Discerning the Voice: AI, Islam, and the Battle for Truth

The world got louder overnight. AI is accelerating the noise, and the real danger isn't the technology itself. It's who shapes it and what values get baked in.

In this episode, we follow a conversation that started with a chatbot and turned into a serious leadership question: what happens when the systems forming our information landscape don't share Christian convictions, and that output gets treated as truth?

We talk about spiritual warfare with a clear head, not superstition and not denial. We unpack what we're calling the convergence, a moment when movements that don't even agree with each other are finding common cause in resisting the claims of Christ. We address Islam as one of the fastest-growing world religions, make the distinction between ideology and individuals, and walk through key end-times concepts like the Mahdi and the Dajjal and why they collide directly with Christian doctrine.

The anchor is practical. John 10 and 1 John 4 give you a filter. Test the spirits. Recognize the Shepherd's voice when everything else sounds polished and persuasive.

Subscribe, share this with someone who needs it, and tell us: what voices are shaping your thinking the most right now?

Transcript

Welcome And AI Recap

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hey, what's going on everyone? And welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast. My name is Elmer Gañas Jr. And like always, my main man Willie Steason.

SPEAKER_00 0:22

What is up, family X? Excited to be here with you all today.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

What's up? Not last week. Just today.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Today. No, today.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Today.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Last week's in the past.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

It's in the past.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

We're starting here, we're moving forward.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

If you didn't hear last week's episode, go back and listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

You have to go back.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Because he was excited last week, too.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

I was. I was very excited last week. And I'm probably more excited this week.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

I am. I'm excited. I'm excited. And uh last week we had a great conversation and we introduced a topic that we probably never talked about on the podcast. And it was on artificial intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

And how it can make us better people.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Yeah, absolutely. How it makes us seem like we're geniuses and we're brilliant and we're so creative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

But all of this stemmed, just kind of going back, it stemmed from a conversation that I initiated with a chatbot that I use. And I was, I said last week, I was off. I took a few days off from work. I was cleaning our shed and doing some reorganizing. And I started questioning my systems, my own systems of how I work and methods and the different tools and resources that I use. And then I started questioning this chatbot, and it went into this trail of questions that began with can AI embrace religion? Yeah. And then it led into conversations about end times. And today we're going to talk about world religions. Yeah. And maybe not all of them, but one specific. Yeah. And so it was a great conversation. A lot of things, obviously, the AI pulls information from the internet and and other resources that are available online for it or its program directly. Right. So it was it was like going to the library and reading like a hundred books at one time. But within a span of an hour. Right. So it was pretty uh insightful.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

Did you, you know, they they talk about every time you you learn something new, Elmer, like your brain gets a wrinkle.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So your brain must be pretty wrinkly, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

It got wrinkly, almost like when you're in the water for too long. Yeah. So yeah. You got a pruny button. My forehead got wrinkled too. Can you do something about that right there? No, I'm kidding. No, but to we want to continue the conversation today. You know, last week we introduced AI. Today we want to move from just AI being a tool and also to if the question was if it's such a great and powerful tool, what happens when it's in the wrong hands? Yeah. And so that today we want to build off of that what happens when it's in the wrong hands, because uh last week you mentioned how it is being programmed specifically by a certain group of people, an elite group of people, right? You know, and uh even the information that's on the internet is really it's not neutral to the world. There's a lot of stats that build the information that we're retaining off the internet and through AI that are specific to groups that governments are doing research on, and but then there's a group of forgotten people. Yes, and so there's a lot of information that's not included into what we're actually learning and building our lives off of when we depend on technology alone and we're not actually going out there with people and and and in our case ministering to the people and being a part you know of their lives, and so it again expose a lot of different things. And today we want to build off of that and go into the next part of this conversation, Pastor Willie, which is what happens when it's in the wrong hands. Right. And we're starting to see more and more in our time more opposition to what we believe to be the truth as Christians. Yes, and and so now the threat of what if AI is in the wrong hands almost feels more realistic than ever before.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Yeah, it's not it's no longer theoretical, it's no longer imaginary, it's real. Like we are we are living in that very reality. And, you know, again, Jesus talks about this, the apostle Paul talks about this. Jesus says that there will come a time that when that people who persecute you and even kill you, they will think that they're doing service unto God. And we see over and over in scripture, specifically in the New Testament, we see, especially through the Pauline epistles, the letters that Paul writes to the church. You know, we're we're starting a series in in 1st and 2 Thessalonians, and and he extols them. He he he kind of really encourages them and gives them a really big pat on the back because the church remains faithful, remains loving, loving, and steadfast in the face of intense persecution and and suffering. Because again, the surrounding systems, the geopolitical systems, view the early church as a threat, uh as a threat to their power, a threat to their influence, a threat to their way of life. And so that's no different for us today. And yeah, like Pastor Elmer said, we're gonna talk about a very specific, uh, how can I put this, a very specific religious movement that is diametrically opposed to Christianity. And it's it's it's not gonna be a surprise to anyone. But again, I do want to caution everybody and just past you in this moment and say that to, you know, today's episode is not meant to instill fear or dread. It is meant to waken you up, it is meant to inform, but ultimately it is meant to encourage us. It's it's it's meant to encourage us to keep our eyes on the one true living God, to keep our our eyes focused on the mission at hand, which is to build the church, and on the Great Commission, which is to go and make disciples. But I think it is important for us as Christians to be informed about the context of which we're living in today.

Urgency Of The Great Commission

SPEAKER_01 6:00

Yeah. It's important. And again, a lot of times as as Christians, as believers, we could just live life blindly and we just put our head down and we're like, I'm just gonna go to work, I'll go to church, go to my small group, and and you just kind of move forward because you're so focused on improving yourself. Right. And and and you want to be a better person. And you know, I want to be more like Jesus and stuff. And so we focused inwardly in ourselves, and then we focus on our families and our community, immediate community, that we eventually forget the mission. Like it's it it's it wasn't always about improve yourself and then go to the world. It's it's go and make disciples of all men and women. And so there's this urgency that you see in the gospels. There's this urgency, you know. I I think it like if you think of Jesus coming for only three and a half years, yeah, three and a half years. Or his ministry. His ministry, like people were probably like, he could have been here longer. But what but what I love about it because we were studying uh the first the first chapter of First Thessalonians, and we saw the impact that the Apostle Paul had on the church in Thessalonica in only three to six months, right? Give or take, what what people think that's the amount of time he spent with them. And you think of that impact and how they were able to go beyond just their own cities and city walls into Macedonia and other places, and then you think about Jesus, three and a half years of ministry, and how the gospel has spread throughout the world, yeah, through the men that he empowered.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

And I and I start thinking of like walking with Jesus in those times. There was this like intense on the job type training.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Like I don't think he was like, hey, show up next week and we'll we'll talk about chapter two. Right, absolutely. I think it was like hours of like you think of the Sermon of the Mount, like Jesus was just downloading, yeah, downloading. You think of the impact in the life of the of Paul, yeah, when he encountered Jesus on the road to Damascus, right? He had this total life transformation. Yeah, and he knew the Torah, but now he knew Jesus too. Yeah, and and and for there to be life change and and such a transformation, like there there had to be this download, not just of the Holy Spirit, but of of knowledge and wisdom that came from God alone. And so there's an urgency in the New Testament, the early church, of moving rapidly and going and making disciple of people. And now we we've systematized a lot of things with church and and not knocking the church, but I'm a lot for our rhythms. It's become part of our calendar, it's become part of our our weekly rhythm. And and there's a place for church, there's a place for small group, there's a place for, oh, I'm gonna read my Bible at this time in the morning and I'm gonna wake up and do my devotional. I have a Bible app. And so everything is really structured because it has to fit our our lifestyle. Yeah. When back in the day it was their life, their life was to go and preach the gospel, yeah. Their life was to go and risk their life just to make sure that others hear the good news of the gospel. And and and I I don't think we have that urgency.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

And then now, as all these things are shifting, and that and that's that's why I say we live with our head down in our own patterns and behaviors and schedules, and it feels good, it looks good, but there's people going to hell, yeah, and there's people believing other things. And and I know we're gonna talk about Islam, and Islam is right now one of the fastest growing religions around the world. That's right. And it's starting to dominate so many spaces and influential areas in from media to entertainment to uh sports and all these other places, and and we as a church can't just be like head down, right? Oh, what chapter of of you know the Bible are you reading right now? What book of the Bible? Yeah, that's great. Grow yourself, invest in yourself, right? But are are we actively, urgently fulfilling the great commission?

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Yeah, yeah, that's good, man. And to your point, I think it's so easy for us to just sort of like, you know what, I'm gonna I'm gonna live here on earth and I'm gonna hold on, I'm gonna struggle with the Lord until I go into the great by and by. And it's so funny, man, because I I got a chance to talk with uh a pastor friend of mine, uh, actually just yesterday about spiritual warfare. And I told him, I said, for most Christians, like we're aware of like spiritual realities to the degree that like I believe in God and Jesus, and I'm kind of familiar with the Holy Spirit. I've I've read about angels and demons, but then we we just kind of stop there. And then so it's easy for us to like let this pendulum swing, like to the for some Christians, the pendulum swings all the way to the right or or one side where you know everything is demonic or everything is spiritual. You know what I mean? I got a you know, my my my foot hurt. That that that's the devil, you know, my my car won't start. That's the devil. You know, traffic, that's the devil. It's like, nah, man, you'll feel like you forgot to put gas in the car. You forgot to put gas in the car and you got gout. Like that's why you look at your toe. It's the size of a softball. Yeah, you need to cut back on the unsaturated fats. And you know, traffic's bad on woman, but because you didn't have gas in your car, you was late, so you got caught in traffic. That ain't the devil, that's you. But then the pendulum swings all the way to the other side where nothing is spiritual. And I'm just heading to saying this, like, oh, we're just having, we're going through a rough time in our marriage, or you know, no, it's just it's just downsides, and that's what it is. Oh no, it's just the economy. It's like, no, there is spiritual warfare happening. There is somebody behind the scenes. There are there are spiritual powers, rules, and authorities that are talked about over and over and over again that are at work. And what we have to do is we have to find what I like to call the happy medium and recognize that there are spiritual, there is spiritual warfare happening, that there are there are two opposing kingdoms, the kingdom of God or the kingdom of heaven, and the kingdom of darkness. And we need to recognize that earth is the battleground for that. That's taking place here. And so, what do we do, Pastor? I mean, when we have these ideologies, like can you just help frame that? Okay, there are some ideologies that Jesus says whoever is not for me is against me. Yeah. So that means any system, any organization, any ideological belief that does not have Christ at the center of it is by definition anti-Christ. It is anti-truth and anti-kingdom.

Spiritual Warfare And Two Kingdoms

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, you think of the story of the rich young ruler, and he he he followed all the rules. Yep. He he knew all the things he had to do, and but he was unwilling to give up certain things to follow Christ. And so it's it's not so much just the ideologies outside of Christianity, it's it's the choice as humans. Am I gonna follow Christ at all costs? Yeah, am I gonna give everything up? Am I gonna put it all down? Am I gonna, you said it last week, I'm uh, you know, the flesh doesn't like the altar. Yeah, am I gonna sacrifice the flesh today, pick up my cross today, and go after what Jesus said? And and I think that's that's where it begins, like making that personal decision daily, the turn to God. And as we make that decision, then then we're able to filter all of these ideologies, all of these thoughts, everything that's been being thrown at us through media and through society, we filter it through the word of God, we filter it through the discernment that we have through the Holy Spirit. And and when but when we operate on our own accord, our own strength, our own wisdom and knowledge, it's so limited. Yeah, it's so limited. And and you could even throw it into AI, and we've talked about how how intelligent it's getting and the progress and how fast it processes. And you can depend on other sources to tell, but that now you're depending on something else to present the truth to you. And it's only again, it's being programmed by other people, and it's so now it's gonna present a truth that is not the truth, it's it's truth. And so, but we know the truth is Jesus Christ, and so that that's why we go back to the word, and that's why we we've always said everything we do on this podcast is gonna be centered on scripture, and so I I think that's what you're asking as far as framing, like you have all these things we you know, let's let's open this can of worms here. There's a thing that I wrote down that I called the convergence observation. Yes, and what I meant by by this was the fact that if you look at society right now, there's there's all these different platforms and different groups of people that are slowly almost like turning against God or the church. There is not they're not probably claiming direct opposition, not all of them, but there is a sense of of, and I'm not gonna say a threat at the moment, but there is a sense of pushback against Christian beliefs and what we stand for as a church. You think of the LGBTQ community, right? And that's it, we know what that what they stand for, right? And then, but now they're partnering with Free Palestine, yeah. Which is crazy to me because what they what what is you know Muslims believe of homosexuality in Muslim countries, absolutely, it's that's means for death.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

And so like when I saw these pictures on the news, like you know, these these videos of of them coming together and converging, I'm like, that's crazy. Yeah, right. That that that would be happening in our time. Yep, you know, and and how even that's been raising up within the church, the Christian church in itself, right? As far as like, well, you know, God is love and all these things, right? And so now scripture is irrelevant to a lot of these people. It's it's it's on in the name of love.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

And that that's one of the things I don't know if you want to talk about.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say, yeah, you to your point, like you have here, you have two movements, again, two ideologies that are diametrically opposed to each other. And it it calls to mind in scripture, in the in all the on all four of the gospels, you see two specific groups that really are diametrically opposed to one another join together in their resistance against Jesus, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. The Pharisees were sort of like the religious every man. They were they would have been akin to like a councilman or councilwoman, right? And they leaned heavily on the supernatural. They I they they they affirmed and believed in the supernatural. The Sadducees were more of sort of like the aristocracy, sort of like the the more the social elites, and they did not. They just they took the word at literal face value, like no, if it's only in scripture, that's it. It's just the words of the Torah. That's it. The words are the Hebrew scripture. And these groups are diametrically opposed to each other, yet they are united. Like you said, again, you would never get a Pharisee and a Sadducee to walk arm in arm on any issue. And here they are now joined together in lockstep in their resistance against Jesus. And so we are pulling forward and seeing this is an example of that. You have two ideologies, two movements, two communities, so to speak, that are diametrically opposed. Again, if an LGBTQ person is living that that lifestyle openly in a uniquely Arab country, they do risk consequences to include death.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

And now, again, so that partnership, it's very alarming and it's very eye-opening, and it's something worth taking note of for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, moving another sort of cadre. Again, we see Hollywood and the sports ownership dimension. Again, there's a convergence there where it's interesting now because athletes are no longer looked at as just those that entertain us. They are now looked at as those that lead us specifically on issues regarding social policy, uh, the economy, voting, all of those sorts of things. And so now they are using their platforms in tandem with Hollywood to shape flow, to shape the tide, so to speak, to shape conversations and even speaking on matters of public policy. And again, you that's just something that this is new. This wasn't something that was a feature in the in the 70s, 80s, or the 90s. Not that athletes didn't have opinions and not that they didn't express those opinions, but those, but again, they weren't key figures in those circles regarding uh civil leadership. They just weren't figures in that. They weren't voices in that. AI investment uh inside of what we call the Gulf states. Again, so this is speaking about in investment in these areas now where I think you and I were talking through like universities and and again places in that in academia that are partnering with with Muslim countries in regarding to in regarding AI technology. And again, this is stuff that you can find for yourself. I mean, we're neither M or I are experts in this. I want you to do the research for yourself, but Jesus makes this statement in the book of Matthew when he he lambasts the farmers, he he lambasts his group, his disciples, his listeners. He's like, because he's speaking to a primarily agrarian society, and he makes a statement, he says, You know how to read the sky and the weather conditions. You make statements like, oh, it's red in the morning or sky's red in the evening, fair weather or bad weather. And he's like, You don't understand the signs of the times. Like you're you're just ignorant of this. And then he he ends that diatribe almost by saying, Where the vultures are gathering, there has to be a corpse nearby. And guys, I'm just telling you, as believers, I'm so glad you said that, Pastor. I mean, we just can not afford to walk around and have ostrich syndrome where we just put our head in the sand and just say, I'm almost waiting until the great buy and buy. And why is it so important? Because these convergences, they ultimately will have an impact on the way that you live out and practice your faith. That is the end goal. Yeah. Is that these will have an impact on the way that you and your family, your children and your children's children will are are allowed to practice and live out their faith. And thank God we do we do live in a context. We live in a part of the world where we can freely practice our faith. We can affirm Jesus, we we can we can gather safely and and and worship publicly, but there will come a day where uh where the US will look like other parts of the world where it is literally outlawed to profess the name of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah. And and we're starting to see more and more of it. And and I just give props to the people that are out in the entertainment industry, that are making movies, television shows, to artists that are out there recording music, athletes that are working hard to reach high levels of competition and and you know, and to be out there that are promoting Jesus. And it's it's getting it's less and less that you're seeing it without opposition. Yeah. And and so we just continue to pray for those of you that God has opened those doors for you to go to these levels of of excellence and uh professionalism in those spaces, and even politicians that that are proclaiming the gospel in their spaces because God's called us to be the light, the salt and the light of the world. Yeah. And so thank you guys for rising up and and going to work and and and not just these people that are celebrities or or public figures, but for for you and me, for people that just wake up every day and and you're willing to stand firm on what the word says and be light and not be ashamed. Romans says, I'm not ashamed of the gospel, like like and to be able to go out and with authority just live the life that God's called us to live. And so props to to all of you that are doing that in a time that the the world is trying to quench our light and just just put it out. Yeah, put it out. And and there will be a time that people will be driven by fear. Yes. And at that point, back to what we read last last week, John 10. John 10. John 10, 27. 27. Like my sheep know my voice. That's it right there. And so, do you know the shepherd's voice? AI technology. Technology, it can fool you. Like my my my five-year-old was watching reels with me the other day, and we're like watching some funny clips, and then all of a sudden there's this weird clip of like an animal coming up to a baby, and he goes, Oh my gosh, yeah, that's crazy. And and I'm like, son, that's not real. That's AI. And he goes, What's AI? He goes, but that looks so real. Wow. And then I showed him my actual video, like, and he goes, That's AI. That's AI. And then that became his joke the whole day. That's AI. Everything's AI. That's AI. Because you can tell now, like, there's the you could so easily, easy, easy blee, easy blee. Easily easily. I made up a word. He made it up. Easily be deceived or manipulated by what you see and what you hear through technology. And now, even through ideologies, and even through sports and the influences and the media and entertainment. So there's so many voices speaking to us in this time of age, you know. And do you know the shepherd's voice?

Convergence Against Christian Convictions

SPEAKER_00 22:55

My God in heaven. So, since Elmer, you already opened up that can of worms, you know, talking through this ideology. I think it's important for us to understand why we're having this conversation in regards to Islam. Islam, like you said, is one of the most populous religions in the world. At last count, let's see here. Yeah, at last count, I want to say, and again, this this number, I'm pretty sure it's it's it's it's probably grown exponentially, but I want to say over one billion people in the world adhere to Islam. And if if they're not fully devoted, and in some form of fashion would identify themselves as a Muslim. Again, that that number could be, that's probably a conservative estimate. And that number is growing and and it's rising. And again, the reason why it's so important is because we have to understand, first, and first let me say this the issue is not with Muslims, it's with the ideology of Islam. As it is directly in opposition to the Christian faith, because of what Islam, first of all, states is true about God, states what is true about people, and states what's true about the end of all things, about the end of days, right? And so when we look at Islam, we have to understand that the ideology regarding Islam is diametrically opposed to Christianity because Christians are called to peace. And in Islamic ideology, they're calling us for war. And so we have to be careful in understanding what is taking place in all of these spheres that Pastor Elmer and I have been talking through when we talk about the end goal. I love what you were saying earlier, Pastor Elmer, just about recognizing, okay, what is what's shifting, what's taking place, and what's the end goal. And the end goal, okay, is it's conquest. The end goal is subjugation. It's it's not peace, it's not, it's not even evangelism, it's not even conversion. The goal is conquest. And Jesus comes as the Prince of Peace. Jesus comes to establish a kingdom where those that are in that kingdom can have both both peace with God and peace with one another. Like the goal is to spread this kingdom of heaven, and that is not the goal of Islam. The goal of Islam is conquest. As a matter of fact, in in Christian ideology and in Christian doctrine, we have the Great Commission, which is to build disciples, is to make disciples. We want to win more and more people into the Christian faith. We want to expand the family of God. And so those who are not Christ's followers, non-believers, the goal is to win them to Christ. And that's not the goal in Islam. The goal in Islam is for unbelievers that are called infidels, is for their death and for their destruction. That is what Islamic ideology teaches. That is what Islamic ideology affirms. And so it's important for us as Christians to understand that because you have this ideology that is that is becoming more and more influential in the world. And so we want to see the Christian ideology become more influential in the world because its goal is to establish peace. Its goal is to establish love and harmony that is centered on Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah. And I I heard, I heard on uh, you know, there's a preacher that I follow, and and he was just kind of breaking down some eschatology for Islam. And again, I want to do the research myself. Sure. And so I'm not saying this is true, but I I I have not studied the Quran in the way that this guy proclaimed to. But he was saying that their the purpose of Islam wanting war was because it leads to their end time, you know, whatever's gonna happen at the end times for them, as as far as like the the rising of their savior, whatever it's called.

Islam As Ideology Not People

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Um yeah. So there's a figure in S in Islamic eschatology. And the word eschatological it means it's it's it's end times. You know, eschatology talks about end times or or or final things. So every religious system, every major religious system has some sort of eschatological viewpoint. Like every religious system talks about the end of days, how the world will end, how creation ends, whatever that looks like. Every major religion, including Islam, has eschatology. And so in Islamic eschatology, there are two primary figures that are mentioned that are mentioned. One is called the Mahdi. And Islamic eschatology describes this end time figure as sort of a messiah, he's a messianic ruler who comes to do several things. Number one, to unite the Islamic world, to establish a global caliphate. What is a caliphate? That's that's the ruling body. That's the it's like this religious ruling body. So think like Sanhedrin, right? Think the Sanhedrin. I mean, these are these are Jews who are religious leaders, but they have governmental authority. He wants to make a peace agreement. This Mahdi figure wants to make make a peace agreement with a specific Western or Jewish power. Okay, so think like contract or covenant, and then at some point in time, this Mahdi figure will break that contract. At some point in time, again, Eschatali doesn't say when, but at some point in time breaks this contract. And what's interesting about that, Pastor Elm, is that in Daniel 9.27, there is the description of this figure who is the Antichrist ultimately, who confirms a covenant and then midway through breaks that covenant. And you, when you fast forward to the book of Revelation, what the Antichrist does is he establishes this one world religion, this one world government. There's, and so either it's the same currency, you can't buy or so without it, but it's like, hey, this is gonna be good for everybody. And then midway through, three and a half years into this agreement, he breaks it. And in breaking that contract, this antichrist figure sets himself up as God or Messiah, as rescuer and deliverer. He sets himself up as God and he demands worship. So this figure in Revelation is the Antichrist. In Islamic eschatology, the direct parallel is he is the Mahdi. So in Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi is a savior. He is a positive figure, a protagonist. In Christian eschatology, this same figure is the Antichrist, he is the antagonist. So that's the first layer of the inversion. The second layer of the inversion, jumping back into Islamic eschatology, there's another figure who is called the Dajjal, the Dajjal. And this is viewed through Islamic eschatology as a false messiah. Listen, listen to how he's described. He's just this individual described as having one eye, riding on a donkey, claiming to be God, and being followed by Jews and people of low status. Some writings say that they're Jews and non-Muslims or infidels. And what's striking about this is that it's almost a direct one-for-one trans or description of Jesus. So Jesus doesn't come with one eye, but Jesus is described as a lamb who is slain. He does suffer a grievous injury. And John talks about hearing about this conquering king, but he sees a lamb that is slain. And this king, it's interesting, Jesus comes riding into town on a donkey. He comes riding into town on a donkey. Jesus also claimed to be God on multiple, multiple occasions. He would reference himself, the I am, before Abraham was, I am. I am the son of God. He tells the woman at the well, can this be the Messiah? And he says, I that speak to you, I am he, I am the Messiah. Furthermore, furthermore, what's what's also interesting is that the this Dajjal figure is followed by Jews and by people of low status. And Jesus comes onto the scene and invites everyone to follow him, specifically outcasts. The Bible says sinners, prostitutes, and adulterers were reclining at table with him. Right? Reclining at table with him. He says, Suffer the little children to come unto me. He hangs out with the lepers and he hangs out with those of low status who are considered unclean or considered untouchable. And so you can already see from an eschatological viewpoint that Islamic and Christian ideology are already at odds because their central figures are described diametrically opposed. What Islam views as evil, Christianity views as righteous. And what Islam views as righteous, Christianity views as evil. So you can already see just from that. And listen, that's just a foretaste of some of the ideologies there that we're talking through. And again, we're not experts on this, but this is information you can freely go research for yourself. But we want you to be aware and understand this is what Jesus is talking about constantly when he says, those who are not for me are against me. And he talks about this, these there are these kingdoms. And so as Christians, we just have to understand that what happens in the supernatural becomes realized in the natural where we are at. And so those principalities and these powers, just like the spirit works that the Holy Spirit works through people, we have these supernatural powers, these rulers, these authorities, this dark powers, they are working through people as well.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Anything that is in opposition to God, anything that is causing you or pulling you away from the Lord, like that, that is, I will say, antichrist, because it is it is an opposition to God and it's gonna just pull you away from the Lord. And um I I get to speak to our students tonight, and part of the the sermon is I'm gonna be referencing to Matthew 5 and how Jesus calls us the light of the world, and and for us to shine our light, uh, for others to see our good deeds, and ultimately to glorify our Father in heaven. Yes. And the beautiful thing in that is that you know, in such a dark world, you think of light in dark places, as long as there's light, there is no darkness. Amen. And and what I was gonna say before you went into this awesome thing that I probably would not have been able to share, excuse me, was that that in Islam their goal is to provoke war. Yeah, because it will call it'll lead to the rise of the Mahadi. Yeah, that's the Mahdi. And but in for us, the mission is as the church, we want to prepare the bride. We want to spread the gospel to the ends of the earth, right? Because we want everyone to hear before the return of Christ. Yeah, like that's our goal. We want to spread this good news of love and peace, and you know, of who Jesus is, yeah, and of the story of a God who loves them so much that he's he's willing to find and rescue people exactly where they're at, right? Right. And not leave them where they're at. And and so again, to the what you're saying, the parallel of war versus spreading the good news. Absolutely. You know, and and so that's that's important to be aware of in the time. And so again, we're not claiming to be experts in this, but but through scripture, we do want to bring an awareness to how you're interacting with things in society, what you're hearing in the news, you know, and all these different things that are coming at us. Ultimately, do you know the voice of the shepherd? Yes, do you know the voice of the shepherd? Do you know the voice of the shepherd? That that's like get that in your spirit. Yes. I was talking with someone on our staff earlier today, and we're talking about discipleship again, back to that urgency of what Paul was able to do in Thessalonica in just three to six months. And just that download. Yeah, like are we willing in this day of age like to invest just as much time? Say, say Pastor Mike said, Hey, for the next two weeks, every single day for two hours at night, I want everyone to come to church and I'm just gonna download everything I know. Yeah, like are people willing to make that sacrifice and be here?

SPEAKER_00 35:33

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Because they want to know everything that that God's taught our pastor that He's know that He knows so He can lead us so we could be prepared. Yeah, like I I don't know. Like I wrestled with that when I was thinking about that in that conversation. I'm like, man, like we're willing to do travel ball. We're willing to drive our kids and fly our kids and take them everywhere and anywhere because we want them to move up on in, you know, in in on the roster on the depth chart, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

On the depth chart. Yeah, yeah. But are we willing, like you said, I mean, these things, they they'll all pass away. Yeah, like the only thing that will live forever is your soul. Like you will spend eternity somewhere. Not only that, but Jesus talks about only, or Paul talks about what only what you do for Christ will last. And I appreciate that question there. I mean, like again, if Pastor Mike was like, hey man, listen, I'm gonna do a two-week symposium, eight to ten, every day for 14 days, and I will download, I would teach you literally everything that I have ever learned.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

Like, that's what Paul did.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

That's exactly what he did. He arrived in cities, and the first place he would go into the synagogue. That's the first place he would go is to the synagogue. Because he's like, hey, listen, there's some people here that need to be taught and led. That's what I'm here to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

And I and I can just imagine hours and hours. Yes. The one story of he's preaching so long, someone falls out of a window.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

He would get falls out, man. He's exhausted. And my lord, he he dies. He just goes downstairs and was like, You're no longer dead. Get back up. Get back up. And he just keeps preaching.

SPEAKER_01 36:54

Because he he was preaching under the anointing.

Islamic End Times And Inversions

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Under the anointing. Yeah, absolutely. You know, that there was, I appreciate that thought that you were, that you gave really about, again, the voice of the shepherd. And why is this important? Because all of us are led by something or someone. All of us are led by something or someone. And so we have to, and listen, you you can't microwave this. You can't uh what's the what's the not the crock pot? You can't instant pot this. It's time with the shepherd sheep. You just have to spend time with the shepherd. And then you you get to know his voice, you get to know his heart, and you get to just recognize, okay, that doesn't sound like Jesus, because I've been spending time with him. And then there's, I think there's another great litmus test, Pastor Elmer, if you allow me, just 1 John 4. Yeah. And I love how it's subtitled in the ESV Bible. It says, test the spirits. And then he says, beloved. So he's talking to, he's talking to church family now. He says, beloved, do not believe every spirit. Don't just just don't drink the Kool-Aid wholesale. Just don't take wholesale what everybody said. Oh, well, that's true because it sounds right. No, no, no, no, because they said it. He says, Don't believe. He says, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. So if anybody's speaking from a certain place or platform, okay, what's the ideology driving that? And he says, test to see where they are from God. So he says, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. So he's saying there's already false teachers already out, false messiahs. Verse 2, he says, By this you'll know the spirit. Here's how you're gonna know. Here's the litmus test. Get your pens out. This is how you're gonna know. He says, every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. And we just talked about an ideology that calls the Messiah, that calls Jesus the false Messiah. The Dajjal is looked at as a false Messiah, meaning he ain't from God. And verse 3, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. There it is. And then he says, This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, but listen to what he says, Omar. He says, and now is in the world already. So hey, church family, look at me when I say this. This spirit of Antichrist is already active in the world today. He's already active. This this antichrist figure, this figure opposed, diametrically opposed to Jesus, this spirit is already at work. And then he says, in verse 4, little children, he says, You, however, you are from God, and you have overcome them. Who have you overcome? Those false prophets who are led by this antichrist spirit. And he says, For he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. Who's in the world that this antichrist spirit is in the world? And he says, The one who's in you, God himself, the Holy Spirit, God the Spirit, is greater than the one that is in the world. Now listen to this. He says, They, who is they? He's the Antichrists, these Antichrists. They are from the world, these false prophets. Therefore, they speak from the world and the world listens to them. So I'm saying it's because of that convergence. This is why you're seeing that convergence. Because you have this Antichrist spirit that's already in the world. And so the world's already aligned with that. So that's why you're like, wow, how in the world can these two diametrically opposed organizations connect? Because they're already in one's in the world, and the world wants that. So that there's already an affinity there. And then he says, verse six, we are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us. So as we're sharing the gospel, as we're talking kingdom things, those that are from God, they're gonna be like, oh yeah, man, there's another brother right there, man. So that's why you ever, Elmer, have been talking with people. I remember when I worked at Under Armour, and uh, got a chance to link up with a really good brother's name is Jesse Allen. Man, I love you, Jesse. And he and I, we're still regular friends to this day. And I was there for about two weeks, and he he told me one day, you know, I was working in the gym there on site, and he's like, hey man, he's like, I just want to let you know, uh, I knew that you were a believer because I had prayed with him one day, and I said, Well, what make what made you say that? He's like, Man, sometimes you just look at somebody and you just know. And specifically, he said it was because of the fact that I was one of the only senior managers there that never used profanity. I didn't cuss. And he was like, there was just something different about you, man. But it as I began to just talk with him and and like just disciple him, he received what I had to say. And this is what he's saying here. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us. So that's how you know that somebody is from God if they're receiving what you're saying, if you're giving them scripture, if you're calling them to repent, if you're encouraging them in the word, they're gonna receive that. And then he says, Whoever is not from God does not listen to us. So the world will never want to listen to Christians. That's why you feel that tension and that, what'd you say, that pushback, that resistance is because the world is not from God. And so the world will not want to listen to you. The world will reject you, they will rebuff you, and they will rebuke you 100%. And then in some parts of the world, they will take it a step further and they will make an attempt on your life. But then he says, By this, we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. The spirit, capital S of truth, spirit lowercase of error. Yeah, and that's how we can discern and walk wisely in this world and recognize and say, okay, that ideology, that messaging, that's that's not from God. Because that ideology does not affirm that Jesus, first of all, came in a body, in a real human body, and that Jesus is from God.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

So good, man. And I I I think one of the things I want to touch one of the subjects. Okay. But one of the things that we do have to be mindful is that that is Islam is contrary or correct, correct my phrasing, is in opposition to Christianity.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

100% diametrically opposed as far as the ideology. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:29

But Muslims, just like an atheist, are part of for us as Christians, the mission field. 100%. We love them and we pray for them. And so if you have neighbors or friends or family members that are Muslims or Buddhists, or pray for them and continue to believe that they will encounter the truth and that they would have a moment like Saul on his way to Damascus where he encounters the G the very same Jesus that they persecute. Yeah. And so, and that's that's part of it. I do want to touch this because again, I earlier I said it's easy for us or it can be easy for us to live life and just bury our heads in our routines and bury our heads in our own spiritual development as individuals. Let's talk about the church, the church that looks away. So, what happens when community communities or in churches refuse to engage in these hard conversations? I know I was like, hey, Pastor Willie, like I this is the tr the rabbit trail I've been in, like just in this conversation with the chat bot, and I'm like, it it really led me into a lot of provocative thinking. And and and then we're like, let's talk about it on the podcast. I'm like, Are you sure we should talk about it? You know, but it was it's this is all part of bringing awareness. And so again, but what happens in communities where like it's refused, like we're not gonna talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Sure. So I believe number one, when the church looks away, we're in danger of becoming reactive. So what what I mean by that is so we we we look away, and again, we gotta Remember, man, the kingdom of darkness is always at work, the kingdom of heaven is always at work, and the kingdom of darkness is always at work, too. And so then when we see these things kind of rise up and pop up, now the church becomes alarmist. And we we run the risk now of conflating adherence to other ideologies and we demonize them and we villainize people, the very people that God calls us to love and to win to Jesus. That's that's number one. Number two, I think the the church runs the risk of becoming an ineffective voice in the world. Like you said, we're called to be salt and light. And Jesus says, What good is salt if it loses its savor? It's just good to be thrown over the shoulder and trampled on the foot. And he says, No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. And so that's what happens when the church looks away, is we become like flavorless salt or hidden light. And so now we have to remember, and I love how Pastor Mike says this, the church, which is the ecclesia, we're the called out ones, is the only organization on the planet ordained by God to carry forth the gospel. There are awesome parachurch and Christ-founded organizations. Absolutely, tons of great ones. But the church, the Capital C church, is the only organization on the planet that is actually meant to be that global force for good in regard to gospel proclamation. And so when we turn away from these things, we rob ourselves of the opportunity to speak into them. That's number one. And then number two, we're actively disobeying God. He it's called the Great Commission, not the great suggestion. Come on, somebody. And so we are actually mandated to walk into these spaces and to speak into them. It's Paul walking around through the Areopagus. And he says, Friends, Romans and countrymen, I see by your many temples that you are religious. I can see it. You even have a shrine to the unknown God, just in case. And he says, I want to talk to you about that God there. He walks into this space, this civil, religious, socioeconomical space, and he says, Hey, I want to, I'm here to bring some clarity and some revelation to a God that you haven't considered. You have Zeus and Athena and Harry's and all of these. I'm here to introduce you to Yahweh. And so now in this 21st century context, we have gender, we have sexuality, we have wokeism, we have racism, we have money and power and greed, all of these gods. And we as a church now get to step into those spaces there, like you were saying, thank God for the athletes and the politicians and enterers and leaders who are Christ's followers because that's what they're doing. They're saying, hey, listen, can I introduce you to Yahweh? Yeah. Let me introduce you to a guy that you haven't considered yet. And so that's what we have to, we can't look away, we have to look into.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

I love that. I love that. And and for the church that stays grounded, what what it looks like for us to be constantly making not again, and we've said this this whole time. We're not trying to provoke fear or erase fear at all. No. Sometimes it's scary. Sure. Because you could be walking on the edge of a cliff and not know it. Yeah. And then someone tells you, hey, you're on the edge. And you're like, Oh, I am. Yeah. And it's it gets you thinking, and you're like, what am I doing here? Why am I here? How did I get here? You know, all these things. So it's scary when it makes you think. Yeah. And I don't think we want to think. Yeah. I think, I think, I don't think. You know? And so I believe that society is so driven by what we see on on social media, on videos, YouTube, everything, content feeds us nowadays. And it easily leads us down paths that like we're we're not even deciding on our own. But but a lot of people are okay with that. They're okay with just following the voices and and going in the direction of culture and society. And okay, all right, that religion is a thing. All right, let's go. Let's do it, let's do it. Yeah. And it's so easy again to be manipulated when you don't know the voice of the shepherd. Yeah. Going back to that. And so the reason why, again, we did decide to just bring these two episodes up and this content was because we want you to be aware of what's happening. Yes. These are real things that are happening in your lifetime. All of us are using AI at some capacity. It's built into our phones now. Yes. You've had Alexa for decades, and and you, you know, there's a lot of AI that we we're already integrating with in our homes, in our vehicles, at work. A lot of it is taking over your workspaces. And if you don't keep up with it, you know, you risk the the opportunity, you know, you might risk your job. Yeah. So all of us are engaging with it, but you have to be mindful of whose voice do you follow? Whose voice do you follow with the religions, all the things happening around the world, politics, athletes, movies, whose voice do you follow? And that should be the voice of the shepherd. Amen. That's good. So that's full circle. Full circle. This is the reason we brought this up because there's a lot of voices and they're getting louder without it being loud. Yeah, that's good. They're they're taking up more space, they're filling us up more, and the volume is just, it's it's so it's barely there.

Test The Spirits And Discernment

SPEAKER_00 49:17

And that's that that's the subtle part. I'm so glad you said that, Pastor Elmer. Because it's certain it's surreptitious, it's covert. The Bible says that the devil masquerades as an angel of light. So he doesn't come to you as a red guy with a pitchfork and horns. He looks like an angel. And again, like you said, so so these voices that are again same, they're not yelling, they're not boisterous. As a matter of fact, I think though those voices that are super, super loud, they just get ignored. They they get tuned into white noise. And so the devil's just crafty. And he's like, okay, well, I'll just shift the strategy. I'm gonna come at you and I'm gonna be smooth-lipped, I'm gonna be silver-tongued, I'm gonna be very reasonable, logical, I'm gonna be very well put together. I'm gonna I'm gonna astound and feel like I'm knowledgeable, I'm gonna set myself up as an expert. I'm gonna be very charismatic and I'm gonna be very magnetic. And yes, there's good, oh wow, okay. Man, they just sound so sophisticated and it sounds so well thought out. Absolutely, yes. And so that's what we have to go back to John 10. Man, okay, does this sound like Jesus? We gotta go to 1 John 4. Hey, let me test that. Let me, you I re you remember Elmer being a science class? I remember, man, sixth grade, Northeast middle school, Mr. Harris, one of my he was one of my favorite teachers. And we learned about litmus paper. You know, the litmus paper, it would change color depending on the the solution. You know, if it was basic or if it was acidic, it would, it would, you know, pH below seven or pH above seven, it would change, it would change colors.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

We would test it. And it's funny because you go look at a solution and it's a clear liquid. And you say, okay, well, I'm gonna let the litmus paper let me know what this is. Why? Because you test one liquid and it's pure water. You test the other one and it's bleach. Come on. They both look exactly the same. I want to nourish you, but want to kill you. And so we have to be the word I'm hearing is discerning. I think it's what you were saying. You know, we have to be discerning. Charles Spurgeon said discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It's knowing the difference between right and almost right.

unknown 51:11

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

It's the detail. The detail. The detail. The fine print. It's like Willy Wonka.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Going into that hotel room and signing the paper without looking at the fine print. That's the the one where the um the prequel, right? Where he you know what I'm talking about?

SPEAKER_00 51:30

Yeah, yeah, the one with uh Johnny Depp, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:32

Uh no. Which one are you talking about? The newest one, the musical.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Oh, I hadn't watched the musical, man. You haven't watched it? No, I I watched, I watched the one with Johnny. You know, of course I'm I like the OG. And with uh with Gene. Gene Hackman? No. Gene Wilder. Gene Hackman.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

I thought that's what Jacob said.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

He said he did say Gene Hackman. I'm like, nah, brother. He wouldn't Willie Walker. It'd have been a very different movie if Gene Hackman wasn't in it. It would have been a lot of snap necks.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

Oh, but in the musical, it's it's like how he invented his chocolate. So he goes through that. So it's this kid like going to a certain city and he's looking for a place to stay, and he gets kind of tricked into staying at this hotel, and they make him sign this contract, but he doesn't read the fine print. Like some girl from the back says, like, read the fine print, read the fine print, and he didn't hear her. And then he signs it, and then after he signs it, then the lady opens it up and it's like a roll of things, and they charge for soap and this and that. And he ends up having to be like their slave to pay off his debt after one night of staying there, and so it's Wow. Read the fine print.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Brother, that's a message right there. Man, that is a word there, Elmer. Man, read the fine print.

Final Encouragement And Share

SPEAKER_01 52:56

Read the fine print, bro. Oh man, hey, this is great. Again, for those of you joining us every week, we we appreciate you guys. Share the share the podcast with your friends and families and those that you believe will benefit and be blessed by by what we're talking about and the content. And Pastor Willie, it's always a pleasure. Yes, sir. Jacob, always a pleasure, bro. And uh again, we do this for you guys and because we want to lead people to become fully devoted followers of Jesus. And so the content was a little different the last two weeks. Yeah, but we we want to, we're developing leaders. That's it. And so we we're just bringing awareness to some of these conversations.

SPEAKER_00 53:32

Amen. Hey guys, love you guys. Till next time, peace. Peace out.