The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Real conversations on worship, leadership, and living a faith-filled life beyond the platform. Hosted by leaders from LifePoint Church, this podcast is here to inspire, equip, and challenge you—whether you’re leading in ministry, in the marketplace, or just learning to lead yourself well.
The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Worship That Pleases God
In a world reeling from tragedy, how should Christians respond? This candid conversation with Pastors Mike and Stephanie Burnette tackles the raw emotions and spiritual questions arising from recent national tragedies, including the assassination of Charlie Kirk and recent school shootings.
The pastors unpack Romans 12 as a framework for Christian response—loving genuinely, hating evil, holding fast to good, and remaining patient in tribulation—while acknowledging the legitimacy of our grief and anger.
The conversation moves beyond crisis response to explore worship as a comprehensive lifestyle. "Worship isn't just the first 15 minutes of a church service when we sing," the pastors explain. It's living every aspect of life—finances, parenting, career choices—in a way that honors God. They challenge listeners with a provocative question: Are you living for the applause of people or the approval of God? This examination of motives cuts to the heart of authentic faith.
Join us for this timely, transformative discussion that will equip you to stand firm when everything around you seems to be shaking. Share this episode with someone struggling to process recent events—it might be exactly what they need to hear.
Hey, what's up everybody and welcome to the Worship and Leadership podcast. My name is Elmer Canyas Jr and, like always, my boy, lelisi Simpson in the house.
Speaker 2:What is going on? What's going on, bro Come on somebody.
Speaker 1:Hey, I'm excited today because we have amazing guests in the studio yes, we do.
Speaker 1:We have two luminaries come on and dare I say dignitaries in the studio today with us and it's gonna be amazing, it's gonna be good, and a lot has happened over the past week and actually, as we were recording last week's podcast, there was all these things happening and so we found out a lot about what happened with Charlie Kirk and even the school shooting last week after we were done with the podcast, and so we do want to talk about that today, and, honestly, our topic for today was we had already planned it out but it's worship that pleases the Lord, and not so much worship in the sense of the songs that we sing in church or that we like to jam out in the car, but worship as a lifestyle, and so we're going to talk about that, and we're going to talk with our guests a little more in depth about just the current events that have happened.
Speaker 2:That's right. So we have with us today, ladies and gentlemen, two awesome, amazing people. Here come the words Our lead pastors. So first I want to introduce she is gracious, she is gregarious and she is grinning. Way to go way to go. Y'all give it up for Pastor Stephanie Burnett.
Speaker 3:Wow Okay, thank you.
Speaker 2:Praise the Lord, it's an honor to be here. And I'm telling you right now, like I'm actually quivering in my old navy jeans y'all give it up for the erudite the effervescent and the efficacious Dr. Pastor Michael Burnett. Alright, you said.
Speaker 4:Illuminary, earlier Lumiere is a character in Beauty and the Beast, he's the candle. Michael Burnett, all right, you said Illuminary earlier, I did. Lumiere is a character in Beauty and the Beast. He's the candle. That's exactly right, and he's.
Speaker 2:French and come on. What is that?
Speaker 4:Gracias, de nada Actually the whole story of Beauty and the Beast. Isn't it a French story? Maybe, I think it is rooted in French. That makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's great to I think it is rooted in French. That makes sense.
Speaker 4:Yes, it's great to be with you, Steph. Good to be with you on a podcast together.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's going to be fun.
Speaker 4:We talk a lot, so this is good that we get to do it on a podcast.
Speaker 3:It's official now. Yes, it's on the record now. It's on the record On the record.
Speaker 4:What a time to give some commentary and feedback and leadership to our church. What a time to give some commentary and feedback and leadership to our church, to everybody listening. What a privilege it is to be a part of your lives and I think all of us as a team. We don't ever want to take that for granted, one of the things when times are difficult. You kind of gave an intro to the last week and 9-11, school shooting, the assassination, killing of Charlie Kirk, it was a lot.
Speaker 4:In the middle of that, god's building his church. So we're in Africa doing crazy work for the Lord, dedicating a brand new church building that we built in a village where there's no gospel witness, and the chief of that tribe in the dedication gives his life to Jesus and said I'm going to follow the Lord, get baptized here. And so I was telling our men at Strongman's Night last night that light always overcomes darkness and in the darkest times light will win. But we have to stay faithful to that and patient towards that and just remember that light, like if you're in a dark room and you light a match, everyone's eyes go to that little flame in the middle of darkness. But if you're in a bright room and you knock a light bulb out, nobody's attention is drawn to the darkness, and so I just want to be mindful that, as the believer that we want to grieve more and all those things, but don't forget that the Lord is still at work, light is still winning, gospel is still going forth and, honestly, even with the death of Charlie Kirk, I mean, it is a catalyst for gospel-centered preaching in church growth.
Speaker 4:I think I heard today that this was one of the highest attended Sundays in a very long time this past Sunday, which is an open door for the light to shine in the middle of darkness. And so, yeah, the last week has brought up a lot of thoughts and feelings, and I joked with our men. I said I've had a ton of correct opinions about all this stuff, but our focus needs to remain. I was reading today in prayer that Acts, chapters four and five. When persecution was the highest, they just sought the Lord for more opportunity to preach the gospel, keep the light on full display, because light always overpowers darkness.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, come on, so let me ask the both of you in moments like this, come on, so let me ask the both of you in moments like this how are we able, as the church, to allow our worship to inform our leadership of people, because they're looking for answers. They want to know? Hey, how should I think about this? How should I process this? Help me. So how can we, you know, really capitalize on?
Speaker 4:moments like this for people. Well, you know, I told our team, our guys at our Strong Men's Night which, by the way, if you're a dude listening to this, you're in Clarksville and you need to connect to men in the church. Our Strong Men's Night is unbelievable.
Speaker 4:We have six weeks left for the year, but Tuesday nights six o'clock at our church on the first and third Tuesday of the month, and then every other Tuesday in homes and coffee shops. But anyway, I told the guys, I said, look, I don't need you to think like me and you don't need me to think like you, we need to think like Jesus. And Jesus faced persecution. Jesus faced the gospel excuse me, the New Testament apostles and the disciples of Jesus. They first faced persecution and they kept a center towards the Lord. So I think we pray first, I think we look to the Lord, we look at scripture and we go man.
Speaker 4:This is tragic and there's nothing wrong with hating evil. Murdering someone in broad daylight is evil. Killing someone on a train looking on her phone is pure evil. Walking into a school and shooting students and yourself is pure evil. Just yesterday in Clarksville there was a 48-year-old man who killed his own parents and himself in his house in Clarksville. It is evil, it is anti-God, it's anti-Christ, it's evil. And so what do we do in times of evil? We look to Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith. We seek first the kingdom of God, his righteousness, and we live in a culture that's quick to post and argue and fight and take sides. So I shared with our men and I think it's worth sharing here, and Pastor Darren Niblink out of Phoenix Arizona helped me with this.
Speaker 4:Romans chapter 12 kind of gives a guideline on how to react as spiritual people in hard times. Starting in verse nine he says let love be genuine and then right after that says hate what is evil, hold fast to what is good. That's our posture. We're going to let love be genuine, we love God, we love the church, we love his word, we love lost people, we love the sinner and the saint. We love people, we love God, we love people and we hate what's evil and we hold fast to what's good. So then he says love one another with brotherly affection and outdo one another and showing honor. That is really hard to do when we're caustic and toxic. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But we're going to hold fast to what's good. We're going to hate what's evil. We're going to call it out. I think sin is sin and we need to call it out. And that's where, unapologetically, we should say like this was evil, but we're going to love what's good. And then he says in Romans 12, 12, rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation and be constant in hope or, excuse me, be constant in prayer. So we're going to be hopeful, we're going to be patient and we're going to be prayerful. So I'm hopeful God will get the final answer, God will get the glory, and I'm patient in tribulation.
Speaker 4:This is the more I've studied this out. It's a missing part of just dramatic people when things are hard, we're not patient. When things are tribulating is that the right word, Pastor, Dr Willie when things are tumultuous, we're not patient. We don't like to go through hard. But he says be patient and tribulate. This is the Apostle Paul telling the Romans from. I mean, he's a prison epistle writer, he's been beaten a bunch and he doesn't lash out. He's like be patient in tribulation. How in the world? That doesn't even make sense, because we have a vengeance culture. We have a go, get them. We have a, make an opinion, make a post about it. But be patient, be hopeful, rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation and constant in prayer, and I think the church should be pray first mindset people like all the time, pray first.
Speaker 4:I used to say, and I think I said it recently if you haven't prayed about it, don't post about it. Third thing is pray for excuse me, commit to Christian character In chapter Romans 12, 14,. Bless those who persecute you. Stephanie, I'm so thankful the way you led our church Sunday and you took a moment to pray for the villains. It's one thing to pray for victims, it's another thing to pray for villains the one who took the shot, the one who killed that woman on the train. Bless those who persecute you, don't curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep. That is the extremes.
Speaker 4:Think about this. We can rejoice and weep in the same sentence. There's not a period, there's a comma between the two. In pastoring, I mean, I've literally left one floor of a hospital while someone's being pulled off a life support and gone to another floor where a baby's being born. We live in the tension between the two and so we rejoice and weep and look if you're weeping. I'm weeping with you.
Speaker 4:Recently I heard of a friend in ministry that lost his ministry because of moral failure, and one of my best friends is super connected to him and I just my immediate response to him is how are you doing? How can I start? What are you? He's broken man, he's heartbroken. And so I adjusted my schedule to go spend some time and sit with him and just we cried together, we prayed together, because we're going to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice.
Speaker 4:He says live in harmony, don't be arrogant, associate with the lowly, never be wise in your own sight. And honestly, it's really tempting to say I've got the definitive word. I know what to say that'll solve all this stuff. I don't know. I think I told Stephanie privately. I said I'm not called a pastor of the internet. I'm not assigned by God to pastor the whole country. Our responsibility is LifePoint. We're going to prepare statements, we're going to prepare our sentiments for our church that God has called us to. And don't be arrogant in your own, don't be haughty and don't be wise in your own sight. So we love well, we pray for healing and revival, we commit to Christian character and then we fight the right fights. It's spiritual, like if you have a different opinion about things, I mean, you're not my enemy, the devil's our enemy. Let's just be really clear. That's right. I think this is good marriage advice. Like Stephanie and I, we've we've had three fights in our whole marriage.
Speaker 3:Three.
Speaker 4:Did I say 3000?
Speaker 2:I thought I said 3000.
Speaker 4:He left a couple of zeros, so anyway there have been times where both of us have been hot and, you know, heated up in the moment and one of us will say to the other you're usually it's her with the more spiritual tone. She'll say I'm not your problem, I'm not your enemy. The devil is our enemy. We need to pray together and I'm the one that's like I don't want to pray, I want to win, you know.
Speaker 4:But it is true, like she's not my problem, I'm not her problem. There's an adversary of the devil who prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Devil tries to get to work, is dividing families and you know, families and friends and churches, and we're seeing that right now.
Speaker 4:I mean church folks attacking church folks on how they act and behave. And I just go. We're going to fight the right fights. The church ain't my problem, other pastors saying or not saying things is not my problem. The enemy is the devil and we have authority over the devil. Jesus said it all authority is mine. Therefore you go in my authority. He said we have authority to turn upon serpents and scorpions, over all the power of the enemy. I don't have to be discouraged, I don't have to be dismayed. Fear not 365 times. You quoted that in the scripture this Sunday, stephanie. There's just my enemy is the devil. He's the enemy of the soul of the people, he's the enemy of the souls of the church, the enemy of the souls of the nation. And so I say we fight, right fight. So we're going to pray, we're going to love God, love people, commit to Christian character and fight the right fight.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And it's a spiritual battle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think when you zoom out and it's so easy to get in the fray and everything that's happening right now, we want to get in the weeds and we all have opinions and having an opinion is not bad, I do want to say that. But as Christians, the word has to be our go-to, not social media, not the news. I mean, man, you could just leave it on all day. I love researching all the things and hearing the stats and the numbers and who's saying what? I want to know that stuff. I think we're kind of built that way. But that's where we pull back first. That was the first point I made. Sunday. We pull back and we get in God's word, god's presence, and I just Ephesians 6, if you don't know, this passage just needs to be like kind of the ammo in your weapon, because you're going to need this.
Speaker 3:Ephesians 6, 10,. Finally, be strong in the Lord and the strength of his might put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. Here it is verse 12. You need to know this verse, for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood. That's what Pastor Mike was just saying. It's not humans we're wrestling against, but against the rulers, authorities, the cosmic powers over this present darkness. We're still living in an era because Christ hasn't returned yet. We're still living in an era, because Christ hasn't returned yet, that this is allowed to happen over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.
Speaker 3:And then he goes on to say, therefore, life is not just flesh and blood, it's not just what we see with our physical eyes, it's what we know is true from the scripture, and there's the whole spiritual realm that exists and we can't forget that. So I just that's the most important thing is that we lay the groundwork that this is every bit of our lives we're made of. As a human, we are body, soul and spirit, and most people say body first, soul and then spirit. But we were doing a small group once where I think it was Pastor Chris Hodges had talked about it's actually spirit first, it's all spiritual right, and then the body or soul is in there, and then you're physical, because your physical body, even though we all pass away one day, our spirit lives on forever.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Our soul and our spirit go to be with the Lord. So I kind of like the way we reoriented that, that we're all spirit, then we're soul and then the physical body. But anyways, I say that to all to say like, like we, we need to be reminded that it's all spiritual. Now, do we live in a world where we have to like get up, we go to work, there's logistics, yes, there is flesh and blood, things that we deal with. I've got the flu, I don't feel good, whatever's going on in our life. So that's where we just get. It's like okay, especially when we start feeling some way. So our souls this past week have been very much affected with what's been going on and many people they're saying thinking, because our souls are our mind, will and emotions right.
Speaker 3:It's our decision-making part of who we are. So people this past week it's been one week ago today actually have been sharing what's going on in their heart and their soul, like we're seeing that online, but that's where we go, but the spiritual is the most real part of what's happening, so we have to zoom out. And then there's the physical body as well. So that's the most important groundwork. And then I also wanted to add, mike, you were talking about I'm angry. I'm angry because we were talking about the way we're all feeling. I think every feeling has been there, like I feel unsettled, I feel unstable what's happening, and I think it's okay that we take a minute to grieve.
Speaker 3:It's okay to be angry. You know, who was also angry was Jesus. It was a holy anger. He didn't allow his anger to ever take him to sin. He lived a sinless life, but he allowed that anger to move him to do something productive for the kingdom. And so I think, in all of our emotions, I just agree with what you said, mike. Like, how do we respond? I don't think it's bad to feel. I just I want to say that to everyone listening Because maybe I'm wired that way, like, because maybe I'm wired that way, like, okay, I can't feel bad, I'm not gonna feel bad, I'm gonna hold it together, I've got it together. You know, especially as a leader, sometimes you're like I can't, it's okay, it's okay to feel.
Speaker 3:Last week was hard in our house. Mike shared like he was saying you know, he was traveling and doing ministry literally on the other side of the world and I'm just going, okay, lord, you are going to be my strength right now. Like trying to feel, like okay, as our, as our, our teams, our church, like the people we're shepherding, like how are they? You know we're, I'm, I'm feeling all the emotions, you know, but the Lord is right there with us to strengthen us, lead us, guide us. So we're going to take all of our emotion to the Lord first.
Speaker 3:So I'm just kind of adding onto what you said. You know, instead of posting first, instead of putting out there for the public, take it to the Lord first, because he can actually help reshape some of our thoughts and feelings when we come to the scriptures first. So I think that's really important just in some of the things that we've been feeling this week. But it's not, it's not bad to have feelings, but let's take it to God's word and let's let him correct how we're feeling, because sometimes we do have anger that feels not very righteous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, can I be honest? Yes, you're right.
Speaker 3:Like, if I could, I wouldn't know. Wait, let me take a step back. How does God want me to deal with this? And I have to say you know some of the people that perhaps said just awful things, even to Charlie Kirk. You know the way he would respond to people was never to retaliate but to listen and have a conversation, and many times I would hear him even ask people to consider the Lord in the midst of their hate, hatred and anger, it's like. But let me tell you about a God who loves you, and so I think it's just a reminder that in our anger I don't know I found that inspirational this past week that we're going to love the very people that maybe we're frustrated with or maybe we have bad feelings towards and we go. I'm going to respond to that. How would Jesus respond to those people? That's a greater question.
Speaker 4:How would?
Speaker 3:Jesus respond to those people? That's a greater question. How would Jesus respond to those people? Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2:So as you were talking, Pastor Stephanie, about broken spirit, contrite heart, thinking through Psalm 51, verse 17, the sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. Oh God, you will not despise. So how I mean? I just that you know we think about sacrifices and we're new covenant people. So Jesus Christ was the last and final sacrifice, but we are living sacrifices. So how can the urgency of moments like these produce that brokenness that we can bring to the Lord, that informs our worship as a lifestyle?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I remember during COVID-19, the pandemic in 2020, as it launched out, I met with a pastor, kevin Queen, at Crosspoint Church in Nashville, and we met for coffee and I was just checking on him. I thought I was doing a service to him, you know, and I was like, brother, I'm just here to check on you, how are you doing? He's like I'm great, what are you talking about? And I had lived through quarantine and I was 15 days in my basement. I mean, I think it stressed me out and it wore me out and all this. So then, once I'm out of my prison cell, my wife, feeding me a bunch of celery, lost a lot of weight in two weeks. Anyway, I'm out and I'm checking on pastors and church members and friends, on our staff, et cetera.
Speaker 4:And he just very casually said I'm great man, nothing's changed for me. I said what do you mean? Nothing's changed. The world has changed. Our churches are empty. And he said yeah, but I spend my time in the Lord in my prayer closet every day and that has not changed. One time he said every single day. I spend three hours with the Lord every morning and I come out and, no matter what I have to face, I walk in the peace of God. I'll be honest, I mean he took me to school that day.
Speaker 4:I thought that is such a great perspective, because that keeps us tethered, that no matter what's happening. It's Romans 12. I am not being transformed by the patterns of this world or the issues of this world, but I'm being renewed every day by my time with God. I'm surrendered, I'm submitted, and then Paul goes on to say this is your spiritual act of worship, your life of worship. Your act of worship is to make him the highest affection, make him worthy, make him the center point of your praise and, no matter what happens in the world, you're tethered to him. That's worship, that's commitment and connection to the Lord, and it keeps your heart contrite, keeps your heart low before the Lord and tethered to him, which, by the way, none of the things that surprise us surprise him.
Speaker 4:So if we know that we're seeking first the kingdom, and that's just our rhythm, very often we get into the seek first the kingdom because of trials. But if we just live that way, then trials don't really. I mean, that might be a bump in the road, but they don't. They don't, they don't pull you away from the things of God. I'll tell you, one of the the most grievous things about seasons like we're living in is people that reject or feel like they want to walk away from their faith because of things like this, or or walk away from their faith because some people didn't react appropriately or whatever. I just go, man, if you're, if you're walking with the Lord every day, seeking first the kingdom of God. Man, nothing should distract that, nothing should dissuade that. Right. But it's distance from the Lord, it's a lack of intimacy with God over time that when tragedies come, you start. You're just vulnerable to the enemy to just pick you off and pluck you out of his family.
Speaker 3:I actually think this tragedy has had the opposite effect. I actually think this tragedy has had the opposite effect so many people feeling a sense of urgency with their faith.
Speaker 4:Sure.
Speaker 3:And the way I read this verse Psalm 51, 17,. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and contrite heart. The thing that jumps out to me there, this theme, is authenticity before the Lord, because if you're broken before someone, you just feel like it's raw, it's honest and that's really what God wants from all of us. It's just an authentic like Lord. This is me. That's why I feel like even in these moments, we can share really Lord. This is how I'm feeling. You know, this is what I'm going through and it says God won't despise that. In fact, it draws us closer to him. So I don't know. I think drawing near to him during this time is actually what's been happening as a result of this tragedy.
Speaker 3:There's been so many people. They're feeling an urgency and excitement about their faith, almost an awakening that's a word I've heard several times this past week an awakening in their faith and it's actually been very powerful to watch. You're talking about attendance on Sunday for a non-Easter, like a non-special service. People, I think, desiring like I want to be bold in my faith, I want to be courageous in the way I'm serving the Lord and I don't want to hold back anymore. I don't want to be afraid of the critics. I don't want to be afraid of others critics, I don't want to be afraid of others, and so seeing people come out, it's just, it's, it's been incredible.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a response. People are definitely having to, specifically the death of Charlie Kirk. However, in addition to, I mean, with multiple school shootings and other tragedies, some people are saying, man, I don't know where's God in all of this. That's the point I was trying to make, not just the Charlie Kirk assassination, but it gets so heavy. You know, it's so much tragedy right now. I just remember feeling like 2020 was this way. It's like one thing after another, after another, after another, boom, boom, boom and they just were stacking up. And, as a pastor, we're trying to remind people that the Lord's not surprised by any of this stuff. God wasn't one morning where he woke up and said now what happened, because he knows the beginning from the end, and some things are pushing people to the Lord Absolutely, and I'm so thankful for that. Other things are challenging people. I mean school shootings at a Catholic private school. People are asking where's the Lord?
Speaker 4:in that, you know I mean, that was the point I was trying to make. But in the bigger pictures, if we're consistently walking with the Lord and we have that that's what Kevin Queen taught me he's like man, no matter what happens my time with God is my priority and he, he, helps me walk through all these things.
Speaker 4:We're in a tidal wave right now. The analogy I've used before with our team tidal waves hit a shoreline and devastated, but every single shoreline ultimately recedes back to normal and there will be a day that life feels normal again. I mean, 9-11 was a massive tidal wave, right? Y'all remember where you were. We're a week out of that celebration. I remember where I was. I was in a staff meeting at my first church job as a part-time choir director in Knoxville and I had my little flip phone clip to my belt. Come on.
Speaker 1:Not even in my pocket.
Speaker 4:Those were the days. Yes, he was official, had it in a leather case that you can had a, had a little plastic window so you can see.
Speaker 2:Come on, you can see the time he got a staff text message coming through Anyway, everybody's phone and staff meetings blowing up.
Speaker 4:There was no social media, there was no texting at this time and staff member's daughter comes in and they phoned a plane into the Twin Towers as we were watching it. Another plane flew in. I mean, we put on. We had like a 12-inch black and white TV in the office. We turned on to watch this. I mean it was crazy times right and that felt like a long-lasting tsunami. Weeks and weeks of just like you know, tsa shut the government's tracking. It's a big deal. Biggest assault on our nation, they said since Pearl Harbor. And now it's a celebration once a year, it's a reminder and for some people it's Honoring Memorial.
Speaker 4:But the tidal wave, my point is, has receded and it's just normal waves hitting the shoreline, to use that analogy, and we're in a tidal wave right now of just a stack of things. And my point in what I was saying earlier is our response has to be spiritual first, and I'm angry about the stuff. I hate what I've seen. I grieve. I mean that video is all over the internet and I texted my daughters do not look this up, Do not, Because it's out there, and I know that's traumatic. It was traumatic for me to watch that, and so I mean Irina Zarutska, I think is how you say her name her killing was on the internet. It's crazy. We're just not built to see that stuff. There's just a tidal wave of things right now.
Speaker 4:But I just want to remind people like your devotion to the Lord, your consistency with the Lord, and if you'll lose that, if you get out of rhythm with God or if you get, you know your rhythm is really you're spending more time in your prayer closet on national news and social media than with the Lord and his word Then when a tsunami comes, man, you will be a casualty of it if you're not careful. And that's kind of the big picture that I was trying to say earlier is I want us to stay tethered to the Lord, centered on him. We're gonna love, we're gonna pray, we're gonna be kingdom people, be emotional, hate what's evil, love what's good, hold fast to what's genuine. All of those things, because this too will pass. And we've still got a church to pastor next week and we've got families to care for this week and I got to take my daughter to a volleyball game next week. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4:Like it's life continues, and there's a text one of the passages talks about, like, enduring this. Actually, in the passage for Sunday it talks about it as well, and in revelation, chapter two, that those who conquer this like and just stand with the Lord. There's a reward on the other side of this, and that's what I want for our people. I want you to weather this grieve, it, be angry about it and and get through it and stand on the other side of the victory in.
Speaker 1:Don't sacrifice your character, your witness or the gospel because you didn't react well to these times. And in our lifestyle of worship we have to be able to see these events that happen in normal day life. A lot of these things happen every day, and now, just with media and social media, they're just magnified even more. But to your point, pastor Mike, that when we're living close to the Lord, our perspective is different, our response is different. We don't react out of the emotions that we feel, but but we're able to filter everything through the holy spirit. You know just. John 12 yeah, abide in me.
Speaker 2:14 uh, john 15, 15 yeah, 14, 15, um.
Speaker 4:That's why he's like someone in the book of john. There you go in the john 15.
Speaker 1:Abide in me and I'll be right and just abiding, remaining in him, and then the fruit. That's why he's like you go in the book of John.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go In the book of John, john 15, abide in me and I'll abide in you, and just abiding, remaining in him, and then the fruit of you know how we responded. All that's based on where we're founded. Yeah, and so that's, that's the importance, as, as believers, of us word. You know you were talking about being in scripture and then, as we're leading other people, you know, in this moment it's we've, we've seen a lot of people hungry for Jesus. There's this hunger, people that were just playing church, like they're realizing, hey, no, this is a real thing.
Speaker 1:I've heard personal stories from friends where people that you know were completely against Christianity, you know of different communities, are like hey, you know what? I've never liked Christians, but I'm curious about God and so, just yeah, tragedies do stir things up in people and so, and we don't know how people are going to react, and that's where, as Christians, as believers, you know, when we're founded on in Christ, the solid rock it, it allows us to, in these moments that are tidal waves, to be able to lead others. And you know, and like we here at the church, we believe to lead, we want to lead people to become fully devoted followers of jesus christ. But if we're in turmoil, if we're distraught, if we're, if we're caught in that wave and being tossed to and fro, then it becomes real difficult to really be a light to others that are hurting and angry and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:Right, pastor Mike, you had you said earlier and you've made this statement dozens of times that you know nothing that takes place takes God by surprise. But you've also said that, hey guys, this has been going on since the beginning of creation.
Speaker 2:Like like every, every present generation feels like it's unprecedented. And just, you know, as a teaser to your message this Sunday, you know we're in a seven-week series. In the book of Revelation, jesus' letters through the Apostle John to the church is in Asia Minor and Pergamum, you know, I mean you think about Pergamum, where Jesus says hey, I know that you are literally camped around Satan's throne, like you're in this city that is colloquially called Satan's throne because of what's taking place. And you have to imagine, you have to think that if you are living there present day Asia Minor or present day Turkey, you're living there in Asia Minor and what's going on. You're like man, this is unprecedented.
Speaker 2:I don't know how we're going to get through this and Jesus does such an amazing job of leading the church there, the Christians there, through that. And I don't want to give too much, but I'm just so excited about this message because it's so relevant and timely. So how can we take that encouragement from Jesus to the church at Pergamum when he says you know, first of all repent. He who has ear let him hear. The one who conquers, I'll give him hidden manna and a white stone, but he starts with repenting.
Speaker 2:And what does he call them to repent from and of?
Speaker 4:Yeah, we always repent from the flesh and we always repent from sin, right, so anything outside of the will of God, anything outside of God's word, we just need to be willing to say, hey, no matter who. I know I've got a family member who, or this is how I'm wired or born, or this is what I feel I'm going to turn from and to. I'm going to turn from my sin, from my flesh, from my impulses, my predispositions, and I'm going to turn to the Lord. That is the constant life of the believer and that's the desire of God for everybody on the planet to repent and to turn to him. And so what I love about these seven letters is every one of them has that call Like here's my thing for you, repent, turn to me. Repentance is actually not hard, but it's difficult. Like it's so simple, it's costly. Yeah, the difficulty is what does it cost you? Your habits, your freedoms, your relationships, your desires? Yeah, all of those things. It ain't hard, Like the concept. The walking it out is very difficult, but the reward is please the.
Speaker 4:Lord walk with Jesus. I would give up anything in the world to have more intimacy with the Lord Jesus. And so yeah, and Pergamum, he calls where you're living. He said you are dwelling in Satan's throne. That's a bold statement, and you know who I thought of is my friend, or well, he's not my friend, but a guy that I admire, that pastors in Seattle Washington, russell Johnson, I mean they are literally trying to kill them for doing church, like they're assaulting, they're throwing cups of urine on preachers or worship leaders out in the park. I mean they're doing all kinds of craziness and they're just with joy going. I can't believe we get to do ministry here.
Speaker 4:Thinking about where we were this week in Africa I haven't even told you this, but there's like real spiritual warfare and opposition in the body of Christ against the body of Christ, especially in places of real darkness. So where we were in Tanzania, the tribalism religion is ancestry worship and it's very demonic. I mean honestly and people always think that word is so tough like it's offensive but if it ain't holy, spiritual, then it is anti-spirit and it's demonic in's rude right. So ancestry worship, pagan practices, et cetera, initiation rituals into manhood, all that kind of stuff. And we planted a church in the middle of a village, a hundred percent Maasai tribe and no gospel witness. Until we built this church and two churches have come in there and failed. They're literally padlocked and closed. And then we built a new one.
Speaker 4:And I'm actually asking them to give us those buildings too, because I said we got ministry, we're going to grow, we're going to outgrow this, we're going to have a lobby campus. Then we're going to need those buildings. And they're like what are you talking about? I was like, just wait, it's going to. You know, just God. God wants to grow his church. So then Sunday I was preaching, I preached, we had a little break and then we did a pastor's leadership summit to help all these pastors grow and expand their ministry and I'd had a great time in terms of health and energy and literally I preached from eight to you know the eight o'clock service, then we had a break and then at 10 o'clock we start this pastor's council, this summit, and 50 or 60 pastors from tribes I mean one guy literally is having a growing church plant under a tree. They sit on sticks and they sit on rocks and they stand under a tree in the shade and it's growing. People are getting saved every single week. The kingdom of God is advancing right.
Speaker 4:So I stand up to talk about just church growth strategies and giving this talk on God will grow what's anointed and how to grow in your own anointing so God can grow what you're doing under his anointing, that whole talk that I've been sharing with our team and how God wants to grow your church. But you have to be grounded in his anointing and preparing for that and my physical body I thought I was either going to throw up or have like diarrhea while standing there. No, no joke, like you know that feeling when your body gets the chills and the sweat and everything. And I'm speaking with an interpreter, so I would speak and then he would translate.
Speaker 4:I would speak and he'd translate and in the process of him translating, at one time a time I looked at my buddy, cleve, and I said I need water, cause I thought I was going to throw up or pass out. And then I'm speaking, I can't stop because there's all these guys leaning in and taking notes and I'm trying to help them grow the churches, advance the kingdom. And I came under such intense spiritual attack and then I was like, well, maybe I was just food poisoning, maybe I'm sick in my brain while I'm speaking, waiting on interpreter all these things going through my mind and then I go Lord, I need your presence right now.
Speaker 4:I need you to heal me and touch me and I rebuke the devil while he's translating. I'm saying all this in prayer and I'm like speak, speak, translate prayer, speak, translate prayer. And within two minutes it was completely gone. I've had no issue since, but I'm just telling you there is. I didn't like come back up an hour later, I didn't like subside it, just gone, no issues at all, and I really felt, like the Lord said, there's a spiritual attack on what's happening, because light is pressing into darkness and there's so much there and I think we just have to be aware of that, we have to be ready and prepared for that and take authority over it. Like, listen, the devil is a defeated enemy. So you know, a lot of times I think Tom and Jerry, theology has taught us that that's a cartoon reference that the devil and an angel of light are these co, equal, eternal combatants and it's the devil versus God and honestly, carmen didn't help us. You know Jesus and the devil fighting the champion.
Speaker 2:Now, that's OG right there Circa 1984.
Speaker 4:The devil is not a co-equal opposite of the Lord.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:It's not yin versus yang, positive versus negative, it's not electrons and neutrons or protons. God is God over all and the devil is defeated. Waiting his ultimate defeat, waiting his. He's awaiting his eternal damnation in that lake of fire. But in between his defeat and his awaiting his damnation he is on full frontal attack against the body. But we already have victory. We have nothing to fear, there's nothing to be afraid of.
Speaker 4:And yet I think a lot of times we just get so anxious about some of the spiritual warfare stuff and we just have to remember that we have authority as a believer, walking authority. Command your victory, believe your victory. And it's not because of you, it's because of Jesus. I couldn't make myself feel better when I was preaching that message, but I prayed and I literally rebuked the devil in one of my prayers, saying I take authority over you. Right now I'm healed. And then I'm talking you know, waiting on translation and then I pray and there's victory there and we have to remember that. But there there is spiritual attack over saying truth and doing right things for the kingdom of God.
Speaker 3:Is what I'm saying making sense yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I actually, the last time I preached, when I closing out the forgotten virtues on gratitude, there was one of the services where I was probably into my first point and I just had to stop and and I'm aware people are watching me and you know, and this, this might get on YouTube and all that but I started getting distracted, like there was just these thoughts that just kept coming and I just said I said, excuse me, I need to pray and I prayed like a mid-sermon and like just, god, bring clarity.
Speaker 1:And and I don't know what that was, but I understand spiritual warfare and I didn't think about it at the moment, but I'm like what's going on? But it felt like I had to be obedient to the Holy Spirit and it's like, hey, you need to pray right now and you just pray that's good.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that. That God is that I love the tidal wave. I'm going to plagiarize that.
Speaker 4:That's really good the tidal wave analogy actually, if you, that's good Actually if you don't mind, I've copywritten it, so you can't plagiarize it, but you can pay me for it. So just boxes candy bars or something Protein bars, That'd be great. All statements that have been made on this podcast are intellectual property of Cousin Willie.
Speaker 2:Enterprises. So, pastor Stephanie, just like Pastor Mike, you have a very strong desire through the teaching of God's word not just the preaching, but the teaching of God's word to disciple people. And so when we think about worship, it's this allegiance that we are giving to someone else. Like we're saying, hey, I'm worshiping, I am giving allegiance, I'm giving the leadership to you. And that's the issue there in Pergamum that Jesus has against the church of Pergamum, he says, hey, you're allowing people to teach things that are antithetical to the kingdom. So so, again, fast forward to today. The responses that people have are to me, signifying what or who they worship.
Speaker 3:So can you just speak to the importance of that? Because worship is how we live. Right, I teach this in Growth Track, step One. I say it's actually on the tithing page when we talk about finances. The bottom it says bringing our tithe to the Lord is not a business transaction. It's an expression of gratitude and one of the ways that we worship God, you know. So I tell them, worship is not the first 15 minutes of the service where we sing and clap. That's one way we can express our worship to the Lord. But I know that was kind of the heart of the podcast today was worship. So worship is how we live our lives and specifically in scripture talks about living our lives sacrificially unto the Lord. So that permeates every part of our life. What part of our life am I not worshiping him, you know? And so I forget the original question that you asked about worship. I got so excited to talk about the way we live.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just along that same line of answering Again it's worship, it's our whole life. So what part of my life is not surrendered?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And let me just say this, because the way that people are responding you can just tell it. The way that people are responding, you can just tell it's their political leanings, it's family of origin, it's ethnicity, it's class, it's networks, it's pundits, it's platforms, because they're parroting what they're hearing or they're propagating or promulgating what they're hearing. It's like, wait a minute, this is a vocab workout right here.
Speaker 3:Praise the Lord, I like it.
Speaker 4:Pundits propagating, promulgating. Come on now.
Speaker 2:Participating and they're pernicious in their pontifications. Anyway but it really is a heart issue. It's like out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth is speaking. So the question is who are you?
Speaker 3:worshiping Our life is fruit of what happens on the inside. We think it's just what we say, but it's actually how we live, because words fall short. They're empty. Anybody can say anything, but don't tell me something. I'm going to see how you live, because that's what Jesus said If you love me, you'll obey me. And so how we live is sharing Christ with our world, and so that's why I think, especially with social media getting on there, it's just. It's a lot of words and I get it. It's coming from the heart of people, but like the people you live with the people in your house, the people in your church, your coworkers, your neighbors. That's real life. Those are the people you're doing life with. That we want to reach yes, we can reach people for Jesus on the internet and all those spaces, but living our life is how we're going to win this world to Jesus, and that really is what worship is all about. I don't know if there was a question you were going to ask. I'm going to create a question.
Speaker 2:Go ahead. Can I create a question, please do.
Speaker 3:I think it was on the agenda but something about, like the applause of man Are we living our lives for man or are we living our lives for the Lord? Or in the opposite way, like are we? Are we living in a way that we're just not confident at all and we feel like we're just down on ourselves for everything. And I wanted to share something. Actually, I brought a book. My friend, dolly Thomas, wrote this book called the Storm Whisperer and it's a fantastic book. It's called Letting Jesus Calm your Troubled Mind and Lead you to Mental Wellness. I'm going to highlight this book because she takes the book of John. You have to read one chapter of John before you read chapter one in this book, and then chapter two of John and then this chapter two etc.
Speaker 3:So it parallels. But anyways, we're just talking about how we live our lives. Worship, who are we living for? Why do we live the way we live? And she says here on page 74, she says but God has taught me over the years that to live for man's well done that's an italicized man's well done jeopardizes the father's well done, good and faithful servant.
Speaker 3:Galatians 1.10 says am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? If I'm trying to please people, I am not a servant of Christ. She says that's about as clear as you can get. You can't do both live to please God and people. So if we're a follower of Jesus, we just have to know, like my audience can never be man. And that goes both ways for the critics and the applause. Because if it's, if it's the applause, then we, we kind of like that part of it and so we live in a certain way just to get more accolade. You know, like I kind of like this no, stop, okay, come on. You know I need the applause, you know. And then the other way, like if, if we're overwhelmed by critics and we feel paralyzed, we can't do anything or say anything, we're not going to speak the truth, because what are the critics going to say and do? That's not healthy either. We're still thinking of other people. Both situations are trying to please other people. So I just think it's important that we're going to keep our hearts focused on the Lord.
Speaker 3:She says on page 75, there's a divine reason for why we exist. Giving our worship to and serving the Lord is what gives us value and lasts for eternity. So no accomplishment, no title, no thing that we acquire here on earth will ever determine our worth, and so I know the root word of worship is actually worth ship. That's right. And so when we understand that we're living our lives for the Lord, it really does change our perspective. Use that word, pastor Elmer perspective.
Speaker 3:What is our perspective? And when we get in the fray and when we get focused on mankind, we get what our perspective is way off. We lose what's important. We're just trying to live for other people or we're scared of other people. I mean, it's people, people, people. But when you get in God's presence, man, all you can think about is I really don't care what anyone else says. I don't care if there's applause and they're like hey, great job, and I don't care if they're like that's terrible, you're, you're. You know there's critics, we're just going to follow the Lord and then there that comes with pleasing my heavenly father well done, good and faithful servant. That's what I want to hear from him. I mean, it's nice to hear it from other people, but that's not. That's not what determines, like defines, who we are.
Speaker 4:That's really great. I think, in ministry too, I want to encourage if there's a pastor listening, you work for God and you lead the people. You don't work for the people and try to lead God. And honestly, I think that's where denominationalism has kind of lost its way, like we started somehow like following the people and trying to lead God to them and we work for God and everybody. Hey, I don't care if you're a school teacher, a principal, you're a police officer, it doesn't matter If you're a Christian, you work for and you serve the Lord.
Speaker 4:You please the Lord, you serve him, you follow him, you obey him, and then you lead people.
Speaker 3:Do not follow the hearts of people, because the heart of man is wicked right.
Speaker 4:It is not our North Star, the word of God the.
Speaker 4:Lord himself, jesus as King. That's our North Star. And then we lead people to that Discipleship. Ultimately is one disciple telling another disciple how to follow Christ. It's Ronnie Culberson. My first staff guy I worked with in Knoxville said the job of ministry is simply one hungry person telling the other hungry person where I found bread. And that's what we do. That's, that's our life. So we live for the Lord. That that's a life of worship. Man, he is the most. He is worthy of it all. He's on full display in my finances, my calendar, my parenting, my husbanding, my marriage, in my career. He is worthy of it all and I do everything in a way that pleases him. I quote my favorite scripture all the time. Now that I'm in front of you, I can say it to your face, but I joke. It's my tattoo scripture and I told Stephanie I wanted to get it tattooed on me. She said your body's perfect you don't need a tattoo.
Speaker 4:You remember that Totally. Yeah, see, thank you, good job. Praise the.
Speaker 4:Lord Philippians 127 says whatever happens, live your life in a way that honors the gospel. That's worship, that's a lifestyle of worship. And it's kind of funny. I was kind of convicted about this recently. I'm a musician, I have a background in music and I kind of forget that part of my life and I'm not. I'm finding myself more pensive and quiet in sets of worship, like in a worship service. I'll be the guy with my hands up and just humming along or praying in the spirit or not singing really robustly. And I was kind of convicted here recently, like why don't I sing more? You know, because that's that used to be what ministry was for me. But sing more, you know, because that's that used to be what ministry was for me. But I think worship is just so much more than that. And I don't know, maybe I'm getting old and I feel like my voice is getting wobbly or something.
Speaker 1:I don't know, insecure Wobbly.
Speaker 4:Wobbly.
Speaker 2:Oh, there you go Like old Deacon right there but that verse, man Philippians 127,.
Speaker 4:Whatever happens, live in a way that honors the gospel.
Speaker 3:It's a life of worship.
Speaker 4:It doesn't honor you, it doesn't honor others, it doesn't put me first it doesn't put my politics first, it doesn't put culture first, it puts Jesus first and it's actually a liberating way to live right and I don't feel the pressure of what everyone else says yeah, I'm not in charge. It's the Lord who's in charge of me. But it's a hard world. I think one of the difficulties of the world we're in is everyone now has a voice.
Speaker 1:I was about to say that you go back 10 years ago, when Instagram, Twitter and Facebook were just on the scene, or about 15 years now. Images. People idolized the image. Self-image Selfies were the thing right.
Speaker 4:Instagram started out as a photo app. That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Videos, only photos, all photos so like the image was the thing like and, and you'd hear sermons in church like don't idolize. You know your image and and, but now I did a series called deny your selfie.
Speaker 4:There you go. Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 1:Yep, selfies are a thing 2013, but but we've gone from idolizing selfies to now idolizing opinions, and, and I think I think our, our world, if you're not careful to, will influence you. You know all of us. If you're on social media, because now you're scrolling through so, so much information and it's opinions of other people that are influencing and, in many ways, educating. You know people that aren't really going into scripture and you know, and so if you don't put the intentional effort into I need to learn what the truth is, I need to be in a healthy church, I need to be in a small group, I need to be in a community of believers, then the world will teach you what it has to say, and it's going to be through people's opinions versus the truth.
Speaker 1:You know that we find in scripture and so, yeah, culture has shifted a lot. It's not so much the self image, but now it's it's opinions, and which has caused a lot of stir lately. And when it comes to worship, like I even think we struggle verbalizing words, because now, if we don't agree with words, and now that's that's the battle on social media right now with pastors and worship leaders oh, I don't like what you're saying, I don't like this and that and and now and now, like I think there's this struggle even within songs in church, because and it's always been there I've always been cautious of what type of songs are we putting in front of our church and what words are we putting in there, you know, on their lips, because they're just a lot of people are just reading words off the screen and things like that. So I've always been cautious of that. But now it's actually become a big debate online where, where people are starting to vocalize that and and now you know words that have become the new war.
Speaker 1:What are you saying? What do you? What are you trying to say?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, so along that we should write a worship song with just crazy lyrics and just see how long it takes people to revolt.
Speaker 2:Fluffy teddy bears no, like Inflated balloons.
Speaker 4:See how long it takes people to revolt and go wait a minute. I'm saying what? Now In church, right, because I think you're right, we do just read the lyrics on a screen or in the hymnal or whatever. We just we trust that it's published.
Speaker 1:So it must be right.
Speaker 4:There are songs that I've said we're not singing. In our church, years ago, there was a song that said it was a quote from Job 121, where he says the Lord gives and the Lord takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. And I just remember saying we're not singing that song because it's taken out of context jam.
Speaker 2:It was the bridge you give and take away and I was like uh-uh, I said we're not singing that song.
Speaker 4:First of all, in context, job, it was the devil who took from him, and what he was acknowledging is the sovereignty of God, of God's allowance, but the Lord did not take from Job.
Speaker 2:The devil did.
Speaker 4:Even though God allowed it. And so Job was actually. I said this once in a sermon and somebody got really pushed back on me for this. But I said Job's statement was unbiblical, even though it was in the Bible, which is a weird way to think, but it's kind of how my brain's wired. He said an unbiblical thing and it made it in the scripture, but the Lord didn't take from him.
Speaker 4:But we have this song and it was a jam and it was top chart song, I mean, and it was a guy with a big old beard that sang it, you know David Crowder. But I just said, yeah, we're not singing that. And there's been songs that we've had here where I've said, hey, we need to explain that song. You know, you wrote an amazing I call it a worship banger Yahweh. And I just remember thinking I love that song but we've got non-believers or new believers in the room going what is Yahweh? And I think I told you, or maybe a pastor, whoever was hosting Bo or Jerae and I said, hey, when you go up following that song, just explain, just teach that. Right, because I think you're right, we just we once a song. It's like when something makes the internet, we think it's published officially, and when we put songs on or lyrics on screens we assume they're published and brought through the right filters for theological truth.
Speaker 4:I mean, hey, we could sing a mormon anthem if you want. Just put it on the screen and see how long it takes people to go wait a minute, what you know. So all this is me kind of ranting. We should write a song that just has the great beat hook. It's got a little little fred frank, uh, fred frank's uh forest frank drop like a beat on it, you know yeah, and then but it's just heresy, you know, and let's see how long until the church revolts going. Wait a minute, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 3:Oh lord, mother jesus we're gonna cut that part out, right guys?
Speaker 4:so we're the, but your your point is like we're warring over words and and people are. What it actually shows me is people are critically thinking about these things and I think that's great, and so we as leaders.
Speaker 3:You want to give people things to critically think appropriately about yeah, I was gonna say, just because someone sees it online, they think, oh, this is true, right, because it's printed and it had a cool canva like well and, and we give a lot of credit to people for degrees they have.
Speaker 4:I read an article recently and I'm just going to say it shocked me. It was basically saying Jesus is not the king of kings. Okay, I'm just going to leave it there because I don't want to call anybody out publicly, but it was written by a PhD and it was written by a graduate of a Ivy league school, phd, and it was published by a denomination publication. All of those credentials would cause somebody to go well, this has to be right. But I'm just going to tell you I got a doctorate and I know a lot of people with high degrees that aren't very smart, you know, and aren't very PhD. A doctorate doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're willing to do more work, and there's a lot of people that aren't very PhD. A doctorate doesn't mean you're smart. It means you're willing to do more work, and there's a lot of people that aren't correct, that have Based on biblical truth.
Speaker 4:Yes, but I mean, think about it. There's opposing categories of PhDs. You can get a PhD in like earth sciences that prove evolutionary, darwinistic, evolutionary theory, and you can also get a PhD in in biblical sciences that allow you to say it's young earth. In both, phds can fight it out. You know, I'm just saying just cause you have advanced degrees or you have a document published, or you have something online with a cool canvas design or whatever, or you get a Christian publishing house to publish your song and it become a top 10 hit doesn't necessarily make it right or true. That's why we have to go back to scripture as our guide and our base for what is true. There's a long way around that. No, that's fantastic.
Speaker 2:That was great, just along those lines. Just this one question I want to ask the both of you is what language? Because first, let me just say this I love how you said you know, irrespective of your vocation, you're a Christian. If you're a Christ follower, you're a leader, because we're leading people to Jesus. So can you help those that are listening who may be struggling with language that they can use to help lead others back to this heart of worship? You know we've had conversations, you know calls, small group discussions and people. I mean, they're just reacting to this tragedy and it's in our face, whether we want to believe it or not. So what is some language that you can help those that are listening who say man, help me to lead others. What, what, what? What are some things I can say to them or challenge them with?
Speaker 4:Well, I think the language should first of all be in King James English, and if it's not in King James, you're probably not even doing it right?
Speaker 2:Are you even saved if you don't know that he died down and thus For sure.
Speaker 4:I think the gospels should be our home base, the gospels of Jesus, the four Matthew, mark, luke and John. And you know, our words should reflect his words. And a question I asked during 2020 is where would Jesus riot? Where would Jesus pick it? What would Jesus say? Who would he speak to? And I, literally, would wrestle through that as a leader and a pastor on his behalf, because you know, again, I have tons of opinions and I have thoughts and feelings and whatever, but when you're serving the Lord, you, you give up the right to think about yourself and your own impulses, and so you have to ask those questions. What would Jesus say? What would he do? Where would he be silent? There were times in the scripture where you were like I wish he would have said more about that, and his silence is actually pretty profound. So I would start there.
Speaker 4:I think the gospel, I think a biblical church, a Bible-oriented church. If we're kingdom people, we're part of his kingdom, which means we belong to him and we belong to his family. If we're kingdom people, we're part of his kingdom, which means we belong to him and we belong to his family, and so I think we share the language of our pastors, our leaders, and it's kind of unfortunate now that we put spiritual leaders through the same scrutiny that we put politicians and people, that we just question everybody. But if you're in a church with a Bible-oriented, spirit-filled pastor, there's a reason God put you there. And what if God has given you that leader to help you put language and handles on how you're feeling too?
Speaker 4:So I think, like I submit to my pastor, I want to know. I have a meeting this Friday with my pastor because he's going to speak to a group of us, about 40 of us pastors or 35 pastors, and he's going to give some leadership to us and we're going to listen to that and we're going to respond to that and we're going to reflect that. So, anyway, I think I think the gospels, I think the scripture in general, but the gospels of Jesus as a home plate. And then what's the? What's the word of your church? You know and trust that and trust that God has ordained that for your life.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think that's great. And share it in your home too, by the way, I think one of the words that jumps out at me is serving others. It was one of the points I made on Sunday and how to respond, and I just read what I wrote here. Service is impossible to argue with and reflects the very heart of God. Jesus served even Judas.
Speaker 4:So good.
Speaker 3:So when we I don't know, when we want to push back or have bad attitudes, or when we're discussing with our family, you know everybody's going to have it. You may be in the same household and have five different opinions about what's happening right now, but what Well?
Speaker 4:five people in our house and yeah, that's the truth.
Speaker 3:But we're going to lead the way according to scripture, like you said, but one of those is serving others. Is the response you have to be a blessing to somebody else, or is it just to share your opinion, to win some conversation? You know?
Speaker 4:I told the guys in Strong last night. I said I've never heard of anybody who said my life got totally radically changed because I read a comment on Instagram.
Speaker 3:I just find that to be a really yeah, that's the other thing I was going to say Tough. I just find that to be a really tough place to make a difference. I think one-on-one conversations are really powerful right now. I think we want to shout to the masses on social media because then we don't have to have one-on-one conversations. But if you really care about somebody and you're really concerned with what they're going through or something they said on social media I've done this before where I've seen a very concerning post and I want to respond in the comments. I've done this before where I've seen a very concerning post and I want to respond in the comments and I've actually just DM that person and said hey, I saw your post. Would you ever be up for a conversation? And what kind of response do you think I got? Any guesses?
Speaker 2:Probably no.
Speaker 3:Crickets, crickets, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so that's because-.
Speaker 4:You can DM me anytime.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, I'll respond. Wow, thank you, you're welcome. But point being one-on-one conversations, I think, are vital right now. People, they genuinely process and grow in a one-on-one conversation.
Speaker 3:I think that the other word that I was thinking of to your answer I don't know if it answers it correctly, but is the word discipleship. Like we need to be, you need to put yourself in a place where you're being discipled. Quit getting online to be discipled. Sit in a room with four or five other Christians that love God and love His Word and just listen, be willing to grow, be willing to learn. This is how we're going to shape our culture. I mean, jesus preached to the thousands. We know this right. He had his 12 and he was very close with three. I mean, who are your three that you're close with? That's pulling you up, that's pulling you to the things of the Lord. So, yeah, it's okay to get on social media and just look around, read a little bit, but that should not be your primary place of discipleship growth.
Speaker 3:Getting your sermons I mean, we've all listened to messages online. That's great. But get in a local church, like, be with God's people in a local context and that's going to really help change and, I think, shape our culture right now. We had a lot of people raise their hands to get saved on Sunday in our church and I know that was reflected in many places around the country. So I just want to encourage you if you're listening to this, or maybe you've been in church for a long, long time be a part of the discipleship process.
Speaker 3:That is what sustains us as Christians is to grow and that's part of our vision. Here we know God, we find freedom. Number two we get in a small group. We're part of discipleship because that's what's going to sustain us our whole lives to serve the Lord and to be grounded so that when crisis comes I don't feel shook because I got my local church, I've got other believers around me. I mean, my small group was texting that day Anybody else here, their small group texting the day of the crisis just with encouragement scriptures. Like you know, there's an unsettling feeling, but when you have your people, there's just something that's so. There's a strength about that. They'll really encourage you. It's great.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I find when, when the world is chaotic, I want to be simpler and more boring, like I want to be close to the Lord and close to my family and close to where God has called me, cause he hasn't called me to the front lines of everything in the world. There's a lot of stuff going on in the world and, as crazy and twisted as things get, like, I just want, I want to be narrower and more boring. I say boring but what I mean is simple. Yeah, and that's a hard discipline because I listen. There is not a shortage of places for you to insert your opinions and positions and to insert your influence or whatever. But I'll tell you, the hardest part of me for last week was not being at the house. I struggled with not being at church too, but more than that was at my house with my girls and you. So I would say, let's call back to things that are basic. And what is it? Jeremiah 6.16, when you're at a crossroads, do the old things that's right take.
Speaker 4:Jasper the angel path.
Speaker 3:And I would encourage to, like parents, families, like in your household, lead the way, lead the conversation. Don't let your kids social media, don't let their opinions they're probably all over the place. Bring your family back to center, which is the Lord his word, and say, as for our house, we, which is the Lord, his word, and say, as for our house, we're going to serve the Lord. And if you hear things, comments from other people in your family that are off, be willing to have a conversation about it. Say I heard you say this. What do you mean by?
Speaker 4:that. Fight for that too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like your home is like the most important place you know we're we're talking a lot about out there, out there, out there. What everyone's saying, but house is is where we are called to disciple first and foremost.
Speaker 1:and if every christian, if we would just start discipling in our house first, let's talk about that, that's going to change the country, you know I love that thought because, like what we're talking about earlier, that so many people are just curious and hungry for jesus right now because of everything that's happening and and, and you see all these posts like there's a great awakening, right, but what good is it for us, as believers, already to be excited about that if our own homes aren't in order?
Speaker 1:And so I think, again, going back to, we need to be able to lead ourselves well in discipleship, in the truth, in the word, the word of the Lord, before we want to bring others in and so and that's that's just like, just as leaders for you know those, those that are listening, and you might be a leader at a church or a ministry, that's important you need to lead yourself well and allow accountability to to be part of that rhythm as well, from from those that speak into your life and as, as we allow and implement those, those guardrails, into our own lives, then we're we're able to be more effective for the kingdom of God and leading other people that are curious and have questions and concerns, and all of those things.
Speaker 3:Because how you lead your house is how your kids are going to lead their friends and other people.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:So we want to. We they're going to imitate. Kids imitate what they see, they repeat, and so, however, whatever we're saying, they're going to say to other people. So let's let it be gospel centered. I do want to make an additional point here.
Speaker 3:Just this really hasn't come up yet, but just some of the you were saying there's just a lot of different opinions happening in the world right now, and almost it can seem divisive. Even though there's this rise in people professing their faith right now, which is amazing, it almost seems like the other side is getting more angry, like there's a division here, and I just was thinking about some of the scriptures. You know, when the gospel becomes more on full display and people are gravitating towards that, the devil hates it in every way and he's going to push back in any way that he can, and so I was just curious about some scriptures that point to this. This is not new. When we look in the book of Acts and we see the gospel proclamation going forward, not everybody was on board. I don't know if that's a new story.
Speaker 4:Even with miracles.
Speaker 3:yeah, and so I just want to review a few of those because I think it's important to know. I think as Christians we're feeling bothered because there's such polarization right now, and I want to address that because as Christians we're going, yes, people are getting saved, and then we're also seeing just such, just a strong reaction against that. And so, for example, in Peter's sermon at Pentecost the very first gospel sermon that was ever preached it says there were salvations. Many those who accepted his message were baptized and about 3000 were added to their number, praise God. Well, the tension was that the maybe no riots here, but this is the message that begins to stir unrest that escalates in later chapters. So, yes, right then, and there something starts to be set into motion.
Speaker 3:There's another one where in Acts 4, peter and John are before the Sanhedrin and they heal a lame man, they preach in Jesus' name and the salvations are many who heard the message believed. They grew to 5,000. I mean, that's incredible. But the opposition was that the religious leaders are greatly disturbed and they're arrested. So they're seeing a polarization that day, just in the same way we are here. Another example in Acts 5, many are healed, but then the high priests and Sadducees. They're filled with jealousy, they arrest them and later have them flogged. So it's like both and both and both, and so I just want to encourage people listening. It goes on from there Like even even when. Stephen, what were we talking? We were talking about this earlier with Stephen when he was killed.
Speaker 3:There was no riot at that moment, but it just it continued to like bring this division, but it strengthened the believers. So I just want people to be encouraged. I think we're expecting all of America and the world to just be completely unified and we all want everyone to feel the same about this. And I just want to tell you it's not going to happen and that's not to be, debbie Downer. We just see that pattern in scripture that when, when, the, when the gospel shines bright, the devil pushes back harder, and so there's going to be people that their hearts will be hardened to the truth and they're not going to receive it in this hour. And so just be encouraged to stay faithful to the end.
Speaker 3:That was kind of the thrust of the message from Sunday Pastor Jordan's message. The heart of that is be faithful, just stay faithful and don't be discouraged when not everyone sees the gospel as something's life giving for them, they still have blinders on. That's what scripture says. They are blinded to the truth. And so Christians, believers, don't be disheartened when it seems like there's friction out there. Don't let that discourage you. In fact, let it encourage you to just keep loving people. And Jesus said if someone doesn't accept your message, you shake the dust right. And then he would tell his disciples if there's persecution, go to another place. Okay, so just I just wanted to throw that out there. I know we weren't really segwaying into that, but I just want people to be encouraged.
Speaker 4:Well, it is the heart of worship that I'm going to stay faithful and committed to King Jesus no matter what. And my decision is no matter what comes my way, I will be faithful to Jesus because he's worthy of it all, and that is the heart of worship, To quote Matt Redman coming back to the heart of worship.
Speaker 2:I don't sing anymore.
Speaker 4:Remember I said that the heart of worship is all about you.
Speaker 1:There it is the wobble, the wobble.
Speaker 4:I'll do the, yeah, the wobble, so I think you're right. It's the heart of worship. Coming back full circle to the topic of the whole discussion is a life where we put King Jesus on full display and listen. That's in high times and low times. He's the guy to the hills and the valleys. And so just that faithfulness, your commitment, your desire to be faithful and stay faithful and endure to the end. Yeah, Patient in tribulation. This will pass. This is a tidal wave. It'll pass.
Speaker 3:Well, sure, a lot will be back. It may not get easier for the Christian Totally. I just want to be honest because that's what we're reading about in the book of revelation. You know how hard it was for these guys, I don't think we have an idea of what hard is compared to first century.
Speaker 4:Boiled in oil. My Lord Beheaded.
Speaker 2:Yeah, crucified upside down.
Speaker 4:Beaten.
Speaker 3:Flogged.
Speaker 4:And that's happening around the world right now in the Congo.
Speaker 3:What was it? 89.
Speaker 4:89. Christians were executed two weeks ago At a funeral.
Speaker 3:For another Christian, the article said that they couldn't even explain how they were killed because it was so gruesome yeah.
Speaker 4:It's just happening right now, and so you used the word perspective earlier. I think if we zoomed out on the global church, there's persecution all over the church, all over the world, and it's still advancing.
Speaker 3:It spurs on.
Speaker 4:His kingdom will know no end and know no bounds. That's a Hillsong quote right there. Well, what is?
Speaker 2:that quote. The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church. It's the only organism and organization in the world that actually proliferates through suffering. Every other organization like you. Think about how many businesses and things crumbled during COVID, but the church grew in the face of persecution and suffering. So that's how you know God's hand is on it and that what an encouragement.
Speaker 4:I heard somebody say the church is the only organization that exists for the good of its non-members. Like we keep pushing building churches for people that haven't even come yet. Like we built a campus on Tiny Town Road for no congregation.
Speaker 3:And people that don't want the church there. Yeah, we're building it for them.
Speaker 4:And we built a church in a Maasai village, for a community that doesn't even have a church. They didn't have a gospel witness and, by the way did I say this earlier the chief of the tribe gave his life to Jesus.
Speaker 3:Come on, yeah, you started with that and that is light in the darkness.
Speaker 4:Come on and you know, by the way, that was the fruit of years of serving that community with. We built a kitchen in their school, we built a, we put water in the village and then, when it came time to hey, can we get this land? They're like, absolutely, You're the only here's what he said. That group out of Tennessee, that church out of America, is the only group doing stuff for us. They can have the land. And that same chief came to service and gave his life to Jesus.
Speaker 4:That's awesome. The gospel's moved forward. It's the only organization that exists for its non-members. For the good of its non-members. That's crazy. Praise the Lord.
Speaker 1:You said something earlier and we'll close with this. But just part of the enemy's weapons in this time, and I think over centuries, is division and distractions. Division, and I think over centuries is division and distractions, division and distractions. And if there's anything, as we grow closer in our devotion to the Lord, he's going to try to distract us. As we grow closer as the body of Christ globally, he's going to try to divide us. And those are just things that we have to not fear, because we don't fear, but we have to be aware of that. Those are his weapons. And then going back to your talking about Ephesians 6, and so we have to study the word, we have to be aware of how the enemy operates, because then we'll be able to be prepared and live a life of worship that's honoring and pleasing to the Lord, and so just be encouraged.
Speaker 2:Amen, it's great Amen. Hey, pastors, michael and Stephanie Burnett, thank y'all Seriously. Thank y'all so much. This was rich and I know that our leaders that are tuning in they're going to be blessed for this, but thank you, guys for taking just time out of your day to pour into us and to pour into our leaders.
Speaker 4:Let me just kind of give a final encouragement. Hey, be steady in the Lord, be patient on the Lord and know that he is well aware of everything that's happening in our world right now. He's not surprised, and if you'll trust him and lean into him, he will bring you peace. The peace of God that's beyond understanding comes as a result of prayer, petition and thanksgiving. Peace does not come from winning a fight online. Peace does not come from getting your political thing accomplished. Peace doesn't come from a sword or a bullet. Peace comes like internal forever. Peace comes from prayer, petition, thanksgiving and trust the lord, seek the lord, keep him first in everything, and I'm telling you this too shall pass. Do Do not divide your house, do not divide God's house. If you're feeling that stirring, just repent, submit yourself to God. Repent of that.
Speaker 4:I think the church is in a fine moment right now. We're a place that people are rushing to, and if the devil can't stop people from coming in, he'll try to work on dividing us from within, and so I'm just calling this church to be at peace, to relax, to trust god. He's the god of this church, he's the god of the of the church and he's doing a work right now and so, uh, you can trust that and just relax and enjoy the presence of the lord god's at work. Amen. I feel like I just repeated that a lot, but maybe we just need to hear it over and over again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's great, that's good, amen, awesome, hey, we appreciate you guys. And once again, thank you guys for listening and we'll see you guys, or you'll hear from us later. Peace out.
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