The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Real conversations on worship, leadership, and living a faith-filled life beyond the platform. Hosted by leaders from LifePoint Church, this podcast is here to inspire, equip, and challenge you—whether you’re leading in ministry, in the marketplace, or just learning to lead yourself well.
The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Repentance, Revival, and a Living Church
We unpack the letter to Sardis in Revelation and ask hard questions about reputation versus reality, drift versus devotion, and why busyness can masquerade as spiritual health. You’ll hear how growth metrics can deceive, how hearts become calloused over time, and the simple, uncomfortable practices that actually bring a sleeping soul back to life.
Jesus gives Sardis a four-part path: remember what you received, remember what you heard, keep it, and repent. That becomes our blueprint for awakening—remember your own salvation, recover wonder, keep the Word, and embrace repentance as a daily turn toward life. We close with the stakes: a sleeping church can’t wake a sleeping world. Let’s be a people who stay teachable, confess quickly, choose gratitude, and burn hot for the One who walks among the lampstands.
If this conversation stirred you, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Then take the next step: pray “Search me,” remember what you’ve received, and keep it today.
Hey, what's up everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Worship and Leadership Podcast. As always, I am your favorite cousin, cousin Willie. Come on, somebody, and I'm excited today because I am joined by a bevy of beautifully bountiful brothers and sisters. To my right side, I got Emily Hams. Emily, welcome. Hello, hello, so good to see you today.
SPEAKER_06:Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, we're gonna have fun today. It's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_06:It's gonna be good.
SPEAKER_03:It's gonna be really good. It's good. Why? Because over here to my left, I got my home slice. I got my brother from another mother, Pastor Jordan Smalley. He is our Austin P and young adult campus pastor. Woohoo!
SPEAKER_01:Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_03:Hey man. Could you go back? What's Bevy? A Bevy. Bevy. So a Bevy is it's a fancy way of saying a group or like a gaggle. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I appreciate that. I'm already learning stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it's like a smattering. That's good.
SPEAKER_05:I like that.
SPEAKER_03:It's another way of saying a gaggle. I don't know a gaggle is if you just said that one. I use another vocabulary word. Bevy. Instead of saying group, I said gaggle. Anyway. Anyway.
SPEAKER_02:And my name is Mike. It's great to have you. Nope. You lost the momentum. You gaggled on. Keep on moving. You ever wonder when people say brother from another mother? It's kind of like, okay, so your dad just trifling. You know, like he was a rolling stone. What about that, dude? You know. So yeah, anyway. Yeah. It means we have dad issues. That's what that means. That's right. It's my brother from another mother. And we have terrible wounds. Father wounds. All right. Anyway.
SPEAKER_06:This is going really great.
SPEAKER_02:It's good to see Emily in the spot where Pastor Elmer normally kicks it. That's right. Yeah. And you got big shoes to fill. You really do. Lead on, lead on. You need glasses, man.
SPEAKER_06:I do. I do. And today's the one day. I didn't wear my glasses. So I was like, you know what? It's fine. We're just gonna roll.
SPEAKER_02:Is that why your phone is so far from you right now? So you can see it. It is.
SPEAKER_06:I can see it, man. Do you put it on the table? Listen, I just had a birthday and it's hitting hard.
SPEAKER_02:That was fun actually to celebrate your birthday. The team did a great job putting the office together. That was fun.
SPEAKER_06:It was awesome. We do have fun here. We do have a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02:A lot of sugar, though. That that was That was. What about that cake you got?
SPEAKER_06:That was strawberry crunch cake. Angelina Higgins made it. No doubt. I mean, it was it was the best. That was a manna from heaven. It was dense. It was rich. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:I'm on a I'm on a no I'm on a low to no sugar thing. I keep trying.
SPEAKER_06:I like how you corrected that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I gotta be honest. I'm a Christian. Jimmy, I'm a low-to-no sugar thing. And that was a tough day because you literally were shouting down the hall, like, come eat this cake because I don't have to. And so I I literally walked up to that cake with every intention of saying it's on. But I refrained. I thanked you graciously. I walked away. So yesterday I saw her at a women's small group gathering where she brought a ton of other baked goods. That's right. And what did I do, Emily? Shout it out. What'd I do?
SPEAKER_06:No, I can't.
SPEAKER_02:I walked away.
SPEAKER_06:He did. I can confirm you did.
SPEAKER_02:I had I had four cheese cubes instead. Yes, when you know the Lord's at work. Yes. Come on, that's when you know the Lord's at work in your life. I have an unhealthy partnership with sugar at night. And uh that is my problem. So anyway.
SPEAKER_06:What's your go-to?
SPEAKER_02:I feel you. Oh, there's no question. It's ice cream. Yeah. Okay. Come on. Usually with either peanut butter, chocolate, caramel, some mixture of those or combination of those. I get a little bored with some of the common stuff. You know, cookies and cream. Yeah, it's all right. Okay. I mean, it's funny. It's solid though. That's the thing. It's solid. Right. It doesn't go wrong. Right. It just doesn't always treat me right. Anyway, I do like, you know, same with cookie dough. I feel like it's just so overdone. So I like something with uh extra chocolate or man, if you can put caramel, which is the correct pronunciation. Yeah, it is caramel.
SPEAKER_01:Question is the brand. What brand are you going with? Because every brand does a difference. That's correct. Yeah. And the brand makes a big difference.
SPEAKER_02:I want to give a shout out to uh an underdog in the ice cream world who used to be the front runner. Okay. Baskin Robbins. Oh, wow. I was not expecting that. That's why I'm saying that one. Everybody's all snobby about their ice cream, but I'm going to tell you a scoop of ice cream that will not disappoint. It's at Baskin Robbins. It's called Gold Metal Ribbon. It is chocolate French vanilla swirled with caramel. And it is good every single time.
SPEAKER_00:I think I've been to a Baskin Robbins like once in my entire Baskin Robbins is not a place that I frequented.
SPEAKER_03:I hadn't been to Baskin Robbins since I hit puberty, man.
SPEAKER_02:I'm trying to tell you it's the underdog. Used to be the front runner. 31 flavors, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Well, thanks for coming to our podcast, guys. We're going to Baskin Robins.
SPEAKER_02:31 flavors. Not a song they ever had. Anyway.
SPEAKER_01:Bluebells on top, just saying.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'm just I'm telling you guys, do yourself a favor, try Baskin Robbins. Okay. And get you that gold metal ribbon. Gold metal ribbon. You will not be disappointed.
SPEAKER_06:I like it.
SPEAKER_02:So it's the only job I was ever fired from was Baskin Robbins. Really? 16 years old. Got a new manager. Didn't go well for me.
SPEAKER_01:Were you eating the ice cream? I mean, what happened?
SPEAKER_02:This is before Jesus, so I'm not real proud of this, but it just it was a it was a hostile engagement. And so he fired me. And I go, Yeah, you gotta fire me. I quit. So he I was fired quitted. Yeah. After he said I was fired. So I got the last word and he just looked at me as I walked out and didn't work there anymore. So but that gold metal ribbon, I'm just telling you. Okay. It's no joke. Plus the ice cream cakes from Baskin Robins. No, those are delicious. What?
SPEAKER_03:Now hey, those are fire.
SPEAKER_01:Dairy Queen's ice cream cakes.
SPEAKER_03:Those are good, but Baskin Robin cakes, ice cream cakes are, they are money. Seriously. That that they do very well. I will say that.
SPEAKER_02:I'm just telling everybody in town, I am a fan of ice cream places. I'm not knocking anybody. I'm just saying the underdog needs to be back on the come up, Baskin Robbins. Yeah. And there's one in Clarksville.
SPEAKER_05:There is.
SPEAKER_02:There's where's that? Uh-huh. See, that's your problem.
SPEAKER_03:I I haven't been since I had puberty, since my voice dropped.
SPEAKER_02:So about three years. All right. So Baskin Robbins on Wilma Rudolph near the Yellowtail. Okay. Okay. So it's a spot. Come on. Gold metal ribbon. Chocolate vanilla caramel swirl. It's good. Don't get it as a milkshake either, because it gets rid of the complimentary flavors. Oh, compliment. Okay. So this is my problem. See, now I'm not doing, I'm doing no and low sugar, and I saw the one I'm talking about. Did you know during 21 days of fasting I watch food shows? Yeah, you did say that. So I don't eat anything for 30 minutes. Torture. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:That's torture.
SPEAKER_02:I don't lick my phone or try to smell the screen or nothing. I'm just that would be tough. So look, my daughters, they'll be stomach. My family eats. My wife will fast usually four or five of the days and then do one meal a day, dinner, with my girls. And so they'll be eating, and I'll be in the living room watching Guy Fieri or Man versus Food. That show to me is just fun. I do love that show. Yeah. So anyway, and they're they're yelling at, why are you watching this? This is torture.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, what about those one things that we were just watching? What are those called?
SPEAKER_06:No. Again.
SPEAKER_02:ACMR videos. ASMR.
SPEAKER_03:What did I say? ACMR? That's a remote. That's a report. It's not like a news report. ASMR. The uh the mukbang. He just started watching somebody just slapping down some seafood.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's weird.
SPEAKER_03:I'm with you on that, Jordan.
SPEAKER_02:That's weird. So Jordan got grossed out at the thought, or he got weirded out at the thought of watching people from around the world eat with uh hot microphones. Right, exactly. That's why they did.
SPEAKER_01:This is so strange to me.
unknown:So good.
SPEAKER_02:So here we are. Here we are.
SPEAKER_06:So here we are.
SPEAKER_02:So Emily, welcome to this jungle.
SPEAKER_06:Thank you. I am thoroughly enjoying this.
SPEAKER_02:This is great. This is like family.
SPEAKER_06:Scratching all of the Enneagram seven spots in my brain all at once. So much.
SPEAKER_02:We went from your birthday to Baskin Robbins among ice cream. ASMR, mukbangs. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:So now let's talk about the book of Revelation.
SPEAKER_03:All right. Because those were the same issues they was having back then. People were getting grossed out because what was happening?
SPEAKER_02:That's right. Lots of food.
SPEAKER_03:So for those of you that are new to the podcast, we are on Sundays in the middle, right? SmackDab in the middle of a series in Revelation, specifically Jesus' seven letters to the churches of Asia Minor, which is uh what is known as Turkey today, the the country of Turkey. And so this past Sunday, Pastor Mike, you did a phenomenal job preaching on Jesus' letter to the church uh at Sardis. And the and really the overarching theme there was to wake up. You know, again, so he starts by saying, like he does with every letter thus far, I know your works. And and I think you did a brilliant job of unpacking. Jesus is always aware of where we are and what we are doing. That's great. And then he leans into you have this reputation of being alive, but I know that you are dead. And so, Pastor Mike, I just would love for you to just to re-expound on that because it was so good and so convicting on today what the reputation is that we lean into and the reality of what God knows about us.
SPEAKER_02:Well, loving this series, we're almost done. We have two Sundays left, so we're five out of seven weeks done. Sardis was a town, it was a city fortified at the top of a mountain and really difficult to get into, especially as an enemy trying to conquer it because of its position. And the story was that they were actually conquered because of one of their night watchmen fell asleep. So Jesus, he falls asleep, the enemy's watching him. It was during a time of fighting, but they were, you know, dormant at night, I guess. And so they watched this guy find us. He he falls asleep, his helmet falls off, rolls down the mountain, so he goes down to get it and sneaks back in through a secret passageway. And that's how Cyrus ends up conquering the city is they end up going through that secret date, that door that he should have never exposed. Jesus uses that that history that they knew to say, just like that dude was sleepy and it cost the whole city. You're you're actually a church that's asleep. Or dead, actually, was the language he used. Right. But the the the parallel actually, he says you're dead, then says wake up. So that's why I kept going sleep versus dead, but it's all kind of the same sentiment there. But yeah, I mean, he he starts by acknowledging their great reputation, which is what other people are saying about you and how people see you in the community or maybe among other churches in Asia Minor, you know, out of town, and you've got a great reputation. And I think it's valuable to have a great reputation. I want to be careful that I don't suggest that that's not worth anything, but we don't live for the approval of people. Right. We we want to have a good reputation. It's valuable to have, I mean, I don't think anybody wants to walk around with a bad reputation, right? But that's not where it stops. He says, You have great reputation because I I know your works, you're doing good, you're keeping up with the Joneses or whatever, you're growing, but still you're dead. One of the interesting thoughts about that, I didn't say it in on the message on Sunday, but just because something's growing doesn't mean it's growing with health. Yeah. Growing things can be unhealthy, like a tumor, right? So sometimes in the church world we think, well, we're growing, so we must be okay. Look at the budget, look at the bio, look at the look at the attendance. It's all up and to the right, so we're good. Yeah that is not a sign of healthy. That could be growing tumors.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And so anyway, he he he's really confronting them. He doesn't brag a ton. He just says, I see what you're doing, what other people say about you, and then here's what I say about you, you're dead. And I just feel like it's a major warning for every church, really, to realize that this could be any of our future at any time, you know, if we are if we're not careful to keep our hand to the plow, our heart next to Jesus, and passion for the things that he's passionate about, because we could still we can get into the motions of just doing church work and and doing Sundays and whatever without a love and a hunger for Christ. I mean, takes us back to his letter to the Ephesians. I see all your works, great works. He he lists a bunch of great things.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But you don't love me first. Yeah. Jesus said something similar to this in Matthew's gospel when he says that when I separate everybody, sheep and goats, you know, insider, outsider, he said, Many will say to me in those days, Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name? I mean, that's like spiritual people do those things. Yep. And he said, But depart from me because I never knew you. You can still do spiritual things, and God will let you do it. And he may even anoint the outcome of those spiritual things that you're doing. Because people getting set free of a demon by people who don't know Jesus, that's wild to think about. Yeah. So somebody gets the blessing, that's how providential and how good God is, that he'll even use you know, somebody who doesn't love him to set somebody else free. That's that's a whole other conversation. Yep. But that's the providence of God and the grace of God on other people's lives. But he said, I don't know you. So this theme throughout scripture, the Lord wants to know us, be close to him, and for us to be a living, breathing, alive church. And it is possible to still be a gathering of people who have a belief in Christ and be dead. Yep. That's a sobering challenge.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. Yeah. Pastor Jordan, so let me let me ask you this, you know, again, like you know, whether it's dead or sleep, the the the thought is still the same. There's inactivity. Oh, I say inactivity, there's a lack of life.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:What would you say is one of the main ways that people kind of drift to sleep today as you know, as Christ followers or God followers? Just give me some ways that people drift to sleep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I think it's I think it's interesting too, you know, just that idea of between dead and asleep, because I think it's I think that's something that happens gradually and over time. Right. I don't think anybody is passionate for the Lord, one day on fire for God, and their relationship with the Lord is, you know, thriving and you know, growing, and then the next day they wake up and it's like they're cold and turned off and dead to the things of God. I I think it I think it's something that happens gradually and over time. I think that's something we got to keep an eye on. Yeah. I think that's something we have to watch. I think, you know, that's something I I self-evaluate and look at in my own life. You know, I remember the day that I got saved, you know, and and how passionate and excited I was about the things of God. And, you know, over time, gradually, you can slowly fall asleep in certain areas. You can become casual, you can start to, you know, just these areas that used to be, you used to be so passionate and fired up about, maybe you're not so much anymore. So I would just definitely encourage, you know, you know, personally, as we self-evaluate, you know, especially a message like this, just to evaluate where where in my life have I have things where I've been passionate, excited about the things of God have have grown cold, have slowly fallen asleep over time. You know, maybe it's in the area of my Bible reading, my time with the Lord. Maybe, maybe I used to spend time with the Lord three days a week or four days a week, and I used to get up and read scripture and now it's once a week, once every other week, and and now it's not anymore. And so I just think keeping an eye, I think, I think just doing a spiritual checkup a lot of times is is good for us. Yeah. And that's what I think has been great about these different letters is you know, spend what is the spirit saying to the churches? And you know, obviously the churches are made up of believers like you talked about. So I think we have to do a lot of self-evaluation. So I think you gotta look at your own life and just go, gosh, where have I where have I become complacent, falling asleep at? And keep an eye on those things.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The the last letter of the seven is Laodicea, where Jesus says, I would rather you be hot or cold than lukewarm.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And lukewarm is just temperate to its environment. And everything, if left alone, will temper to its own environment. Think about that. If I put a 120-degree pot cup of coffee right here and let it sit for two hours, it will become the temperature of this room. If I put an ice cold cup of iced coffee and I leave it alone for two or three hours, it'll temper to the temperature of this room. And I think we have to be careful in the same way. Marriages can become temperate to the culture. Or you can become temperate to where you're not keeping a passion alive in your marriage. Friendships can become temperate.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And things that matter take effort, right? So what you're saying is so good and so valuable. The the thing that you said that I think is so unusual is you say, I have to do my own self-evaluations.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because most of us, especially the older we get, we're not in evaluation stage anymore. That's what I did in my 20s. Who am I going to be? What am I going to do with my life? What what career path am I going down? Then I get into a life, I get a wife, so I'm not looking for women anymore. I get kids, I'm not trying to make kids anymore. You know, I'm I've got a career, I'm not looking for new jobs or trying to develop my skills anymore. I'm a Christian, I go to church. Yeah. Boxes checked in every category. Adulthood, career, family, religion, faith. But that statement you made about we have to temper, we have to evaluate, uh that's a regular that should be a regular occurrence. How how do you do that? How do you do you set a reminder on your phone? Do you have process and a system for that? Because honestly, if you just ignore it, it will temper. Yeah. It'll temper, it'll, it'll establish, it'll reach the temperature of this of the prevailing culture, so to speak, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure. Well, I think like I think you may mention this, putting logs on a fire, you know, I think you mentioned that in your message on Sunday, but I think we're responsible. I have to take responsibility for my own spiritual life and my own walk with the Lord. I can't rely on church on uh on a Sunday for Pastor Mike to, you know, or whoever's speaking to feed my faith throughout the week. I mean, that's great to come, but but I have I'm in charge of that. I'm responsible for that. And so I just think I think it's a regular, it's a it's a Lord, it's it's that prayer, you know, David prayed, God point out anything in me. Psalm 139. Yeah, Psalm 139, yeah. And and that's just a prayer that I pray, I try to pray regularly. And I know, I know we talk a lot about that prayer, but that's just a prayer to go, God, point out anything in me that has fallen asleep. And I think that's a I think that's a good place to start in an area where you feel like, gosh, you've drifted or fallen asleep or you're dead in an area. Just that prayer right there, just to go, Lord, point out anything in me that's offensive to you, that gosh, point out anything in me where I've areas where I've fallen asleep or become complacent or or or I'm dead in my faith. Lord, would you would you just in those areas? And I think a lot of times we know those areas if we were to get super honest. I mean, I think I think we just start with some of the basic fundamental things of scripture reading, spending time with the Lord, a prayer life, a worship life, you know, all that stuff. That's kind of where that fire stokes. That's where our faith is built. We spent time in the word. We draw close to the Lord through prayer, community with other people. Right. I think too, gosh, I think I think a scary thing to ask maybe somebody you love and trust that's close to you, that does life with you, that's a solid believer in Jesus, invite them into that space and just say, hey man, what like as somebody who you know is watching my life as a follower of Christ, like, you know, uh maybe after hearing a message like this on Sunday, invite somebody in to go, are you do you notice anything in me that just seems like I've areas that I've fallen asleep or I've maybe I'm not? And I think that's a good thing to talk about in community with your small groups. Yeah, you know, hey, let's chat, let's sharpen each other here, let's challenge each other here a little bit. What are you seeing now? Because I've I've people in my life that do that for me. Yeah, you know, my wife is, gosh, she's a she challenges me every day. Yeah. Faith. I just go, gosh, I look at my face sometimes in her prayer life, and I go, gosh, dang, I need to pray more. You know, but I just think it's things like that.
SPEAKER_02:So that you quoted Psalm 139, starting the whole chapter is David saying, The Lord has searched me, he has known me, he's formed me right in past tense, and then he ends in verse 23. So search me again, oh God. Yeah, know my heart, try me and know my thoughts, and see if there be any grievous way in me and lead me in the way everlasting. So you're saying, I just I want to get real practical in my question. Yeah, you said I pray that prayer all the time. Like, talk to somebody who doesn't know how to do that, who doesn't have a prayer. Is this written in a journal? Do you have like I have a good friend of mine that the he was my first pastor, Greg Harper? He's got a list of people he prays for on Mondays. He's got a list of people that he prays for on Tuesdays. So, like it'll say pastors, all of his pastor friends is who he prays for on Tuesdays or whatever day. So every once in a while he'll say, Hey, I pray for you today. Because I'm I'm literally in a journal system for him. Yeah do you systematize it that directly? Do you have those scriptures and the the self-evaluation moments in your once a month, first of the month? This is my first day of the month prayer life, or is it just as it comes to mind and it's that general and and fluid?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I I mean I follow a method that's what I'm looking for. The soap method when I sit down every morning when I sit down and spend time with the Lord, I write, I have a journal in front of me, I write S O A P, you know, along the side of the page, and this S is scripture. So I normally write down what scripture I'm reading or you know, whatever. So I just write down scripture there, and then O is observation. So I read the text and what am I observing, seeing in that text, and then A is application, okay, based on what I've read, how's this gonna, how's this gonna shape me, mold me? What's this gonna do in me? Yeah. And then the last one is prayer, it's P, it's prayer. And so I just and then I and then whatever based on whatever I'm reading, I'll pray, you know, Lord, would you take what I just read today and and you know, make this true in my life, form me, shape me, mold me in this way. And then I normally make that a part. And again, this is not a I can't sit here and say that I do this perfectly every day, all the time, this search me prayer, but I think I do try to make that a part of my my daily discipline, my habit, my routine with the Lord. I end in a moment of of going, God, I've read your word, I've heard your word, search me, know me, Lord. I and it's a moment of repentance. I think that's one of the I mean that's a that's been a theme throughout these letters too, is just repentance. It's a turning back to. And I think, gosh, I I when I first became a follower of Jesus, that that term repent, I think is just always been it's been a harsh word for people when you don't know the kind of because you immediately think of the guy on the street corner, Turner Byrne, you know, repent, you're going to hell. And so we don't like to call people to that because some people have a negative connotation when it comes to repentance, but repentance is a beautiful, amazing things. I think that's the only way to go from a dead sleeping faith. It's a repentance, it's a turning from it's gosh, I was sleeping in this area, and Lord, I just repent of God's falling asleep in my faith in this area, and I turn back to you. So I think it's making those moments of repentance a part of our you know, uh daily walk with the Lord, our time with with God.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm from Louisiana, so it's a heavy Catholic tradition in New Orleans, especially. And then when I would go to church as a kid, it was often like a strong Pentecostal holiness traditions where man, if you have sin, you are going to hell unless you repent. It was always fear and turn and burn kind of hellfire brimstone. So repentance was the get me out of hell right move. And in the Catholic tradition, repentance comes with penance, like it has payments, it has things you do. So pray the rosary, hail Mary's, the giving the offerings or serve in a soup kitchen if you really want to be. So repentance is heavy, it's costly, it's and and the true, I mean, that's that's kind of my framework as a kid growing up with repentance. It's costly, it's heavy, it's it's hard. And the reality is repentance, I mean, you you repent if for anything that you want good, you have to turn away from something bad. Right. So if you want a healthy marriage, you got to just say, okay, I'm gonna just decide to date my wife again and send her love notes, and I'm gonna get counseling if we need. I'm just changing from what I was doing that ain't working to what I'm doing that will work. Right. It's that simple. It's changing from left to right. If you want better parenting, don't try to make new kids, just decide to be a better dad to the ones you got. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so repentance is I I think I've said in the last couple sermons, it's the single simplest thing to do, simplest thing to do, but it costs you everything. Yep. So the heaviness is not in the act of repenting, the heaviness is actually what you're releasing. Yeah, 100%. And then when you gain, like Jesus says, take my yuke upon me, it's upon you for it's easy and light. If it's heavy and hard, it ain't God. Yeah. It's easy and light, it's from the Lord, right? So what you walk into becomes life-giving and better.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But you're right. I think repentance is such a loaded word, it's a religious word.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:But we actually repent all the time. That's right. I mean, you're gonna you you you decide what restaurant to go to. We're gonna leave my house and go to you know, wherever Yellowtail and then Baskin Robbins. That's an act of repentance. I'm not gonna eat at home, I'm gonna eat out. Yeah, I mean, it's as simple as that. I'm changing my mind. Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually what the word repentance means is to change your mind. So yeah, so you have a daily rhythm of this kind of behavior. And the reason I'm bringing that up is because sometimes in sermon sermon work, we just teach these truths, we teach these theological realities and principles. And and I'm Jordan, one thing I like about being in the room with you for sermon prep is you're always like, So, so what do we do with that? Yeah, like how give some practical applications and so you're you're speaking to some of that because it's one thing to believe these things are correct, yeah. It's another thing to do something with them. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_06:And I have a question for the for the guys who actually create, I mean, all of y'all are in sermon prep, y'all do the thing, y'all come up with pretty much what you're gonna say in it. And these sermons aren't just for people sitting in life point, they're also for you. The these scriptures were written also for you during during these during the sermon series. What has God caused to become more alive in y'all personally if you feel comfortable talking about it right now? But what is it that God has said, hey, wake up a little bit in that for you through this series specifically?
SPEAKER_02:Well, as the pastor, I mean, you can't actually be a pastor without having already perfect obedience to the Bible. So none of it really gotcha.
SPEAKER_06:You're good to change me at all. Next.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's actually a misnomer. Some people actually truly believe that, but that's why I'm like, Yeah, I don't know. I appreciate you. Well, I I will say, as a because I want to be a man of integrity, I want to wrestle through these in my own life first, for sure. Yes, um, and I have to I I never want to present the idea that I've got this perfected. I and I will admittedly say, come on, is this hard for anybody but the preacher? Yeah, you know, I'm on this journey of discipleship too. I'm just the lead disciple in this house, you know. So anyway, it it is convicting to read some of the stuff and then evaluate my own personal life, private life, parenting, leadership, etc. Yeah. I think, I think we have a a willingness to to be confronted by the sermons that we preach. I think I hope so. Yeah. Um, and like you said about Aaron, I mean, my wife does a great job of encouraging that consistency in my own life, but but I'm on the same faith journey. There's stuff I'm discovering, going, wow, this is amazing. I'm so excited to bring it to the church. But man, I gotta live this out too. I mean, I gotta there's sermons that I have preached where I've not liked it. Yeah, you know, I'm going through a book or whatever or something in in scripture, and I do I just think, man, I'd rather skip over that. But yeah, you do have to submit to the scripture even as the preacher.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So, you know, we we did our a strongmen's panel last night, me, Pastor Mike, Pastor Nate, and Pastor Bo. And it was first of all, that was fun. That was that was just a great time. I'm I'm getting emails literally right now during this podcast from from the guys who really enjoyed it. But something that Pastor Bo said that was just so profound, he said, I don't ever want to get to this space or to the point where I look at the sermon and I say, I don't, I don't need that. He said the day that the day that I hear a message and say, you know what? I've heard it before. That's just such a dangerous place to be. So for me personally, it's actually on the it on on the back side of sermon prep, and it's on Sundays when the word's being preached. I'm coming in with an openness. I'm coming in with a humility to just say, Lord, I I kind of know the direction and the flow. Because Pastor Mike, you know, you you email, you know, a specific email distro list. So like I have your manuscript, you know, the day of or the day before Sunday service. And so I'm, you know, I mean, I'm I'm quick to read it and say, Pastor Mike, I'm excited about this message. So I have the full manuscript before our people hear it. But I'm gonna walk in with humility. So for for for Willie Simpson, like that's that's how I I allow the text to wrestle because as Pastor Mike's preaching it, or Pastor Jordan or Pastor Elmer, whoever, I'm sitting in the same seat as our people. Lord, I need this just as much as the one sitting next to me. And that is the surest way to self-evaluate and say, man, Lord, I want you to, I don't want to just read this manuscript. I don't want to just read the word, I want the word to read me. Do it real time right now. And if I need to repent, if I if I need to adjust and shift, I'm gonna do it right now. Pastor Mike, you said you would make this statement and you attributed it to another leader. I don't know who the leader is, so I'm gonna say you said it. And that is no one drifts to a desired location.
SPEAKER_02:That's brilliant.
SPEAKER_03:It's phenomenal. Yeah, I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_02:I think I did say that.
SPEAKER_03:I believe I know you did because I don't know. I heard it from Pastor Chris Hodges. Oh. Love you, Pastor Chris. But it is so true. No one drifts to a desired location. Like, I don't get into my vehicle and then become surprised when I'm in Nashville, Tennessee. How did I get here? You drove there. I don't get into a boat. And say, man, how did I get to the other side of the shore? Like, like, you know, like from dock to dock. And so I the reason I'm saying that is because I would like to kind of spend a little more time there because I think that's where people struggle. They they look at their lives today, they come in for counseling, and they don't know how to explain the mess that their life is right now. And when you help them to unpack, hey, let's look at this series of decisions to use your vernacular. Let's start at the dumpster fire and work our way back and allow the Lord to reveal to you how we got here. If that if that makes sense. So Emily, just kind of speak to that. And I'd love to go around and really talk to that because that's just such a sticking point. That starts as issue. You're asleep. How do we get asleep? Like we didn't just all of a sudden wake, you know, decide I'm gonna become ignorant of what's happening around me. So Emily, this kind of help unpack that.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, no. So I mean, one of the things that I love to do is I have always come to Willie and said, hey, let's start in the dumpster fire and work our way backwards, and then we're gonna figure out what to do from there. And from that is where we can learn how to wake up. That's where we can learn how to put certain boundaries in place. That's where we can learn the habits. That's where we can learn all of those things. So where have been those places for y'all, honestly? And and that's the question is, hey, where can we do this and how do we do it? And so, so where has been the places that y'all can see to wake up? Where where are those dumpster fires that you don't want to end up at?
SPEAKER_02:I I would say in this series in particular, you know, the the message that you preach, Jordan, on a willingness to suffer. First of all, we plan our sermons that way in advance. In fact, just this today we had our sermon planning meeting for 2026, which we did as a collective group. And one of the things I told our team, I said, just be excited to see the providence of God when sermons land on crazy days and the the nation's story, right? So you preached the message in Smyrna about suffering the Sunday after Charlie Kirk was killed for his beliefs, his conviction, his faith. And and then you you you challenge the whole church. Are we willing to live in a way that we would endure persecution? Well, I'll be honest, I mean, pastoring in the South, the Bible Belt of the US, we don't really have a ton of persecution and suffering here. I'm not inviting it, but I do think I I was convicted hearing that, going, Man, I don't, I don't think I have the right to call anything I've gone through suffering. So then I tell the Lord, Lord, I'm I don't long for suffering, but I'm willing to endure it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:James says, counter to joy when you find yourself in various trials. Yeah. And I love to give that verse to people going through trials, but I don't want that. Keep that to yourself, James. So I think I think I have to wrestle through what am I willing to endure? And it comes in different ways. Like what sacrifices am I willing to give? Think about our forward campaign. I want to be super sacrificial in building this new church and paying for it as a family. And what are we willing to give up my daughter moving away to go to school instead of staying local? That's something we have to, I mean, as parents, we had to say, hey, we're gonna take our hands off that and let the Lord lead her. And it's it's from as simple as that to other kinds of persecution and suffering, God forbid. But if it were to come, am I willing to endure it? And so I had to ask questions do I have a resolve in me to endure even a loss of my life for my faith, right? Yeah, a sign of true belief is if I'm willing to die for something. There's stuff I believe in, but I ain't dying for it. You know what I'm saying? Like there's political positions I have, but I don't kill me over it, bro. Hey, you can be right if you want.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, Baskin Romans?
SPEAKER_02:Nope, I ain't dying for that either. Come on now. I'm not dying for it. You know what I'm saying? So like I hold convictions and beliefs on stuff that I'm not willing to die for, but I I would for my faith. Absolutely I would. And I'm not gonna back off of it uh because it's hard. So I I was really challenged there. I I make a joke sometimes when I'm preaching, going, does anybody else wish the Bible didn't say that? That's my way of saying this is hard for me too. Yeah, just because I'm a preacher doesn't mean I'm perfect on this stuff. So I we have to wrestle with the text. I still have to be human and honest about the difficulty of full surrender to Jesus Christ. And until I die, I've got room to grow. So it is convicting and it's hard. I I will say, Emily, I hope that I don't preach stuff that I'm blatantly living against. Yeah, like it's good for you, but not for me. Yeah. I hope that I have enough honesty or personal integrity to never do that. So I don't think I preached anything that I don't believe in and desire for my life, but I don't know. I've been preaching a long time. I've probably avoided some passages that maybe I don't understand or text I don't like. So I'm like, I don't want to submit to that right now. So I'm not gonna preach it. Is that too honest? That's probably like disqualifyingly honest, isn't it? No, yeah, no. Well, I think too, like I said no, yeah, no. Jordan has this Midwest. Yes, the youngest. Yeah, no, no. You said it earlier too, Emily. Yeah, no, I don't understand that. You ask a question, it's like, do you like Baskin Rhymens? Yeah, no, it's so good. Yeah, no, no, for real, yeah. What?
SPEAKER_06:Anyway, I cannot wait to unintentionally do that. Oh, catch me. I am so you're not gonna catch me.
SPEAKER_02:You're not gonna catch me. My girls will do it too. And I'm like, what world are we living in? So just now I said, I hope I have the integrity to live by what I preach. And you're like, yeah, no, yeah, no. I I don't know what y'all believe about me right now, but I heard both options from all three of you. Go ahead, George.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I agree with what you're saying.
SPEAKER_02:No, but uh, yeah, seriously.
SPEAKER_01:No, but yeah, I mean, yeah, that's but yeah, no. Oh I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh big block.
SPEAKER_00:Oh Lord, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I think he said yeah.
SPEAKER_00:No, I didn't know. You almost didn't say ballot. You go, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Stay full of things. Would you lead us back into conversation here, Pastor Willie?
SPEAKER_02:So her question was how do we wrestle through these passages and what's it convicting for us and how are we adjusting?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, gosh, I think you know, you talk being asleep, being dead, but then I also think, I mean, if I was to throw a third one in there, which is kind of a mix of I think sleepwalking. I think in our Christianity we can we can be, and I think this is the this is the understanding between behind being asleep is in our in our faith is like you can be going through all the motions but be uh asleep to it, but be dead to you know, your being dead in your faith or being a you know asleep in your faith. And so I think sometimes I have to, you know, evaluate myself even even as a pastor, like there are just uh areas in my spiritual walk and my relationship with the Lord where like I can just I can be going through the motions of it and have an appearance of it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, and I think one of the things you have to, you know, wrestle through, you I'm just kind of going back through things that were being said, but just going back to something you said about the panel the other night that I think that Pastor Bo had mentioned. I think I think it's really easy in our walk in relationship to the Lord over time to become callous. And I think like you think of callous like on your fingers from lifting, like or callous in you know, any other area that the whole idea there is that you just you don't feel that stuff anymore. And I think that's a marker where you just kind of gotta go, gosh, am I am I are there are there am I can I sit in a sermon like that on Sunday and have that not affect me or stir something or awaken something in me at all?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so and so I think too, it's where have I just become calloused in areas where I just don't where truth is speaking has is spoken like that on a Sunday from God's word, that either my heart has become calloused or numb too, that I just that I would walk out of there on a Sunday and just kind of go like that. I just think these messages, I mean I think every Sunday, but I think specifically the you know, the series, you know, the seven letters, I think, gosh, if this is not awakening you to something, if this is not if if as a Christian you walk out of here on a Sunday and these messages are not provoking or poking on some area, yeah, I would start to go, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What's wrong with me?
SPEAKER_01:What is man? Have I grown callous in an area where I've just I'll become intensive? Well, yeah, where maybe I need the Lord to peel back some of those layers of my heart where I've just become numb, callous, you know. I just don't, I'm not receptive or open. So that's a scary place for me too, is when you get to a spot where you start to just go, this doesn't really have an effect. This isn't really, you know, stirring me anymore.
SPEAKER_02:I think that's why Jesus, I think it's why Jesus ends these letters with, He who has an ear, let him hear. Yes. You have to want to be that's so good. You have to have an open ear for this stuff. Yeah, you do. I listen, I'm the I'm the lead pastor and the primary preacher of this church. And I still go back and listen to my sermon to listen as a congregant. I do. I go, I listen to my sermon every week. It's not to because I'm I love myself, it's because I need the word that you guys got. Yeah. I wrote the sermon. I I manuscripted the thing, I delivered it multiple times, and then I go listen to it as a congregation member.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I still have to have a teachability when you guys preach. Anybody else on the team preaches? I mean, this summer we took our girls to a fine arts deal where they had like certain human videos and sermon prep as a as categories and singing and all this stuff. And I got to hear some short sermons from like 15-year-old kids where it I'm I'm sitting in the room, even though they're they're doing it to display this gift and to grow and get better. I still want to be able to hear from that. Yeah. You know, my kids will share what God's speaking to them in school, and I want to learn from that. I we have to have a posture. You know, you mentioned earlier that prayer that you'll pray, God, search me, yeah, teach me. That that in and of itself is a disposition of teachability. And when you lose that, I think that teachability is one of the high standards of being on our team, right? Like we say it. You have to be teachable and correctable and grow, grow intentionally and all that stuff. So I think spiritual teachability is a huge thing. And I don't care how long you've been in church. I think about Pastor Gene Paul, who attends our church. He's 91, 92. Almost 92 years old, yes. He pastored for 60 years and he comes to church with a notebook. Yeah. Like what sermon has he? I'm not gonna blow that guy's mind, right? He's been doing it for so long. And then he'll come talk to me in the lobby and he'll go, Well, you did it again. I go, What are you talking about? I have never heard that in the word before. You taught me something today, Pastor. I mean, you know, the guy pastored longer than I've physically been alive on the earth. Yeah. 65 years, I think it is. Yeah. And he's still teachable. Yeah. I get I think about your question to the Ephesian church. He gives the longest list of good things they're doing. He said, I know your works, your toil, your patient endurance. You can't bear with those who are evil. You've tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, found them to be false prophets. I know you are enduring patiently, you're bearing up, you're doing all for my namesake, and you've not grown weary. That's a long list of way to go. You're doing a lot of great things. You use the word sleepwalking. They're walking in in a way that all of us would say, I want to do all those things. Yes. He said, Here's my only problem. You have abandoned the love you had at first.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:And that word of abandon is where we get the idea of drift. That's exactly right. I just kind of I focused on the what I'm doing instead of who I'm doing it for, who I'm doing it with. And you made the comment earlier that it's not, it's not a wake up one day and just flip the switch. Yeah. Sometimes trauma can do that to people or some kind of abuse where they go, forget it, I'm out. Yeah. But I would question the veracity of that intimacy before anyway. Sure. But intimacy with the Lord, at least anyway. Because God's not the one who does bad things to you, even when his people do bad things to you. Correct. I just want to throw that out there. However, it's it's usually a slow burn. Yeah. It's it's an abandon, a drift away. We get distracted by other things. Yep. And then we can so easily be sleepwalking because we're still doing the right things. I mean, that's a great list. Your works and toil, patient endurance. You've tested false prophets and apostles. You're enduring patiently, bearing up, and he says, For my name's sake, which I've interpreted, yeah, I think I said it in the sermon. I said, You're doing it all in Jesus' name. Yep. Making his name great. Right. Yeah. But you just don't love me first. Yeah. So that sleepwalking idea, that motif I think shows up actually a few times in these seven letters. And it's part of the problem Jesus had with people throughout his gospels. You know, you're whitewashed tombs. You have an outward appearance of righteousness, and you you you you you cross every T and dot every I. You, you, you literally measure out every grain of seed to pay your tithes. Right. You do it exactly right. Yep. But you don't love me. Yeah. Your heart's far from me. And that's that I think that's a constant temptation for us. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:100%.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's something that we have to war with, Emily, to your question. Look, we're in we're in a church with an incredible story. I mean, God's done a lot of great things here. And it's easy to get 15 years of living in this story and just kind of coast and be like, man, look what the Lord has done and it's fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:But you can also get callous to it too. You can get callous to the good.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06:And so if like, can y'all speak on to the person who is listening to this that is like, I'm here, I'm doing the thing, attempting to read my Bible and to pray, but I'm just like, I'm not really getting excited over a first time guest walking through the door. I'm not really getting excited whenever, you know, I, you know, if anything, I'm getting irritated because I'm pushing through a crowd of family members who their loved ones are getting baptized in the lobby, and that's causing I mean, that's that's that's that's real. Can y'all speak to those people who are like, I see it, I'm drifting, I'm calloused, I want to go back. I just don't know how.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's funny you asked that question because I think it's a great segue into Revelation 3, verse 3, when Jesus gives them really sort of this four four part. He says, Remember what you have received, remember what you've heard, keep it, and repent. And I think to your point, the guard against callousness is to remember what you've received personally from the Lord. And you know, that's where Pastor Mike, I mean, you you was on fire. Like, hey, what have you received? Well, you've received the gospel, you received salvation, you re- you I I've received life change, but I've also received the mission of God and the partnership of God. I get to do this. I've received the an invitation from the Lord to join him on his mission to save people. Like God Jesus don't need me at all. He doesn't need Willie Simpson. And then he says, What you've received and what you've heard, and keep it. And I think that is the, I mean, for me personally, I think that's how you guard against that callousness. And to the person that feels like you've fallen asleep or like, man, this just doesn't excite me. Can I just invite you? Can I challenge you to pause and remember what you have received? Your own salvation, that is not a boring testimony. You may not have the story of being found half dead in the gutter with a needle in your arm, but you were hellbound. You were dead in your sin. You were an enemy of God, and he saved you. He gave you new life. If there were a dead body in this room and they all of a sudden came back to new life, none of us would be ho hum about that. But that's our story. We were dead in our trespasses, and we've been made alive in Christ. That right there would be enough to reinvigorate me and remove any callousness that began to try to grow over my heart. So I, you know, that that's I think that's the first way is to do what Jesus said. Remember what you received. Like, man, that is amazing. I've received access, you said, to my heavenly father. Prior to that, I couldn't hear from the Lord. I didn't have the spirit. How can I hear from God? What is it, Romans 8? How can one understand the Lord unless the spirit of the Lord is in him? I can't deserve, I don't even know how to pray. But that's what I've received. Like, man, that's awesome. And then on a Sunday, I we're receiving people that you've said it over and over, Pastor Mike, that God is entrusted to us. Man, there are, I don't even know, dozens, hundreds of churches in our city and in our county. God's like, nope, I'm I'm gonna put it on their heart to drive right by your church and pull them in your parking lot. God, thank you so much. Thank you. Awesome. I will park across the street and risk getting splattered by traffic because there's a single mom coming in here who's like, this is the last I drove by because I Googled churches and life point popped up. Man, yeah, thank you, God. I'm gonna remember that. I'm getting fired up right now, just thinking about it. And that this is 30 seconds of me yapping my mouth. So let's remember what we have received and then let it let everything snowball off of that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Praise the Lord. Yeah, I think too, I think there's we've I you know, we've talked a lot about asking the Lord, praying for the Lord to search. But I just think there's something too about if you are in that place, I think there's just power in confessing. And I, you know, at Austin P on Sunday at the end, after Pastor Mike prayed and we came back in the room, I just invited people. We had our prayer team down front, and I just invited people, I said, Hey, maybe a first step for you if you feel like, gosh, you've grown cold in your faith, you've fallen asleep, you're dead, and maybe the Lord's dealing with you on some stuff. One of the greatest things you could do right now is go tell somebody about that and receive some prayer, receive some next steps. Right. And so I think sometimes we have to get to that place. I always I've always heard it said, I mean, when when it pertains to sin specifically, but God can't heal what you hide.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I just think sometimes if you know, if you know that you're in that place, if if you become aware of that, sometimes it is again, sometimes it's sitting down with somebody else in a care appointment, sometimes it's confessing, hey, I'm in this place and allowing somebody else to speak in to help kind of get you moving in the right direction again. Sometimes you need that.
SPEAKER_02:I I appreciate those answers. I I think I'm I get really uh fired up in my response to your question, but but it sounds really harsh. I agree with what you guys are saying uh completely. It grieves me a lot at the thought of anybody getting to a point where what God's doing in his church frustrates you. It really grieves me personally, and I don't have a ton of patience for it if I'm being very candid. And part of it's my perspective of begging God in the front field when I moved here. Please send people to this church. Yeah, begging God in prayer. I remember I'd walk that field, I work here alone, and I'd say, God, fill it up, fill it up. Lord, I moved here to lead a church, and he's lit, we're living in the answer to prayers that I prayed alone for a long time. And I still pray. I still don't think we got enough people. I don't think Realize Sango has enough people living hope. I think every church should be so full. And the idea that anybody would come to get their church fill and then complain because of those things, it's a sign of the condition of that person's heart. And that needs to be evaluated. This is really blunt. I'm just being really honest. I I've known people who spent$10,000 to$15,000 to take their family to Disney World and stay on the park, and then you get back and you go, How was your trip? Oh my gosh, the lines were awful. It was hot. Oh, it was miserable. I'm like, wait a minute. On the front end of this thing, it was the world of magic. You couldn't wait to go. You literally took off from work. You spent either on credit or you saved forever to do this. I've been on a cruise boat and watched people complain about eating the lines, you know, just taking too long in the in the restaurants. And I'm like, you're on a billion-dollar water city being handed food. You don't even have to cook it. Yeah. And it took three minutes too long, and you're mad about that? I mean, I just I think complaints in general are often fueled by selfishness. Yeah. And and that is part of the drift of the human condition.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:We want ours, and I don't want to be inconvenienced. Like I hate waiting in lines. I've joked about that before. I've joked, I've said it plain out. Like I'll go sit on an airplane. You know, I buy a seat, a ticket, I get a seat assigned to me, and then I hate standing in line. I get frustrated, like, why do I have to stand in line on an assigned seat? I paid for it. I'm not gonna steal anybody else's seat. Yeah, and I'm not gonna sit anywhere else. And I paid for that seat. And then Stephanie is like, you know, you're sitting on a$10 million tube to go through space, you know, and go from one coast to the other in four and a half hours. Just let it go. Like, perspective really helps. And I think selfishness is one of the worst ways to just live your life. Yep. You know what I'm saying? We we pay for$250 a month for cable and go, there's nothing on TV. I hate television. You know what? Like we just find room to complain. And it grieves me the most of all, though, Emily, back to your question. And if that's your condition of your heart, then I I want to invite you to humble yourself and ask the Lord to search me and know me, like you're saying, Jordan. And if selfishness is the thing that God is revealing in you, I mean, to be upset about the crowd of people trying to get a parking spot, to get into the room, to have an encounter with Jesus and be mad about that. Yeah, I don't get that. I just don't understand. I don't have a lot of if I'm the guy in the parking lot getting yelled at over the parking issues, I don't have a lot of sympathy. You know what I'm saying? Which is why I'm not on the parking lot team. Yep, fair enough. Um, or if I'm mad about kid point check, I get that it's frustrating. Right. But the frustration is literally thousands of people are coming to meet the Lord. Yeah, right. What else is there to be busy with? Yeah, yeah. You know, so Disney World cruises, go to a Tennessee football game. Yeah, 108,000, you know, people put on their orange and paint their face and put the flags on their cars and drive in and then go, I can't find a park. I hate this. This is the worst in the world. Yep. Go into the crowd and then you're sitting in a seat watching a game with 100,000 people and just mad the whole time because you're either in full sun or it's raining, or they're winning too much. This is the greatest. They're winning so much. I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_06:I'm bored. Wow.
SPEAKER_02:I'm bored I'm leaving because they're winning so good. That's the greatest. Tennessee played a game a couple weeks ago and they played this team. They just destroyed them. Yeah. Austin P had a game like that recently, too. The the stands empty out. I paid for a ticket. I'm gonna sit there for the whole game. Yeah, every snap. I went to my first professional baseball game ever, it was a White Sox game during grad school. We had a class in Chicago and we got tickets given to us. And I love baseball. It's my my favorite sport to watch is baseball. So we're sitting in out in left field, and then they were getting, it was the year after the White Sox won the national championship, the World Series. And so they're playing Kansas City Royals, who was just whooping them to death. Yeah, yeah. The stadium's emptying out. The guys with me are like, let's get out of here. This is lame. I go, absolutely not. There's nine innings, and I'm driving. We ain't leaving. We were gifted tickets to watch World Series champions lose, and I'm gonna watch them lose gloriously. And so I think selfishness as a human condition has to be checked because honestly, anything will be a complaint. People pray for kids, pray for kids, have kids, and go, these kids are a nightmare. I can't. Why did God give me these kids? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So you have to have perspective. This church in particular, we're living in the answer of so many prayers that you didn't even pray. Yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now that's a word right there, Pastor. I'm thinking about Freddie T over at real life. They're they're pushing fourth service, and people are like, they built too small, they're not big enough, you know, they need more place. It's so frustrating going to church there. I'm like, dude, I've been with Freddie T talking about dreams for that place. Yeah. And y'all are living in his dreams, not yours, for that church. And I think the Lord's so excited when his church is crowded. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think gratefulness.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry if that answers to like in your face. Well, I just think what selfishness will never be your spiritual gift. I'm gonna tell you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I think how you I think how you flip that is gratefulness. Yeah. I mean, developing a heart and attitude of thanksgiving, yes, remembering. Remembering, right? Well, I mean, that really is. Yeah. I mean, remembering is being thankful for who you for who you are in Christ, for what God's done for you. Right. And I just think I think our we live in Western Christianity where comes back to that suffering thing. Yes. We call this suffering. Yeah, right. I gotta park across the street. Oh, what would we do? I just think we ex we have this expectation sometimes. We we show up to church as Christians and we just expect to receive and get. And and if I'm not entertained enough, if something's getting in my then it it's frustrating to me, you know. And I I don't know, I struggle with that. I think I think we gotta be really careful, right? You know, especially in our Western Christianity, with just how comfortable and how expect like we just expect to have these things, you know, when we come to church, you know. I expect to get a cup of coffee when I come in and go into the and and when you start to develop that heart and that attitude of I'm expecting to get and what's the church doing for me, right? And how am I getting fed? Yeah, and am I leaving full? And am I and and a lot of that's just a consumer Christianity, man. If people show up, people show up. I mean, I don't even know what percentage of church, I won't say 100%, because we have amazing teams of people that show up every Sunday and across ministries that come serve selfishly.
SPEAKER_02:Amazing people.
SPEAKER_01:But the amount of Christians that live their Christian life or show up to church on Sunday is what can the church do for me? Right. Yeah. What can what can what can they do for me? And that's just a scary place to be in. Absolutely. Is it a sign?
SPEAKER_02:Is it a sign of drift? Is it a sign 100% that's leading you to become active reputation but dead inside? Yes. Which is where the sermon actually landed. I I kept saying, Life One has an active reputation. Yeah. The question is, what about you? Correct. Yeah. And and I think the question you're asking, some of those are symptomatic of a person who's maybe drifting, selfish, entitled, yeah, or dead inside, actually. Yeah. Yeah. There's no fire for the things that God's doing in his church.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And nobody drifts there on accident. No. Pastor Rod Lloyd talks about a blessing. When a blessing is repeated, it becomes expected. When something's expected over time, it becomes an entitlement. So he shares this story in one of his podcasts. He said, One year, uh, this young lady made me a pan of rice krispie treats for my birthday. He said, I love rice crispy treats. They're the best. Then the next year, she made me another pan of rice crispy treats. And I thought, oh wow, two in a row. This is amazing. Third year, he expected rice crispy treats. Yep. I'm gonna get rice crispy treats from her on my birthday.
SPEAKER_03:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And then one year they didn't come and he got upset because he was entitled. Wow. So what starts as a blessing becomes an expectation can become entitlement. Yep.
unknown:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:And we have to always guard against entitlement. Like none of us are owed anything here. This is all the grace of God to move on. These buildings can be knocked out by tornadoes, fire, cars running into them. I mean, at any time, these buildings and this air conditioning and this studio and this the having the preacher that you like in the pulpit. I mean, all of that is just for now. Yep. Every one of us is we cannot, man, fight against entitlement. I think that's actually a condition of the heart that leads you to drift, stale, or dead if you're entitled. Yeah. That is. I'm trying to bring it back around to the the teaching in Sardis. You know, you have a reputation of being very much alive. Yeah. But hey, I I didn't mean to sound rebukey, but maybe I did. I just want to say as a pastor of this church, please like check your heart on this entitlement stuff. Yeah. And don't ever get frustrated because God is entrusting more people to the church that you attend. Well, our our kid point check-in lines, our traffic problems. Yeah. I just want to tell everybody just humbly, I prayed for all of this. Yeah. Come on. Thank God for every every single complication that it brings.
SPEAKER_01:But I think as Christians, I mean, this is Jesus is writing to He's writing these letters to churches, to Christians. Correct. And there it's some of it's rebuke. Yeah. And I think in our Christian walk and our relationship with the Lord, like Okay, fine.
SPEAKER_02:We have to sound rebukey. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's what I'm saying. I'm trying to tell you. Yes. We need to be able to do that. Don't rebuke me, Jordan, for not rebuking. You rebuked us, I'll let me rebuke you. Yeah, yeah, I'll take it. We no, we need to be open to that. Yeah. I think all of us, I mean, all scripture is, you know, breathed out by God. That's right. Useful to correct, teach, rebuke, train, all that. And I think, I think we need to be open and receptive to being rebuked. And so I think, thank you for saying that. Because I think, gosh, we're, yeah, Jesus wrote this to Christians.
SPEAKER_06:Yes. I think we've become too soft. I'm just I'm being very real as Christians because we are entitled to the oh, I want you to make me feel alive.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_06:And so it's on you, not me. And that's that entitlement of, no, I want to be a toddler, but I, you know, I'm I'm appearing to be a toddler Christian, but really I've still got the bottle in my mouth. I'm still a bait, and I'm not even I like I want you to try to feed me with that.
SPEAKER_02:Now you're in the book of Hebrews. Listen, yeah, listen. Hebrew six.
SPEAKER_06:But it is one of those things. Like I, and because I think that we as just a culture and as a what as as our Western culture, like we have become entitled to thinking that that's what we're owed. And that any time that somebody goes, no, we have an issue with it. And so I thought that's a whole different thing.
SPEAKER_03:Because of our inner Jezebel. Ooh, come back to that. Come on. Oh, Jezzy. She done reared the ugly head again. Oh, Jezzy. And that's just a bit.
SPEAKER_02:Did you know Bo Jensen's starting a new business?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh Jensen, Jezebel Hunter. Yes. He's a K-pop demon hunter.
SPEAKER_03:That was hilarious.
SPEAKER_02:It's part of our strong men's night.
SPEAKER_03:I fell out when he said that. K pop demon Jesse. Oh, Jesse and Bale Hunter.
SPEAKER_02:You're right, though, Emily. We don't like no.
SPEAKER_06:We don't like knowing.
SPEAKER_02:We don't like to be discomfort. We don't like change. Yes.
SPEAKER_06:We don't like honest rebuke that is accurate.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Which is part of being a living church. Yes. Yes. A church alive has to be correctable. Absolutely. 100%. It has to be shaped by the Spirit of God. And if and here's the thing, if it's something that the Lord is calling out, who are we to push back on the Lord? Amen. Maybe find a preacher that's not going to call me out.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know that that's a living church. Yeah. Right. Maybe it is. I don't, I don't know. I'm I'm I don't want to get into calling out churches ever, but I want to be a part of a church that holds me accountable. Yeah. Amen. 100%.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And to that end, just as we're kind of wrapping up here, you know, ultimately, thus far as we, you know, we're we're inside us, we're gonna we're gonna jump into Philadelphia this Sunday. Jesus is warning the church because his motivation is love for the churches.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:So and their witness. And their witness. So so he's being re confrontive because he's saying, Hey, I don't want this to be the outcome for you. Right? Like he says here, if you do not, let me see here, verse three, remember then what you have received and heard. Keep it and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. That is so loving. Because he on the front end is warning them here is the implication of your continued deadness, your continued sleepwalking. Here's the implication. You won't be prepared for my return. And that won't that won't bode well for you. So what a mercy and kindness from our savior to rebuke us. Hey, what a mercy and kindness from our savior to send people in our lives that rebuke us. Man, what a kindness to send someone in my life who says, Hey, Willie, you have something in your teeth, and you need to know that.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Thank you. Because ultimately, like you said, this affects the witness of Sardis. The church at Sardis, this affects their witness. Yep. So I I don't want to be rebuked for the sake of saying, oh man, thanks. No, it's so I remain an effective witness for Christ. I remain an effective leader in my household. And to anyone who is really wrestling with that, with the rebuke, and you just don't frankly like what you've been hearing, I want you to think about the people that God has entrusted to you that will benefit from your teachability and your humility and your repentance. Think about how they will benefit and be blessed. Why? Because you, I am blessed because of the humility and the repentant heart of my pastors and leaders. I benefit from the fact that you stay on your face before the Lord. I benefited from the fact that you gave us a word this year. It was going to be a year of anointing, a year of movement, a year of multiplication, and a year of ministry to men. I benefit from that because you're hearing from the Lord. So I want to pass that forward. And say, man, God, if I remain humble and teachable and rebukable, how does my wife benefit? How do my children benefit? How do the ministries that I've been given oversight of, how do they benefit? It's always about people. It's always about the one more. It's always about them. So what a kindness from our God to do that. Thank you, God, for rebuking me. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, God, for checking me and sending Pastor Jordan to say, Willie, brother, you got toilet paper on your shoe, man. Hey, thank you, brother. Yeah. Thank you for waking me up because I was getting cowused. Thank you. Oh, it hurts. It hurts to rip off a callus, but thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Yep. I love how Jesus gives them direction. And he could have just stopped and said, Here's what I need you to do. Repent, remember, do this. Period. Yes. And I almost wonder if there's just a pregnant pause there for us to go, okay, I'll do that. And that would have been the end. You know, I love if I correct my kids and they go, okay, dad, yes, sir. But the other side of it is you have to bring that, hey, if you don't do it this way, there is a consequence to your actions. I'm not here to hurt you. I'm here to give consequences for your behaviors. And he he does both. He didn't start with a consequence. I can't believe, man, I'm gonna punish you and then bring the opportunity for correction. He gives them the opportunity to self-correct. And then he says, and let me just be clear with you as well. This is also loving. Hey, if you don't do it my way, I'm the Lord of this church. This is my church. I hold the stars, I'm walking among my landstands. Yep. If you don't do it my way, here's what I'm gonna do as a result of that. By the way, he he doesn't say I'm gonna smite you. He says I'm gonna come and remove my stand from you. I mean, there's judgment coming for this. And uh, you don't even know when the judgment's gonna come.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, be like a thief.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, but he offers the correction first. Yeah, the the the repent and remember, and same with all these letters, like do it this way, but this is better. But if you won't do it my way, I guess I'm not the Lord of you. So don't expect me to be. Yep. Don't expect me to be around you. Yep. Amen. And that's loving. Yes, it's kind, yes, it is. It is kind.
SPEAKER_01:It's the heart of our Savior. Yes, amen to that.
SPEAKER_02:It's the kindness of the Lord that leads us to repentance. Come on, Romans.
SPEAKER_01:And like, and like you said, Pastor Willie, that that whole rebuke, I mean, really is for the benefit, not only of for them, but also for the world that and I just think, man, we are no good to a world that we're trying to reach if we're asleep. Amen. And so I think I think that has to move. There's a risk involved here. Sure. If you if you choose to stay asleep in your faith, dead in your faith, you're at risk for gosh, not allowing other people around you to come to know Jesus. I mean, there's a risk to that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So Amen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, hey, family, thank you all, Pastor Mike, Pastor Jordan, Emily. Thank you guys for hopping on, taking time out of your day. This was an amazing, fruitful conversation. And and my prayer is that this has been uh helpful and fruitful for you. Want to encourage encourage you to take this information, this revelation, absorb it, pray about it, process it with other people in your life. And until next time, we love you guys. Peace out.
unknown:Bye.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I know.
unknown:Bye.
Elmer Cañas Jr.
Host
Willie Simpson
Host
Emily Himes
Co-host
Tiffany Tackett
Co-host
Jordan Smalley
Guest
Mike Burnette
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