Engaging with Employment and Personal Injury Expert, Dr. Linsey Willis

When Dr. Linsey Willis took her first expert witness case in 1998, she had no idea it would launch a decades-long career testifying in cases across the United States. 

With refreshing candor and practical wisdom, Dr. Willis reveals what makes for success in the expert witness arena. Her approach combines rigorous ethics with savvy business practices. "Know what you know and know what you don't know," she advises, emphasizing that genuine expertise—not financial motivation—should drive case selection. This philosophy has served her well across numerous plaintiff and defense engagements in human resources, negligent hiring, and employment matters.

The conversation explores critical aspects of expert witnessing that rarely receive attention: how to vet potential cases through detailed attorney interviews, establish clear payment terms ("I make it very clear that I'm not going to chase down money"), and prepare thoroughly for challenging depositions. Dr. Willis shares war stories from seven-hour depositions where opposing counsel deployed intimidation tactics, and explains how she maintained her composure throughout.

For both attorneys seeking experts and professionals considering expert witnessing, this episode offers invaluable insights into creating "bulletproof" reports, navigating attorney relationships, and maintaining ethical standards in a demanding field. Whether you're a seasoned expert or considering your first case, you'll come away with practical strategies for more effective expert testimony.

Transcript

Introduction to Dr. Linsey Willis

Noah Bolmer 0:01

This episode is brought to you by Roundtable Group, the experts on experts. We've been connecting attorneys with experts for over 30 years. Find out more at roundtablegroupcom. Welcome to Engaging Experts. I'm your host, noah Balmer, and today I'm excited to welcome Dr Lindsay Willis to the show. Dr Willis is president of LJ Craig Associates Inc. A management and organizational consulting firm. She's a published author and a certified senior human resources professional. Dr Willis holds a DPA from Nova Southeastern University. Dr Willis, thank you so much for joining me here today on Engaging Experts. Thank you, hello. Let's jump into it. So your background is in public administration and human resources, but how did you first become involved in expert witnessing?

Dr. Linsey Willis 0:50

Well, I was working on my doctorate and somebody asked me if I was interested in doing an expert witness case because they knew somebody that needed somebody. And I said, well, I've never done one before and I was an HR director at the time and it was a pretty clear cut case and I was lucky it was on sexual harassment. They settled the case for a little under a million dollars based on my deposition, and I was like, are you kidding me? And so that's my first case in 1998. I fell into it it.

Noah Bolmer 1:26

So when you fell into it, were you given kind of a rundown on what to expect, what it was going to be like, what the sorts of questioning were going to be, or you just kind of hit the ground running a little bit?

Dr. Linsey Willis 1:32

I hit the ground running.

Noah Bolmer 1:33

So if you could talk to your earlier self, what would you say to help quell some of the new expert witness jitters? What are the sorts of things that new expert witnesses should be advised of during their first couple of engagements?

Dr. Linsey Willis 1:50

They shouldn't take a case unless they feel that they have enough knowledge to be a good expert witness, and they should not just take it to make money. And to be an expert, you need to know to go where to find the information and you need to know what you don't know enough about. And so then, if you need to refresh your memory you know, to verify that you know what you know, and then learn more about what you need to know more about with respect to that particular complaint and all the things that you've been hired to do.

Noah Bolmer 2:27

Sure, do you find that there is sometimes a little bit of difficulty understanding what exactly the scope is of your engagement and knowing what it is that you need to know?

First Expert Witness Experience

Dr. Linsey Willis 2:38

No, because I'm good at knowing what I know and knowing what I don't know. And then I find out as much as I can by interviewing the attorney who calls me. So the attorney tells me what they're looking for, and then I ask questions and I ask them to tell me as much about the case as they can, and you know, and then I decide whether I can help them or not. And then I say, well, I think I can help you, and then I we go back and forth and then I ask more questions and, uh, even kind of strategize a little bit and, um, the majority of times I've talked to a lawyer on the phone, I've gotten the case.

Noah Bolmer 3:15

Well it's. It's certainly the case that engagements are a two-way vetting process, right, you know, making sure that that the attorney feels that you're the right person for the job, but also that this is an attorney that you want to work with. So let's dig into that a little bit. Tell me a little bit about the questions that you're asking, the questions that you like to ask to make sure that you are the right person for the job.

Dr. Linsey Willis 3:38

Well, first of all I started as a plaintiff's expert and then, over the past many years, I was asked to do defense cases, and I only take a defense case if I really think I can defend them, and a lot of times they're really many. The lawyers are kind of like in a quandary or they are almost in a desperate state because they know they don't have a good. They know that the other side has more of a case just based upon reading and knowing things. So I just, you know, I ask about if they have written policies and procedures. I ask them if they have any depositions taken. I ask them, you know, where they are in the case. Are they in the beginning, the middle or the end? You know, I ask them, you them, what documents do they have already? I tell them what more documents they should get if they don't have those, and so it's a back and forth conversation.

Noah Bolmer 4:37

Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about the initial contract. So when you are getting into an expert witness engagement, obviously there's a contract. What are the sorts of terms that you like to have in your engagement letters to make sure that you're protected in case of any number of eventualities? Do you like to take a retainer? Do you work on a project rate or perhaps an hourly rate? How do you structure your agreements?

Dr. Linsey Willis 5:05

I work on a retainer and I say this is what for 16 hours, and then after that I will either bill, you know, eight hour increments, you know, and sometimes we modify it and then I charge note what I'm going to charge for travel time which I don't charge, what charge which most experts charge, and, uh, ask them to sign it and never had a problem with anybody signing any contract, you know and indicating that I don't, they don't get their final report until I get paid.

Dr. Linsey Willis 5:40

Um, because I've I've been stiffed a few times by a few lawyers where they don't want to pay you the rest of what your bill is, for whatever reason. It hasn't happened that many times, because then you can just write it off, which is no fun. But you have to be really clear. I make it very clear that I'm not going to chase down money. I make it very clear that I'm not going to chase down money and I tell them up front the report is required and that's for federal cases. I have the report due on a certain date and I'm not going to submit it until I have proof of the checks in the mail, or you've wired the money, or et cetera.

Noah Bolmer 6:20

How should expert witnesses handle those kinds of eventualities?

Dr. Linsey Willis 6:38

If you don't get paid, what do you do? Or whatever, quibbling on a few things. And then one case there's been a couple of cases where the guy didn't have the money to pay me and he ran out of the money and those types of things, and then you just kind of work it out with them and then you've already sent the invoice. So because I'm a business, that's the fourth I can write it off is it's billed but it's not paid.

Case Selection and Client Vetting

Dr. Linsey Willis 7:03

So it's, all you can do, but you have to be, you know, really adamant about how you're going to work with the lawyers, because you're not going to, you know, work, you're going to work with a retainer and that's it, you know. And sometimes I'll cut the retainer in half based upon what I know the case is about and how much, how many documents they have, and I do that once in a while. But then I make it clear to them that you know, after the retainer is, is the half the retainers used up. You know, I don't go continue to work until I get more money, because the lawyers do the same thing. They want to get paid and they want to. They want a retainer.

Noah Bolmer 7:36

Let's talk a little bit about preparation. So when you're going to go into a potentially contentious action you're going into a deposition, you're going into a trial bench trial, jury trial how do you get ready, how do you like to prepare, and what are the things that attorneys should be doing that help you feel prepared for your big day?

Dr. Linsey Willis 7:58

Well, I've only been to court twice but I'm waiting on a case right now where they were mediating it last week and I haven't heard back. But I've done some prep already to go to court because this is a lawyer's board, certified trial attorney. But I prepare by. You know, I know my stuff. I read the report over and over, the report I've written over and over again. I summarize my notes. You know I have them all typed up and I just read things out loud.

Noah Bolmer 8:44

Lately this one particular case, I've recorded my excerpts of my report and so forth.

Dr. Linsey Willis 8:46

So I kind of putting it into memory sure you never know what the other you know what. You never know what the other side's gonna gonna ask you, and some of them can be really. I've been in some really really tough depositions from the other side and they, some of them, just been really pretty nasty do you?

Noah Bolmer 9:01

uh, this this could be a learning experience for newer expert witnesses. Do you? Are you able to elaborate on that at all, without obviously giving any names or anything like that, but what exactly it feels like to be to be, you know, impeached on the stand, and how you go, how you deal with that sort of pressure.

Dr. Linsey Willis 9:19

Well, no one's ever impeached me, but I, this lawyer. They had this lawyer in this deposition on the case. That actually was a great case because it um two. Two defense law firms were taking this case. They were fighting. They were they, there was the plaintiff, but a defense law firm took the plaintiff's case, even though they mostly do defense cases. So you had two defense law firms going back and forth and I was their expert and I was in that deposition for seven hours.

Dr. Linsey Willis 9:49

In federal cases you can't keep an expert more than seven hours and I had breaks and I found out later that the lawyer that was deposing me was one of the partners and they intentionally sent a partner because she would be more intimidating, and they actually had one of the the HR manager in the room for intimidation purposes. But I didn't let it intimidate me and I finally got to the point where I said, ok, this is the third time you've asked me that question. Got to the point where I said, okay, this is the third time you've asked me that question, same answer, third time you've asked. You know, because I know when they've asked me the same question more and more and they're trying to lead you and they do a lot of this, hypotheticals, and I know how to deal with the hypothetical.

Noah Bolmer 10:36

Absolutely. You've been doing this for a while. Has the role of the expert witness in general changed at all throughout your your tenure as an expert witness? Have there been logistical changes, technology changes? Have? Has anything struck you as as being kind of new and fundamentally different as you've progressed?

Dr. Linsey Willis 10:57

rest. What's one of the best things that's that for me is uh, now you can get well before I wasn't doing it, but it's gotten better you get the deposition online and you can actually highlight the deposition. You don't have to print paper and then you know dropbox and all the other ways they send the files. It makes it easier. You can download something from the zip and then you I've learned that no, don't print the paper, I only print that I need pages I need to refer back to, so I don't have to go back through all the documents. So that's improved. You know, having the ability to highlight in the PDF, you know your main points and all you have to do is go back to those pages.

Noah Bolmer 11:38

Is go back to those pages. Do you find that virtual telepresence feels fundamentally different as an expert witness, in terms of connecting to the finder of fact or answering questions or demeanor or anything like that?

Contracts and Payment Terms

Dr. Linsey Willis 11:54

Well, I've done several virtual depositions over the past several years, one during COVID, for example, and there have been at least two of them where they did I couldn't see the picture of the other person who was asking me questions, and so that wasn't fair. And then one of the other ones I did that they were blacked out and I said I'd like to see your face. You can see me, but I can't see you. So my lawyer said on my side, said you need to see your face. You can see me, but I can't see you. So my lawyer said on my side, said you need to show your face. So, um, um it you. The technology works really well, like you know, when you have different people in the court reporter in there. I think it's pretty cool. And, um, as a matter of fact, that that case I was in Georgia.

Dr. Linsey Willis 12:39

I had suggested to the lawyers that they why don't you have a Zoom meeting with me and pretend I'm in a deposition? And you just asked me a lot of questions because they said I'd probably have to write a report, even though it was a state case and this was a personal injury case and so many of the cases I've worked on are so egregious, unbelievable. So I said why don't we just depose me? Because then it save you you a lot of money and me time not having to write a report, and it's like I'm thinking more about you know, helping them settle the case. And so they deposed me and I was already.

Dr. Linsey Willis 13:12

I had a chronology ready, I had it all spreadsheet with all the, the red flags and everything that took place with this employee place, with this employee, and they, they, they recorded it. And then they had a meeting with mediation, with both sides, and they played their recorded meeting and I, of course, I wasn't there and they, they, they had all the you know, heavy duty people in the meeting and they settled the case right there, based upon the recorded deposition. And the lawyers were so thrilled because they told me that they got more than they would have ever expected because of my, my, what I told them suggested they do.

Noah Bolmer 13:54

You know that's an interesting point, and I have heard from a lot of experts that cases are moving towards a settlement a lot more often than they used to. Does that one? Does that comport with your experience? But two, if so, uh, does that change anything in terms of your work as an expert witness, when things might move to settlement quickly? Does that, you know, impact your ability to make a living off of being an expert?

Dr. Linsey Willis 14:24

ability to make a living off of being an expert. Well, not really, because they're all. They're in all phases of the case and the toughest ones are the ones that I get almost last minute. And because they're, you know, they wait till the last minute because the lawyers don't want to pay the experts. They want to try to get around not having to hire experts, and only when they realize, oh, I really need now, I know I need, I need an expert and they'll they'll, you know, contact you.

Dr. Linsey Willis 14:46

This one case I had that it was a case against Lowe's and I can mention the case because it has its public record and all that, and I didn't sign a confidentiality agreement. They, they contacted me less than a month before the report was due in federal court and I told him no, I know enough about the Fair Labor Standards Act to be dangerous. No, that's not my area of expertise. But then when they asked me if I knew about job analysis and I said I'm an expert on that, so the other expert they'd hired on the plaintiff's side quit because he or she couldn't do the job. So I not only got the work done, I mean I had made a lot of money and I was. I was contracted out by one of the other companies that vet expert witnesses so that when that happens they have to pay, like round table or other companies, money on top of what the expert gets.

Dr. Linsey Willis 15:37

So those lawyers were really you know, they didn't. The guy calls me up three hours before the report was due in federal court and I said well, you know, I told you, you sent it to me last minute, I'm getting ready to send it but I'm not releasing the report. And he said but I have to have that report. And I said, well, I need to have my money because I've been I. So they did a wire transfer to prove that they were going to pay me. But that case helped them settle it and give the plaintiffs. Of course the lawyers got about $3.6 million and the plaintiffs, you know, but I really, you know, helped with help the situation.

Noah Bolmer 16:16

Yeah, absolutely. Do you find that there's a significant number of engagements that are kind of last minute and you don't have as much time as you would like to develop your report?

Dr. Linsey Willis 16:27

The majority aren't. But I've actually done last minute engagements, like within a month or a couple of weeks, because they begged me and they tell me what they have and I only do it if I know I can, you know, even if I have to stay up in the middle of the night to do it because they've said, please, please, I really need you. You've got a great background. I do a lot of negligent hiring, negligent supervision and negligent retention cases that I'm hired by personal injury attorneys, so I know a ton about that and I've helped with those cases as well. So I don't like doing them, but I'll do it if I feel I can squeeze in the time.

Noah Bolmer 17:03

Besides, you know, making sure that you have enough time to do the case, and obviously that is an important one. What else factors in? What's the calculus in deciding whether or not you're going to pick up a case, you're going to take an engagement? How often do you say no?

Dr. Linsey Willis 17:19

Quite a few times. I probably get oh my God, I get probably 20 acquirers a year, something like that. I don't keep track of it, but like one week I got three cases. I was hired for three cases in one week, but I get acquirers throughout the year and I only you know, if you know what you know, you know whether you can take the case or not, and then I'm very honest and I tell them I can probably help you with this, but I can't help you with that. That's not my area. You know, if you really want to hire me, I can only help you in this area, you know, and it shouldn't be all about the money, it should be about ethics and doing the right thing and providing a service and knowing damn well that you're going to do a really damn good job as an expert. I mean, I've got a really nice case list. I've got done cases all over the United States, at least I think. At least a lot of a lot of States. I've done and I've had repeat business from some law firms.

Noah Bolmer 18:16

Yeah, that that's a. That's an interesting point. So what's it like working across different venues? What sorts of preparation do you have to do when working in a new venue, be it a new state, a new level of government or perhaps a federal case, international? How do you get ready for a completely new venue?

Dr. Linsey Willis 18:34

I've worked at federal government. Oh, that's tough, don't, I'm not going to take any more of those. Can't fight the feds, it's really. Oh. I've had some. I was deposed by. I had meetings with one federal judge, oh my God. And then I had a meeting with another judge before it went to trial.

Dr. Linsey Willis 18:54

Those are tough but you have to know your stuff. But as you go, go through, you know, as you learn, you learn more and you acquire more experience and knowledge and then you just know so much of it's about the paper. How many documents do I need to review? And sometimes they do these document dumps and they're basically dumping so much paper on the whatever side that it's kind of like looking for a needle in a haystack. So that was one of the cases that I worked on against the federal government. I knew the lawyer was in over his head and I wanted to quit. But I tried to find him another lawyer but the other lawyer wasn't going to take it. The other lawyer couldn't, wasn't going to take it and it was like because they had so many thousands of pages of documents, that guy ended up not being able to pay me. But I was okay with it because I knew he was in over his head and then I was in over my head. Part of it, I think it was they thousands and thousands of pages of documents.

Preparing for Testimony

Noah Bolmer 19:55

Do they sometimes inundate you with irrelevant paperwork. Should they do a better job? You know vetting which paperwork makes it to the expert, because you're obviously going to charge for everything that you read.

Dr. Linsey Willis 20:08

Well, and if you're an ethical expert and you don't like wasting time going through paper, that's irrelevant. I can go through stuff that I need to look at pretty quickly. That's irrelevant. I can go through stuff that I need to look at pretty quickly. But I ask them to tell me you know which documents out of that whole file and Dropbox are the most important, and then you know if I don't. All that stuff I don't need to review. I said I don't want you to have me review stuff that really isn't relevant. I'm saving them time, money, and I'm saving. I'm making the money, but I don't care.

Dr. Linsey Willis 20:41

It's not about. It's about why waste your time billing for stuff that's superfluous to your opinion, it's not, doesn't make sense, because you can get burned out just reading stuff and you know what they do with it. You get lung lawyers, they take lawyers and they put the young lawyers down downstairs in the in the dungeon and all they do is read paper all day. So I know what paper, what documents I'm going to spend more time on and less time. You know. If it's a policies and procedures manual, I know. I'm just going to quickly peruse the table of contents and go to the policies and procedures that are relevant to my case. You know and then you know and just ignore the rest and just not. And I document how many hours every document I have, how long I've worked on it, because I don't want to overbill anybody.

Dr. Linsey Willis 21:25

Sure you know and I want, I want. Here's what I read. This is how long I took. You know, these are my billing hours and what I exactly what I read and how long it took. You know, because then you're being ethical.

Noah Bolmer 21:36

Right, I'd like to back up to something that you mentioned before, which was working as a plaintiff's expert versus working as a defendant's expert. What are the differences in the job itself for an expert witness when working for a plaintiff versus a defendant?

Dr. Linsey Willis 21:54

Well, you know that if you're on a defense case, the insurance company is going to pay you and sometimes they're slow to even get you your retainer and that got me messed up a couple of months ago. I can tell you about when you're dealing with a big law firm, a national law firm with several hundred lawyers and I don't think there is customer service oriented to the expert as a smaller law firm or a law firm that you can interact with the paralegal and the lawyer. Um, and this one law firm I work with, their you know, nationwide law firm and they're they never even got back with me. The lawyer was just didn't get me paid up front in time and it was on my case about finishing. I said, but I haven't even gotten yet the retainer yet. So there's the ethics about the law firm too, and you and you know and, uh, some of the lawyers are just in their law firm. They're not well managed.

Noah Bolmer 22:45

Yeah, and that's an interesting point, because experts do often work on teams. There are paralegals, there's assistants. There might be a team of many lawyers instead of just one lawyer. There might be other expert witnesses that are working alongside you. How do some of those relationships work? How closely do you work with other members of the trial team that are not the engaging attorney?

Dr. Linsey Willis 23:08

It depends upon the case. I've worked with paralegals that have, you know, kept on top of all the paper they've sent me and I've had contact with them and not contact with a lawyer. I've had other cases where I've been in contact with both smaller law firms. I'm dealing directly with a lawyer. You know. I have a more on hands-on with a lawyer. Talk to the lawyer and I always want to have scheduled the meetings, get all meetings scheduled. It varies based upon the law firm, part of the country. You know what the case is about, but my main goal and mission is to help settle cases.

Noah Bolmer 23:41

You know, that's one of the things that.

Dr. Linsey Willis 23:42

I want to do is help them settle the case because you know, you know they. You know nobody wants to go to court or the ones that go to court, you know they. I've learned a lot about that process how you know you. You have to decide if you want to put in front of a jury or not. But I write really great reports and I would consider them bulletproof for the most part Because I have so much documentations and citations and I do the research that you know you're not going to be able to not. You know, come back and say this woman, you know fabricated all this stuff. You need to have the factual evidence. You have your opinion but you have to back your opinion up with all the factual evidence, all the citations.

Noah Bolmer 24:27

I do research you have page numbers, all you have to have all that. What? What makes a great report? Besides, you know, obviously, it being accurate. Do you, for instance, like to use demonstratives? Um, do you have a specific? Do you like to use it? Do you make an index? What are the aspects of a great report?

Evolution of Expert Witnessing

Dr. Linsey Willis 24:43

Table of contents. Mine are pretty standard. I always have the reference section, I have the opinions and I may separate them out as opinion one, opinion two, opinion three, but I always and I also have a literature review I don't call it that, but a background about, like the background checking process, for example, or a background on another issue to so the reader knows that, okay, this is what, what the state of the art or is, so to speak, and and this is why this here it is, and my opinion is that company fell below the standard of care and you know, summarize each section and it's pretty standard. But I've written a lot of reports and I've done a lot of dissertations and I, you know, I've read a lot of term papers, what happened? So I know how to do all that stuff.

Dr. Linsey Willis 25:33

I've done several rebuttal, rebuttal expert things. Oh my god, I've read some. I've read some expert reports that were just horrible. That single space, no table of contents, uh, no citations. It's just, you know, awful. I don't know how they could even present something like that. Um, yeah, awful.

Noah Bolmer 25:54

Let's move to a couple of general questions. What makes for a great expert attorney relationship during the course of the engagement? What are the important aspects of a good relationship?

Dr. Linsey Willis 26:05

I think an attorney has to show respect respect you, as the expert has to return calls or make sure somebody gets back with you, and there's many of them that don't. They don't even let you know what the case settled. They you haven't even talked. You have meetings on the case settled. They you haven't. You can talk. You have meetings on the phone and they're. You schedule the meetings and you have a phone meeting and you give an overview of the case. They ask you questions, you ask them questions. You're learning from one another, so that's a good kind of relationship.

Noah Bolmer 26:36

Absolutely. Before we wrap up, do you have any last advice for expert witnesses or attorneys that are working with expert witnesses?

Working Across Multiple Venues

Dr. Linsey Willis 26:43

Know what you know and know what you don't know. And don't take cases where just for the money and learn how to write good reports and chronologies. Do research to back up all your opinions. You know, you may, you can say I know this, but wait a second. Here's what the literature says. Here's what the research says, journal articles and all that. And there you have it. It's all documented.

Noah Bolmer 27:05

Sage advice. Dr Willis, thank you so much for joining me here today.

Dr. Linsey Willis 27:09

Thank you so much, Ed.

Noah Bolmer 27:11

No, it was good to meet you and have a great rest of your day and thank you, as always, to our listeners for joining us for another edition of Engaging Experts Cheers. Thank you for listening to our podcast, engaging Experts. Our show notes are available on our website roundtablegroupcom.