You Can’t Schedule Revival (But You Can Be Ready for It)

Revival is real, but it’s not something we build. In this episode, we explore what Scripture actually says about awakening and renewal through Nehemiah 8, Jonah and Nineveh, Ezekiel 18, and Revelation 2. We talk about leadership resistance, delayed obedience, and why personal surrender is often the unlocking factor for everything around us. The big idea: revival is a rhythm, repentance is a posture, and worship is the fruit.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

Transcript

Welcome And Fresh Banter

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Hey, what's going on everyone, and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast. My name is Elmer Cagnas, and like always, my main man right here, Willie C. Simpson Jr.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

The robot baby. Willie C. Robot? That's it right there. I am here to boogie for Jesus and exegete the scriptures. Okay. What have you been watching?

unknown 0:40

I don't know, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

I don't know. I just, you know, every time we do the intro, man, I try to come with something new. Just keep it fresh. Yeah, just keep it fresh.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

We're giving it fresh, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Come on, man. Where my B boys, my B girls at, you know what I'm saying? Break dancing. He said calculating freshness quotient. It's over 9,000.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Okay.

Revival As Heart Posture

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Oh, man. We're gonna have fun today, man. We're gonna have fun. We have fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

We're talking about we are talking about worship and revival in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

Come on, somebody.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

We're my Pentecostal brothers and sisters. Let's go. Lord, would you revive us again, oh God, because we serve a God who can breathe life into dead things and He delights in doing the impossible.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Amen. Come on, somebody. I see that. Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

So when we talk about revival, it's easy for us to think about revival, Pastor Elmer, as an event, as like a thing that happens. You know, we have the Broad Street Revival, we have the Azusa Street Revival, the first and second great awakenings, which again are events that we can put pins on to say, wow, this is when God moved. We can see, you know, specifically and we can see concretely that the Spirit of God moves for sure. And so if we are not careful, we will relegate revival to an event that happens, and therefore we will think that we must do things to plan for those events, to produce those events. I would submit to all of us that are tuning in today that revival cannot be planned, but I think that it can be prompted. I do, you know, the our one of our last episodes, you know, we talked about spiritual conditions. It was unity. We talked about how there are conditions that that we can help to contribute to that will cause the spirit of God to hover and bless because God blesses unity. And so I believe theologically that God always wants to do a new thing, right? Like Pastor Mike has taught us that God who never changes is always up to something new. So I believe today, just like in times past, that God desires to do a new thing in his people. He desires to revive. The resurrection is proof that God is always looking to breathe life into dead things, in the dead situations, in the dead people. And so I believe that we can prompt revival because revival starts with a posture of the heart.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

It does. And revival really, like you're saying, there's there's a lot of different events that events that have been identified as moments of revival. More recently, Asbury University, there's revival that happened there for I believe days. It was days, yeah. Multiple days. People were traveling from all over the country to Asbury University to see what was happening. Recently at Southeastern University, correct? They canceled classes and they kept meeting and gathering, and they would just send the students out to go take a quick shower and eat and come back. And then, like some of the other ones that you mentioned, and it's easily easy to put an event date on something, but I think the most important part about revival is it's what is it? It's it's like what what is happening during that time? Is it just a large gathering of people? Is that what we're crying for? God, send more people to this room, fill this room up. Is that what we're asking for when we pray for revival? Or is it turning of the hearts, a transformation of the hearts, repentant? Right. Those are the things that as we're talking about that today, we want to bring clarity to what is revival, and even share some scriptures and even some biblical instances where revival happened both for those that were considered the people of God and pagans, Gentiles, uh, different people. And so we we want to talk about that. Uh I do want to start, and and we didn't get to really talk about this before we jumped on and hit

Nehemiah 8 And Word-Centered Renewal

SPEAKER_03 4:40

record, but I want to start with Nehemiah. Okay. So the the story of Nehemiah is he they're the people of God, they're in exile, and slowly they're coming back to Israel, to Jerusalem. Jerusalem, Jerusalem. And Nehemiah advocates to rebuild the wall that had been destroyed. And so he he gets to a place where they rebuild the wall and they restore the city. But then there's there's a moment where where Ezra reads the law. Yes. And then as he's reading the law, the scripture describes maybe we look we could even look it up. Sure. As he's reading the law, there's something that is happening in the hearts of the people. And these are the people of God, the children of Israel, that have returned from exile back to their to their city. Right. And as he's reading this law, there's just something that's happening in their hearts, and some begin to to weep. And I believe there's repentance happening. Yes. And they're turning back to the Lord, you know, who's kind of brought them back home. Right. In a sense. And yeah, I was reading that last night. I'm like, that's a that's a moment of revival.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Well, you're right. Yeah. So yeah, Nehemiah 8. This is when this happens. And it's an it's a beautiful picture of revival. And I'm glad you brought this example because I was thinking through that too. Again, because this isn't classically what took place in these other events. So here we are, Nehemiah, chapter 8. So the temple's being been rebuilt, the walls have been rebuilt, the people are celebrating. And so now what has happened? And here we are in chapter 8. Ezra, who is a scribe, he's a priest. And remember, priests, they didn't just give sacrifices unto God on behalf of the people, they taught the people the law. So it says here, verse 1, chapter 8, all the people assembled with a unified purpose. There's a word unity again. Square just inside the water. Again, I'm reading from the New Living. They asked Ezra the scribe to bring out the book of the law of Moses. This is the word of God, which the Lord had given for Israel to obey. We have to start there. Revival starts with the word of God. You can't talk about revival if you're not talking about the word. They're all gathered, and verse 4, Ezra the scribe stood on the high wooden platform that had been made for this occasion, and all these people are standing to him. Ezra praises the Lord, and the people chant and then they begin to shout. Okay? Then Nehemiah, verse 9, the governor, Ezra the priest and the scribe, the Levites, were interpreting for the people said to them, Don't mourn or weep on such a day as this. So now they're continuing to listen to the words of the law. Okay? Verse 13. On October the 9th, the family leaders of all the people, together with the priests, the Levites, met with Ezra, the scribe to go over the law in greater detail. As they studied the law, they discovered, listen to this, the Lord had commanded through Moses that the Israelites should live in shelters during the festival to be held that month. They made a proclamation. So they're reading all of these things that they're doing. At the end of verse, the end of chapter 8. Ezra read from the book of the law of God on each of the seven days of the festival, on the eighth day, they held a solemn assembly, as was required by law. Then, chapter 9, the people confess their sins. So it's stop. Ezra comes, and here's what's key. The unity starts with the leadership. It's Nehemiah who's like the governor, it's Ezra who is the vision. There's vision cast. And there's agreement among leadership. Because it talks about all these. I didn't read the list, but there's a list of a bunch of Levites, priests, leaders, and they're all in agreement. This is what we're going to do. It says they studied the law. They looked at it first, and then they proclaimed it to the people. So there has to be unity first. So first, it's starting with humility. They go to the word of God. They humble themselves and say, hey, we don't want to be the authority in this. We want to look to God. Then there's unity. Then there is proclamation or preaching or prophecy. The word is actually preached. So then in chapter 9, October 31st, the people assembled again. They fasted, dressed in burlap, sprinkled dust on their heads. That is the traditional way of fasting. They separated themselves from foreigners. Listen to this. They confessed their sins and the sins of their ancestors. They remained standing for three hours in place. Mind you, they had a church service. They had a revival service while the book of the law of the Lord their God was read aloud for them. Then for three more hours, they confessed their sins and worshiped the Lord their God. They cried out to the Lord God with loud voices. The word convicts and they repent in response to the word. That is revival. A dead faith was revived because of the word of God. Psalm chapter 19 says the word of the law of the Lord is perfect for reviving the soul. It is sufficient. So can I just remind everybody, you cannot produce, manufacture, or machinate revival. You have to first submit yourself, humble yourself, and go to God's word. Then out of that, there's unity. If there's other people in the midst, there's unity to say, God's word is good. We're going to make sure that we obey it first, and then we're going to preach that same word and let the word do its work.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Yeah. And that's where when we were talking about earlier, like we can't produce this, we can't manufacture this. It's you could prepare for it. Yes. And I think we pray for it all the time. Absolutely. And going back to the details of the scripture, and I also want to read out of Jonah, I think this is a turning of the hearts. Like the revival happens in so many places around the world where people are repenting from their old ways. In this particular story, it's the people of Israel that have heard the stories, some seen what God had done for them. They've been exiled, obviously, you know, out of out of Israel, Jerusalem. And then now they're back. So these are people that are very aware of God's word, but because they were exiled, yeah, and remind me, were they there in Babylon?

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, yeah, they're in Babylon.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

And so now that they're they've been raised, a lot of these kids that have been in exile with their parents. Now they've been raised up with pagan tradition. Absolutely. And there's people like Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Nebednego that stood up, and obviously the king, uh, you know, they he allowed them to worship God and stuff, but they're still being influenced by a different culture. Yeah. And so now they're coming back to their roots, coming back to, you know, the word that God had established for his people. Yes. And there is a returning to their first love.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Absolutely. And to your point again, chapter eight. I love that there's a phrase that says, when they read, it says they became aware. Yeah. They recognized, hold on, we are out of alignment. And I love how you said that. There are whole generations of people who have grown up in captivity who have never probably heard the name Yahweh or heard these stories. Like, well, I don't know this God that you're speaking of. I know the gods of the Babylonians. I know the gods of the Mesopotamians. I know the I know the Assyrian gods, because Babylonian and Assyrian cultures, they mixed and they melded. So I know these gods. I know Rimon and Ashtareth and Baal, right? I know, you know, I know all of these other gods. But Yahweh, who is that? Who is Elohim? I don't know who that is. And they go back to the word. Back to the word. And then the people confess their sins and they realize, wait a minute, that's the God that we've sinned against. Oh, you're talking about the creator of heaven and earth, the one who made everything in existence. Oh, that God? The one who actually gave us the rules for living, the one that gave us good, the law's good. Remember, the law's good. The one who showed us how to live a fruitful, productive, that God. Oh, that's the God that you've been telling these stories about. Oh, okay. Oh my goodness. Wow, we're out of alignment. And the word did its work. The word. They stood for three hours, heard the word, and then for the next three hours, catch that. For three whole hours, people are confessing their sins. They're not doing wild, emphatic celebrations. They're not in their flesh. That's not emotionalism. There's real godly sorrow. There's grief over their sins. Can I say it again? They didn't produce this, but I think they prompted the word prompted revival.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

Yeah. Well, repentance, I think, is at the heart of it. Yes. And and I think we we tend to pray for revival to happen in our churches. I I would say at this moment, like we should be praying for revival to happen in our personal lives, in our private life, and in our homes. Yeah. Like think about it. Like a lot of you that are listening or watching, you have loved ones, if not in your own home, extended family that they don't know the Lord. And you've been praying, and we you serve at the church and you're on the dream team, you're volunteer at your church, and you're you're praying for your one more and all that stuff. But just as we're talking about this revival, just you know, it lead, lead with unity, obedience, yes, and the word of God. And so not just asking people to go to church alone is not gonna change and transform them. It can set them up, it can be part of the process. But, you know, I I believe if we're gonna declare this for our own homes, that we want revival in our home, yes, we need to do the do the groundwork.

SPEAKER_02 13:37

Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, it starts with us. Again, I I don't I don't remember the preacher who who said it. I don't know if it was Wesley or Edwards, but he basically he made the statement in praying for revival. He said what he did, he went to the center of his room and he drew a circle. He stood in the middle of that circle and he said, Lord, change every single person that's standing in this circle right now. Change the one that's standing in this circle. Like you said, Lord, start revival in me. Start starting in me first. And because it's so easy for us to look, you know, but I have what I call window theology, where we're looking at at others. We need to have mirror theology. You're looking at a mirror, it's Romans 12.3. Make an honest assessment of yourself. Hey, are you surrendered? It's Romans 12.1. Are you have you presented your body as a living sacrifice? It's Romans 12.2. Has you have you allowed the Lord to renew your mind where you don't think like the world thinks? And then Romans 12.3, are you making an honest assessment of yourself with the measure of faith given to everyone? You want to talk about revival. Then I now I have, it's not so much that I have the right to pray, but I have the that's the word, confidence to pray. When I know the Lord's been doing his work in me, that increases my confidence in praying that he would do that

Jonah And Repentance That Spreads

SPEAKER_02 14:40

same work in others, specifically those in my own household.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah, I I I want to visit this story in Jonah real quick, uh chapter three. But you you if you know the story of Jonah, the Lord tells him, hey, go and to Nineveh and preach this word and that they repent, that the people repent. Correct. He says, nah, and he goes the other way. Right, which is the capital of Babylon, by the way. Yep, yep. And then he goes the other way, ends up in in the sea, eventually gets thrown off a boat, ends up in the sea, and ends up in the belly of a big fish. That's right. Which in our Bible stories, it's a whale. It's a whale. It's a big whale. And uh, and then he's in his the well for three days. That's right. And then the fish finally spits him out after he repents. After he repents. After he repents. Come on. Took him three days. Three days, brother.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

You wouldn't we just pause. Come on, let's go. Let me set the scene. Let's go. God tells you, go to Nineveh. You nope, I'm not going, I'm going the other way. I'm going to Tarshish. God's like, I'm gonna get you. He causes a fish to swallow you. The fish, you in you now your home is the fish. You in the belly of the fish, stinky, wet, slimy. And it took the brother three days to finally say, I got, I'm gonna do it your way. Three days, that's a long time. That's a long time. 72 hours in a fish, fish guts. I mean, if the outside of a fish smells fishy, I can only imagine what the inside smell. Because now you smell it with the fish eating.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

And that joke, he ain't snacking on krill and plankton. That joke eating other fish.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Probably eating dudes.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

And you in the stomach. And that brother was sitting there for three days. Well, I don't know why I'm here, but I figured out. Man, it wouldn't have been three minutes for me. He's fasting. Oh, I man, you fast. You're done right. You fast. What you gonna eat? Pre-digested food? No. Negative ghostwriter. It wouldn't have taken me three minutes, brother. I'm serious. I would have, I would have been hanging. What's that dangling thing on the back of the throat? The uvula? That's what that fish would have swallowed me. I'd have been hangling him like a punching bag. No, Lord, I'm sorry. I'll go, I'll go. Hey, turn the ship around. 1032. Brother, in distress. Call the captain. I'm swinging from the dangling thing. That wouldn't have got me down his throat. I'd have hopped up.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

Oh man. I'm just saying. He's stubborn. He's stubborn, brother. He was stubborn.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Which I think there's two stories in here. There's the stubbornness of the servant of God. Yes. That how many, how many preachers, how many pastors, including ourselves, are stubborn and would rather be in the belly of a fish for three days than to obey what the Lord says.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

My God in it.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

And just so just in whatever context, however that fits for you, I think, I think we all do that. We all carry something and we're like, no God, no God. And we hold on to it, hold on to it. Right. And we might not be in the belly of a fish, but we're we're still not dead to ourselves. And so, you know, and there's a lot of things that people relate that to, you know, the three days in the belly of fish, the three days Jesus was and all other stuff. But he eventually comes out. He does. He comes out, and then we go to chapter 3, Jonah chapter 3, and then so the Bible says that in verse 3, this time Jonah obeyed the Lord's command and went to Nineveh. And then he goes on, and then verse 4 on the day Jonah entered the city, he shouted to the crowds and he says, 40 days from now, Nineveh will be destroyed. The people of Nineveh believed God's message, and from the greatest to the least, they declared a fast and put on burlap to show their sorrow. And then here's here's the turn. Obviously, people are already getting the message of verse 6. When the king of Nineveh heard what Jonah was saying, he stepped down from his throne and took off his royal robes, and he dressed himself in burlap and sat on heaps of ashes. Then the king and his nobles sent the decree throughout the city no one, not even the animals from your heads and the flocks, herds, and the flocks may eat or drink anything at all. So they're going full fast. Everyone and everything. Even the animals. Even the animals. Philo and scruffy. Yep. And then finally at the end, he even tells them they must turn from their evil ways and stop all of their violence. And he says, Who can tell? Perhaps even yet, God will change his mind and hold back his fierce anger from destroying us. Verse 10. There it is. When God saw that they had done what they had done and how they had put a stop to their evil ways, he changed his mind and did not carry out the destruction. There it is. And so revival happened in this sense. It's a different context because they were about to be destroyed.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Oh, absolutely. So I mean, Jonah is warning. He says 40 days from now. There ain't gonna be a stone on that. Wasn't a threat. That was like, hey, no, this is judgment. It's coming. It's like a tidal wave. It is coming. Right? So the threat is harmless. No, he's like, no, I'm telling you guys in a month and a half, this city is gonna be washed the sea.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

But here's here's what I want to, because again, this is for leaders, right? This is worship and leadership. This is he tells them, the Lord tells them 40 days from now, they'll be destroyed. Immediately the people start repenting. Immediately. And there's sorrow, and and even the king makes this decree, like, hey, we're gonna stop this immediately.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:45

God pretty much forgives them, has a change of heart. It took Jonah three days. Come on, brother. It took him three days in the belly of the fish. So that doesn't even add up all the other time before he even made it to Nimm.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

And travel and all that stuff. And so just think about think about that. There's people in our lives, there's there's cities, there's communities, there's our churches, our small groups, yeah, our dream teams that that God has a word for them. God has there's there's a purpose, a plan. There, there might be even things that are gonna impact and hurt them.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

But the the the real wrestle here begins with Jonah. Yeah. And so I think revival begins when, like you said earlier, when there's unity in the leadership and when there's a repented heart really from the top, a lot of times.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

100%.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

Like I think of my household and as being the husband, the the father figure. Like if I don't repent, yeah, if I don't turn to God, if I don't, if I don't put down my wicked ways and the things that are that are evil that my flesh wants and desires, if I don't put that down, I don't see a change in my house. That's right. I see my wife have to fight for it. I see my kids might desire it, but they'll have to struggle with it. Yeah. But because me as a head of the household, if I'm struggling with it, like it's gonna put a damper on what can actually happen in my house. Yes. But when you look at what happens when the head of the household just like fully surrenders and and it's transformed that is truly repented before the Lord. Yeah, there's a there's something that happens in a household. Come on now, that just brings an awakening and a revival into our children, our spouses, and it just brings so much life and joy and and peace and fruitfulness because now you're welcoming God into your life in the sense of through obedience and repentance. That's so good. And so and then after that, as you're able to do that on as an individual, again, revival happens first privately. Right. And then the Lord sends you into your assignment, and now there's nations, and now there's cities, and now there's multiple people that are impacted, and their lives will be transformed, even saved from death and sin, because now you're able to step into obedience and do what the Lord has called you. So it begins with hey, we all have a purpose, yes, we all have a calling. Yeah, are you willing to step into that and just just we I don't want to be in no Belly with no fish for three days. Like, right. Like, stop being stubborn.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because, like you said, let's go back to God's original command. Hey, go to Nineveh and give them the word. And like you said, I mean, I just think, you know, you know, disobedient, it can just delay. It can, you know, some and it with the delay happens because of distortion. Because our heart is just our heart posture

Ezekiel 18 God’s Desire To Forgive

SPEAKER_02 22:20

is wrong. You know, Pastor Elmer, when you were when you were sharing that, I've been slow reading through Ezekiel. It's just so funny we're talking about this this morning. Because guys, just to be clear, we literally just he were asking each other, the three of us, me, Elmer, and Jacob, we're on a group chat, and we're like, okay, hey, what you know, what do we want to talk about today? So like you just know the Lord's working in this because I've been slow reading through Ezekiel, and I'm in chapter 18 this morning. And I uh, you know, the first anchor is it does start with it starts with the self and a posture of humility and inward repentance. The second anchor is that there has to be unity. There has to be unity among people who are who are in in leadership and who are given oversight of others that they're leading, right? Thirdly, I think another anchor that we don't talk about often enough is that the Lord desires to forgive. The Lord wants to revive. It is not God's nature to start first with judgment or vengeance. It's not. He has to be provoked to that. We forget that. God does not have to be provoked to love or mercy or kindness, but he does have to be provoked to wrath. And I thank God that he has to be provoked to it, which means he doesn't just sit around waiting to show wrath. So in Ezekiel 18, so I want I want you all to read it. I'm just gonna cover the wave tops of it, but I want you all to read it because this is the prophet Ezekiel who is prophesying to the people, and Ezekiel's life is wild and crazy. The stuff that the Lord has him do in prophesying judgment is just absolutely wild. You have to read it for yourself. But in chapter 18, we see God's righteous nature, we see God's righteousness and his mercy and his love all wrapped up together, starting in verse 20. So he tells this rhetorical story about a father who is sinful and wicked, and or a father who's righteous and does and does right and lives right, treats people right, who has a son who is wicked. And then he says, Well, is the son, is the father gonna be punished for the son's sin? He's like, No, the son's gonna pay for his own sins. Then he says, That son has a son who is righteous, who looks at his dad and is like, nope, I'm not gonna live that way. I'm gonna honor God. And then he says, Well, okay, so then will that son pay for his father's wickedness? And he's like, No, the wicked, he's like, he's gonna live because he chose to follow me. And he's he's he's telling all of these stories. And then he talks about another son who starts out and he's starts out wicked, and he's like, Yeah, he's in danger. But then he turns and he repents. And he says, What would the Lord do? The Lord will forgive him. Because the Lord says, I will bless the righteous, the righteous shall live. Verse 20 the person who sins is the one who will die. The child will not be punished for the parents' sins, and the parent will not be punished for the child's sin. Righteous people will be rewarded for their own righteous behavior, and wicked people will be punished for their own wickedness. Verse 21. But if wicked people turn away, if they repent, if can I just write and I thank you, Holy Spirit? Some of y'all are living at the precipice of an if. You are not living in a way that is honoring God. And I'm speaking to leaders. Some of you right now, you're not living in a way that's honoring God. You are on the precipice of that if. He says, if wicked people turn away from their sins, if they repent and begin to obey my decrees, this is the Lord speaking, and do what is just and right, they will surely live. Not just live, but they will for sure live and not die. All their past sins, here's the gospel. All their past sins will be forgotten. He doesn't just say forgiven, they'll be forgotten, and they will live because of the righteous things they have done. Here it is, verse 23. Please, I want you to capture the heart of your father. He says, Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? See, there's just this theology, especially in the West, where we just think God's gonna get them and he can't wait to send them to hell, and man, he delights in the but no, he doesn't.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

He wants to punish people.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

He's like he's he's sitting on his cloud and he's got this stuff. We got this thunderbolt theology, this Zeus theology, he's got a thunderbolt and he's waiting to strike you down, and he can't wait for you to screw up and wait for you to mess up. But that's not what he's saying here. He says, Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? Do you think he gives me enjoyment to see people die in their sin? Man. But he says, Of course not. I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live. God wants you to turn. He wants all of us to turn. If we're walking in sin, if we're walking in wickedness in any fashion, any degree, in any measure, God says, Hey, hey, you're on the precipice of an if. I don't want to see you die in your sin. I want you to live. Then he says, However, if righteous people turn from their righteous behavior and start doing sinful things and act like other sinners, hello, should they be allowed to live? Meaning, do you think I should just let them get away with it? Like, no, of course not. Because I'm a just God, I'm righteous. He's like, you wouldn't let a criminal get get away. Like you, I mean you think about this in the natural. When somebody comes at your crime, there's something in us, no, that's wrong. They need to pay for that crime. He said, No, of course not. All their righteous acts will be forgotten. So the wicked, their sins are forgotten, the righteous, their deeds are forgotten, and they will die from their sins. And then the verse 25, yet you say the Lord isn't doing what is right. Listen to me, oh people of Israel. Am I not the one doing right, or is it you? And then he talks about if if wicked people turn from their wickedness, obey the law, do what is just and right, they will save their lives. They will live because they thought, listen to this. This is so good. Verse 28, Ezekiel 18, verse 28. They will live, the wicked, listen to this, Homer. They will live because they thought it over. They thought it over. They just they sat and they said, I'm living in a way that's dishonoring God. And he said that the wicked will die for their sins. Let me think about it. It's the way I'm living right now. Am I am I sure that I'm gonna live? The way that I'm acting right now, the the things that I'm a part of, am I am I am I sure that when I face the Lord that I'm gonna spend eternity with him? They thought it over, and then listen, and decided to turn from their sins. There it is. Repentance. They thought it over and they decided. They thought it over and then they decided. And he says again, verse 32. I'm sorry, verse 31. He says, put all your rebellion behind you and find yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O people of Israel? This is God telling. He's you can like almost hear him pleading with his own people. Why do you have to die? Why should you die? And then look, verse 32, Ezekiel 18, 32. Listen to what he says. He says, I don't want you to die, says the sovereign Lord. Turn back and live. Man, I I I must have read this chapter probably close to a dozen times in my life. And this morning, it just hit different, man. Just seeing, God, you want to, you want to save people, you want to foment revival. God wants to revive, He wants the wicked to turn. This is not, God is not sitting here in heaven with some tally, with some calculator, with some, with some ticker board, and you know, that says, you know, saved and damned, and cheering in heaven, you know, every time, oh, we got, yep, thank God the wicked. No. The Bible says in Luke 15, Jesus tells three stories that there is rejoicing in heaven when one soul comes to Christ. There's no rejoicing in heaven when somebody ends up in hell. It grieves him because the Bible says hell was created for the devil and his angels. I'm just, guys, I'm just telling you, the Lord wants you to turn from your sin. He does not want you to die in your sin. He doesn't want people to die in their sin. He wants people to repent. He wants it. That's why he sends his prophets. That's why he sends his word. That's why he sent his son and he sent his spirit. So to convict us is say, hey man, that ain't the way. That ain't God's best. That path right there, that doesn't lead to the life that you think it will. That actually leads to death and destruction.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Man, and and I I keep coming back to the story. Sorry, excuse me. Come on now. I keep coming back to the story of Jonah because, again, I think a lot of people are they find themselves in very similar situations. You know the Lord, and yet you choose to walk away. There's a there's a word that God's put in you, there's a purpose, there's a there's ministry that God's put in you, but yet you're like, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna live my own my own life, I'm gonna do my own thing. But the the picture of him being in in the belly of this fish, I think verse chapter two, verse five does give some imagery on on what was happening and what what was happening in the belly of the fish.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

I think there's like the waters close in on him, and seaweed wrapped around, he sank down, roots of the mounts, imprisoned in the earth, gate shut around him forever.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

So he's giving this imagery of like this is what it felt like and seemed like. And I think even in that, like he could have died, yeah, but he didn't. And so, like, even with all the things that were surrounding him, he still had everything he needed to live. Come on. And I think in this very moment, like every day is not an accident, every day is not it's there's not, it's not a coincidence that I woke up this morning. Yeah, like God has a plan and a purpose for everyone. The fact that we're talking about this today, there's a plan and a purpose for those of you listening. Yeah, I think for us too, it's a great reminder of to check our our own hearts and our lives. But there was purpose in his pain. We talk about this a lot. Yeah, there was I really see a picture of a mercy in his misery. Like God sustained him and and even protected him from his own consequences. Yes. And then eventually it led him to a place where he repented and was able to go and fulfill what he was called to do. Right. Um, but just I I really feel as we're talking about revival, revival begins in private. Yeah. And so easily we, you know, when people hear stories of revival, you want the big picture, you want the events, you want what happened, who led it, who led worship, what what celebrity Christian artists was there, right? What flags were waved. You know, we want all the details on how did they put this together so that we could replicate it. No, it happens when when you surrender your heart, when you turn your heart away from the wicked ways that we you once lived in. I've heard the Lord tell me multiple times that the things that he wants to do in my life, that it begins with me. And then I'm like, okay, I I I've wrestled with this at times. I'm all right, so I gotta put in more work, I gotta, I gotta educate myself better, I gotta surround myself with with certain people. And then the Holy Spirit would would always remind me and kind of re-ralign that thinking because it's not that it begins with me with what I'm capable of. No, it begins with me surrendering. Yes, that's true. I think I think a lot of us hear that, like, okay, for me to be successful, it begins with me. I gotta put in the hard work, no one else is going to. Yeah, right. You hear all these things with people on Instagram that are like, do this and you'll get seven figures in two days. Right. Do this and you'll lose all your belly fat in five days. Yeah, it didn't work for me. Uh you know, and and so there's all these quick self-help tips, but it all begins with me. Yeah, it all begins with you. If you want to move the ball forward, it begins with you. In this case, if you want to see revival, if you want to see your family thriving, if you want to see your community thriving, it begins with me. And it's not how much work I can put in, it's am I willing to surrender?

SPEAKER_02 33:52

That's so good. And repent. Man, I I love how you you you really just beautifully tied that together. Again, starting with us and then making the connection

Leadership Integrity And Revival At Home

SPEAKER_02 34:00

to those that we're connected to, right? Starting with us, family, home, community, church, work, school, right? It's easy for us to pray for revival. And most like, man, I I would pray, I I would actually want you to do repentance. How about that?

SPEAKER_03 34:13

And uh to be honest, I I I would dare to say there's probably pastors that pray and church leaders that probably pray for more revival to happen in their church than they do in their home. Sure. Because it's easier to like, like just being transparent, as a pastor, it's easier to want certain things for your church than you would for your home. Yes. If you're not, if you've not learned to balance and really kind of align yourself properly with home life and ministry. Yes. And so it's easier to want to be successful at church, but then you go back home and it's miserable. Your marriage is fallen apart, your children don't like you. Yeah, you know, and then so then when children grow up, they don't want nothing to do with ministry. So that that's the typical picture of ministry around the world.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Where where that's that's the patterns because a lot of people when they're called into ministry, they focus on on the thing, the place, and and and then they tie their identity to that place. And so then their identity becomes the church. So if the church isn't successful, they're not successful. Yes. If the church isn't thriving, then they're not thriving, right? Right. And so then they think that if the church is in full, then there's no revival. But it has nothing to do with you in the sense of like it's not your church number one. Come on. Your identity should never be wrapped around whatever the place that God's called you. Yes. Like, I don't feel like I'm a Clark's villain because I live in Clarksville. No, like I'm a child of God. Come on. You know, and then and I rip the Dodgers everywhere I go. And so, but you know, and but that's easy that's either the trap, I think, of the enemy for church leaders is to identify themselves with their community and they're like, This is the church, this is who I am. Yeah. What if God calls you to another place and he asks you, hey, I need you to turn this church over to so and so? Yeah. Are you would you be willing to do that? That's so good. And be obedient because that's that's you have to be just as obedient as God as if God said, Hey, I need you to preach this message.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

Yeah. No, that's so good. It's the same thing. Thinking about our map, our very last episode. Y'all check it out. Talking about the map. That's you're talking about the assignment. When you're just enmeshed and enrolled in that assignment, and you forget, wait a minute, you're first a child of God, and the assignment is what you do, not what you are, then it, yeah, then you will struggle. There will be a wrestle when the Lord says, Hey, I'm sunsetting that assignment. You fulfilled it. I'm calling you to something new and something else.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

And so when you want to build the assignment and not just fulfill it, like you're gonna miss that on revival. You're gonna miss out on those moments. Brother. Because it starts in private. Yeah. And so if if you can't, if it when going back to the map, if if if you don't understand the mission and you're not satisfied with the mission alone, yeah, and the the assignment has to bring satisfaction to you, then you're gonna struggle. Yeah. Because as Christians, we should find fulfillment in the mission alone that that we are called to make disciples. Amen. At in whatever way or fashion, whatever it looks like. There's people right now in other countries that are discipling hundreds of people underground, yeah, in in secret, come on, passing pages of the Bible, you know, things, knowing that if someone finds out they're gonna die, they're gonna lose their life. And they do it because they love the Lord and they're excited about people's lives being changed and seeing people not go to hell.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

And then for us, it's about comfort in the West that, you know, okay, what can I get out of it? Can I make a career out of it? And so all these things, you know, we we want to monetize, we want to, we want to make it look fabulous with instant Instagram accounts and all this stuff. And but you know, again, if the mission doesn't satisfy you on its own, the assignment is only going to get in the way of the mission. Yeah. And so I don't know how else to put that, but as for those of you that might be starting ministry at an early age, you need to find satisfaction with the mission alone because uh if if you don't find fulfillment in that, right, like that's what Jesus has called us to do.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Again, he tells three stories in Luke 15. That that they're missional stories. There's rejoicing in heaven when one soul comes to faith in Christ. It's all lost things being found. So Jesus is obsessed. The Lord is obsessed about finding the missing, about bringing the missing in. He obsesses over it. And so we need to have that same obsession where we are constantly thinking, God, where's the one more? Who's the one more that you're you're bringing me into today? God, I'm praying for my one more. God, send me into the life of another one more. Like you said, if you're not satisfied with the mission, the assignment, and then your purpose, because again, what'll happen is the assignment and the purpose, they'll they'll become conflated. Yeah, right? My purpose will be, it will become again enmeshed and tangled up, entangled in my assignment. When that assignment ends, because all assignments end, then my personality goes with it. And now I'm schizophrenic. Who am I? What am I? Who is and and like I said during our last episode, the world culture is all too happy to give you your assignment and your identity. Oh, they'll they'll gladly tell you who you are. This is who you are. You feel that way? Well, that must be must be who you are. The assignment, hey, here's the stuff you need to be doing. Here's where you can advocate, here's where you can lobby, here's where you can promote. Because now everything, because my my A and my P is all messed up because I didn't get the M right. My Lord, man, you're preaching there, Pastor Helmy. I hear your voice changing, Doc.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Going through puberty.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

His voice

Worship As The Outcome Of Repentance

SPEAKER_02 39:20

dropped. So, you know, we talk about worship and leadership, right? I really love how we're we're staying in this Jonah text because out of his repentance, you know, he uh Jonah says in verse, the bottom of verse six, he says, But you, oh Lord my God, you snatched me from the jaws of death. So now he's worshiping. Listen when he says, as my life was slipping away, I remembered the Lord. There's a repentance, and my earnest prayer went out to you in your holy temple. It's interesting, the belly of the fish becomes a sanctuary of worship. Become sacred ground right? And then he says, Those who worship false gods, they turn their backs on all God's mercies. But he says, But I will offer sacrifices to you with songs of praise. There's worship, there's worship. I will fulfill all my vows, for my salvation comes from the Lord. So now, like you said, he's humbled, he repents, and the result of the repentance, which you can now see revival, is worship. Now repentance leads to worship. Verse 10. Then the Lord ordered the fish to spin him out. And so going back to Nehemiah, the word is brought forth, the people they repent, they confess their sins, and then they they're singing songs, they're extolling God's praise, his mercies and his benefits and his attributes. So, so now so now this is, I think what I think revival is, ultimately, it is renewed worship of the Lord God. I think I think I think the the outflow of it, the out the upshot, that's the word I'm looking for. The upshot of revival is that people worship the Lord again. Because if we stop with people feeling sorry for themselves, that's behavior modification. That's just guilt.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

And it's not based on circumstances. No. So going back to Jonah, like God didn't tell him, all right, begin to worship me, offer me sacrifices, then I'll tell the fish to let you go.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

No, he he probably thought he was gonna die there.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

I guarantee we did.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

He didn't have an altar in the fish, in the belly of the fish. He didn't have actual animal that traditionally he would have had to sacrifice. Right. He didn't have any of that. Yeah, maybe a little fish would come down, he'd you know, sacrifice it. Sure. But he didn't have any of that, but he knew this was his his posture of worship. Yes. And he just came into this place where if I live or die. Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:29

Like I'm glad you said that because it's it the order isn't the fish spit him out, and then he worshiped. Oh, anybody but of course you're gonna be thankful to God, man, because you wouldn't die just to buy a fish. But like you said, he's in captivity again, pulling for the Nehemiah. They're still technically exiled, to be clear. Remember, they haven't moved back, they were just given permission by the king to rebuild the wall. The wall. But the king didn't say, Oh, y'all can move back. It's one repatriation happening, right? So they're still technically exiled, they're still without their home country, and yet they're worshiping God. And the Lord commands a blessing. There's a blessing right there. So can I can like I'm so glad you said that, my brother? Hey, listen, the blessing isn't that your circumstances change, the blessing is that you change in the midst of your circumstances, your thoughts. Hey, that's Ezekiel. They thought about it and then they turned. Brother, that's that's repentance, which leads to revival.

SPEAKER_03 42:22

Which now let's shift it here a little bit, and we won't we won't spend too much time on this. But real quick, so then there's a change of heart. Yep. There's repentance. And so now, say privately that begins to leak, and now your family is on fire for Jesus, your your spouse, your children, you go to church and you're in your small group, and everyone around you sees it. You're leading people back to Christ to moments of repentance, and and you're just seeing lives changed. Again, is is that still revival, or does it have to be a big event where it's happening to masses of people?

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Yeah. So to your point, let me make my earlier statement. I don't I don't I don't think revival is an event. I think it's a rhythm. I think it's rhythms of revival. I think it's just constantly happening. I think, again, you know when I think when you think about the kingdom, there's this phrase that's used constantly. Paul uses the phrase abounding. So when I think of abounding, I think of a multiplicative effect that keeps happening. So for my math nurse, think like exponential, not linear. It's exponential. So like it gets bigger, but it gets bigger as it gets bigger. Does that make sense? And so I yeah, so I think revival is less an event, and I think it's a state of being. I think it's I think it's eternal life. I think eternal life is reviving life. Everything is new, but it's also being made new. It's being, it's be it's renewed and being re being being renewed. It's renewing. Things come into life. Yes, things are constantly coming into life. And so what is that? It's it's what precept upon precept, line upon line, from glory to glory. And so it's like, man, today is better than it was yesterday. I can't wait for tomorrow. Man, because the Lord's always doing something new. That's why I say it's not static, it's not, it's not. Event-based, it's rhythm-based. That's the kingdom.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

It's not a single experience. Right. It's not just a moment. It's it's a lifestyle. It's a shift.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Absolutely. Yeah. I remember years ago, man, there was a conference that we were a part of at our home church in Alabama. And the speaker came and man, he just grave, he gave an incredible word. He talked about like the remnant and God's using a remnant. It was, man, I mean, it was amazing. I mean, it was, I mean, a powerful word. And for me, just uh specifically like in that season, you know, like I'm I'm not on staff, like we're new to the church. And I'm just running like, God, what do you, like, God, what do you have for me? Like, like what is ahead for for my life? Like, what do you what do you want to do with me? Because I'm like, I'm not trained, I'm I'm raw, but like I know I love you, I love people. What does this look like? And then when he just talked about that remnant, like how God works in the remnant, and I was just, I mean, floored by that. And that conference, I mean, I was wrecked, like in the best way possible. But after about three days that high tapered off. And to be honest with you, man, I kind of went back to life as is. And but now there was a greater frustration because I thought, man, was that it? Was that was that all the Lord wanted to do? You know, is God gonna do it again? And so that's when my theology had to shift, and I had to understand that, you know, eternal life is about daily connection with Christ and also recognizing, too, that God is doing new things in all areas of your life. So it's not just like not just in you, but like, hey, think about how you work, think about your marriage, think of you know, my kids that were babies at that point in time, thinking, man, Willie, what are some things you can do now that that, or what are some ways you can pray? What are some things that God is doing already that that are renewed and being renewed? You know, you know what I mean? Like even thinking like the way that I parent now, vastly different from the way that my parents did. They yeah, they did their best, but the culture and the context is different. And so, oh God, you've renewed that. Does that make sense? Our marriage is like, God, you've renewed that. And so I'm saying all this because, again, it's not event-based. That was a revival. I mean, again, man, there were people coming, they had an old-fashioned altar call it that night, and people were coming to the altar, confessing their sins like out loud, like out loud. So the Lord certainly moved that night. But looking back on it, I realized, God, that is something that you want happening all the time. You want people, you know, coming to the altar of the cross, laying their lives down, dying to themselves, confessing, acknowledging their sin, turning from their wicked ways. You want them being filled with the spirit. You want them telling others about Jesus. Like that is what I mean when I say that. It's it's a rhythm. It is a it is just a daily rhythm where you just wake up and say, okay, Lord, in what way do you want to do revival today? Yeah. Matter of fact, Lord, I'm I'm expecting that today's gonna be better than it was yesterday because again, every line builds upon the line. We go from glory to glory. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

I I think I want to end with this. The I think it's exciting. We want revival to happen in our life, in our churches, in our families. The, the, again, we know that the audience that's listening, those of you that are you're probably part of a church, church leadership, a dream team or volunteer at your church. And if you're not, you know, I'm glad you're listening to this podcast. Amen. And we hope that this is helping you. And just if you have questions, that this is answering some of those, or you know, you can always reach out to us and we'd love to have that conversation more in depth. But I think as much as we're excited to to push you towards a place of repentance so you that you live a life of renewal and this life that we we're called to live in Christ. You know, I I think the danger for those of us that are in church leadership, for those of us that call ourselves Christians, is when this life becomes so familiar. Yes. And that relationship starts to fade. Yeah. Like you said earlier, and then we we start depending on experiences and these moments in corporate worship, and the songs have to be right, the lighting has to be right, the the volume, the the emotions,

First Love Warning And Daily Repentance

SPEAKER_03 47:50

or else we feel like we didn't encounter the presence of God. But that's that's daily communion with the Lord. It doesn't have to happen in mass settings. Right. And that's the dangerous things. I've had this scripture open for the last probably 30 minutes on my phone. Well, no, it's Revelation chapter two, and this is a letter to the church of Ephesus, yeah, uh, at the beginning of chapter two, and then uh I'll just go from verse two. And this is the Lord saying, I know your works, your toil, and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and and are not and found them to be false. I know you are enduring patiently and bearing up for my name's sake, and you have not grown weary. So, pretty much, if you do a study on the church of Ephesus, they had a great doctrine, they had everything there, but they what they were lacking was their devotion. Correct. And so they had the fun foundation, they they had everything in place, like a great organization and great church. But then he says this in verse 4, but I have this against you that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen, repent and do the works you did at first. If you not, if if not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place unless you repent. Unless you repent. And so this is uh another warning, you know, and I would not take that lightly for us that are active in ministry. For those of you that are following the Lord, just you know repent. I think that's a daily thing. Absolutely. Like every day we got to turn back to the Lord, just you know, die to our flesh and and and pick up our cross daily. Amen. There's a reason that's in scripture.

SPEAKER_02 49:33

Come on, I'm there. Thank you for saying that. So revival is is a rhythm, and so is repentance. Repentance is a posture. So let me let me just give y'all some some some quick theology, okay? Real quick. So when we think about repentance, we tend to think about repentance as an action. Like, and what I mean by like a singular kind of like point in time. So you repent unto salvation. That is true. The problem is that it's an incomplete definition of repentance. Repentance is more like a posture. So we are by nature kingmakers. You know, we did an episode talking about idols and I don't, so we are by nature kingmakers. John Calvin said that the the heart is an idol-making factor, it's all it produces is an idol. So we are looking to worship something or someone. And so what the devil wants us to do ultimately is to worship self. So repentance is a posture that you take where daily you proclaim to yourself and to the Lord on the throne of my heart is Jesus and not self. So that's daily, which is why you die to yourself because the flesh wants to rise up and get a vote and say, No, brother, you're in charge. So daily I have to tell the flesh to shut up. Daily I have to do that. And so the reason why revival can be a constant in the life of the believer is because repentance is going to be a constant in the life of the believer. I maintain the posture of repentance, and guess what? I get to walk in the fruit of revival.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

Come on. There you go.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Come on.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

I think that's that's the cherry on top of it. Praise the Lord. A posture of repentance. I get to live a life of revival. That's in the fruit of the reverse. In the fruit of revival. I get to taste it every day because I'm walking in a posture of repentance. Yeah. Come on. And we hope that's been encouraging to you. Amen. This has been great for me just to hear it. I've enjoyed it. It's a good reminder, man. And so I I know a lot of times we read the story of Jonah and it's like, oh, Jonah and the whale.

SPEAKER_00 51:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

And we have Sunday school stories and all these books and songs, and but it's deep. Yes. And it's it's one of those things that if you slow read it, and again, just like in everything, you you allow the Holy Spirit to reveal himself to you. And what is it that I need in out of this? Like it's not again, what's in the Bible is there for a reason. Yeah, it's not an accident, it's not just to fill gaps and stuff. No, it's it's intentional for us as believers to grow and mature in our walk with the Lord. So hope you've been encouraged, Pastor Willie.

Final Takeaway And Sendoff

SPEAKER_03 52:00

It's been fun. Pastor Yomer. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 52:02

It's always a joy, brother.

SPEAKER_03 52:02

Let's go. Same, we're same, same. And so until next time, peace out.