FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#296 - Sustainable Packaging at Speed: How Esko Is Building the Digital Backbone for a Low-Waste Future
In this episode, FuturePrint’s Elena Knight speaks with Geert De Proost, Director of Market Intelligence & Product Partnerships at Esko, about the accelerating drive toward digital, data-led and low-waste packaging workflows — and why sustainability is now a compliance essential rather than a voluntary goal.
Geert explains Esko’s role across the packaging value chain, supporting brands, pre-media and converters with tools for structural design, colour, pre-press, palletisation, workflow automation and business process management. Their mission: drastically accelerate packaging development while reducing waste, carbon impact and complexity.
A major theme of the discussion is the regulatory shift reshaping packaging. With EPR, the EU’s PPWR and emerging global sustainability rules, brands now face direct financial consequences if packaging isn’t designed and documented correctly. That pressure is driving a need for accurate, structured digital data — something Esko’s cloud platform is built to enable.
Geert also breaks down the three Manifesto principles most aligned with Esko’s work: optimised design for purpose, improved print efficiency, and leading with data and transparency. He reveals how combining structural and palletisation intelligence avoids “shipping air”; how colour and planning tools reduce makeready waste; and why digital data is the industry’s most urgent blind spot.
The episode also explores cultural change, the evolution of the packaging ecosystem, and where the biggest sustainability wins can be achieved today — especially in conventional printing, where simple workflow improvements can significantly lower waste.
Esko joined the Sustainable Print Manifesto to help drive cross-industry collaboration, and Geert shares his vision of a future where Esko acts as the data backbone connecting brands, converters, printers and recyclers.
A must-listen for anyone involved in packaging, print workflows, sustainability or supply chain transformation.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to the Future Print Podcast. I am Elena Knight, and today we're talking about sustainable print workflows and how smarter tools can help cut waste from packaging and print. I'm joined by Ghirt de Post from ESCO. I hope I pronounced that correctly. And ESCO have recently become a partner for the Sustainable Print Manifesto. Ghirt, thanks for joining me. How are you today?
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. Very well. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent, fantastic. So could you just describe what ESCO does and how sort of the whole sustainability would fit into that as well from your perspective, please?
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So ESCO is a software provider to the entire packaging value chain. So our customers are brands, pre-media and converters. And we have different software packages to deal with pre-press, automation, business process management, structural design, paletization, color, many, many things that basically are part of this, part of the work that needs to happen from packaging definition all the way to actually production. And so we try to accelerate that chain from what it is today to essentially double, triple it in speed without jeopardizing quality. So it's all around data, it's about cooperation, collaboration between the different stakeholders across the chain.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, fantastic. Thank you. And how does your role sort of fit into that? What do you do on a day-to-day basis?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I've been here for a while, and my current role is I'm uh director of market intelligence uh and and and product partnerships. So, and as part of that, as the name suggests, I'm kind of looking at what the trends are, how the landscape is changing, landscape is changing, how our customers are going to be affected by that. And of course, sustainability is one of these denominators that go across um the chain. And so, and in that context, I'm working on partnerships that are relevant and impactful and in helping both of us or all of us to achieve um the main goal, which is better sustainability and less cabin.
SPEAKER_01:So, what has convinced you that sustainability and packaging has sort of shifted from a nice to have to a basic requirement for brands?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's a simple one. Um, before there was voluntary KPIs that people put on their websites. Now it's compliance, it's regulatory compliance. The legislations are coming in different parts of the world. In Europe it's PPWR, but EPR is kind of happening everywhere, basically. And now it becomes not just something that you should do because it's the right thing to do, but also it's really going to cost you money if you don't. And that's now driving those brands, mainly, but also like big converters, to kind of go away from their voluntary KPIs and just follow what legislation is telling them to do.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, and sort of uh how does that actually translate in the comp into the conversations that you're having with your customers? What are they actually saying to you?
SPEAKER_02:So, oh, that's uh there's multiple angles to that. What are they saying is, well, from a brand perspective, now it all of a sudden sustainability has monetary impact. Uh, and to understand how they can navigate that and lower that cost, now it's more of a procurement thing, working with people that are actually going to print it, they therefore have the substrates, or they should tell the brands what the substrates are made of, composition-wise, inks, adhesives, many, many components that um uh roll up to the full specifications and these specifications together with the artwork, because it's often forgotten, then it's basically um a matter of understanding all right, is this now uh compliant? Is it recyclable? If it's not recyclable, how can we make it better? It all drives down to data, uh digital data, because ultimately that's what needs to be reported to the authorities eventually as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And um touching back on the sustainable print manifesto, so we set out the nine principles. Um so from designing for purpose and choosing better material than inks. Um which one of these principles resonates most strongly with ESCOs?
SPEAKER_02:I'll pick three. They're very closely.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, please please, yeah, please do.
SPEAKER_02:The very first one is optimizing designs for purpose. You know, that leads directly to our structural design software, where for the longest time we've we've we've given structural designs the opportunity to make a package with or a carton that's fit for purpose and build around an object. Um, but also our palletization software is really logistics, and and that has always had the aim to have the highest cube efficiency and the most economic way of shipping something. What we're doing lately is basically combining those two. So now you can basically have a like a logistics-first approach where logistics are going to define what the correct case size is in order not to ship any air, because that's also becoming part of legislation. So we're kind of combining these core technologies that we've always had. So that's really, really close to uh to what we do on the on the CAT and the pelletization side of things. The second one will be closely related, print efficiency. Also, here I think we've always advocated or try to reduce waste to to a minimum possible. And that's there are many aspects to that. It could be in colour where expanded gamut could reduce the changeovers. And if there's if there are changeovers, it you know, the the time to get to print quality, print ready, uh run is shorter. That means less waste, less ink waste. Um many, many things. Planning, intelligent planning, quantity-based planning, all of that adds to less changeovers, less waste. It's really core to what we've always been doing, except now it has a sustainability angle as well as an economic angle, which is a perfect combination. And then last and then last but not least is a lead with data and transparency. One of the biggest problems that the industry is facing is digital data. Uh, and now in the context of regulations, it's going to drive digital transformation and the need to have digital transformation, digital data available, but also shareable. So everybody that needs to have access to the data can have the data in a digital form. And um, yeah, exactly that's where we build out our cloud platform for is to have that the entire supply chain um really using the same you know backbone to to manage and share data as needed.
SPEAKER_01:And just sort of from that perspective, is it you you said the whole digital workflow? Um how do you sort of translate that into an everyday sort of print run print line? How does that sort of work from that perspective?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so also here there's I guess two sides to it. On the brand side of the world where something is, some idea is born, you need to have you need to have it, you have a product, you need to have a package for it, you need to have a label, secondary, tertiary pack. I think a sustainable workflow starts there that all the data, all the information is available for the packaging engineer to really make the right choices, not just on cost, but really understand what the impact is on sustainability, recyclability and carbon right at that very point. Um, because once it's that, I mean, sustainability shouldn't be a reporting thing, it should be an active part of a strategy and a process. Uh, so that's for me what a sustainable print workflow, well, I guess not print because it's too early, but a workflow on the brand side looks like. On the converter side, I think it's um it's more and more collecting data. Um, it's it's understanding every step of the process. Am I on track for recyclability, for carbon footprint? Do I have the data? Am I able to tell my customer what it's going to look like from a sustainability perspective? So I guess it, I guess it's again bringing data into the process, not just to minimize waste, because that ticks the the box on scope one, scope two, three, but also to, in the sales process, to help the brands make the right choices and bring sustainability in the sales process, which is rarely the case today. And some of them are doing it, and that's the right thing to do, because you know, uh economic, the economically best solution can sometimes also be the most sustainable solution. And not bringing that to the table as an alternative is something we should really change.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that's great. And um, why did ESCO decide to become a partner of the sustainable print manifesto? So, what did you see in it that felt different from from other sort of industry pledges?
SPEAKER_02:So for us, it's um first as a company, as ESCO, but also our parent company, Veralto, it's very high on the radar. It's part of our strategy. And um, for instance, we have a silver Ecovada score, you know, we want to get to platinum, uh, but it's really important that we uh lead by example. Um, and and so on the Ecovada side, that's on our footprint, if you like, but but also we have software that has a substantial handprint as in helping our customers to do the right thing and to be better and to providing them with all of the data and the workflows for them to be better on an ongoing basis. So it was just uh over and above the fact that it's the right thing to do, it makes a lot of sense uh for a business and and and for a player like ESCO to be guiding the entire industry towards towards those goals, you know, regulatory goals or or or otherwise, but sustainability in general.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that sounds great. And how how do you want your teams to use the manifesto in practice? So internally, rather than looking at it from the side of you know your cut your customers? Um, how about internally? How is that going to work out?
SPEAKER_02:So I think the manifesto helps. Um we already have um part of our business is like if we have something new that we want to do, sustainability is one of those vectors that is taken into account. To which extent is what we're going to do going to be sustainable? If it's a piece of hardware, then you know how are we going to make sure that the footprint of that hardware and our sourcing is under control? Um, but especially with software helping converters and brands, how does that tick the box for what's the value of what we're trying to do from a sustainability perspective for these different uh customers of ours? So we're embedding it essentially in our in our processes towards new or updated products.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that sounds great. So you're basically saying you've you you're sort of you've got it within the process rather than at the end of the process. Um so what changes for the for the customer once it's once you've got the data all the way through rather than just when it comes out at the end of the process?
SPEAKER_02:Um well the changes, well, what changes is that they can make the right decisions. Um when they make decisions, that sustainability is not an afterthought. It's part of that very decision. Um and and one of the things, for instance, that we've been doing is been working with Carbon Quota, another founding member of the Um Manifesto, to bring in carbon footprint in, for instance, palletization. That may sound like uh an obvious one, but quite frankly, people are thinking that if it's the more product I can get onto my palate, you know, the better it is from an economic perspective, but also from a from a footprint perspective, because I'm gonna have less trucks on the road. However, there are counterintuitive things like the way you format that pallet load, are you going to use plastic wrap? Are you going to use metal straps? These things have a major impact that not everybody is aware of when they're doing it. So bringing that carbon in there is really balancing economics with sustainability, not bringing it in there and people go blind, and it's again it's a reporting game at the end of the exercise, and it shouldn't be. We should turn that equation upside down and make sustain sustainability part of every single decision across the chain.
SPEAKER_01:Um, talking about every single sort of decisions across the whole chain now, looking obviously at marketing and um production, um, how does this change the conversations between them? Because obviously you don't want to kill a really good idea because of the the carbon sort of impact. So how how do you sort of it's a balancing act, I guess. How do you how do you manage that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's not an easy one. We have partners on the recyclability side, I think. We have partners on the carbon side of things, and then we have, of course, what economically makes sense. And the triangulation of that can be somewhat of a challenge, I must admit. And and we're all aware of the adverse effects of EPR that people don't necessarily care care too much about having lower carbon. You know, there should be a triangulation there as well, and one day it will be. Um, but that is not something which is which which today people are just going back and forth, and it just depends on how much time they want to spend on that, because it's really talking to different people with different insights and going back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Ultimately, this is where I think um it's a perfect example of how how artificial intelligence will bring those things together and modulate it and bring multiple options to the table. But not bringing it to the table is something we should avoid. And I think with our partnerships we're avoiding that, but it is not a fully automated where you say, hey, tell me exactly what the best combination is using this material or that material or that material, the best combination of carbon uh economics and uh and recyclability. Uh unfortunately, that button is uh still to be invented.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree. Um, and you're talking about the regulations and the tightening around the packaging and the print side. Um so um what are your customers most concerned about? What is it where they, you know, the same question or something that keeps coming up, where they where you think, okay, that that's something that's always um going to be an issue or something we can help with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um, and our customers again, like the two answers. The the brand customers really talk to us about we need to get that EPR cost down. Uh that's front and center. Um, so that's basically how they're asking us to help because they use our business process, our web center, our packaging management solution essentially to create artwork and to manage artwork across on the brand side. Um, so that's what they're most worried about. It's the cost uh of being compliant. Um and then on the converter side, it's obviously the other side of the fence. If brands don't have the right data, then there will be knocking on the converter's door for them to bring the data, and they may not have the data. And if they have the data, it's perhaps scattered across different Excel files and uh you know, nothing's not something they can easily share. And so they're really asking us for help to to streamline the data flow eventually, the data flow from you know the source to um roll it up to to share it with the brands so that the brands can then share it again, perhaps with with retailers. Um, so that whole digitization of the data um is something that they that they're really asking us for help. And everybody's waking up, I guess, and the the digital product passport in Europe will be adding to the to the pressure.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, absolutely. And and do you see that that's the biggest sort of blind spot at the moment? So having data scattered all over the place and in different Excel spreadsheets, and you know, one side not knowing where that's stored, or is that the main issue do you see?
SPEAKER_02:Perhaps the main issue is, I mean, that's the symptom, right? These things may not be available. Uh, and if they are, you know, the importance may not be may not be judged um correctly. But I think the underlying problem is that uh generally digitization in the packaging supply chain is compared to other industries, it's lower. Um, and that's unfortunate because digital data provides business insights, provide opportunities for business growth and and and uh profitability. And this exercise is no different. And it's unfortunate in a way that the regulations are starting to force it upon us. Um whereas, you know, the the one that have that have a uh a digital transformation journey in their mind in front of front and center, they've already on that journey, so they've got a step ahead of everybody else. But uh anyway, it's good that it will be there because it will drop profitability as well.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, that that's good. And a nice so both ESCO and the manifesto emphasize cutting waste across the whole sort of store journey. Where do you see the most waste today? And what do you think are the quickest wins when when you can digitize your workflows and connect them all?
SPEAKER_02:The biggest waste is um on the print side, the biggest waste is just is running it sequentially. Um there where you have digital presses, it's less of an issue, right? Because digital presses don't, you know, to change plates and everything else. But especially where conventional printing is is there, um people still run the conventional sequential way. Um and there are simple tools, combining planning and colour, to really fundamentally reduce that waste. And reducing waste equals reducing costs are sometimes difficult to change habits that you know they've had to do for many years because there was no alternatives. But there's a lot of things to tap into that don't require you to turn the company upside down that will give you immediate benefits on economics as well as sustainability.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so um you I think you've just answered my question actually. I was just going to ask if there was one change you wish that the customer would make tomorrow, what would it be?
SPEAKER_02:It would be to uh look into simple ways to uh reduce the number of changeovers, reduce the time if you need a changeover, reduce that time fundamentally, and look at simple things like screening technologies to you know to take 20-30% of your ink usage, uh all things that tick the box on the economic side and on the sustainability side. And those are the those are the ones that are the low-hanging fruit you should look at.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, fantastic. So um looking at sort of um skills and mindsets, um technology is obviously only one part of the story. What skills and mindsets do you think are missing in many packaging and print um businesses when it comes to just sustainability side and and the measuring those results?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I'm not sure if it's skills necessarily. Um it's more a matter of culture. If sustainability isn't part of the culture, if it isn't embedded in every part of the company, uh if it's not a KPI for every given persona, um, then it's it's it's it's that's the main challenge. Yes, you'll need to measure what your carbon footprint is, yes, you need to understand about recycling, yes, you need to get the data from where it is, uh, you need to structure it and provide it to your customers. But that's a matter of just go and find it, effort. It's a bit of an investment, I granted. But I think it's more important that the culture is is uh is shifting to that sustainability mindset.
SPEAKER_01:And do you think that the culture's shifting just because the regulations are becoming stronger and and more difficult, or do you think it's just a shift in the market that you're seeing?
SPEAKER_02:Um regulations help for for sure. Uh theoretically, they shouldn't have to be there, uh, and it should be the right thing to do. But you know, we're all different people, right? We are people uh who are usually thinking the right thing, but then we end up being shoppers in the supermarket shop. And our APIs, our priorities kind of change there and then.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, so there is another angle where we should try to bring sustainability as part of innovations, so that if I'm a shopper and I want to see the things that are convenient to me, all of a sudden I'm gonna buy that. And that should kind of surreptitiously just bring sustainability along. It's not an or-aw scenario, it should be an and-and scenario. Lead with what people really care for when they're in front of the supermarket shelf in terms of innovation, convenience, and price. And if that combination is there, people will buy it. And then if it's if it is sustainable, nobody will say no.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, totally. I mean, I think there's a a bigger sort of push from consumers, isn't there, to to have more sustainable um packaging and um, but obviously I think it it also has to be convenient, like you say, so if if I can't recycle that packaging anywhere convenient, then it just goes in the bin, basically. I think there's a whole bigger issue there as well. Um but um going back to sort of the the the skills and the if you could see one type of person in every customer team, who would it be? You mean a person that would be Yes, so uh driving change, what type of person, so driving the sustainability change and and from that perspective.
SPEAKER_02:I can only think of one person, and that's the general manager's CEO. Uh has to come top down. It's it has to come top down, which I certainly would welcome any initiative from anybody in the company, however big or small. But I I guess if it's top down, it should be part of your strategy. It should be embedded in your processes, it should be part of the KPIs. It's a huge thing that we're trying to do. It's not going to happen with little spikes here and there. Um, but again, if you keep if you keep an open mind and realize that profitability and sustainability go hand in hand, then there is no reason not to have it as part of your strategy and not, you know, have it as an ongoing uh repetitive message from from the CEO all the way down to the rest of the organization.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, and I think that touches again on the whole culture, so it has to be set in the you know, in in the mission statement, basically, of the company and embedded in everything they do. Um, you keep talking about profitability and sustainability, and I think that's the big issue. It it has to every company still needs to be profitable at the end of the day, or they won't be there.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:So it's a difficult situation, I guess. Um but ESCO sort of sits in the middle of an ecosystem of the brand, the printers, the converters. Um, how do you see that ecosystem evolving over the next few years in support of a more sustainable print?
SPEAKER_02:Um, well, that revolves around data. Uh, as I said, like so the the platform that we've built really caters for for data, and that could be assets, PDF files, artworks, whatever. And and and and the um the foundation is basically that you have a versioned asset hub that whoever creates the data, wherever the data comes from, that you can securely share that data with whoever needs that data. So it's getting the data there, being able to share that data, uh, and ultimately having a complete digital chain from the very beginning on the brand side all the way to to production and finishing on the converter side. Uh, and and as I said, then every decision that needs to be taken, the the correct information, the correct data is there for that decision to be taken in a sustainable, uh, in a sustainable way. So that's essentially exactly what we're trying to do in the broader sense of of this platform is to connect all the stakeholders. And sustainability is par excellence um a team sport.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Really combining and collaborating is is uh is the mantra here.
SPEAKER_01:And are you seeing more sort of shared platforms and data? Um, so you know, people are wanting more to share with with you know other companies and and being more transparent with their data. I think you know, we all have seen the whole, oh, I don't want you to see my data type of thing. Um are you seeing is that an issue at all?
SPEAKER_02:It it still is an issue, it still lives a little bit, you know, printing is an art, quote unquote. And so that art comes a secret on how you you put it all together. It's going away though, more and more, as we're printing more and more by numbers, as there is more like AI is now coming to the party as well. Obviously, shortages in skills um is is is not helping in keeping the secrecy alive, it's really uh starting to open up, and again, it'll take multiple vectors here to to to to get where we want to be. And regulations is one of them, culture is another one, a hard one, uh, but one that is working. And um, and and I think globally we're also on the right track. Uh, even though it may seem that the consumers don't want to pay more for sustainability anymore, even though it may seem that it drops off the political agenda here and there, the trains left the station essentially, and you see it um moving forward nicely. And every time I go to an uh to an uh a sustainability conference, wherever it may be, it's it's extremely heartwarming to see the many, many examples where sustainability is front sustainability is front and center and driving growth.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, and I think you know the the manifesto is one of those um examples of collaboration of big brands joining together to try and make a difference in in the sustainability in print.
SPEAKER_02:That's exactly right. And that's also one of the reasons why we joined. Like I said, everybody, wherever in the chain, if you're a glue supplier or if you're actually a brand or a converter, a pre-media in the middle, it's on all of us.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. And looking ahead for five years, um, what would you like the industry to be saying specifically about ESCO's role in sustainable print?
SPEAKER_02:Um again, it would have to be like this platform that we announced at Drupa essentially aims to be the backbone, the data collector, aggregator, um, transparency provider um across the chain. And so the sustainability data is a fundamental part of that. So I'd like to be, uh I'd like people to see us go as hey, it's the carrier of data. It's the carrier. If you talk about packaging, you're talking about data of packaging, if it's color data, if it's structural data, if it's composition data, it's a palette data, but also sustainability data, uh, and and how it rolls up into a report, whoever needs to make that report, we would like to be that vehicle that uh carries the data. And ultimately reporting should be correct and should be automated. And we want to provide a part of that. Um, there are people who create EPI reports, let them create EPI reports, but they rely obviously on data being available and up to date.
SPEAKER_01:Well, fantastic. Um, right, I think we'll wrap this up for today. Is there anything else you'd like to sort of add to that conversation we've just had?
SPEAKER_02:No, I think that kind of cuts with a line. Uh, maybe, maybe one thing, like it's ESCO is uh is is a company in a larger group, and I'll I'll name one sister company that's very instructional in this uh in this equation as well, and that's uh that's the company TraceGains. Yeah, they have a food and beverage PLM system, they have a nutrition um uh nutrition nutritional software, um, and they source you know ingredients, but they also source packaging. And it's basically between Trace Gaines and ESCO is we tend to see ourselves as that complete system, PLM product, as well as for packaging, carrying all the data that are relevant for packaging and artwork for whoever is a stakeholder in that entire supply chain.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, fantastic. Wow, that sounds great. Well, Kher, thank you so much for your time today and for sharing ESCO's perspective on sustainable print. Um, I will link the manifesto um in the notes below. But um, yes, I'd like to thank our listeners today and thank you, Kher, for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure.
SPEAKER_02:It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Excellent.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you so much. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content coming up and visit futureprint.tech for the latest news, partner interviews, in-depth industry research, and to catch up on content from future print events. We'll see you next time on the Future Print Podcast.
