Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
This podcast was intended to resource our Dream Teamers at LifePoint Church, with biblical fundamentals on worship, life and a variety of leadership principles.
Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
Creativity in the Church
What if creativity isn't just for the artists among us? Embark on this enlightening journey as we redefine what it means to be creative, drawing parallels with divine innovation, like the miracles of Jesus, and the profound role of love in driving authentic expression.
As we navigate the dynamic landscape of church creativity, we delve into the evolution of artistic expression, from the grandeur of stained glass to the immersive experience of LED walls. Conversations tackle the resistance new ideas face within traditional settings, especially from older generations, and highlight how bridging generational gaps can lead to a richer, more inclusive worship experience. Celebrating the harmony of traditional and modern expressions, we reflect on the joy of charismatic worship and the artistry that rivals Hollywood productions. This episode is an invitation to appreciate the beauty of creativity as it unites us in worship, fostering a connection to both our past and future.
Join us for a journey that celebrates self-discovery, diverse talents, and the sacred spaces our creativity can create, all in the name of glorifying God.
Hey, what's up everybody, and welcome to Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative. My name is Elmer Canas Jr and I'm excited that we get to hang out for the next few moments, and I'm here in the studio with my friend, willie C Simpson.
Speaker 2:Yo, it's your boy, willie C, on LPC Today. Oh man.
Speaker 1:Hey, and somebody that we haven't hung out with in a while.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, You're right, bro. Give it up y'all for the one and only Tiffany the Terrific, Come on.
Speaker 1:It is so good to see you again, sis, it's so good to be back.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we have a very special guest friend of our team and uh really, really excited that you're here with us today, bro, and uh introducing the one and the only you gotta drop some words.
Speaker 2:Come on, y'all give it up for the inventive, innovative, industrious and illustrious Scott Parker.
Speaker 4:Come on Come on.
Speaker 1:Mr Dictionary, I like it, you like it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so good Honored to be on.
Speaker 1:Hey man, we're excited and today we're going to talk about creativity in the church. And when we talk about creativity, you know some people think like arts and crafts or, you know, or graphic design. But creativity in the church goes so much further and I know we'll unpack some of that. You know. Let's just talk out the gate. What are some common creative areas?
Speaker 2:I guess that most people would associate creativity with Sure, yeah, I mean first and foremost, obviously, music. People are thinking through music. They're thinking through the arts, like, whether it's digital art or using, you know, acrylic or oils or anything like that, ms Tiff, what other ways people are thinking through the creative spaces?
Speaker 4:Media Right yeah.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Graphics. Graphics Maybe fashion and design Clothing. Oh, okay, I mean, people get creative with what they're wearing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the colorful, the abstract, the interesting, right yeah, creativity, creativity. What the interesting creativity.
Speaker 1:What is it? Well, God's ultimate creator.
Speaker 2:I mean, he's called the creator for a reason and I think we would agree that his creation it's diverse. It's beautiful. Yes, there's some unity there. But man, I mean it's awesome. You can go to different parts of the world. The desert looks different than a forest, or than a beach or a cave or a mountain or a valley. Animals look different. I mean a dog looks different than a bird or a centipede or a falcon.
Speaker 1:I don't know. This sounds like an episode of Bob Ross.
Speaker 4:Absolutely, by the way, bob Ross's Absolutely.
Speaker 3:By the way, Bob Ross has his own network on.
Speaker 1:Samsung TV. If you have a Samsung go to his channel. It is the best just like on TV that you can have.
Speaker 3:Just play it in the background and your kids are like what's happening? Well, and my oldest daughter is like, oh, not Bob again.
Speaker 2:Hello friends, today I'm going to be painting a beautiful landscape and we're just going to stick this tree right there. You know what, that tree? It's a little tilted to the side, but you know what? That's okay, friends, because he's a happy tree. He's a happy tree. There are no mistakes If you're tilted to the side, that's okay. You'd be happy as a tilted tree.
Speaker 3:Yeah, life can be hard Life. Just like this tree, you're going to stand tall, but I think in that, with creativity, how you're talking about all the different parts of the world and creation itself, that it's interesting that in a lot of ways.
Speaker 3:there's the ecosystem of creativity, where they all play into each other and talking about bees and all this crazy stuff, and I think, as we continue to talk through this, with what creativity is in relation to the church, that there's that thread of this like ecosystem, this it touches all spaces, you know, for all people, and not just the. You know the, the people that you know are creative.
Speaker 1:We'll just say it that way, or that people can see the creativity because you wear the bright colors.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:You know like sister Susie with the pink hair.
Speaker 2:You know, that's actually a really good point, scott. We tend to compartmentalize that, but you're right, there's a beauty, there's a harmony in the ecosystem I like that word the ecosystem of creative spaces. So, to your point, we need to expand our definition of what it means to be creative. We did an episode y'all on being a creative and landing the plane on. Hey, all of us, at our core, are creatives. We're made in the image of God. We bear his image. Well, we serve a creative God. Therefore, he's given us a mind and a will to be creative, and so it's easy to think oh well, I'm creative in this space here. Well, I did construction for almost 20 years.
Speaker 2:I'm creative in this space here, but I did construction for almost 20 years and we was creating stuff you better believe it I mean building a building that's been designed on paper. Yeah, you got to be pretty creative to figure out how to do that and make sure all these elements work together. So it's not only safe and structural, but it's beautiful and it's aesthetic as well. I appreciate that. Yeah, so good.
Speaker 1:Creativity has structure. A lot of times people think creativity is just like, you know, free spirits and just like, oh, just like splatter paint on a canvas, yeah, but I think, you know, even God has set order to everything and within those boundaries he continues to create. And I see, I see the most creative spaces that I've been in have had some type of structure. Outside of that, it's like what do I do, you know, and so, and I, and as we're leading other creatives in our church, it's when you do give them their boundaries they're able to be like all right, I know, I know how far I can go, what I can't do, because or else we kind of get lost in space.
Speaker 1:Society has changed a lot of what we depict to be creative, or what is right and wrong, and so now it's so confusing, like what can I say in church? What can I present? What do colors mean in church? Now, can you use the rainbow in church? There's all these things that society has distorted God's creation, and now we're so scared as a church, scared as the church. And just going back in history a little bit, the church used to be the cutting edge leaders in creativity through architecture and art and all those cool, amazing things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you think about during the Renaissance. I mean the church really leading the way, being avant-garde and introducing art as this really holy expression of this good and beautiful, diverse God. I mean you look at the Trinity. Yes, there's unity there, but there's diversity. God is one, but you have Father, son and Holy Spirit. Not only that, but God's people. There's unity, one heart, one mind, one spirit, but we're all diverse. I mean there's diversity right here in this room and there's beauty in that.
Speaker 2:To your point, there's a structured order which I think emanates from god, and without that you have chaos. I mean that now it's, it's, it's not, it's not a beautiful, it's not beautiful, it's a mess, it's disastrous, it's actually formless. I think even abstract art there's a form that you can kind of see. Oh, I understand what the artist is interpreting here. But when you, when you elevate man above god in terms of man, deciding what's good and what's beautiful and what's right and what's orderly, it inevitably leads to chaos, because you don't get order from disorder. I mean, we're born in sin, we're born in disorder, so you can't reap beauty and structure and form and this harmonious ecosystem from that. We have to allow God to be the distiller from that.
Speaker 3:That's right, if that makes sense Absolutely, and I was just talking to somebody today on our team that really I think I'm trying to identify what is like the foundational or the nucleus, the core of what creativity is, and I think it's at least the act of taking chaos and bringing it into order, and and I mean to also speak clearly that it's not hoping that it'll come into order, but make, like you know, Psalm 23,.
Speaker 3:He makes me lie down. He brings this chaos, this unrest, this unpeaceful moment and he makes me lie down on green pasture and so, in the same sense, with creative work. That's why I think it's so. You know, it is diverse, but it touches so many different places, but there is that structure that's required to pull that chaos into God's design and his order.
Speaker 1:We're going all the way back to Genesis 1. Yes, that's what it was in my head In the beginning. Everything was empty and formless, and then God spoke, spoke.
Speaker 2:So there's this void. It's formless, so it doesn't say it's nonexistent, it's formless, yeah. So there is chaos, there's disorder, there's disunity, and God speaks let there be, let there be light. So now, whatever is there, it coalesces now in line with God's word, literally, and out of that and again, we agree, there's beauty in that. But wow, thank God for the structure in the order. I think we got to get back to that.
Speaker 1:And so that's creativity as a whole and a lot of different people and different religions. I think could relate to what we're talking about right now. But if you look at religions around the world, they use creativity, some in similar ways and some completely opposite. There's some that won't use music or certain things that we even within the Christian denomination, there's disharmony in what's accepted and again, that's our own boundaries as humans. But what is a way that creativity actually enhances the Christian walk as disciples of Jesus? So, talking about things that matter and last time we spoke we talked about discipleship on the podcast and so how can I use creativity to help me grow? How can we use creativity to help us grow in church environments, in discipleship groups?
Speaker 1:in small groups.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in church environments and discipleship groups and small groups, yeah. So, first and foremost, I think it's understanding that when you approach a spiritual walk, not everybody's the same, and I think Jesus did a masterful job when it came to inviting people to come alongside him and to do life with him. I think about when he calls Peter, he calls James, he calls John, he calls Andrew. Then he meets this woman at the well and there's a woman caught in adultery, there's a Roman centurion, there's a Pharisee, there's Nicodemus all of these varied folks from many different backgrounds, many different walks of life, many different families of origin, and Jesus meets them where they are and creatively figures out.
Speaker 2:Pastor Ryan was just talking about this today during our all-team meeting, about how Jesus masterfully used these parables, all of these different parables that are told from different viewpoints, to communicate this same sort of foundational truth about the kingdom. And so I think that we have to be sensitive to the Holy Spirit, meeting people where they're at and asking the question okay, lord, how do you want me to connect this person to you and Scott, in your role, how do you use creativity to really express man, this good and beautiful God, to people who are in the dark about Him?
Speaker 3:It starts with a revelation of Him you know, and really understanding.
Speaker 3:And I think you know, when we're talking about discipleship and disciples, creativity and kind of the journey of that, it has to start there, you know, and so you know, definition, a working definition of disciple is a disciplined learner, and I think the image that the rabbis used is, you know, that these followers were following so close to the rabbi that the dust would kick off of their sandals on and they would hope that it would fall on them, that they were that close and switched on. I think that term even is one to acknowledge with creativity is being switched on. So what if creativity looked like in our walk in discipleship as being switched on, just saying I hear the Spirit of God, I'm reading the Word of God, I'm with the people of God. Where's my role? How can I contribute? Or, as a parent, what thing in my child and society? You know we're called to preserve our children in purity, yeah, and we're called to.
Speaker 3:So in that, okay, can we reduce creativity in relation to discipleship down to something as simple as problem solving? I mean, maybe that's an oversimplification, but I know a lot of what I do day to day is I'm just trying to fix problem after problem in various ways. Take missions for something, for instance, if you have a missions team that's going on a trip and they need people to sign up, well, what are some creative ways to let people know that there's a trip? What's the process that they need to be able to sign up vet interview applications, things like that and then what's the follow-up for the next trip? So are we capturing during that? What story are we telling?
Speaker 3:But that's just one really simple example. But I think some of the most creative people that I've ever met and been around that I'm inspired by are self-proclaimed. I'm not a creative. They always tell me you're the creative and I'm just like, are you kidding me? I'm like this picture of the follower following the rabbi, like, please just speak so I can learn from you because you are so creative. And so there's, I think, a misconception of what creativity looks like and how we engage creatively with God and life, and you know all the things that are attached to that work, and I think maybe it could be more simply said that it's just solving problems.
Speaker 1:Well, you think of Jesus, like think of Jesus. A lot of people call him a preacher, some will call him a miracle worker, some would call him a savior. He saved some people from some crazy things, and I'm thinking in context of the Bible. But every interaction he had where he brought a solution to something, it was all done in these creative ways, absolutely Putting mud in people's eyes.
Speaker 2:Right. And drawing lines in the ground to make a point, feeding 5,000 people. Come on with the Popeye's fried fish special.
Speaker 3:I'm waiting for that miracle to hit us again. Special Come on Sub-Am. I'm waiting for that miracle to hit us again. Come on, lord, listen, you did it before. Yeah, you did it for him.
Speaker 2:I know you can do it again. Listen, I'm nobody, but you showed all partiality. Come on, I beseech you therefore, lord, if you would just come and see about us here in Clarksville, tennessee, even if it's just the number one, Even if it's just the number one combo, I know you can take that. My Bible says there was leftovers. I felt your voice changing, doc, come on now.
Speaker 1:You better preach a word, but Jesus himself to solutions and creativity. When you have everything figured out, you start getting stagnant when it comes to the creative spaces figured out, you start getting stagnant when it comes to the creative spaces. And so, like it's in the most, it's in the times that you're most like when you're trying to figure things out, when you're in chaos and that you tend to be creative.
Speaker 1:Like, say, you only got one roll of toilet paper left in your house and you got four people in your house. Willie, like you get creative.
Speaker 4:Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1:Or you go to the store, or you go to the store, you get creative.
Speaker 3:You get industrious, you're going to get industrious.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something now. In desperate times, everything is toilet paper. My God.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to leave it at that. We're going to use it Washing machine. Let me tell you something. We got a closet full of clothes.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying that's what the washing machine is for that's creativity Come on somebody that sounds very creative, Something I would not think.
Speaker 1:Then it's punishment for whoever has to wash the clothes. I guess.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, well, no, but yes, I don't know down to God is love, and when you love God and you love people, he's going to show you creative ways to reach His people, because they're all everybody's different and he's created us all different. So, like, when we ask Him to really show us you know the people around us and how he sees them, like creativity naturally flows out of that because he wants you to reach his people for him and for his glory, and I think it just comes down to loving God and being open to what he has and wants to share and loving people and like really wanting to reach them. For him, that's so good.
Speaker 2:I love how you said that God is love and so like love is, it's almost like God's love fuels his creativity, like he's going to make sure. I mean you think about the craziest testimonies of people coming to Christ. I mean it feels like it's random, it feels like it's just completely well, it's unconventional and it's like man, there's no way that that that you know that's coincidental, like God worked all these things. I mean just you know, I've heard it said, I heard this said many years ago that there's only one way to God, the Father, and that's through Christ. But there are many ways to Christ. Many think about all of the different ways that folks have had an encounter with Jesus.
Speaker 4:Yeah, right To share his love. To share his love Because he gave them what they needed. Right, if I loved somebody, and every day I just bought them a flower, but they needed, you know something much different. Like I that's not doing anything for their need, like that's not loving them you know in a creative way it's. I need this flower, but you know I'm bleeding over here Like you know, like what are you doing If you really love me?
Speaker 4:like you can't do the same thing every day for the same person or for other people you know, because everybody has different needs and we need to be creative in how we're loving them and showing them that.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, that's really good. That's really great. I was surprised you said the word blood.
Speaker 4:I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am. She passes out.
Speaker 3:I said I'm bleeding here, oh no, I'm getting ready to go to New York.
Speaker 4:I'm bleeding here. I'm bleeding here.
Speaker 1:Hey, let's talk about this real quick. So, creativity in the church. I remember when I first my first full-time opportunity in ministry in Dallas and I was in my early 20s and you start bringing creativity which was relevant to my age group, whatever you want to call it. But then all of a sudden, the older people in the church were having issues with like oh, that's the devil, but then you just keep going back. You know every what 40 years 50 years, yeah.
Speaker 2:a full generation yeah.
Speaker 1:And every generation used a different type of creativity or creative perspectives in church and you know different from music to art, to from the stained glass to like screens and all that stuff. Like can we talk about that? Like how it's evolved in the church, and you know just from your experiences maybe growing up like. What has that? What does that look like and why? Why is it an issue?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it could be um in early I guess maybe in early stages like it feels like a threat because it's new yes you know.
Speaker 3:So what you don't know you're kind of uneasy about, and, uh, you know what's wrong with tradition nothing you know. Actually, tradition is helpful to keep us on track and not go off the rails. However, I think there's something especially in love that there's something maybe majestic about beauty and being able to acknowledge it and then articulate it, and that's where I think stained glass comes from. It's these theologians, these beautiful men of God throughout the centuries, that were captive from reading these stories. They were just captivated. And obviously there's the practical they wanted to teach the unlearned man that did not have access to or could not read, and so they couldn't read the scripture, so they were able to kind of watch a movie lack of a better term and that's your stained glass. That's where that comes from.
Speaker 3:So it's problem solving at a core. But I think it didn't have to be beautiful, but it was, and so I think there's something in that to say hey, this message, this gospel, is so beautiful. Therefore, everything coming out of it like expressive should match, or at least attempt to match the beauty.
Speaker 1:That was their pursuit of excellence. Yeah, absolutely Crafting that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're trying to reflect I love the majestic quality of this, really this God who's not fully explainable, but we're going to give you a glimpse of his glory through an artistic expression of stained glass my faith tradition. Growing up. I grew up missionary Baptist Kojic and so I made very charismatic expressions during worship and during the message, and I remember thinking again you know you have to be careful, like you said, how much you absorb and digest. But one thing that was evident to me was that the God that we worship is a God full of joy and that joy is expressed in his people. I mean we would have testimony service. I mean that's a part of the liturgy for some church or faith traditions, and the goal wasn't to put myself on display and say who can tell the better story. That may be an element of showmanship, but at its core I am expressively like David, just worshiping God. I'm inviting you all to do this with me. You're almost sort of, in a way, getting a glimpse of heaven.
Speaker 2:I just don't think we're going to be silent in heaven You're going to be in the full presence of the Lord, in your glorified body. Who can now handle? Who can handle the capacity I got, the capacity to handle the full expression of his glory? I'm going to be shouting my head off. Hey, now, and come on somebody. I feel like running around.
Speaker 3:I think I just heard a B3. A beautiful sound. I want to warn you, where's the minstrel at right now. I've got to praise him.
Speaker 2:Come on, somebody. If he woke you up this morning, started you on your way. Come on For somebody. He's a doctor in the operating room. He's a lawyer in the courtroom. He's a friend that's still closer than a brother. Come on, Come on, now I'm telling you, man Scott, I feel like shucking and bucking up in this thing now. Shucking and bucking.
Speaker 1:Oh man, Stained glass windows. What are other iterations of art in the church that we've seen over?
Speaker 2:centuries. What about? Well, I don't know. If I consider it art, I mean LED wall. Come on, I think LED wall is like the new stained glass window.
Speaker 4:I've seen some of the work that goes into those.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you, man, it is absolutely stunning to me just what technology allows us to do with that. Man, I think about some of the churches. I mean Highlands comes to mind. Listen, we're blessed what we got here, but I love going to other churches and just seeing how they utilize that technology and it is absolutely stunning what they're able to do with that. You know what I mean. It's rivaling what Hollywood would do.
Speaker 3:And it really I feel like in those environments because, although they're huge, a lot of the rooms you know that, you know I guess have the space to be able to facilitate all the production, but the representation of that is pretty small right. So it might be one light guy like an LD that's running, he's programming, you know every song and then you have your graphics. That's doing. You know all this different stuff. Maybe it's time-coded, you know, and synced up with the band and you have words that are animated and there's a lot of really cool elements going on. Maybe there's some live moments in production as well. But what I love about that is the heart of those teams are like the heart of an artist, where they're approaching the work. So we're in worship in the service as participants and receiving, but their worship was poured out days or weeks earlier in preparation for it, just like an artist.
Speaker 3:So the stained glass is hung it's done, but they poured it out during the creation. And so it was like in that creation is kind of when you're that, you know, breaking like an egg, just kind of letting it flow out and letting your gift flow, and then it's the execution or the viewing, you know, that's just you're kind of just hitting a button or moving on to the next slide, and I think that's what is so beautiful about those moments, I guess, in a sense, being outside of time and seeing worship kind of come together in this beautiful way around congregation and people worshiping.
Speaker 1:And in everything, whatever the iteration of art is, if it's digital art, if it's music, if it's stained glass, once you pour out that worship, like you said to the Lord, then you go and you're like, hey, hey, willie, let me point you to Jesus.
Speaker 3:And you lead the people to you're pointing them back to. Jesus through the art.
Speaker 2:And so that's happened over centuries, and it's beautiful how that happens.
Speaker 1:What is the impact of the creative expression in church? What does that impact look like? I think of the younger people in church. And then we talked I think we talked about this recently to Pastor Willie how in the church we've attempted to become relevant and we've used creativity as a tool to be relevant and sometimes we've missed the mark because we're we're using it for the incorrect reasons. Versus just preaching the gospel or pointing them back to Christ, we're using it as more of a bait mechanism.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah. I think in our desire to become seeker friendly or seeker sensitive, we compromise man. We forget the gospel is beautiful on its own too, like that's a beautiful message. The invitation is beautiful to this great God who says hey, all are welcome, come, come as you are, like, I'll work your life out, I'll change you, and so, I think, the creative elements. And, scott, I'd love to hear, obviously, your perspective on this but maybe there can be a sense of carnality to it. You know, we I love early, we're using the word majesty and sacred and holy.
Speaker 2:First of all, let me just say this man, I love how you talk through and I want to encourage dream teamers with what Scott just said. I mean, think of your work as worship, like what you do during that. I do want to make sure to be even more intentional about thanking those particular dream teamers, because it's really easy to come on a Sunday and critique that oh, they're all about lights and smoke and it's like wait, wait, wait, wait Time out During the week. This is a volunteer, now unpaid, and this is the service they're rendering unto God, like a craftsman, like a potter with clay. They're not doing this willy-nilly, they're really taking their time with that. So if you're a Dream Teamer, in that space we're running light, sound, video, videography. Man, thank you for what you do seriously and I want to encourage you think of what you're doing as worship. I heard a sermon years ago and the pastor said there's no JV Christianity. There ain't no junior Holy Spirit. Everything you're doing is holy because you're a holy person.
Speaker 2:We're a holy people doing this. You're doing switches and faders and knobs. God looks at that and says, okay, thank you, you're going to glorify me, I'm going to glorify myself through what you're doing, so I want to thank you for that. But how is it that we can? How do we keep from crossing the line into carnality and losing the glory of God in our creativity?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, like I said earlier, you have to start with a realization of who God is. If you don't start there, you'll not end up there. You'll end up at vanity. You'll end up at budgets going overrun because we got to keep up with the Joneses Like what this should not be the conversations happening in church. Budgets going overrun because we got to keep up with the.
Speaker 4:Joneses Like what?
Speaker 3:You know this is this should not be the conversations happening in church and there, you know, we should operate first at a budgetary level, as in excess, you know. So we shouldn't have to stretch ourselves to meet creative goals. The point of creativity is to make things work, not to make like. The point of creativity is to make things work and make things work well not to stretch yourself.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, if somebody's listening that is in another church and you feel that tension of we got to keep up but we can't afford it, well then I would challenge you to get a revelation of Jesus in your context, in your environment, your community, and a burden for that and create We'll stop. It doesn't need to look like LED walls in every church. Sometimes it needs to look different and that's okay. But how do we push against that? I use the word majesty because it is this picture in my head that was kind of burned in as I don't know 15 years ago, as I was kind of getting a hold of a lot of this at a more mature level and it was a preacher. He talked about you know what majesty is Like in the Bible. He's trying to define it and he said it's a picture of a four-year-old child standing in front of a Great Dane dog. It's this weird in-between of this dog could destroy me, it could completely bite me and hurt me and maybe it's fatal. But there is another side to that. As a three or four-year-old, five-year-old, whatever it is that's like. But can I touch it? Can I pet him? And I think if, as creatives if we lose that, this sense of I'm not just creating for a service, I'm not creating this big thing. You know, that's entertainment. Can we just say that out loud? Yeah, this is not what we're doing. Um, we're creating something that just doesn't have this weird selfish vanity.
Speaker 3:Look what I did. But it's this you're. You're pouring yourself out and you're acknowledging the majesty of God and it is a like. It's a. The Bible says it's a woeful thing. It'll be. You know, fall in the hands of a living God. That's right, yeah. And so in the hidden place, while you're working, when nobody else is, you know you're sitting there on Premiere Pro or you're doing whatever in your Adobe programs and you're making your stuff. I want to challenge it's the heart in which you approach. It is like that little four-year-old kid. That's like God. You are mighty kid. That's like God. You are mighty, you are holy. There is none like you.
Speaker 3:And you could take me out, you could leave our church, you could you know what I'm saying Like this is a big deal, not saying that we're going to be afraid that God's you know a derelict father, because he's not, he's a good father. But can I just touch you right now, lord, like? Can I engage with you and do that through this work? What does that look like? So I think it has to start there, because if relevancy comes at the cost of that, I don't want to be relevant.
Speaker 1:And you see that a lot and and I hate to pinpoint the music industry it's what I'm probably closer to as far as you know, knowledge of and I I hate to see people that I know that they they're gifted, they're gifted creatives, artists and then, but they, out out of pursuit of their love for god, they've used what god's given them you said the word vanity earlier and they want to touch god. But then, as they're doing it, god takes care of us and he loves us. He's a good father, like you said, and he brings people into our lives and we grow in relationship with people and we grow in our gifts and our crafts. And then all of a sudden it becomes like, oh, look at me, and it's so easy. Like, oh, look at me, like we touched the Great Dane, but then all of a sudden we're leading it into a kennel and we put God in a box and we feel like, oh, I had control over it from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:Where's that organ at? Come on.
Speaker 1:Come on, I just think of Lucifer, you know like God, created him, the most beautiful angel and all. And then, all of a sudden, it went from like oh, thank you God, to like oh, thank you God. Oh, look at me.
Speaker 2:God, he says I will ascend. I'm going to ascend and I'm going to usurp your throne. The one who created me? No, no, I actually know more than the creator man. That is good.
Speaker 1:And so that's a, really it's a. We have to be in awe, and we've talked about this earlier this year with our staff that you know we've we've lost the awe of God. It's almost like we've become numb to his, his works and his presence.
Speaker 1:And we had our pastor, mike Campbell, who just came back from Tanzania and he shared a miracle of of a baby that was born paralyzed on the entire right side, and the mom came forward and he prayed for, for her and then he laid hands on the baby, and baby just starts moving his arms and kicking his legs, and now he's crawling around and you know and those things don't excite us no more as christian believers, whatever you know, because we're like okay, whatever is we're so numb to it.
Speaker 1:We either don't care about it or we were turned off by it. You know, know, for whatever reasons, man, I just think myself I'm 42, been in church most of my life, and there's times I have to check my heart Like why am I doing what I'm?
Speaker 2:doing. Yeah, absolutely Well to your point it's, and I think I love that idea about the revelation. I think when you have the revelation man, we don't treat God's presence as common. It's funny because the word profane we tend to look at profane as something like ugly or distasteful, but in the Greek that word literally means common.
Speaker 2:So when you profane God's presence, you're treating it as common, as ordinary, as rote, as something that's like everything else. But my Bible tells me, Tiff, that he says I am the Lord, thy God, and beside me there is no other.
Speaker 4:You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean you got to speak to that Like yeah, god, he's. No, he's other than in who he is. Yeah, yeah 100%.
Speaker 4:And I think in our creativity, creativity is vulnerable. In our creativity, creativity is vulnerable and it is just open and bare. And when we do it for the Lord and to glorify Him, he gets that pressure. Honestly, I don't want it. The opposite of the accolades is that pressure to perform and that pressure to do things that in our power we cannot do. That he gives us the strength and the power to do so.
Speaker 4:When we're doing things for God and we are just so in awe and so in love with Him that we are willing to do anything because he's worthy of anything, you know, like, like what in our lives is better than God is, is greater than God is, is more than God.
Speaker 4:So when we're willing to do anything for him, in that worship, like that, that pressure is off of us and and he so willingly takes it. I mean it's not on us, it's not in our power, it's not in our strength. And just giving Him that worship and knowing that he's worthy of that and just it is a constant thing that we have to remind ourselves of. Like, hey, this isn't on me, this isn't in my power, this is for your glory, god, and you're going to have your way here, like here I am, you know, and whether he uses me or I get to encourage the person next to me that they've got this and like God's got them, like however that looks, and they get to be up there and get to glorify Him more in public and it was more in private on my part like he's going to use us in creative ways to get the glory. And you know, he's just I don't know. It's just remaining in that awe and wonder yeah, it's him, it's all him, it's good, all him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this past weekend we got to hang out with our friends down in Antioch at Victory. Church and hung out with their worship and production team.
Speaker 2:At Victory Church At Victory.
Speaker 1:Church, and so shout out to Pastor Troy and Darla Love you guys.
Speaker 2:Love you, guys, love you guys.
Speaker 1:And one of the things we mentioned as we're talking with the team was that creativity is a vehicle. It's a vehicle to lead people to God's awesomeness, to who he is. So if you have a gift of singing, of creating content, whatever it is, it's all an opportunity to point people back to Christ. And again, it's a very precious gift and God gives us gifts and abilities without repentance, so he's not going to take it away from you, Right?
Speaker 2:Well, there was some tip you said I was looking it up feverishly.
Speaker 4:Feverishly 1.
Speaker 2:Corinthians 2. I love when you said you said the word pressure, yeah. And I love how you said you said God can handle that pressure. Again, kind of thinking through that great question about not compromising the beauty and the majesty and really the simplicity of God for the sake of drawing people to him.
Speaker 2:The Apostle Paul says in 1 Corinthians 2, 1,. He says when I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence listen to this or superior wisdom, as I proclaim to you the testimony about God. Listen to what he says. I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear there's the awe and with much trembling Verse 4,. My message and my preacher were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power. So that here's the end result. So here's the end result of creativity, he says, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom but on God's power. And at the end of the day, I think that is the greatest outcome that could ever come to pass from us, using the creative gifts that God's given us. Right Is that people would come to have faith in God because they see a demonstration of his power.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Not our eloquence, not our inventiveness, none of that, even I would say our creativity. At the end of the day, they say man, what a great God If we put on an amazing worship experience. And the only thing they talk about man Elmer he modulated six times man, he was in his vibrato, his falsetto, it was amazing. Or they only talk about man, the beauty of the LED or the beauty of man, the auditorium, it's nice, it's like being in an NFL stadium. If that's the last impression to come with man, we have failed horribly. I want them to come away and say what a great God, man, I got to know more about the Jesus they was talking about. I got to know more about him.
Speaker 4:And we keep coming back to that private time, that preparation, If we get on a stage and we're singing about a God that we don't know and we haven't spent that private time with, and it's not authentic because we can say oh yeah, God is good.
Speaker 3:He's all right.
Speaker 4:It's just not like if you spend time with him, you can't wait to celebrate him. You can't wait to praise him. Like you can't wait to praise him, like you cannot wait to just party. You know, like God is so good, like look at, read your Bible. Like what did he do? Like oh my gosh. You know, like, and share him.
Speaker 4:Like when you spend that time with him, it comes out authentically and it comes out creatively, and that's what people are looking for. They're not looking for a show or entertainment or they'd spend money on tickets and go somewhere else and hear amazing music. I mean, look at where we're at, close to Nashville, you can hear music, you can see amazing art and it's at your fingertips. People aren't looking for that. They're looking for the Lord. Whether they know it or not, that's right.
Speaker 4:And when you're authentic up there and you're celebrating that they're going to want what you have because it's just pouring out of you and that comes from that preparation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3:I have some of these thoughts, thoughts around. So the relevancy topic In Exodus 35, it's the chapter talking about the construction of the tabernacle and this was not the tent.
Speaker 1:This was not the portable.
Speaker 3:This was the tiny town campus. This was the one that's going to stay for a minute and um, and so it was beautiful.
Speaker 3:You know, we learned about its construction having a golden nails that were part of the framework, that would be covered up and not seen, and so that speaks to integrity, you know, and things like that. But when it talks about, uh, moses giving the call to Israel about constructing this, he, you know, um Exodus 35, 10, you10,. He said let every skilled craftsman come and do this. And when you look at those two Hebrew words, the first one is hekam and the second one is levav, and the hekam, which is skilled, means skilled or wise, and then levav, which would be craftsman, is actually hearts and soul. And so the way you could actually read it was when Moses was calling to Israel to build this, it's let every wise heart, let every skilled soul come and do this. And then so you read about Bezalel this man, the son of Uri, this artist.
Speaker 3:That was incredible. Later down that chapter and I think verse 30, it talks about him and that he was filled with the spirit of God and so um and then so, as we approach work like, if we don't do that, so this is the same uh lay up. This was the same word that uh is used in Proverbs when it's talking about wisdom. It's like don't be dumb, don't be a fool, don't be you know, be wise, be, be humble, be meek, be like Jesus. If we're not those things, then what we end up is starting to say I think we should be relevant, I think we should be, seeker.
Speaker 3:I think we should be these different things that actually, ultimately aren't the point. What is the point? So I wrote this thing one day the place of the creative within the church is the place of wisdom and heart that builds a place where God's presence is welcomed. And I think if we miss that point then we've missed the point, and so, anyway that's. I feel like the creative in the church needs to find that spot and never leave it. It's a sacred, beautiful place, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so good. I'm still taking that in, man, I'm about to digest that one.
Speaker 2:I'm about to listen. I got to let my cerebellum rotate around. So good, that's a good one, man, I love that Skilled you said skilled soul, wise heart. Yeah, man, that's legit there. Wow, that's a t-shirt. Yeah, we got to put that on a t-shirt and sell it for $49.99. I'm telling you, brother, half the proceeds are going to go to the Forward campaign.
Speaker 1:Feed the children.
Speaker 2:Feed the children Simpson household. That's right Serve project.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's so cool. Let's talk about this real quick. In the spaces that you guys have gotten to serve. We've been talking about just general topics. Let's talk about more of where you get to serve and your experience in creative space. Again, all of it evolves, you know. I know, just looking back to my journey, just seeing all the things I've been able to do, I remember stepping into certain creative spaces, not realizing the purpose of God. Why am I learning, at the time, html? Why am I learning website stuff? I had no idea and several years later I'm working with creatives that build websites and create graphics and I was able to speak the same language and connect with them at a different level. The reality of the creative space in churches internally, when it comes to work, is that there's a lot of times that creatives feel misunderstood.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of times that creatives feel misunderstood because there is a whole other set of tools and there is a language and a lingo that does exist in those spaces when it comes to media and music and production and all that stuff. And then so then there's this big disconnect from all the administration and the staff and creatives, and so I had to learn to navigate that in that season of my life. And now I go back I'm like, why did I complain so much? God used all of that to sharpen me and to prepare me for what's ahead of me, and so I'm very grateful for all of those things. And now I'm able to see creativities in every space. When I meet with our KidPoint team, they're creating some of the most amazing content and packages for kids and families, and creativity is not just limited to creative teams per se.
Speaker 1:I think of guest experience and Jeremy and how they greet and meet people when they walk into the church and one of the things that we do in the auditorium when people are coming in, like there's so much happening within the church and so my perspective of creativity within the church has expanded because I've just learned to say like all right, I'm going to learn and try to identify the creativity of God in all these other spaces that I think at a certain point in my life, like I thought, oh, that's not creative. Yeah, absolutely, that was me.
Speaker 2:No, that's not creative. Yeah, absolutely. Yes, that was me. No, that's great. Yeah, so you know, I alluded earlier to having spent time in the construction industry. That's what I went to school for. Um. I got a couple of degrees um, one in construction science and then one in environmental, health and safety. So a lot of my career was project leading, project management. I served as a superintendent on several large projects and a lot of that was organizational communication, but it was training and building systems as well.
Speaker 2:Like you know, you're getting new folks in. You got to go through orientation, then you got to go through training and then we have to track that and measure the training and see how they matriculate. Then, if there's issues where there's noncompliant behavior or actions, well how do we address that. And issues whether it's non-compliant behavior or actions, well how do we address that. And man, you know, when I came on staff here what four years ago I thought man, none of this is going to translate, like none of this is going to translate to ministry. And I remember having my first care appointment and I start putting on that trainer hat, like okay, you're coming to me with a deficiency, there's an issue Like this is where you want to get to.
Speaker 2:This is where you are. And then the bridge is the training, like that's what I was taught in school. Everybody has a goal. This is where I want to get to, this is where they are. And the training, the system. That's the bridge. I'm like, oh, okay. So there is the vision. The mission is everybody wanting to follow Jesus, be fully devoted followers. The vision that you're systematically bringing them in place. In all the scriptures you see Jesus systematically, the church, the first century church, systematically bringing people in.
Speaker 2:And so I began to have this sort of excitement, like, okay, I can take these skills here. Like one of the skills I have is like content creation. I know how to write a program. I was like, hey, willie, can you write a curriculum? Yeah, I got to write a curriculum. You kidding me? I look at a curriculum like a training program.
Speaker 2:There are steps, there are tenets, there are guideposts that help people matriculate through and grow in maturity, grow in competency, grow in confidence. And so one of the areas I oversee is our LifePoint Leadership Academy, and anybody that knows me knows I'm a nerd. I love to nerd out and talk about things like that, but it's been cool talking with Pastor Elmer and Renee Butler she's our coordinator for that. She's amazing because she's a teacher herself, she's an educator, she's a doctor and to see how those gifts that God has given me here working outside of the church fit like hand in the glove here to help matriculate people through creatively. You know we're talking through some assessments that we're going to start doing. And I mean listen. Anytime I meet with anybody, you know it's a good meeting when I'm jumping up.
Speaker 3:Hey man, I'm hugging them, I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Because it's good for the people. But I just never thought that those skills I mean. I went to school for eight years to get two degrees so that I could learn how God has gifted me in the church to use that experience here in the church, you know what I mean. With our small group leaders, we found some fun, creative ways to train our small group leaders. We found fun, creative ways for people to lead groups and for people to get involved and to join groups as well. So that's. What's been exciting is to see again there's no JV Christianity. There ain't no junior Holy Spirit. That's right. When God saved me, he made me holy. Therefore, the work that I'm doing is going to be holy. It glorifies him. So, yeah, I'm thankful. I'm thankful that none of that was wasted in my eyes. No, no, that was a training ground. You know that none of that was wasted in my eyes. No, no, that was a training ground.
Speaker 1:It was a training ground for me to be here, so I praise God for that. How about you?
Speaker 4:Tiff, how has God trained me to do what I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I feel like when we're thinking creative and you think my role here is I am the worship and events coordinator. So when you think worship and events, you think, oh, those are my two most creative things that I must do right, Worship and events.
Speaker 4:Pretty creative, but I would say the way God has used me and my heart and my life on this team is seeing the team come together in unity to worship God, and how we get there, and through rehearsals and through conversations in the green room, and just I think that's where I've had to use most of my creativity on this team is worship is vulnerable, and when you have a whole bunch of people on a stage pouring out their hearts to the Lord, the enemy wants to divide that and he wants to come in and make sure that there is division on that team. I mean that is the goal and I am going to mama bear this team like you've never seen anybody mama bear before and I just have such a heart, for when we are one body worshiping God, there is nothing that is going to get in the way of that. So I don't know what specific. I mean I went to school math, English, like all the things always just kind of minored in music and just did a little bit of that and then I just, you know, was a mom for a long, long season. So I guess maybe that's where that mama bear heart comes in.
Speaker 4:But you know, I think I've just used the most creativity in our small groups and how, how rehearsals are set up and how, how can we change it, and just always being open to like, hey, what can we? You know, this is the season this team is in, where do we need to pivot? Like, what do we need to do? And that takes a lot of creativity. You can't do things the same way every Thursday, even Some Thursdays we come in. I know even Pastor Elmer last Thursday he's like, hey, can I hijack small groups? And it was for the best way. I think always being open to what God is doing in me and in the team takes creativity and just being obedient in that.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll tell you what being a mom, that's a superpower.
Speaker 4:And that takes creativity.
Speaker 2:I mean every kid is going to be different.
Speaker 4:You think you got it down and you have another one and you're like what am? I doing here even.
Speaker 3:You talk about every Thursday looking different, I'm sure, every single day.
Speaker 4:Every single day. So I've got you know four kids. Some are adults, some are elementary school, you know. Got you know four kids. Some are adults, some are elementary school, you know. So we're just always figuring out the things you know. You're. You're building the plane while it's flying.
Speaker 2:That's it right there. That's the perfect analogy. Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 1:And you've done a great job. Just when people come in, just like children, like our team we're we're made up of just so different people, different personalities very diverse team that we have here at LifePoint. Yes, and God's giving you the grace to be able to lead and connect with everyone that comes in and lead them to their next step on the team.
Speaker 2:So you do a great job. Great job, Thank you. Listen. The title fits Come on, we did all 10. They're terrific, man. Oh gosh, Come on somebody.
Speaker 4:If anybody has another title, please, please, no no, that's opening it up again. No, please, no, no, no, no, no, no. I take it back, I take it back.
Speaker 1:I take it back Email Elmer at LifePointChurchtv.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Please, please, send them in this week.
Speaker 4:You know, sometimes something comes out of your mouth and you immediately regret it. I'm telling you, and that was one of that will stay on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's going to be on the podcast, so you heard it from Pastor Elmer Listen. Email elmer at lifepointchurchtv for other honorifics that we can have from Miss Tiffany over here AKA.
Speaker 1:AKA.
Speaker 4:Tiffany.
Speaker 1:Terrific. We should put little sound bites. We should. Yes, how about you, scott? Yeah, what's that look like for?
Speaker 3:you. Well, first, I love the local church because it is, I think, such a good ramp onboarding to so many different things that maybe you wouldn't otherwise think that you could be passionate about. And so that's you know, for me where a lot started, um, and I've never really considered myself especially a creative, but I've never really considered myself also creative just in general. Um, I just feel like I ha, like I know what I like and I know what I don't like, and then when I express that, people say, oh, you're so creative.
Speaker 3:And I'm like well interesting, and even today I know that obviously I'm doing creative things that would be classified culturally even as creative, but a lot of it started just in the church, when I talk about problem solving. It was things like okay, there's a buzz in the sound system, how do we not get a buzz in the sound system? Does anyone else hear that buzz?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:I do. It's bothering me, and so I would stay late from church and figure out what like RF signal was causing that buzz or what nine volt battery and acoustic guitar? Or grounding issue on a DI or whatever it was.
Speaker 3:Right, I tried to figure it out. And then one thing led to the other, to the other, to the other, and then you're, you're, uh, you just fast forward a decade and a half and you're just like here we, here, we are, you know, like here we are, you know. And so I think it's, at least for me, creativity has just been a journey in many ways.
Speaker 3:And I know this sounds kind of weird, but it's like self-discovery or at least, maybe even self-awareness. And yeah, there's some guys that I've heard say, you know, trying to articulate creativity, but it's, it's almost this sense of I know, my taste and um, being able to articulate. That is really important and so, um, I feel like I'm learning that each day and started, you know, 15, 16, 17 years ago somewhere in there and um, but it all being kind of anchored around my encounter with God when I was a teenager and walking away from that encounter. Everybody needs this.
Speaker 3:Like there's just very strong conviction. You don't understand Everybody, 90-year-old, so-and-so you need this. You're four and a half years old. You can have this too. It doesn't matter, and so it's kind of been alongside this self-discovery, whatever you know, you want to call it uh and and bringing people to that and you know. So that's kind of my context, uh, so it ends up looking like video, ends up looking like photos and graphics and people and things. But I think it'll always change in 20 years from now. I'm sure it'll be, uh, very different.
Speaker 3:you know, hopefully not too different, cause I love a camera, but um you know, uh, but I think embracing that is where I learned it was in the church.
Speaker 1:There'll be new things. We have to come up with new solutions and things like that.
Speaker 3:They're already iterating chat GPT I don't know if you've heard and they're basically allowing it to go deeper and it says it takes longer to think. So it can give you a more accurate answer, um and, but in that your prompts must also be very curated. But they're trying to work with you on even your own language, like how you as an individual speak, and trying to. So when I say vibe, I don't mean like an Eastern, you know kind of religion space where they talk about vibes. We're talking about like vibes and ambience.
Speaker 2:You know things, you know so it's, it's learning.
Speaker 3:So you talk about learning tools and stuff.
Speaker 2:What's hilarious is that, as you're explaining that I'm looking at tip over, she's shaking her head like Lord, lord, here we go. This is the start of it.
Speaker 4:I was.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's Listen.
Speaker 4:You never know around here.
Speaker 2:What's gonna happen? Listen Is Willie Simpson alone, oh my god, in his fearfulness Of how advanced this AI is gonna get.
Speaker 4:I'm just saying, yes, you're not alone, I'm not alone.
Speaker 2:No, it's. I'm telling y'all. I mean Scott, like does it not? Yeah, concern you a little bit there how advanced AI has gotten? I mean, it's so lifelike it's literally like talking to another flesh and blood, human being yeah it, it's interesting.
Speaker 3:However, I think again it's I'm the human, you're the computer, right, so I dictate you respond.
Speaker 3:And, most exciting point, which I don't think, ai is quite there. There's a lot of beta companies out right now with this, but it's essentially where they are an employee and an assistant, a digital assistant for you, and it is. It's where and that's why I chat GPT. They're making it out in public, but it's where they're working on your preferences, your workflow, your processes and similar to all my creatives out there will know a stream deck where you press a button and you program that to do lots of different steps so that it can make your you know the actions that you're taking less. So if you want to open up 20 programs and have them all situated a certain way on your screen, you can just press a button to do that on a stream deck. Same way with AI, but way deeper. Um, when you're talking about uh, workflows and planning center, responding, different things like that, how do you do, how do you talk? And not that it's answering for you, but it's a creative partner to come alongside you. Anyway, I'm excited for that.
Speaker 4:I'm out of a job? Yeah, no, hey, chat, gpt, can you roster everyone for next week?
Speaker 1:All right, okay Well this is the last time you guys see me, I think. Oh man Going back. And I want to close with this topic of conversation to first, you must have a revelation of Jesus. Yeah, so I got saved when I was eight years old. I'm 42.
Speaker 3:But in 2011, I went to a conference, to Catalyst in Atlanta, and I was probably there with you, it probably.
Speaker 1:So it was it was it was jumping.
Speaker 1:That was like the thing at the time, like there was no other platforms like Catalyst, and so we were there learning with a team from from Texas and at this point of life I was a creative pastor at a church in Texas and read all the books, met with all the people. I love networking and connecting with people and I've been to all the conferences and I was at the top of my conference game right and Pastor Judah Smith. He's preaching and he's just having fun and saying things and as he's talking in his sermon he stopped and he says it was a lot of you. Just you read all the books, you've gone to all the conferences and he said a few other things, but then he goes. But since when is Jesus not enough?
Speaker 1:And I remember that hit me like a train.
Speaker 3:Since.
Speaker 1:When is Jesus not enough and I started weeping in my seats. There's 16,000 people in this auditorium. This is not like a Pentecostal revival service. People are there just listening and almost like TED Talks. And I got out of my seat and I walked all the way down to the little stage area and I remember I just threw myself on the ground and Pastor Jude. I just heard him say I guess we're making an altar call. And I remember just that moment, because it did take a revelation of Jesus. And even though I had a revelation of Christ already, even though I was working for him, for the church you know air quotes like I had lost sight of him, and that moment right there, since when is Jesus not enough? It brought me back, it realigned, it refocused my eyes on Christ and like ever since, like it's like when people are like you want to go to this conference.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, sure Maybe like it doesn't exist.
Speaker 3:Since when is Jesus not enough? Yeah?
Speaker 1:It just like, it just resonates, it just resonates, and so, man, it's really changed how I interact with individuals and what I pursue personally as an individual. Am I pursuing things that I want for personal accolades, or am I pursuing something because I want other people to feel like, oh, look at, elmer, be impressed.
Speaker 1:I kind of lost all of that, like my, the flavor, you know, in my mouth for those things I just went away and God just took it away and, um, I was set free from, you know, trying to prove myself to people and to a point that, like I'll, we'll do things in church, like I've still been doing it since then, like 13 years later, and people, people will be like oh, that was awesome, oh, praise God, you know, and 13 years back I might have reacted more like oh, thank you.
Speaker 3:It was good, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:And so since when is Jesus not enough? You know that revelation of Christ and just as a creative, as an, I think, everyone we need to have that revelation.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's powerful.
Speaker 2:Come on, I decided to know. He said I wanted to know nothing but Christ and Christ crucified. He said it wasn't eloquence, it wasn't clever words, it wasn't even my wisdom. And I just met it To your point. I mean, man, since when is Jesus not enough? I mean, yeah, it's not about programs, it really isn't. It's not about inventiveness or ingenuity. I think those are gifts that God gives us absolutely. But I love what you said.
Speaker 2:Do we have this revelation of this amazing, awesome, at times terrifying God? I mean, the Bible says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hand of the living God. I'm thinking about that book All of God by John Bevere. I'm rereading that right now and I just love the fact.
Speaker 2:I mean, we have this great, mighty, incredible God who invites us to come close to him, but we never lose that sense of his majesty and his strength and his power. I mean it's power under his control and it's power that is tempered by his goodness, but he's still a mighty God nonetheless and we don't ever want to forget that, even when we're creating like God I'm creating this for you I dare not step outside the bounds of your Holy Spirit, of your leading, outside of Scripture. I dare not step outside of those bounds Because, at the end of the day, we're going to give an account. We're going to give an account. End of the day, we're going to give an account, we're going to give an account, and I want you to say well done, good and faithful servant, not productive or creative servant or successful servant?
Speaker 2:Well done, my good and faithful servant.
Speaker 4:And you never know what that's going to look like.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 4:I mean not to top your conference story here, but I was at a conference and I just remember he gave me a word for somebody and it was just such an amazing moment like to go up to that person. Like you know, it took me a minute, like you know, cause I was still a little bit kind of like wait, I got to do what. And then I saw her again and I was like, okay, now I got to, you know, and it was like that feeling of like, oh my gosh, like I just did this for God. Who else do you want me to talk?
Speaker 4:to like looking in the crowd like who else you got for me? Like what else do you have for me? Like I just want to do all the things and I just remember like just a moment of him just being like wait, like you need to listen to this too. Like you are 100% here for a reason too, and I'm also speaking to you Like stop thinking like I'm giving you things for everybody else, like, oh, that person needs that word right.
Speaker 4:Oh that must be for that person over there, like this is for you. So sometimes we have that pressure to be creative and it feels good and it's like you know we're going to do all these things for God and it feels great to, like, you know, share about him and, yes, like, do it, but like also just be still and listen. And we don't always have that pressure to create, like, but we always do need to be listening and we always do need to be, you know, ready for that, and that looks different in different seasons. Sometimes you do need to hear things and it's not for the person next to you, it's definitely for you and you know, I just I think, just being open to that and what that's going to look like and just different seasons is, is 100%.
Speaker 1:If you think of a pianist like a master artist, is considered a master artist. They even put time to it now when you spent over 10,000 hours on your craft, but no one sees those 10,000 hours. They might just hear like three, four minutes of it, and that's back to your private life. There's people that write songs, like all these artists. They write thousands of songs and we only know three, four, five songs, you know. And so there's a lot that God does in us in private and people will only see the overflow of that.
Speaker 4:And so yeah that's powerful. And it feels good, but like, that's not always how that goes. Very true.
Speaker 1:Man Scott, so good. Thanks for stirring us up, bro. I'm telling you, dude, I um we hope we have you come out next time and have more of this conversation.
Speaker 2:I love that I can, I can say confidently you are definitely the my favorite guest named Scott that we've ever had on this show.
Speaker 3:That's a fact. I'm honored.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, I can say that with 100% conviction, absolutely Everybody whose name has had the word Scott in it. You're my favorite man.
Speaker 3:Beautiful, thank you.
Speaker 1:You're not related to Peter Parker, are you? I am, he's my cousin, he's your cousin.
Speaker 2:The weather is a hassle to me.
Speaker 1:How'd you know? Oh man. Hey guys, thank you so much for hanging out with us on this episode. If you want anything, prayer, any more information on what we get to do here, you can email us at info at lifepointchurchtv. Once again, we got Willie, tiffany and our friend Scott with us and we'll see you, guys, next week. Peace, see you. Bye, bye, bye, bye.
