FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#304 - If You Cannot Measure It, You Cannot Control It: Why UV measurement is becoming mission-critical for industrial print
In this episode of the FuturePrint Podcast, Frazer Chesterman speaks with Jim Raymont, Director of Sales at EIT 2.0, and PK Swain, Chief Operating Officer, to explore the critical role UV measurement plays in modern industrial inkjet manufacturing. As EIT 2.0 prepares to exhibit at FuturePrint Industrial Print Munich, the conversation goes deep into the practical realities of curing, process control and efficiency on the production floor.
Jim explains how EIT 2.0, formed in 2022 as a specialist offshoot of the original EIT, builds on nearly four decades of UV measurement expertise. PK brings additional perspective from senior leadership roles at major UV source manufacturers, offering insight into both the technology and business impact of getting curing right - or wrong.
Together, they highlight a recurring challenge across the industry: when curing problems arise, finger-pointing often replaces diagnostics. EIT’s instruments act as a neutral communication tool, helping source suppliers, formulators and end users establish clear process windows and quickly identify issues before scrap, downtime and cost escalate.
The discussion also tackles common misconceptions around UV LED curing. While LEDs are stable and energy efficient, they still degrade over time and are vulnerable to real-world production variables - contamination, speed changes and incorrect settings. Measuring UV output is the only way to maintain control.
The episode closes with a look at sustainability, LED adoption and why UV measurement should start at process development - not when problems occur. A must-listen for anyone serious about industrial print performance.
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FuturePrint TECH: Industrial Print: 21-22 January '26, Munich, Germany
Well, hi there. Welcome to this week's Future Print podcast. And I'm very pleased to have two guests with me, two new guests, never done a podcast with us before, so it's interesting for us to hear what they have to say. It's a new company that was working with us and will be exhibiting and um and showing their wares in Munich in January. The company is EIT 20 or 20. You can explain more, guys. I've got Jim and PK with me. I'm going to get them to introduce themselves and then we'll get into some questions. Jim, just kick off by just saying who you are. Tell us a bit about the company.
SPEAKER_01:My name is Jim Raymond. I'm director of sales for EIT 2.0. Been with the company for 33 years. Been involved with uh measurement for most of that time, UV measurement for most of that time. EIT 2.0 is an offshoot of the original EIT. It was formed in uh 2022 to focus on UV measurement and a few of our other instruments. Prior to that, we were part of an electronics manufacturing services company, but we split off and have focused on UV measurement then uh since 2022. Yep. We have sold our UV measurement products since the mid-1980s. Oh wow. So we have quite a bit of experience with uh UV measurement.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep. Jim, thank you for that. Nice introduction. Um, and let's ask PK uh tell us a bit about you and tell us a little bit about your role at the organization.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, Freder. Thanks, Jim. Uh, I'm PK Swine. I joined EIT only three years ago, not 33 years ago. So um, but I've been in the UV industry for uh 20 odd years. Uh uh I work at EIT as the chief operating officer. Uh uh before joining EIT three years ago, I worked for uh some large uh uh UV source manufacturing companies like Horace and uh Fusion UV, uh who are industry leaders. So I understand the technology a little bit. I have uh uh in Horace and uh Fusion, I served as their CTO and CEO. So I sort of understand the business aspect a little bit as well. So uh excited to be part of this conversation today. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant, brilliant. Thank you very much for that. Gives us a good bit of insight into the company. Um, just uh for anyone who's kind of thinking, why why is this why is this so important? Why is measuring UV so important? Uh and why is it so relevant to the market that we're involved in with sort of industrial inkjet manufacturing technologies? Why is it a crucial factor, Jim?
SPEAKER_01:The the reason why it's important is uh for measurement, we have to save time and money. Uh we sell instruments that allow people to be more efficient, more productive, reduce the scrap. Anytime you measure something, you're able to control it. Anytime you control it, then you're able to save time and save money. Everything we do is is driven for efficiency, cost savings, as well as uh time savings.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So PK, did you want to add anything to us uh just to that?
SPEAKER_02:No, I think that's fundamentally from a business side, that's uh uh every business wants to save time and money. I think that's the motivation. And um uh philosophically, we uh uh we believe uh uh what Lord Kelvin said uh 200 years ago, what you can't measure, you can't control. It's very powerful, and we literally believe in that uh principle, and we design our instrument so that end users can use it uh and we educate them to make sure they make sense out of it. And that's fundamentally the reason you use it to make sure you give highest quality product to your customer and in the process save time and money, and that's as basic as that.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, yeah, and obviously we'll talk more about the efficiencies in a moment and and you know the argument of sustainability and that sort of thing. But I just want to get my head around how this fits into a piece of technology. How does that work when someone comes along? You know, when you say to someone, look, we think it's important to measure here. This is why. How does it fit into the system?
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh, from our standpoint, we are a communication tool. We are connecting the source supplier, whether it be LED or mercury, we're connecting the formulator that's producing the ink, the coating, the adhesive, or resin, and we're connecting the end user. So often in UV curing, if something doesn't work, there tends to be finger pointing. The formulator gets blamed first, then second in that uh chain is the the ink supplier or the uh equipment supplier, excuse me. Then finally, we may get to call third that says, Hey, your instrument's no good. So by establishing a process window before they begin uh production, we have a target. We know what we need in terms of the UV intensity as well as the time integration or the the irradiance and the energy density, and there's targets to be met. When things change with the source or things change with the process conditions, use of our instruments can quickly get you back to where you need to be so you're producing good quality products.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's that's pretty crucial, isn't it, really?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean that makes a massive difference. If if you're not your technology's not quite operating at that efficiency, then you know you've got costs, you've got wastage, there's lots of things. PK, did you want to add something there?
SPEAKER_02:No, I think Jim Hitman uh hit it right there. Uh the only thing I've noticed is uh um a lot of customer, I mean think about this, Treasure. When you make a huge investment, uh uh you are expecting certain outcome for that. Uh and people, most customers don't get upset if something failed to work, uh, but they get upset when they don't know how to fix it or how to get back and running again, right? A lot of time they're they're not experts, they're all in the disarray, and their uh first instinct is to call the formulator. They think oh, the ink is dry. Uh, ink did not dry. So uh if they're a tool to do the uh uh analysis or diagnostics quickly, uh and we come right there, hey, run an EIT instrument and see whether your lamp was even on or lamp was in the right spec, I think 80, 60, 70, 80 percent of the time that happens to be the case, which causes the uh the systems to fail. If they know that, they can good uh chance they can fix it, or they can at least go talk to the right person instead of wasting their time. I think uh the value that EIT brings really is reducing the time when systems are down and you need to bring that up, and that is like uh wasting money. I think we really come right there, and that's very valuable. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Do you um just out of curiosity, uh do you work very closely with the you know the U of V curing companies, the the manufacturers, do they do they work closely with you? I know uh PK, you worked for Horace before. Do you work with the other major players?
SPEAKER_01:We try to be the we try to be the United Nations in terms of working with everybody. We uh work with a lot of the source suppliers, we work with formulators. Yep. Oftentimes the formulators are with customers uh the most frequently because they've got a vested interest if they're in there every week uh making sure that their inch or coding works. So they all of these people in the uh supply chain uh work with us and work with our instruments in order to uh make sure that the end user is efficiently uh processing UV.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. When um just out of curiosity, so in the perfect world, when do you measure? When is it that you guys feel you should be in there?
SPEAKER_01:You you don't the when you don't want to measure is you don't want to call us when you have a problem. We get calls almost we get calls probably weekly. Can you overnight a radiometer? My process is not working. Yeah, right? By then the the the horse has already gotten out of the barn and escaped.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So we encourage people to work with us at the beginning when they're developing their process, when they're selecting the source, whether it be an LED or a broadband source, so that you optimize that source, and then work together with the formulator, with the equipment supplier, maybe even the substrate supplier, so you get the right uh film or whatever you're producing, and then establish that before you go into production.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Did you want to add to that?
SPEAKER_02:No, no, that's perfect. I think that's exactly where we would like people to uh get talked to us, and uh and we are very eager and happy to help them. But a lot of time uh if people did not know about EIT and already are doing, uh there's uh the not a uh nothing uh uh worse than not doing anything. Just call us now. Say we we have been doing it for two years. We can help you benchmark what you have been doing, what are you doing right? What are you doing wrong? How could you think make things better? We are we're very happy to uh hel help you any time of the spectrum, but the ideal time is in the beginning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Why do you think um people might choose or or you know not think of this beforehand? Why is it is it because they kind of they think, well, you know, LED, we don't need to measure, we don't, we just you know it's gonna run forever, it's gonna be forever. So so what is it? What's kind of what's driving people to use it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's it. That's a very insightful question, Fajor. We we hear that a lot these days. Uh um, and again, it's again not uh anybody's fault. Uh, LEDs are inherently a very good technology, they're very uh uh powerful, they're solid state, longer life, and you look up your head, uh, probably 99% chance your house headlights are all LED, right? So they're very good. But uh the end of the day, they're electronic uh semiconductor devices, and uh every everything degrades uh and decays with time. So do LEDs, and particularly UV LEDs. So industrial process uh is all about process control, where we started our conversation. So uh LED guys spec, LED manufacturer spells something called L70, meaning 70% of the output will be lost in X period of time. Now, if the output falls below that, obviously it is going to impact your curing. And uh how do you know that? So you you measure it, and that's where we come in. But unfortunately, there is a lot of misconception uh uh being uh uh propagated in the industry. Oh, yeah, I have an LED lamp, it's so good, I don't need to measure it. I think that's unfortunate. I think uh we try to educate everybody. LEDs are stable, they're very good, but they do degrade. You need to measure it. It's not only LED degrading fresh, that is only to me 20% of the problem. 90% of the problem, 80% of the problem I have seen is not the LEDs, it's the ink flash on the window of the lab. There is a paper got caught in the middle blocking the UV light. There are 10 different regions I can I can envision in front of me where the light is not hitting the the target, and uh LEDs are perfectly fine. Uh, how do you know that? You've got to start measuring it. I think uh that's where I think a lot more education is to be done, and individuals need to be very careful not to just listen blindly and think, hey, I got LED, I don't need to measure. Jim, you can add more.
SPEAKER_01:The the other thing I would add, you know, LEDs are stable, and there can be things where the course window does get dirty, as PK mentioned. The other factor that comes in there, sometimes your production people will change the parameters, they change the speed, they change the applied power to the LED. Yeah, all of these things can impact that. The other thing with uh LEDs as well as broadband, people will look at how bright that light is, but you're seeing visible light, you're not seeing the UV, and the UV is needed then to polymerize the ink decoding or the adhesive.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, yep. So there is uh there is a value in measuring because you can't, you know, you can't tell whether it's degrading or not, can you? The measurement really gives you a proper indication.
SPEAKER_01:We do have people that don't always see the value of the measurement. Unfortunately, there's an event where they usually cost them, it could be thousands of dollars that where they have scrap, and then they they come around and say, I think we need to measure here in order to avoid this in the future.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right. So um for anyone who's thinking, oh, you know, this this could be really relevant to us, we really need to do this. I I've got absolutely no idea what the the financial outlay for this is. How does it work? How do you how do you work with a customer?
SPEAKER_01:We we first of all try to establish what type of source they have. We then also have to uh analyze how much space they have. Do they have the room to put a radiometer through?
SPEAKER_00:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:We're also concerned with the production speed. Obviously, if you're going a thousand feet per minute versus 20 feet per minute, we're gonna need an instrument with a little bit higher sample rate. We also want to determine how many lamps you have. We do have products that can go through and under 10 LEDs, and then you have the ability to look at each individual LED with our software package, so you can have very targeted, very efficient maintenance versus getting one number for all 10 LEDs. So it's a matter of communication, and then we can suggest a product, and then either uh working with us or through our extensive uh worldwide distributor and rep network, have somebody come out and then do a demonstration.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, sure. And obviously, uh you two are based in the US, but you got representation in Europe.
SPEAKER_01:Representation in Europe. We also have a uh service center based in Denmark. So we have uh pretty good covers throughout Europe and then the rest of the world.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant, brilliant. And we're obviously looking forward to seeing you guys in Munich and uh hoping that uh to find out a little bit more. Um, certainly because it's you know, it's interesting what you're talking about. It's an area that uh perhaps we haven't focused on ourselves so much, but as you say, it's quite important, isn't it? You know, there's a sort of efficiency argument. I guess there's also a sustainability argument, is there?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think UV is inherently sustainable. Yep. Um, you're using, especially in Europe with the energy costs. Yep, uh, UV LEDs are can be more efficient with energy costs. They tend to uh I wouldn't say instant on, but they don't have to be on as long as a broadband source to warm up. So there's some advantages there. The the thing to understand though, LEDs are inherently different than a mercury broadband source. Yeah, of course. And uh one of the analogies we use is you just can't take that mercury source off and put an LED on unless you test it and make sure that the the formulation is going to work well with the LED.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Gentlemen, now Freddy, if I just one other comment, uh LEDs also do not have do not have mercury, uh, which has been a a sort of pain point for the industry for years, decades. And um Europe particularly is uh very uh progressive on that front. So LED clearly brings the mercury-free notions to it, uh which is obviously uh jibes very well with the sustainability story. Yeah. And um and the one last comment we also noticed a lot of people have been using uh mercury-based lamp for uh years, decades, and they don't understand that instrumentation you need to measure LEDs are fundamentally very different than a broadband. So they would use a broadband mercury uh instrument to measure LED, and they will get a reading, and that reading is erroneous up to 90 percent. So, and this will be completely misleading. So that's something Jim has spoken multiple times in conferences, backed up by solid experimental data. So that's something for NDGO to be aware. There are dedicated instruments for mercury and dedicated instruments for broadband. You cannot interchange them. Yeah, if you do, you'll get a reading, but that like reading uh up to 90% uh off, and it will vary from one LED system to another LED system significantly. So that's just I thought I'll uh put that in to be aware of that.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. And and obviously, uh you guys will be speaking in Munich, so I'm sure, Jim, you're gonna elucidate a bit more on this. Sure. And uh if people are interested in finding out more, the two of you, I believe, will be in Munich. Uh so you'll be manning your stand there, spending some time with us. Um, we've already got about 300 people registered, so we're really looking forward to that event and uh looking forward to seeing both of you in Munich in January. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate the uh conversation, finding out a little bit more. Jim, PK, have a good weekend. Take care. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you.
