Stop Just Singing: The Secret to True Biblical Worship

Worship isn’t a setlist, and “worship leader” isn’t a job title we hand out to the most talented musician. We kick off Season Five by going back to the priesthood, because the Bible treats worship as a weighty responsibility tied to identity, integrity, and representation. If you’ve ever felt the tension between platform culture and real spiritual authority, this conversation is for you. 

If this stretches you, share it with a friend who serves in worship or leadership, and then subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what’s one change that would make your church’s worship feel more holy and more present?

Transcript

Season Five Kickoff And Vision

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Action Action Jackson Jackson.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hey, what's going on? Hey, we're back.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

We're back and we're back and excited, man. Uh, welcome to the Worship and Leadership podcast. My name is Elmer Gagnes Jr.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

And like always, the man, the legend, Willie Stevenson Jr. What do you call that dance?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

I call this the getting jiggy with it. Getting jiggy with it. Getting jiggy with it.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

I'm not even gonna try this gonna lose ratings if I start trying to dance. Oh man, hey, officially season five.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

That is insane. It's crazy. Hey, those of you joining us today, thank you for taking the time and being a part of this podcast and and this new season as we launch the Worship and Leadership Podcast Womo again. And it's it's exciting. How have you been?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Man, I'm I'm doing great. I'm blessed and highly flavored, man. I'm telling you jump right now. I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I can't contain myself. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:17

And uh and tell us what people could look forward to in season five.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

We're gonna do like we've always done, continue to resource you with leadership, ethic, and principles. But for this season, we're really gonna lean in on what worship is, what responsibility and privilege and honor we have uh in regards to worship and how worship and leadership still tie in together. So this season here, we're gonna be a deeper dive, a more focused dive. Uh we're gonna nerd out even more heavily, but then we're also gonna pull back broadly and and help you to see how God uses you as an integral part in in worship leading and how you influence others to follow Christ.

Priesthood Identity And Calling

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yep. And a lot of people are like, well, worship, I'm not a worship leader at my church. I don't play music, I don't sing. And this has nothing to do with your gifts and abilities as far as it's pertaining to with an instrument. Right. This is your life of worship, your your offering unto the Lord and how you steward that, how you lead others in that. And so there'll there'll be talk about musicianship and and that responsibility within within the church. But this applies to all of us in our daily living. And so we're glad that you guys are joining us for a new season. And so here we go.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, so today we we're talking about the priesthood. Come on, somebody. We we're gonna go OT on you. And I think when I think of the priesthood, I the one word that I think about, Pastor Elmer, is the word identity. And you know, scripture calls us in 1 Peter chapter 2, verse 9. It's a very popular verse to quote, we're a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a peculiar generation. We're called out. And and Peter says, this is the purpose. It's to proclaim the excellencies of him. Well, who's the him? That's the Lord who called us out of the darkness into his marvelous light. So when we think of, I love how you said when we think about priesthood, it's not about the platform of what you do, it's about a responsibility that we get to carry, this weightiness that we get to carry to represent the king to the people that he wants to reach. That's really what it is.

SPEAKER_03 3:21

Yep. And so we're gonna dive in and and so we we pray really that that this content speaks to your heart wherever you find yourself in life, and that you share you're able to share that with other people as well. But most people, when they think about worship leaders, let's start let's start with with that word worship leaders, because that's become a really popular term within the church, the modern church. Right. Growing up, that you didn't you had a music minstrel, you had the music director, the choir director, you know, like it was it was all these different terms. And now you have worship leaders, and now there's courses on how to be a great worship leader, not just a worship leader, a great one. Yeah. And and so it's it's almost become like a career of itself within the church community, and which is interesting to me. Yeah, because I believe we're all worship leaders. That's right. And uh, and but there are things obviously you have to be musical in the context of the church today that you you do have to know how to play an instrument because you're you're leading other musicians. You do need to know how you need know you need to know how to sing.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

You do, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Or or your church will suffer. My Lord. You know, Lord helped us all. And and so there there are those skill sets that are required, but in general, I I think a worship leader isn't so much a musician or a singer, you know, but a person that has has made a decision in life that I'm gonna I'm gonna live a life of obedience, I'm gonna steward everything God's given me, and I'm gonna I'm gonna lead others in that same lifestyle. So it's almost like we've we've isolated this term to a platform and not so much to a livelihood. And that's why we're talking about the priesthood. And the priest, it wasn't isolated to one place, it was it was an entire way of living. It was almost like like the priests were the Levites. It's like this was a tribe, yeah, and they were the chosen priests. Yes, and it was a real specific trait that we we everyone knew then, like they're the ones that that were in charge of teaching and the order of of worship and all these things, and it's really different.

Why God Established The Priesthood

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah, so you know, pulling back and just get let's let's let's look broadly theologically, why why the priesthood even exists? So, you know, so you know, pulling back to Genesis, God creates everything and it's good. He creates man, says it's very good, places him in a garden, gives one commandment. Hey, just don't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Man and woman, they disobey, and because of that, there is a separation, there is death, there's death of closeness, death of intimate fellowship and relationship with God. And then so the outworking of that is God is not in close fellowship, close personal relationship, like in the garden anymore. And then we we pull forward to the book of Exodus. God builds out a people, he calls out a people, the nation of Israel, the children of Israel, and he delivers them out of bondage from Egypt. And again, he delivers them, they're his chosen people, but they are sinful. They are flawed, they are stained by sin. So they don't have this direct connection with the Lord. They can't dwell in his presence directly, or they will be consumed. It says he's a consuming fire, he dwells in unapproachable light. He is holy, we are not. So it's like oil and water, it doesn't mix. And so God creates a system. And this system is the answer to this question: how can a holy and righteous God dwell with sinful, wicked man? It is the it is the sacrificial system, it is worship. This is how you, this is how God can remain in fellowship with the Lord. Well, not everybody can come into his presence. He he he he prescribes the building of a of a tabernacle, the tent of dwelling, the tent of meeting, because God says, I still want to meet with you, but here are the prescriptions behind that. And I'm gonna raise up a specific group of people who will serve as emissaries, they will be go-betweens, liaisons between God and man. And that is the priesthood. And so what the priest would do is they were given special vestments, like Elmer said. So you knew what a priest was because how they dressed. They were given special vestments, they were the ones who lived and dwelt in the tabernacle.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

That means their fit was real specific.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yeah. Thank you. Their fit was real specific. They had a specific set of clothes. Think of it like a uniform on. Like you, like you know a soldier, you're like, oh, yep, that's a soldier. They're in the military. And and not only that, but they were given prescribed activities in regards to allowing the people to interact with God. This is the sacrificial system. This is where you bring an animal, you bring a bird, you bring a lamb, a goat, a dove, or you bring herbs, and you offer these sacrifices. You brought them to the priest, the priest would prepare them, lay them on the the ark of the that they would lay them on the ark of the covenant, the place of sacrifice, and the the Lord there, his fire would consume this sacrifice and it would be acceptable as worship.

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Yeah, and and and let's go back a little further to the garden, not the garden, I'm sorry, after the garden with Cain and Abel. Yeah. And so this is a real popular story. Everyone knows, like, you know, Abel had, you know, the perfect offering, and Cain was like, no, like I'm just gonna give God my leftovers. So at that point, there was already a system in place of of how to worship the Lord and how and pretty much bringing God your best was it. But then you see in in Cain's response, like it was easy. Human nature, the sinful nature just took over, and he and he he wanted just to give God his leftovers. Right. And so it was it was easy for for man to just kind of like, you know what, I'm gonna decide what I'm gonna give God. Yeah, but God did not accept it. That's right, obviously, and then it led to you know repercussion of things. And so then to to establish a people that would bring order was necessary, absolutely, or else men would just do whatever they want. You think about just the law in general, just you know, like if you're driving on the street, you can't just drive as fast as you want. That's right. There has to be certain things in place. I don't want to call them rules, they're rules, but they're we we did we we we just how do we how do we say that? We describe them at life point as guardrails. That's right. That's that's that's one of the words we use with our teams. It's something I use with my kids. We use guardrails, these are the guardrails, the parameters. If you think of a river, there's banks on the river that allow the river to flow a certain direction. Yeah, and so these these rules, these, these, this, these methods, this is what has been put in place to allow us to continue to move forward and in the right direction.

Song Choices Shape Theology

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Absolutely. And I'm glad you said that you're right. I mean, Cain and Abel, there is a sacrificial system, but like you said, there was no prescription for it. And so God says, okay, I've raised up the priesthood now. And what the priests would do is they would teach the people, hey, this is what acceptable worship looks like. So you would bring an animal, you would bring livestock, you would, you would bring grains or whatever it was, and it had to be a a certain way, a certain amount, it had to had to be in a certain condition, it had to be brought at a certain time, a certain time of the day, it had to be brought in in a certain manner. This is and so the priests now are instructing the people on proper worship. And and so again, I don't want to pull forward too much, but again, New Testament-wise, so we have to think of ourselves when we are in in church service and we are leading in worship, we are teaching people about God. That's what priests were doing. They were teaching people theology, they were teaching the people of God theology. This is what pleases the Lord, this is what is acceptable to the Lord because we know the Lord's character, we know what, we know his disposition, we know his will. And so I want to challenge you, as a worship leader, you have to know God's will. You can't know his will apart from his word. Remember, this was prescribed, which means it was the word of God given to them through Moses. And we have the Bible, we have the word of God given to us that prescribes to us, it gives us his will, what pleases God, what displeases him, what is acceptable, what is his expectation. So that way when we are, again, proclaiming his excellencies, we're doing so in a way that honors him and blesses the people. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:17

And and so in our context today in modern modern church, the worship leaders, they might not be giving lessons on like, hey, this is your don't bring in the goat to church, you know? It happens in Tennessee. But but through our songs, the the the song choices that we we allow in our churches, that's that's teaching of theology. I I tell our worship leaders here at at Life Point all the time, like, really select on what songs we do sing because we're actually putting words in people's mouths. Like I'll sit in the in the audience at times and as we're worshiping with together, and I'll I'll observe in the audience and just watch people just just read the screens that are you know lyrics on the screens and they're repeating words. Sometimes they know what they're singing, sometimes they don't, they don't. And I tend to do that more when we're introducing new songs. And people, even if they don't know them, they're reading along and just there's they're declaring these words. Yeah. And so I'm very mindful, like I don't just want to put any type of words that mean that are that are that are empty in people's mouths and and where they're making these declarations that are are not of any power or life change or testimony of what the Lord has done. Right. And and there's a lot of music. And just to to be pretty honest, our our songwriting today has become more of an industry and more about profit than it has been about equipping the church and the saints with with with anthems uh and songs that will just bring unity and bring just glory to God. And so you see albums just dropping one after another and something that can easily start. And I'm not saying that it's all done for money. I'm a songwriter too. We we release music here at Life Point as well. But when the when the intent of of putting music out is solely to meet a quota based on contracts with a label, when it's just put it being put out because you want to be recognized and acknowledged for your gifts and your abilities, that's that's the incorrect heart. So if you're already leading with the wrong motive, then when you're you know bringing that to the people and they're declaring and singing these songs that are birthed from wanting to do something that has nothing to do with bringing glory to God, like you'll eventually see that in your church, you know, and and it just it it's empty words. That's the best way I can describe it. Yeah, empty words, it's it becomes about you, it's like self-worship in a sense. And there's a lot of songs like that where a lot of the popular Christian songs now nowadays, they're they're so focused on me and me, and it's a testimony about me, but they're being sung, and that's great. I think those songs have a place. Like, you know, reflect on those songs, sing them and just be mindful, like God, you brought me from this place. Look, man, you've you've really changed my life, and that's awesome. But in a congregational setting, like we should be coming together to bring God glory and to lift him up and to set our eyes on him. There's people that enter the doors of the church that that don't have a relationship with Jesus, and so as we're we're testifying of his goodness, we also have to worship him. That's so good. Not just the journey of being a Christian, yeah. And that's what's happening a lot. A lot of our songs are focused on just the journey and the process and where he brought me from, but not actually the God and who he is, his character, his his greatness, all those things. And so I believe as leaders, there's things that we say, and then there's things that that we were asking people, hey, learn this. I want you to learn, and then there's things that are caught by people. Yeah, absolutely. And so this next generation that's coming up behind us, they're catching all these things that like, oh, well, oh, that's what worship is. Yeah, I just have to talk about myself, yeah. And so to what we were talking about, the Levites taught the people the proper etiquette of of worship and and the proper offerings unto the Lord. I think it's our responsibility today from the church platform and even off the platform. So don't just put it on the church. This is this is on you too, right? To to be aware of what does God require of us as followers of Him. Yeah, and that's worship. Yeah, He required it of His people back in the Old Testament, and He still requires it of it.

Consecration And Living Sacrifice

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, of us today, to your point, pulling forward to the New Testament. I mean, you know, that there's no physical altar. There was a there was a physical altar in the Old Testament, but we are the altar now. Romans 12 says, I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies. So before it was the body of an animal, right? Now you present your bodies as a living sacrifice, comma, holy and acceptable to God. And then Paul says, This is your reasonable worship or your spiritual worship. And so I love how he, again, he ties in this self-sacrifice. Well, obviously, we're not talking about literally killing ourselves. Jesus died for us, but in response to that, we say, okay, my motives, my ambitions, my dreams, right? All those things, they die, and it's a living sacrifice. That's an oxymoronic statement. A sacrifice by definition is dead. So why is that? Well, I remember one of my former pastors telling me, because my flesh, Pastor Yommer, wants to crawl off of that altar every day. I got to put it back on there and put the knife of the spirit. And I got to crucify that flesh and say, okay, I have to die so that Christ lives in me. So what does this look like? Well, one of the things in preparation for service that the priests had to do was to consecrate themselves. In Exodus chapters 28 and 29, I'm not going to read them, but I encourage you, read Exodus 28 and 29. 28 deals with the with the clothing. And it was, there was specific clothing. You know, you had the ephod and and these things that represented the people. And so the people were always on the heart of the priest. And as worship leaders, man, do we do do we do we bear this weightiness? Like you were saying, people are coming and carrying all these burdens. And do we feel that? Do we recognize that? And in worship, are we able to enter intercede for them in worship and lifting up those burdens to the Lord? But we have to consecrate ourselves. And then verse chapter 29, there's this ritual preparation. They had to wash and bathe a certain way, and they had to abstain from from certain things, right? And why? It's because this is a sacred word. And we are still called to consecrate ourselves. The Bible says we're a chosen generation, we're a royal priesthood. One translation is we're a peculiar people. So we're in the world, but we're not of it. And so this is now where you have to ask yourself, okay, what worldly influences are am I still attached to? What worldly voices am I still attached to that will negatively impact my ability to represent Christ to the people? And so we start with consecration, and then again, it's it's it's cleansing rituals. And so we don't think they're okay. Yeah, sure, sure.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

So so you you look at a a a priest's outfit at their fit, right? And and you knew as a as a what do you call it? Parishioner? Uh yeah, uh huh. Yeah, parishioner.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, yeah, an attendee, a member.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

You know, like, okay, he's supposed to have that and that just because you uh every time I come, he's been wearing that for for years. Yeah, you know, they've been wearing his attire, and it's in scripture and in Exodus. So the people as they were learning the Torah, they would they would know the priest is required to do certain things, right? Right a little a little later. Is that right? Am I just making it up? Maybe. Okay. Well you are correct. But the point is the people knew what the priest, what his requirements were and what his standard was. Yes. And so they would come in, and if if he was wearing his vest backwards, they'd probably be like, Whoa, what's what's why that why why has he got his his robe on weird? Yeah, it's a little crooked, you know, or hey, you're missing your headgear. Like that became his testament. Yeah, testimony. Yeah. And so if you think about it in our context, it's it's the way we live. Like we we're meant to be a living sacrifice. That's right. So our testimony, our witness is very much what the priest would wear on the outside. Correct. So they didn't know they're how they lived. No, not at all. You know, and it times are so different, but now it's like I I think about social media. Yeah, yeah. I think about platforms that just really expose everything about us and what we like, what we don't like, even if you try to put up, you know, a fake lifestyle on social media, whatever, but everything is so public. Yeah. People are just like just wanting information, they want to know more about you. You know, you they people can even uh Google map where where you live and you know they're if they're creepy like that. And and so nothing is private. And so now those things that the priest would wear on the outside, I I just I I think of it that way as you were talking about, and I just see like my that that has become my witness.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Like the way that I've choose to live in public and in private is the very witness that people are seeing in front of me. And that becomes Pastor Mike says that as leaders, you know, the greatest thing we have is our integrity, right? And so that becomes our credibility before people, and so we have to protect our integrity before the Lord, yes, our our holiness before the Lord, our that pure that purity, yes, because that is what gives us the authority to be able to lead others, yeah, to teach others, and very much like if if you're trying to reach a friend that's far from Christ and you're like, Hey, you you need to come to church, you need to do this. It's like, why would I go to church with you? Like we're drinking buddies, like you know, things like that. Yeah, like if your witness does not line up with what the word of God says, then it's hard for you to lead anyone in general, like period. Absolutely, yeah. And so I I think just going back to the image of the priests and what they were required to wear, that's our witness today, you know.

Handling Holy Things With Care

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Well, I love that you said that because multiple times in scripture, as a matter of fact, you preached on this last year and through the book of Ephesians, you know, the the put off, put on, put away, right? So we are we're called Romans 13, we're called to put on Christ, put off the world. It's almost like grave clothes. Like it's John chapter 9 when Jesus calls Lazarus or John chapter 11. When Jesus calls Lazarus out of the grave, yeah, I mean he had taken grave clothes off. And so to your point, man, we have these new clothes that we we wear the righteousness of Christ, and that looks different. People should look at our lives and say, man, you don't live and and talk and do and espouse the things that my buddies do, my drinking buddies do, man. What what's what's different? Like you said, you know, if somebody didn't know what a priest was or what they did, they would look at Aaron and the rest of the Levites and say, Hey, well, why why are you wearing that? Who are you? And then they could, oh well, I'm I'm a I'm a priest. I serve the most high God. Well, that's what we're called the royal priesthood. The royal priesthood. Because now we are the chosen. Exactly. So if somebody looks at you and says, Man, okay, you know, how how many you don't you don't use profanity? Why is that? Because I'm a Christ follower. Yeah. Man, come on, somebody. I love that. And that's a weighty responsibility for. us as as priests and the the the other the the next thing thinking through this priesthood was that you know they they mediated again they were mediators they were go between so the priests represented the people to God prophets represented god to the people and again this is all about God's desire to live in fellowship with his people right and so the priests had to handle holy things there were sacred artifacts inside of this tabernacle you had the table of showbread you had the bronze laver you had the altar of incense you had the golden lampstand you had the the place of sacrifice you know the most holy place with the holy artifacts inside of it and so when I when I think about that well the holiest thing that I have on the inside of me the holiest person is is the Holy Spirit but I also have the word of God and I have to handle those things rightly but people are also sacred in that they are image bearers of God and so we have a we have a divine responsibility a mandate to lead them well and handle them well handle if you know to handle uh a conversations to handle moments with them whether you're on a platform if you're singing you know from the pulpit if it's if it's outside at a at a worship concert in a field man that's a sacred moment and I think a holy another holy thing we have is just influence. I mean our our influence it's sacred because it is given to us by God. And and so we have to handle those things well and you know one another artifact that the priest had specifically the high priest was he had a bell tied around in wave and as long as that bell was jingling a lingling his acolytes his his his his assistants knew that he was all right right the hem of his he had it on the hem of his yeah so they knew that he was alive and he was because again if he mishandled anything he would drop dead in the presence of the Lord pull him out and they pull him out that's why they had a rope tied around him my Lord Jesus and again we thank God that Jesus became a curse for us.

Worship Leaders Carry Pastor’s Heart

SPEAKER_03 23:55

So Jesus died so that we can live but we still bear a responsibility to handle those things well to handle again like like you were saying Omar I mean you think about social media you think about uh you think money you you you you you you know you think about influence leadership those things are sacred and and so we have a responsibility to handle them in a way number one that honors God and blesses people come on some buying in and so you you said there are mediators priests are mediators between the people and God and I think when people again going back to the term worship leader people almost they they've they've allowed that to be the standard in today's in today's world where the worship leader I believe that's why they've they've been elevated in positions in churches and where um it's a career at this point because it's not just the pastor but it's the worship leader. Yes and I think if you're gonna be held to such a high standard as a worship leader at your church you you also have to carry the burden of of a priest in the same sense that your pastor carries your pastor lives is living a life of integrity of holiness purity you know before God before the people to maintain his witness his credibility is in the word is preparing himself weekly you know is hopefully has that life of devotion to God I think that's the same standard of work that we should require of worship leaders that's good because it's not just the gift that opens the door for you and puts you on the platform because there's a there's a quote I can't think of it right now but like your gift makes a way for you but it's your your character that keeps you that keeps you yeah yeah your gift makes room it gives you in the room your character keeps you there. Yeah yeah and so there's a lot of people that make their way into rooms in so many different places because of their gift but then their character comes out and is like oh this joker you're out yeah and so if we're gonna be in those positions as worship leaders I think you need to carry yourself to the same standard and for me growing up as a musician as a singer as a worship leader my my first official church you know job because I got a check was a music director. I would write I would write music for a brass section so after school after college I'd go to our church and I'd jump on a finale and I'd create charts for our we had a brass section and and so then we just prepare all that for the weekend and then when I moved to Dallas I became a music minister. Yeah and so I'm like all right I'm a music minister and they're like all right go paint the playground and I'm like do music ministers do that like I had to do whatever and I learned serving in the church had nothing to do with the title or position. That's right because I I thought that's what it was yeah but I eventually I eventually learned like when if you're part of the church you did everything yes the Levites did everything absolutely they not they not just only taught but they they cleaned yes they took care of the the the grounds like everything everything yeah but yeah they'd washed off the altar they had to change out the the showbread had to be uh taken out every seven days and replaced so they had to get their culinary on yep they got to bake they got to bake you know what I'm saying they got to wash I mean you you forget man this sacrifice this sacrificial system was bloody so that that altar was always needing to be washed off and sprayed down and and disinfected so yeah I to your point I remember when I I I told my my my former pastor he was the Bishop JD Webb he he he really did like give me like the the the strong foundation like reading the word and I told him I accepted God's call to preach and it was it was 2009.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

And he's like oh man that's awesome maybe here Tuesday night at six okay got there first thing he did was stick a vacuum cleaner in my hand I said okay what am I about to do he said ministry yeah sure enough and I vacuumed that church man every Tuesday now he taught me the word he taught me how to read the word but I was vacuuming that church dusting off them pews I'm like man but to your point so I I first of all something you said man just made me think of first of all that's really powerful about carrying the heart of the people like the pastor so I think about the relationship between Moses and Aaron. God commissions Moses he tells him and he's like Lord I my I got a fat tongue I I stutter okay your brother Aaron will go he'll speak and Aaron in that moment is like it's like he's like a pre-Levite almost because he was there to experience all of God's miracles alongside Moses because he was the one speaking and so to your point it's like Moses is he he is tapped as the deliverer like the shepherd the pastor almost and here you have Aaron like the Levite right he's there with him and I think about I mean my dad he's in menstrual my dad serves as a pastor and when I was younger growing up I would be his traveling musician I was like his armor bearer his aide you know but I was I would play the piano while he would sing. And I just remember man going to revivals and man seeing people man filled with the spirit seeing healings miracles and again I'm not doing the preaching but again I'm like his chief music musician. And I get a front row seat to this ministry to see what the Lord's doing. And Aaron had and the by proxy Aaron is the this pre-Levite had access to that as well.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

Yeah and his responsibility is was to guard Moses and to really move the vision forward that God had given Moses. And so again back to worship leaders in church like only because you get a a a stipend or a check to show up and lead worship that doesn't mean that's all you do. Like the the greatest responsibility most like you know I'm gonna say the greatest responsibility that you will carry in your church organization if you are a worship leader is to carry the heart of your pastor.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:39

I I think I think the worship the song selection all of that will naturally flow out of when you understand the heart of your pastor and what the Lord has called them to do in your community yeah then you know what songs you need to sing. You know what style of music because you understand the heart not and it's it doesn't it's not going to be preference. Yes and that's something like I I've mentioned that on the podcast before when I first came to Life Point I met with Pastor Mike and I'm like all right what type of music do you like? And he's like well if you're asking me what music I like this is what I like. Yeah but you know but we want to lead our church through our values and you know we need to you need to learn your community. Yeah. And so then I understood like okay I'm not gonna lead from preference I'm gonna lead through values and then where the Lord has us and so that's so good. So so it's knowing your your leader's heart is not necessarily leading through his preferences but it's it's knowing what he holds dear, what God's called him to specifically and then when you lead from there you'll know what type of music to pick and all those things will flow from there naturally very much like Moses and Aaron.

Jesus Our Final High Priest

SPEAKER_00 30:39

I think that's a great relationship too absolutely yeah I mean they they had to be super close and there was a trust there. And to your point Elmer I mean there was also a a standard that the priests were held to I mean we think about uh there were two wicked priests Hophani and Phineas they were the son of Eli the the the the the chief priest and to your point they led out of preference they allowed people to bring whatever sacrifices they want to they took the best for themselves instead of bringing it to the Lord and so we saw God he he dealt with them because of that because they led out of out of preference as opposed to leading out of this stand hey what's going to honor God what's going to honor our father our earthly father Eli and and and so to and and again pulling forward now we have this awesome privilege to surrender ourselves to the Lord living sacrifices and say God I want you to shine through me and then ultimately we we have to remember because we are New Testament people that Jesus is our great and final high priest. And because Hebrews talks about how the priests offered sacrifices for the people but they had to offer them for themselves too it says that they were sinful. And so we even we saw Aaron he blew it I mean he messed up and he blew it again the wicked priest Hophani and Phineas you know they blew it and over and over again you read in their prophetical books where you know God is dealing with the leaders through the prophets it's kings it's it's it's uh judges and it's priests that are manipulating and oppressing the people and so Jesus comes as the perfect high priest the final high priest and what makes him so unique is that he he doesn't bring the sacrifice he is the sacrifice and so he's like I am this hey guys you don't have to worry about a lamb I am the lamb and he gives himself for us he's the perfect mediator first John chapter two verse one says hey brothers or he says children I write to you if you sin you have an advocate Jesus Christ the righteous so now he serves as our priest he is our go-between and the priest the high priest was the only one that could go into the holy place the most holy place Jesus says I'm bringing you in there with me I am the holy place I'm bringing you you're here with me that's why he says if you've seen me you've seen the Father he says where I'm going I am taking you with me and he says the kingdom is here with you. So so now we are in the presence of God and so there is no barrier that is full unadulterated access yet there is still this responsibility though. It's like the Old Testament remember they were all called the children of God but they were taught and instructed by the priest so they are in the family of God. So those of you that are saved that are Christians you're in the family of God yet can I can I encourage you you still must be taught and those of you that are worship leaders okay you what whatever whatever that looks like occupationally or vocationally this is no this is kingdom. I'm talking kingdom now we all have an awesome responsibility now to teach those that are in the family of God what what proper worship is. And so we can't leave people where we hadn't been and we certainly can't proclaim a God that we ain't been spending time with and that we don't know.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yeah if you don't know him you can sing songs about him yeah but people will know you don't know him. Yeah absolutely I I tell our teams the great admin the greatest ministry you'll you do on a Sunday is off the platform. It's not what you do on the platform and singing songs or hiding out in a green room it's it's going to lobbies and and and praying for people and being front facing in this in the sense of making yourself available. Yeah people need prayer like oh we have a prayer team no go and pray for people like that's ministry that's the greatest ministry you can make and then when you want to lead people from a platform and introduce certain songs and you're like but no one's listening to me well because they're saying right through you like they're saying that hey there's no relationship with the Lord there's no oil there's no anointing and so you can't we think we can fool the bride but we can't it no this is his church and and he will expose things that are not in order. Come on so just just a caution reminder to me yeah and caution to all of us just you know if we we can't play church we we have to commit our lives to the Lord and and do this the right way.

Recovering Awe And Holy Attention

SPEAKER_00 35:07

Yeah that's so good. Yeah that that that microphone y'all it just amplifies what's in your heart yeah that's all it's gonna do and it's gonna change or transform it just amplifies what's already there. And again just think it through kind of that this this wrap up thought here you know that that's why we really do want you know you think about the the two priests Abahu Nadab bringing strange fire you know this it's just it's uh and I think because we don't live in that context you point Pastor Elmer like the terms holy and sacred they they don't mean as much to us in our Western culture because nothing's really sacred anymore. I mean the human body's not sacred words aren't sacred I mean you know truth those things like they're they're just not held up as sacred even though they are but we still carry a heavy and weighted responsibility you know to to to get this right. And it's not out of fear. To be clear, you know uh John Bever he wrote that that awesome book uh The All of God and and the fear of the Lord it's not being scared of him it's being it's being terrified of being away from him but there is this weightiness there's a heaviness there's a reverence and a respect it's like if the president of the United States were to walk into this studio right now. I mean there will be some respect. We're gonna respect the office of the president of the United States and so how much more does God deserve our respect and our awe not out of fear but it's because of who he is like man you deserve this I want to give this to you and out of doing that I will lead people well. I you know I you know I won't touch the glory I won't I won't touch the gold I won't beat the sheep I will lead the sheep because the great shepherd leads me so well I'm allowing him to lead I love I love what you said that the word holy doesn't carry as much weight and and I think that's sad.

SPEAKER_03 36:51

Yeah you know I think it's something that has been associated to God for for centuries but now you have these songs that are coming out in secular mainstream music and they're calling other things holy and it's it's just it's it's horrible it's it's distorting scriptures distorting you know what holy is yeah and so you see it in relationships you see it in society and just like again you're you see even said sacred yeah marriage isn't sacred to to certain degrees now you know identity is not sacred like there's a lot of things that the Lord says this is how it's gonna be and like we're like well yeah well I I get I could choose yeah you know and so because our human nature has slowly deteriorated what God has said as the standard I think that word holy has lost a lot of weight and even when we sing it in churches it's it's amazing to me that when we are singing songs about God and when we are you know when we are communicating or in a sense I'm trying to think of the right word directing our worships like directly to God and just acknowledging him and like some people like that moment's like whatever is like you so you know it doesn't mean nothing. And I understand for those that are not they have don't understand maybe that they've never been in church is is that's a whole different thing. But for people that have been in church yeah you can you can have 10 services in your at your church right we have three maybe four yeah and we we're probably gonna be four soon as you know as things are growing. Right. But man when you're in worship like every opportunity to be before God's presence like should be like holy yeah it should mean something like but no I I was in that service already yeah we sang the songs and it becomes it becomes more of like something I have to do or or yeah I got to be a part of that a task. But being in if there's anything we could do like David said like I I could dwell in the house of the Lord. Yes you know that I'd rather be there than anywhere else. Right. And we're like oh yes I want to be just like David.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

I wish I could be like David.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:00

But when we have those opportunities we really don't value them as much as we we say we do. And that's where I say that our words have become real cheap. And so even using the word holy at times like we don't understand what we're saying and the the the weight that comes with that because if we really think something's holy that means I'm gonna take I'm Moses took his shoes off like I'm gonna remove everything that I have to do remove to be able to be in the presence of holiness. Yes. And so that means if I'm gonna enter into this moment of worship before a holy king I'm gonna remove everything that's gonna distract everything that's gonna impede me from actually being fully present and I don't think we're fully present. And so that that's my challenge when when I'm in church is just seeing that people are singing to a holy God but not being a hundred percent fully present in the moment because we're not really taking off the distractions. We're not real we're our phone keeps vibrating in our pockets, the coffee's in our hands like I'm tired, whatever, but you're not removing the things that are keeping you from entering into the presence of God because he might want to say something but you you won't be able to hear because you're so not present. Yeah and uh I think that's that's a thing. And so when you say holy yeah I just think of man like we we're missing moments with God and there's so many people in church that say I wish we went deeper with the Lord. I wish we had more time in worship. Like why do we only do 15 20 minutes? Yeah it's like well like you're not even present for the right 20 minutes that we do have like so what's another hour? Yeah yeah you know and so again like one one second in the presence of God will transform your life.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Yes it will like why do you want an hour if you're not even fully present yeah you know and so that's a work I'm sorry I appreciate that like you're preaching brother you know you're making me think of Isaiah six the you know the prophet that king king Uzziah dies and and I and Isaiah he is despondent because he's like man you know Isaiah or Uzziah he got kind of a mixed legacy but he was mostly a mostly good king and then he sees the the Lord the king of of heaven and then they're the seraphim with the six wings and they're flying around and they're and it they're constantly crying out holy holy holy and I while you were speaking I was looking for another scripture it says that there were cherubim flying around and it says that they will look at each other every time that they will look at the Lord they would cry out again holy holy holy holy and I'm like here's these are and these are super natural angelic beings they have capabilities to do things that would blow your mind yeah right like like for all intents and purposes like when you look at them they're like a little g god they're just like divine in nature you know what I mean like like compared to a human being they're supernatural and they have enough common sense to worship God and be enthralled by him. That's the thing about it they are enthralled by him and they have spent you know an inordinate amount of time we don't know time memorial we don't know it's just it's timeless like but they have spent they've been in the full resplendent presence of the Lord and yet they still cry out holy it's almost like it's it's it's like the a bottomless ocean it's like man I I got to a thousand feet there's more I got to ten thousand feet I got to one hundred thousand feet and there is more of God to explore and we have the nerve as his creation to be the only part of his creation the Bible says all of all of the heavens declare the glory of God we're the only part of his creation that has the nerve to say no not me you went over you went over time I was preaching man did I go over time I'm giving an example talking about me I'm giving an example like yeah like I worship but you went over time like man I got I gotta go I gotta go Popeyes is waiting.

SPEAKER_02 42:48

Right?

SPEAKER_00 42:49

Yeah man that I've man I am so glad that's a prophetic word right there pastor hey listen y'all can I just be like the angels don't lose your fervor and your wonder and your awe go read Ezekiel chapter one or read Isaiah chapter six and just see how these angelic beings respond to the presence of God. Just see how they respond. And they've been doing that since they were created like they have never left heaven. And they are they are just like right now they are just as enamored and just as enthralled with God as if they have laid out all lot laid eyes on him for the very first time.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

What that means is that they're fully satisfied being exactly where they are because they know their purpose they know their identity that they serve a God that's almighty. That's it and so just finding satisfaction in what God's called us to do is probably a great place to start. The priest the priest knew that they were chosen that it was a tribe that was selected by God and it was one of the greatest honors. Yes and so and there's a lot of things we can go in history and just like this is what they were allowed to do what they weren't allowed allowed to do and how they were treated compared to the other tribes but it was One of the greatest honors to be able to host the presence of God. Absolutely. And so now it's not limited to a tribe. It's our privilege to host the presence of God, to to you know, to be called the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yes. And to live as a testimony of what the Lord has done in our lives through through the sacrifice of Jesus on Calvary, through his resurrection. Amen. And so now we're that living testimony. Yes. And so it should be our greatest honor. So if you struggle with any of the things that we're talking about, again, go read the scriptures Pastor Willie, you know, referred to and ask the Lord, God, like what is my purpose? What is what am I supposed to be doing? There's one thing, there's an assignment. I think we all have an assignment. Like we're all doing different things, right? And then there's the mandate, hey, go make disciples. That's right. You know, that we're all to do. But then as God's children, then there is what we were created to do, and which is ultimately to worship God and bring glory to Him in all that we do. Yeah. And so if there's anything with my children, they're gonna choose their own career path. They're gonna decide at one one day to do what they feel they're gifted to do and what they're strong in. And that will be their career path. Yep. But as a canas, yeah, like they're gonna, they're gonna hold there, we're we're gonna hold them to the standard. Like you represent our family. Yeah, you know, these these are things that you need to do. Yeah. And so again, whatever you're doing, that's great. Yeah, as far as your career, but but focus on what has God called you to to be as a follower of Jesus. Yeah. And so we could keep talking about that.

MAP Mandate Assignment Purpose

SPEAKER_00 45:34

That's so good. I was uh thinking of an acronym for that as you were saying. So I was thinking map. Map mandate, assignment, and purpose.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Mandate, assignment, purpose. That's great.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Right? So the mandate, that's the great commission. We're all called to make disciples. Matthew 28. That's it. The assignment that could that that's seasonal. That could be a vocation. Hey, what am I doing right now? But then there's purpose. Yeah. I was created, I am on this earth to worship God.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yeah. And your purpose, your purpose can exist within your assignments and within the mandate. Absolutely. 100%. Definitely. Definitely. Come on.

SPEAKER_00 46:12

Let's go. That's a good little acronym, man. We got to use that. Yeah. Seriously. Hey, man, you got your map right? Hey, but you got the wrong map. Hey, that's the problem with the world. They got the wrong map. They got the map. The wrong mandate. The wrong assignment. Wrong purpose. Come on. Seriously, man.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

That's a sermon.

SPEAKER_00 46:27

My God.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Come on, somebody. Come on, somebody. All right.

SPEAKER_03 46:32

We're going to wrap up our podcast today, but we got a special message message from one of our new sponsors.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Okay. So are you ready? I'm ready. All right, here you go. You gonna read it? I'm gonna read it. Here we go. Um, all right. So you gotta read the first one.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Uh go this one. Go the second one.

SPEAKER_00 46:54

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SPEAKER_03 47:42

Y'all could thank Emily Hines for that. Shout out to Emily. Yes, thank you. Hey, this has been great. Yes, sir. I love we came out with MAP. Yeah, man. That's we're gonna we're gonna dig into that and we're gonna just sit on that and to see what the Lord does with that. But we're gonna continue to talk about worship and leadership and all these things. And so I appreciate it. And and a lot of this, the I think the for the next four weeks are the pattern of worship. I think that's what we had discussed. Yes, sir. And so the different things that you know make up what we consider worship. Yeah, but it starts with the person understanding our role, understanding what God's called us. And obviously, we we started with the Old Testament, yes, sir, the original plan. And so Amen. What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_00 48:22

I'm I'm loving it, Pastor. This is good stuff, man. I'm just glad to be back in the room with you, bro. For real.

SPEAKER_03 48:27

Let's go. All right. Hey, well, until next time, we love you guys. Peace out.