Engaging with Horticulturist Expert, Mark Czarnota

A crop can look fine from the road and still be in freefall, and a “damaged” tree can be one good growing season away from recovery. That gray zone is where expert witnesses earn their keep, and where bad assumptions can turn into huge losses.

We sit down with Dr. Mark Czarnota, associate professor of horticulture at the University of Georgia, to unpack what happens when weed science, herbicide drift, and plant physiology collide with legal deadlines. He shares how expert witness engagements actually arrive, why staying current in pesticide research and specialty crop systems is a daily job, and what it takes to explain technical findings to attorneys, insurers, and lay readers without watering down the science. We also get practical about credentials that come up in court, including certified arborist expectations and pesticide licensing.

Dr. Czarnota walks through depositions from the expert chair, including how lawyers try to corner new witnesses, why sticking to facts protects your credibility, and the courtroom lesson that led to a mistrial early in his career. We dig into report writing strategy, valuation challenges for injured ornamentals and trees, and the contract clauses experts must read closely before signing. If you work in agricultural litigation, horticulture litigation, or any technical field where the truth has to survive cross-examination, this conversation maps the terrain.

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Transcript

Sponsor And Show Kickoff

SPEAKER_00 0:02

This episode is brought to you by Roundtable Crip, the experts on experts. We've been connecting attorneys with experts for over 30 years. Find out more at RoundtableCrip.com.

Noah Bolmer 0:15

Welcome to Engaging Experts. I'm your host, Noah Ballmer. Today I'm excited to welcome Dr. Mark Charnota to the show. Dr. Charnota is an associate professor of horticulture at the University of Georgia. He's an expert in topics ranging from weed control to Christmas trees. Dr. Charnota holds a PhD in floriculture and ornamental horticulture from Cornell. Dr. Charnota, thank you so much for joining me here today on Engaging Experts.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Thanks. Thanks for having me. Uh that would be an interesting conversation.

Noah Bolmer 0:47

Absolutely. Let's jump into

How Experts Get The Call

Noah Bolmer 0:49

it. So, as a horticulture professor, how did you first become involved in expert witnessing?

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I guess just like everyone else that's an academic like me, publish a paper or do a video or some sound clip or something. And uh usually it's been through my extension publications. They'll find about what I'm doing, and uh there'll be something pop up legally that's associated with it, and then I get some phone calls.

Noah Bolmer 1:13

Tell me about the phone calls. What are the sorts of questions that that you get asked? What are the sorts of questions you like to ask? Tell me about the vetting process a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

The first call I got, I guess, would have been uh, well, first, I should say my job entails this type of work all the time, anyway. So I have uh my position here is mainly uh at the University of Georgia, it's mainly weed control uh and specialty crops, which are all the horticultural crops, which there just isn't many people out there that do this type of work. So I think last time I counted, if you put everybody in a pot, there might be 10 people in the country do the research and stuff that I do. So uh so it's quite unique. And uh I guess we're in our field. The first expert witness case I did, I gotta remember that would have been a blueberry case. Uh it was dealing with uh herbicide drift, uh, often it happens. They're spraying a herbicide on a forest situation, it drifts over on the blueberry field, you know, and all of a sudden 60 acres of blueberries are damaged, and they're uh trying to get an attorney, an expert witness, and put all this together, and they need somebody to opine on what happened and uh uh if they can mitigate it anyway, and if not, what are the damages? And then it just led from there. There's horticultural cases. I've done a lot of book bamboo type cases, uh anyway, but it just never seems to end.

Noah Bolmer 2:32

When you are first having those phone calls, are there any red flags or anything that you watch out for? I know you said that there's only like 10 people doing exactly what you do. Uh, do you ever have to go a little bit outside the four corners of your experience and and read up on anything in order to take an engagement?

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Oh, I have to read up on everything, even if I if I'm an expert in the field, because things are always changing and it's never ending. Um, I always tell people I'm uh you know, I'm 59 and I learn something every day. And it's been like that for all my life. It could be from something simple on how a car works to, you know, use generally with my job, some piece of equipment or how a plant reacts to something, it's always something new and something to be learned.

Staying Current In Weed Science

Noah Bolmer 3:17

Yeah, that's important. You know, it's not just about being an expert, but it's about maintaining that expertise. So you say that you're always reading. I know obviously you're an academic. What exactly does it mean to maintain expertise in your field?

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Uh that's a great question. Uh I guess uh, you know, I I often think, you know, I'm I'd like to think I have retirement in my sights in the next few years, but um, you know, part of me, it's gonna be hard to let all that go because once I leave this field, you know, everything goes away. I'm kind of on the cutting edge of stuff. I go to meetings, watch uh people give lectures, uh, constantly on top of literature. Uh something could happen in the state. Uh, we get you know blanket emails from all the other people that work closely that my field that I kind of have close ties with and it's related to me. All that kind of goes away. So that that in itself is being the expert because you're just kind of not only do I draw on the 30 years of experience that I have, but you're also taking in all the new stuff on the front end that's happening, you know, with all the AI technology, the drone technology, which I think is going to be problematic in my field. It has great, uh, I shouldn't say completely bad, but there's gonna be some uh there'll be some good things from it and bad things from it as well that I could see happening. But it's those type of things that that I think make makes you maintain your expertise.

Noah Bolmer 4:41

Absolutely.

Licenses Credentials And Points

Noah Bolmer 4:42

When you say going to meetings, are there professional associations in your field that you have to be credentialed with, or is it more of just uh, you know, continuing to stay up to date on on developments?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Yeah, it would be the latter there. I think, you know, color credentialed. The only thing I'm credentialed in is I'm a certified arborist, and I did that because I got tired of arguing with people and they always want you to have the certified arborist thing, which uh it was mainly herbicide type cases I would deal with. And unfortunately the Arborist Association doesn't have any training on that, even though the people act like they do and really don't understand uh how herbicides work, what they do, and the implications of them. Uh, you know, I think they they really have a firm understanding of that. But that was that would be the only thing I have the credentials in. And I guess I have to maintain credentials in my, you know, we have to have pesticide applicator licenses. Uh there's all kinds of little nitpicky things, but probably the only two things I can think of off the top of my head would be the certified arborist and the pesticide certification in my state. I have to maintain. There's always, and that's always changing. It's good for five years. You have to get you're supposed to get points and all this. But anyway, it's kind of funny because I go to like I give lectures and give myself points, which I don't understand why we just don't get a pass for that. It's just it doesn't make any sense to me. So anyway, and often have arguments with them about points and how things work. But

Travel Fees And Site Visits

SPEAKER_02 6:03

anyway.

Noah Bolmer 6:03

Uh, with with so few people in your field, I imagine you do a fair amount of travel. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 6:09

Uh yeah, I'd I'd, you know, uh this year the grant fund, the funding's down a little bit this year for what I usually do, but generally I'm always putting out uh I work with mainly work with chemical company, you know, ag chemical companies that develop pesticides of all ranges, uh, but generally I work with just the specialty crops. I also work with companies with adjunct technology, which is uh uh the adjumants and how they work, and uh that basically makes the the pesticides work better. I've done work with that. Um and you know, but I do a lot of in-house stuff at at our station where I work, but I also do a lot of I do travel to farmers, you know, actual farmers' fields, deal with our, you know, find out what the problems are, what what issues they're having, and try to help them out, become more productive because that's part of what I what my mission is here is on my position. Um, and I also travel, you know, out of state to do expert witness stuff. Uh, I do consulting work also to help people guide them on um, I guess developing good weed programs, or if they're having trouble with a lot of weed issues, I can help them with that. I can write report, go visit the site, write a report up, and then answer questions and help guide them on that. And of course, I go to meetings also, which is um only a couple times a year, you know, three, four times a year. I have meetings out of state.

Noah Bolmer 7:26

You know, uh with with site visits and a little bit of travel with respect to being an expert witness specifically, in your contract, do you build in any special terms to account for for like travel rates or different rates depending on what you're doing or where you are?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Yeah, it just depends. I usually usually I'll just charge a per uh a fee for uh visiting a farm and then uh you know, uh plus travel expenses. So and you know, I don't have to fly first count class or anything like that. I just get there. And the thing I really like about doing the expert witness stuff is that it's always very educational for me. Uh, I know a lot of people, some people don't like it because you know it ends up I've only gone once to court. Uh I've been to post many, many times, but uh, but usually of course settles out of court. And then uh, but just going through that process, I really helps me learn uh a lot of things about what I do in my field. And uh and also I see the need for publications for things in the legal field too, or I I always have problems with uh one of the biggest things is just valuation of plant material when a plant would be injured, you know, an ornamental plant's injured, but yet it's going to come back. You know, I think there should be some fee given by the insurance company for aesthetical loss. And that there's really nothing published on that. And it's really nothing, you know, you can really know hard, fast rules, it's always who what the clients and the insurance companies agree to. So, but it would be nice to have some type of percent, you know. You could value I can value out the tree and tell you what it's worth, but what is what is the loss if that tree doesn't have all its leaves for two years, you know, or doesn't do well. So, but there's all kinds of stuff like that that runs

What Depositions Really Feel Like

SPEAKER_02 9:04

through.

Noah Bolmer 9:04

You mentioned going to depositions and trials. If you were an expert, you've never been to a deposition before, what are the sorts of things that you can expect? What's the place like? What are the sorts of questions that you get asked? How long is it? Just kind of walk me through a deposition from from your perspective.

SPEAKER_02 9:20

Well, the first deposition, the first trial I did, I caused a mistrial because I told him I was getting paid by the insurance company, but I I didn't, but I kind of did. And then of course it caused a mistrial. But the lawyer was trying to get a mistrial and stopped the trial like three times. And but the problem is, is I I guess to the lawyers out there, you need to explain the ground rules to your expert witness if they go on the stand, look, you can't do this. One of the cardinal sins, it'll cause a mistrial. This is what you can't say, I can and cannot say. Me being as ignorant as I was 20 years ago, I guess that happened, or God, it's almost 20 years ago. I can't believe that. And then uh what I learned from that, you know, and the the thing, the problem, the sad thing was is that guy was going to win that case once I got up on the stand because all the information I was gonna give, and he was doing everything he could to keep me off the stand. And then uh, but there was just the questions for depositions. It's general just uh I noticed that if you're like me and you're brand new, uh, you know, they try to strong arm you and and get you to say things that you that's not true. You know, I always stick by the science. And uh the last one I had with bamboo, uh oh what the lawyer was trying to pigeonhole me into uh getting to say what he wanted me to say, but of course I backed off and he was trying to uh limit. I guess we we were talking about the different things about horter how to maintain a horticultural system. And and I basically went back and said that you know, it's about what I've learned over the years on how to run, you know, important parameters and providing uh good gr good growth measures to plant material and you know, things like that you have to draw off of. And a lot of times when you're new, you you know the information, but you don't really know what to say because you can't uh withdraw that information from your memory banks to you know make that deposition, I guess, go in the client's favor as well as your favor, you know, and what they're trying to do. But generally the questions I get are uh, you know, they'll want to know things like example, what I just said, the value of a tree. If I come up with some type value, they want to know where I got that, and you have to tell them. And there's really no hard, fast publishable source to go off of, and they'll really, you know, hone in on that. But I think most of the things if I usually stay the facts and stuff that I do and not try to draw me off on something I'm not an expert on, I usually don't have issues with it on the number of times I've been deposed. It's it's been pretty good as far as I think I've helped out clients.

Noah Bolmer 11:46

Do

Preparing Well And Seeking Truth

Noah Bolmer 11:47

you feel that your attorneys have done a pretty good job preparing you for those depositions and for that one time that you were in trial? Or going back, would you prefer your your attorney had uh better prepared you or run you through some mock depositions? What sorts of uh preparation techniques work for you?

SPEAKER_02 12:05

Well, I haven't been on any uh big, you know, multi uh well, I've been on uh some big uh cases, but none of them, of course, went to deposition. Um those those type people would have really uh gone through some mock mock trials with me or mock depositions to try to help me out and uh tell me kind of avoid pitfalls that you would have. But it's usually the small type little farmer things that we have. This is where you don't get much uh help and then you kind of gotta draw on from what you've learned in the past. But and it's usually the other lawyers and they don't sometimes understand that you gotta kind of tell the person what they got to do. But uh generally, you know, once you've done one or two, you kind of know what to do and in and what you're supposed to do. And uh, you know, and my whole thing is I always tell people I'm always I try to seek the truth. That's my job. And then uh, you know, and the problem is is there there's twisty roads getting to that point to uh you know exactly what the truth is, and and you know, and they'll try to the other side's gonna try to go after that. And I understand that because I know I've been on both sides as far as working for insurance companies and working for clients. So you kind of know where, okay, this is the questions I'd be asking that person if I was hit, if I was you. And, you know, so I sometimes can help the lawyers guide them when they're doing the depositions on someone else, as well as them telling me what to look for and what the ground rules and what I can and cannot say, I guess, as far as the legal stuff, which is that's kind of not in my wheelhouse, you know. I'm not a lawyer. Although once you've been involved in the system enough, you kind of learn what what's legal and what's what what what could cause a mistrial and what can't.

Teaching Lawyers Plant Basics

Noah Bolmer 13:48

You're you're an academic. Do you find that you have to teach the uh attorney a lot of the time, some of the technical details about what it is that you're being uh engaged for so that they can perform their job better?

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Well, I I've come to notice after all the deposits are all the I guess expert witness stuff that I've been involved in. Sometimes there's conflicts and they're trying to win a case and I'm trying to seek the truth. Uh so these sometimes these things mesh very well together and sometimes they do not. Um, and I guess a lot of times I'd uh on the one large case I was involved in with with uh with with uh herbicide with DuPont, uh I guess uh I it I was getting bothered sometimes that they really didn't care about the I guess what was going on with the actual herbicide and what was what was happening. So you kind of have to let them on though though I notice a lot of times they're I don't want to be mean, but they're they're so ignorant about agricultural systems that it really takes you have to go back to really to the starting point of where we're gone to make them understand, okay, this is how a plant works, uh, because most of the lawyers don't know the difference between a soybean and plant at a corn, you know, stalk, and then let alone when you're dealing with the other thing, you know, the technical issues with herbicides and how they work, because you know, I barely understand half of that myself because we just don't understand that information. But that's the type of information I think getting from the the just the just this the simple growing uh methods and the simple aggreg agronomic practices to actually to the science to get you aware of what happened in this case, uh this is why this happened, and this is what you need to do to try to mitigate this. And and I think a lot of times, yes, I could say I'd it's kind of a back and forth, I think, with the lawyers because I don't know what I know they're trying to win this case, and I usually wouldn't take something on which I know that's not right. But if it's something that I can help with, I'll it's some back and forth between us to get get them where they need to go, as well as stay on that that track of seeking the truth is what I try

Writing Reports Regular People Understand

SPEAKER_02 16:02

to do.

Noah Bolmer 16:02

Tell me a little bit about your report writing strategy when you have to write an expert witness report and you have all this technical information. How do you parse that in a way that conveys your opinion strongly, but also is approachable to lay persons who might actually be reading it?

SPEAKER_02 16:19

Um, that's a great question. Uh, you know, once you wrote one or two, uh, you know, you can start drawing off of those to know how to guide you to do things. There's always differences in the cases, uh, you know, the crop I'm working with, uh the the the time frame that the herbicide or the damages have occurred, whether it be herbicides or some other horticultural issue. But that generally it's once you've written a couple, you can really uh you know hone that in. But it's just sitting down writing, it's just a difficult thing. Uh it it I I always tell people I wrestle with it. Uh you write it and then you read it three or four times till you're happy with it, and then you know, uh, and the technology is getting so much better for spelling errors, grammatical issues, all that. It just makes it so much easier to write because you know you have things going on in your mind, you're trying to get things out, and it just, you know, I I always want type person just get out on the paper and then go back and you know, edit it and change it and refine it to make it readable and uh professional. So anyway, but it's I can tell you generally it's just it's just getting that first one out. It's kind of right when I'm writing a dissertation or a thesis that they have written or even a publication. People don't have any idea when you go through a publication. This is when you write a peer-reviewed publication, it's three years worth of work, usually or two years, and then you write all this out, and then you know, you send it to reviewers, and then they chew it all up and send it back or reject it, and then you got to resubmit it. And it can be very difficult and trying at times, but as you go through that process, you learn how to kind of avoid the pitfalls of publication things. But if I could tell anybody just do one one, if you just do one and get that out, you will build off of that. And you know, you'll build off the Excel spreadsheets, the calculations and losses, uh, everything is so much easier once you have have gotten it going through that process once.

Noah Bolmer 18:07

Well, you've been doing this for a while. You're published, you've written a lot of reports, you've been in a lot of actions. Do you ever have to keep track of everything that you've said in a way because you might be impeached in a deposition because of something that you once said 20 years ago?

Contract Clauses That Can Trap You

Noah Bolmer 18:24

Maybe the uh technologies change, maybe the methodologies change, maybe you've changed your mind about something. Is that something you've ever had to contend with?

SPEAKER_02 18:32

I think the only thing I I'd have to say with what it if if I had to change anything on my deposition, I don't think I I I don't I know the recording stuff a lot more now, but I don't think that would be the problem I have is when I'm signing, I have to be much more adamant when I'm reading over a contract I signed for an attorney. Because I had one case several years ago I signed and noticed not without reading it, because usually it's just like you're not going to divulge just information, but they stuck in things in there that I can't I can't work on any cases involving this herbicide for the rest of my career. And I signed that, uh, that was a big mistake on my part. So that's the type of things I'm very adamant when I read stuff over. I'll be sure it cross that out and initial it, and then say, uh, I'll you you you I won't work for anyone else as long as you're not paying me. So and so it's just stuff like that. You just have to be careful what you're signing. If I could tell anybody new to make sure you read that contract over your signing very quickly, it's really only a paragraph, but it can be very powerful sentences in that paragraph. But as far as what I say, I everything I say is is based on all the scientific information that I dig up. And that of course can change. So, you know, if that changes, I'll be able to prove that. So I really I don't that doesn't bother me at all. I don't have to, I don't really think about those type things. But more what the attorneys are making me sign to go back years ago so I can't work on anything in the future, that that would bother me more than anything else.

Simple Routines Before Testifying

Noah Bolmer 19:57

Sure. Let's talk routines a little bit. Do you have any pre-deposition, pretrial? Is there anything that kind of gets you ready, gets you in the right headspace for an action? I've had guests tell me that they like to drink a lot of coffee, do yoga, fast, make sure they get sleep. Is there something that works for you that just kind of gets you ready?

SPEAKER_02 20:14

No, I'm just a normal person. I try to work out. I I love being a in a weight room in a garden. Uh I love fixing things. Uh very uh grew up uh parents were blue coffee. My dad worked at Christ Lair as a guard, my mom was a nurse, so you know we had what we needed, kind of figured it out. And I don't really need any of that stuff at all. I try to take care of myself best I can. I just know I the one one thing, if I'm super tired, I tend to not be so sharp and I try to avoid that if I can. But it's amazing how I end up going to bed at two or three in the morning, still at 59. And you're like, why am I up so late? Why am I riding this at 3 a.m.? And then up at you know, 6 30 to get my daughter on the bus. So I have a special needs daughter, so it makes it very interesting. It makes her an interesting life. You know, I rescue dogs, I have a bunch of dogs I gotta feed. Uh my wife's a nurse, she works. It's just it's a full life, so wide open, and you know, anyway. So, but nothing absolutely nothing special, just a normal try to get some sleep, normal life. And if you if if you have if you're a well-sharpened person, you know, with good background, uh, I don't think you're gonna have a problem.

When Saving Trees Matters Most

Noah Bolmer 21:27

Yeah, you don't have to give any details. I know a lot of this could be confidential, but there are there some stories or some moments that either fundamentally change the way that you do something regarding expert witnessing or reinforce something that you already do.

SPEAKER_02 21:41

Yeah, that would be the latter. Uh, because I'd I've come into situations, the biggest ones are when we have herbicide damage on a tree, you get an arborist and they want to cut the tree down. And I'll say, I'll put the brakes on all that and say, look, I've seen this happen before. Uh 90% of the time, this tree's gonna come back. Within two years, and you guys want to cut down this, you know, 200-year-old specimen just for the insurance money. And I think that's criminal. And I'll do everything I can to stop that and uh at least put the brakes on to give the tree a chance to come back. And then I'd have to say, probably out of five or six cases I've been involved in, I think all the trees that I've been involved in, they came back. And uh, so that's why I do this, and that's prevent people from uh it's really the the lawyers using the insurance companies just to try to get make money because I mean we're talking, you know, it's not that much money really in most people's eyes, but a million-dollar case to me for six trees in somebody's yard and they want to cut them all down and they're still alive and they're like, I think they're gonna come back. Uh, here's why. And at least I can put the brakes on all that for them removing it and at least try to convince the homeowner, just give them a year or two. And the lawyers are biting it to bit to cut them down before anything like that would happen on the other side. And those are the type of cases I love to do. Or when somebody's obviously done something wrong in a blue, for example, that blueberry case I mentioned, you know, the guy had 60 acres of blueberries, then you know, about a $1.4 million losses, but it's about $150,000 an acre. So due that time, about 40 acres were damaged, and really all of them need to replanted at that point, and because you damaged so much. And then the DuPont case I was on was worth the $1.5 billion. And I was the person that was really steering those lawyers in the right direction, I thought, for what had happened. And the sad thing on that case, there were so many other people missing things because they just didn't have an understanding of what was going on with those products and how the how the trees reacted on it.

Noah Bolmer 23:48

On a big case like that, were there other experts that were also on the case kind of as a trial team?

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Yeah, we have four people on that one. Four, one, two, three. There are actually one, two, three, four. Yeah, there were four of us on that case.

Noah Bolmer 24:01

What extent do you interact and work with them or do you at all?

SPEAKER_02 24:05

Oh, yeah, we worked it together quite a bit. And then uh that was very helpful. You know, the problem is is when you get two or three people that don't like one another, and then that's I wouldn't say didn't like one another, but just didn't like the personality, you know. It's just life. You just get people that you still like their personalities. But I respected them. I'll give them the give you that, but I just didn't you know that makes it difficult. But most of the time I get along with most people, it just you know, some academics can be very chromogeny, I guess. Uh anyway.

Working Fast On Attorney Timelines

Noah Bolmer 24:37

Let's back up to kind of a general question. What does it take to get off on the right foot with your engaging attorney? And how do you maintain that momentum throughout an engagement? And the other side of that coin is are there any red flags that you're like, ah wow, this isn't going so hot. Somebody should do something.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

Um, no, I just I I've never had anything go to trial, so it wasn't anything other than one that went to trial that I caused a mistrial. It wasn't a big case, it was more that the guy was really angry at his neighbor and it should have never gone to trial. It could have been worked out very easily. So, but uh on the big case I worked on with DuPont, of course, I didn't even get deposed at that one, but uh anyway, uh the attorney the that I dealt with was absolutely fabulous. Uh he knew how to talk to us, uh, because he had several other attorneys in his group that weren't so uh uh their interpersonal skills weren't the best. And uh, but the fellow that I dealt with was just fabulous. Uh and he knew how to talk uh, talk to us, prepare for prepare things, uh, was understanding about stuff, uh just great. So uh I really haven't had any really negative things, you know, because I just know how attorneys work. You know, they'll send you stuff and wanted it two days ago. So and I usually finish it and you know, and then you don't hear back from them for two weeks. So you're like, oh, you needed that really quickly, but it's just that's where you start figuring that the wheels of justice turn very uh flow.

Noah Bolmer 26:09

Do you find yourself on on those tight timelines a lot where they need uh you know an expert witness report like three hours from now?

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Oh yeah, I've been uh I know it's incredible some of the cases you'll get I've dealt with where they'll want it, you know, you'll they'll they'll call you out last minute. Oh, we need this tomorrow, and it's like, yeah, I can get it to you. And then, but then I'm able to draw off other stuff I've written, and I usually know of stuff I can look stuff up really quickly and move in that direction uh pretty quickly. And then if it's something that's unrealistic, I'll tell them that and they'll like they'll move stuff around. But it's it's usually with getting ready to do a deposition and they end up settling out of court anyway. So it doesn't it was a mood point.

Noah Bolmer 26:47

Sure, sure. Is is that typically because the attorney is bringing you in kind of last minute and they really should have brought you in a little bit earlier, or is it because new information is found and they're like, oh gee, I need an expert?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

No, they just can't find anybody because they don't know about our field. So and then all of a sudden I pop up and then they're like, Oh, this happened like a year ago. Can you help me out with this? And I mean, I just got a call from a guy, but he knows me, but he had uh uh it was it's in North Carolina, it's a herbicide case uh on blueberries, and anyway, it's he's got a few acres, but he just waited too long. And then anyway, but uh just that type of stuff happens all the

Small Field Dynamics And Final Advice

SPEAKER_02 27:27

time.

Noah Bolmer 27:27

With such a small community uh in your field, do you know each other? All the experts in the field, do you ever find yourselves uh across the table, you know, we're uh against the other guy? You know, you're on the plaintiff's side, he's on the defendant's side, and you know know each other? Sure do happens all the time. What's that dynamic like?

SPEAKER_02 27:47

It's just a small group of people. Um, it's it's usually I'll get involved with other like row crap guys that are in my field. So I really don't know them that well. So you know, I just know who they are and it's fine. And you know, sure just it doesn't bother me. I don't care. It's just and uh I'll go you learn when you get a doctorate degree, you could go toe-to-toe with anyone. It just you just get to a point. It's like being a good attorney. I mean, you know you're gonna make people mad and it's just your job and you're just trying to do it. I'm always amazed at attorneys when I when I went through the one case that I caused the expert well, I caused the mistrial. The two attorneys like hated one another in the k in the courtroom, but you get out and they're talking to each other, like, oh, how's your kids doing? Uh it's like it's like everything's put down and you just, you know, right. You be you be you be human towards each other. You leave it on the field. Correct.

Noah Bolmer 28:35

Yes, yes. Uh before you wrap up, do you have any last advice for expert witnesses or attorneys working with experts?

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yeah, so uh, I guess for people like me, I I think it's a great thing to do. Uh, you know, you can make a little extra money for your your life. And the great thing for me is that it's such a learning process for me because I get involved in things that are really hot topics of that are going on right now. And then uh, you know, I I would encourage people to do it. Uh sometimes, you know, people are gonna try to hurt your feelings and and uh make you look not so good. But you know, people do that all the time in our fields. If you have a doctorate degree anyway, when they're questioning you if you're you know you're you're presenting research. I can tell you that it happens all the time. So it's nothing that there you you should be scared of. And then as far as the attorneys, uh, it's just I guess finding people like if you have any horticultural or agricultural cases, it's it's often hard to find people that are experts in the field that you're looking for. But usually if you turn to land grant universities, you can find the people and and you might be able to get some to do expert witness cases. But I know a lot of my friends won't do it because it's just time consuming. They have families and they just have no interest in it. And if but uh there there are plenty, if you look around, uh, you know, you can find people to do things like that. Because I think the when you go for a law degree, you just you you'll go to a school, it's not a land grant university, they have no ag school. So you and if you don't have a if you grew up in a city and you really haven't had a horticulture or agricultural experience, it's really hard to connect those things together and realize that there's people out there that actually do research and this type, these type things that have lots of information that could help uh guide your case in a good direction.

Noah Bolmer 30:13

Absolutely. Dr. Charnota, thank you so much for joining me here today.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

No problem, man. Glad I helped it. It was very interesting. I tell you, it's just a learning process the whole time. Nice to meet you, man. Have a good one.

Thanks And Where To Find Notes

Noah Bolmer 30:24

And thank you as always to our listeners for joining us for another edition of Engaging Experts. Cheers.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Thank you for listening to our podcast, Engaging Experts. Our show notes are available on our website, roundtable group.com.