FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#308 - From Cost Centre to Growth Engine - Joanna Stephenson on Packaging, Consumers and the New Role for Print
In this episode of the FuturePrint Podcast, Marcus Timson catches up with Joanna Stephenson, Managing Director of Think B2B Marketing, to explore how packaging, consumers and print are changing – fast.
With nearly 30 years’ experience across Dow Chemical, Sun Chemical, LINPAC and now her own specialist agency, Joanna shares a rare, 360-degree view of the packaging value chain – from R&D and compliance to brand strategy and marketing execution.
Joanna explains why:
- Marketing must be treated as a growth engine, not a cost line
- Sustainability has moved far beyond “trend” status and is now a licence to operate
- New regulations (EPR, PPWR, Scope 3) will radically change what brands demand from their suppliers
- Generational shifts – from Gen X to Millennials and Gen Alpha – are reshaping how and what people buy
- Connected packaging and GS1’s move to QR codes create huge opportunities for printers as enablers of digital experiences
- AI and continuous learning will separate strategic partners from commodity providers
If you’re a printer, converter, supplier or brand-side packaging leader trying to make sense of sustainability, regulation, connected packaging and AI – and what they really mean for your business – this conversation with Jo is packed with insight, challenge and practical direction.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the latest episode of the Future Print Podcast. I'm really happy to have back after a couple of years actually, because we haven't crossed paths in a while. Welcome back to the podcast, Joe Stevenson from Think B2B Marketing.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. Good to be here.
SPEAKER_01:And Joe gave a brilliant talk at um one of our FuturePrint events in Cambridge. We also streamed on YouTube, and it's one of the most viewed talks on YouTube we've had. So that's a good indicator that it's worth continuing to listen to this interview. So, Joe, um, for people that may not know who you are and so on, give us a little bit of a, if you don't mind, an intro about yourself and um and and the business that you're uh leading now.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so um I've been in oh, I'm gonna make myself feel very old now, the industry uh nearly 30 years. My I started out actually for working for Dow Chemical, the big um huge American conglomerate working in the plastics uh division, was there for 14 years, went from being a commercial graduate to a global product director, jumped shipped, did a couple of years in consultancy in London, uh working in communications actually, which was a completely different space for me, but was then headhunted as European marketing director at Sun Chemical. So I headed up the Inks um marketing piece, which is where I kind of really learned a lot about packaging and compliance and regulatory change and all of that stuff. I then went to Limpac Group as was as head of RDM marketing, which was a fantastic opportunity because I could go look at what the market was needing and then tell the RD folks that's what we needed to develop, which is quite an unusual uh position to be in. And I loved working there. The challenge was LIMPAC was essentially for sale, it was private equity backed, and I spent five years building a brand, and they then wanted to dismantle it and put it back regionally, and I was I'd had enough. I was I was done, I didn't want to do all the work that I'd done. So I actually pitched the investors to outsource the marketing department to me, and they bit my hand off because I could save them a good sum of money, and that's when my um company was born back in 2014, which was originally known as PhD Marketing, which is still a lot of people also PhD, which is really frustrating. Um, but we rebranded in 2024 to think B2B marketing, which we felt really kind of reflected our position as a business. So today um I have a team of 28 staff, which is really scary. Um, we have over 40 clients, and about 70% of our work is is um in print and packaging applications. And that really comes from the fact that we're not a generic agency. We we you can talk to me about digital print, you can talk to me about an unlocked roller, you can talk to me about a new water-based ink, and we know what you're you're talking about, what technology you're working with, who your competitors are, etc. etc. And it really helps our clients um with their marketing and and saves them a lot of time actually having to explain stuff which they really appreciate. So yeah, that brings me right up to date. It's a busy business and yeah, a long journey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's a big success story. So um it's relatively unusual, I'd imagine, to have you know, you've came from very big, big corporation, it you're an entrepreneur, and um you obviously saw the opportunity and were brave enough to to seize that opportunity.
SPEAKER_03:And uh it's nice to I I look back now and I'm not actually quite sure how I did it because you know I did have to do a business plan and pitch in the city of London to to get the guys to agree, but um I think there was probably a lot of naivety in the mix, and I I did truly believe look, if it didn't work, then I'll go get a job again somewhere else as a as a marketing director. But fortunately it worked, and two staff came with me as well, they have the faith in what I was doing, and one of them is still with me today, which is fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:So achievement, yeah. Yeah, good stuff, and you kind of answered already, but I was gonna ask, you know, from your perspective, obviously, your expertise, your marketing competence, and so on. Is that is that the critical value you offer your clients, I suppose, and also that market knowledge, a mix of all of it and creativity? What is it?
SPEAKER_03:It's the mix, yeah. It's definitely the mix. I I it's fascinating actually, because I think a lot of companies make the mistake of thinking marketing is a cost center, we just have to do it. Whereas if it's done well, it's a growth center, it certainly drives return on investment and drives the sales teams. Um, and I'm always fascinated. It's such a broad function, and and you know, frequently it doesn't have a place at the board table, which I think is a real shame. Um, but I frequently am sitting down with business leaders. In fact, I did it this week on on Tuesday with a printer looking at his business, and we're looking at his strategy. You know, we're actually sitting and consulting on business strategy rather than marketing strategy. Where does he want to play? Where's the business going? How can he differentiate? What target markets are out there, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And we translate that into a marketing strategy for him. And it's it's really exciting. And I I always say to clients, I think one of the biggest things that's made the difference for us is we get excited when one of our clients has grown, has has had a project success, has had a win. It's not about kind of running around the office going, yeah, yeah, yeah, we've got another client. It's absolutely about our client's success. And that's what makes that's what makes us tick. And the fact that we bring that fundamental industry knowledge to the table, we're not just a generic marketing agency and without being disrespectful, they're ten a penny. You can go do a degree in marketing and come back and know how to do an email or campaign or a you know, pay-per-click campaign. It's not about that, it's about really understanding the client and the industry and being able to tailor that work to the exact needs of the client. And I think that's why we've we're winning essentially. And I say that it's the end of the year and you think, oh no, what's going to happen next year? But yeah, I think that's why we've been successful over the last 11 years, that we've we've had that mentality and it's worked very well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it's it it's an interesting point. You well, many there, but the key one that stood out is you know, the fact that marketing isn't always seen as a strategic investment. It's almost like a tactical afterthought, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Correct. And and to be honest, you know, looking at the economic conditions at the moment, you put the first thing companies do when they're making cuts because things aren't going quite as well as they they hoped is to cut marketing budgets. And for me, that's sheer madness. You know, we're we're losing business, or you know, the market isn't as buoyant, so we'll put our heads under the parapet and hide away and save a bit of money. And it's it's actually the time when you should invest in your marketing and get yourself up and shout above the noise. And and there's a lot of studies been done on on successful brands, and many, many of them are born in recessions. You know, that that um need to drive and need to do something different when things get tight actually you know creates value. And and yeah, I get a little frustrated. I I totally understand it when you're looking at your bottom line, you need to cut corners, and marketing's an obvious place to go. But yeah, it's it's a backwards step, definitely, when you've got a really good reputation and you know, consistent media outpouring and really good social media, and you know, those inquiries are coming in as a result. It's a shame when it gets cut. But a lot of my clients don't do that. I've educated them otherwise.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, absolutely becoming a key kind of partner, I guess, on a strategic level, and it becomes then you know it's not transactional, is it? As you said, it's uh it's critical to their business, which is brilliant. Um, you've got a lot of knowledge and experience of of how things are changing and in markets in the world and so on, which I'm interested to hear more about. Um, really from your vantage point, what do you see as the most important trends and shifts, perhaps, that are uh reshaping packaging and labels, whether whatever that may be, what do you see the trends being, the key ones?
SPEAKER_03:Um it's interesting, people quite often talk about sustainability as a trend, and I'm that's way beyond a trend nowadays. It's just kind of non-negotiable and courts-producing packaging. And and I think with some of the demographic changes that are going on as well, it's just expected when you're when you're buying packaging today, because it has this negative connotation as waste, you know, brands have to ensure that consumers understand the value of their packaging and what they've done to make it more eco-conscious. Um, and you know, there's there's huge amounts of work still going on in terms of driving down the carbon footprint of packaging and development of refill and reuse and all of that good stuff. Um, I think what's been surprising of late, you know, this you know, sustainability in itself has been a bit of a tsunami in the packaging industry over the last 10 years and you know, all stimulated, if we're honest, by the Blue Planet um series. But what I've been seeing of late is actually brands doing what they can, don't get me wrong, it's not a switch away from sustainability. And I always describe it as it's like flying an airplane and not having your safety certificates. You you've you've got to have a sustainable packaging option now or in a sustainable packaging portfolio. It's it's just a given. But what I'm seeing at the moment in particular is brands cutting back, actually. And it used to be dressed as lightweighting, you know, we'll we'll cut down on materials and simplify things, and that will lower the carbon footprint of our pack. But the the reduced disposable income that consumers have today with respect to all the different tax hikes and economic conditions, you know, then this is right from COVID as well, you know, the impact that it had on society, there is definitely a focus on cost down again and brands seeking ways to um get sort of lower um price point products into the market. And you know, we we we see these shrinkflation opportunities, but the the reality of it is it's the brands trying to protect market share and bring a product in that fits with the consumer's purse today, and and that's creating quite a lot of change in in packaging development. The other then really obvious key piece is regulation. It's you know, again, I use the word tsunami with EPR, plastic packed, PPWR, um, you know, the um deposit return schemes being mooted, just the amount of change that's going on from a regulation perspective, not just here in the UK but all over the world, is is phenomenal. And and dare I say, you know, I always say things as I see it, but I think we're a little bit naive actually as an industry sometimes in terms of the impacts these these legislations are going to have. Even at a at a really simplistic level, there's legislation in Europe where any any company over 40 million euros is going to have to produce its scope three emissions. Well, scope three emissions are where your whole supply chain has to provide its LCA data. So even if you're a UK company not operating in Europe, but supplying a brand in Europe, you know, if you're supplying a dun a Danon or a Dr. Ertke or whoever it is, you are going to have to be supplying your scope three emissions data and LCAs. And you know, a lot of companies are only just waking up to that. And it's been very much, you know, bringing it back to that sustainability story, it's been very much about the pack. You know, is it a recyclable material? Is it a renewable content? Whereas now that whole sustainability piece in the industry is about how you operate. And, you know, rightfully so, a sustainable packaging design is not just about the materials and inks and all that good stuff. It's absolutely about how it's been produced as well and where it's come from. So I think we're waking up to that. The other big piece then is kind of that whole smart packaging, connected packaging, personalization of packaging. We've seen a wave of digitalization, but that's going to come and come and come with the new generations coming through, the millennials that are completely digital, savvy. You know, they grew up in the cock with a mobile phone practically. And then we've got the Gen Alphas starting to become consumers as well. The whole role of packaging is changing as part of the marketing mix for brands. It used to be a bit of an afterthought, but now packaging is pretty fundamental to the way they connect and really drive consumer loyalty. So I'm a good talker, Marcus. You know that. I can give you all sorts on this.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no. So it's just making me think. So we'll come on to connected packaging. So I think that that's exciting. And I I was just thinking back to the podcast that we did actually, um, which I guess might have been 22, not long after COVID. It was exceedingly different then. It was uh yeah, it's chalk and cheese, really, in terms of how things have changed and so on. Um, obviously, a lot of the things you mentioned there, both on the sustainability and connected packaging, um, is linked to, isn't it, consumer behaviour? Um and if we're looking at retail and FMCG specifically, how's um consumer behaviour evolving? Um, and how does that truly influence brands and how they sell and communicate? And perhaps how does it impact print?
SPEAKER_03:Consumers are basically more informed than they used to be. I think that would be my takeaway. And I I can only put that down to social media and you know the wave of sustainability focus that we had in in recent years. They they definitely are more savvy about what they're buying, and there's tons of studies out there looking at the way consumers buy and what they're buying and why they're buying. And again, I I hate to bring the dem the demographics up, but we're seeing this real. You know, I'm a Gen Xer, I'm 50, what gosh, 56 in February.
SPEAKER_01:So am I. It sounds cool though, Gen X, I think, at least.
SPEAKER_03:But we tend to buy on price if something looks good, you know, we have an ear to sustainability, and I'm talking about the majority here. You know, we've we've always had our more ethical consumers, but the majority of Gen X's are very much about look, feel, price point, you know, out of it. Whereas if we look at a millennial, they're looking for a relationship with the brand, they're looking for an experience, and that's really what's changing and what's going on is they're just far more informed. You know, I have a 20-year-old daughter and 23-year-old son, and even the way they eat, the way they consume food is different to me. They don't sit down and have breakfast, lunch, dinner, they snack through the day. They they they're far more conscious of nutrition rather than and health rather than just eating. Um, and that is absolutely changing the way they shop as well. They shop online, they shop um with indie brands, they're really keen to support small local businesses, and it it all feeds through to their expectations of packaging. And on top of that, then they still have this very much um what can I call it, instant gratification, immediacy to what they're doing. It's all about convenience. If something is inconvenient and going to take too long, I'm not interested. And that also is informing the way brands are going to market and the packaging as well. Um I'd also say, which you know, Link's as touching on kinetic packaging, personalization isn't a novelty anymore. It's gone a bit like a bit of a gimmick. It they they kind of um you know, we we have the Coca-Cola labelling and the Toblerone and all of those good things, but I I don't think they fall for it in the way that they did previously. They're they're changing in terms of what they're looking for. They're looking for something a bit more in-depth and and solid as an experience from the brand. In terms of the brands, how they're going to respond to that, then you know, it really is a data-driven exercise for them, is understanding what's changing because everything's changing a lot faster. And I think AI, you know, even me with a you know marketing firm, AI is is radically changing the amount of data that we can consume and use and inform the decisions that we're making. So for brands, it's about getting those real-time insights and then adjusting their packaging developments and their product launches according to you know what the data's telling them, and then using their packaging as truly part of their marketing. As I said before, it was all about an afterthought, whereas now it's it is a channel to communicate with their customers. So it's it's it's fascinating. But the printer, um God help them, you know, it's really, really hard to keep up, I think, with with this all this change that's going on at the consumer level. I think we all feel that change is getting faster, you know, the pace of life is getting faster. Um, but print in and of itself is trusted. You know, it it's you you sometimes sort of see some of the the bodies in the industry trying to promote print. I'm thinking of things like um two sides promoting paper, and you know, a lot of the print bodies talking about the value of print, and I truly believe in it. It it is a trusted anchor within uh you know a very fast-changing world. And I think if printers can get their heads around what brands are looking for in terms of that engagement from the consumer, the loyalty, the experience, the connectedness, there are huge, huge opportunities for printers to to lean into that digital engagement piece and make business out of it. But you've you've got to have a real sort of innovative thinking strategy and focus in your business. And for me, that's about bringing young talent in as well. You know, I'm I'm a huge advocate of us focusing on on future talent for our sector because we've got an aging demographic imprint. And I think the only way us Gen Xers are gonna get our heads around all this change is is to bring these young people into our businesses and use their views and thoughts and ideas to to help us change the way we do business. You can have some answers to your questions, Marcus. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, it's fascinating, and and and I agree, I'm like where you finish really in that um how can you market to a demographic when you're not in the same ballpark, even? I mean, the the the difference in generations between perhaps Gen X and what baby boomers and then whatever predated them was closer, wasn't it? The the difference between Gen X and Millennials and then Millennials and is it Gen Z and then you've said Gen Nell, they're different and different, and and it just seems to be accelerating. So yeah, it's about insight, isn't it? And uh having an adaptable mindset, I suppose.
SPEAKER_03:And it's it's just on that, it's really interesting because there's some studies done where particularly the millennials, they they lean into kind of um the vintage stuff, you know, the stuff that feels old, trusted, traditional. Whereas Eugen Alphas, they really are kind of rocket to the moon type people on AI, digital technology that yeah, it's you realize why you tend to retire at 60 because keeping up with it is just scary, you know. And I I I was with a conference the other day, and it was it was a marketing-related conference, which I don't normally do, but was fascinating. And they said if you haven't got 80% of your processes um operating using AI in the next 12 months, then you won't be able to compete.
SPEAKER_01:Wow, okay.
SPEAKER_03:It's pretty scary. Pretty scary.
SPEAKER_01:Pretty scary, isn't it? But it's pretty scary if you don't, isn't it? It's it's it's not necessarily losing to AI, it's losing to a business that has integrated AI and is prepared to to use AI and exploring with it and learning it and so on. I I interesting stuff. Um another thing, so the event we bumped into each other at um was one of one of the key themes of of that um and speakers it was around a discussion on GS1 and the transition from within packaging towards QR codes. Um, in your opinion, does this actually represent a major opportunity for printers and converters, or is it just a technical and operational challenge that they just have to adapt to?
SPEAKER_03:Um that's a good question. Look, the the reality is they're used to printing them now. Um, so I don't think technically it's an issue. I think, if I'm honest, I think it's a huge opportunity for the pre-press industry because barcodes are going to drop away and QR codes are going to come in front and center, and there's going to be lots of redesigning of packaging to accommodate that. So I should imagine the prepress industry is rubbing its hands together because it has been pretty flat in the last couple of years. Um, yeah, for the printer themselves, I don't think there's any huge technical challenges. I think it's more what I'm hoping is it's it's going to deliver further integration between the print value chain and the marketing departments of the brands. Because the QR code on the pack, the pack is the vehicle, right? And as I said earlier, for too long, packaging has been an afterthought. And yet when COVID hit and we all started using the QR code, and then the brands and the retailers realized the sheer potential that that could bring to them in terms of connecting the consumer to the brand via the pack, it elevated packaging to just a completely different level in the mindset of the brands. So for the printer, look, I think getting creative about what the consumer can connect into as a result of the QR code and helping the brand deliver on that is key critical. But actually, in terms of the capability to deliver a QR on a printed piece of material, it's a slum dunk. They're doing it already. Let's go. I think it's more at the pre-press level of how do we leverage that. And the meeting that we went to, the launch that we went to of that study was fascinating in terms of looking at how the QR code is used, what types of people are using them today, and and what are the opportunities for brands was was significant. I think the only bit that worries me, and again it's back to those demographics, I'm afraid, is I I have parents who were in their late 70s, and my mum turned around the other day and said, darling, what are all these little funny crossword things that are appearing everywhere? And she just didn't know what it is. And I I think there's this assumption that people just do it because, well, they all started using them in COVID, right? But that isn't actually true. And I do fear that, you know, particularly when we start to put allergen information, regulatory information, use information, all this stuff in the QR code not on pack, um, there's a risk that we could be losing some parts of society from a you know, an accessibility, a disability, and a and an age perspective, which is a little bit worrying. Um but to go full circle on your question, I think the big change is the fact that the printer and the packaging become the enabler of digital technology. I don't think it sees itself like that at the moment. And I think the businesses that do and will will make huge strides because they'll be talking the language of their clients. And if they don't realize that and don't get with the program, they'll lose out because that the brands are desperate to really maximize the value of that that change and really deliver some unique campaigns and engagements using packaging. And I think those printers that can showcase here's what you could be doing, Mr. Customer, with us as a result of this this QR integration, then yeah, it they're gonna get left behind. So it's exciting times, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? Like you say, it looks like a very functional thing because it is a QR code, but actually part of the reason that GS1 are uh shifting to QR is like you said, the need for the package to store far more information.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um and it's just impossible to put it on the product. It does mean an adjustment in design, but equally, then it opens up a a storytelling platform in essence, doesn't it? So it's not just uh legal requirements and the granular detail about how the product's made, it it potentially becomes a platform to to really sort of inspire purchases, inspire loyalty. You mentioned the word trust earlier. I think that's Webprint has something special, isn't it? That trust and that um after um after COVID, I remember you saying before there's more shopper promiscuity, if you know what I mean, in terms of oh you know, my previous loyalties are gone now. And I think that's another way of re rebuilding and and perhaps inspiring trust, would you say?
SPEAKER_03:All of us have seen counterfeit products and and our industry is I well, I giggle about it, this paranoia we have on colour management. And I, you know, the guys are there with their loops looking at print for you know dirtying of print. And I'm I'm I always giggle because our paranoia around quality is so much higher than the consumer. However, when we see a fake, we know a fake and we lose trust in a brand when we experience that. The the advent of the QR code is really going to be able to drive home authentication because the the counterfeiters, they're good, don't get me wrong. But it's very easy to counterfeit a colour on a pack, some font, you know, even maybe some metallization and even some of the tags and things they've got hold of. But to actually go to the detail of then providing all the track and trace data and all the authentication through the QR code and build websites that ultimately will be traceable to track them down, I think is going to put a whole new game in play for the pharmaceutical industry and the the alcohol industry and those guys. So yeah, it's it's fascinating. But it it is, as I said, it's gonna be a mindset change for the printer in that that they they are producing the vehicle. And I think there needs to be a pride in that and a value in that.
SPEAKER_01:No, absolutely. And and with the with the connected packaging, I could call it a trend or a or what whatever you might call it, but like anything that to do with change, it starts small to begin with. Are we still at the beginning of the journey? Do you think it will actually become a mainstream requirement? Um maybe what you've already hinted at, print printers and packaging experts need to know about its potential trajectory.
SPEAKER_03:Um it is the only way the industry will go with with the advent of AI. You know, I know there's a lot of talk about kind of the bubble bursting, but fundamentally AI, we're we're moving into industry 4.0, industry 5.0 in in technology. And the industry is going to change with or without you, I think is is my view. You know, you you you you have to be not just thinking about the number of linear meters or units that you can print, but the value proposition that that pack or piece of print is going to give to the brand, and then wrapping yourself around the brand in terms of the capabilities that you can bring to them. So it's it's providing that innovation and and I'll use the word personalization and use of variable content and use of data in a way that they have confidence in your capability because it it is only going one way. The days of producing thousands and thousands of units of one standard product have gone out the door, I think. And and that doesn't mean everything's driving to digital print. It's not about that, but it's about you as the printer being an enabler of the new digital call it tsunami platform or whatever it is. It's your your position in the supply chain is radically changing. And you have to be able to collaborate with the marketing teams and the tech teams to bring that to bear. You have to be able to work with kind of the compliance and regulatory and safety guys around track and trace and anti-counterfeit and complying with regulation, and you have to be able to also bring all of that sustainability knowledge to bear as well and make sure that you know these customers aren't greenwashing that their product is true to what they say, which is is a big area where a lot of brands have been getting caught lately. Um you know, they they are it sounds very grand. I know I'm a marketing person, but they are at the the interface of kind of the physical and the digital world. And I I think we all fall into it. We fall into this sort of we're from an old industry with traditional values and prints a bit of a black art, but actually now it's so technology and innovation driven. We should be marketing that as an industry that you know we're we're We're right at the forefront of delivering the next generation of of packaging connectivity and smart packaging and what this can do for to tomorrow's consumer, never mind today. So yeah, it's exciting.
SPEAKER_01:It is exciting. And uh it seems to me that it's about knowledge and acquiring knowledge and learning and really understanding the language. I mean, to be fair, I'll be honest. That before going to the IA.tt's event and connected packaging, I had a vague idea, and GS1 had a vague idea. Um, but I didn't know. I didn't know. But actually learning, you're like, ah, I can piece it together now, I understand it. It makes a lot of strategic sense.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And like you say, there's the storytelling potential, but there's actually a compliance need. So there's twin forces there, and then you've got consumer behaviour.
SPEAKER_03:So it's like it is a lot of tick boxes. That I think that's the point, and that's why it will flow. It's it's not you quite often see, I don't know, let me take an awful example, but for years and years and years, people have been developing sensors for packaging that tell you there's oxygen in the pack that shouldn't be there, or you know, if the if the pack's going off or whatever. Those sorts of things tick a box for a part of the supply chain. And invariably, you know, if I'm honest, the brand doesn't want to tell the consumer the stuff's gone off because they just want to get it sold off shelf. The retailer's not interested in paying for it, it affects the right. You know, there's not many things that have come to market that tick boxes right the way through the value chain of what's going on. And this feels like it does. It feels like it enables, it enables marketing, it enables compliance, it enables ease of use, it enables convenience, it enables inspiration, excitement, it enables authenticity. It's just tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick in the in the way, and it's easy to apply. It's not, it's not a cost to apply to the pack. Yes, there's a cost to the digital platform that's put behind it, i.e., the website or the portal or the link to whatever it is that's gonna happen. But when you've got something that has zero added cost on pack and is ticking a zillion boxes, it's gonna fly. You know, there is no, there's no question. And I think the only question I would have is, you know, what does it look like in another 10 years from now? I suspect there's gonna be all sorts of 3D things bouncing out of packs or you know, even more kind of inspirational connectivity that we don't even can't even imagine at the moment. But as a technology coming to market and linking all the different facets of what goes on actually in packaging today is is fascinating, absolutely fascinating.
SPEAKER_01:And if at if at the very least for a printer, the printers it's about understanding being conversant with the language and being a partner-oriented kind of mindset business, then like you say, it's not re-engineering the printing business, is it? It's not in quite you know you're not necessarily investing in technology that might deliver, it's actually you've got it already.
SPEAKER_03:Correct. And but but I think in the way that you position your business, in the way that you sell what you do, in the way that you market your business to your clients, you've got to be digitally savvy. And I think that's the bit that worries me slightly. In you know, I was once told by a boss years ago, you know, you should go to bed every night having learned something every day. And if you didn't, well, it was a bit of a waste of a day. And I think, and again, yeah, sorry, it's all these cliched statements, but there's been zillions of studies done on leadership and what makes certain people stand out in the world, and other people just kind of tick along. And there is no, you know, is it a nature nurture thing? How does that work? And the only common denominator they can find amongst great leaders is a commitment to learning. And I think that's actually gonna make the difference to printers today and and packaging converters in them being successful. You've got to learn about this stuff, you've got to be savvy about the vernacular and the semantics that are being used, you've got to be up to date with what technologies are coming down the pipe that the brands are going to want to integrate into their packaging. You've got to be on it. That's the best way to describe it. You know, you've got to understand it. Doesn't mean that you're doing anything with it day to day. But when your brand comes to you and they've got a new launch of, I don't know, pet food snacks, you're the one that should be coming to the table saying, have we thought about, have we thought about, have we thought about, in order for them to get the value that you're bringing to their value chain. And I'm not saying anybody can print, I'm certainly not. The technology we have in print is amazing and the commitment that the guys have is wonderful. But you know, the brands are in a digital world now with augmented reality and you know, using AI and smart labels and NFC and using the QR code to enable them to communicate directly one-on-one to the to the individual consumer. And I think the more the print industry can understand that and connect the value of what they're doing with that, the more they're likely to grow their businesses and be successful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it's it's about being a strategic partner again, isn't it? And or behaving like one and speaking the same language, presenting yourself like one, being a creative like the brand that you're working with. And I know that's difficult because sometimes I guess the dynamic could be about price. So you're not having those kind of discussions. But anyway, the opportunity is there for those that change it, the way they present and tell their own stories. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Sorry to overspeak. You might it's it frequently is about price, and I think that's the frustration for a lot of suppliers, you know, that they are a squeezed middle between the brand and the retailer or you know, the brand and the consumer. And I get that, it's it's horrible. And and as I mentioned at the outset of the discussion, cost out is absolutely front and centre at the moment, again, which is is really, really frustrating. But this stuff doesn't have to cost actually having the right narrative in the way that you present what you do, having that insight to what's coming down the pipe in terms of tech and digital, just gives those brands confidence in you as a partner and a strategic partner as you outlined.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think it's if if you speak in the same language, that builds trust.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:If you're speaking in a technical language or you're just not you're transacting, it's okay, but it doesn't build that level of trust and that sense of, oh, we're in this together. And I think that's it's it's subtle in a way, but it's huge in another way, isn't it?
SPEAKER_03:Well it actually takes us full circle to why my business grew was because I was trusted because you didn't need to explain the innards of a flexo press to me in order for me to talk about your latest technicalization. It it does, it just creates a natural confidence and comfort that you get my world.
SPEAKER_01:Um where I need to go. Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Well, thank you. That that kind of um rounds it off really nicely. I appreciate you joining the call and um for today's podcast. And also um fascinating to hear your views on things and how the market's developing and changing and massively different to a couple of years ago, is that like the speed of change continues to accelerate and um it's about um state of mind by the sound of it, mindset.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for seeing me again. Really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content coming up. And visit futureprint.tech for the latest news, partner interviews, in depth industry research, and to catch up on content from Futureprint events. We'll see you next time on the Futureprint Podcast.
