Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
This podcast was intended to resource our Dream Teamers at LifePoint Church, with biblical fundamentals on worship, life and a variety of leadership principles.
Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative
The Art of Spiritual Discernment in Leadership
This episode emphasizes the significance of discernment, relationships, and cultural growth in effective leadership. Our hosts share personal experiences and essential strategies to inspire a shared vision while addressing conflict and fostering longevity in ministry.
• Engaging in discernment through a strong relationship with God
• The critical role of relationships in effective leadership
• Techniques to inspire teams and build culture
• Approaches for resolving conflict in a constructive manner
• The importance of personal well-being for long-lasting leadership
• Current leadership opportunities for the church in society
Hey, what's going on, everybody, and welcome to Worship and Leadership by LifePoint Creative. My name is Elmer Canas Jr and it's always a privilege to be able to spend this time together with you, and today we're going to be talking about leadership, and to talk about leadership, we got the one and only Willie C Simpson Jr. Yo, what is up? What's going on, bro? I'm geeking man. I'm excited You're geeking episode. This is not the second episode, but second time we meet.
Speaker 2:This is the second time this year 2025.
Speaker 1:Yes, hey, and coming back for 2025. Yes, the one and only.
Speaker 2:The one and only Tiffany, the Terrific.
Speaker 1:Should I say it.
Speaker 3:Say what? Do you have another name? No.
Speaker 1:No, oh man, she has a new name for this year she has a new name.
Speaker 2:Yes, really.
Speaker 3:Really.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 3:I forgot.
Speaker 1:Hold on, I'm texting you.
Speaker 3:Oh, I forgot. Okay, oh man, I just lied in church.
Speaker 1:I'm texting you. Oh, I forgot. Okay, oh man.
Speaker 3:I just lied in church, I didn't forget.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, Tiff. You have another name.
Speaker 3:It was another one that was given to me, not by my choice.
Speaker 2:What is it?
Speaker 3:Somebody called me a grocery store.
Speaker 1:Princess, yes, yes, that's what it is.
Speaker 2:What does that mean?
Speaker 3:I think sometimes when you're choosing joy in the grocery store, it might be annoying to some people. Maybe.
Speaker 1:Grocery store.
Speaker 2:Wait a minute, so you're annoyed. Okay, were you being silly in the grocery store? No, I was just being nice, you. You were annoyed. Okay. Were you being silly at a grocery store?
Speaker 3:No, I was just being nice.
Speaker 2:You were being nice I was being nice.
Speaker 3:And they said, excuse me, grocery store princess Like that. Wow, you know it's okay, man, it's okay.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. So basically, somebody was grumpy, they were being a Grinch, and they they were being a grinch and they were annoyed at the fact that you were choosing Joy.
Speaker 3:You were being nice and kind yeah. Compassionate yeah, yes, you know you could be called worse things.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:You could be called worse things you can, but we're glad that you're on the podcast today.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm glad to be here. Grocery store princess. Hey, I'll take it All right, it's hilarious, oh man.
Speaker 1:Hey, today we're going to be talking on the topic of leadership.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And you know, just amongst this, at this table, we've all been able, privileged to be able to lead at different capacities from everything, from different places of employment, and and we get to do so here at LifePoint Church and leading our teams and leading dream teams. So we're going to dive in and talk about it. So, pastor Willie, you have a few questions. I do.
Speaker 2:I have a lot of questions today and I may or may not have had help from AI Anyway. So you know everybody like when they talk about leadership, they talk about the low-hanging fruit. You know like, you know you got to be smart, experienced all that sort of stuff. But I think an often overlooked attribute is discernment. So I'd like to ask both of you, pastor Elmer and Tiffany how do you, over the course of your leadership, over the many years you've led, how do you discern what the Lord is doing? How do you discern when you need to shift and pivot?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll let you start.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think personally you can tell when you're not 100% spending all the time you can with the Lord and kind of doing things in your own power and sometimes leadership.
Speaker 3:It's easy to kind of put things into categories and then run with it and I don't know he just nudges me. Usually, I mean, if there's something you're just kind of doing and he wants to do something different, I think that's just spending time with him. I think with people, I think it's knowing the difference between if he's giving you discernment because you need to build a relationship with that person and you need to pray for that person, yeah, and learning the difference between that and kind of being judgy. I think sometimes, when you have a lot of discernment over things, sometimes it's easy to just kind of you know the Lord shows you things to just, I don't know, not build that relationship with that person when that's what he wants you to do. Usually, Usually it's somebody he wants you to lead and build a relationship with and pray for and pray with that's good, I think it's knowing the difference.
Speaker 2:That's good. What about you, pastor Elmer? How do you discern when God's kind of leading you to shift and pivot, to shift and pivot? You discern when God's kind of leading you to shift and pivot.
Speaker 1:To shift and pivot. It's a feeling, I think, that I've learned to identify over the many years, just from everything from ministry to just life. You know, it took a while to identify it. A lot of times we don't know how God speaks to us, but it's one of those things that you learn to identify through relationship with the Lord and trusting Him.
Speaker 1:I think, that's the biggest thing trusting Him. There's a lot of times I'm being led to share something with an individual. There's been times where God puts something in my heart specifically, sometimes even detailed, to share with certain individuals that I might not even know well and I have no relational equity. But at that moment it's like am I obedient or do I save face with someone that I don't even know very well and you know, just for the sake of like?
Speaker 1:but, I, want them to like me, and I've always chosen, the majority of the time, to you know, air with obedience. And as you do it more and more and you walk in obedience, god allows you. It becomes almost like an instinct that you still always second guess, because you're like is this a thing that, like God, is this you or is this just me? Like, am I being led by emotions? Is this a thing that, like God? Is this you or is this just me? Like, am I being led by emotions? A lot of times, especially someone like myself, I'm always trying to find solutions. And how do I fix this? How do I? How can I help? You know I always want to help and so it's easy for me to get caught up with.
Speaker 1:My wife calls it my Elmer-ness and I think we all have some sort of that you know like willingness, yep and grocery store princess-ness yeah.
Speaker 1:And we all have this thing in our human condition where we want to be in control of it. And let me figure it out, yeah, you know. And so then just surrendering that and asking the Holy Spirit like, all right, god, what do you want me to do? And so it's hard, it's not easy, but all right, god, what do you want me to do? And so it's hard, it's not easy, but that's been. I hope I'm answering your question, but that's been what's helped me be able to stop and pivot and even understand when I'm actually discerning something, because sometimes it's just I'm hungry.
Speaker 2:Yeah right.
Speaker 1:But then there is those moments where it is the Holy Spirit leading me in saying something or changing something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good To your point. That's the tricky part, because there's no chapter and verse with a lot of those decisions. And you're like, yeah, it's a prompting, it's a nudge, it's an urge. And you're like, okay, is this me, is it you? Which is why I think we have the Holy Spirit sometimes to give us that nudge and also peace to accompany, like, hey, okay, god, I don't really know, I don't have the whole thing figured out, I just sense I have this peace and this comfort that you're with me.
Speaker 2:For me personally, I have learned to lean into internal promptings and external circumstantial changes. Sometimes I feel like the Lord can use a change in a circumstance or a change in a passion of mine. I was reading years ago, I read the scripture and I thought man, the prophet Elisha. He has this incredible ministry experience where God uses Elisha to confirm to all these pagans that he's the one true God. And then he flees. You know, jezebel threatens him and he flees and he's in the wilderness and he's by this babbling brook and the angels come and feed him, the birds feed him. An angel come and ministers to him and all this. And then Elisha, he knows to move because the brook dries up he's like, well, I'm not going to stay here. And then he moves further down and he's fed, and then the brook dries up again and he knows to keep on moving and I think sometimes the discernment you know for us to be keenly aware.
Speaker 2:I think discernment is a mix of faith and common sense. Use the brain God gave you to look at these shifts, these signs that the Lord might be moving you into a new area, a new season, a new perspective. There's another story where Jacob is moving his family through the wilderness and he's going to dig up these wells of his father. And he goes to one well and some herdsmen come and they're fighting over the well and he names a hostility and he moves further down.
Speaker 2:He goes to one well and some herdsmen come and they're fighting over the well and he names a hostility. And he moves further down and he says let me dig this well up and more herdsmen come and they fight and he names it fighting or warring. And then he moves to another place and then he names I want to say Rehoboth, it means a wide place Like okay, now there's no hostility, there's no fighting, there's no drama. Sometimes the Lord will use external circumstances to signal to us hey, this is where I'm leading you to. Maybe it's open doors or closed doors, and the discernment is that spirit-led keenness to sense okay, lord, you might be leading me to this, you know. Yeah, and again, there's no chapter and verse. That's the hard part. It's not chapter and verse, that's the hard part.
Speaker 1:It's not. It's not black and white, one of the things we're asked a lot. My wife and I are like how did you know, or how did you guys muster up the strength or knowledge, whatever we needed to move to Australia when we moved to Sydney? And it wasn't so much the strength or even the courage, it was simply being obedient, like we were in a season where we're living here in America and we're specifically asking God, god, we want to be part of a local church and we made a list Like these are the things we'd love to see for our families, for us. Not nothing fancy, nothing crazy, you know, but this is what we're wanting. The intimacy community nothing crazy, you know, but this is what we're wanting. Yeah, the intimacy community.
Speaker 1:And and when, while we're in australia and I was working with a team out there doing consulting and like everything, I was praying for my wife and I, like, was right in front of her, so it was almost common sense, like yeah, like hey, here's everything you're asking me for, and and we were just sensing it all around us like man, this feels so right and so, but I would have never known and I tell this to people I would have never known that moment and I would have never felt that being there if I would have never said yes to my previous season. And so it's the pattern of obedience that led us to that place. And while I was there serving the church I was just serving, I wasn't even hired. When I was there visiting, while I was serving that team there, like the obedience led me to that moment where, like everything I was asking for and for my family was right in front of us.
Speaker 1:And so I didn't even think and as a guy, I made the impulsive decision saying like, hey, pastor, you wanted to hire me once, like if you would take me. I didn't even think and my wife's like, what did you just do? And but it was because I think the pattern of obedience in our lives is saying yes to the Lord, yes, I'm available, I'm willing. And the more you step into that, like it just, you learn to identify I'm available, I'm willing, and the more you step into that you learn to identify.
Speaker 1:I'm in God's perfect will and I had a pastor, my pastor. He's gone with the Lord, pastor Jadon, and he told me once when I had this choice to make, where I could have gone to different ministries and I was conflicted because of relationships and different things, and he goes. He told me he goes, son, whichever choice you make, like, just be at peace. I'm like how am.
Speaker 1:I going to be at peace. I don't want to mess up and being out of God's will and he goes. He goes. You'll still be serving God's people, you'll still be this net. He goes. And you'll never be out of God's perfect will as long as you're being obedient to what he's called you to do, which is to serve the people.
Speaker 1:That's good and so I had the privilege of choosing where but God was able to lead me. But that put me at peace because it made me realize that my decision, my own abilities to make decisions, it's not greater than God's potential. I don't know how to word it, I'm sorry, I'm trying to think about it. But his plan, yeah of, I don't know how to word it. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to think about it. But but his, his plan, his plan, yeah, Like, my decisions aren't greater than his plans for my life, yeah, Like. And so sometimes we think that our mistakes disqualify us. They might delay things, you know, but it doesn't mean that God has to rewrite a whole nother you know plan for our life.
Speaker 2:Like he has.
Speaker 1:God has to rewrite a whole nother plan for our life. He has a plan for our lives, and so just walking in obedience helps us move towards his plans and for them to unfold, and I think that's where this whole pivot and stopping and listening is. It's when you're following the plan of God for your life and it helps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good man, I love that. Come on, come on, tiff, you got something to add to that. I feel you got your Shandai activating over there.
Speaker 3:No, no, I think that's great and I think it's like he gives you a nudging, I think, when things need to shift. But I also think it's just that awe and wonder that we get to sit in with him, like even when things are where they're supposed to be, like looking at where we've come and where he has led us and just being thankful for that in every season and trusting that there are dry seasons and there are seasons where you're going through something, but we can't mess up his plan. You know like his plan is his plan and it's good no matter what. Yeah, so just always staying in that and, you know, being aware when things are great too and things are where they should be, just always, you know keeping our eyes fixed.
Speaker 2:Come on, that's great. So, of course, when we talk about leaders and leadership, I mean we have to talk about development, right? You know? You heard it said if you're a leader and nobody's following you, then you ain't doing nothing but taking a walk. You're just strolling down the road, strolling, you're just strolling down the road, so you're just strolling, going for a stroll. So how do you, pastor Elmer, and Tiffany, the Terrific Grocery Princess, how do y'all develop relationships, leaders who want to follow not just you, but want to follow the vision that you cast, because I think that's the biggest thing. It's one thing to follow a person, it's another thing to follow a vision. So how do you inspire people? How do you make vision compelling where people say I want to buy into that? You know, in the course of your ministry leadership, how have you done?
Speaker 1:that. Well, first you have to be bought in yourself. I've been in places where I've struggled to really embrace the vision myself, and so then you're trying to not so much, you know, lack of a better term sell something that you're not fully bought into like yourself. There's the mission of Jesus Christ, like of the church. I go and make disciples and you know, and we're leading people to Jesus and stuff. But then there's like when you're part of an organization, part of a team, it's like all right, so what are we about? There's always culture that will shape how people see things, and so, because you could say, we have the best product in the world, but then the culture, the environment itself isn't welcoming, and so people feed off of that and they're like yeah, I don't want nothing to do with that. And so, um, even when I've struggled I've with with vision, I've always found like what can?
Speaker 1:I lead them to Like what do I embrace fully, like so and just, you know, some advice for people that you might be in a place of employment and you feel like, like I'm not all about this place, like this place is the worst, but there has to be something positive, you know. And so then take, take your situation, cause if God has you there for a reason, he has you there for a reason to take whatever it is that you can grab onto and begin pointing people to those things and lead them and then just go all out. You know, a lot of times we rather tear things apart and they have to fit our mold and what we want.
Speaker 1:But it's not about what I want. You know, only cause I didn't agree with it Doesn't mean that like I can't lead people in that environment, and so so I had to. It started with me. I had to be like, all right, I'm going to go all in and um, and then creating the culture, the environment that cultivate, like hey, I want to be a part of this. Yeah, like I want to jump on this boat. Where is it going? You know, because a lot of times people, through relationships, they're willing to go with you as long as they go together, and it's even better.
Speaker 1:Like, honestly, I love LifePoint, I love what we're all about here at LifePoint Church and and like it's it's one thing that we have an incredible, you know, mission and vision, and like these things are so clear for people that come on that are brand new. It's like man, like I get it, like immediately, it's not hard. But then, like the culture and the environment and all these other things help make it easier to want to move forward, help make it easier to want to move forward, you know, and so, and then it becomes about the journey for every individuals. Like the journey, the what they're going through as individuals, the relationship side. So I I've I've always been about relationship, culture and then really pointing to the vision and mission, cause not everyone's going to get it, they're not going to understand it immediately, but if you're in a relationship with them and if you're creating an environment, you know a certain culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That people want to be a part of where they feel like they belong, then eventually they're going to understand like, hey, this is the vision and the mission of where we're going.
Speaker 2:That's so good, yeah. Yeah, they're bought in. Like you said you got to be bought in as a leader yes, all day. Like you said, you got to be bonded as a leader yes, and they can see that they can sniff out in all this in authenticity, yeah, and genuineness, yeah.
Speaker 1:That that's great and just real quick and yeah, and even even in the conflict, at times where I've been like I'm not sure, I'm not 100 sure yeah like I've never. I never did it in secret, like from my leaders, like I. I always honored. I think that's one thing, that that we've lost a lot in our culture today is the honor piece.
Speaker 1:And that's why it's easy for people to be like I'm not about this place, because we lose the sense of honor, because when we honor, we're lifting up someone else and we're putting ourselves down and, regardless of what I was feeling, I'm like God, do you have me here? I always use the word assignment and I always feel like when God positions me somewhere, it's because I'm on assignment there to serve. You know, in this case I'm serving Pastor Mike, pastor Stephanie, you know LifePoint Church, and because I see life through that perspective, even if I don't agree with some things, that happen like I understand, like I'm here, I'm going to honor them and we're going to move forward, and so I'm never going to like dishonor my leaders, I'm never going to talk behind their backs.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure that I'm fulfilling. Again back to my original point at the beginning obedience. Like you know I can't be somewhere out of obedience and then live disgruntled and do things behind people's backs and still think I'm obeying God. No, like I, it's a full package, like if I'm all in from the beginning and I said yes to God, I need to say yes to my leaders Come on. And then I'm moving forward and it might be hard, but it's. It's part of how we grow.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so um. So that's all part of.
Speaker 2:Hey, come on, man.
Speaker 1:I wish I was at the soundboard I got the organ tuned up on that one right there.
Speaker 2:Was that an organ sound? That's what it sounded like to me.
Speaker 3:Tim, I don't know an organ sound, I don't know, I don't know, but I do. That's culture building, because if you're building a culture of gossip and being disgruntled, I mean those are the people that you're leading after you to do the same thing to you ultimately, and it trickles down. I mean it's the culture that you're building. And I think just giving language to the things, like I love how our mission vision is simple and we have core values, like we can give language as we're developing leaders, like they have language to, as as we're developing leaders, like they have language to it and they have language, you know, they can kind of check in, they can give to others. I think culture is important. I think serving alongside people, even in the small stuff, and I think, um, that, that their attitude in that says a lot. Are you a servant leader or do you want to just, you know, be a leader, to have power and to dictate? Um, I think that says a lot.
Speaker 2:Are you a servant leader or do you want to just you?
Speaker 3:know, be a leader, to have power and to dictate. I think that speaks a lot. If people are willing to serve with you in the small, then you can entrust them with more.
Speaker 2:That's great, yeah, from the both of you. I'm really gleaning on leaning over, leaning into the people, the relationship over the process, because that'll take care of itself. Right, you know, most processes are, at their core, pretty good. I mean, there's no perfect system, but most are pretty good at matriculating people through like a development, like teaching them things, kind of graduating them. But that the secret sauce really is a relationship, relationship.
Speaker 1:Because I could try to sell you a car Right, but I'd rather go on a walk with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, and that's the thing, go on a walk with you. Yeah, like, and that's the thing. A lot of people want to move people quick, but I don't want to just hand people onto a vehicle like, yeah, like just again analogies that probably don't make sense, but I'd rather go on the journey and walk with someone versus just like here's a car you know like, okay, that'll be great for them, yeah, but then they lose the relationship aspect.
Speaker 1:there's things that I need from them and there's things that they'll need for me that we'll only know if we do life together. That's good and that's what I love about LifePoint Church and how we do things is is it's it's you and a who and small groups is the best things we do and, and you know every aspect, from kid point to students, to even our creative Thursday nights you know when we have our rehearsals like small groups is embedded in everything, because we want to make sure people are doing life together with others, because we're not meant to do life alone.
Speaker 3:Right, right. And it's easy to sell leadership. It's easy to tell somebody I want to develop you to be a leader, and here's a checklist of all the things you know, you need to learn this, you need to learn this, you need to learn this.
Speaker 3:And some people will be like that's cool, I can lead, but that's not what leading is, and that's not being a servant leader, that's not having the heart of a leader. That's a checklist, and I think that that leadership itself is easy to sell, but culture is the hardest part to maintain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when we're training our worship leaders, people are like I want to be a worship leader, I want to be the best, whatever. And so some of our gatherings have basically been on like how do we serve people? Yeah, and I tell our team all the time, like you know, your greatest ministry is off the platform. It's not what you do on the platform on Sunday.
Speaker 1:It's what we do off in conversations in the lobby and loving people, and so leadership begins. You know the influence begins in relationships, yeah, and so it's not a position that gives you the influence of. Unfortunately, in some corporate jobs or even in ministry, we've seen where positions and titles get abused Right, but you know you don't move people forward just because of a title.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's through relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's so good. The influence, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, and to both of y'all's point, I mean leading through relationships. Inevitably that's going to lead to conflict Because, like you said, you're bringing people in. There are gaps in division, there are gaps between where they are and where God wants them to be, and the price you pay for that relational equity, that closeness, is conflict. So, Tiffany, what is your approach in resolving conflict with those that you lead?
Speaker 3:Like if I personally have conflict with somebody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just conflict within the team teams that you lead.
Speaker 3:I think it's recognizing it right away and not letting it grow and build and just become this uncontrollable you know thing, especially within the team and, of course, with myself. I think, like I've already said, giving language to things, having words to speak, helps a lot. Like hey, I noticed, you know, you kind of haven't been choosing joy lately. You know, like, what's up with that? Like, is there something I can help you with being positive with people, not like I'm going to call you out on all of these things and walk away with your head down.
Speaker 1:Like care about those people, like I've already built that relationship.
Speaker 3:They know that I care about them. They know that I love them because that relationship has already built. Care about them. They know that I love them because that relationship has already built. So when conflict inevitably arises because you're going to have conflict with people, they don't look at it as so horrible because we already have that relationship and they know that I care. And I'm not calling it out because I dislike them, I'm calling it out because I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think that approach, I think on a team, if it takes getting people in the office together and again choosing positive language, the word conflict just sounds so icky and just mean. You know like it just sounds like I'm going to fight you. You know, right, right. But it doesn't have to be Like. You can come out the other end of conflict better than you went in. You know, because you, there's resolution.
Speaker 2:That's so good yeah.
Speaker 3:I think, looking at it as an opportunity for a conversation, yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's a misunderstanding. How'd it go at the, at the grocery store?
Speaker 3:I. I might've had to choose to just smile and walk.
Speaker 1:There's some circumstances you don't have to.
Speaker 3:It wasn't maybe not engage. Maybe, not the time I've not built a relationship with that person.
Speaker 2:You just avoid conflict altogether. You don't even. Yeah, there's no conflict to resolve, because I'm just avoiding it. You're the bigger person. Come on, yes, you were the bigger person. You spread holiday cheer.
Speaker 3:I was trying not to get my Cali face going. It was right before the snow, so the grocery stores were already. People were grumpy because the shelves were empty and I'm just like what can I get from here to make something yummy? Just trying to choose it and try not to go down the. Everything I need is gone. It's okay, that's great wisdom, that's okay, that's great wisdom.
Speaker 2:That's an aspect. Of leadership is wisdom.
Speaker 1:Pastor Elmer, what's your approach to resolving conflict? Resolving conflict, man, having a conversation. I think if you walk in fear of having the conversation, things will get worse and worse. There's a way of having the conversation. I think a lot of times we see conflict as, oh, people are being disobedient or they don't care. But sometimes people do care and out of their love for someone, for ministry, for other people. Sometimes you know we're all different.
Speaker 3:We're all individuals.
Speaker 1:Everyone has a different method or process and, again, one of the things that helps us around here is, through our core values we're able to bring, you know, alignment just in how we operate, and that helps us if we're developing people on how to resolve conflict together, and you know, hey, this is our culture, so then we try to teach. This is how we do things, this is how we address certain things. Correction's going to happen. You know, in part of what we do in production and worship.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of correction at times of like, hey, don't get these shots anymore. Or like, hey, you keep cutting off their head, you know, on the screens, or you're singing the wrong parts, and there's a lot of times that these, some of this feedback is going to offend people because they're like, oh, look at my art, you know, look at my, I'm using my gift, look at what I can do, and you're, you're invading some other personal, intimate space. Cause they're, they're, they're putting their gifts out there for people, and you know, and and it's easy for people to get offended, but I've learned like, hey, I'm going to get feedback quick and as fast as I can and and have the conversation.
Speaker 1:I've learned. I've learned. Just, you know, sometimes, when you wait too long, um, it's worse.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Especially if you have an initial conversation, it actually hurts and and sometimes people depending on, like what your position is or role. Uh, I, I'm learning more and more man, sometimes like I can't even do auditions anymore. Like I don't do auditions because as soon as I walk in, people freak out.
Speaker 1:I'm like oh yeah like, don't freak out, like, come on, that's just me, little old me, and you don't understand, like the lens that people see through and it's a, it's a level of respect you know that they have for for you and as a leader.
Speaker 1:And so there's, there's some emotional things that happen with other people and we don't know that people feel that towards our leadership, you know, there's admiration, there's all these things that happen just because we get to influence them and lead them, you know, through pastoral care and just loving on them and stuff, and so sometimes we just think we're just talking to our brother or our sister or, you know, or our kids. But there's a lot more that happens. And so confronting the situation, talking to people as soon as possible and then doing it in a graceful way, I think that's been the key that I've learned over time. I've not always done it. In the past, as a younger leader, I remember just being straight to the point, always quick, but like, just like, like you suck. You got to get better at this and just didn't care about hurting people's feelings. And you know but that that doesn't help people, it doesn't grow them.
Speaker 1:If anything it draws them away from you because, you know, do I want them to get better? Yeah, but, like how can I help them get better?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So if, if I'm trying to give you advice on like hey, here's some things you can do, uh, like my pastor did to me, he's like hey, you have to, you have a decision to make, but hey, just know that you know, either decision you make, you know there's some affirmation to like hey, don't, don't worry about it Like don't worry about me messing up, um and so as the older I'm getting, I hope I'm getting better at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because it's one of the things that we struggle a lot in this world, where people are scared of making decisions. Yeah, especially this next generation. They just rather not deal with a lot of things because they don't want confrontation.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because every time they're confronted, they feel judged. And so how do we confront people in a way where, where it's it's, it's building them up as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it might not be like loving it, it's going to be hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Like. But how do you have a hard conversation, still out of love, you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, One thing I've learned from your team, Elmer, and it was last year and I actually I overheard this from another conversation we don't blame, we train. Remember that, yeah, and I thought, man, that's just brilliant Because, to your point, like you were saying, Tiffany, sometimes the conflict could be a gap in training or competency, a gap in understanding, vision. Again, when we're onboarding people, there are gaps in their current understanding. And then what our vision actually is.
Speaker 2:I see it all the time with small group leaders who have these huge, grandiose ideas and they're full and they're awesome and they're exciting, but they just don't fit our method of ministry, the way that our four buckets it's not that they're bad, they just we don't run that playbook. So then I say, okay, well, there's a gap. So okay, so there's a conflict, and you're frustrated because you think we're against what you want, because that's your baby. No, no, no. So one thing I say whenever I do correction 101 is and I learned this from another leader on the team it's you did, we do, so it's okay. Hey, you did this thing or you said this, but here's how we. So I'm inviting them, reminding them hey, you're a part of the family now, you're a part of this church body. That's cultural language. Hey, culturally, here's what we do, but again, a lot of times the hardest conversations have just been around.
Speaker 2:I don't think you really understand our vision. You're not a vision carrier, and that's okay. You're not a culture carrier. So, as a resolution to this conflict, hey, let's have you sit in this seat for a season, serve and grow and mature, or sometimes it's hey, you might have to be removed, or hey. I think you just maybe a quick apology is necessary Because, like you said, you want to move them Ultimately. I look at conflict resolution as encouraging people to follow Christ, whatever that looks like, if it's humbling yourself, if it's being encouraging, if it's being sincere, apologetic, whatever that is learning and growing. I want to resolve the conflict by leading people to be more Christ-like.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean and I think the more confident people are in that, the less those small conflicts arise. If I'm confident who I am in Christ and my identity, I'm not going to be as easily offended. Conflict's not going to. So if you're calling that out in people, when you see that in people and you're calling that out more, then you're going to inevitably have some things, some negative things. But if you're calling that out in people often enough, they're going to be so confident in their identity hopefully that those small things won't offend them. They'll just it'll be feedback.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and again I love again we're keeping it really people focused because again it's people over policy, people over programs. Like the people they are the ends are not the means, and I think part of that is legacy. And like longevity, you hear this term all the time burnout. I know Pastor Mike personally hates that word burnout, but I think there are people that do experience symptoms of burnout or fatigue or exhaustion in their leadership, whether they're leading in the church, outside of the church. So question for the both of you give me one big rock that you have anchored yourself in to keep you having longevity in your leadership and ministry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for me it's been family. So my family dynamics really they have been the gauge for me personally, like my wife and kids. And so the older my kids have gotten, like they're voicing concerns, just like Dad, like you're doing a lot of that and like we want you to spend time, we want you to do this. So that's helped me gauge my wife as all in as she is as well, like she will tell me hey, you do need to spend more time with with us, with the kids. And so there's been seasons. I think for me, a lot of there's been a lot that has picked up for me in this season, um, where I'm finding myself doing a lot more and, uh, you know, even taking work home because there's some things I don't get to do with, wearing different hats now, um, and so my family's really been that gauge. I'll have some friends that they'll just check in on me and things like that, but it's my family because they see it at home and they've been able to really speak into it. And it's funny because between my wife and my son, my oldest son, jordan, they'll be like nope, not right now. And I'm like what are they talking about? Like nope, not right now. I like, nope, not right now. And I'm like, what are they talking about? Like, nope, not right now. I'm like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1:And then later they're like, okay, now, dad, we really need to tell you this. And then they're able to just kind of like, give me some feedback, again confronting it. But then I'm like, what was this all about? Like not right now. And they're like we feel like we know when we can tell you things and when we can't, because I'm still either decompressing in a way, just from work or ministry whatever, and so they just wait for the right time.
Speaker 1:They're like, all right, we can talk to him now, and so these are things that I can just go about my life and not notice, but I'm noticing how they are communicating back, so it's telling me like I go home and the weight that I carry does impact them, and so, but I love that they're not scared to tell me things, because it actually helps me. And I've, I've, I've said this year I want to grow, and this this year, the word for me is, that's been in my spirit is to listen, and not just to listen to God, but to listen to all those around me, my relationships, and listening is not always like audibly it's. You can tell what's happening around your environment, and so I've been very aware of that, and so family's been a big key for me when it comes to any fatigue or exhaustion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're like the barometer, for that that's so good, miss Tiffany, what about you? Give me one big rock that you have found anchored you to having longevity in ministry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's that it's number one, not all on my shoulders, because, one thing, I could be stealing that opportunity from somebody else by saying yes to that thing that I wasn't supposed to say yes to. And number two, it's God's church, it's not my church. I'm not keeping it going, it is not up to me. If it's not me, it could be somebody else.
Speaker 3:So you can sit in the tension of something's not being done if it's not your thing. I mean, of course there are small things you can do even if it's not your calling. But I mean, of course there are small things you can do even if it's not your calling. And you know like, but I mean it used to be that I'd say yes to everything and then you get tired. So I've learned. I do have a thing you know lately, where I don't say no cause I'm scared. Okay, but I will prayerfully say yes to things, because not not every good thing is a God thing and, like I said, not everything is on my shoulders Like God's got this, it's his church, it's not going to fail.
Speaker 3:Because I say no to something to be with my family or, you know, because I'm tired, because I need rest too. You know, so it's just knowing that it is not all on your shoulders. Like it is not, it's not, it's not my church you know, like I love to and I will serve as much as I am able to, but it is not up to me.
Speaker 2:You had to preach. Come on, my Lord.
Speaker 3:I was done.
Speaker 1:She stopped before she saw me reaching. I saw you reaching, she saw me reaching.
Speaker 2:She saw you. You let it to that B3. You have?
Speaker 3:to remind yourself, because it's so easy to just say yes and say yes and say yes and then get exhausted and maybe you're missing out on a different yes. You should have already said yes, because you're taking somebody else's yes.
Speaker 2:Come on somebody, my God, by saying yes to this, you can't say yes to that. By saying yes to that, you can't say yes to this.
Speaker 3:My God yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, my God, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's his plan.
Speaker 2:It's his plan. Hey, that'll preach for real. Yeah, that was good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, say yes, also, never say never.
Speaker 1:Yep, that's right, it's a Justin Bieber song.
Speaker 3:Never say never.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the great prophet.
Speaker 3:JB, you're going to get us into it, the man of God.
Speaker 1:Now I got to edit this podcast, I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sorry for making more work for you, brother.
Speaker 3:No, it's okay.
Speaker 1:We'll leave it in there, no that's great.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, I echo man. That's both of that. That's really good. I'm going to steal from both of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my family definitely is a big barometer. I mean, I made my wife two promises when I got on staff here at LifePoint. What? Four and a half years ago I said number one I'll never sacrifice my family on the altar of ministry. I said I'll never grow without you. I'll never do that. So, yeah, they're the metric. It's Dad. You got to spend more time with Dad. You're grumpy, you're angry, like what's going on? It's like, yep, I'm starting to feel the ministry pressure and let me relieve that pressure in a healthy way. And they're remembering man Jesus. He's the one that said I'll build my church. Yeah, come on, as we are heading into, or as we are in 2025, where do you sense that? Let me ask you, like this what leadership opportunities does the church have for our society, like for the United States, Because that's where we're at what leadership opportunities do you sense that the church can step into based on, like, current events, things that are going on? What leadership opportunity do you think that the church has?
Speaker 1:Like, being president yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, okay, pastor Mike is always on, he's always campaigning. Talking about campaigning? Is that what you're talking about? He says he's got correct views. He has tons of correct opinions.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think I love that we're already doing it, that we've partnered with many great organizations here stateside that have been able to make an impact around the world, convoy of Hope being one of them. We love YAPAC. Sherry Nicholson was on. She was, nicholson was on the podcast a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just sharing the story, her story, the story of YAPAC Just partnering with. Again, clarksville Feeds the World. Yes, it's about to happen, january 25th 25th.
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is much bigger than us. It's not just about LifePoint Church, it's about the kingdom and I love that. As a church, our pastors are real kingdom-minded and it's not so much. A lot of people. When you hear kingdom-minded, you think like, oh, they're all about preaching. It's not just preaching, it's serving the orphans and the widows, and so last year we did a big Christmas event for the widows in our community.
Speaker 1:And I believe this year we're leaning into doing even more for them and so being able to serve those that God's called us to serve, and doing it. So we do Sundays big, like thousands of people, like this last Sunday. We had overflow in multiple services and hundreds of people in the lobby, and so we know people are running to church and we love that.
Speaker 1:And we're going to continue to point them to Jesus, point them into our small groups and freedom groups and discipleship groups. But then there's the thing that those that they're not going to come to church, they're not going to come here for a small group, they're not going to come to church.
Speaker 1:they're not going to come here for a small group, they're not going to come here for on a Sunday. And so how, what do we need to do to reach them and to get out there to them? And so I'm, I'm glad to be part of a church and, um, you know our pastor's leadership when it comes to reaching others. I think that's something that, throughout this year, I know we'll continue to see.
Speaker 2:Amen, Amen. Tiffany. What about you? What are some opportunities you see as a church we can step into or have stepped into?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, I think, all of those that Pastor Elmer mentioned. This world is hungry for Jesus and they don't even know it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They don't even know. That's what everybody's looking for.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I think the further culture shifts from that and the further it shifts to selfishness or, I don't know, the opposite of gratitude. You know just the further it shifts away from Jesus, it's got to swing back. You know, the more you're going to stand out and the more that Jesus in you is going to stand out, and it'll be in ways like I can't think of or imagine, like I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Honestly I can't give you a specific. I think he's gonna do this, but I think, being that outside of the church walls all of the days, being an annoying grocery store princess not that that person necessarily got it, but people are looking for Jesus and they don't even know it. So how can we share him with the world? That is not necessarily going to walk through our doors on a Sunday and I think that when people walk around, you know ready to share the Lord, he's going to give them opportunities and he will give us opportunities as a church to share him to the world because that's his heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's so good. Well, I read an article last week that said Bible sales are up 83%. Yeah, and. I and I thought man and I when I read the article, three things that jumped out. Number one people are looking for purpose, like direction. They're looking for meaning, significance, and then they're looking for identity.
Speaker 2:Like okay, who am I? And not only, but where do I fit in? And you're right, guys. I mean they don't have to come to a physical church, like the building, to find that they can go to God's people, and so I just want to encourage everybody to listen to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, we want to invite people to come to the church, for sure 100%, but also understand, like those that you work with, those that you live in the same neighborhoods, with those in your family, those in your class, those in your communities. They're the ones that are buying those Bibles and they're seeking for the purpose.
Speaker 2:They're seeking for the meaning they're seeking identity and all of that. And I think, to use your word, god has assigned you to be in proximity to them so you can reveal that. To use your word, god has assigned you to be in proximity to them so you can reveal that. I mean, I think about the Ethiopian eunuch, right, he's reading from the scroll of Isaiah and Philip happens to walk alongside him and the Holy Spirit says, hey, go alongside his carriage. And he's going alongside and he says I'm reading, and it will be chapter 51, about the suffering servant. And he's like, okay, I'm confused, is the author talking about himself or someone else? So it's like, okay, I'm confused, is the author talking about himself or someone else?
Speaker 2:So you can see this pagan, this guy who's not a believer, he wants to know more about God. Well, who is he talking about? And Philip tells him, and the guy gets saved and baptized, and then God teleports Philip. It's a weird story, but he's in proximity and I'm telling you, church, you are in proximity to people who are just like the Ethiopian eunuch who is he talking about? They're asking what is this book talking about? Who is this book talking?
Speaker 1:about or the Sentinel with Jesus. Yeah, he just just tell me yes, because I order a bunch of people.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:His level of faith was great, greater Because his circumstance where he worked, his expertise, all of that he understood. He just didn't have language for it. Absolutely, and that revelation sometimes will come through a relationship with somebody else, absolutely, yeah you're right, you can speak, lord, I know about authority.
Speaker 2:And he says, okay, well, he's healed. And there are people I was having a conversation yesterday during the LLA with a young man and he's asking questions about the Holy Spirit and I said, man, you are right in line with it. Well, I just want to confirm, man, yeah, it's confirmed the curiosity that you have, you're right in line. He was speaking truth to a friend and a coworker. But guys like people around you and guess what, god has sent you into their lives to be a leader, to influence them towards Jesus. Well, come on, I towards Jesus, yep, well, come on, I'm enjoying this conversation right here Real quick.
Speaker 1:We'll end with this. Um pastor Willie. Yes sir, if you can go back, yeah, to um 18 year old Willie Simpson jr and give him three leadership principles that would be useful for that young man, yeah.
Speaker 2:What would they be? Number one stay humble. Do not assume you know it all, Like for real, Like you don't know it all. Number two stay curious. Ask tons of questions, Ask tons of questions, Ask tons of questions. And then number three, this is going to be the spiritual one. Number three do not overestimate the value of confession in a community. When you're struggling, reach out Straight up. Those would be the three, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 1:How about you, tiffany?
Speaker 3:Oh gosh, I should have been thinking in my brain I think number one. Your identity is found in Christ. Your identity like that, could be one, two and three. Right Gosh number two. You don't know it all.
Speaker 2:I think the same. Thing.
Speaker 3:Like you are not always right and it's okay to be wrong. Yeah, number three gosh, just lean into God. Don't push him. Don't push him away.
Speaker 2:Don't think that you know he has other things going on because he sees you and he loves you. Yeah, yep, that's good.
Speaker 1:What about you, pastor Elmer? What about me? Oh man, I asked the question.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you had two opportunities.
Speaker 1:No for me. Very similar to you guys. I think for me, the first one will be you're not alone. Just going back to 18-year Elmer you know, just feeling, even being in the church, but feeling alone and the journey a lot of that was because of identity and you don't know who's for you, who's with you.
Speaker 1:You know, but just knowing you know, letting him know that you're not alone, god's with you that, just keep going, I think, would be a second one. Keep moving forward, never give up. And the last one would be, I think, like you guys both said, you're not always right, you don't know everything. I think when you're young and you're even given responsibilities, at whatever level, if it's at work or church or, you know, at home, you take ownership of it and then you think, oh, I know how this works.
Speaker 1:You don't have to tell me how to do it, and so yeah.
Speaker 2:That's great, I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, come on somebody. How about you guys listening? What would you tell us? Like Dora the somebody how about you guys listening? What would you tell us? Like Dora the Explorer how about you? Very good, Very good Muy bueno. Oh man. Now we got video, so you can do a whole video.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you right now I feel my Dura the Explorer praise coming on. Somebody backpack, backpack In Jesus' mighty name, come on somebody, swipe or no swiping my identity. Listen, don't you let the enemy swipe your identity. My God, Don't you let him. You tell him right now.
Speaker 1:Look at the devil in his eye Say swiper, no swiping.
Speaker 2:You can't swipe my joy. You can't swipe my peace, you can't swipe my anointing.
Speaker 1:You look like a televangelist.
Speaker 2:Come on, somebody Look at the camera.
Speaker 1:Oh man, this was fun.
Speaker 2:This was a lot of fun. I enjoyed this man.
Speaker 1:Hey, this is awesome and we're going to do it again next week. Yes or the week before the week after the week after the week after, We'll do the week after. Hey, once again, thank you guys for joining us. It's always a pleasure having Pastor Willie Tiffany, the grocery store princess.
Speaker 2:Yes, I love that.
Speaker 1:And also a shout out to Jacob Green. He's been joining us. Turn that camera on. Yeah, I know right. He's been recording these podcasts for YouTube and we're excited for them to launch on YouTube very soon.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:Yes, let's go. If you have any questions about what we are all about, you can visit LifePointChurchtv. You can also reach out to us via our social media at LifePoint Church or follow our creative social media at LifePoint Creative. We're here to answer any questions you might have. To help you lead you, our small groups launch tonight here at our Rossview campus and we're excited to be a part of that with you. And until next time, peace out.
