FuturePrint Podcast
FuturePrint is dedicated to and passionate about the power of print technology to enable new opportunities and create new value. This pod features deep-dive discussions with the people behind the tech as well as market analysis, trends, marketing and storytelling!
FuturePrint Podcast
#317 - When Packaging Talks Back ep#1
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
This episode is 1 of 2. 'When Packaging Talks Back' is followed directly after for episode 2 by 'When Packaging Talks Back: Will Print Listen'?
Packaging used to be a dead end for brand relationships. Now it’s becoming the front door. We sit down with keynote speaker Güneri Tugcu in the first of a 2 part podcast, to unpack how connected packaging turns every product into a digital touchpoint that delivers utility, trust and measurable outcomes long after checkout. From post‑COVID shifts in shopper behaviour to the rise of QR‑powered journeys, we get practical on what scales, what fails and how to build value that keeps customers scanning.
We dig into the standards making this real: GS1 Digital Link and Project Sunrise 2027, which aim to replace the traditional barcode with a single “master code” that serves retailers and consumers alike. That change unlocks Digital Product Passports, granular traceability, anti‑counterfeit checks that feel like service rather than suspicion, and dynamic content shaped by context. Gunnary shares hard‑won lessons from SGK, Digimarc and Amazon, showing how convenience, not copy, sets expectations—and why serialisation and identity are now the backbone of loyalty, warranty, resale and recycling.
The conversation also tackles ownership and design. Retailers still control the aisle, but brands can earn parallel, permission‑based relationships by respecting privacy, offering clear benefits and making tasks effortless—think instant warranty registration instead of hunting for old receipts. In textiles and fashion, looming regulations will force item‑level IDs across the board, pushing converters, brands, platforms and retailers to orchestrate together. The dividing line ahead is clear: campaign thinking that spikes and fades versus infrastructure thinking that compounds insight and lifetime value.
Ready to turn print into a persistent, digital channel? Listen now, share with a colleague who needs to hear it, and subscribe for future conversations. If this helped you rethink packaging, leave a quick review—it helps more people discover the show.
Listen on:
Apple Podcast
Google Podcast
Spotify
What is FuturePrint?
FuturePrint is a digital and in person platform and community dedicated to future print technology. Over 20,000 people per month read our articles, listen to our podcasts, view our TV features, click on our e-newsletters and attend our in-person and virtual events.
We hope to see you at one of our future in-person events:
FuturePrint Packaging, Labels & DTS, 29-30 September '26, Valencia, Spain
FuturePrint Leaders Summit, 29 September '26, Valencia, Spain
FuturePrint Industrial Print, 14-15 April '27, Munich, Germany
Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, celebrating print technology and the people behind it.
SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the latest episode of the Future Print Podcast. Delighted to have with me one of our keynote speakers at the Future Print Industrial Print event in Munich. Welcome to the Future Print Podcast, Gunnery Tukku. Happy to have you with us. Gunnary um leads RPAC, has a fantastic um background of experience within really interesting fields around connected packaging, and he can explain much more and far more far more fluently than than I can. And we're going to have a chat around some of the themes of his talk and some of the changes and trends and opportunities. So welcome, Gunnary, to the Future Foot Podcast. Could you start by perhaps giving us a little bit of an introduction about yourself? I've given you an overview there, but um you could give us a bit of insight into how you arrived to doing what you do now.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. And first of all, Marcus, thanks for having me. Um, it's been uh a pleasure to meet you in person, finally, at the last Future Print 2026, where I was able to contribute a keynote to the overall success at this amazing venue uh and the amazing content and speakers there. So um this is something I've been really looking forward to for um and and have this chat with you. So thank you. Um, just quickly um on my profile is I've been 26 years in the industry now, working with some of the world's biggest brands across multiple industries, helping them navigate digital transformation, brand innovation, and evolving relationship between physical products and especially digital experiences. Um brands want to be closer to consumers, but there are also obstacles in regards to credibility, scalability, and operational, um, especially sustainability now, something we'll dive into either so. But um, yeah, I'm leading the global partnership ecosystem at RPEC and looking forward for this conversation. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, great. And then you gave a great talk, so I appreciate that. And I I know we're gonna we're in for some really interesting sort of insight going forward. Um, obviously, you've spent quite a lot of your career positioned, I suppose, at the intersection of digital transformation, connected merchandise and brand innovation. What what problem were brands failing to solve back then that they're still struggling with today? So often the problems don't get solved immediately. But yeah, give us a bit of a feel for what problems, how the problems have changed or if they have even changed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I think they have evolved, so to say, um, in a positive and a negative way. I think for for many years and decades, maybe um the point of sale has been the hotspot, right? You wanted to position your product on the shelf, uh, have nice displays and try to attract and make people stand, stop, watch the displays and buy your products. Uh, what we have seen is the big change uh or shift, so to say, with COVID. People were uh not allowed to stand, uh spend so much time in the grocery store, supermarkets, etc. So, and I think if you look at now with millennials, Gen Z's, and younger generations and the change of habit, people just don't spend as much time at the point of sale. And what brands really lack for for many years, maybe even always have lacked, is really the they don't have a scalable, direct, and measurable relationship with consumers after the point of sale, right? You might have certain influence on shelf in the store on the aisle, but what happens afterwards? Uh, and and that's something where you could still say brands have always been blind after checkout, right? Um, you're assuming something, you're spending money on surveys, agency, agent, um, agencies, and all that stuff. Um, to get some sort of data, you pay a crazy amount of money and you still don't really have specific detailed data. So um, and the physical product has, you know, pretty much historically been a dead end. Um, and if you look at the a lot of the brand engagements, they build incredible marketing uh engines, but not really feedback loops. Like, where do consumers go? What how do they share feedback? Do they have to wait for a huge escalation, something really bad about the product to reach out to you, or do you really want to know? Do they like it? You know, there's so much intel that is lost in this relationship. And I think that's that's the biggest challenge is really to struggle to connect, let's say, identity, authenticity, and engagement into one experience. And that is easier today than it has ever been before.
SPEAKER_00:It's easier today, but it still requires strategy and implementation, and it's quite significant. By the way, I noticed or I on on LinkedIn, somebody I follow shared that the Amazon had an experience um or or a trial, I guess, of a of stores that you could just walk in and walk out and not interact with people. That seems to have been a well a failure, frankly. It's not it's not going forward. So it's still that human need to actually go to a store and interact.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. And um you're referring to the just walk out uh technology, um, which is amazing. I I I had the uh the the honor and and I was lucky enough to go into a few of them, and you literally went to your your phone at the beginning or it detected it, and then you just walked in. It chose the items, numerous items, and you could literally just walk out, and it was accurate, scary accurate. Um more like a convenience store, like it's more like a type of 7-Eleven. It's not your next Aldi Little Tesco um grocery market. It's not the size, it doesn't have the variety of products. Because quite frankly, uh without getting too much into it, it's it's also the cost, like sensors, weight measuring, cameras, AI, machine learning. I mean, there was pretty much everything included in that. And just scaling that, and especially for us here in Europe with GDPR and you know a certain different, let's say, level of data protection needs. Um, I think that's that's where solutions like this pretty much end at a wall uh in regards to scalability. And if you look at it, it it's always been in the past years the limit limitation was tech and cost. And what you see today, the big difference is it's today's challenge is mindset and integration.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and also I think shopper, the shopper experience. I I think they yeah, some of the feedback was that that because there wasn't really much of an experience, and equally it was a sort of uh awkwardness almost about you know what do I do?
SPEAKER_02:Of course, you feel like you're stealing something, it's scary.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. But no, it it it it was a great concept, and I guess a great showcase of the possibilities of the technology. That was the success of it.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. And I think that's yeah, exactly. I think that's what you put need to put in perspective is uh big tech companies like Amazon at the forefront of innovation, they show you what's possible. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the solution, and usually what what you know history has shown it's a mix of different things that end up being something scalable and convenient, but it just shows you what's possible with technology. And again, I think today's challenge is really about uh mindset and integration and less on cost because the technology is there, the costs are getting less, and uh now it's about really adapting to it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. A very interesting um experiment, though. So like you say, showcasing the potential and um and so on. It's obviously you mentioned connected packaging, which um I've learned more about over the last year. Um, the potential's incredible, it's often talked about, but sometimes not really that well understood. Could you, in simple terms, explain what it it unlocks for brands that perhaps traditional packaging just can't?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and this is a good start because um there's always also the term as intelligent and smart packaging. Uh now you can argue about it. I personally don't think there's anything smart or intelligent about packaging. You could say there's DNAFC when there's two-way communication and sensors. That's maybe something where we could find a compromise. But to me, it's always been connected packaging because um what it literally does is it turns a physical product packaging into a digital touch point and data trigger, right? Because packaging, if you look at it, and you know, working two decades in that industry is it's always been about protecting the product, and then it shifted towards having nice pictures on it and convincing people to buy it. But now it's it's really become over the past years a media channel. You already paid for it, right? I mean, you invested into the design, the pre-press, the printing, the logistics to it. And now you have pretty much a persistent bridge between physical and digital, and the packaging becomes the login for consumers, which we're still not utilizing, right? Again, we're talking about people spending less time in a POS, spending more time at home. You're competing against social media, TikTok, average time span of what, 30 seconds maybe. Um and who's watching TV and ads anymore? You know, Super Bowl ads are nice, definitely creative, but who's really enjoying and watching TV ads anymore? And the numbers are still there, it's still a strong uh channel, but now you can actually convince someone with good content, with relevant context to sit at the couch and scan a product to engage with you, convince them for customer loyalty, sign up for lottery, get personalized data. There's so much you can do. And yes, it does require a certain effort and transparency because why should I? And that's always the question you should ask yourself. And say customer obsessionists, always think about the customer that can actually become the only channel that reaches 100% of buyers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and and and it's that kind of um power that I think still to be unlocked with potential of connective packaging. You mentioned you mentioned it's almost a storytelling device, it's uh a practical device, it's it's it's uh increasingly, I think, going to need to store much more granular information about the you know, the origin of the product, how it was made, in which country, all of this. And I guess that's that's um an exciting, but uh potentially for brands, they have to get their head around this, don't they? That has to be something they they look to exploit and integrate. It's is is the legit. I know I know GS1's a thing that's starting to come into play and and and uh uh as and and QR codes are becoming more and more uh yeah evident. Are we at the start of a tipping point for connected packaging, do you think?
SPEAKER_02:I think now we are indeed, because now there is a certain pressure, which always is unfortunately the best uh driver for transformation, right? Um while tradition packaging communicates, connecting packaging interacts. And um what you're referring to most likely is the GS1 digital link standard, first of all, which basically now puts up a language out there that we all industry can in within the industry can use that gives us a standard, which is really important because that's that's the foundation of everything. And then uh, you know, with the digital product passport, um, other regulations kicking in for different reasons and different industries, but especially with a project called Project Sunrise initiated by GS1 and to switch from the classic barcode, GTIN, EIN code that we all know, uh hard to print, but good to measure in regards to quality, is shifting. Um, there's the ambitious goal of Project Sunrise 2027 by GS1, starting to switch from the barcodes, EIN, GTINs, towards the QR code on the pack that does the same job at much smaller scale space. And you mentioned packaging, you know, and all the information. I mean, we all know there's limited estate on a packaging, right? Procurement will always try to put another language on it so they don't have to print as much and can you know distribute the products in more countries and regions. And the space for kosher, halal, vegan, vegetarian, sugar-free, fat-free, and all these, you know, good things, bad things, or whatever you want to promote is just limited on a packaging. It's just by nature, uh, by size of product, printing technology, is there's limitations. And the QR code and something like Project Sunrise, where retail will start using the QR code to scan out, just enables you to have one magical master code that does all of that. You could use it at retail for retailers to scan efficiently, quick, scalable, and then consumers can scan the very same code for ingredients, recipes, customer loyalty, couponing, gamification, ah, the digital product passport. And I think that's something that will completely change uh the conversations around connected packaging from you know a nice to have to a why didn't we do this so far? And yet, um, and again, like many times in our industries, it's based on regulation and pressure.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, it's the pressures to change and the incentives in order to do that. And I guess, like anything when one or two brands make that shift and gain performance advantage, everybody else will follow, and there's also regulation and standards that are coming together, it appears. Looking back at your just sort of taking a step back a bit, you've worked at SGK, Digimark, Amazon, and now you lead the global partnerships at RPAC. How has your perspective on brand consumer relationships changed across these very different organizations and over time? And and I guess factoring in connected packaging, you've all almost already answered it in a way that the digitalization of it of life must be a key component as to how that's changed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, um, it's kind of like when when I look at it from from an angle of where you know the ecosystem from creative execution to the identity layer, marketplace reality, and then connected merchandise ecosystem. That's kind of like where we are. And it sounds very complicated, but if I just break it down, at SGK, I learned how packaging is built under real-world constraints, right? It's not like on your screen. That doesn't work, it's not printable, it's not feasible, it's too expensive. Um, and it's all about scale. We're talking about groceries, right? Very price-sensitive industry because we all obviously as consumers don't want to spend more than we have to. So price is always a big driver. At Digimark, I saw what happens when identity becomes embedded into the product, right? We had Project Holy Grail still ongoing, uh, potential game shifter for recycling and uh sustainability, where connected packaging actually enables a whole new channel. Um, and at Amazon, Amazon taught me that consumer expectations are shaped by convenience, not brand storytelling. It's always about the customer obsession. And I think, quite frankly, when I talk to brands at conferences or in person at workshops, no matter how big or small, how intimate, it's sometimes the bills thing part is really what is your customer actually wanting? Like what's your customer obsession? It's not what marketing thinks, it's not what supply chain wants or legal things, it's what your consumers want. And that's something something a lot of brands lose focus on. And the beauty at RPEC is that uh it put me in a new challenge because it's more textile and fashion-driven, which by coincidence is also due with the biggest impact because digital product passport is kicking in by 2027. Literally means every sock, box of shirts, bags, sneakers will have to have a digital serialized ID. So that's where we are now, right? And see the full ecosystem. Brands, retailers, converters, tech platforms, they all need to orchestrate. Like they need to work together because we're talking now about supply chain traceability from the cotton, the leather on the farm all the way to production, distribution centers, retail, inventory management, theft protection, self-scanning to consumers. And now with the new generations, it doesn't stop there. It's now about recycling, reselling, right? If you look at platforms like Vintage, uh Poshmark, the generations now they want to buy something that's still good, and that's right, instead of you know trashing it and creating more waste. So uh the whole storyline just becomes bigger and bigger, especially for repression now, but also unlocking a whole new way of business for everyone involved.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, it's it sounds like quite revolutionary, and that I guess the plates are moving and and and so on, and that you mentioned, didn't you, there in terms of converters, retailers, brands. There's a there's a number of moving um variables there. Um it kind of made me think really, who owns the power in that, really? We often think the brands do, but actually retailers are incredibly powerful, uh aren't they? And they have a relationship with the end consumer that may be a bit more but kind of tilted towards power-wise to them. How can connected packaging maybe and these changes you've mentioned realistically help brands reclaim first party data and connection?
SPEAKER_02:There's there's a nice um quote I heard um from someone really um experienced. I can't recall the location, but something like the consumers don't really care about your org chart, but your org chart decides their experience. And I think that's something that needs to change because that's not how it works. And if you look at all the success stories, you know, within the industry, whether it's CPGs, fax, fashion, textiles, uh, consumer electronics, or even in the B2B, um, there's one thing certain, and that's don't overpromise. Um, brands will own the consumer. I think it's really more about brands can earn permission-based relationships with consumers based on need and timing. So um, and retailers, I think, has have been always been something very strong. There was a shift for many, many years where you had this iconic, huge, huge brands with all the power, you know, the times where Pepsi Co and Golola and Mark, it's about Aldi, it's about Little, it's Tesco, it's the retailers. Um, and I think what brands are doing rightfully, and the ones that are not taking actions need to understand it's not about stealing the relationship from retailers, it's about earning a parallel relationships. One doesn't stop the other one, right? And we are very sensitive here in Europe and many other regions as well, in regards to first party data, right? It's um GDPR, it's personal data. We don't want to, we want to know where the data goes, where it's stored, is it on European servers, on US servers? Um, and consumers don't want to give away their personal, intimate, private data for free, obviously, right? They give it for utility, they give it to you because you make them earn their trust. So you give them a good reason. Is it customer loyalty? So I don't let's say you buy a bag or jacket or snook and you give them a good warranty and something happens. Don't ask them to look for the invoice, where did you buy it, when, by whom, at what time, date. Have a customer loyalty when it's in the account, and all they need to say is, Hey, Marcus, this is the item, there's an issue, I'm gonna ship it to you. Please take care of it. That's customer obsession. Make it easy for them and don't ask them to go through 400 different stages of application to claim something that you're promoting actively, right? So, um, and that's where I believe, whether it's the NFC combined with RFID, NFC standalone, or the QR code that we all know, it's not a strategy, it's a value exchange in that strategy. And I think that's something that brands need to understand is um it's not supposed to be like put it on your product and everything changes. It's something that people will get used to, and then there will be more interactions. Make them come back and scan. Because one thing is whether it's your retailer or brand, you don't want them to stop after one scanning. But what is the reason, the incentive for them to scan again after three months, six months, nine months? Maybe it's reselling, maybe it's recycling, maybe it's warranty, maybe you offer them a coupon after one year. So um, just like you treat uh different channels with marketing teams and budget, the connected product slash connected packaging channel is not different. You need to put some thoughts in it and some determination and passion and win customers over time and not stop because you have a one-off campaign that created some attention and then you just drop it and you move on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's interesting because you rewinding to the very beginning, you said you talked around COVID changing things, and um, I think that kind of led to more shopper promiscuity over buying products and so on, less time in the in the environment. And what this does is gives brands a tool and a way to actually reach the consumer because ultimately trust, as you've said a number of times, transparency and to some extent, I suppose brand protection are becoming big issues, aren't they? Um is connected packaging playing a critical role in perhaps combating counterfeiting while also building that trust that's so important, as you put it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, one thing we discuss a lot, and these are difficult conversations because most of the time when you tap into any sort of counterfeiting, authentication, uh brand protection, or product diversion topics, it's with legal people, and they have a different. Sense and different need for the markets. But what I see on really great long-term success stories out there, it's authentication shouldn't feel like a service. Uh, should be more like a service, not a security check. Especially when you look into regions like Asia where even just asking consumers to verify a product when they buy him can lead to people actually not buying him because that implies for them is like, oh, there might be something going on if they ask me to scan. I I'd rather not buy this product, buy a different product. So you're losing customers before they even uh make the intention or confirmation to buy a product. If you flag something because it's copied, it's it's it's not a rate, you can still lead, carefully address this to consumers to maybe check in the next flagship store, send in the product, but without losing their trust and convenience. And I think that's something that's very, very fragile uh between being responsible, which is totally fine from a brand's perspective, but also not lose your customers because we've seen you know huge, um awful um crisis on infant formula in Asia, right? Where babies newborns were dying because of uh you know counterfeit infant formula. I've even seen cases of faking uh or India, right? And you think who the hell is you know faking the detergents? But there's always something where you can scale because the the the less risky to be the product is the ease that interested in them are now uh authentic or email.
SPEAKER_00:So and you also have a podcast um which I've listened to. It's really really interesting, insightful. Have written some great guests on it, and you yourself, of course, share a lot of great insight. Give us um a bit of a uh a background about that, how that came about, and what what the kind of um the vision for it and purpose of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, um sure. And I think in a nutshell, is uh I've been very critical about the idea myself uh until um I was really endorsed and pushed by my manager at Amazon and just go and try it. Because, and you know this probably very well, Marcus, is the some of the best conversations that we are all having within the industry is at a coffee afterward after a keynote, on the sidetrack, having a cigarette outside. That's where people really kind of like open up and you know have this open conversation where you learn something really incredible. And I felt like when you talk to brands throughout the past years, um the lack of understanding is so big, and it's an evidence that we as an industry of experts in different fields are not doing a very good job, right? When you talk to brands today, they still have a lot of questions on where to go, where to start, who to talk to. And I wanted to create a platform where um, in simple terms, some very smart people share exciting um stories, expertise, um, and people can actually listen within an hour and get a very good sense on where to go and who to talk to to solve a big problem. And uh it's been going surprisingly well, to be honest. Um, it's a monthly episode, uh, it's quite a lot of work uh for us, but we are driving it very passionately and we're globally within the top five in this niche, so to say. But what we hear is is a great feedback because people really appreciate people, and and hopefully you'll be one of our guests in upcoming ones as well, is appreciate having great thought leaders just openly and empathically sharing with no sales push or ego drives, um, what's happening industry, why, where, when, and that resonates really well. And um, maybe just to add two things that we've noticed is really um that's the biggest surprise is that everyone agrees on the vision when you talk with them, but nobody agrees on the ownership. The tech is there, as we said you know, numerous times in this episode, but the friction is organizational. So when you talk to the brands, a lot of silo teams are like, yeah, yeah, we need this, but putting them together, getting the commitment, the budgeting, the collaboration, that seems to be actually the biggest uh challenge for most of the brands.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So it's a great way of you discovering huge amounts of um insights from different parts of the world and so on. And it's a very considered, thought-through, um, deep dive, I suppose, isn't it? Enables that kind of deep dive conversation um that you that you're having. And what's what's the podcast podcast called? What's the title of it?
SPEAKER_02:Of course. So it's called Coco, Click Consume, Connect, the Connected Consumers Podcast. Uh, you can find it on Apple Um Podcast Studio on Spotify and Amazon. And um, yeah, feel free to have a listen into it and um get back to us and share your feedback and any ideas you might have as a listener.
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic. So just finishing now, looking ahead the next three to five years, what do you think will separate brands that experiment with connected packaging from those that truly embed it as part of their business strategy?
SPEAKER_02:If I have to if I would have to put it in one sentence, I would say it's a difference between campaign mindset and an infrastructure mindset, to be honest. Move away from you know, um, creating a one-off as mentioned before, and then you know, the marketing people get promoted, they move on, and your connected relationship with the consumers. And great. But scaling is hard. You know, there's it's similar to what Elon Musk said. Like building a concept car is easy, but scaling in a factory environment, that's the hardest thing in the world. And I think that's part creating a digital identity where you stay connected with consumers. I think that's the biggest um hurdle for many. But once you are transparent and honest about it, um consumers will uh recognize it and stay connected, and connected products will become a part of your operational model and your identity instead of a marketing tool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and I can see that becoming a more and more of a thing where brands have direct contact with buyers, and what a fantastic opportunity that that that is for them. So, listen, thanks so much for joining. Really interesting and very useful uh level of insight into the work, the changing world that we're that we're inhabited and where print technology plays a role. But um often we don't get to think of upstream in a way, I think, in terms of what's going on. So I really appreciate that from you. So thank you very much. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you can subscribe now for more great audio content coming up and visit futureprint.tech for the latest news, partner interviews, in depth industry research, and to catch up on content from FuturePrint events. We'll see you next time on the FuturePrint Podcast.
