The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Real conversations on worship, leadership, and living a faith-filled life beyond the platform. Hosted by leaders from LifePoint Church, this podcast is here to inspire, equip, and challenge you—whether you’re leading in ministry, in the marketplace, or just learning to lead yourself well.
The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Build People, Not Clones: Let Go So Others Grow
What if legacy isn’t about titles or tenure, but about who becomes stronger because you were there? We sat down with Pastor Jessica Meriwether and Dr. Tim Hager to tackle the real work of building a legacy of faith—at home, at church, and in the spaces where career and calling collide. Starting with Paul’s charge to Timothy, we trace how truth gets entrusted across generations and why conviction beats compliance when raising kids and developing leaders.
If this episode encouraged you, follow the show, share it with a friend who influences the next generation, and leave a review telling us one practice you’re passing on this year.
What's going on, everyone, and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast. And my name is El McCundy Jr. And like always, my man Willy C. Simpson. What is going? What's going on, Junior?
SPEAKER_00:Man, I'm doing great, Junior.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, one junior to another. One junior to another. Come on. And we're excited to be on the podcast today. And thank you for joining us. And uh today we're speaking about something really awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:About we're talking about legacy and we're talking about leadership and family.
SPEAKER_00:How to impact future generations, man. It's gonna be great. Gonna be good.
SPEAKER_03:And like always, we have some guests. We have a podcast joining us today.
SPEAKER_00:Some awesome guests. Over here to my left. She really is like my sister. Let me just say this. On staff, I didn't grow up with sisters. And this one over here, she's like my sister. Straight up and down. She's awesome. Y'all give it up for Pastor Jessica, Merriweather.
SPEAKER_04:How's everybody?
SPEAKER_00:Come on, somebody. Good to see you, sis.
SPEAKER_04:Big bro.
SPEAKER_00:Yo, yo, yo. Over here to my right. He is 100% one of the smartest people that I know personally. And I flex his name all the time. Like what Dr. Tim says, something you gotta do. Y'all give it up for member of our lead team, Dr. Tim Hager. Good to be here today. Thank you, Dr. Tim.
SPEAKER_03:Last time Dr. Tim was on the podcast, we had um we asked, well, we were talking about something we said Yoda Stein. We did, yeah. Yodastein. Do you remember that? And then we even said, like, hey, if you if you know someone should throw that in AI and submit it. And people actually they started doing it. And I actually had someone send it again yesterday. They sent us like we couldn't leave this in the comments. Yes. But that's been your Yodastein. You're known out in the podcast world as Yoda Stein. Yoda. Oh boy. Dr.
SPEAKER_00:Tim Hager, aka Yoda. Yoda Stein. Come on. We gotta update his lower third. His lower third.
SPEAKER_01:I need an emoji created for me. Okay. I don't know what that would look like. That's all you gotta say.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, too easy. It's done. It's done. Too easy. They're working on it right now. It's Slack. It'll be updated here in about 34 minutes.
SPEAKER_03:Oh man. Well, we're excited you guys are here. And let's jump into this conversation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So again, you know, thinking through legacy. You're thinking, you know, obviously when you think legacy, that's generations that's down the line, that's playing the long game, long game, that's not getting stuck in the present. It's really, you know, planning for those that are coming behind you. And so, you know, I obviously we want to start with looking through scripture because the Bible has a lot to say about legacy. You know, there are, you know, many different books of the Bible that contain genealogies, and those are there for a reason to see how God faithfully uses future generations to accomplish his good and perfect will. Like all of us are Christians because there were generations in the past that that preserved and protected that messianic seed. And so God is all about legacy, he's all about generations. So looking at scripture, 2 Timothy chapter 2, starting at verse 1, really, this is Paul writing to Timothy, he's a young pastor. He's a he could he keeps calling him a son in the faith, and here he addresses him, you then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus. Verse 2 And what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses, entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. I love that verse too. He says, Well, you've heard from me. So he's there's already this discipleship relationship, this mentor relationship, this dynamic that Paul has with Timothy, and he says, Entrust that to faithful men, to faithful leaders. Why? So they can teach others also. This he Paul is already thinking past the relationship between him and Timothy. Hey, this is for those down the line who will teach others. So the question becomes what does this passage teach us about the impact and the priority of generational discipleship? Dr. Tell, I'd like to start with you and then Jess will toss to you.
SPEAKER_01:I th I think the thing that stands out to me about that is it's both a very intentional process while we're walking with the Lord that we're also intentionally doing the passing. That it's not just about us, it's about who's behind us that we can listen to, probably mentors, but then also who's ahead. So it's intentional, but also the faithfulness of that over generation after generation after generation of why it's so important. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:That's really good. I I really just think of just passing it on, just like you said, and it reminds me of like my grandmother's recipes. And if she didn't teach them to anybody else, then they're gone.
SPEAKER_00:Come on, ain't nobody eating.
SPEAKER_04:Like because my grandma, she didn't write it down. It's all in her head. So if she's not teaching it to somebody, then it's you know, she passed away and they're gone. Luckily, you know, she taught them to my aunt and she taught them to my mom, even though she would leave out like an ingredient, you know. But if you know, if we are not passing the gospel on to others to the next generation, what you know, what happens? You know, come on. Fizzle?
SPEAKER_03:Come on now. And we see that in scripture where you have a king, you know, a lot in the old testament where you have kings that would rise up and they would put God at the forefront, you know, they'd bring the nation back to the Lord, and then all of a sudden, as the next generation right rises, you know, sin pulls the people of Israel away from God Himself, and and idolatry sneaks in. And and so there's a lot to that that if we were very passive with certain things, and in this case, we're talking about faith, if we're passive with our faith, even with our own children, and like, oh, they'll be all right. They're they're in church, they're they're around us enough. They're you know, us specifically working in a church environment and offices. Oh, yeah, they're here, you know, they're in church pretty much Fridays out of the week, you know, as much as we are. And we think that the environment is raising them. You know, there's people that bring their kids to church one Sunday a week, and for that one hour, they think that that's their discipleship and their spiritual formation when it's it's it's beyond just what happens in church. It's it's we gotta raise children up, right? So there's intentionality like Pastor Tim said.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I was thinking, you know, we were talking right before, you know, we went live with the podcast, and I was talking about the importance of not just the impact but of the teaching, but like what are we teaching? And so that's true, right? And we live in a day and age that there has been an increase in the number of voices that assert that what they teach is the truth.
SPEAKER_02:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:And during our staff chapel, we do our staff chapel twice a month on Tuesdays. I was just kind of ruminating with our team about how like the back third of our Bible seems to devote a lot of emphasis to the importance of knowing the truth because of this increase in false teaching. So, Jess, you know, you and and Pastor Jere are our campus pastors here at Ross Street, but you also oversee our student ministries. And so our students, our children, you would agree, are probably among the most vulnerable in our society, you know, to this false teaching. So can you just kind of speak to when we talk about this generational discipleship, the importance of the generations that are ahead of us knowing the truth as it's revealed in God's word?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Just think about you're talking about outside influences and stuff like that. And social media is so big because it's it's telling you you can do you can do this, you can be this, you can do all these things. And you know, we have conversations with students, and it's like, you know, what does God's word say? And if it's not modeled at home, you know, we're we're trying on Wednesdays and Sundays, and you know, we're trying to pull these kids along, but a lot of times it's really hard if it's not modeled and seen at home. You know, parents are just dropping their kids off on a Wednesday night and they're not bringing them on Sunday. The parents aren't involved, the parents aren't in a small group. So you just have to think about, you know, I always tell our small group leaders, like, hey, you might be the only one that's speaking life into these kids that is showing them scripture, teaching, you know, things in the Bible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And it's that's tough. Like that's a tough thing to think about. Like, hey, on Wednesday, I'm the only one that's gonna speak truth to this kid. And so I just think about, you know, from generation to generation, like we can start changing that with the kid that parents aren't parents aren't here, parents aren't involved, parents aren't in in church. Like, you know, what can we speak to these kids on Wednesdays and Sundays? How can we pull them along so that they're hearing the gospel? They know that is the truth, not everything they see around them.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so good.
unknown:Dr.
SPEAKER_00:Temmon, I'm gonna throw it to you and and reorient that question in in your role, you know. I've I've loved getting a chance to spend a lot of time with you and learning a lot about your years of experience prior to serving on our team, and so you have been able to be a part of large-scale organizations that have generational impact. And how have you seen the effect of poor leadership or good leadership as it pertains to leading according to God, you know, God's word, or or their the shape of that? How have you seen how that's impacted the way that that organization will move and serve the people?
SPEAKER_01:That's really a good question. Uh, there was uh one organization I went into and I took it upon myself to basically get discipled a bit. I had gone around and they were, I don't think there was anybody that was younger than me. And I went through multiple layers of the organization all the way up to the top, and I just asked them about one question that had to do with those who have come to this organization and have had successful ministry, what were their characteristics? And then what were the characteristics of people that came in and they had short tenures and chose to leave? And then what would what would be the the things that would help me make a substantial contribution during the season God had me there? So I had I I got I had pages of notes out of this, and um, I kind of used it as a culture document, but but I learned so much in that to be able to lay over the things the way I was going to be, the things I needed to accept as just the way things worked, and it also gave me a long-range view because some of these people had been in there for decades and with global impact. And so in in that particular season, I was able to help other people. And the matter of fact, at this national conference that we were just at here earlier this year, I had two different people catch me and say, Do you remember when you said? And I had just given them a nugget of of advice saying, if you see this, accept that as being the Lord and an opportunity. But just remember when that little window closes, here's what's likely going to happen, but stay focused on your calling and what you're doing here. And and they came up and they said, said, Remember when you said that? And I sort of remembered uh the the context and saying those things. So it helped them substantially. But I had to learn those things myself. And I want to go back to what Jess had mentioned. It's really fun in this season right now with my kids that uh we had grown up and we were uh in the in the church and engaged them. And we did our best. We weren't perfect parents, but they were here. We also did, we were engaged spiritually at our own homes. But now, as they are in adulthood, to be able to go back to particular key moments that were big for them when they were students or they were even kids and some pivotal times in our family history, and then add in the conversation about what they saw back then, their perspective, and say, Let me tell you some other things that were happening, and then weave God, His word into it, or character decisions, or value decisions that we made, how we are having to trust God and just step out and to then see their eyes light up and say, you know, I always wondered what you and mom are thinking about that, or how is God leading us in that as a family? And and it just is so rich.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Yeah. That's so good. I love it. Man, that that's rich right there. Wow. So just thinking through you know, personal experiences, you know, again, regarding generational thinking ahead gener generationally speaking. I I I do kind of want to stay on that family piece. That that's I appreciate you saying that, Dr. Tim. Jess, I'm curious for from your perspective, how do you feel in your family? You got a family of six, you know, you passenger A. And then you what are you calling that? You got to get it. Not six kids. No, I said you're a family of six.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you and Jeree.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And four. And then you got four. Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Now I'm from LA, Lower Alabama. But my math tells me that's six. So you call them the eighteen.
SPEAKER_02:The eighteen, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So how do you uh build this legacy of faith in in your family? What what does that look like?
SPEAKER_04:Honestly, I I like I I just try to lead by example to my kids. We just have a lot of conversations and shout out to Dre, because he is way more patient than I am to just explain things. And it's we always try to lead the kids back to the truth, you know, to God's word. I know there's like my oldest is in high school now, yeah, and she's 14 and she's sassy, and she gets that from me. I was a little bit sassy when I was in high school too, because I was always right. And so sometimes I see a little bit of that in her. She's really sweet though. And I see a little bit of that in her. And I just always try to remind her. She's made the comment to me before, well, she she's told her friends that, you know, me and her dad are really strict. And she told her friends, like, my parents are really strict. And I'm like, explain that to me. Like, what do you? And she's like, Well, like, you know, I can only have certain apps and I can only do certain things, and you know, I can't have TikTok. And so she's, you know, kind of laying some of those things out. And I'm looking at her friends and I'm like, well, a lot of your friends have those. And you were telling me about this one friend, and did she get in trouble at school? And like, I'm not saying she got in trouble because she had, you know, TikTok, but I'm like, think about what's influencing her. What is she listening to? You know, we don't listen to those kinds of things. And like, you know, that my twins talk about kids that are like, you know, saying bad words on the bus, and they're like, we don't talk like that at home. And I'm like, exactly. And so I talk to my kids, like, hey, you know, what is our what is our theme of students? We live different. So like we're not fitting in. We live different, we stand out, not in a bad way, in a good way. Like I want kids, like I tell my kids all the time, I want other kids to look at you and like there's something about you that's different. I was like, that that's what's mattered. Like your character matters. Like, what are you doing when nobody is looking at you? And I'm like, I tell the kids all the time, I'm like, if you see me and dad at church, you see me and dad at home, are we the same all the time? And they're like, absolutely. Like, that is what I want my kids to see. Yeah, like I want to model that, and I also want them to model, hey, if mom mess up, dad mess up, hey, I'm so sorry. We did not handle that right. You know, I apologize. How can we do better? Let's move on. And like to me, I think that's the best. Like, I just want to be an example for my kids of hey, this is what a godly wife, mom, friend, sister, like, this is what we're supposed to look like. And then I want you to model that as well.
SPEAKER_03:So good. Yeah. Can I piggyback on that? I think one of the things I love about our church specifically. I I've I've been at different churches, not no shade, but one of the things I love about the culture is that we've we've been taught and and we owe and it not and not so much like because it's being said, right, but the culture itself is that we take care of our families. Yeah, that's right. And so I was actually just having a conversation with someone earlier today on how we recognize that for our children, they did not sign up to do ministry. Yes, they were born into what we get to lead in now, right? And so they could potentially feel the pressure of like easily of, oh, I gotta perform, I gotta live a certain way, or mom and dad are gonna get upset because you know they're in ministry, they're pastors, whatever. And we've protected them, at least, you know, my wife and I, in the sense of when people are like, Oh, they're pastors' kids, you know, oh, you're a pastor's kid, and we've been real intentional to know that that's not an excuse, number one, for them to act up or anything, but that's not their identity. Like they're our children, yeah. They're our you know, we have two boys and a girl, and so they're our children before anything, but my position does is not a label for them, it's not even a label for me because before anything, I tell them I'm I'm a child of God, yeah, and I'm a son of you know, Elmer and Carmen, you know, my parents, and so just the same thing with them. Like, our family comes first in the sense of our relationship. Like, there's no other filters. Like, I don't filter how I speak to my kids because because I'm a pastor, I don't filter how you know how I do certain things. Or there is some music that you know people are like, oh, your kids listen to that, and like, like, yeah, nothing like nothing bad. Right, right. Like, we we we do watch and make sure like that they're not listening to crazy things. We're a musical family, right? Like, so there's a lot of music I've been influenced just growing up with a lot. I used to, you know, back in the 19th century. Michael Jackson, like the vote, no, bro, like bone thugs and hard music, like bum, bump, bum, bum. Like, like Tupac, I'm I'm being honest. Like, I that's what I grew up with growing up, you know, back in in Cali as a as a kid. And I know a lot of you listening, you know, don't don't be hating because you probably heard them too. And and that was the environment I grew up with, but it did not it did not destroy my character, it did not because because I did not allow it, my parents didn't allow it. Yeah, and so what I learned from my parents since we're talking about legacy, is you know, to to learn not not by behavior modification, but to learn conviction. Yes. So I I was never taught like don't do that, don't do that, don't do that. Even if it was said, it was more like is is do you feel okay, like you know, like listening to this, watching this, would the Holy Spirit give you like convict you? Or it was more of those conversations with my parents, and so now with our kids, we're as they're you know, Jordan's a teenager, Emery's about to be a teenager, we we lead them the same way. But this environment that we're in, like I know I know that we don't have that expectation on our kids where like they have to be perfect, right? And so, and I've been in places where it's like you, you know, your wife and your kids have to be at every event, they have to act this way, they have to wear this to church, and it's like you have to look the part on the outside, but not you know, on the inside, you could be a mess. Yeah, and so grateful and thankful for a healthy church that is focused on the health of the individual in the heart, everything from kids to students to young adults to adults, you know, our our main concern and focus has always been you know what's going on on the inside. And so for um for me again, I'm just being transparent, it's been like protecting that because if we're talking legacy, right, you know, in our own lives, you know, it's it's our our children, that's right, you know, and we're pouring into them. And it's not so much legacy in the sense of are they gonna follow in the same career path as us, right? But the legacy of faith. Yes, and that's what it is. You mentioned, you know, yeah the letter to Timothy, yeah, the legacy of faith, and for Timothy to go and share that with others, right? That will share it with others, yes, yes, you know, and so that's that's the goal, and so it's not so much do they like the same things that I like? Because they might not like. You know, they listen to different things today, like my kids listen to some music. I'm like, what's that? And but they love it, they love it. I'm like, okay, great. Yeah, you know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Real quick side note, like my daughter Destiny, I mean, she's 15, and she, and I I told I mean Carolyn were talking about this. Michael Jackson was born, had his career, and died before Destiny was born. Yeah. And she is one of the biggest Michael Jackson fans that I've ever known.
SPEAKER_04:I love it.
SPEAKER_00:You know what I mean? I mean, and and I said, Destiny, what what's the appeal? She was like, he can, he can sing, and he knows music. And he can dance. And he can dance. That that that's that's my daughter. She she can sing, she knows music, she can dance. Dr. Tim, I I I I want to ask you this question, and it's really informed by something that Elmer you had said right then and then before again, we we started filming. That legacy, it's not, it's it's not this cloning, it's not duplication where wherein our kids are following the exact same career path. We want them to follow the same faith path. And so, Dr. Tim, out of all of us here in the room, your your children are are grown. And I I I want you to really just kind of for us unpack how those deposits generationally of faith have really impacted even their career path. I had the opportunity uh to meet one of your sons, and just the work that he's doing looks vastly different than what you're you're doing now. So can you just kind of unpack that? How you know, again, they're different career paths, but man, that that this that faith seed.
SPEAKER_01:I think for us, there is that component of going back to Psalm 78 where it talks about passing on the word to the next generation and the all the benefits that that has. So I appreciate Elmer's uh contribution there about referring to conviction and heart. We would also weave in the word. They were involved with some programs where they had a lot of Bible memorization and all that growing up. But it's one thing in their peer groups or among their the ministries, the way they're teaching. It's another thing when you're living with other brothers and a sister and you got to fight it out, so to speak, you know, and work life out at home, you know, and all that. But and and to weave that in and so and how that's applying right now. But we always emphasize God's specific stamp and call in their life. God has good plans for them as individuals. And I think God honors that it it is it is created that we we had been a little bit nervous about, you know, as they start going on into college and and getting their career paths, are they going to be able to hang together? Because, you know, a family see where there's kind of a fragmenting happens and then there's not connection and different things like that. But it's interesting because of them growing up together, and really I think the commonality they have in faith together that they also keep together in relationship outside of us. They've got their own threads that they're communicating and talking about. My wife and I and all these things. Oh, you guys have been talking about that? Oh, you know, yeah, yeah, we've been figuring you guys out here a little bit. So anyway, but they have they have done different, they have different career paths. And we had really tried to allow both personality, academic prowess or lack thereof, or athleticism or not, all that play uniquely and not do the comparison type things. Yeah, and then we put constraints on. I mean, we had four of our kids within a decade, so it was a very busy household. And at one point we had, well, one was out to college, but I had three teenagers in the house, you know, and so I mean, it's just the way all that is, and then trying to drive and all this stuff is crazy. But we would limit, actually, we would limit the amount of extracurriculars we were gonna support in order to keep semblance in a busy family of family time, uh, conversation, spiritual conversations together, and that and Lynn was really good at this of really having one-on-ones with with the kids because she read them very well. And we were not gonna get so busy, whether it be running with either marching bands or athletic things or other things that we were so fragmented that they would lose identity and other people would hijack their development and personhood.
SPEAKER_00:So good.
SPEAKER_01:So we we just did that and it kind of crimped some things. For instance, it was just coming in with uh one of our sons, he played soccer, he's quite athletic, and it was just starting that they would start putting games on Sunday. And it just started at that point. Now it's kind of a common thing all over the calendar and stuff. And we just told the coach so we already have commitments on Sunday, so so our our son won't be able to, is not gonna play on those days. That was unheard of at the time, and then we had to explain that uh and all that because he was he was a key player. But all those things are all shaping, yeah, and they're in different types of adventures, and but they're all serving the Lord personally, and some are really accelerating the way they are raising their families, and they plop down and they're tithing right away, they're volunteering right away, and they're right away, you know, getting I mean, they're the ideal people, you know, families that you want to have coming to church.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think so good. When you're talking about raising a family, and and this is key to legacy and leadership, honestly, but when you're talking about raising a family, it's not it's not just providing for your family. I think there's there's a big difference in just in providing, like you know, working hard. That's that's important, you know, working for working hard, providing for family. But raising a family in everything that you just mentioned is being intentional with time and and involvement. Yes, yes, and so like you had to, because it's a value in your home to honor the Lord's day, and we're going to church as a family, you had to get involved in their life if they liked it or not. You know, I I know like Mike's like, but uh, but like no buts. Like this is our this is what we stand for, and you teach them early, and but you got involved, you had the conversation with the coach, so you you had to put face, which means you can't just let your children raise themselves and hope that they follow your path. Like you have to be proactive, intentional.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So good. Um along those lines, again, I that that's thank you, Dr. Tim. That was just so good. And so, Jess, I'm gonna I want to throw it to you because you know, again, right before we were filming, you know, you you had some really good perspective on I did not getting not getting so absorbed in the present that you yeah, you put the future in a back burner, you know. My my neighbor across the street, and I I've I've borrowed this from him, his name is Shavis, but he he has two sons and a daughter, and he would tell his sons, I'm not raising boys, I'm raising men. Like you won't be a boy forever. You will become a man. That's so good. Right? And I mean it's and I'm like, oh yeah. And so how do you, Jess, how do you have this rhythm of being present, but also keeping the future in mind regarding your your your children?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I mentioned earlier Ecclesiastes 3 1, which is fun fact, that's the first scripture I've ever I ever knew. Really? Ever. Yes, I'll tell you a story about that later. But it's like, you know, time for everything, a season for every activity under heaven. And I always just think about just seasons of life and what you know, what season you're in. And you know, like I look back and I always joke that oh, I wish my kids were babies again. Like I want them to be a baby for like one more day. But then I think about it and I'm like, I had four kids under four. Like that was the craziest. I didn't sleep, like we we didn't eat, like it was just wild and crazy kids. Okay, just babies crying and diapers, and I had like three kids and diapers forever, you know.
SPEAKER_02:My lord.
SPEAKER_04:And so I think back and I'm like, wait, maybe I don't want that season. But you know, that was a season, and you know, I knew it wasn't gonna last forever. You know, just like my kids now, the season is not gonna last forever. And I want my kids to be, you know, I want them to get good grades and I want them to play sports and I want them to do all these things, but also I like I want them to follow Jesus. And so I want like I I think about their future and like, hey, you might have made a C. Okay, that's fine, but like, were you kind to somebody in your class? Like, what you know, again, we're talking about character earlier. Like, what is your character like?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I there's a lot of times where I'm like, okay, this is you know, this is a season we're in, looking forward to seasons ahead. I want my kids, you know, to get married and have spouses that follow Jesus. I want their kids to follow Jesus. So what what can I pour into them now? Yeah. They can just last, you know, forever and as we keep going. And I was talking about like there's patience and seeing, like, you know, this fruit in our kids' lives. And we're not gonna see, we're not gonna see it all right now. Like it takes patience and watering and all these things. And you know, I tell our leaders sometimes on Wednesday nights, like, you know, you pour into these kids and then they're gonna graduate and go to college, you might not ever see them again. But you know, what did you sew into them when you had them in front of you? When they were in your small group, what did you say that can last, you know, forever? Yeah, and you know, that that is key. Like, don't just think about right now, but what can I say to these kids that can last forever? Pastor Bo spoke at our students last week, and he talked about his student pastor told him, Man, you're never. Going to mount to anything. Because you know, Bo was he was probably wild and he was you know, a little wild little teenage Bo running around. And his, you know, he said that stayed with him forever, that his student pastor was like, You're not gonna mount to anything. And he said that, you know, when he became a student pastor, his goal was to always tell kids, hey, like I see you, God sees you, like God has a good plan for your life. And and so he's like, I always wanted to pour that into my students, you know, because of what I heard. And I'm like, man, I don't ever want a kid to come away thinking like that I don't think they're great and they God has good plans for their lives.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's so good.
SPEAKER_04:Woo!
SPEAKER_01:Could I jump? I think that's fantastic. One of the things that came to my mind, there were some wonderful young couples with young families when we had our young family together, but with some wonderful families that were also around us and whatnot. And the idea of thinking about not only are we raising our kids to follow the Lord and their character and knowing the word, but we did early start thinking about, you know, we really liked that couple and we connected well, and they've got a daughter, and we got a son over here. So I just wonder, you know, arranged marriage, but yeah, all right. Come on now, but it betrothed them. It did plant the seed of we're raising a son that's gonna be a man, a young man, and be attracted to a girl, and we want a good Jesus girl to be there, and we surely want our guy to be a good Jesus man and have a connection happen. And you know, the likelihood, particularly in our church, we have a lot of transition with people all over going all over the world. But God, if they're gonna get married, there's another family raising a spouse out there for us. And I surely want my boys to be men of God and my daughter to be a woman of God and a excellent mother that loves Jesus and to match up with another family. So all this together is part of this passing along and raising up and and all that that happens. It gets bigger than us and just the stresses of milk being spilled and changing diapers all the time and and and all those things, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, my wife says that all the time. She's like, We're raising, we're raising boys, we're using our daughter to be someone's spouse one day. And she goes, Ah, you know, I want I want my what did she say? I want my daughter-in-law not to say, like, oh, you didn't teach them how to be a man or something like that. Yeah. And so it is a it is one of our It is a motivator. Yeah, it is a motivator. Yeah. My wife, my wife constantly, she'll she'll she'll tell people, our kids are borrowed, like they're not ours to keep. The Lord's allowed us the privilege with of time with them for a season to pour into them, and then they go on and continue on the legacy of what we do. And I know we're talking a lot about our own families, but but legacy also goes beyond just our own household. You know, I think that's that's the staple where we learn to pour into others and invest. But the truth is there are those, like you mentioned, Dr. Tim, where in the context of church or even in a military town like us here in Clarksville, where people, because of careers, because of what they do, they travel. Yes. And so you're not directly with your biological family, right? And so so family becomes the people around you, and the people at your work, the people at your church, at you know, at your military base, all of those things. And so, what does it look like to establish legacy when it's beyond your family? So if it's in the workplace or if it's with relationships, that's great.
SPEAKER_00:What are those types of things? Yeah. Well, I'll I'll jump in.
SPEAKER_04:Join a small group.
SPEAKER_00:Number one, it is joining a small group and joining community. Yeah. I remember hearing from a good friend a couple of years back. He had a he had a big decision to make, and they they moved out of state. And I remember talking with him and saying, Man, like what are you gonna do? Like, how you how are you gonna support your family? And and he and his wife, they were in agreement, and they're like, Man, we just know that God's called us to this. And he made this statement, I'll never forget it. He said that the mission of God is not tied to my zip code. I was like, man, that's good. And I told him right then, Dr. Tim, I said, I'm gonna plagiarize that. I'm just telling you.
SPEAKER_04:Quote from Willie.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just saying, I'm gonna plagiarize it. I said, most people backstab you, I'm gonna stab in your front, brother. But it was just so good. It's my buddy JT. But like he when he said that, I just saw this confidence that he had. Oh yeah. Where he just he just knew the work that God that I get to be a co-laborer with the Lord with, it's not in encumbered by a geographical context. It's just not. And so when we think about that legacy, because and I'm so glad you said that, because if for me, if the vantage point is my W-2, if it's my pay stuff, if it is my local context, then when I move, when the Lord shifts me, then of course I'm going to be despondent and in despair because I'm like, that there's my legacy. Like everything I built, it's right there. And I I am apart from it. But if the great, if I look at the Great Commission as eternal and I look at it as universal, man, then I say, okay, God, you know what? That that assignment's fulfilled. And so that's all part of this beautiful, long, unbroken legacy. It's it's it's here in Clarksville. It's when I lived in Alabama, it's when I was in school in in in Murray, Kentucky.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Well, let's let's maybe let's let's go back a little bit, because it almost sounds like like you're gonna pour a legacy or or establish a legacy based on identity. Would you think that's correct, Dr. Tim? Like if if you're if your investment and your your nest egg is this is who I am, this is what I am, this is what I do. I know people that kind of force their kids into like you're gonna run the business, you're gonna do this, because they've worked so hard to protect themselves and their identity, which is this thing that is temporary, and then they force it upon other people. I don't know. I'm just when you're saying that I'm like, man, that that could be somebody's reality right now that you're in a career that it wasn't your choice, but it was kind of forced upon you because you're building somebody else's legacy. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Dr. Tim, you want to take a stab at that? Because that that's a good thought then. I appreciate you saying that.
SPEAKER_01:I guess for for a believer, our our calling is back to ultimately to him, yes, in service to him, which then would cascade out to then what are the plans he has for me? What's the career path I need to be going in? What how does that need to be expressed? I actually, in in a really hard transition, I had invested a lot of money in in terminal degrees. I had was at the top both age-wise and and uh education-wise, and uh and I ended up finding myself as a ranch hand without any prospects out there into what I'd spent hours and thousands of dollars in training at. And it was out there kind of in the desert that I wrestled down this question to just getting back to the thing. God, if you want me to do this, fix fences, and be completely out of the context of which I have thought I was on, and I've invested significantly in, then I will do it. Wow. And it was that it was that release that chained something inside of me, and it was it was rather quick. It wasn't like lightning struck, but something happened in that release of my life, my career. And ultimately it was just dedication, raw dedication just to him and his direction that he honored that. And it it wasn't too long. There's a whole nother testimonial story about what ended up unlocking down the road. But I think everybody needs to come to that point that ultimately it's I put myself on the altar a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to him, that that's my spiritual act of worship. And then from there, the Lord shapes my desires and plans and opens doors. And if I find myself in a career, it's like, Lord, I felt like I was picked up and forced down this path. God will give direction.
SPEAKER_00:So good.
SPEAKER_01:And frankly, if anyone is out there and they find themselves trapped, feeling trapped, saying, you know, for whatever reason I'm in this thing, God will still use you.
SPEAKER_00:So good.
SPEAKER_01:And then trust Him to shut doors, open new ones, and catapult you out to where he needs to be. I I just believe God is big enough that whatever constraint I feel is just me because he can override all of it and still get his work done through me. Even if I'm in a prison or in a dungeon or I'm caught in a bad job situation, he will still do. I just need to offer myself a living sacrifice. Yeah, come on. And say, Lord, I do have feelings and I've got some other thoughts, but ultimately I'll just do what you need me to do. Oh, this is right here for Dr. Tammy. He's preaching.
SPEAKER_00:He's preaching.
SPEAKER_02:Let me tell you something.
SPEAKER_00:Whether you are a rent hand or a realtor, can you say to God, if this is my portion, it is enough.
SPEAKER_03:Oh man, I we talked about this. We talked about this yesterday. We did, yes. We were in the book of Nehemiah on Sundays, and we were talking about how you know God has a purpose and a plan for everyone, and you're man, you're like, if I'm building fences, man, I could just think of Joseph. Like in Joseph's ob his obedience, yes, like you know, as a slave sold into slavery at Potiforth's house and at Pharaoh's right hand. Yeah. Everywhere he went, yes, he did it as unto the Lord. Yeah, served as unto the Lord with excellence.
SPEAKER_00:With excellence. I I think about Paul, and then just I want you to jump in here. I think about Paul. I mean, at the end of Acts, he says, My life has been poured out as a drink offer. I mean, I just think about looking, he looks back down the quarter of his life and he has gone everywhere. Derby and Lystra, Conium, Rome. And he looks back, and you want to talk about it. He's like, No, Lord, I I poured my life out. I just said, Lord, in advance, here it is. And that's legacy. That's that's legacy. That's legacy. I mean, the faithfulness when you can just trace his life everywhere that he's gone geographically, you know, and he just he just had that one thought, Lord, you have me here to glorify you. That is what I am going to do.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Moses, Joshua. Moses, Joshua, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob. You have all these all these men that in scripture, you know, that took big risks. Even Esther. Esther. You know, the legacy of her people was based on her boldness and the calling that was upon her.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. So so just yeah, just jump in there. Come on, give us some give us some just nuggets.
SPEAKER_04:Legacy isn't rushed.
SPEAKER_00:Oh come on now.
SPEAKER_04:It's in God's timing. That's right. It's in God's timing.
SPEAKER_00:It's in God's timing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Like for so much of my life, like I had a plan. Right. It was my plan. Yeah. I knew what I was gonna do until I retired. And God just flipped my world upside down. And here I am. Come on.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, I'm with you. That's my story.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I remember telling Carolyn the last job that I was at. And I loved it. Because I mean, there was upper mobility. They served in a global context. And I remember my leadership, my boss telling me, hey, we have you on a five-year track of development. It was very clear, it was laid out, it was structured, and I was matriculating through it. And I looked at my office and I said, I will retire from this company. It was great. And to your point, the Lord was like, okay, all right. Crackety cracky.
SPEAKER_04:Let me use you somewhere else. Yep. And it's legacy.
SPEAKER_00:I'm just saying, okay, God. So I do want to ask this question because Elmer, you had brought it up. When we talk about legacy, again, we're talking about for future generations, so we're training a now generation for next. And with that, you have to have the wisdom and the humility to know when sometimes that relationship needs to sunset. You know, Jesus just had that wisdom of empowering those that he led to go and do ministry. You know, he didn't strong arm, he didn't hold on to them tightly, he wasn't selfish, so to speak. So, Dr. Tim, I'll start with you and then Jessica, you know, I'd love for you to follow up. But you know, can can you talk through the importance of of just having to be humble enough to recognize when that you know that kind of mentorship relationship kind of sunsets and you really fully release a person? I mean, you talked about with your with your children, but even in ministry context or professional context?
SPEAKER_01:In in professional context, it's a rare I'd say there's less people that recognize the need for development and leaving things better than when they found them. So I think asking two questions. One, how do I want to be remembered? But how do I want to leave things when I leave? So those two questions really become, and I've already answered those for coming to life point for me. And there's different most of the places that I've gone, we have, and I'm thinking of one that was at at the state level, we actually I knew we were coming down at the five-year mark to I did everything I needed to do. And there was a transition getting ready to happen, and the state official said, let's grab a bite here in the in the kitchen, because we had a staff kitchen there and stuff, and there's only him and me in there. And on the back of a napkin, we actually laid out the next state structure for that office that they moved into after I left, which was a closing of my position, and there was and it was redirecting this whole thing, but it was all set up to make make it happen. But hanging on too long actually can damage what has been prepared for years. And we see that organizationally, unfortunately, in the church world, there's in pastors won't think about that, and they stay well beyond the point of which they really probably should have heard from the Lord and begin bringing a mentor in or getting another one for the next transition, and then the church starts going down. I'm just thinking of one right now that we have some families in and they're watching the church just absolutely collapse. And it's it's I I think it's it's a stay-to-long matter in there, but working that through becomes very, very important.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, sir. Yeah, thank you for that, Dr. Tim. There's a season for everything. That's it, Ecclesiastes.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And two things. One on being led by the the the spirit in a sense of if we have prepared for what do I want to accomplish? And once those lists start getting done and we see the people beginning to flourish or things needing to go to the next level, it is interesting how circumstances come into a way that will speak to us that now's the time. Allow yourself to be released. Yeah. And take those and don't be afraid. I think those steps of faith into new realms, we it's going to be all the way to the end of life. We're going to lay down and we'll be on that bed knowing that we're probably not going to get up and we're not going to be doing any more walking or we're not going to do the run or anything else. My last breaths are coming. I still have to trust that new graduation and path that I'm going to go to. So it doesn't ever stop. And hanging on does no good. And matter of fact, uh, we can hurt ourselves or others.
SPEAKER_03:How common is that though for most people to actually map out their life? There's one thing like, this is what I'm going to become, this is my career path. But then as far as where because there's people that work so hard for a career, but they don't have a plan on when they're going to release it, when they're going to move on to the next thing. And I'm not speaking about like financially. I'm just speaking of, I think a lot of that again back to identity. And because you go from being a child to, you know, you grow up, you become an adult, you get married, you become like in our case a husband. All those seasons. Every season is different. You go from being married and you have a baby, now you're a father, mother, and then you have grandkids, and like and life evolves, and everything around you, everything in front of you and everything behind you changes as life progresses. So there's the things we're not controlling, but but the intentionality of I'm gonna prepare myself to release certain things in certain seasons. Like you're like you're mentioning, like the napkin, like that napkin moment. Yeah like if what if we did that in our daily, like in just life in general, just preparation, how much easier could it be?
SPEAKER_01:Harder it'd be a lot, I think it'd be a lot easier. And I think we would live better today because we know of some things that are coming, yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_03:And tomorrow's not promise for it. No, it's not tonight. Like that's so worth doing. And that's so good. Yeah, man. Come on.
SPEAKER_01:Napkin talks. Napkin talks Jesus or or people we're passing things on to. Some napkin talks.
SPEAKER_03:Come on. Welcome to today's podcast and napkin talks. Napkin talks talking about building fences, building fences. Let's go. So good. With Dr. Yodestein.
SPEAKER_00:Come on. Yes. That's it right there. Let's go, let's go. We got it, brother. We got it.
SPEAKER_04:I need to see that picture that you did.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_04:But it just reminds me of just being, you know, when I was a teacher, like one of the big things we were always talking about is you always have to keep learning and growing. And, you know, I'm like, oh, you always have to be a lifelong learner. And we always want to teach our kids, you know, or my students in my class, you know, lifelong learner, you want to keep growing, you want to keep learning. And I feel like sometimes people, you know, get stuck and they're not learning anymore and they're not growing. And like that's to me, that's the release. Good. If that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:That's good. That's so good.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. Come on. Praise the Lord. I mean, I just again look at the example of Jesus. You know, he, you know, he he takes his disciples on a three-year mentorship training process. And I love again, over and over again, you just see him pepper it in. Hey, it's better for you that I go. I'll be with you for a little while, and then I'll be with you no more. And I think he perfectly embodies that heart. And because, first of all, he understands he's here on assignment, he knows why he's here. Yes. And then he already is seeding his followers with that mindset as well. So then when he does what he says he's going to do, I'm gonna be with you a little while, and then I am going back to prepare a place. I love how you said that, Dr. There is no confusion, there's no conflict among them, among the 120 on the day of Pentecost. There's no conflict in regards to, hey, what's important right now? What must happen right now? Peter goes out and preaches the first message after Pentecost. There's the conflict regarding benevolence being given. And Peter, the spokesman, says, Hey, y'all have to figure this out. Like you were saying, Dr. Tim, they had the napkin talks. Y'all have to figure that out. The gospel must go forward. We have to live on mission for the Lord. And I think having those talks will allow us to remain like those first century believers to say, hey, this, we're gonna figure this out so that the mission of God can go forward.
SPEAKER_03:Because it's gonna go forward regardless. Oh, absolutely. Like Moses didn't go to the promised land, but there was a Joshua.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And so and still moves forward. Absolutely. And that's the thing. Like, I I want to be part of that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I want to be a co-laborer. And like you were saying, Dr. Tim, I want to look back and I want to leave things better. Then I don't want the I don't want the footnote for Willie Simpson to be like, hey, this, listen, I don't want it to be this happened in spite of Willie. And he stayed on the other side of the river. And he I'm serious. I don't want that to be the footnote for my life. Hey, man, God moved and did, and you know, then there was Willie, you know, and God did it. He'll, you know. No, I want God to overcome me now. Mm-hmm and overcome my heart. And I want to I want to have that moment where I just say, okay, Lord, if this is the assignment, I will gladly do it. Because that's that's legacy right there.
SPEAKER_03:You want to talk about that analogy? Pastor Mike shares it a lot about the sword holding a sword in your hand.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. He talks about, and in in in the context he used was for was forgiveness, but I think it it's apropos for for legacy and sunsetting. He said, you know, if you hold on to a sword by the blade end, and this sword has been laid in your hand by the king, and if you hold on to it tightly by the late end, he's gonna pull it back. It's his sword. He goes to wrest it from your grip. You get cut and you're bloodied, and now you're offended and angry at the king who pulled back his sword that he can rightfully take away.
SPEAKER_03:You're hurt.
SPEAKER_00:And now you're hurt.
SPEAKER_03:You're injured.
SPEAKER_00:Now I'm injured. So now I'm useless. I am ineffective. I'm ineffective now. But if I keep my hands open, and I am grateful that the king has entrusted me with this work.
SPEAKER_03:Won't you open your hands right now wherever you're watching? Wherever you're watching.
SPEAKER_00:Even if you're in a car, open your hands. Put the Tesla on autopilot. Six, seven.
SPEAKER_03:Six seven.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, have good balance. Funny story, there was a guy who crashed his Winnebago years ago because he thought cruise control was autopilot. But this is another Oh Lord. And he tried to sue Winnebago, and I'm like, man, get out of here. So but if I keep my hands open, yeah, when the king pulls back that sword because he has the right to, man, I am uninjured. And then I'm I'm still useful for the work for the next assignment, for the next thing he wants to place in my hand. Absolutely. So good. I love it.
unknown:I love that.
SPEAKER_03:I love it.
SPEAKER_01:This has been good conversation. This has been awesome. I've enjoyed this.
SPEAKER_03:And I know Jess hasn't seen this. And so just to clarify, because there was one entry that came in and it they mixed up a Yoda and Frankenstein. Right. But the the Yoda Stein is not Frankenstein. It's Albert Einstein. Yes, yes. Yoda and Einstein. We're talking about how Dr. Tim's a genius. Yes. And so this is the more appropriate image. So I'm gonna uh Jacob, if you can cut to Dr. Tim's and we'll do a side-by-side.
unknown:And so this is uh the fiction.
SPEAKER_04:Wow. He's cute.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, go to the camera.
SPEAKER_04:He's cute.
SPEAKER_00:There it is. My goodness.
SPEAKER_04:Yoda's not Yoda's just he's very calm.
SPEAKER_00:I'm telling you, sage-like, knows what exactly what to say, measures that quiet strength. Yeah, that's it. That quiet strength.
SPEAKER_01:And I have the hype.
SPEAKER_03:He's actually sitting on a bar stool.
SPEAKER_01:And the phone book's getting a little uncomfortable. Oh man. Wow.
SPEAKER_03:I'm gonna leave it at that. We gotta shut it down, man.
SPEAKER_04:We'll think of a character for them later. Tim.
SPEAKER_00:I'll meet you afterwards.
SPEAKER_03:Oh man. Thank you guys so much for your time today. And we hope that you guys have been inspired and that you just heard from the Lord in whatever season of life you find yourself that that you intentionally ask the Lord what is the legacy he's called you to leave and the mission that you've been called to. I know here at Life Point we're called to lead people to become fully devoted, followers of Jesus Christ. And it's such a privilege that we get to do that. And we're glad that we get to spend time with you on the podcast every week. And so until next time, peace out.
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