Engaging with Land Surveyor Expert, Frank Ferrantello

A map can tell the truth and still confuse everyone in the room. That’s why we sat down with veteran surveyor and expert witness Frank Ferrantello to unpack how he turns dense site data into clean, visual evidence that judges and juries actually understand. From adding targeted photos to forensic surveys to framing testimony in everyday terms, Frank shows how clarity and not theatrics, moves cases forward.

We dive into the shrinking pipeline of seasoned land surveyors and why real expertise goes beyond data collection. Frank breaks down the legal backbone of surveying in New York: easements, boundaries, sidewalk liability, public versus private space. And how staying current on statutes and case law changes outcomes. He shares memorable examples from urban disputes, like when a plaza looks private but is governed by public agreements, and how mapping those lines can reset responsibility and reshape a claim.

Frank also opens his playbook on professionalism: starting each matter with conflict checks, refusing the hired-gun mentality, and deciding whether the facts deserve his name. His preparation focuses on organized digital records, concise answers for cross, and the discipline to let evidence speak for itself. When a case lands late, tight systems and visual exhibits help him deliver fast without bending the truth.

If you care about expert testimony, construction law, real estate disputes, or how to make complex information simple and persuasive, this conversation delivers practical insights you can use today. Hit follow, share this with a colleague who wrangles maps or liability, and leave a quick review to tell us what part changed how you think about evidence.

Transcript

Frank’s Path Into Expert Witnessing

Noah Bolmer 0:00

Welcome to Engaging Experts. I'm your host, Noah Balmer, and today I'm excited to welcome Frank Ferantello to the show. Now, Mr. Ferantello is the president of Ferantello Group Land Surveying, a full service land surveying civil engineering and construction consultancy. He's a board member of the Nassau Suffolk Civil Engineers and Land Surveyors and holds a bachelor's in civil engineering from Hofstra. Mr. Ferentello, thank you so much for joining me here today on Engaging Experts.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Good day. Thank you for having me, Noah.

Noah Bolmer 0:30

Absolutely. Let's jump into it. You've been in civil engineering since, boy, the late 90s, it looks like. How did you first become involved in expert witnessing?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

So uh I worked for my father's firm, uh, very analog, very old school surveying, you know, surveying profession is very old, dates back to the ancient pyramids of Giza. And uh we modernized it. Back in 1999, I was the first land surveyor to use digital photography when it first came out. Uh, I said to myself, uh I was taught to be and trained to be dynamic. So I figured, you know what? If we have this beautiful map or survey that's an exhibit, we put pictures on it, photograph exhibits, and they tell a story that's worth 10,000 words for jurors, for judges, for plaintiffs and defendants' attorneys, all to look at and really understand the existing conditions and the facts of the case. Because let's be honest, no one really knows how to read a map too well nowadays. When you look at a survey, a survey itself, it is so detailed, so intricate, and so forensic. Uh, I've I've had uh I've been retained as an expert because of cases that started because of miscommunication or misreading a survey map.

Noah Bolmer 1:47

So, what were some of those first calls like? Were you aware of expert witnessing as a business? Were you expecting to get these sorts of calls? Did you seek them out, or did somebody just call your land surveying company out of the blue and say, hey, we need an expert witness on this particular case?

Modernizing Surveys With Visual Evidence

SPEAKER_00 2:04

You know what it was is they they seek out a land surveyor, a professional land surveyor. But the majority of the profession, it's a very small profession. It's almost dying in one way, because the average age of land surveyors are in the 70s, right? My fellow board members are all 70s plus. And uh, so there's not a lot of experience left. There's more uh technicians and geospatial, geospatial like uh technicians, right? Um, a purveyor, a surveyor, a professional expert that knows the law, the statutes, the local laws. Um, there's not many of them out there. So with my expertise and just pr producing a uh product that's legible, clear, has all the data, is not show and tell. Um we're doing the right job for the right reason. Uh it kind of self it talks for itself, basically. The product uh was sought out for many years from my father's firm, and then I just enhanced it and made it more clear, legible, and enhanced it with photographs and lines and illustrations just to clearly explain the facts.

A Shrinking Profession And Real Expertise

Noah Bolmer 3:13

So you receive a phone call from an attorney or the representative of an attorney, and they say, Hey, we've got this case. Uh, we need somebody with your expertise. What are the sorts of questions that you ask them? Because it's a two-way vetting process. They ask questions, you ask questions, decide if it's a right fit. So, how do you determine if you and the attorney are a good fit for an engagement?

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Sure. So, number one, I always uh do a conflict check. That's that's priority number one. So a lot of people try to get me first sometimes, and it's a matter of, you know, doing a conflict check or working for a co-defendant. We're making sure we're making sure we're conflict free. I like to work alongside the um, you know, you know, some some plaintiff's attorneys can be kind of uh, how would I say, you know, um very aggressive and demanding, and they want results. And I'm not a hired gun. I'm a sought-out expert, uh, which is unbiased, and I know the law, and I know how to apply the surveying existing conditions, the forensic principles, and the statutes and law that I've uh tested on and how I got my license. So most people in uh layman terms, they don't know land surveyors need to know New York State law, environmental law, general obligation law, general business law, environmental, real estate, highway law. This is all part of the New York State specific exam to get my license. You know, I was gonna become a lawyer at 40, and I said to myself, you know what? Why why would I go back to law school? You know, I'm a surveyor and an engineer. I wanted to become a lawyer also. I'm like, let them fight over me, not let them fight against me, right? So so I'm very well respected in the community, and um, it's just simply stating the facts. So I would like to work alongside with certain people and just want to defend the facts, you know. Uh it's based upon facts.

Noah Bolmer 5:08

Do you find yourself working in kind of an even split between a plaintiffs and defendants, or does it kind of heavily veer on one side and does that even matter?

SPEAKER_00 5:17

About 50-50, more or less. You know.

Noah Bolmer 5:20

Is that important to you?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

You know, I don't have any preference over either side. It's just a matter of, you know, I look at the case and I see, you know, is this uh justifiable? Is this, you know, um something I want to put my name on? And um if I can help the case out or not, you know, and uh how the law applies.

Noah Bolmer 5:40

Absolutely. Let's talk contracts for a moment. So when you are doing an engagement letter, do you have any specific terms that you like to make sure that are that get in there? Maybe it's a project rate or an hourly rate, or you take an upfront retainer. Are there any specific terms that you like to use to protect yourself?

Vetting Clients And Staying Unbiased

SPEAKER_00 5:58

I do. I have a standard retainer contract. Um, it's important for me to be retained, uh paid for my time. And you know, listen, uh, sometimes I have seen cases go on 12 years before they were before they even call me, retain me, and they they need a job by New Year's Eve in one week. Um, like what happened? One law firm to another law firm over 12 years. No one hired an expert to see where the defect or the incident actually happened. 12 years? I've had them want it in like two days over a weekend. And I'm like, come on. Uh it's uh there's some really great attorneys out there, but there's some attorneys that just I don't know what it is. Um, they wait to the last minute. And listen, that's the majority of the real estate professionals out there. They they order the survey as the last thing, even though it's the most important. Whether it is easements, encumbrances, encroachments, out of possession, title neighborly disputes, they all wait to last minute.

Noah Bolmer 7:01

Yeah, yeah, that's something that I've heard from other expert witnesses as well. That sometimes they feel that attorneys don't contact them until it's it's almost too late, or there might not be sufficient time for them to do their best work. Let's shift a little bit. You work in a field where you are dealing with very complex information. You were saying that a big part of your job is kind of parsing these maps and uh, you know, making sure that laypersons can potentially understand these arcane concepts in land surveying. How do you communicate complex concepts to the trial team, including your attorney, but also to a per potential judge or even an impaneled jury?

Fee Structures And Last‑Minute Retainers

SPEAKER_00 7:44

So I'm very highly technical. So it's it's it is a challenge for me because I just it's my my jargon, right? But um I try to explain in simple terms, common sense terms, that you know, an easement is to ease the burden of one parcel or party against another. And what does that mean? It's a parcel of land, for example, that you know, you may have a driveway easement that's shared. It may mutually benefit both people, but it may also benefit one person and burden another party. So these are why these is this is why it gives rise to disputes because maybe there's an aggrieved party. Uh, someone doesn't know the the full gamut of the easement, of what the rights, title, and interest that they actually have, someone may not take the time to show them or explain to them the, or actually, you know, forget that even. Like they have to research the actual original easement document and agreement to say what the limitations are of the agreement, because an agreement and the terms and conditions can state anything. I could own below the Brooklyn Bridge and I could quick claim it and certify that I own it. Doesn't really mean I can own it and I can occupy it. But there's certain principles like that where uh they often go overlooked, especially in real estate title transactions. Um, but when it comes to Manhattan, New York City, you know, there are so many laws, local laws, there's so many statutes uh that apply to expert cases like disputes, air rights, easement disputes, utility losses and incidents, trip and falls, slips and falls, um, bus stops, pedestrian crosswalks, uh public and private development corporations developing plazas in front of the setback of high-rise and mid-rise buildings, you know, with have benches and tables and statues. Uh, sometimes there's there's incidents where it's a public space, but it's really on private property.

Noah Bolmer 9:48

Sure. How do you stay on top of it all with all of these, you know, not only just a large body of laws and oversight, but an ever-changing body of law and oversight? How do you stay current?

Explaining Easements In Plain Language

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Well, number one, continue education. Number two, always keeping my eyes and ears open, any new cases, any principles that come through, uh, any amendments to the statutes to a case law, um, you know, researching things on West Law or Thomson Reuters or, you know, um uh different legal platforms, but always being curious, like, you know, why am I being retained in this case? How can I help? And basically, like, for example, uh, there's new types of cases all the time, and I'm always setting um uh a precedent in them because you know, for example, sidewalk liability is great and all that, you know, people can slip and fall and trip and fall on a sidewalk defect, but is it within a certain area that may not be truly public? You know, like uh, or um it could be a sidewalk that's got these crescents and marble tiles, you know, and it was it was installed by um a private and public development corp in in conjunction with an agreement. So technically it's not the adjoining landowner who installed it, and he's not he or she is not responsible for it. So it goes back to the plaza department of New York City, DOT. If it's a pedestrian crosswalk, I've had cases that got lost before I got retained because they said, well, it's in front of the subject property, and the tenant andor landlord is responsible for it. But it's a part of the public infrastructure. And because when it's in charge of the sidewalk, um, the landlord, I can understand liability for that. But when it's a traveled infrastructure and public pathway taken by hundreds of thousands of public pedestrians each year in front of someone's property on an intersection that's a public intersection of two city streets, common sense prevails. That wouldn't make sense that I'm gonna be liable for that. I didn't install it, I don't maintain it, I don't use it. And so I've set legal precedent before by, you know, again, looking at the confines of the law and the statutes, looking at amendments in case law, and just using common sense, just like the Supreme Court would, you know, use common sense and certain principles to make uh new rulings.

Noah Bolmer 12:12

As one of the areas of expertise that do uh necessarily involve the law, does that ever lead to friction with the engaging attorney who's in fact a lawyer? Do you know have different interpretations of the law or different theories uh based on the facts at hand? Does that cause any any friction?

Public Versus Private Liability In NYC

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Of course, attorneys don't like to have bad news, but it's about looking at a case and seeing where I could zoom in on. And, you know, if you look at a case where, for example, a sidewalk joint between two sidewalk flags or sections, it may be almost infantesimally small, but you know, I always ask the attorney to review the survey results, review my findings face to face, and and zoom in, look at all my data. And I can understand that and I can help you do that. But um, I need to know really, you know, I look at the summons complaint, I look at the transcripts, the depositions, I look at a lot of different legal documents and exhibits from the case. But when you talked face to face to the attorney, then you can understand the story a bit better. You can really zoom in and hammer home, okay, and now I understand better. What occurred? Is this the uplifted sidewalk, or the other one subsided and sunk and fell? Sure. So there's two ways of looking at it. So you got to really kind of retrace, you know, retrace the defect and the cause and effect. It could be a drainage pipe, it could be an old route that decomposed and the root's no longer there, and so it sunk the sidewalk flag and section. Uh, and that gave way to a proper sidewalk, upper level and compliant, but the other side has a negligent sidewalk that sank, exposing my client's potential sidewalk, and that creates a trip hazard.

Noah Bolmer 14:04

Let's shift a little bit and talk about preparation. So you have a big day, a big case, it might be a deposition, it might be a trial, whatever the case may be. How do you get ready for the big day? I've had uh expert witnesses tell me they like to review all of the materials, and then I've had some more intangible things. I like to do yoga, I like to drink a lot of coffee, I like to fast. How what does your preparation routine look like when you're getting ready for any potentially big day?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Blood flow is good, right? Blood flow is blood flow is always good. So getting to the gym, getting an early start, uh getting hydrate is important. Um, having my support team help me guide me, uh, have all the facts in hand. Um and just, you know, again, you know, you I may retain a lot of information. I do. Um, it's been certified in court, my memory, but I'm only human. No one's getting younger. Clock's not going backwards, right? It's only going forwards. Uh it seems like it goes faster with each month and each year going.

Noah Bolmer 15:01

Do you have uh a story or two or a case or two? Obviously, you don't have to give the details to reveal the client or anything, but that either reinforce something that you do already as an expert witness or change the way that you go about doing some aspect of expert witnessing. Do you have any kind of tent pull cases?

Research, Precedent, And Staying Current

SPEAKER_00 15:21

You know, I I have a uh just a wealth of knowledge um on a case. And uh sometimes it's just too much information for people. Uh maybe under cross-examination, uh, sometimes less is more. You know, um, I've been very successful in um conveying the facts of the case because sometimes when when an expert's under cross-examination, the other side, whether they retain me or not, another case or not, you know, they want to disqualify me, they want to doubt me, they want to distract me, they want to disorientate me. Uh and you know, a lot of times I have a great comeback, and you know, they're trying to to to you know snatch you on something, right? So less is more sometimes. And, you know, when I do have to expand on a principle or something like a fact of the case and a principle like why I feel this way based upon my survey of existing conditions and my findings, is because you know, I have a lot of experience, and the way I was taught and the way I learned was who's to say I'm right? Maybe I made a mistake, but you know, I like to have um, especially in my procedures, like a litmus test. You know, if I had to present this in court every single step, why am I right? Why am I correct? Based upon what factual evidence, legal evidence, am I right? You know, and because I have been questioned, I have been um disputed many times from from normal property owners, from land users, from zoning attorneys, just from builders, developers that may be uh very successful, and they just think because they're successful, they're always right. But most of the time, I would say 85 to 90 percent of the time, they don't have any factual-based legal evidence. They don't they don't even have an old survey that's relevant. It may be from the 1950s, it may be outdated, it was chopped up and sold off piecemeal. So, you know, it's I have a lot, I have all the knowledge, I have all the facts, and it's very rewarding presenting them all. I just have to be careful I don't say too much, because sometimes people will chew on that and try to get you on something. So sometimes less is more. And when I have to expand on something, I have to explain it in lame terms.

Noah Bolmer 17:52

As somebody who's been doing this for a long time, do you run into situations where the other side wants to impeach you on things that you've said before, either take something out of context or look at something that you wrote 20 years ago, then maybe just the facts have changed or your opinions change? How do you deal with those sorts of situations?

Working With Attorneys And Friction Points

SPEAKER_00 18:12

Um, you know, I've had people accuse me of, you know, well, uh, what makes me an expert if I worked for my father for so many years? But I've been working more for myself as an expert longer than I've worked for my father. And because it's a predecessor firm of my father's experience or teachings or training as Bible, you know, as as written in stone. I didn't agree with some of it, you know. I I like to do a very diligent approach. Um, I've had to deal with politicians, attorneys, public hearings, uh, members of the board, opposition, neighboring uh uh uh adjoiners and and neighboring owners that they hire their own counsel to to go against and oppose a certain application or project or self-storage building. And so I have to have those facts. So I want to be um very diligent, all the information at hand, and you gotta be very organized. That's the key, you know. Um we have all this technology, we have all this ability to collect information nowadays, and information and data is powerful. So I always like to get everything organized, and the the easier you organize it, the easier it is to convey it and retain it for yourself.

Noah Bolmer 19:29

You know, do you have any specific organization tools that help you? Do you like any specific apps or you paper and pen guy? How do you how do you like to get organized?

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Um, I like to keep things digital, um, just because they're always at the fingertip in the cloud. They're always, you know, if it's on mobile, if it's an email. I just like to be clear, you know, um the more detailed, the better, because you can search by almost any terms. So you don't want to miss a beat. You know, as a surveyor, not just an expert, I deal with all types of clients, and I mean all types of clients. So So some architects will, you know, they'll call it the Smith Residence. A title company will have a title number to reference by. You know, internally, project management-wise, we'll have a job number. Um, the attorneys will have the the title of the case, you know, um, the uh capture from the court. Um, and um, so there's a lot of different uh facts that you have to go by that represent and catalog and categorize the project or case.

Noah Bolmer 20:30

Before we wrap up, do you have any last advice for expert witnesses or attorneys that are working with experts?

Prep, Composure, And “Less Is More”

SPEAKER_00 20:36

I would just say you have to be organized, you have to be consistent, you have to be detailed, and you have to be relatable. You have to be able to explain it so the jurors, uh, the judge and the bench trial can all understand and relate with what you're saying. You know, so many people have neighborly disputes with fences and easements and driveways. Same things may apply to many expert cases. And, you know, a lot of it comes down just to being relatable and common sense.

Noah Bolmer 21:07

Sage advice, Mr. Farantello. Thank you so much for joining me here today.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Thank you. Noah, it's a pleasure.

Noah Bolmer 21:12

And thank you as always to our listeners for joining us for another edition of Engaging Experts. Cheers.