see old friends, but what's even more exciting is what Mark said is establishing new relationships. Right, there is a new generation that's popping in. There's customers as well that you interact with. It's not just the vendors and the OEMs. There's a lot of customers there that over the years you've gotten to know and others that you're getting introduced to, and I think it's a great learning event from that perspective. The market is moving fast.
Speaker 3:As we said, the Chinese are catching up fast. There is hybrid technology. That certainly not to be underestimated. I think that's a strong segment as well. Digital is getting better. Software is getting more important. You know it's progressive, it's an evolution. It's it wasn't revolution this time. I didn't see anything that was earth shattering or or shocking to me, but it was still good to see things are moving forward and and to what Jeff said, that the fact that the mood was actually across the board positive and everybody admitting that it had been a couple of challenging quarters, but everybody felt that the corner was being turned and that's good. We need that.
Speaker 2:So my vote is 7 out of 10 for this first outing in Barcelona. What's your thoughts, Charles?
Speaker 3:I actually give it an 8., an 8. Jeff. What would you give it? It would probably also give it an eight, an eight, jeff. What would you give it?
Speaker 5:I would probably also be at an eight.
Speaker 4:Mark, I would say eight. I probably would have been at a nine if there was air conditioning day one.
Speaker 2:We're not meant to mention that Sorry.
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 2:Oh well, that's good. I'm being a little bit more tough on them because I know how to organize good events. Anyway, listen. Good to see you all. Thank you very much for giving me your time. Appreciate it. We'll run this podcast out next week. It's been good to speak to you all. Thank you for your input and we will catch up very soon, I'm sure. Thanks, Fraser, Thank you.
Speaker 3:All very soon, I'm sure. Thanks, Fraser. Thank you All right.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content. Coming up and visit futureprinttech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint Podcast.
