The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Real conversations on worship, leadership, and living a faith-filled life beyond the platform. Hosted by leaders from LifePoint Church, this podcast is here to inspire, equip, and challenge you—whether you’re leading in ministry, in the marketplace, or just learning to lead yourself well.
The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Empathy And Authority In Leadership
What happens when a table of wise women ask how to lead with both a soft heart and a steady hand? We dig into the tension between empathy and authority and find a faithful path that starts with love, listens well, and still speaks the truth that sets people free.
If you’re hungry for leadership that is warm, wise, and deeply grounded, this one will meet you where you are and call you higher. Subscribe, share with a friend who leads, and leave a review to tell us: where do you need more grace, and where do you need more truth?
I love it. Alright. What's up, everybody? Hey, welcome to the Worship and Leadership podcast. I am Emily Hims, evidently the fun coach. And I'm so super excited because Pastor Elmer just showed me how to work this uh the music. It could be much two seconds ago. He also showed me different sound effects that I do not remember, but we're glad y'all are here to welcome. So, but yes, I would love to introduce all of my lovely ladies. If if uh all of our listeners or the people watching, we are actually doing a women's takeover. And I am so excited. So let's go, ladies. And so, right over here to my right, we have Miss Jayana. Lovely. We have Pastor Aaron.
unknown:Woo!
SPEAKER_02:We have I was wow. Miss Carly over here. We love Carly. That's right. And then Miss Sonia. We are so excited for all of y'all to be here. And I'm super excited. So just like we said a little bit earlier after the last podcast that Miss Sonia and I were in, as we were walking out, I was like, Miss Sonia, it would be so great to do just an all ladies. And Miss Sonia said yes. And typically for me, that's all I need to do.
SPEAKER_01:One person on board, turn around.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and run in here. And I told Pastor Elmer. And in my brain, I was like, it'll be 2026. And he was like, Oh yeah. So in two weeks. And I was like, oh. Okay. So I'm super excited I am super excited for y'all to be here. And so thank you, ladies, for saying yes. But today we are going to be talking about leaders who listen the with empathy and authority. I know. And Jayanna and I were actually talking earlier that it is actually really fun that it's an all ladies thing about listening with empathy and authority. And so what was your first thoughts?
SPEAKER_01:Well, my first thought was I was like, typically ladies are maybe a little bit more how I'll say it just comes more naturally. That's all I'll say. It's a ladies to be a little bit more empathetic. We have some more maternal instincts sometimes, which usually that's associated with empathy. So I thought it was really cool that all ladies were gonna be doing that. And on top of it, yeah, I just thought it was gonna be awesome that it's with these ladies. I know. And this is Sonia in here, who is a wealth of wisdom. So this is gonna be great.
SPEAKER_02:I know, I know. So great. So, Pastor Aaron. Oh, oh, I know, right? We're just starting right out. We're just we're just jumping right off. This is what you get for sitting right beside me. That's right. I love it. So, how did Jesus demonstrate empathy and leadership at the same time? Because I know sometimes, you know, some people can have maybe a little too much empathy and kind of get in the muck and the mud with people. And honestly, Jesus is our best option of whating to of what we should look at and strive to be as a leader who also carries empathy. So to you, what you're reading and all of that, how how does Jesus show that to you?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think that's a a great question. And I think that that's as leaders where we all need to start, right? Is by looking at Jesus, right? And how he showed us to lead, how he even showed us to live. It's so important. Mark, let's see, let's go to our verse, one of our key verses for our discussion today. Mark 10, verse 21. We're gonna start there. And this is yeah, I'll just start reading. It says, looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him, or some say compassion, or took pity upon. There is still there's still one thing you haven't done, he told him. Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me. So it starts off by Jesus taking pity or compassion. His heart was moved with empathy, right? To the person. And then he goes and he tells the person what he needs to do. So oftentimes we like to just show empathy and our heart really gets involved, but we don't follow back up with speaking the truth. We don't follow back up with sharing the truth and speaking it in love. It's grace and truth. And I believe that there's a such thing as toxic empathy to the point of we're just ran so much off of empathy that we we miss out on sharing the truth that is found in scripture. Hey, you know what? I see where you're at right now, but you don't have to stay there. In fact, God is calling you up out of this. Let's go to the word of God, let's see what he has to say about this. And actually, he has a better way for you. And so it's a both and. It's not, okay, all just truth. It's not all just here's how it is, but it's hey, I see you, I love you so much to the point where I'm going to share the truth with you. And so Jesus modeled that so well in his in his life and in his leadership. And I think that that is, you know, he's our foundation upon everything that we do and how we live and how we lead. And so we really have to keep that in mind when we're, when we're leading others.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that, like with the rich young ruler, because that's the story that we're talking about, right? I love that he invited Jesus to speak into it. And I think sometimes as leader, we, as leaders, we take the authority first instead of the empathy first. We kind of insert ourselves without being asked into the situation. And I feel like in that moment, the rich younger ruler came to Jesus and said, I've done all these things. What else do I need to do? What else do you want from me? And then Jesus said, I see you and I hear you. And now I'm gonna give authority. Now I'm gonna speak in authority over your life. And unfortunately, you know, he walked away from that that moment. But we want to see the joy and the and the person actually following that leadership. But when when somebody asks you, I think is like a key point in there is that Jesus wasn't just inserting himself into his life immediately with authority, which he could have done. He's God. So he absolutely could have done that, but he allowed the moment for the person's heart to be open. He gave empathy and then he gave instruction. And I just think that there's something beautiful about that when you have the relationship capital with somebody to actually have both with them. I love that in that story.
SPEAKER_03:So I think it's so important to go with that, Carly. Like a question that I like to ask young women when I'm connecting with them, caring for them, I have that relationship with them. I like to ask them, hey, do I have your permission to speak some truth into your life right now? Yeah, yeah. Because if you don't have that permission, it's gonna fall on deaf ears. Yes. Right. It's not gonna fall on good soil. And so you really have to make sure, kind of going along with what you said, Carly, like ask those questions. And sometimes, thankfully, they ask us first. You know, that's always, yeah. But that's so important. That's a key in that for sure.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm just thinking about Sunday's message when Pastor Mike really highlighted too that it's not just spiritual guidance, right? It's also some practical steps in there that we partner with that, and so that is what I'm hearing. There was some spiritual truth being spoken there, but there were also some practical steps being given because Jesus being fully God also knew what this rich young ruler's heart was kind of held captive by. And so the rich young ruler asked a question, but he really wasn't ready for the instructions that were given.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So I have a question. What do you do? We are not God, we do not know people's intention. However, God did give us a sense of discernment. And he gave us his own experience. Absolutely. And so, what do you do if somebody comes to you? Which, you know, I know all of you are in positions of leadership that people do come to you for advice, just for spiritual guidance, for fill in the blank. What do you do if they do come to you and you know that they're not going to receive what you're going to tell them? Do you withhold? Do you still tell them? Like, what do y'all do personally?
SPEAKER_00:First and foremost, we want to honor God. And so if the Holy Spirit is really stirring truth, scripture that we are to share, we honor God by sharing his truth, and we get to trust him with the outcome. We read many times in the gospels, right? I believe our Lord is very invitational, it's never forceful, and so we have an opportunity to accept or decline. That isn't on us. We are not Holy Spirit Junior. I love that for mercy multiplied ministries, right? And so we get to respect that person's choice. This is their journey, and God is not forcing them, he knows exactly how to water the seed, and he knows hopefully when they will allow the increase to really happen in their lives. But we owe God our obedience, and we get to trust him with how he will move in the lives of his sons and daughters.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, even in this example that we're looking at with Jesus, I mean, Jesus knew that man wasn't ready to take those, but he still told them. And at this, the man's face fell and he went away sad for he had many possessions. He went away, he had the truth, he asked for it, and it was his choice to walk away. And Jesus didn't go back to him and say him, no, no, no, you gotta go this way. Again, he said, Okay, he respected that was what he was going to do. And even though it was it's a hard truth to tell someone, even when you know they're not ready. There was one time I went to Pastor Aaron for I needed some help with a conversation I was gonna have to have with someone that was really hard. I didn't want to tell them the hard truth. Like I felt like I was calling them out. And you said something to me. You said you're not calling them out, you're calling them higher. Yes, you're calling them up. Absolutely. And it goes with honoring God because you're honoring him and you're honoring them. Because if you lie to them and you just listen and you don't speak truth, that's not loving. That's that's just all grace and no truth. And like you had mentioned earlier, you have to have a balance of both. And and Jesus showed that in this in this piece of scripture. It's really good.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think too, like the opportunity to lean into the Holy Spirit's guidance. I'm not one that is ever lost for words. Our communications director. Yeah, communications director. Like I did it's it's not something that is hard for me, right? I've always got pieces of advice and things to say and scripture to bring and whatever those pieces are. And so sometimes my submission to what God's asking me to do in that situation is to remain silent. Yes. And being very sensitive to that and knowing when and if the Lord is leading me to say something, even if there is truth that can be spoken in the moment, allowing the Holy Spirit to lead that moment and not taking that authority on my own. Yes, but really like letting the moment sit and allowing the Lord to speak through me if he needs to, and sometimes speak through me in my silence. And then when there's no words, it's the hey, let's just pray.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_04:And then and then leaving it at that. Like that's always an appropriate response. It's like, let's just pray. Like I have no words of wisdom for you in this moment, or I'm not feeling a direction, or that they're even open, but I can pray that the Holy Spirit begin to soften their heart to his words and that he speaks to them directly. And so I think that it's important to our silence and our words are both just as powerful. And it's all about the leading of the Holy Spirit.
SPEAKER_03:We must leave room for that. Yeah, you have to. I mean, in everything, because if we're not doing that, then it's just out of our own strength. It's out of our own opinion, it's out of our own wisdom, our own wisdom, which does not go very far. Yeah. And we will actually do more harm than good. Yeah, absolutely in the long run. So I love how you mentioned just sometimes silence is sometimes the best thing to do. Yeah. Because you're leaving room for the Lord to speak. Kind of going a little off of your question a little bit, Emily, if that's okay. But as as we were kind of preparing for this, I really felt like the Lord was just like, you know, sometimes, you know, we look as leaders to have the answer for everything. You know, we think we have this pressure that we often put on ourselves. Yes. To, you know, oh, they're coming to me. That must mean I have to have the answer for them about everything. And this goes a long, long way. And that is, you can say, I don't know. Absolutely. But I want to go on the journey with you of finding out. And oftentimes that can that reminds me of silence. Yeah. I'm just going, hey, you know what? I'm not going to speak into this right now with my words, right? But I'm going to be led of the Holy Spirit and we're going to pray and we're going to believe that God is going to show us. And we're going to pray that God is going to move in your situation. Yeah, absolutely. And that just goes a long way. And I think that ties into humility because we can't be leaders who listen when we're full of pride. Yes. In order to be leaders who listen and have authority, we have to humble ourselves and submit ourselves, Carly. Yeah. Like what you're saying is so good.
SPEAKER_00:Pastor Aaron, I think that's so good because I also believe that it helps the person who may be coming to us for an answer. We are not the answer. And so in that moment of being able to share with them, I don't have an answer for you now, but we can pray. Helps them to realize too that we are depending upon God. Yes. And it can be encouraging to them too. And so I believe that that's always wise. Because we need God.
SPEAKER_03:We all do.
SPEAKER_00:And we need to be pointing others to help.
SPEAKER_02:I love that, man. Because it's it and it makes me sit back and it makes me go, okay, you know, yes, at the very beginning, hey, we're looking at Jesus and his response to the rich young ruler, and it's the one in Jesus, like, who is God who has the utmost authority ever. Like, he even is so he is like the definition of humility. Like he in in in order to have the authority to speak, he first must be humble. And it's just it's a gut check. Yeah. Because I know sometimes we all can kind of get wrapped up in the rat race of, hey, I'm just gonna answer this real quick and be done with it. And whereas a lot of times you just need to stop. And I think that's where that empathy can come from, too, is you know, especially if somebody is coming to you, you know, going, hey, you know, whatever it is, my dog won't eat, you know.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it's always a tough thing. I mean, that's what it is.
SPEAKER_01:It's a tough thing. Okay, hold on. Give me a second.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Like a dog returns. My gosh. Okay. Reel us back in.
SPEAKER_02:22 minutes in. Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_03:It didn't take long.
SPEAKER_02:No, but you know, so you know, and it's so easy for us as leaders just to willy-nilly just kind of give them the answer real quick, give them a scripture, give them this, give it. But, you know, Jesus takes time. Yeah. And he always, he and he will always give you time to come to him, to listen to him, and then he will fill you with what he needs you to have in that moment. And so, us as leaders, you know, who are we to say that we don't have time for people to and just give them what they need, just root, just right then and there. So when has there been a time that somebody has taken the time and listened to you with empathy, but yet you go to them because they're in authority that has absolutely changed who you are as a person anyone can go.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I can share yesterday Pastor Aaron was really that person for me. You know, she gave me her time, her attention, um, wise counsel, prayer. And it's not, it hasn't, it wasn't the first time. And I treasure that I've had conversations with Carly. I've had conversations with you, Emily. You know, Jayana, I've taught with you, you know. So every last one of you in this room are a part of my journey, and there are so many more that I'm grateful for, and it just helps make me better. And and I do believe we're better together.
SPEAKER_04:I think there's something it circles back to the humility piece that even in leadership, we need other leaders. Absolutely. And not isolating ourselves. I feel like so many times I'm we spoke recently, and I was having like a leadership crisis moment where I was devastated that someone that I had been leading had been in leadership with and in ministry together with had not come to me with something that was like earth-shatteringly big.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And I felt like a failure because I was like, and I told Miss Sonia, I was like, did I like fail them? Did I like create this space that they couldn't be genuine with me and tell me the truth? Like I took it all up on myself. And then really in that conversation, just with so much grace, Miss Sonia just kind of walked me through, like, why would you think that? First of all, this is not, first of all, Carly, this is not about you. But like she did not say that.
SPEAKER_05:I did not say that.
SPEAKER_04:She was so gracious though in that moment and let me like verbally process that and just allow the Holy Spirit in that moment to like, okay, Carly, this isn't about you. And this isn't about you failing as a leader. This just wasn't your moment to lead her in this area. And you can just continue to be in the position that she's invited you to be in as a friend. And I just thought, okay, like you need other leaders to help you identify that. And so you don't isolate yourself as that person. Absolutely. I feel like my husband has actually been that person in my life. As a kid, I didn't have a lot of, there was a lot of us. And so there was not a lot of room of uh for us to be heard much. And I have a big voice and I always want to have an opinion. And I have, you know, and I do, I have lots of opinions. And my husband has really always created space for me to share what I'm going through, what I'm, what I'm what I'm seeing, how I'm feeling, and given the empathy in that space to be like, I see you and I understand what you're going through. We're still not gonna do it this way. And that, but it's always been like very genuine to where I really do feel like, okay, you heard what I had to say, and you still feel like this is the other option. It makes it easy to follow somebody when they give you those genuine ears to listen. Um, and so it creates that safe space.
SPEAKER_00:But you just hit on something.
SPEAKER_04:What?
SPEAKER_00:Because I believe empathy is always making room for people to be authentically who they are. You know, they get to be unashamed, unafraid, and really honest with their thoughts and feelings. And the authority that we get to operate in is that we get to hold back enough and allow the Holy Spirit to show us if there is something for us to say or if it's just for us to pray. But he needs them where they get to be met. Yeah. But it really is hearing them. Jesus heard him and led him back to the area that he needed to examine. He walked away sad, but we don't know what might have happened. Right, exactly. You know, so we get to trust God with others' journeys. He's been gracious enough with to us to allow us to take our journeys at the pace we've taken our journey, and he'll do the same for others. And so empathy is just really valuing a person enough that we respect them, that we tell them they don't have to be ashamed or apologetic about what they're thinking or feeling, and get to be honest. That's at the place, that's the place God meets us. Honesty. That's great.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that is good. That is good, Jayana. I have a question specifically for you. Oh Lord, okay, what is it? Because I love you, and I know you. Okay. And because I know that you are awesome at leading others through just period. How do you stay emotionally present amid leadership demands? Because you are here, there, and everywhere all the time. So, how do you stay emotionally present for your team and I mean for your dad, for your small group, for just the people around you? How do you stay emotionally present amid the demands?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think first I I have to make sure I'm spiritually healthy before anything else. I have to make sure I have my emotions handed over to Jesus and submit them to him first personally. I heard this saying one time, and I've just actually was just a few weeks ago, and now I've been using all the time that emotions they make good servants, but they don't make good masters. I know, right? I was like, that's amazing. And so for me, what I do because I'm a loud person, I have a lot of feelings, I'm a little boisterous, you know, I'm the kids' person. So I have a lot of emotions and I have to submit those to Christ every single day. And a lot of times what I have to do is again, I have to align myself every morning back to Jesus. Okay, get in his word. And that is literally my anchor. And I can tell, I mean, you guys know this too. If there is one day where you, that's not the first thing that you do, or like, okay, I'm gonna do it before I go to sleep, your whole day is messed up and then I'm agitated. I can't listen to someone who's talking to me with this like deep problem that they have because I didn't start off on the right foot. And that was on me. That's that's not on them, you know? So for me, that's what I have to do first, is I have to start on the right foot so that I can be the best for my team, for my dad, for myself, you know, for the Lord ultimately. So that's what I do with that. Because and then when I'm listening to someone or when I'm talking with people and a, you know, an issue over here happens and then an issue over here happens, and I'm like, okay, I feel irritated, I feel angry, I feel this and that. I have I stop. This is something I've started doing. I haven't always been good at this. But I'm like, okay, God, tell me why I am feeling this right now. What is it that is causing this emotion in me? Because there's usually something deeper that I'm just looking at the surface, but there's something more. So instead of being upset because this person said this this way, so I'm gonna be angry instead of say, okay, God, why did that make me angry? Was it my pride that got in the way because they didn't like something that I did? Like, what is it that is the issue? And so I try to do that. So now when I when I listen to people or when they're talking to me or I get, you know, feedback from all the different areas and different things, that's another way that I try to stay emotionally present, isn't it? Is not letting the the internal emotions that I feel that are very personal rule me. Again, like just submitting those and uh using them as servants as an indicator, okay, where do I need to go next? And that is so hard.
SPEAKER_02:It is in leadership. I mean, seriously, in like once again, we talk about leadership, but everybody has influence over somebody. You were whoever you are listening, whatever you are leading, someone. Absolutely. So whenever we say leadership, we're talking to you too. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think Joe Jayana just mentioned something that really kind of struck a chord and emotionally healthy spirituality by Peter Sco. I would encourage anyone to read it because we all have emotions, we will feel them, and we need to know how to manage them with the help of the Lord, but also how to submit them.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yes, right. Yeah, yes. That's good. Because in leadership, you're going to, especially if if you are wanting to act as Christ and listen with empathy, you're going to have to submit those feelings and those emotions.
SPEAKER_01:Because tell, I'll tell you what, I got a lot of opinions when people are talking. We were talking about this earlier. I'm like, I sometimes when I'm listening, like I'm aware. I don't know if it's like my hyperactive thing. I just want to like keep talking. I want to interject. Emily joked and she said, Yeah, when I look at you and I'm like nodding, it's because I've already like held myself back seven times from wanting to interject. That's so true for Emily.
SPEAKER_03:I think we all probably have our little things that we like like do to just refrain ourselves from doing it.
SPEAKER_01:I kind of literally have to sit on my hands because I talk with my hands. My mamma used to joke and say I couldn't talk if I sat on my hands. So that's kind of my trick that I do.
SPEAKER_04:That is awesome. I need to practice. That is that is.
SPEAKER_03:Everyone's sitting on their hands. Yeah, we're like You're just listening.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:We have a listening ears on the thing.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, no one's saying anything.
SPEAKER_04:Right? Not a word. Just looking.
SPEAKER_02:We're just nodding. Oh my goodness. Sitting on our hands.
SPEAKER_04:I think too, like, can I just point out that like I grew up and really in my later 20s, I had to learn that emotions aren't bad. Absolutely. Right? Like you almost learn younger, and I'm a Gen Xer, so like maybe things were a little different in my generation, but like you learned that when it's a heavier emotion, that it is negative. Yes. And so then you feel like, and then as a Christian, you feel like negative emotions should never be a part of my life because I'm a Christ follower. Right. And Jesus does, but he gave us emotions for a reason. And so I think it is the key of learning how to submit them, how to process them and how you process them with the Lord. And that looks different for everybody. Absolutely. I I have three kids and one of them is a verbal processor like me. So get us in a room and no one shuts up and we all have lots of things to say. And then I have another one where it's like you're just dragging it out of her, like, just please give me one word. I just need one word. And then I have another one, my son, who's the youngest, he'll just come in and be like, I just have a lot of things. I'm like, okay, do you want to talk? Nope. And he'll just curl up in the bed and just want to sit there for a few minutes. He might cry, he might just sit there and be angry for a minute and creating healthy spaces to process those. That's the same thing that we have to do with the Lord, right? Like go to the Lord and if He has to drag the words out of you, or you need to journal it, or you just need to word vomit. He can, I remember I had a mentor really, I think I was 22, 23, and she told me that God was big enough to handle my emotions. And that it was okay for me to like just yell while I was praying. Yeah. Like that was 100% okay. That was not me being out of control or being immature or ridiculous. Like he could process my emotions. And I think it's so important to find that security in him so that you can be more stable when you're helping other people walk through.
SPEAKER_00:Carly, that's good. Again, I guess I just hear Pastor Mike on a reel in my mind today. But he's kind of shared with us before too that God, our God isn't fragile. Yes. And oftentimes we have kind of been given information or a picture painted that isn't correct. Right. And I think the book of Psalms, God included it to show us there's a whole range of emotions in the book of Psalms. And some of David's are my favorite. You know, but the beauty is David was often really real, like get him, God. But before the psalm was over, his eyes were back on the Lord, not on the problems. And so it's so important to know that we can be honest, whether we're yelling, whether we're crying. I love what you said your son does because so oftentimes I think males especially aren't invited to really consider the emotions that they uh feel, whether they express them because they're crying or they really talk about them. It's important, whether we're male or female, to do that because God did give them to us. And the danger is when we don't, we're stuffing, and there's gonna come a day.
SPEAKER_04:So it's all coming out.
SPEAKER_00:There we go.
SPEAKER_04:There we go.
SPEAKER_03:Just a jinking time bomb.
SPEAKER_02:Oh man. Okay, just by show of hands, who has ever suppressed emotions and it has come out in a very not good time.
SPEAKER_04:I don't suppress emotions. It's come out in wrong times, but I don't really suppress it. Just call Tony. He'll tell you.
SPEAKER_02:That was that is that is awesome. That is awesome. Oh my goodness. Yes, Miss Sonia, correctly. Emotions are good, whether male or female, like whatever emotions are meant to be processed with the Lord. Yeah. And it's okay to have them. Yeah. Yes. He gave them to us. Period.
SPEAKER_01:Like literally, that is the end of the sentence. The fact that we have emotions is that we can empathize with others that have the same emotions that we do. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. I love that. Has there ever been a moment we were just laughing about how evently Carly doesn't have an issue suppressing emotions? The rest of us do. But has there ever been a moment where you actually chose not to listen and not empathize? And that did not go very well for you or the person who you were trying to help. Was there ever a moment that you were like, I blew it? Blew it. Absolutely blew it. And that was not.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Do you feel comfortable sharing?
SPEAKER_00:I think those moments have happened in my life more with those closest to me, my family. Just because sometimes you are being real because they're your safe space, right? And so sometimes really not even in that moment being prayerful about what's being said. I'm rushing ahead and I'm going to give you the answer. And it has taken time for God to show me that they deserve the same care and respect as anyone else.
SPEAKER_02:Well, that just convicted me. Just let it be known. Sorry, Michael's right now.
SPEAKER_03:Just reach into us. Family.
SPEAKER_00:But I mean being honest. You know, meaning well. But what Pastor Aaron said earlier, it doesn't serve them well. Correct. And it really reflects Christ in a not so good way either.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because he knows where they are. I'm thinking I know, but he really knows. Yeah. And so I'm grateful that he's helped mature me, you know, enough to really listen and really trust him with whether I need to be silent, offer prayer, or ask if they would like me to share scripture with them, but they get to invite me into that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That is good. I I think for me, I've well, I've had several problem. Yeah, I have. I mean, come on, you know, we're always learning and growing, right? Yeah. But there was this, uh, let me kind of back up here. So I I can have a very direct approach. Uh I'm I'm a direct person. And so give it to me straight. I want to hear it. Don't sugarcoat things. Don't just tell me. Yeah. Because that just leaves room. And I'll just let's not do that. So just tell me. I'm direct too. And so in the name of directness, I was, you know, I was leading somebody and the person was, you know, just struggling with some things. And I just shared all truth in that moment direct. And I didn't go and like what we were talking about earlier, inviting the Holy Spirit in, which is so important. So us like I believe we're all talking about this because these are things that we have had to learn. Oh, yeah. And we know, like when we don't, we're like, oh, that conviction. Oh no. So it's so important to do that because if not, it will cause more harm, right? Yes. Than good. And so I was just very direct with the person. What I said wasn't bad at all. It was very in line with scripture. And but I the person didn't tell me that I hurt them or anything like that. However, what got me was after I walked away from this conversation, the Holy Spirit is the one who started speaking to me and doing the work in me, going, you know, this was, you know, how I heard it. Um in my mind, hey, you you probably should have showed more grace.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And you should have maybe been a little bit more understanding. Yeah. And so I went back to that person, which is hard to do. Yes. We gotta we that's why humility has to lead the way. And so I went back to the person and I just apologized. I just said, listen, I was very direct because this matter is so serious and it's important. And I just I just shared all the truth with you because I care, but I didn't really lead with much grace or understanding. And I apologized. And the person understood. They and it was a beautiful conversation after. But it was after that moment, after that, that leadership kind of fail in a sense. God redeemed it, praise the Lord. But it was after that that I have really tried to make it a priority to go, you know what, Lord, help me. Let me listen, let me be slow to speak, yes, quick to listen. There we go. Come on. And he really has because I have really just made that a priority in my life. But I felt this small, y'all. Like I was like, oh no, when the Holy Spirit starts convicting you in such a kind but gentle, but yet firm way. I was like, okay, you got it. I I messed that one up.
SPEAKER_00:But I believe we've all had moments where we wanted grace from somebody that might have just been direct and giving us truth and we know what that felt like. And I think we always need to remember that so that it helps us make sure that we don't get ahead of the Lord and cause harm you know to someone else. Because it is so easy to do when we're moving. I love what you said, uh Emily, earlier, because life sometimes can be full. Whether it's we're parents with our children, even when they're little, it matters.
SPEAKER_05:Yes.
SPEAKER_00:You know how many of us have stories that are connected to our childhood. And so it's so important to know no matter where a person is, age and stage of life, they deserve, they deserve our time, yes, attention. You know, we're encouraged here to be interruptible, right? Because we're showing that we value those people. We want to hear what they're saying. I am older than all of you. So there was a saying when I was a child, children were made to be seen, not heard.
SPEAKER_04:Not heard. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:No one ever asked me what I thought or felt. And it took me a long time to get to a place of knowing that both are important to God. And so I'm passionate about people knowing that they matter. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, Miss Sonia, you just you do a wonderful job. Yes. Yes, you do. In fact, you have even personally helped me just in my emotions and creating a safe place for that. To where, you know, in leadership, we've we've all kind of talked about this, right? We need a safe place. Leaders need to go to leaders and lead that. And that takes vulnerability, and that's yeah, very challenging. It is, yeah. But you have allowed that safe place to help process through emotions, but then always direct it back to hey, yes, this is what the Lord says about you. Yes, this is what God says. We're gonna lean into the truth. So emotions and feelings are not the enemy, they're not a negative thing. It's how God wired us, He wants us to process through them. And you have created just such a wonderful space to allow me and all of us in here. Yeah, I'm we do it for each other, by the way.
SPEAKER_00:I want to say that. And I really want to say, I think that goes right to the authority, right? So we have a place to talk through the emotions, and sometimes they're big. Yes, you know, sometimes we have a lot of feelings and opinions, yeah, but we come back to who has authority first in our lives that we really get to submit to and allow him to reflect himself through us to others. And so I think it takes us back to the importance of empathy. God is love. Yes, we cannot have empathy if we really aren't walking in the love that God wants us to walk in. That's true, and that also takes authority, and authority isn't just wielding power or forcing anyone to do anything. I think meekness is a part of that authority, right? And that's power under control. Yes, like you know, you have it. Jesus did it all the time. I mean fully God, yeah, meekness on full display. Yes, he could have called down angels at any moment. Yep, right when they were talking crazy to him, he could have said, Shake you. He did not, yeah, and if he could model that for us and go all the way to the cross for us, yeah, can we not endure doing life with one another in a loving, God-honoring way? Yes, choosing to show empathy, yes, and also walking in the God-given authority he's given us, right? Living in humility, yes, that's right.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Miss Sonia, can you just like read the Bible? She really should. I think we need like an audio version of Ms. Sonia, and I'm not even kidding you. I would that's what I would religion to, but in the message version.
SPEAKER_01:Miss Sonia loves read the message. Are you tired? I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Show you how to take away this.
SPEAKER_01:All the time she'll say, okay, now let me read it to you in the message. I love what it says here.
SPEAKER_03:Never just hits different and you're like, okay, it's in here and in here now. Yeah, I can run through this wall. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:I got absolutely Lord. Honestly, the Lord has gone through the wall for me. Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, what did Nate say today at prayer? That when we already know we are on the winning side, oh, that was so good. It was good. Oh, we choose to live differently.
SPEAKER_02:And we walk in that authority. Yes. Yeah, it's so good. Oh my goodness. I love it.
SPEAKER_00:Pastor Nate, by the way. Yeah, Pastor Nate.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Pastor Nate. Oh, that's so good.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, question for you, Miss Sonia. Again, I'm so sorry. We're just this, we're just gonna change the podcast name. We're changing the podcast name. What is I what are some tools? Because with you being over and able to oversee the care team, you that is this is what you do. People come to you and your team for just which are you two?
SPEAKER_00:All of you things.
SPEAKER_02:All of it, yes, yes, for just an array of things, all of the things. Is there some tools? Is there like a system? Not necessarily not saying that you set them into, you know, first I hear them, then I do this, then I do this, then, but is there any tools that you use that can help people listen with empathy, stand in that authority when people come to leaders?
SPEAKER_00:So really empowering them to live in that way. First and foremost, I think they need a safe space to get out what it is they need to get out. I think sometimes we feel conflicted about being honest. And so we're fighting this war, and we don't even realize we're really fighting ourselves. And God is just asking us, I love what you said. You have a child that you let me drag it out of you. And so God has been waiting for you just to release it. And so I think for people to feel safe enough, I I oftentimes read Romans 8, verses 31 through 39, because it's so important for them to know that nothing, absolutely nothing, can ever separate you from God's love. But we really start talking some practical things too, because we can read some scripture together, but it's really important about their spiritual rhythms. So tell me how you do life with Jesus. Who is Jesus to you? Okay, and and so it's really how can we now maybe and I call them create more merry moments, you know, being more attentive. Because sometimes we have good intentions about being with God, but it's a check being with God. No, we get to just be Psalm 23:1, the Lord is my shepherd, I have all that I need. Do we really allow the shepherd to lead? Um, I encourage people, as Pastor Mike does often as well, read through the gospels. Who is Jesus? What is he saying? What is he stirring in your heart? And so people have to first feel safe. Oftentimes they've been wounded by others, so sometimes they're not even aware that they're distrusting of God in the same way. And so those it takes time sometimes to to kind of peel that back enough for a person to fully emerge and say, I got it. So we're talking about what small group are you in? You know, I'm a keys to freedom fan. So it's like we're gonna talk about keys. And and when I meet with women who've gone through keys, oftentimes I'll kind of share with them, we need keys to operate our vehicles, we need keys to get in and out of our homes. What happened to your keys? Because key seven is maintaining lifelong freedom. But if we're not using the keys, we can't maintain it, and so we have to stay an active pursuit of living the way Christ wants us to every day. Our weaknesses will always be our weaknesses, but the more we submit them to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and employ what he gives us in his word, the more empowered we are to truly live unapologetically. Moving forward in empathy, but also confident in our God-given authority. Devil, I get to say no to you. Devil, I get to break agreement with you. And I am gonna embrace the truths God has given me. Yeah, it changes everything.
unknown:That's good.
SPEAKER_00:I hope that answered your question.
SPEAKER_02:You know what? Once again, like, and I mean to be honest with you, I think that is like a great way, kind of how to wrap this up, y'all. I'm not even gonna lie. Like, that was like, I'm not kidding you. You think I'm playing? I'm about to just like slip like a recorder in your office and just and just be like, Yeah, can you read this verse for me real quick?
SPEAKER_00:I give God all the glory. It's all Him. We are nothing without Him.
SPEAKER_02:And that's why we love you. Yeah, and that's why we love you. Because you were like, nope, it's all God You're cool too. He made you bad.
SPEAKER_00:You're cool too. He gives all the glory.
SPEAKER_02:I know. Well, ladies, this was fun. This was fun. I'm just gonna speak it just because Pastor Elmer's over there in the corner. I don't know if you can see him, like in the back of any of the, but we're just gonna speak it. I feel like we need to do ladies' takeover every once in a while because I think this was fun.
SPEAKER_04:Listen, we gotta lean into part two on how we practically lead like our staff. Like that looks totally different than discipling people through like crisis and emotional things. Like, how do we make that work in as a staff? Like when we're leading staff members. So that's part two.
SPEAKER_02:Look, look. Just calling it. Look, Pastor Amos, like, well, Ned, I guess I could do that too. But everybody who's listening and watching, we love you guys. We hope that this has blessed you like it has blessed me, to be honest with you. So until then, we love you guys. Peace out. See ya. God bless.
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