Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
This podcast was intended to resource our Dream Teamers at LifePoint Church, with biblical fundamentals on worship, life and a variety of leadership principles.
Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
SUNDAY REWIND: The Holy Spirit-Empowered Life
Join us as Pastor Mike Burnette returns for our Sunday Rewind segment, where tradition meets spontaneity in a delightful, spirited exchange. Listen in for a fun Thanksgiving-themed icebreaker, where we swap stories about turkey aversions and pecan pie passions, wrapping up with a heated yet humorous debate about cranberry sauce preferences. Discover why living a Spirit-filled life is more than a one-time event; it's a continuous, transformative experience that aligns our desires with God's intentions, replacing a heart of stone with one of flesh.
What's up everybody. We are so glad you are back, that's right, and we are back with Pastor Mike Burnett, yay, during the Sunday Remind.
Speaker 2:She's getting better at this every time.
Speaker 1:No, I am not. I feel like I'm getting worse, but it's great, you know what. We're going to keep it.
Speaker 2:All right Ready.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're going to keep that one you want to do it together. We're going to do it.
Speaker 2:Do you ever watch Cat and Garth? It's the SNL skit with Fred Armisen and Kristen Wiig.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Where they totally improvise but they copy each other the whole time. No, no, oh, they do that. Basically, we can do that.
Speaker 1:We can totally do that. We'll do it up on stage one day. Welcome to Sunday Rewind yeah there you go.
Speaker 2:All right, go ahead for real you got it Okay, all right, legit.
Speaker 1:Welcome back guys. We are so excited You're back with Pastor.
Speaker 2:Mike Burnett. Hey, it's good to be back. I know I was down a week. Well, I was here.
Speaker 1:You were here.
Speaker 2:I didn't get to be a part of it because Pastor Elmer crushed it last week. Last week he did. He did an amazing, an amazing job. I've loved getting to process these messages through the podcast expression too, like this part of the discussion piece, because it allows us to take the message a little further and explore it a little. Preaching is one direction, so you prepare a message which, honestly, this is totally unrelated to today, but you prepare a message for an incredibly diverse crowd. I mean, people have every type of background history, perspective, persuasion, theological, economic, racial, denominational and you got to prep a message to speak to this big old crowd and nobody stops with questions and clarifications. They just take it and then they leave. So I love that we have this podcast opportunity for reflection and further questions and what was that? And unpack that or whatever. So I think it's really cool. I'm glad you're doing it and thank you. You're doing a great job by the way.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's fun. Well, thank you.
Speaker 2:Including your intros.
Speaker 1:They're the best we're going to get with Jacob and put just all of the bloopers.
Speaker 2:Well, to be fair, this is like the first time you've ever hosted a podcast. Ever, and recording or of any sort. Yes, you've done some stage work since you've been here. You've done some leadership and you've done teaching and upfront stuff. But it allows your personality, when it's live, your personality comes through in a different way. But when you're doing recording, I mean that's a new set of skills and you've handled it well, thank you. It's part of growing intentionally.
Speaker 1:You stepped into it?
Speaker 2:Were you asked or told that you get to do this?
Speaker 1:I walked past Pastor. Willie and Pastor Elmer. That's hilarious and with zero context. They both turned and said she can do it, that's awesome. And I said what? And they were like just say yes. And I was like no, that's hilarious, that's pretty funny, and here I was.
Speaker 2:We have a statement blessed are the flexible. It's the like 11th beatitude. Yes, it has to be Blessed are the flexible. Well, you're doing a great job. Well, thank you, I appreciate it Today's week seven.
Speaker 1:It is week seven.
Speaker 2:It is week seven. Holy Spirit empowered.
Speaker 1:I know an empowered life. And so real quick. First quick, icebreaker question is what Thanksgiving dish is actually just anointed by the Holy Spirit? Like which one is that for you?
Speaker 2:That's a great question. I used to hate turkey as a kid. I hated it. I thought it was. I think my grandmother just overcooked it and it was always really dry. So as a kid, my parents were divorced. My mom had the three boys and we always, without fail, drove to New Orleans for Thanksgiving or Christmas when we moved to Tennessee it was either one or the other, but my grandmother crushed it on all the sides. We did uh. We do uh dressing, not stuffing. You know the difference, don't you?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:Stuffing is a cornbread oriented stuff. You put in a Turkey and then you pull it out and put it in a tray. But dressing, actually dressing.
Speaker 1:It's. I was about to say there's no G at the end. It's very different.
Speaker 2:My grandmother made oyster dressing, which was super good. It's New Orleans, right, so anyway, her sides were pretty amazing. However, the best thing that my grandmother would make was pecan pie with chocolate chips in it. It's another level to add chocolate chips. I want to encourage everybody who likes pecan pie try it with chocolate chips. You'll never go back. I mean, pecan pie is good on its own, but with chocolate chips in there it's really good.
Speaker 1:So that's probably the one. Yeah, so if y'all hear my stomach growling in the middle of this, okay, here's a real question.
Speaker 2:This will tell the kind of quality of a person. So to everybody listening, the question is what type of cranberry sauce do you?
Speaker 1:get oh out of the can. I'm not even finishing, no, but is it like?
Speaker 2:whole berry or the kind without berries.
Speaker 1:The one without, but like the jelly, like the, it doesn't exist.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's the most disgusting stuff on the table. No, it is not. You got to get the kind with berries in it.
Speaker 1:It's no, with cranberries in it, no, you just get the gelatinous goo, just the goo. So how do you?
Speaker 2:do you let it slide out, or do you?
Speaker 1:scoop it out.
Speaker 2:No, you slide it out with, like the See what I'm telling you and everybody listening to me is making a judgment on both of us right now. I'm whole berry cranberry sauce guy. She is space cranberry sauce, that's right. I think that's what it was invented for to feed astronauts.
Speaker 1:Thanksgiving. I think that's what it was invented for to feed astronauts Thanksgiving. That's right. It's because my future is just out of this world, man.
Speaker 2:It's like a big old can of dog food. You know when it slides out, it's disgusting.
Speaker 1:It's okay, it is blessed is what it is but that pecan pie with chocolate chips slamming yeah, it's good every time, hey, cracker Barrel.
Speaker 2:I like that change a little bit. Cracker Barrel is they cater for Thanksgiving? Their pot roast is probably the best I've ever had. No joke, I don't like to. We don't ever cater meals or whatever. I mean I go out to eat or whatever, but we've never thought about catering a meal like that. But the pot roast at Cracker Barrel unbelievable, some of the best I've ever had. And then they have a cinnamon roll pie. Have you seen that? What? Yeah, it's a pie stuffed with cinnamon rolls. So every bite is cinnamon roll heaven. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 1:And cut. We're going yeah.
Speaker 2:This is moving to Cracker Barrel on location. So clearly I have a food problem because I've been pumping up El Rancho Grande lately and people are complimenting, commenting on it every week, uh, during this series.
Speaker 1:so cracker barrel and orange grande yeah, it's all I need a protein shape place, I guess but yeah, it's okay. It's okay. But one thing um, I bet cracker barrel does use the canned cranberry sauce gross.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying I use canned cranberries I. I just need whole berries, just whole berries.
Speaker 1:That's the difference. You should try it. Wow, that went completely to the left. Let's come into the sermon.
Speaker 2:Well, if your icebreaker started it, all right, here we go, oh my gosh Okay, so Spirit-empowered life. Yeah, holy Spirit-empowered living.
Speaker 1:It is, and we have actually talked about this a couple of times. I love speaking about the Holy Spirit because so many people have a misconception, or all of the fill in the blank, of having the Holy Spirit dwell on the inside of you verse or being baptized in the Holy Spirit, because I think there could be a difference and I think some people hear those terms oh, it's baptized in the Holy Spirit, we are in the South, so can you kind of give a little difference in that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the promise of God that Jesus refers to in John's gospel and then also Peter mentions when the day of Pentecost happens. He says this is the promise the Father talked about. The promise is the coming of the Holy Spirit to dwell with us permanently. So in the old covenant, if you remember the garden of Eden, god the father dwelled with Adam and Eve. It says that he walked with them in the cool of the garden. Well, sin separated that relationship, and the Holy Spirit in the old covenant and the old Testament would come upon someone and leave them, empower them for a season. Samson, for example it says people think Samson's strength was in his hair, but actually his strength was in the rushing of the Holy Spirit on him. So if you read every miracle that Samson did, whether it was the fighting or the fox thing, where he caught all the foxes and ran them through the vineyard with their tails on fire, which is a hilarious way to get people back- it really is Pushing over the columns of the colonnade when he dies.
Speaker 2:It says the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon him. So the activity of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was always temporary. For anointing, for empowerment, same type of behavior, but it was temporary, it was not permanent. And then Jesus comes and he's anointed by the Holy Spirit as well and that anointing rested on him. The Father says at his baptism this is my son, in whom I'm well pleased. And the Bible says the Holy Spirit descended on him like a dove and then his whole ministry was anointed Acts 10, 36, I believe it is 36 or 38 in the sermon today I've mentioned how the Holy Spirit anointed Jesus of Nazareth and he went about doing good, healing all.
Speaker 2:So he carried the anointing, which is different. So in the Old Testament they didn't carry the anointing all the time. They could have been anointed. Like David was anointed by Samuel, they poured oil on him and then, 10 years later is when he became King, but his exploits were with momentary anointings. Jesus carried the anointing and then he said in John 14 that the Holy Spirit would come and take a residence in you and dwell among you and within you.
Speaker 2:So there's multiple, I think part of the challenge with the question that you're asking is because we have such a unilateral view of the Holy Spirit and I think there's a lot of functions of the Spirit honestly. I mean the Holy Spirit. Convicts of sin. That is not part of the hyper-experiential Sunday night church service kind of charismatic crowd energy. You know, that's where people are singing in tongues or doing miracles. Conviction of sin is the Holy Spirit. It's not Jesus writing you an email or you know what I'm saying. It's done by the Holy Spirit. It's not Jesus writing you an email or you know what I'm saying. It's done by the Holy Spirit. He guides us into all truth, he's revealing the truth of God through our reading of the Word and he comforts us.
Speaker 2:Like there's a lot of activity of the Holy Spirit and I think part of our challenge is we have a very unilateral view and so when we bifurcate I'm using grown-up here when we say, well, I have the Holy Spirit, when I'm saved, that's all I need, well, okay, that is part of the work of the Holy Spirit. He comes to dwell in us when we're saved. Romans 7, I believe it is 6, says that it's the Holy Spirit bears witness with our spirit upon salvation. So there is an activity of the Holy Spirit at salvation and there is additionally an act of the Holy Spirit with conviction, comfort, guiding into all truth, so giving us the peace of God. I mean all the really all the work of God in the new covenant is through the Holy Spirit, if you think about it.
Speaker 2:Jesus hasn't left heaven to come, hang out and teach us his word. He sits at the right hand of the Father, interceding for us. So it's the it's in that that allow. It's the Holy Spirit that allows God to also be omnipresent, which is everywhere, all-knowing om the it's in that that allow. It's the Holy Spirit that allows God to also be omnipresent, which is everywhere, all knowing, omniscient and omnipotent, all powerful, and he can do it at all places, at all time. That's how you and I can both be praying for the same thing and God work equally powerfully in both of us, in different places in the world, because he's omnipresent. So part of our problem is we have a very unilateral view of the Holy Spirit. He just does one thing and he just seals you at salvation. That's just not what the scripture leads us to believe. So then your question about baptism language, being baptized in the Holy Spirit. So in the New Testament and really we see this language in Acts and 1 Corinthians it honestly somewhat depends on the translation of the Bible that you read, but the idea of being filled and being empowered is, in my opinion, a better use of language.
Speaker 2:Hebrews says there are multiple types of baptisms. It's kind of a really elusive passage. It's one of the elementary principles of Christianity. I think it's Hebrews six, where he says do not lay again the elementary doctrines of faith, the death and resurrection of Christ. He lists like a number of things and then he says baptisms with an S, which I think is interesting.
Speaker 2:So there is this baptism in the Holy spirit, but I think it's synonymous, honestly, with being filled with the Holy spirit every day. No-transcript, a moment of our journey instead of a recurring reality of our journey. So we say things like this I got saved on Halloween of 97. That's my story. And then I got baptized in the Holy Spirit on such and such day at this location, during this church service.
Speaker 2:And I think that's where it becomes troubling, because then it's like a defining moment instead of a defining way of life, Cause I want to be filled with the Holy Spirit every day and that's the way Paul talked about it Like be filled daily with the Holy Spirit, submit to the Spirit every day. Even the Greek language if you study it out in the Greek, the verb, like the grammar of verbs in Greek, is really hard. It's a lot tougher than English. Verbs in Greek is really hard. It's a lot tougher than English. So that be filled would be a better translated beef being filled and that language be filled with the Holy spirit. It's a kind of an ongoing thing.
Speaker 1:It's like turning on a faucet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Turn it on again.
Speaker 2:It's like watering your plant right so the plant absorbs the water and you got to water it again. It's like keep falling in love with your spouse. You don't just say I loved you when I met you, you know, or when I got married to you, um, you keep pursuing that. And so, baptism in the Holy spirit, being filled with the Holy spirit, being empowered with the Holy spirit I think there's a lot of shared language. The bigger point is that it's an ongoing work of the spirit and it's one of the many ways the spirit works. The Holy spirit works. He seals us at salvation, reckon, reckoning us to the Holy spirit, to our spirit. He gives us, he empowers us, he fills us, he baptizes us. Baptism, by the way, baptized means to submerge. So what you're asking is to be submerged in the power of the Holy spirit.
Speaker 1:Who wouldn't?
Speaker 2:want that, yeah, but you should want it more than just one Tuesday night at a revival service. You should want it all the time.
Speaker 1:But question. But so we talk about. God has more for you, and all of the things leading up to here is that you can lead a spirit empowered life Right. Why would we want that?
Speaker 2:Why would we want to live?
Speaker 1:Why. The question is like we see it, we know it, all of the things, we can feel it, but why? Why is this something that we would want to desire?
Speaker 2:Well, I think, in the natural we don't desire that, which is why the Apostle Paul pushes so much against this war between your flesh, what you want and what God wants by the Spirit. So in the natural we actually don't. I want it my way, I want to do what I want. Don't tell me, don't tread on me, don't step on me. I mean we, and Americans, I think are especially terrible about this because we I mean we started a country on independence.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we did Right, so don't tell me what to do, in the name of God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what we rejected? Monarchy right.
Speaker 2:We rejected Kings and, uh, this whole idea of a lack of independence. So I think Americans intentionally especially struggle with surrender to the kingship of God. But why would we want this? Because if we truly love the Lord, we should love what he wants and desire what he wants. And the scripture tells us this is what God wants for us.
Speaker 2:So the great exchange is what I call it in today's sermon is God will exchange your heart from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh. And then he said I will put my spirit in you and I will teach you how to obey my statutes and laws. I mean, the book of Hebrews says the law, the system of law, of rules, like on a tablet, was insufficient to change a heart, even though all those laws were well. I say all those laws were good. They were the covenant laws with God are good Don't commit adultery, don't murder, love God first. Some of the dietary laws you go, are those good? But they were good in the time and good for the period, the people, et cetera. But the laws of the Lord are perfect for reviving the soul of the psalmist right Psalm chapter something. And so the laws are good but they don't change you. It's like in our culture we have all these laws in America and just because they have them doesn't mean you love them.
Speaker 2:So the great exchange is God says yeah, I'm going to take a legal system out of you and I'm going to put my spirit in you. And if the Spirit of God is controlling us or leading us not controlling us, because we're not robots, we still have free will but if the Spirit of God is controlling or directing us, then Psalm 37, verse 4 says Delight in the Lord. He'll give you the desires of your heart. He starts putting his desires in us. He starts putting his will and his way in us. So why do we want it? Because he wants it for us, and the proof is in the pudding. My first pastor used to say it's a way better life. Yeah, I mean, it really is a way better life. A fruit of the spirit life versus the fruit of the flesh is evident. Sexual immorality, envy, lust, debauchery, gossip, slander, wrath and things like these. You know.
Speaker 2:That cracked me up, the whole things like these, like that's one of those verses you go wow, that really is kind of everything things like these.
Speaker 1:That's one of those verses you go, wow, that really is kind of everything. It sums it all up, it all up.
Speaker 2:But so, in speaking about that, but I think we want it because God wants it for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the answer I mean, and it really is a better way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's why Christ came is to reintroduce us to God. And here's the thing I don't have to go to the garden of Eden to be with God, because he dwells in me now and again. Part of it is our bad theology. We have this view of God the father and we think we're doing this whole life to please God, the father, jesus. Please the father for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If you believe the gospel, then God is pleased with you because you've accepted the atoning work, the pleasing work of Jesus. And now I'm not trying to please the father Christ has pleased him for me. Now the father says now I can live in you by the Holy spirit. So it's, it's the coming to me again. It's like the garden of Eden. You know, they didn't come to the father's throne going. What are our orders? Today? The Bible indicates that the Father walked, came to them, looking for them, and that's what the Holy Spirit is. Now he's come to me and he seeks me out.
Speaker 1:And we get to.
Speaker 2:And we get to, and it's great, it's better.
Speaker 1:And so part—one of the things that you quoted was without the Holy Spirit, discipleship is nearly an exercise in free will, yeah, and we think, we legit think that we're walking in a spirit-empowered life, and fruit is there. We're humbling ourselves, you know. We're forgiving people quickly. We are, you know, people are actively noticing Jesus in us. We're leading small group, we're pastoring a church, we're killing it at the mom thing, we're killing it at the husband thing. We're doing all of that and then we mess up and we burn out. Now what Like does that mean that we aren't functioning out of the Holy Spirit? Because I see stuff like that all day long. Every day is well, I thought I was. So now what If you do go? Oops, I messed up and I accidentally did one of the things that you know. Paul said hey, watch out for this and all of these things you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So now what?
Speaker 2:Well, if I'm being, I mean my candid response to your question is I think your question is a little flawed, and that's not trying to be insulting. Um, if our pursuit is to do all the things, that our pursuit is off and it says wrong. I think it's off.
Speaker 2:Our pursuit should be more of him more of the Holy Spirit, more of his presence in our lives. And the religious pursuit of God is to do all the things, and it's exhausting. I mean, anybody can do something for a little while, you know what I'm saying. Anybody can stop drinking or quit cussing at their boss or stop having sex out of marriage first season, but the flesh is a sneaky friend, you know. And if that flesh is not submitted and it really is a matter of prayer I mean it's that simple, yet that hard People go how do I submit my life to the Holy Spirit?
Speaker 2:Just tell them, just confess it every day, pray it and say it, and then, when you have an opportunity to live in the flesh, wrestle with that decision in prayer. Don't just sit there and try to be stronger than your flesh, because you might be 10 times, but the 11th time you'll, you'll go out. And then what happens? You get in the cycle of um kind of kind of like an abuse cycle. It's just a repetition of I had 10 times of victory and one time I mess up, then I feel bad for a week and then I kind of have a good run with nine times of victory and then it's the 10th time, not the 11th time that I screw up, but I just think your question makes sense.
Speaker 2:But I think the Lord would have us just ask different questions. What does it mean to pursue the Lord and to desire more of the spirit, instead of crush it at the mom thing and the pastor thing and the read my Bible every day thing and the pastor thing and the read my Bible every day thing? We we've got to think and believe that our pursuit of the gospel, our reading the scripture, our going to prayer and all of these things is about growing our life in the Holy spirit. I'm not trying to just know Jesus better, I want to know the heart of the father, I want to know Christ and I want to know the spirit, and I want to. I mean I'm doing life with the Holy spirit, I want to sense his presence.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean your question is probably normal, but I think the pursuit is probably off. You know, let's change the topic. Couples go through this. They're paying their bills, they're raising their kids, they're going all the games, but they're not looking at each other. And then you go. Well, you know, when that relationship turns into conflict, you start justifying all the things you did instead of the one thing that you should have done, which is pursue each other. So that's, that's what I mean. I don't think it's wrong right or wrong like morally maybe just misdirected, but that is very normal to think that the way you're asking.
Speaker 1:I was so hoping you would go there. I was like I'm going to toss it.
Speaker 2:Well, and the other thing too I kind of want to address is you don't do one of those things one time and blow it. You know some, I think people say well, all sins are sins in the eyes of God, so it's kind of a way of diminishing sin, which I think is a it's. It's actually an erroneous view of sin. But not all sins are equal, not all sin, because the damage they do are different. And sexual sin is particularly unique because you're sinning against the body, which is the temple of the Holy Spirit. So I kind of reject that idea. I get where it comes from, but I reject that concept.
Speaker 2:But I think what happens is sometimes we're doing really well and then we do some massive thing, like we blow it and have a major failure, and then we think God can't forgive me or I must not have been really a spirit-filled person at all, and just remember we fight the flesh and it's a legit reality. We get tired, we get out of healthy rhythms or we you know a whole host of things can contribute to why we make a mistake. But you're not losing your salvation over having a mistake. You know what I'm saying and I wrestle with the language. You can lose your salvation. I think you can leave your salvation Now. If you just opt into hey, I'm going to do what I want and I'm going to do this thing anyway and forget the Lord, then, yeah, you can leave the Lordship of Christ, you can walk away from it.
Speaker 1:You have the free will to get into it.
Speaker 2:And that's why Paul was warning going if this is the life you want to live, then you're giving up your inheritance as a child of God. But the life with the Spirit, I mean it is the pursuit. Because I believe in Jesus, I have access to God, the Holy Spirit who wants to live in me, dwell in me, lead me, direct me, empower me, gift me all of those things, and that's a life worth pursuing and it's better.
Speaker 1:It is Yep it can lead to having is empowering you to live righteously Right. It is.
Speaker 2:Which righteousness is not behaving, it's living under the identity that God has for you. Yeah, so he is the one who called like we are the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. The Bible says right. So because of my faith in Christ, he calls me righteous. So you know like when you call out great things in your kids, they believe the things that you call man. You're a world changer. That's what we tell our girls. You're world changers. You're more than conquerors in Christ. You're. You know all these confessions that we have over our girls. And the Bible says that God calls you the righteousness of God. It's not because of what you've done, it's because of what he's done. Then you go okay, lord, help me live that out. I want to live in a way that reflects what you say of me, so he doesn't make you a holier than thou person. He puts you in alignment with what he says about you anyway, because of your faith in Jesus. Am I getting too nerdy here?
Speaker 1:No, no, because I like to be honest with you. We're about to get a little bit nerdier, okay.
Speaker 2:I got my glasses on.
Speaker 1:I like it, push them up, get ready, got it. So, talking about living righteously, I saw this question and it absolutely wrecked me and it said are you so heavenly-minded? You're no earthly good. And I think sometimes knowledge can lead to a misdefinition, like misdefining the word righteousness, and I think some people can get haughty with all of the things that they know, or maybe that they don't know and all of that, and so I'm going to toss this out and you take it and run with it whichever way that you want to, whichever way that, honestly, the Spirit leads you to go, and so I'm going to ask two questions. You get to choose, or you can actually answer both of them. And are you so heavenly-minded? You're no earthly good, or are you so earthly-minded you're no heavenly good, and I want you to go down the hole of good or bad theology when knowing and talking about the Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Boom. How about that for nerdiness? Oh, thanks, you're welcome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're so heavily minded, you're no earthly good, I don't know. I mean, um, yeah, the you're so heavily minded, you're no earthly good, I don't know. I mean again, I. So this is where my head goes in certain questions. I just evaluate the question before the content of the question, and that's that. That question is often used as and I've said it in sermons before, but I think it's often used as a as like a slight against somebody, like you're so holy that you can't talk to real people. You're so like.
Speaker 2:I had somebody tell me actually recently, after the election, I was just having a conversation with a family member about just difference in worldviews and values. It kind of like I talked about in the service a few weeks ago about if we can evaluate policies over personalities and a family member of mine said to me well, man, everything you live your whole life with that the Bible is your perspective on everything. And it was meant to dig on me. I'm this narrow-minded ignorant, I don't know what's going on in the real world, whatever. And so I reflected on that statement actually a lot and I thought well, on one hand I'm grateful that they realize that they recognize it, but I don't, I don't want to be such that I can't have a real conversation with somebody who's not thinking that way. So, um, I mean, jesus was pretty heavenly minded, you know. So he never got in the fray and if he did, if he got into just like worldly stuff, he introduced what the kingdom of heaven is like in that scenario. So I don't think you can be too heavenly minded.
Speaker 2:I think what happens sometimes, that statement comes from people who don't want to be heavenly minded. So they say you're just so holier than thou or super Christian or whatever. So but I get the point that you can be so disconnected from this world that we live in that you can't talk to people in the real world. You know, I interviewed for a pastor once who didn't know any like pop culture references at all. He didn't know who anybody was in the like secular world and he just didn't have a palate for it and appetite for it. And I remember thinking, like man, I'm going to have to interpret for this guy what this. You know what all this stuff means.
Speaker 2:So I get, I don't think you can be too heavenly minded, because it's our eternal destiny, it's where we're headed and we're going to be there a lot longer than we are here. I definitely think you can be so earthly minded that you're of no heavenly I don't want to say good, but you're not of any heavenly perspective. And that's the case in a lot of people. Most of the world, in fact, are so worldly, earthly-minded, they're led by their flesh, led by their impulses, their feelings, that they do not have a kingdom of heaven perspective. And I certainly think that's a challenge, that's a problem, and so our job, like this series, the journey, is trying to move people towards becoming more heavenly-minded, and that's what Christ wanted, that's what the Lord wants for us. But we tie that to charismatic theology, pentecostal theology, and a lot of times those are seen as like the holy rollers or they're. They're so disconnected from real life because all they think about is head in the sand. You know, heaven is my home, whatever.
Speaker 2:And I think, well, again, people want to throw shade on folks who are sincerely pursuing Jesus Christ and the Lordship of God. I don't want to throw shade on people like that, but I get the question Spirit-led people, spirit-filled people, spirit-led people and people who are sincere about their love for God should have a deep burden for the world and a deep burden for lost people and we should know the condition of folks that are far from God without embracing it. You know, like I study actually some of the stuff that's happening in our culture, for example the, the discussion on gender dysphoria, transgenderism or whatever. I mean that's a fairly new phenomenon, and so I'm a student in one regard, because I just want to win that part of the world through Jesus. So I think it's easy to just point a finger and go well, they're doomed to hell and they're a lost cause. I just don't think Jesus would do that.
Speaker 2:So I think spirit-filled people have a hunger for the Lord, have a hunger for the Spirit, but they also have a pulse on what's happening around them so that they can be useful for the Spirit. Right, so Jesus said you'll receive power from me to be my witnesses to them, and so that's the tension we live in. I don't want to be so worldly that I lose the Spirit. I don't want to be so spiritual in the sense that I just ignore everyone who's quote in the world, because that's not actually Pentecostal, that's not spirit-filled. So that transference of the power in me is to reach the people that are far from him. I heard it said when I started out, in preaching great preachers, it's like we preach metaphorically, with a Bible in one hand the Word of God with a newspaper in the other the word of the world and we're trying to intersect those two things with the word winning, obviously, but letting it win in the world that we're preaching it to. So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I just those statements are interesting to me.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I just took on a whole different new light on that too, because it's like, yeah well, it is a double-edged sword whenever trying to speak to people and live in a spirit-empowered life, and I don't necessarily want to say, walk a tight rope, because we're not doing it out of our own power anyways, right, but it is something to be aware of.
Speaker 2:So it's the difference. In academics we see a big difference. It's the difference in a PhD and a doctorate. Yeah, so PhD tends to be the scholarship, the scholarly world, the lab right. People who get PhDs typically not always are not practitioners. People who get PhDs typically not always are not practitioners. So medical science research people get PhDs in biology and PhDs in medical science research and they live in a lab, they're working in theory, they're working in the science of it all. Medical doctors get a doctorate of medicine, not a PhD in medicine. They get a doctorate of medicine, an MD, medical doctorate, because they want to be practitioners. So I didn't get a PhD in New Testament or I didn't get a PhD, I gota doctorate of ministry because I want to be in the church and I want to be in the world right. So if I wanted to teach in the academic space, I would have pursued a PhD, but instead, because I know my space is in the church and like going to games and doing hospital visits and like real world ministry, I pursued a PhD, a doctorate of ministry.
Speaker 2:Rather, and I think that's how we have to treat like if your whole reason of growing in theology and learning more Bible and getting around Christian small groups and some of you this is your. You're listening to this as part of your eighth small group you're a part of, and all you want to do is know more about God, but it never interfaces with the world. That's going back to your question of being so heavenly-minded that you're not. I think I would probably change the question. Instead of saying you're so heavenly-minded you're no earthly good, I would say you're so heavenly-minded you're no good to the world, and that is a problem. Or you're so worldly minded you're no good to heaven.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think there is a balance. There's a tension between the two. You're never going to make it equal. You just have to live in that tension and find a rhythm between I'm spirit filled and I'm in this world where the spirit's winning, and you're aware maybe you're the miracle that the worldliness around you needs to find freedom and that's why God has you there. Like I think about what you and your husband do at Hope Center. You're a miracle to those people. You live through the miracle yourselves and now you're extending that miracle to others for freedom, for deliverance. But yeah, you can't separate the two. You just have to live in the tension of the two and hopefully the kingdom of heaven gets more of your attention. Yes, because the other will corrupt you.
Speaker 1:Oh quickly, yeah for sure, quickly too.
Speaker 2:Well, I could tell that you wanted to go a little further into the nerdiness of Pentecostalness. I mean, I just preached it.
Speaker 1:Four times and I went 10 minutes over each service man. It was fabulous because I also am like that is like, it's always so cool.
Speaker 2:By the way, the Hackies fourth service always gets an extra five minutes over whatever I've done, so there are people that come to that going. We know you go the longest in this service so I went 15 minutes over in the fourth service.
Speaker 1:I was about to say you did, I turned around. Countdown calendar. You didn't care, it was great.
Speaker 2:Well, all the congregation never cares, it's always our team because we've got to turn a church over and I understand that and I'm sympathetic to that. But this is such a nuanced teaching and, honestly, what my temptation was is to just preach against so many erroneous doctrines or misunderstandings or fears. I really wanted to preach against the fear of the Holy Spirit and I think the part of the world we're in some of the doctrinal orientations of folks that come out of traditional churches in this part of the country, I would say most Christians are probably more scared of what they don't know. You know, when I confess to our church that I'm Pentecostal. I have been forever, since I was 18. And I am a Pentecostal pastor in the sense that I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I believe in praying in tongues. I mean, I've had people go what you know, they had no idea. But you know it's not my leading edge as a pastor. Hey, welcome to LifePoint. Everybody, everybody, open up your mouths and repeat Shandai, shandai, you know.
Speaker 2:I don't do that we don't brand our church on it. We brand our church on Christ and the Word and being Spirit-led. But there is so much and I want to write a book on a new, fresh view of life in the Spirit, because I think the church needs it. We've just gotten kind of brand loyal, like I'm either I want Pentecostalism and all that it comes or I don't want nothing to do with it, and I think somewhere in the middle is probably better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe to one side of the middle, but anyway, yeah, I do. I get tempted and it's a hard temptation. I want to speak against fears of the Holy Spirit or misunderstandings or mistruths.
Speaker 1:What's the biggest fear that you see in people, especially with the Pentecostal doctrine of, or just quote unquote, pentecostal because of people who aren't educated, like the Pentecostal church experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:People who aren't educated in what Pentecost is and the reason why the Pentecostal church got their name. If they're not educated in that the world, just like we were saying, they think that Pentecostals we're going to start running around speaking in tongues, handling snakes and playing tamarins.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I've literally had people ask that and fearful of that in our church over the years. So Pentecost has to do with harvest. It's 50 days after Passover and it's a celebration of the first fruits of harvest and so I tell some of my Pentecostal friends, we see so many people saved in our church. It's like the most Pentecostal part of us as a church is we see people saved. So we need to reclaim the brand of Pentecostal. So what happened is in the history of the Pentecostal church movement in America, which is where it really came in the early 1900s, we had just groups of people throughout the country really seeking this theology of spirit empowerment and the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Holy Spirit, right? So in the in the original language of the Greek in the New Testament, the word gift is the word charis, uh, grace, it's a grace, gift, it's an empowerment of the spirit. And, uh, that word charismatic is where that word charismatic comes from. Is really what they were pursuing was the gifts, or the gifts allowed are still available today Gifts of prophecy, healing tongues, miracles, all that kind of stuff. And as they pursue the Lord, this revival broke out and people started operating in these gifts, miracle gifts, one of them being praying in tongues. And then the framers of that movement uh, really just hijacked the word Pentecostal and took that as a brand. So that's where the idea of Pentecostal came from. In in the American Pentecostal church we just took the word Pentecostal cause because they connected it to the Acts, chapter two, experience where the disciples were in the upper room on the day of Pentecost praying and they the tongues of fire and they begin to speak in other tongues. And so they just in my opinion, the early framers of the Pentecostal movement just hijacked the word Pentecostal inappropriately and they shouldn't have. But that has become a brand that people who aren't interested in those gifts or speaking in tongues, or they've been told it's not for today, those gifts are ceased, they're dead Then they automatically brand Pentecostals as a church movement because of their anxiety or fear, lack of belief about the gifts in general. So that's some of it.
Speaker 2:And then you know, if you've been around Pentecostal churches, I mean there's some stuff that happens. Sometimes you just kind of tip your head. I've always been a logical thinking Christian, so I'd see things and I'd go, I'm going to go, look that up, I'm going to search that out, and, um, sometimes people just take a view and sometimes it's arrogant, sometimes it's dismissive or fear-based. I mean, for a lot of reasons. I've had people, I've known people, that just have this really high view of their own theology over anyone who prays in tongues or believes in gifts of the Holy spirit, and they're very much, they very much look down on that. There's church leaders in America right now that actually do whole conferences against gifts of the Holy Spirit and stuff like that and they're very vocal about it and I just I don't know, I think that's a wrong approach too. I don't, I don't ever want to get in the camp that tells God what he can't do anymore. Yeah, I was going to say Jesus said not to do that.
Speaker 1:I have questions about that because it's one of those things that it's like that anyways. I have questions about speaking against it because it's and this is a legit question, because I've never heard their side of it but how do they explain all of the miracles that do happen now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a cessationist would say those aren't real. I've heard cessationist and I'm using that term as a label that I'm not trying to be mean spirited here but yeah, they would say those miracles aren't real, they're fascinations. Or I've even heard and this is where it gets really risky, in my opinion I've heard, I've myself heard with my own ears. I haven't heard that somebody said, but I've heard people say that it's, um, you've opened yourself up to a counterfeit spirit or even the devil. And that's where I'm really cautious, cause like I may think something's weird or strange, or like I don't get it you know, but I'm not going to give the devil credit for stuff that okay.
Speaker 2:So then, what's the fruit of it? So God does a miracle, a healing, let's say for someone. Fruit of it, so God does a miracle, a healing, let's say for someone. Um, we had a lady in my first church in Knoxville who had a bone spur x-rayed, bone spurs on her heel and God miraculously healed her to where she was jumping up and down, went back to the doctor, got a new x-ray and had no more bone spurs in her bone in her foot. But okay, so then the real, the result of that lady. Her name's Terry Um, she went further in devotion to christ and told more people about christ. Yeah, and so you go.
Speaker 2:The devil did that. I don't think jesus said I will tolerate any sin except the blasphemy of the holy spirit. And what he was referring to is essentially giving the devil credit for what god's doing. Because the ph, the Pharisees, were saying Jesus when he had raised a dead person, I think it was and they said he has a demon, he is serving Beelzebub. And Jesus stopped the whole meeting basically and was like wait a minute, you can sin and it'll be forgiven, but you blaspheme the Holy Spirit. He actually said he didn't say you're blaspheming me by the way. He's saying you're blaspheming the Holy spirit. It's the work of the Holy spirit, the same Holy spirit that works in us. And he said for you to give that credit to the devil, I'm not going to forgive that.
Speaker 2:So I'm very cautious in any group and any people that want to. You know, and I've had people send me clips and you know uh, articles about why the gifts aren't for today. But whenever they go into, that's the devil man. I'm real nervous about that. You can say you don't believe it. You can say it's weird. You can say you don't like it. That's your prerogative because you have free will. But giving a sovereign move of the Holy Spirit credit to the devil is super risky. Where Jesus said I won't forgive that. You know that kid that got healed in Trinidad I shared the story about. I laid hands on his face and God healed his abscessed tooth. I'm no dentist but you know when you have tooth pain how to make it hurt.
Speaker 1:You were for a second.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. You know how to make you know when you have a tooth pain. You know how to make it hurt. You know how to feel it. And that kid was in so much pain and then he was completely healed and gave his life to Christ. I remember he was so moved emotionally, he was weeping, and he came here's the rest of the story. He had come with, like um, his gang of buddies.
Speaker 2:There was about 15 dudes and they were watching this service we were doing on the street the entire time. There we were in an outdoor mall area, kind of like a strip mall, but it had like a courtyard area, and there was probably 300 people that had just gathered here in Trinidad and there was this group of guys and they were laughing and they were poking fun at us for what we were doing and they all had this kind of old school. They had brown paper bags with 40-ounce beers in them. I mean, you've got to remember Snoop Dogg was popular back in these days. Oh, this is great. They all had big 40 ounce beers in brown paper bags, including this kid, and they're all standing back watching us and that kid came for prayer for his tooth for healing, got healed, gave his life to Jesus and walked back to his group of guys and walked past them and left them. That moment they're looking at I think he was like a leader in their group and they're looking for him to come back and like clown around with him. He walked right through the crowd and he left them. He like left his gang that day, basically. So that's a changed life.
Speaker 2:So why would the devil do that? You know what I'm saying. So I'm always really cautious about groups like that and I just say there may be things I don't understand about God, but I'm not going to say that God can't, including help me, pray in tongues or do a miracle through us or you know whatever. I just believe we serve a big God. If he can literally create the expanding universe from nothing he didn't have a toolkit, he didn't have a bucket of dirt in heaven that he was like I'm gonna try this. He literally breathed it. Bucket of dirt in heaven that he was like I'm going to try this. He literally breathed it into existence Then I think he can heal that kid's tooth Absolutely. I mean, that's not a big deal to him.
Speaker 1:And I don't know. I just with you telling the rest of the story. It makes me go. I wonder if he had ill intentions, walking up to you to try to prove you.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe I think he, I think he heard well, it may be, but I think he heard the gospel and he heard that God can heal him. And he was in so much pain he didn't have another option. Yeah, and he met the Lord that day and we connected him. Uh, we ended up connecting him to that church. So cool.
Speaker 1:Have you? Have you heard anything like from him? Like did, did you know? Okay, no, I mean we we left it.
Speaker 2:You know, I was 18. Then I went to college and kind of my life, I met stephanie and my life took a different direction. But but honestly, that's kind of the cool. There's so many stories in the bible. People got healed. You never heard from again. You know the kid that fell out of the window and what was his name? Um, it'll come to me when paul was preaching, yeah, and he fell out of the window and died and paul said he's not dead. And they're like no, for real, he's dead. He goes well, let's go wake him up, let's go revive him so they raise him from the dead. And he went back to preaching, which is hilarious. But we never heard from that kid again either yeah there's so many stories.
Speaker 2:Just that's part of the spirit for life. You're just ready to be used whenever god wants to use you, and then you just keep keep rolling yeah so but yeah, it's a great.
Speaker 2:It's a great study, um study. And somebody asked me after one of the service what's a good book to read on the Holy Spirit. And I would recommend Anointing by RT Kendall. That's a great book. Pastor Chris Hodges had a series on the Holy Spirit and he actually does a message on churchofthehighlandscom. He actually does a message on the baptism in the Holy Spirit, which I think is really strong. It's pretty good. And then just be a big student of John's Gospel and the Book of Acts and Luke's Gospel too. I think Just read that a lot. If you want to do some study on the Holy Spirit before you read books, read the Bible and even just do a word search on the Holy Spirit throughout the whole scripture. It's the Holy Spirit's all over the Bible and he's good. He's drawn us close, he's empowering us and he hasn't stopped doing that. That's what he wants for us.
Speaker 1:I love it. So if you could, if you could, just if you could, sum up your sermon in the simplest, in the most simplest form, what would your final thoughts be, whether you'd said it in your sermon or not, if you could say one last thing about your sermon and just living a spirit-empowered life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the Christian life is a Spirit-filled life and it's the promise of God for you. It is the gift of God for you. The gift is the Spirit-filled life. Right, the Holy Spirit is the gift for you. He is the gift for you.
Speaker 1:And God has more.
Speaker 2:I think honestly, I feel just okay, we believe in the Trinity but we have, like these, places where the father fits, the son fits and the Holy Spirit fits. Just believe they all fit and more. God has more for you. So I don't know. That's why I pursue it. Paul said, excuse me, in first Corinthians, 12, 13, 14, when he's writing about the Holy Spirit, particularly about gifts of the Holy Spirit, he says eagerly desire, eagerly desire the gifts of the Spirit, eagerly desire them, which means you have to desire the Spirit. So that's what I would tell you Just eagerly desire it. Don't shut it down because of how you were raised. I mean, you're from this part but you've been around the Pentecostal world for long enough to have a perspective that is real open to it. But some of our listeners, it's all brand new and you don't know what to do with it. And I would encourage be careful that you don't just talk it up in a group so much that you don't go spend time in the Bible and let God talk to you about it.
Speaker 1:And research, because there are boundaries within gifts and all kinds of stuff you know there's. So educate. Educate yourself on what God says through the Bible.
Speaker 2:And more than books about the Holy Spirit, go read the Bible. Read the Bible. Yep, this is fun Well thank you.
Speaker 1:God has more God has more. You're welcome I wonder how many times we you.
Speaker 2:God has more.
Speaker 1:God has more. You're welcome I wonder how many times we can say God has more.
Speaker 2:Probably a lot. We can say it more. God has more for us to say he does In more ways for us to say God has more.
Speaker 1:He does.
Speaker 2:So I just said it three more times Absolutely, god has more.
Speaker 1:God has more. Well, we're coming to the last one.
Speaker 2:It's a life of gratitude and a life of virtue as we walk with God. Now let's walk this out gratefully. I think gratitude is a missing virtue in our culture, and here we are, on the front of the weekend before Thanksgiving, and so I'm going to push on the issue of gratitude and the topic of gratitude, how to walk it out, how to live with gratitude in every situation. And it impacts what you believe, it impacts your behavior, it does.
Speaker 1:And it helps you not punch your family members in the face during Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:Fighting over cranberry sauce, over cranberry sauce. Full circle joke. Look at you. Look at you Full circle joke Brought it all the way back.
Speaker 1:You said I'm the one who can bring things back.
Speaker 2:Look at you.
Speaker 1:You've been sitting on that this whole time, haven't?
Speaker 2:you, nope, it was inspiration. You were still salty about it, forgiveness I just want everybody to admit that whole berry cranberry sauce is better.
Speaker 1:God has more for you, Pastor.
Speaker 2:Ryan, that's right, you said it again A spirit-filled and spirit-empowered life.
Speaker 1:You do have the ability to forgive.
Speaker 2:I forgive you for eating that garbage, All right everybody All right, guys.
Speaker 1:Well, we love you so much and we will see you next week. Peace out everyone See ya.
