Discipleship Is Not Optional. Here's Why the Church Keeps Treating It Like It Is.

How can we lead with humility and foster genuine connections in a world full of superficiality? Join us in this insightful episode as we chat with pastors Erin and Jordan Smalley about the profound shift towards authenticity and deep faith among today's youth. Sharing their rich experiences from leading young adults at the Austin Peay Campus and the Gathering, the Smalleys illustrate the movement away from flashy services to meaningful engagements through prayer, scripture, and intimate conversations.

Lastly, we explore the transformative power of discipleship through personal stories and real-life examples. From the challenges of leading others to the joys of seeing lives changed, we discuss how authentic relationships and everyday actions play a critical role in spiritual growth. Whether you're a seasoned believer or new to the faith, this episode encourages you to invest deeply in discipleship, emphasizing the importance of vulnerability, humility, and living out your faith authentically in all aspects of life.

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:03

Oh man, here we go. Hey, what's up everybody, and welcome to Worship and Leadership by LivePoint Creative. My name is Elmer Canas Jr and, like always, it's a privilege to be able to spend this time together with you in the studio today. Like always, the one, the only, the illustrious Willie C Simpson Jr.

Speaker 3 0:23

What's up? It's your boy, willie C, representing LBC for JC on the one.

Speaker 1 0:30

Man, this is our new intro song, so we're going to be rapping a lot at the beginning. Hey, we're kicking off season three today and we're so glad that we are joined today by the amazing pastors Aaron and Jordan Smalley.

Speaker 3 0:46

What's?

Speaker 1 0:47

up. What's up?

Speaker 4 0:48

Yeah.

Speaker 1 0:49

And we're so glad Look there's even people outside the window. Look at that.

Speaker 3 0:52

Yep, look at that man. They banging on the door trying to get up in here. What a crowd. They want an autograph man.

Speaker 4 0:57

That's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying, what's up?

Speaker 2 1:00

Hey, we're excited you guys are here. That was a sound effect.

Speaker 4 1:02

For anybody listening. There was nobody banging on the screen.

Speaker 1 1:06

They don't know that bro.

Speaker 3 1:07

They don't know that, jordan Well yeah, that's true, oh man.

Speaker 1 1:10

Hey, we're so glad that you guys are here. Today's topic is on humility.

Speaker 4 1:13

We're talking about humility Giving it away.

Speaker 3 1:16

Come on, aaron, just giving all the Hollywood secrets away. Man, sorry, sorry, sorry about that. Well, praise the Lord, can't put Jordan on production team. No, we can't do that. That's my bad. He'll tell everyone, telling everybody.

Speaker 1 1:29

Yeah, you know that worship leader uses auto-tune. You know he said ain't nothing but auto-tune.

Speaker 3 1:32

That's not even him saying it, it's pre-, that's really changing all these songs.

Speaker 2 1:42

They're lip syncing.

Speaker 3 1:43

We got a defamation lawsuit right now.

Speaker 1 1:44

We got a class action lawsuit.

Speaker 3 1:47

We're breaching contract, milly.

Speaker 1 1:48

Benilly man, milly Benilly. I didn't even say Milly, I said Benilly Benilly. Yeah, milly Benilly. Oh man, hey, we're excited you guys are here. Yeah, thank you guys for kicking off the season with us.

Speaker 1 2:02

And today's topic is on discipleship and we're going to title this podcast why Discipleship. And I love what you guys do, pastor Jordan and Aaron, in discipling our next generation. You guys are Austin Peak Campus pastors and also you guys lead the gathering, our young adults ministry here at LifePoint Church and can you guys just tell us some of the things that you guys are seeing in this next generation, these young adults, the hunger that they have for God, what you guys are witnessing and as you're leading them?

Speaker 4 2:33

Yeah, I think you know we've been doing the gathering now for a little over two years and we, just as a campus on Sunday technically it's this Thursday we've been on Austin Peay's campus, having Austin Peay campus for three years, which has been really cool. And so, yeah, I think the biggest thing that we're seeing right now and what we've seen with the gathering like you mentioned there, pastor Elmer I think there's been just a hunger for a lot of our young adults. Just there's been a hunger to grow closer to the Lord, to grow deeper in their walk with the Lord, to know more of who God is. I think so much of it has gotten a lot more intimate. I think so many young adults are craving across-the-table conversations, sitting at tables around meals, and I think, too, they're just not wanting kind of the fluff stuff anymore.

Speaker 4 3:26

They're just they're truly wanting to know, all right, who is. Who is Jesus? How do I follow him? What does that look like, you know? And so that's a lot of what we're seeing right now.

Speaker 5 3:36

Yeah, yeah, from my, from my perspective. No, I agree with that. I think that they're really craving authenticity, and that is a need more than ever. Um, they're not craving um a show, they're not craving something that is, you know, that wow factor. They're creating something that is real a place where they can let their guard down and feel safe. Um, I would also say, you know like deconstruction is a big hot topic right now.

Speaker 3 4:04

Absolutely.

Speaker 5 4:05

And I'm not saying that that isn't happening Sure, because it definitely is. But we sense and see more of a hunger for the truth, now more than ever, right. So we're not really seeing that, you know, that deconstruction of people leaving the church and deconstructing their faith. We're seeing young adults and college students come to want to build up their faith.

Speaker 3 4:30

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 5 4:30

So really more of a reconstruction, a reconstruction of their faith and maybe building off of not just what their parents taught them or what they were raised with, but truth for themselves, their own genuine faith and authentic relationship with Jesus. They're hungry for that. That's so good. I love that as you're saying this.

Speaker 1 4:52

I remember myself going through my discipleship process with my youth leader named Mark and it was all prayer and scripture and it was like, hey, wake up at six in the morning, I'm going to pick you up. We had prayer every day at church and it was led by our youth ministry, our students, and it was all grassroots stuff. And as I got older, I think our generation really, as we barely make the cut for millennials and I think our generation we fell in love with Jesus and then we wanted to make everything so relevant that it became about the lights and the smoke and the big bands and all that stuff and we wanted to attract the next generation versus disciple them, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 5:39

And we got away from the grassroots prayer and, hey, let's do the hard things and let's sit at a table, let's have a meal. And we just said, hey, let's do the hard things and let's sit at a table let's have a meal, and we just said, hey, let's just bring everyone to church. And Sundays became this great expression of what we believe in. But then we got away from the accountability and all the things that we want to talk about today. Yeah, well, to your point.

Speaker 3 5:57

Yeah, I think with our generation we saw the rise of the seeker-sensitive movement, and so then you saw this emphasis on casting a wide net, which again not bad, because Jesus talks about the parables of the fishermen casting this wide net, but we forget the backside of that parable, where you have to have people to catch and clean the fish. And so I think what we did was we sacrificed depth for width. It was only about numbers and man. Okay, man, we want to fill this place again, which is great because the church must be evangelistic 100%. But when you talk about theology you have to go wide and then you have to go deep.

Speaker 3 6:34

I mean, for goodness sakes, in Ephesians we talk about the five-foot ministry. That's for the edifying of the church, not for the edifying of the lost. You win the lost, the Holy Spirit converts the lost, but then we have to disciple the now saved. And so, to your point, what I have seen, even with our own generation, is that we just don't know how to disciple, because we've seen this large-scale shift to say all we want to do is get the doors open and want to do whatever it takes to bring as many people in, and I love that. But we now have to say the people that we have brought in, Jesus said in the Great Commission, which he's the model for it go and make disciples, not converts. Number one Not programs, Not programs. Come on somebody.

Speaker 3 7:16

Come on, go and make disciples comma. How do you make a disciple? He says, teaching them to obey everything I've taught you. So now we're talking about this transference of truth. We have the truth. This person is newly saved, they're discovering the truth, they know Jesus is the truth. But now, okay, well, how do I live out this truth? Well, let me teach you what that looks like. And it's just like what you talked about, pastor man. It's simple, it's crockpot, it's not microwave, it's smaller scale, it's deep, it's close.

Speaker 3 7:47

And we have to and I think we're doing this the church must recapture that model for discipleship, because that's the only true one that actually works. I mean, how do you take 12 men? Jesus does ministry to thousands, pours into 12 men, had a special, unique relationship with three, but he pours into these 12 men and they're going to change the world. How do you do that? They have a depth of experience. They know exactly, I mean, when Jesus ascended back to heaven, the only instruction they had one instruction wait in Jerusalem In the book of Acts. Just wait in Jerusalem for the promise of the Father, which is the Holy Spirit. They are filled with the Holy Spirit, they're saved and immediately, like they're not looking around, like they're not looking around, okay.

Speaker 3 8:21

Well, what do we do? They don't exactly do, because they've had this three-year training program with a rabbi, with Jesus, the rabbi of all rabbis, and they go right out and they just preach Christ. Right, peter does the first miracle recorded in the New Testament. Hey, he says gold and silver have I none, but such as I have I give to you. Like that is how deeply rooted they were in the gospel truth. He just knew in the name of Jesus, and I think that's the essence of discipleship your life will be changed in the name of Jesus. You will learn how to live for God in the name of Jesus, and we have to get back to that.

Speaker 2 8:57

And you guys are modeling that great with our young adults, and so thank you for it. Well, we're learning a lot still. Yes, every day.

Speaker 1 9:04

Absolutely, we all do, and so we're going to dive into our first question, which is why discipleship? Why is discipleship vital for a follower of Christ?

Speaker 3 9:14

Yes.

Speaker 1 9:14

There's all these misconceptions that discipleship is educational which it is.

Speaker 3 9:19

It is, you are learning, yeah.

Speaker 1 9:20

Or that you know it's only for a certain season in life and then, once you become mature in Christ, you don't need discipleship. But why is it vital for the follower of Christ? As a baby Christian, and even for someone that you might have been growing up in church? What are those things? How do they look like? Maybe one of you all want to kick it off.

Speaker 4 9:42

So why is discipleship important?

Speaker 3 9:43

Yeah, why is it vital?

Speaker 4 9:44

Yeah oh my gosh. Well, I think it's a center command. Jesus said I think we might have already referenced it in Luke 9, 23, if anybody would come after me, let him deny himself, take what's crossed daily and follow me. And so I just think it's important, because it's the call of every Christian by Jesus to be a disciple, to follow Jesus. And I just think, like I think, in talking discipleship, john Mark Comer talks about this in his book Practicing the Way, which is great, but he talks about how we're all discipled by something. We live in a world today where, man, we're always trying to be discipled by something. We have so much stuff screaming at us all the time, and I just think it's so important for us as Christians to lean into the voice of Jesus, the words of Jesus, to be discipled so we can grow and mature. So what?

Speaker 1 10:46

you're saying is we're all, even if you didn't sign up for discipleship something is shaping us, something is yeah, absolutely, yep, yep, absolutely.

Speaker 3 10:56

What does that look like? That's actually a very powerful spiritual principle. It's a powerful spiritual truth. We're all being led by something or someone, so that means the one word I'm thinking of is influence. We had talked through that during last season's podcast. We're being influenced by someone or something, whether we realize it or not. Every day I heard this quote. Every day we're getting an education. Every day we're being taught how to live according to some standard. So, aaron, I want you to speak through the importance of being disciples, since we're all being discipled, the importance of being discipled in the right way and by the right influence, because, again, you're leading and pastoring young adults and so can you just speak to the ways that you have to really help them guard against unwise and ungodly influences in their discipleship journey.

Speaker 5 11:49

Yeah, well, I think influence is everything right, like you're saying.

Speaker 2 11:53

Yeah.

Speaker 5 11:54

There's a story that they share about in Keys to Freedom, which is a phenomenal small group that we offer here at LifePoint, and they give this analogy. There was a mother, you know this dog that had these puppies, but she was hit by a car and they tried to, you know, bandage her up, get her back functioning, but she had some like ailments still. She still had some repercussions to her injuries and so her puppies began to watch her walk and she didn't walk on all of her, all four of her legs. She drug her back legs and the puppies began. They were healthy puppies, um, but the puppies began to drag their back legs when they were learning to walk and they were healthy.

Speaker 5 12:42

They didn't have anything wrong with them, but their influence, their mother, had something wrong with them, and so I think that that really gives us an image, truly, of what influence does to us. Wow, a practical example of if we're going to all of the wrong influences, whether that's culture, whether that's social media, whether that is you know, you're a student in the classroom and learning about things that just are not uplifting to the faith.

Speaker 3 13:10

Sure yeah.

Speaker 5 13:12

You will be influenced by that, and you will quickly become what you're influenced by, and so it's really important that you are influenced by what the Word of God says, and that is your lens in which you're viewing your growth and your journey and your discipleship journey.

Speaker 5 13:30

If you don't have people in your life that are influencing you in the things of God, you will quickly fall to the things that aren't of God. So it's important that you are being discipled in the word, you're being discipled in prayer, worship, everything that Jesus led excuse me, his disciples to do. Those are the things that we need to be discipled in. And so a disciple right is a student. Are we a student after the things of Jesus? You know, jesus said in Matthew 11, 28, very famous passage. But in the message it says come, follow me, watch how I do it. That's Jesus talking.

Speaker 5 14:09

So, that's how I view discipleship. From that lens of Jesus is saying come, follow me, watch how I do it, and that's how we need to disciple others. And so that influence is extremely important, because if it's not a good influence, you'll end up, you know, astray and doing things that you never wanted to do. And that's not just for the young adult or college student, right, that's for everybody on the planet. You know it doesn't matter how old you are. You will begin to follow your influences.

Speaker 4 14:40

And I think, too, like we live in a you know your influences, and I think, too, like we live in an age where information is at our fingertips. Yes, I mean you can find information on anything, and we were talking about this yesterday, Pastor Willie, with you a little bit about articles and different podcasts and things that we're listening to and influencing.

Speaker 4 14:59

But again, going back to a disciple, a disciple is a student and we are all students under Jesus, and so it's so important for us, like it's just. I mean, we, you know, specifically with young adults, you know, tiktok is all over the place and that's where. So many.

Speaker 4 15:14

Yeah, tiktok theology that's where a lot of young people are hearing and they're getting truth and they're kind of going okay, I'm hearing, this, is that true? And then they start to form kind of what they believe to be true about Jesus around something they saw on TikTok and it's like we have to get back to opening up Scripture sitting down with people and going okay, I know what you might have read in an article.

Speaker 4 15:36

I know what somebody else might have said. I know what you might have seen on TikTok, whatever, but this is what Scripture says. This is what Jesus said right here. Absolutely. That's great. I think that's really important too. Come on.

Speaker 5 15:52

I'm kind of going back. Pastor Willie, we had a conversation yesterday in the lobby about a specific topic and when it comes to theology, we do this, we come up with an idea and we search scripture to try to support our idea. Well, that's what we do as well when we're trying to figure out. What do I believe, what do I want to do, what is all of what do I, I, I?

Speaker 5 16:11

It's all about us and we don't go to scripture. And discipleship is all about going to the scripture first and going to like, okay, well, what does the word of God have to say? And then that's actually going to form how I live what. I say and the rest?

Speaker 1 16:25

all of that.

Speaker 5 16:26

And so going to scripture first.

Speaker 1 16:27

Yes, yeah, we tend to make decisions and we tend to map out our life and our path before we even go to the Lord. So, we're like halfway down our own journey and then we're like God where do you want me to go, Right or left?

Speaker 2 16:43

He's like I don't even want you to be on this path, and so it's very true All that.

Speaker 1 16:46

Are you going to say something?

Speaker 4 16:47

No, no, I just I think that's. I just think again, going back to what we were saying about a lot of young adults, they're hungry for truth. And I just think we, you know, are living in a culture today and especially, I think, with young adults, that we're seeing is there is a hunger. They especially, I think, with young adults, that we're- seeing is there is a hunger.

Speaker 3 17:05

They're like I'm hearing this, I'm seeing this, but what's the truth?

Speaker 4 17:07

And I think what an amazing opportunity for the church, for us, to sit down and go. Well, let me help you, let me show you, let me walk, and Christians, let's walk through this together. Let me show you what that looks like.

Speaker 3 17:18

So I want to ask this because I know that there are other young adult slash, youth or college leaders listening on our podcast. And again we thank you all for tuning in whenever you guys do to help support our podcast and get the word out, because we want to resource leaders and we want to grow and develop leaders. And again I've had the privilege of being a part and supporting you guys and coming to speak to the young people.

Speaker 1 17:45

Cousin Willie, cousin Willie, come on, I love it when Cousin Willie comes On Tuesdays at the Gathering. Is he allowed 40-year-olds?

Speaker 3 17:51

Yeah, absolutely, man. What? Because I'm the older cousin. You know what I'm saying? I'm the older, wiser cousin.

Speaker 4 17:56

You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 17:58

That's right and again, I love everything that you all are doing. You guys are amazing at developing and raising up a team and being so pastoral. But there may be some people listening to say, okay, practically speaking, what tools, what resources are available for us? So can you just kind of give people sort of a peek behind the veil of some resources that you use to effectively disciple, Because discipleship is relational but it is also systematic. You know we have to have a pipeline to be effective.

Speaker 3 18:30

So what are some resources that you use to help? So you've shared some with me, but what are some resources that you use and actually practically disciple your folks?

Speaker 5 18:39

Yeah Well, one right now specifically is the Purple Book.

Speaker 2 18:44

It is a great resource.

Speaker 3 18:45

Yes.

Speaker 5 18:46

You can find it on Amazon Really inexpensive, super simple. But it goes over the fundamental beliefs. It's basically basic doctrine.

Speaker 3 18:54

Yes.

Speaker 5 18:55

Essentially, and it lays it out in a very practical, simple way.

Speaker 2 19:01

Right.

Speaker 5 19:02

And it's great to take one-on-one, take somebody through, go chapter by chapter, go through it on your own time and then come back and talk about it. That creates great conversation. You can also do it in a small group as well, but I'm finding that that is a really great resource because, when it comes to getting the truth, of the word of God in you.

Speaker 5 19:23

A lot of people don't know the basics, they don't know the fundamentals, and that is where we need to start, because it's our job as leaders, as pastors, as people that are discipling people, is to really gauge where they're at in their walk.

Speaker 3 19:37

They may have accepted Jesus.

Speaker 5 19:39

They may believe in Jesus and all of that, but they don't know everything that is available to them as a child of God and God's word.

Speaker 3 19:48

What God's?

Speaker 5 19:49

word says, and they also just don't know how to have those conversations outside of identifying as a Christian.

Speaker 3 19:56

I identify as a.

Speaker 2 19:56

Christian.

Speaker 5 19:59

I know he died for me. I'm saved.

Speaker 3 20:02

A lot of time that stops. It stops there.

Speaker 5 20:05

And so I find, specifically the Purple Book has been a really great resource I love it.

Speaker 3 20:11

That's great, jordan. Before I throw it to you, pastor Aaron, you said something very key about they just don't know. Hey, let's start with the basics. And I think about I think it's Mark, chapter four.

Speaker 3 20:21

Jesus is telling the parable the very first parable, kind of recorded in regards to the parable of the sower, about the seed falling on the different types of soil and his followers. They come to him. Well, what does all this mean? And the very first statement he makes is he says are you also without understanding? Like the crowd left. And he's like well, you guys are following me, are you also without understanding? And he says if you don't, you won't even understand the rest he's giving them a glimpse into.

Speaker 3 20:47

Okay, this new kingdom is coming, this avant-garde kingdom, this upside-down kingdom I'm teaching on. If you don't get this foundational teaching, the rest of it won't make sense to you. And you're right, that's discipleship. If you don't get these foundational principles, the world, what's happening in the world, your experience, god, it won't make any sense. And, pastor Jordan, I know you're a huge fan, as most of us on the team, all of us on the team are, of Rooted, yeah, and so Purple Book's great for one-on-one or small groups, but that's the way we disciple as LifePoint Church. We disciple through small groups.

Speaker 2 21:20

Yeah.

Speaker 3 21:21

And so can you talk through how you've employed, Rooted there and then explain for those who are like well, what is?

Speaker 4 21:28

Rooted, just kind of talk through that. Yeah, I would encourage anybody listening that's either connected to our church, lifepoint, or you're a part of a church that does Rooted. I mean I would highly encourage Rooted to any person. Matter of fact, I tell everybody, as a first step, if they've never been a part of a small group they're wanting to grow in their discipleship journey, their walk with the Lord. I always say 100% rooted Because I just think it's. I think I would say, as a church, rooted is from a discipleship perspective, just from a practical discipleship perspective. I think rooted is the best curriculum that we offer for people and I just think rooted is just a great foundational place to start when you look at just building your life as a follower of Jesus. It really keys in on a lot of kind of the fundamentals of who Jesus is, who's God, what's my life about, why?

Speaker 4 22:22

does my life matter, what's my purpose, all that kind of stuff. So all of Rooted is very discipleship focused and so I would just I mean we took I don't know how many young adults through and just the impact that the 10 weeks 10 or 12 weeks that we've had on their life is absolutely profound and had a ripple effect.

Speaker 4 22:42

And now those people that came to that are now, now that they have an understanding, like, oh my gosh, this is who I am in Christ you walk through. I mean dealing with just your own baggage, your own stuff.

Speaker 4 22:54

That's all a part of it too. Yes, sir, and so just so many people. After going through that and just having their eyes open, oh my gosh, now I have a basic understanding of who I am in Christ, what God's plan is for my life, what my purpose is. So many people now that's been a ripple effect. Now they're leading others, they're leading small groups, so it really is a catalyst.

Speaker 4 23:15

I think Rooted is it's kind of really a kickstart for a lot of people and again you could be a new believer or you could have been following Jesus for 30 years. I think Rooted would be a benefit to you. We've been through it a lot. We love it. Come on.

Speaker 3 23:28

Yeah, when my wife and I started attending LifePoint in 2017, that following year, we were asked to be a part of a small pilot group. We were just on the dream team. I wasn't on staff or anything like that, but we were just invited by a staff member to be a part of a pilot group and we would meet on Tuesdays. And I remember I mean, halfway through I was like man, this is the best thing, like every church should be doing this. I'd never heard of anything like it that was so focused and in-depth.

Speaker 2 23:56

I mean you're doing five nights of scripture reading a week.

Speaker 3 23:57

Over 10 weeks, that's 50 nights of scripture reading, and if that don't change, oh my God, I don't know what to do.

Speaker 2 24:04

The light's on, but ain't no one upstairs there.

Speaker 3 24:05

Brother, it's true, yeah but ain't no one upstairs there, brother, it's true yeah. And I remember at the end of it and we looked at each other like no, we're going to lead it. And my wife and I led it like three more times after that because we were just like rooted fanatics and so we offered at our church. I mean there's nothing else going on at LifePoint Church during the week. Root is going to be going on.

Speaker 3 24:30

And so those of you who are like, well, how do I get to Rooted? I'm glad you asked you go visit experiencerootedcom, experiencerootedcom, and there you can buy a starter kit and they'll give you everything that you need. If you guys want to reach out to our team here, you can go to smallgroups at lifepointchurchtv and we'll get you connected. We have tons of resources to help you get started. But, like Pastor Jordan said, if you want to disciple your church, well, if you want to disciple your people, your ministry, your home, start with Rudy I agree with you.

Speaker 3 25:00

Pastor Jordan, I don't know of any other curriculum that is as enriching, as easy to employ and as as discipleship focused as Rudy did.

Speaker 1 25:10

Let me say this, I'm sorry. So resources are great and you can have the greatest book ever, but if you, as the mediator, or the one that's making disciples, you're the one calling people in. If your life doesn't reflect what you're teaching, that's going to really affect how people are Cause. I've been in classes where you have great content and material.

Speaker 2 25:30

Right.

Speaker 1 25:31

But you have professors that are like, open your book to page and you just fall asleep and you don't remember anything. You don't remember anything. I'm like I was so excited about this class.

Speaker 5 25:39

I was that student.

Speaker 2 25:40

Yeah.

Speaker 1 25:41

I took political science in college.

Speaker 2 25:43

And.

Speaker 1 25:43

I sat right in front of the teacher and I was so excited about it. I don't know why I was excited and I ended up. Just every day I'd fall asleep. It was seven in the morning every Thursday and I'd just sit right in front of the teacher and fall asleep.

Speaker 2 25:55

And.

Speaker 3 25:55

I don't remember anything about the class I passed the class, but again like.

Speaker 1 26:00

and then that's the challenge for us, as individuals Like. So resources are great, but then we have to lead as well as leaders and we have to be led well as well. And then I want to segue into. Like discipleship is something we should all be on this path of being led and becoming disciples of Christ. The goal is not to fulfill a list or checklist. It's to become more like Christ. That's the trajectory, that's the goal. That's just becoming more like him. Every opportunity we get yeah, yeah. But it doesn't happen easily.

Speaker 3 26:33

It does not.

Speaker 1 26:34

And maybe we can share some stories. I don't know if you guys are willing to, Just, you know it gets messy.

Speaker 3 26:40

It does, it hurts yeah.

Speaker 1 26:42

There's times you invest so much into people and it ends up, you know, you're like, oh man, and people just turn away and walk away, and you know. And let's talk about those realities. Absolutely, it's not all, it's not all. Gumdrops and gummy bears.

Speaker 3 26:54

No, it's not all gumdrops and sunshine and rainbows.

Speaker 2 26:57

No, it's not.

Speaker 3 26:59

I do remember, you know, years ago, when I felt the Lord calling me in the ministry, a former pastor would tell me, in regards to leading people, he was talking more in the context of shepherding, but it's still discipleship. He would say, son, shepherds smell like sheep. And he encouraged me like go research the life of a shepherd, right, Like people should know. They're going to know. I mean you have, I mean, the sheep. They're messy animals. I mean they're dirty, You're going to get their hair on them, You're going to get their vomit, their poop. I mean you're going to smell like sheep. And that is ministry life, 100% to the core. You're right, Discipleship is messy. And just a real quick story. I remember the very first time that I did some pastoral care for a married couple. We were living in Alabama, in God's country, roadside and it's quiet.

Speaker 4 27:50

Oh, now it's crickets okay, man, we need the cricket sound here. Anyway, listen, road tied.

Speaker 2 27:58

Even the crickets agree. No, that's the cricket see.

Speaker 3 28:01

Road tied Anyway, oh my.

Speaker 4 28:07

We ain't discipling people to be Alabama fans. Oh man, I'm hurt. Oh no, oh my.

Speaker 3 28:09

We ain't discipling people to be Alabama fans. Oh man, I'm hurt. Oh no, oh no.

Speaker 5 28:14

Oh, my heart. Of course you did that. Oh, it's a word that is hilarious.

Speaker 3 28:21

I remember the very first couple that my wife and I met with to walk them through marriage counseling and you know we had gotten some basic, very basic training. But I remember man things. You know we did eight sessions with them. We went with them for eight weeks and it was like intense. I didn't have nothing but the word. I was like, hey, we're just going to go through this line by line. We're going to look at Scripture.

Speaker 3 28:45

And these jokers messed around. They got divorced, like like three weeks later, and I was crushed. I was absolutely, because it was like up down, up down. But I remember on the eighth session, man, they were like thank you so much. Y'all have been amazing, this, this. And that I was like man, praise God, we're praying with them. I mean we were like celebrating and three weeks later husband texts me.

Speaker 3 29:04

He's like man, appreciate everything you've done. You know it's going to be bad when they say that I appreciate everything you've done, comma. But man, she just gave me the papers, you know. And it was like I mean, I was devastated, I'm going inward, making it all about me, I'm moping and stuff. And I remember I talked to my pastor then about it and the very first thing he said was he said, Willie, we did counseling with a couple for a year and they still got divorced. And he's like he said, if I were to put everything on the wall, if I were keeping score, he said I'm batting below 500 on this Because at the end of the day, the folks have to choose to want to follow Christ, they have to choose to want to submit their lives.

Speaker 3 29:46

You had read it earlier unless you take up your cross daily, you got to die to yourself. You can't be. You can't be my disciple, and that's the messiness of it. Yeah, it is, but it was still encouraging because I realized no, it doesn't rest upon me, I'm not, I'm not. You don't have to be results oriented. I want to lead you to that.

Speaker 4 30:06

Yeah, absolutely yeah. I just you know, like you guys have already said, I read a quote. Francis Chan said discipleship's not a sprint, it's a marathon, and I just think that's so true. I think it's not. Discipleship doesn't happen overnight, it happens over a lifetime. I mean, we're all, all of us. We're never going to get to a point in our life, any time in our lives, where we're going to just say I'm good. I'm perfect, I've achieved, I've attained full discipleship.

Power of Discipleship Through Relationship

Speaker 4 30:31

I mean we're all being growing as disciples until the day we die. So it's a marathon, it's not a sprint, and I think it's messy. I think discipleship is going the long haul with people and I think that's one thing that we've learned. I just think one thing that we have to remember too in discipleship and discipling people like you said, pastor Willie, it's not my job to change people, it's God's job to change people, and I'm just making myself available. I'm pointing people, not to myself, but I'm pointing people to Him, and it's God's job to do that transforming and changing. And, like you said, I think that's a really. I heard Pastor once say we're trying to disciple people without a desire to be discipled. So I mean that desire, even in that Luke text. Yeah, it's if anybody wants to follow me or come after me. So that desire has to be there in order for somebody to be. I think we get frustrated all the time. I mean, especially, we've been around it for so long with people of like why is this not happening? Why?

Speaker 3 31:28

are they not?

Speaker 5 31:29

We see the potential In discipleship especially we've been around it for so long with people of like why is this not happening?

Speaker 4 31:33

Why are they not, you know, in discipleship, yeah, in discipleship, yeah, yeah. You start to. You start to want things more for somebody than they want it for themselves, absolutely. Discipleship, but that desire has to be there, you know, to want to be discipled, and it and it's messy, and it's messy, and again, discipleship's a long haul, and that's one thing that we're figuring out too and realizing God keeps reminding us of we had water baptisms a couple weekends ago and 240, some people got water baptized.

Speaker 4 31:58

We got to baptize a girl. That just a wild story, and it was just. I remember the Holy Spirit whispered to me as she was getting out of the water. I just remember the Holy Spirit whispering to me.

Speaker 4 32:08

That's why we don't give up on people and I just think, as followers of Jesus, as disciples, we can never give up on people because you have no idea when it's going to click for them. You have no idea when that's going to, all that's going to come together and they're going to start really. You might invest in somebody for years and you just, my gosh, what is happening? I keep sitting with you and talking, but that's just where discipleship is messy. It's a long haul. Yeah, it's a marathon.

Speaker 1 32:36

I recently I don't know it might have been last year I went home to LA, not lower Alabama, the real LA, los Angeles, california.

Speaker 3 32:45

West Coast, West Coast oh.

Speaker 1 32:47

Lord and I got to hang out with the guys from my old youth group okay and they're all much older than than I was um, than I am um, but I I always hung out with older people, and this gentleman that I mentioned earlier, mark, like he was there and I remember telling him mark, I will thank you for everything you invested in me.

Speaker 1 33:06

And like I don't think I'd be who I am today if it wasn't for you, yeah, and, and for him it was like, oh, cool, like I don't remember everything wow, because he was just, he was just serving me as, just out of his passion, he was loving me just as a student I remember being 15, 16, 17 when he was leading me on this journey, and so it wasn't extra effort for him, and now I'm like. I'm like, mark, thank you so much Like like you know, master Ooglay you know Kung Fu.

Speaker 1 33:35

Panda and he's like, oh cool, that's awesome. Like I didn't realize I had that much of an impact in your life. And I think sometimes, when we think of this making disciples, we almost have to. We feel like, oh, we have to attain a certain level of spirituality and when reality, it's like we've said it before you just have to be one step ahead of the other person.

Speaker 1 33:55

And just be yourself. Even as a disciple maker, you're not going to be perfect and a lot of times, like you talked about the disciples, they weren't perfect and discipleship is not about perfection. Pastor Jordan mentioned that it's about being on this path and choosing to live this lifestyle you know, and then follow Jesus, and it's a decision we make every day to pick up our cross daily, and you know, and so I just remember this conversation with Mark and he's like, oh, cool, awesome.

Speaker 1 34:24

Just the humility and like, but his goal wasn't to turn me into anything.

Speaker 2 34:30

His goal was just to lead me.

Speaker 1 34:31

Yep, wow, and I think that's one thing that we have to recognize as we're leading other people. Our goal is not to change people.

Speaker 3 34:37

Yeah, that's up to the Holy Spirit. Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 34:39

But that's why it's important for us to be led. It's important for us to spend time with God to be focused on developing our scripture and our prayer life all these things because other people are watching.

Speaker 1 34:55

And there's people in our lives, especially in what we get to do, being in front of people as pastors, that we may never have a conversation with them. Yes, sir, and our lives from a distance are making an impact in them, and there's people for those, listening. You could be going to work every day not realizing that the person a few cubicles down they're being impacted by your lifestyle and the decisions you're making, the music you're listening to indirectly, absolutely, and this is a truth that is so good.

Speaker 3 35:26

Pastor Elmer, you're right. It's the old adage some things are taught, most things are caught right. The Apostle Paul told the Corinthian church he says you're living letters being read of men, and people will read our lives long before they read the Bible. And yes, that's a sobering reminder, but it also is an encouragement. You don't have to put on some cape and put on a facade, no, no, just live out the truth of the gospel.

Speaker 4 35:52

It's the Apostle Paul said follow me as I follow Christ.

Speaker 4 35:54

Yes, right I mean that's all we're doing. We're inviting people to go on a journey with us, as we're following Jesus, too, absolutely. And so I think that's a but. I think, pastor Elmo, that's a powerful, because I think all of us are sitting here today because somebody, somebody pulled us under their wings, somebody pulled us in close and said, hey, let's get coffee, let's talk, let me walk you through.

Speaker 4 36:32

So we're all a result of that, and I just think, like you know, for maybe the person that's listening to this because you know, we all get the privilege of serving in a pastoral role in a church and that's great, but just for the average everyday Christian that is getting up and going to a job that maybe they don't see is man, I'm not pastoring, I'm not working for a church, but just don't underestimate the one person God's put in front of you. Don't underestimate the one person that God's put in your path that you can just say, hey, come, hang out with me, come over to my house, let's have dinner, let's go get coffee, let's do life, let's talk about what God's doing in your life. Let me share with you about what God's doing in my life. That's great.

Impactful Discipleship Through Everyday Life

Speaker 1 37:03

So just don't underestimate what you were saying, because you just have no idea. That's great. I'm thinking of, like people in our church that they're bus drivers Yep. People in our church that they're teachers.

Speaker 3 37:12

Yes.

Speaker 1 37:12

You know, and they're doing their job, but as they're doing their job, they're leading these younger kids. Yes, they're influencing them.

Speaker 3 37:19

They're influencing them. Yeah, there are people who are single parents.

Speaker 2 37:29

Hey, can I tell you, right now you have little disciples in your home.

Speaker 3 37:31

I heard this quote years ago. There is no junior varsity Christianity, ain't no JV Christianity. It's not like, well, I'm only doing Christian things, I'm only working for the Lord on Sundays, when I'm serving on a dream team or if I'm on staff. No, no, no man. When you're reading your kids a bedtime story, when you're praying over your children, when you're telling your kid you love them, when you're apologizing, hey, can you forgive, mommy? Can you forgive? That's all discipleship. You're teaching those around you, you're influencing them. This is how the people of God live. This is how the people of God work. This is what the people of God prioritize. And kids see that. Neighbors see that, coworkers see that. Students see that. Classmates see that Neighbors see that Total strangers see all of this. And I want to encourage you. Your lives are being there on full display. Jesus said in Matthew 5 that we are salt and light. So I kind of encourage you don't hide your light.

Speaker 3 38:16

Shine your light brightly and be encouraged that you are influencing as you keep following Jesus. That person may never say a word to you until you go home, until you all both end up in glory, and then they run up to you and say hey, man, thank you, you were the example. When I didn't know who else was leading me to Jesus. I just followed you because I knew you were going to lead me to Jesus.

Speaker 3 38:34

You know, and, like you said, I think I'm just telling you I love Pastor Herman. That is such a good story because I think when we get to heaven we're going to be shocked at how many people were impacted. And I know I'm going to shock a few people because there are people now whose examples I love, just who are just so godly, they're so humble, they're so kind and they're so on fire for Jesus, and I want to tell them I may never be able to tell them now, but I want to tell them in glory thank you for following Christ, because I followed you as you followed Jesus and there are folks following you as you follow Christ 100%.

Speaker 5 39:10

Jesus night yeah, that's amazing. Well, I think our lives too. They were never meant to be lived just for ourselves.

Speaker 3 39:13

Yes, that's right, pastor, yeah.

Speaker 5 39:15

And discipleship is one of the ways where we don't live just for ourselves.

Speaker 2 39:21

Right.

Speaker 5 39:23

We actually follow through with the command to go and make disciples. So we're listening to Jesus, we're being obedient, but we're also giving to others. We're living our life for others.

Speaker 3 39:35

Amen.

Speaker 5 39:37

And so I just think that that's so important too, it's not just for us Come on. And we get so self-centered.

Speaker 3 39:45

Yes.

Speaker 5 39:45

And we get so selfish with our time, our talent, with our treasure. I mean, we could talk about that. That's for another day but, we really are. We can be very selfish, and discipling others takes the focus off of ourselves yeah it does come on because we're serving. That's so true.

Speaker 1 40:02

I've told a lot of people it's really good. Mainly guys in my small group. I'm not calling y'all out in a small group but I've told gentlemen that are just struggling just with like man. I'm tired of you know.

Speaker 1 40:14

This is getting real redundant you know church and even people actively serving in church or even on church staffs. I've told them I'm like, how many people are you investing into? Like, are you pouring yourself out into others? And the majority of the time it's a no. I'm so focused on the task, I'm so focused on doing that I'm not actually pouring out into people and there's this frustration that comes upon them because our life is meant to be spent. And so when we're just, we're just gathering and gathering and gathering and just doing and doing for our own, even if we think we're not selfish but, we're trying to build up our resume or whatever.

Speaker 3 40:53

Yeah.

Speaker 1 40:54

It becomes exhausting because our life wasn't intended to be lived.

Speaker 3 40:57

Yeah, that's right and so.

Speaker 1 40:58

I've challenged these individuals. Every single time I'm like find somebody important to them.

Speaker 2 41:02

Yeah.

Speaker 1 41:03

And as soon as they've taken that step that the ones that have it's like, all of a sudden there's just this relief, because they realize life is so much bigger than just my problems.

Speaker 3 41:14

Cause, the problems might not change.

Speaker 1 41:15

Yes, Perspective change.

Speaker 3 41:17

You're preaching the word there now. I need an organ for that one.

Speaker 4 41:21

And discipleship is inconvenient. Come on now.

Speaker 3 41:23

Yes, it is.

Speaker 4 41:24

It is inconvenient.

Speaker 3 41:25

Come on, sir, it is never on our time it's inconvenient.

Speaker 4 41:28

Come on, sir, it is never on our time, it's never where we want it to be yeah, and if you're truly going to disciple people, you have to be willing to be inconvenient. That's right, you got to be willing to give up time in your schedule.

Speaker 3 41:34

Yes.

Speaker 5 41:37

You got to be willing to whoops. I ran into somebody at the store and now they want to have an hour long conversation about-.

Speaker 3 41:43

Hear things you don't want to hear discipleship is inconvenient, it's not a set.

Speaker 4 41:47

It's not a Sunday Bible school time, although.

Speaker 2 41:50

God uses that.

Speaker 4 41:51

But it's man, it's inconvenient.

Speaker 3 41:53

It's all the time. Yeah, you got to be interruptible. You just have to be interruptible, and that's why, every day, we got to doubt ourselves. I love how you said that. What did you say, nate, about process? It's about something.

Speaker 4 42:03

It was good.

Speaker 1 42:04

Come on.

Speaker 3 42:05

I got to listen to a podcast again today.

Speaker 5 42:06

Here we go, take notes.

Speaker 1 42:11

Yeah, oh man, I was just so focused. You said I need an orgasm. I was looking for the orgasm.

Speaker 3 42:16

I was like, hey, come on, somebody Let me tell you something right now Do not get weary in well-doing, because my Bible tells me in due season, come on somebody Is anybody ready for your due season. You will reap if you faint not. Deuce season is when your season's due Come on. Come on, Pastor Jordan. When's the deuce season? Again? When the season's due, Come on somebody. I feel like somebody, come on, come on. Oh, this is so cool.

Speaker 1 42:47

All right, we're coming. Oh, this is so cool.

Speaker 2 42:49

All right, all right, we're coming to the end of our podcast, but let me ask this question real quick.

Speaker 1 42:55

So there are misconceptions of discipleship in the fact that, oh hey, I go to church, that's my discipleship. Pastor Mike disciples me from the platform or so-and-so. I listen to this preacher and there is some sense of growing and learning when you're in community, because there is something about community. That's why we say the best thing we do is small groups. And there's something that happens. There is a discipleship factor that happens there. But then there's something different when you're able to have that one-on-one that you know, just two-type

Speaker 3 43:25

more intimate environment.

Speaker 1 43:27

Can we talk about that real quick?

Speaker 3 43:30

Yeah, type more intimate environment. Can we talk about that real quick? Yeah.

Speaker 3 43:31

So I mean that's the Paul to Timothy principle. I mean Paul's an apostle, so I mean he's overseeing multiple churches, he's planting churches, and that's what apostles do. He's setting order for multiple churches. You have the church of Ephesus, galatia, corinth, philippi. But now he's got Timothy though. Yeah, and he's pouring into Timothy. He writes two letters to Timothy specifically, but you see, in the book of Acts he's taking him along his missionary journey and he's discipling him. Why? Because God has this path for Timothy. He's going to lead this church in Ephesus. It's a city that's rooted and steeped in paganism and Timothy is able to be successful because he's led so well by Apostle Paul. Paul is shepherding him, and so you're right, pastor Graham.

Speaker 3 44:16

I mean, again, when I think through discipleship, I mean you have to think small and honestly, I think you have to think through the one. I think, even from a biblical model, I think true, discipleship happens one-on-one. I really do, especially with how you've all described it. It's the long game. You're being interruptible, you're talking about getting deep. I mean I heard you mention one guy, mark, and I think, again, it's funny because one of the men who pastored me or who discipled me, his name is Mark, mark Welch Mark and Karen. Shout out Murray, kentucky, new Life Church. Shout out to all the Marks out there, all the Marks, you're amazing. And then there was another guy. His name was Michael, but it was singular. Shout out if your name starts with M. Hey, if your name starts with M, you get a car. No, I'm kidding, all the M's get a car. But it was depth, it's singular, it's focused, it's close, it's intimate, there's vulnerability, there's trust and I just think, biblically speaking, that is a one-on-one model. It's the Paul to Timothy model.

Powerful Impact of Individual Discipleship

Speaker 3 45:24

So I think you're absolutely right, pastor Elmer, and I want to encourage anybody just start with the one, just start with one. Don't think about discipling a whole neighborhood, or even discipling your whole family, discipling your whole place of business, your whole football team, your whole school. No, no, no. Start with one. That is how the church grew. It grew one disciple at a time. That's right, yep. In Acts 2.42, it says that daily, the Lord added to their assembly those that were being saved, and I think it was because people were going out and they were just inviting one at a time. Hey, you need to come over here, man. We preaching and we eating good and we talking about Jesus. Who's Jesus, you're going to learn about him while we eat this two-piece dinner I think it was just one at a time. Was it two fishes and a loaf of bread? Come on.

Speaker 1 46:05

It was the sanctified combo fish. Now you better believe me, cajun seasoning.

Speaker 3 46:09

Come on. It had paprika. It had onion powder, garlic powder, salt and pepper, tony Shacharis and paprika.

Speaker 4 46:19

Oh my, I think too. You look at the Savior of the world, Jesus. He had 12. You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 5 46:27

And then he focused on the three, but there were three Peter James and John had such a unique perspective.

Speaker 4 46:31

So I think it is. I think discipleship is, because I think coming on Sundays and hearing whatever church you attend our church, with Pastor Mike, whoever's speaking, that's a piece of discipleship, that's a part of it. But I think that person that's on the platform speaking can't sit down with you and ask you personal questions. So I think that's a piece of discipleship, but discipleship is individual. I mean it's to where you're at in your journey.

Speaker 4 47:01

And everybody in a room on a Sunday is on a different journey, but you need to be discipled in the journey that you're on, that God has you on, and I just think that can't happen Pastor, mike or whoever can't sit down with you and ask you personal questions, and that's how you're going to grow in discipleship.

Speaker 3 47:16

Absolutely, it's personal.

Speaker 4 47:18

It's in your business.

Speaker 3 47:19

Yeah, it's in your faith. Yeah, I want to say this those of you tune in or go back and re-watch Pastor Bo's sermon on discipleship as a part of our you Ain't Even Got to Pray About it series. You ain't even got to pray. That is phonetically how you say it.

Speaker 5 47:40

Colloquially, though, we say you ain't even got to pray about it and he talked about it. That's Southern, right there, I have Southern.

Speaker 3 47:44

You ain't even got to pray about that baby. I'm going to say it four words in one syllable. So he taught on discipleship and did a great job, but he ended with these questions and they were hard questions. One of them was like hey, have you been honest with me? Have you sinned this week in any way in word, thought or deed? Guys, listen, you ain't asking or answering those questions in a small group I'm not, and I love my small group but one-on-one.

Speaker 1 48:08

There's trust vulnerability accountability, absolutely 100%.

Speaker 3 48:12

We can get deep in the weeds with these. That's why I say start with the one and go deep with them. And just Luke 15,. Jesus tells three stories to accentuate the importance of the one the lost coin, the lost sheep and the lost son. And he says, regarding all three, there is a response in heaven. And he says there's rejoicing, but one person. So can I encourage you all? Can you disciple one and listen, watch, great is your reward. Heaven will rejoice because that one person came to faith, because that one person is walking the following of Jesus, that's so good.

Speaker 1 48:49

And to your point with discipleship, it's not we said it's messy, yeah, but part of the accountability piece is being transparent and honest yes sir. And even us as leaders, like we have to have somebody that we're honest and transparent with yes sir. And like, hey, here's all my junk. Yeah, and how do I align this? What do I need to fix you? Know my junk yeah, and how do I align this? What do I need to fix? You know right, and if we're not doing that, we're not willing to be vulnerable I think that's the beginning.

Speaker 1 49:15

One of the things jesus did, he told. He told those that followed him said hey, leave all that. Yeah, follow me. Yes, sir. So they had to just die to themselves, they had to other careers and everything like like you know, pastor, pastor mike talked about peter that he was a successful fisherman.

Speaker 1 49:32

but he had to leave all that behind, and that includes our pride, our accomplishments our dreams, our desires, and we have to be willing to lay those down before somebody before God, obviously, but before somebody and just have these honest conversations and it's like, hey, just here I am open books be with me, you know. And I think we struggle with that the most Sure, and that's why the one-on-one helps us a lot. Yes, 100%.

Speaker 3 49:58

And, like you said, it's finding someone who's mature, but it is. I mean, there is a blessing. I mean one of the greatest books ever written by Richard Foster Richard Foster, celebration of Discipline and one of the disciplines is confession. And, guys, I'm telling you like a huge element, a vital element of discipleship being discipled is confession, just being honest with where you're at. There is something about confessing, sharing the truth about where you're at, and confession isn't always oh, I messed up it. This is where I saw God this week. Hey, man, I would be part of this. You're letting the light in. It's just a natural, normal rhythm about that. I could be vulnerable about this. I mean, pastor Elmer is a guy Again, it's funny because we work together, but he's also a very good friend of mine and we've talked through some things there with one another. And I'm saying this out loud because guys is normal, discipleship is normal. Pastor Elman, he's discipling.

Speaker 3 50:52

I have a really, really good friend of mine. He's older than he's, in his 60s and he disciples me and, like he asks me those hard questions. We call each other every single week. I typically try to call him on a Monday and it's me calling him because I'm being led by him. Can I be? Can I say that, like I said earlier, he said anyone that desires, if you will come after me, yeah, if you want to, if you want. So I'm being led. That means I'm. Can I just say that again, I'm being led, I'm putting forth the other, I'm not waiting for him to call me, I'm calling him, I'm the one, I'm the mentee, I'm the apprentice. He's leading me, but then he'll ask me the questions hey man, how was your week? With X, y and Z, I'm like ABC. And the whole point is, if I'm not honest with him, right, that he can't help me, give me the truth and revelation that I need to continue to get better, to continue to get stronger, to continue to lead well, it's like going to the doctor.

Speaker 3 51:48

It makes no sense to have a broke leg go to the doctor obviously limping, and say, hey, why are we here today? No, I'm good man. That makes no sense. And then they get mad at the doctor when he doesn't give you a good treatment plan, a good course of action to help fix what's going on. And discipleship is scary Vulnerability is scary, Absolutely 100%.

Speaker 3 52:08

Because there's a stigma with being vulnerable and absolutely. But I am telling you guys, that is the way, that is how you find freedom. James 5.16,. If we confess our faults, that doesn't just mean sins. Confess your weaknesses, your struggles, confess lies, that you've been entertaining temptations, and the response is and then we pray for the one that confesses. Then there's healing. Can I submit to you right now, those of you that are listening that are struggling if you're not walking in healing or discipleship, it's because you're not walking in confession.

Speaker 5 52:40

That's the way.

Speaker 2 52:41

That's where freedom is.

Speaker 5 52:43

That's where healing is, that's where encouragement is. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 52:46

And I think sometimes too we can get hindered in our discipleship journey because we hit a point that we're not willing to allow the light into Right. And so some of us in our discipleship journey we keep hitting a ceiling all the time, and a lot of times that ceiling would be broken through I mean obviously through the power and the work of the Holy Spirit in us Sure. But if we were just willing to get honest.

Power of Vulnerability in Discipleship

Speaker 4 53:07

Absolutely and bring it into the light Right, and that's why I love that. I've heard it said before. We confess to God for forgiveness, we confess to others for healing, and there is something powerful in that of just confessing. Talking about that just brings a healing.

Speaker 3 53:22

Yeah, let me just say this too. I think that's the struggle, right, is man? We put God on the hook for so much. We get angry at God for so much when he's given us the way, he's given us the plan. God, I'm struggling with this. Nobody knows about it. I'm angry, I keep going to you, I'm confessing to you. God always forgives. Let me be clear God always forgives, always forgives. But scripture is very clear about how healing happens, and I think it's because God wants to use his people as instruments of change to help with healing, just like with salvation. Right? Jesus ain't coming through knocking on people's doors saying I'm the Savior, come and follow me.

Speaker 1 53:58

He sent us to do it.

Speaker 3 53:59

Pastor Mike preached on that yesterday. Right, we sent him saying God, would you send salvation, god would you save the lost? And Jesus is like hold on. I did my part. I agonized on the cross for nine hours for you.

Speaker 5 54:11

I was giving you my spirit, go, mobilize yourself now Would you mobilize yourself and do that.

Speaker 3 54:14

I love that quote that he said mobilize church is the hope of the world and that's the same way with discipleship. I can't sit on my hands and be mute and then be angry at God when I continue to struggle and have these cycles of repentance and regret and relapse. And God's like man, if you would just open your mouth for a trusted brother and sister and let the light in.

Speaker 5 54:32

Well, I think pride is the biggest enemy to that. You know, oftentimes we think pride is something that is very boastful and people that are really haughty and just arrogant and all of that. But pride also says I'm not good enough, I have all of these things I have to cover up. I'll never measure up. We kind of get down on ourselves. But that is a result of also pride.

Speaker 3 54:56

Come on, that's good Pastor.

Speaker 5 54:57

Right, it's rooted in pride.

Speaker 3 54:59

Yes.

Speaker 5 54:59

And so to say like, oh, no one's going to, I can't be vulnerable with somebody, and I mean vulnerability is challenging for me personally, just it's tough. I mean and I'm sure many of you listening to, it's hard for you. But when we begin to kind of stay in that mindset of I can't be vulnerable, nobody's going to understand or I'm weak If I vocalize like, oh, I'm scared in this area or I feel like I don't have what it takes or I don't know. Whatever it may be, that's pride.

Speaker 3 55:27

Yes.

Speaker 5 55:28

And we are called to humble ourselves before the Lord. Absolutely and humility paves the way for us to really find healing to confess to confess to one another.

Speaker 3 55:39

Yeah.

Speaker 5 55:40

So that we can find healing and so we can find freedom, and God doesn't call us to live in pride. Right, I mean that's the opposite of humility, right, but I just yeah, a lot of that is it's us, it's focused on us.

Speaker 3 55:53

It's so good.

Speaker 5 55:54

Going back to. We just get so self.

Speaker 3 55:56

That's right. Self-absorbed yes.

Speaker 5 55:58

You know, and discipleship is super simple.

Speaker 2 56:01

It is yeah.

Speaker 5 56:02

It's not this big, it's not Drawn out thing.

Speaker 2 56:05

Come on.

Speaker 1 56:13

To-do, like system, program, simple. I keep hearing like Pastor Mike's voice in my mind when he's telling us like people like oh, I started reading the Bible in Genesis and it doesn't make sense, he always says start at the gospel.

Speaker 1 56:26

so, for everyone that's listening and you might desire discipleship, you might desire to be led and you might not have the relationships around you to be able to find that, you can always reach out to us and we'll connect you to some healthy churches in your area. We'd love to do that. However, we can serve you and those of you that are part of LifePoint as well, but just start reading the Gospels. Start reading the Gospel. If there's anyone that's going to disciple you, it's going to be the Holy Spirit.

Speaker 3 56:57

Come on.

Speaker 1 56:57

And so, as much as you can have, we desire relationship and a lot of these things. Like you said, Pastor Willie, all of us have said that a lot of the healing happens in the relationship and community. Maybe you just need to start reading the Gospels in the relationship and community.

Speaker 3 57:11

Maybe you?

Speaker 1 57:11

just need to start reading the gospel, maybe, and just kind of allow the word of God to be revealed to you and just the power of the Holy Spirit through the word and then I pray that that begins you on your discipleship journey. And even if you're in a healthy church and you're struggling to step into vulnerability and just that healing just go to the word.

Speaker 1 57:29

read the gospels and just see, it's hard to accept the love of God, it's hard to accept wanting to be corrected and decided and led when we're not willing to accept the love of God above all things. And so the love of God is revealed through His Word.

Speaker 2 57:46

You've got to preach.

Speaker 1 57:47

It gives us that desire like, hey, I want more. There's something else that I'm missing.

Speaker 3 57:54

We need to print that on a t-shirt and sell it for $4.99. You can't accept the correction of God $4.99. $4.99. You can't accept the correction of God if you haven't experienced the love of God. You got to experience it why? Because correction without relationship leads to rebellion.

Speaker 1 58:11

My God and it's religion, but we don't want relationship. That's right and for a lot of people that's how they view the church as a religion, because there is no relationship. It's just a set of laws and rules.

Speaker 4 58:23

I think if you were to define discipleship a different way. Discipleship is an invitation into relationship. It is I mean that discipleship, when it boils down to it, it's an invitation into relationship. It is. I mean that discipleship when it boils down to it, it's an invitation into relationship with each other and most importantly with God.

Speaker 2 58:38

I do love how you said that, Pastor.

Speaker 3 58:40

Elmer, the Holy Spirit, hey, let him disciple you. Jesus called him the comforter and the helper. Come on somebody.

Speaker 4 58:49

For sure, yeah, no-transcript.

Speaker 3 58:50

Y'all listen. I don't know about y'all. I feel like running around this building. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 58:54

I could sit and talk about this for hours we can. I got my running shoes on. We might need to do a part two. I got my iodized on. We might need to do a part two. We might need to.

Speaker 3 59:12

Some practical right. It's scary being vulnerable, so maybe when we do a part two, I've got these eight distinguishing characteristics of a trustworthy accountability partner or discipler.

Speaker 1 59:19

What are?

Speaker 3 59:20

those eight things you need to look for, Because you may say well, I don't know who to trust. What do I look for? I got some nuggets for that.

Speaker 4 59:27

That's really good.

Speaker 3 59:28

I love that We'll set it up In Jesus' name.

Speaker 1 59:30

We'll set it up.

Speaker 3 59:31

Praise the.

Speaker 1 59:32

Lord hey, Pastor Aaron, would you close it out in prayer?

Speaker 5 59:34

Yeah, father, god, we love you and we thank you so much, god, for the great commission, God, that you gave us, god, to go and make disciples, god, and so, lord, I pray for, encouraged through your Holy Spirit, god, and that you would remind them, god, that they have all that they need, God, to make disciples for you, god, pointing them back to you, god, because they have the Holy Spirit, god, and so encourage them today. God, we love you and we thank you so much. In Jesus' name, we pray Amen.

Speaker 1 1:00:02

Amen, Amen. Hey, once again, thank you for joining us today on this awesome podcast. Why Discipleship Come on.

Speaker 2 1:00:10

It's been awesome and.

Speaker 1 1:00:11

I want to say thank you to the smallies.

Speaker 3 1:00:13

Pastor Jordan Pastor.

Speaker 5 1:00:14

Aaron thank you so much.

Speaker 1 1:00:16

This was a very rich conversation.

Speaker 5 1:00:19

Sorry, I couldn't rap. Thank you, pastor.

Speaker 3 1:00:21

Willie, I felt you was kind of tuning up a little bit, I was getting ready, they call her Eazy E.

Speaker 2 1:00:27

Come on.

Speaker 5 1:00:28

E-small, E-small oh my God.

Speaker 3 1:00:31

It writes itself. Give us a couple bars right now E E Smalls. Maybe in part two, Maybe later. Maybe in part two.

Speaker 1 1:00:38

I'm going to lower your mics, hey guys. So if you guys want to connect with us, you can email us at info at LifePointChurch and we would LifePointChurchtv. However, we can serve you. We are here for you. You can also follow us on social media at lifepointchurch and you could also follow our creative social media at lifepointcreative. We love you. We're excited that we're kicking off season three together once again, and we'll see you next week.