Worship With Eternity in View: What It Changes About How You Lead

What does worship look like when eternity is your actual frame of reference?

In episode 17 of Season 5 of The Worship and Leadership Podcast, Elmer Cañas Jr. and Willie C. Simpson Jr. go deep into Revelation 4 and 5, the Thessalonian letters, and the vision of the throne room to answer one question: how does eternal worship shape the way we lead on Sundays?

They unpack:

• Throne-centered versus experience-centered worship
• Lamb-centered worship and why redemption fuels everything
• The difference between joy and happiness in a worship context
• Why reverence is almost countercultural right now
• Sunday as rehearsal for eternity

This is not abstract theology. It is leadership perspective that changes how you plan, how you lead, and how you show up every week.

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Transcript

Welcome And Season Five Update

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I don't know why this don't work. Hey, what's going on everybody? And work welcome to the Warship and Leadership Podcast. My name is Elmer Gunnas Jr. And like always, my main man, Willie C. Simpson Jr.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

is everybody. I'm excited to be here today with all of you. Man, we got a barn burner of an episode today. It's the penultimo. Or the penultimate episode, which means the next to the last episode of season five.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

Season five, we're almost at 12 episodes. That's crazy. Season five. Wow. Let's go. Season five alone, like, hey, man, we this has been a journey, man. And thank you to those of you that have been along with us on this ride and uh just from season one to now. And so we're we're getting ready to head into all the summer things here at Life Point with camp coming up, uh Camp Live Different. And then and then we got vacation and different things happening as as we're entering the summer months. And so we're we're gonna take a little break. Yeah. You know, we we still get to pastor and lead our teams and our church, but uh you know, we're gonna take a moment and and pray for to see what the Lord has for season six and with the podcast. And yeah, but uh you know, before we we say goodbye, we'll do that next week. Yeah, that's right. I I I'm excited about today's

Worship With Eternity In Mind

SPEAKER_02 1:33

episode. Honestly, we're gonna be talking about worship in eternity. Yeah, and and one of the things that excites me about this is again, just and I say this a lot, uh, how we we map out our topics and our conversation pieces months in advance, like very even before a season begins. Yeah. And then just the way the Lord aligns things. Right now we're in the book of we're in the book of Thessalonians, specifically First Thessalonians. Correct. And it's been a such a timely word for our church. And I think in the season of life that we're all in, just what's happening around the world, yeah, a lot of different things, but it's been a great reminder for us to live life ready. Yes, not not it's not and you see you see you hear a lot of similar, you know, uh texts that are about living ready, being living holy, but this isn't based on a list of rules or things that that distinguish you from being a sinner and righteous. No, this is live ready because the Lord is coming.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

That's right. Yeah, that that's really what it is. Um, you're right. But that's what I love about first and second Thessalonians. I mean, it's really less about like the do's and the and the don'ts, and it's more about Christ as this soon coming king. Like the phrase the day of the Lord is used over a dozen times between both books. There's this theme of of judgment and of avenging evil, and you know, the of the church being, you know, brought up and coalesced and and brought together with Jesus to reign and rule with him like forever. Like there's all this sort of language. And so, and you know, these books are they're they're short letters. I mean, first thessalonians only it's only five chapters, second thessalonians, it's only three. And but they are so rich, and there are strong, what I call eschatological underpinnings, meaning future things. So a lot of what's mentioned in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, Jesus talks about in Matthew 24, and then obviously we see in the book of Revelation, and it's all readiness. So, hey, it and so the encouragement is hey church, listen, because our our soon coming king is coming, we want to live ready. So, so then out of that readiness, you know, we're loving one another. Out of that readiness, we we we're we're making sure that we're industrious, we're minding our own business. Out of that readiness, we're sharing the gospel. Out of that readiness, we're honoring marriage. We're staying faithful to our spouses, but we're also holding uh sexual integrity in high regard. We're gonna be honest in our dealings because Jesus is coming back. We don't grieve like the world grieves because Jesus is coming back. He's coming back not just, you know, to reclaim the dominion, but he's coming back to reclaim his church, his bride. So that's why we live ready.

SPEAKER_02 4:11

Yeah, and one of the illustrations Pastor Mike uh shared a few weeks ago, uh, which is OG Francis Chan illustration from back in

The Rope That Puts Life In Perspective

SPEAKER_02 4:19

the day. Yeah. And we don't have a rope in here, but I'm gonna use my water bottle. And just, you know, the example of he used this rope, and at the tip of the rope was this little red piece, but just imagine this bottle cap is your lifetime. Yeah, you know, your life, and this is the rest of it. Obviously, it's a short bottle, but this is uh represents eternity. Yeah, and how our lives are just such a small part of what eternity looks like. And and then not to live not and and then we we live this life in preparation for eternity. Right. And I got to preach that message out at Bayshore in our New York campus, and it it wasn't so much about live this life so you can make it to heaven, right? No, it was about live this life in preparation for what's gonna come in heaven, yeah. And and for those that aren't believers, hey, it's like there is an eternity, and are you gonna live, you know, which which part of eternity are you gonna live with the Lord or away from the Lord? Right, yeah. And so it was just a great reminder. And again, as we're stepping into this this conversation today about worship in eternity, it's it's we live today in preparation for what we're gonna encounter in the presence of the Lord forever. Uh there's this, it's it's almost become a joke where worship leaders kind of it's it's a it's a dig at people. Yeah. People that go to church and and they don't like the music portion of church, like they just sit there and and drink coffee while it's done with, or they sit in lobbies and and then they come in, they're like, Well, if you don't like to worship now, what are you gonna do when you get to heaven? Right because we're gonna be worshiping 24-7, right? Right. Like there's all these references to to that, and there is truth to it. Sure. That there's a lot of things that if we don't learn to do now, yeah, if we have issues with them now, like it's it's I can't imagine it's gonna be hard if you make it to heaven. Sure. But we're gonna be surprised.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

Yeah, I think I think that's the right word there. I think we'll be surprised that wow, okay, so this is what life in eternity is. This is what life with with Jesus is is is like. And to your point, I mean, there's so much imagery, Pastor Omer, you know, in in looking in the book of Revelation that really kind of juxtaposes with the book of Genesis.

What Heaven Is Not

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Like, I mean, we see work happening. We see that there's labor, we see that there's community, we see there's there's a city, there, there's civilization, there's society. So there are like the the same underpinnings that like we experience and see now, like they're in the book of Revelation. And so we have to get rid of that cartoon theology on heaven. Listen, let me tell you right now, you will not become a little cherub sitting on a cloud, strumming a harp. That that is not what you're gonna be doing.

SPEAKER_02 6:52

You're not gonna have your seat in the choir.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

You're not gonna have your seat in the in the heavenly quiver. Okay. Yeah, that's that's that that's not what's gonna be happening. Will it be worship happening? Sure. I'm sure there's gonna be singing. Absolutely. But like Jesus has angels singing around him 24-7. Yeah. So he don't need us. But what will be happening, I think, is a return to God's original design where it's almost eating it. I mean, we're building, we're cultivating, we're having dominion, we're being love, we're we're being industrious. It's a labor of love. Now it's not a labor of hard. You know, you know, we're we're we're we're connecting and reconnecting. All of these things are are going to be happening because we're talking about a kingdom, and kingdoms are meant to expand and propagate. They're not meant to just stay static. So that's what's going to be happening. It's a new heaven and a new earth. People forget that. That that the city comes down on the earth. So there's your theology. We ain't gonna be floating up in the sky. When we're right here on this earth, it's gonna be remade and we're gonna be helping to remake it. So, because that is going to be happening for eternity, we want to prepare ourselves for that now with the right perspective and the mindset of that. And so that is why first and second Thessalonians are so important. Because we want to live ready now. So, you know, that Jesus talks about being busy. You want to be found busy working when the master returned. I don't want to be found sinning or being a busy body, being nosy or causing division or destruction. I want to be found living on mission, sharing the gospel, loving on people, relieving burdens, forgiving those who have offended me, calling out injustice, fighting back against evil. I want to be found doing those things. I don't want to be found causing the stuff. I want to be putting a stop to it, helping put a stop to it.

SPEAKER_02 8:26

And that's what you mean by busy. 100%. It's it's not like like Mary Martha where like you're in the kitchen the whole time, and then you know, but Jesus prefers Mary at his feet. Right. Like it's it's about like engaging in the gift, the calling that God has given you, yes, operating in that anointing and putting it to use because he's coming. Yeah, oh yeah, there is an urgency for the loss, just because you know it it grieves the father. Yeah, and that's one of the things, you know, it's not in this conversation, but one of the things that that God loves the father is is his his children.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Absolutely. And yeah, yeah. Well, and and that motif is all over, and we could spend an hour just talking through that about like family and bride and bridegroom, father, children, sister, brother. But it's all over scripture. All it's not a foreign concept. And so we will be like family in the in the kingdom. So let's get along now. Yeah. So so thinking through eternity, so like how do we worship then as people of God with eternity of

Worshiping Jesus As King

SPEAKER_01 9:20

mind? You have to start with Jesus, and you have to start with remembering who he is. Ultimately, yes, he is savior, he is redeemer, he is messiah, but he is king. And we the the the motif of kingdom is prevalent from the book of Genesis all the way through to the book of Revelation. You have thrones, you have kingdoms, you have dominion, you have conquest, you have war. All of these things are prevalent throughout all of scripture. And so, you know, looking, I mean, so we have Moses. Moses sees glory on Mount Sinai, which is like a throne. There's thunder and lightning. We have Isaiah, Isaiah in chapter six sees a throne. We have Ezekiel in chapter one, he sees a throne. Daniel in chapter seven sees the ancient of days sitting on a throne. The priest Micaiah sees the heavenly counsel in the book of Zechariah. John sees a throne in Revelation chapter four. And so we have to start when we talk about worship, we're worshiping a king. When we talk about worship, when we talk about eternity, we're worshiping a king. And we have to keep that in mind. Why do I say that? Well, because worship's gonna be eternal. We're gonna be doing that in heaven. Like it's not just gonna be like, man, we sing the songs here, Yahweh, you're awesome. You're we're could you I mean, I would I don't even understand why we think we're not gonna do it more when we see Jesus exactly as he is. And we're gonna be in glorified bodies that can now handle that glory. Because remember, he tells Moses, you can't see me and live. You'll vaporize like tissue paper in the sun. But now we're gonna have eat, we're gonna have resurrection bodies. You know, I'm gonna have my six-pack in my muscles, and I'm I'm gonna be, you know, my double bicep pose. Lord, I lift your name on high. You know? I'm gonna have long wavy hair. Oh, yes. You'll be like Fabio. You're gonna be leading worship. Yahweh, Yahweh, no more hats. No more hats in Jesus' name. Hallelujah. And so Jesus, he's he's at the center of all of this. And so, you know, when we think the worship being eternal, I think we we gotta look through and look to the book of Revelation.

John’s Vision And Hope In Chaos

SPEAKER_01 11:35

And so I was telling Elmer, y'all, this morning, like, you know, just nerding out thinking through like Revelation chapter 4, verse 2, pulling it up. So just taking you, you know, just setting the the stage here. So we have the we have the uh the apostle John, he writes the Gospel of John, first second and third John, and then he writes the book of Revelation. He's exiled, he's the only apostle who's not killed directly through martyrdom. They attempted to kill him, didn't work. So they're like, well, let's exile him to this island. It's called Patmos. And it's basically it's like a worker camp. That's what it is. It's it's like a slave colony, it's like a prison. So he's working, busting rocks, doing whatever he's doing all day long. And in the midst of that exile, he writes the book of Revelation. The Lord visits him on an island and gives him a vision, not just of things to come, but like who he is. He's reminding him, hey, let me tell you who I am. That's why chapter one, the first thing he sees is a revelation of Jesus Christ, the the amen, the faithful and true, the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. And then the first thing Jesus does is he rebukes the church. Seven, seven churches of a prophet's called Asia Minor. It's modern-day Turkey, Ephesus. And he just he rebukes all of these seven cities for different things. You've become lukewarm. You've lost your first love, you're entertaining false teachers. Hello, Jezebel. You've you've you've you've compromised in in some way. Your love has just grown. You've allowed pride to enter, whatever it is. And like for nearly every church, he has a strong rebuke, and then he has a call to repentance, and then an encouragement. But it's our warning. And so Revelation chapters 2 and 3 are and John is witness to all of this. He's like, man, this is what he's gonna tell the church. This is what he's telling the church. Remember, he's on an island, he's exiled. He's probably one of few, if not the only, Christians on this island. And so imagine, we don't know how long he's been on this island when the Lord visits him, but it's probably for an extended period of time. And so now, could you imagine the first message you get? You see Jesus, and the first message out of his mouth is a rebuke to the church. You gave your life to build.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

So you gotta imagine. John is probably thinking, like, oh my goodness, what is going on with the church? Does anybody love Jesus? Is anybody living on mission? Am I the only one that even cares? Like it is chaos and disarray. Like that you he's gotta probably be thinking like that's happening in a church, Jezebel, really? And then chapter four. Let me read it. NLT. Then as I looked, I saw a door standing open in heaven, and the same voice I heard before spoke to me like a trumpet blast. The voice said, Come up here and I will show you what must happen after this. This is after this would be now. This is red letters. So this is this is the word of Jesus where it says, Come up here, and I will show you what's happening what must happen after this. This is Jesus now speaking to John. Look at verse 2, Revelation 4, 2. And instantly I was in the spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it. This is Paul. John has just heard Jesus rebuke the church, the church he loves and is willing to die for. He gives his life to build. And in response to John's revelation of what's happening in the church, the first thing God does is show him the throne. And and so now we we're able to pause and think through okay, there is chaos happening, there's strife, there's tribulation, there's spiritual darkness, wickedness, spiritual attack, persecution, hardship. And the solution for John is not to see a vision of a better church, it's to see the vision of the throne and to be reminded my hope is not found in the church getting better. My hope is finding the fact that God is bigger. Come on.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

Come on.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

That's where the hope is. Like that, and it he he looks up. And then looking, it's like a snowball effect. The one sitting on the throne was brilliant as gemstones like Jasper and Carnelian and the glow of an emerald circled his throne like a rainbow. That's Genesis language right there. Remember when God says, I'm gonna set my bow in heaven? He doesn't call it a rainbow. He says, I'm gonna set my bow. Bows are it it's encirclement, it's like a halo. He's like, I'm the king. You can trust what I'm saying, because the king is addressing you. Twenty-four thrones surrounded him. Twenty-four elders sat on them, clothed in white and had gold crowns on their head. That's counsel, that's advisory board, right? From the throne came flashes of lightning and rums of thunder. In front of the throne was seven torches, gives the sevenfold spirits of God. In front of the throne was a shiny sea of glass sparkling like crystal. And then he in the center, four living beings. And guys, that's all Old Testament theology. That's all Old Testament imagery. And so John is, again, remember, like any Jewish kid who's bar mitzvah, he knows all of this stuff. He knows Daniel and David and Ezekiel and Isaiah and Moses. And he he has all oh the four beings. That was Ezekiel. The one that was on fire, looking like that was Daniel. The the the thrones, that was Micaiah had that. Job saw the heavenly council, like all of these things are happening and it's coalescing. And John's probably having like this Holy Spirit freak out, like, what is happening right now? You're the one that they all prophesied about. And it coalesces for John. And what what's the reminder? The encouragement is this church, hey, take your eyes off of the chaos and put your eyes back on the king. In the mid-this is how we worship through eternity. Listen, is that we worship now. That is the same king that John saw. Church, listen, that same king is on the throne right now. Worship is happening. There's still lightning flashing forward. There are elders. There are there's this at this council that is worshiping and bowing to him and conceding to him. He is still in control. And notice what it said in chapter in verse 2. It said he was seated on the throne. Like that's a position not just of power, but a position of peace. He's not rattled, he's not all stirred up, he's not freaking out, he's not urgent about anything. He's seated, he's sitting down after giving this super strong rebuke to the church at large. And John sees Yahweh seated on the throne. So, church, can I remind you, no matter what's happening right now, there's chaos happening in whatever part of the world that you're living in, persecution, hardship, strife, turmoil, civil, political, ethnic unrest, absolutely. Can I encourage you that Jesus is still seated on the throne in a position of power and authority? Come on, let's go.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

Hey, fire it up. Oh that's that's exciting. And and if you think about just Old Testament, the Old Testament itself, like even going back to the tabernacle and all the studies that we've done, the t the tabernacle itself was a snapshot into heaven. Yes. And it was a like almost like a replica on earth. Yes. And so there's a lot of things that that in the Old Testament, all the all the prophets that you were talking about, minor prophets, and that they saw that they were a part of that was they it was glimpses that they had of of of heaven. Correct. And now now in the New Testament, like you said, John could have all this knowledge already, but he's he's also seeing. Yes. Because at the beginning of Revelations is Jesus telling him, Hey, write down everything you see. Correct. And so he's he doesn't only have knowledge about it, but he's actually seeing it. Yes. And and man, it's it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

Right, yeah. So like like you said, it's it's so for John again. I mean, John is he's a theologian. We don't know how sharp of a theologian he was, but he spent three and a half years with Jesus. Like he knows the word. And and for him to have this insight, because it's and it's it's like this crazy, like this cosmic coalesciorcing. It's old testament imagery. Like, let me just say this like so the book of Revelation, over two-thirds of the book of Revelation draws from the Old Testament. That's why you can't understand what you're reading in Revelation without knowing what's happening in the Old Testament. Yeah. Thrones and temple and tabernacle and beasts and conquests and angels. None of that sense, none of that stuff will make sense to you if you don't have a strong framework for, you know, you only get that from reading Old Testament. Yeah, you start making up stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And they right, you start making up stuff. Crazy, weird Looney Tune theology. And you know, so then so we what we do is we tend to look at the book of Revelation like a codex as and trying to figure out and decipher what's going to happen in the future. And yes, there is some future casting. Obviously, it talks about what will happen, what's going to happen, what shall happen. 100%, there is some future casting, but that's not the point of revelation. The point of revelation is that the God who has been progressively revealed in scripture is the same God who is on the throne and will vanquish evil and make all things new. That is the point of revelation. It's it's like the it's it's like the the first 65 books of the Bible, it was all breadcrumbs. Now you got the whole cake. And what's crazy is that even the cake, you only see it like blurred. John doesn't have the perfect, he doesn't see Jesus in the flesh. Like Jesus don't touch him, you know? Like he it's it's all a vision. And he's like, just write what you see, record what you hear. But the whole point, guys, is that the book of Revelation is it's this consummation of what's happened previously through the major minor prophets, through the men and the women, the mothers, the fathers, the sons, the kings, the priests, the poets, the paupers, the beggars, fishermen, tent makers, tax collectors, like all of these folks, these 40 authors, got all of this revelation, these breadcrumbs, and not even just the biblical authors, just the biblical figures. There were people who didn't write the Bible who are in it, and and and what they saw and the interaction that they had with the Lord, and it's just this consummation now. It's like this coalescing, all of that theology is being distilled. He is on the throne. That same God that everybody saw, Paul talks about we see in part, we probably know in part, prophesy in part. And John is like, hey, I'm I'm I'm I'm all those puzzle pieces, I'm able to put them together. And why? Because guys, the the Bible is there, there's continuity there. Yeah, and that's the we can trust the word of God because the way that God is described there to John is the exact way that Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel, Jeremiah, Micaiah, Moses. It's the way that it's the way that everybody saw him this figure high and lifted up. Seated on a throne, attended to by divine counsel.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Yeah, which means there's this consistency across generations of Bible writers, authors that they're saying the same thing. Yeah. That are is being revealed in different times. And at the end of the book of the whole Bible, Jesus says, verse 20 of the last chapter, chapter 22, he who testifies to these things says, surely I am coming soon. So this is Jesus saying, Hey, just a reminder, I'm coming back.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Hey, I'm coming back. Come on. I'm coming back. I'm coming back. Consistent thing. First Thessalonians. He's coming back. Second Thessalonians. Matthew 24. I'm coming back. So, guys, this is why we worship for eternity. Because Jesus is coming back. And we will spend eternity somewhere. And Jesus wants us to spend it with him. He right? He wants us to spend it with him. And so that's why we worship.

Songs That Shape Eternal Worship

SPEAKER_01 22:48

This is why we plan our worship sets. And we have to be just so uh intentional about the songs that we sing, and we have to be so intentional about like not just how we're leading people, but where we're leading them. We have to be so intentional about that because eternity hangs in the balance.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

I was gonna say that that songs select song selection in in your churches, in our church matters to prepare our hearts for this. Yeah, because we we are also pastoring and educating people from the platform as worship leaders, as pastors in those moments, because if if our worship is not lamp-centric, lamb, not like lamp, but lamb-centric. Come on, talking about Jesus-centric, right? Then if we're singing there, and again, there's a lot of beautiful songs that that reference our sorrow and our grief, and there's psalms and lamentations, and there's we see a lot of it in scripture. So we replicate a lot of that and we write these songs uh to connect with our human grief and our human emotion and all that stuff. And and and there's there's healing in it, and there's pointing back to Jesus in it. But when we get to heaven, there's gonna be none of that. Yeah, and so it's not gonna be like, Lord, I am so anxious, because and thank you for your presence. Right. Like there's none of that. Like we're not gonna be apologizing.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I'm sorry, yeah. For the thing, uh, or fight my battle for me.

SPEAKER_02 24:06

There is no battle. Like you're walking, you're in full victory at that point. Come on. And so if we're not if we're not preparing our hearts for that, so uh someone had mentioned this to me, I'll say decades ago, decades ago, yeah, about 20 years ago. They're like there's songs that are of of what you're actually going through, right? And and and like the Lord is my shepherd, yeah. You know, even though I go through the valley of the shadow death, and you know, it's it's your journey, the process of of you being sanctified and all these things. But then there's also that that place of where you get to worship and praise in that position of victory, yeah. Where you come to terms with yourself that no matter what I'm facing, no matter what's going on, like the conditions of my life don't determine what I'm gonna say right now. Come on. It's it's I'm gonna declare worship and praise of towards God because of who he is, and that's a whole nother song. Yeah, and that's the worship that we're gonna experience in heaven. Yeah, at least I believe based on what scripture says, it it's all him-centric, it's all vertical, it's all holy, worthy, you know, there's no one like him. Like it's it's it's not the the me focused type worship. And so so that's one of the ways that we prepare ourselves. So even even if you're not on the platform and you're not a worship leader, like be intentional of the songs that you put in your playlist that that they are focused on Jesus, that they are focused on not just your your attention on feeling better about yourself and that that he's comforting you, but that he is he is mighty, like he is great. There's this song called Yahweh, yes, you know, by Life Point Creative. That's pretty good. Yes, it is. Um, but songs that will just elevate his position over your situation. And I think I think that's important that that we incorporate that into our daily rhythms, you know, just as much as we pray and read scripture, but just be encouraged to do that.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

Amen. That's so good, man. I you know, that one of your notes that you you you put on was you know to think of Sunday like a rehearsal. And that that's really what it is, Alma. You're right. I mean, it's it's preparing us for e eternity worshiping the king. And again, you know, you know, it's I I think scripture is deliberately scant with details about you know, like what day-to-day life is going to be like in the kingdom, you know, in in in the eternal kingdom. And I think that's for a number of reasons. I I I think number one, like you said, because if if we're given too many details, I think just by human nature about the future, you know, we'll we'll we'll fail to focus on the present and and to be ready. Number two, I think because we have enough information about kingdom living now to know what it's gonna be like then.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

I don't think there's gonna be a whole lot difference in terms of, like you said, who we're gonna be worshiping. Let me just in case you need your theology realign, we will be worshiping Jesus in eternity. Jesus. Jesus. Isa. Whatever language you need, we're gonna be worshiping Jesus. And like you said, it's gonna be lamb-centric, it's gonna be throne-centric. So, like, that's our theology now.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

So that will not change. The other thing that won't change is that we will be busy doing kingdom work. I mean, the Bible talks about how these gates, these 12 gates are there, and it says that people go in and out. And it's funny because it says kings and paupers. So, like, the whole leadership church is gonna be like flattened. You're all worshippers of the king. I don't care what your title was here prior to that. Like, you're you know, you're you you're submissive to the king now. So whatever you tell you you do, you do it. So, like, we're gonna be doing work. Like, there's gonna be things happening. It's a city, like, I don't know any thriving city that don't have that doesn't have people that are working in it. That's why it thrives, because people are doing things. Now, the work would be eating it. It would be like pre-fall, where the you know, it will be industrious, but it won't be hard. It won't be soul sucking, right? There won't be, you know, the the land and things won't work against us. It'll work with us like it did pre-fall. But we're gonna be productive because kingdoms that they they propagate, and that's the whole point. It's a new earth. Also, we're gonna be building community. Like we're, I mean, there's gonna be people there in the key. We're not let me just say this too. We tend to think just because we'll be like Jesus, that we're gonna be Jesus and we're not. So we're not gonna have perfect knowledge. We may know things that we don't know now, but I'm not gonna know everything. So now, guess what? I get to spend eternity getting to build community with brothers and sisters, you know, that I never met here on this earth. Yeah, saints that die, OT saints. I'm like, Moses, what up, bruh? Like, you're a lot shorter than I realized, brother. You know what I'm saying? Like, we we so we're gonna be spending eternity too, building community with one another.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

You know, my five-year-old hopes that George Washington made it to heaven. Yo, it's the craziest thing. Levi's like, dad, like, is George Washington in heaven? I want to talk to him. Yo, like we'll find out. Brother, we'll you'll find out when you get there. Get your heart ready, man, so you can make it.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Come on, you make sure you're ready. Yeah, you make sure you're ready. Oh man. That is hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 29:02

Come on now, man. Oh, Lord. No, I love that. I love that. That's a um I I think even the posture, there, there, there is the the context that we're gonna be worshiping Jesus, yeah, you know, throne-centric, all

Joy Rooted In Promise Not Mood

SPEAKER_02 29:15

this stuff. But I think there's an attitude, and and Paul talks about it a lot, you know, uh, and and it's one of our values that we choose joy, and there's this this thing about and you hear this a lot, like joy is not the same as happiness. Nope, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

You know, happiness is what it's it's circumstantial. Yeah, the word happiness, the root word of happiness is hap, which literally means circumstance or happening. So, so so then what happens is something positive happens to me, and I'm happy about it. Yeah, I got a promotion, I got unexpected blessings. Somebody blessed me with a meal, whatever it was. So I'm happy because of my happenstance. And joy is not rooted in happenstance, joy is actually rooted in truth, specifically, joy is rooted in a person. And so the joy for the Christian comes from the fact that it's not this just that Jesus is on the throne, that Jesus is God, and that Jesus is Jesus is in is in control, but that Jesus has made promises that he intends to keep for us. When he says, if if uh he says, In my father's house, there are many mansions. And he says, if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And where I am going, I am coming back to you. And when he says, and if I come back to you, I will bring you to where I am. Why would he say something like that if he intended to deceive us? So then we say, Okay, I'm not only joyful because of Jesus and who he is, but I'm joyful and what he has said and promised to me. So that joy now anchors me when happenstance is negative, when circumstances shift away from me, I'm like, well, my joy actually causes me to remain grateful, to remain enthusiastic, to remain encouraging, faithful and fruitful, ready because of the joy that is set before me.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

And that's the difference. And so so this is what I want to refer to. The difference between worship that is based on one day I'm gonna feel better, one day it's it's it's it's an emotional thing. Yeah. Like even though I don't feel it right now. But the whole point of that being in scripture is for us to rise above our emotions. Yes, because it's something we choose. I'm not gonna let my circumstance, I'm not gonna let these feelings guide and define me and lead me. It's I'm gonna rise above it because I have Jesus. I have He's my peace, He's my joy, He's my strength, yes, He's my refuge. If we declare all those things, that means that He He's above your circumstances, right? He's above the hurt and the pain, even as real as it is, even in pain, even in hurt, even in grief, right? You can have peace. Even in all those things, you can have Jesus. Right. And so again, going back to songs and what you just consume, be mindful of lyrics that are drawing you into an emotional state versus back to the word and scripture that, hey, this is the promise that that he's with me. Right. And if he's with me, then why am I worried?

SPEAKER_01 32:19

Well, why am I worried? Like my so then Philippians 4. I'm so glad you you're you're teasing out a lot of what Paul talks because if anybody would have a reason to not have joy, be Paul. Shipwreck, whipped, beaten, threatened, snake bit, snake bit. Yep. Just mind his best, just putting some s'mores and some sausages in the fire. And the snake's like, man, I heard I heard about you, Paul. Because they're a turkey. Because they were turkey sausages. The snake was like, Man, are you serious, bro? Really? You ain't got no pork, you ain't got no beef on your mouth. You just sackums. So then Philippians four, right before the famous verse in six and seven, when he talks about, you know, don't worry about anything, pray about everything. Verse four, Philippians four, four, always be full of joy in the Lord. Again, I say it, rejoice. Let everyone see that you are considerate in all you do. Just like you said, remember the Lord is coming soon. That's why we have joy. Yeah. Because we know that he's coming back soon, but he's here

When Worship Becomes Breakthrough Hype

SPEAKER_01 33:11

with us now. It's like, remember the Lord. And so, guys, like when when we talk about uh so growing up, man, like the faith traditions that I grew up in, Elmer, you know, predominantly black faith traditions that I grew up in, you know, a lot of the worship, you know, we go out and we would devolve into, I say devolve now, because I mean it would be preaching, and you know, somebody get up and they would start he comes shocking, speaking in tongues, and then we go into what we call a praise break. And it's just that exactly what it is. The musicians, we tune up and clapping, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

That was fun though.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Listen, it was fun to be clear. I look back on it and I was like, it was just it was nonsense. But man, we go for two, three hours, man. I mean, just going in. And our praise was always centered on what God was going to do. Like your breakthrough is on the way. God is getting ready to visit your house in 72 hours. Your entire world is about to change. Like it was always predicated on what God was going to do.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Circumstantial.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

It was all circumstantial, right? Checks are coming in the mail. I declare and decree, you're about to get a phone call. That'll change your life.

SPEAKER_02 34:14

I mean, and it required you to have faith.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

That was a thing. It was like, so now it was we would say, stir up your faith, activate your faith. We were always talking about like the anointing is here. Reach up and grab it. And then as I got older, what would happen, man? Just being honest with you, is like I would become defeated and I would become disillusioned because that breakthrough that I was promised never came. Those checks never never showed up. That phone call never happened. And so now I wrestle within myself. Did I not have enough faith? Or man, is God really good? Is God really able to do this? Is or was that is that for everybody else but me? Am I excluded from the breakthrough or the favor, the blessing that the Lord wants? And joy is not circumstantial because joy is eternal, which means it's timeless.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:01

Which means every second of every day, I can have joy because Jesus is with me. And so as I grew up and just grew out of that kind of juvenile theology, man, I began to understand, okay, I can have joy right now. The church, we can have joy right now in the midst of the already and not yet. Because Jesus is here with us. That that's what guys, that's why I want y'all to connect like eternity with temporality. The kingdom that is to come is not gonna be different than the kingdom that's happening now. It's not. Why? There is there's life, there is connection, there's relationship, there's rulership, there's like that's happening right now, and it's gonna be happening then. And the point that John is making is that the breadcrumbs of revelation that the forefathers got in the old testament, okay, are leading up to the same cake. It ain't a different type of substance. It's not like breadcrumbs of meat and then a cake, it's all the same thing. It's just pieces to the puzzle, they're disparate. And John is like, I'm seeing more of that coalesce and come together. And so now, what's crazy is that we're still living in that same church age, if you want to call it. Like things aren't vastly different from John up to us. They're not. The context is different, but the warfare is the same. It's still light and darkness, good and evil. It's still kingdom of heaven and kingdom of darkness, right? But so now we get to take an example from John. Say, guys, listen, in the midst of chaos, we worship for eternity because the throne is present here. It's a throne that will never have an end. That's why I think God revealed the throne first to all of the fathers: Ezekiel, Daniel, David, Solomon, Moses, Abraham. Like he revealed these throne motifs so that when John shows up and the New Testament Christians show up, we realize, okay, wait a minute. That throne is timeless. Right? That throne, there will be, guys, every king that has ever ruled and reigned will die or is dead. Every king, every king of Israel is dead. You can go see their bones right now. Matter of fact, the day of Pentecost, you know why they call it the upper room? You know why? Because in the lower room, guess what was there? The bones of David. That's why when Peter is preaching, he's teasing out Psalm 110. He's not doing that on accident. He's like, guys, David is dead. And guess what? You know what he could do? The guy's right here behind me. He died. His body did see corruption. I'm telling you, I'm I'm talking about a king whose throne will never end. He's that he's he died, he'll never die again. Come on. Man, I mean fire it up today.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Man, I had a thought, just two thoughts. So that there's that that concept of joy. Yeah. Or not concept, it's the reality of it.

Recovering Awe And Sacred Reverence

SPEAKER_02 37:43

Yes. Yes. Of who Jesus is for us. But then there's also one of the things John Bevere came earlier in the year, and he was also, I think he was with us last year. Correct. And when he was here last year, he he talked about his book, The Awe of God. And I think there's something about reverence of the presence of the Lord. Yeah. It's not such a casual thing. It's exciting. It's fun. And just thinking back to growing up in church where you're like, the presence of God is here. And then people start spinning around, waving flags, running around the church. Come on. All that stuff. But but I think we've lost this reverence and this awe of of who he is. Yeah. And I think that that is something that I fight for, something I want to continue to cultivate in our church at all of our campuses. That there's just something that we have to learn that when we enter God's presence, it's not this casual experience. Like it's it's it's sacred. It's it's sacred ground. It's a holy moment. Uh and I think it begins in our homes. Yeah. When we set when we learn to set time aside to to have our devotionals, to to spend time with our families in prayer and worship. And then, you know, holding the Sabbath, learning to keep things that are sacred, sacred.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

And and not for the sake of like the golden calf type thing, like well, we're gonna do things as rituals and traditions. No. But but in the sense of making sure that God, there's this awe, this fear of the Lord in our lives, right? That I think a lot of us have lost.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Oh, yeah, I agree with you, man. Well, number one, I I think because contextually, we don't live in a monarchy. So the term kingdom for us, it's not that it's nebulous, it's just it's hard for us to wrap our hands around because we live in a democratic republic. Like, like we live in a democracy, and so we we vote, we vote leadership in and out. Like we actually get to do that.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

It's our choice.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

It is our choice. And in a kingdom, you don't get a vote. Like the son of a king becomes the king. That's the way it works, right? And and and so the people don't get they don't get the vote against it. As a matter of fact, if they rise up, that's squashed down. And so so that's number one. We don't we just don't have the context for it. And and then and so then when we talk about reverence and all in that regard, it's hard for us to wrap our minds around the fact that it truly is not about me. Because I, again, love the U.S., think it's the greatest free nation in the world. But we talk about the inalienable rights that every citizen has, and what are they? Life, liberty, and their pursuit of happiness. That's all man focused, bro.

SPEAKER_02 40:18

Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 40:18

That's not divine. That's all man focused, the pursuit of my happiness. I have the right to my life, my liberty, and a pursuit of my happiness. Again, I think there's something redemptive in that, but again, it's the pursuit of my happiness. That's not kingdom language. In a kingdom, you don't pursue your happiness. You pursue what's good for the king.

SPEAKER_02 40:36

You're a servant first.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

You're a servant for the king first. Hey, I'm making sure that that you know his seat is clean, that he got his bellies full. Seriously, that he's safe and secure. Then I'll see about me. So that's number one. And and Jesus is like, you y'all, y'all are here to serve me. Remember when he talks about when the master, he he Jesus gives this motif. He says, when the master, uh the the the the servants come in from the field, they've been working all day in the vineyard, and they come in and they sit down or and and the master comes in and he goes to eat. The master doesn't invite the servants. He says, Guys, I know you were out there in the field, serve me here in the kitchen, serve me in the house, then you can eat.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Right? Then he makes this statement. When the king, at the end of your life, when the king com commends you for your faithfulness, your response is to be, we are unworthy servants. We just did what was asked of us. You don't talk like that in a democracy? You get you get you get the medal of the congressional medal of honor, you get honored and affirmed and celebrated.

SPEAKER_02 41:33

I was gonna talk about the monarchy thing. That was the second thing I wanted to bring up, but because the context is so different. Right. And and but I like like when you think of scripture and it talks about the servant, like in our today, we would consider that a slave. Right. And there is translations where it's the slave and and and it gets confusing for people because then they start thinking of they think of antebellum slavery and chattel slavery, but that's it's indentured, but it's indentured servitude, it's it's bond serving, which means it's entered into number one, voluntarily.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

That's number one, and it's also entered into redemptively. Like I'm not treating you as subhuman and I'm not treating you as property, I'm actually almost kind of treating you like a member of the family. And you're willingly engaging in this. This isn't man stealing, which scripture expressly forbids. Go back and read Leviticus. This is this is indentured servitude, it's bond servanthood. So why is that important? Because, guys, nobody is dragged, kicking, and screaming into the faith. Jesus doesn't save you against your will. And so the pe the so the servants of Christ, all of us, me, you, Jacob, we're here in the studio. We're servants of Christ willingly. We willingly became bondservants of Christ. You're right, you're married. And the the the the translation, it it's it loses its its uh veracity and it's and it and its potency because it's it is slave, but that's the closest word to it. But it's still somebody who is indentured to someone else. That's the whole point. And and so to your but again, like democracies don't allow for that. As a matter of fact, capitalism literally says, hey, make your own way. Like we have a gig economy. Hey man, we we have we have an economy that is exclusively, exclusively tailored for you to make it big, to make a name for yourself. And now here we have a kingdom. Here we have a an ism. We have a king who says, actually, the way for you to become great is to become a servant. The way for you to become first is to put yourself last. The way for you to become rich is actually to give it all away. The way for you to become known is to make is to make yourself unknown. Like just focus on actually helping others to grow, making much of Jesus, but also actually the way you make yourself important is to esteem others as important, more important than you. Man, that just flies in the face of our sensibilities because we grew up in a democracy. So we're inundated with that messaging. Even even if we don't, we're not we're just not aware. I'm taking a a course in seminary now that talks about the power of rhetoric. And how it's everywhere. And the goal of rhetoric is to do two things is to reshape your thinking. Like to convince you that this is right and good. And then to get you to act on it. So that's number one. And then so we're in a mark, we're in a monarchy. But then number two, nothing is just sacred anymore, man. Like nothing is holy. We don't reverence anything. We don't reverence marriage. We don't reverence children, specifically those that are in utero. We don't reverence and honor those that are in authority. My goodness, man. I mean, people that are just trying to do their jobs and trying to just be managers and leaders, law enforcement, politics, whatever it is. And you have people actively, not only actively resisting that, they're posting about it and they're encouraging others to do the same. So nothing is sacred. Marriage is not sacred anymore. Personhood is not sacred and holy anymore. So and these are things that are imagined of God. These are distillations of God. Our identity, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

And so, and so, and so if listen, if the creations of God are not reverenced and honored, the God from which those things come from is certainly not being reverenced and honored. And so that's why I think we struggle with it, and that's where we have to have eternity of mind. It it teaches us, hey, there's a king to be honored and revered, and that king is coming back. And everyone will have to face him. I mean, Revelation talks about the great white throne judgment, and it's Jesus specifically mentioned who is on the throne. Everybody's gonna come face to face with him. And will you hear well done or depart? I mean, that is that red tip of the of the rope. That's God, you only have that much left

Thessalonians And The Resurrection Hope

SPEAKER_01 45:38

to do it.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

But that's what I love about the the church of Thessalonica, that they're in the most pagan, you know, part of the world. Yeah, just in they're in Greece, and there's all this different idol worship, God worship, so many different gods. And yet this church is on fire. Yep, they're on fire. They're on fire and they're spreading the gospel like like crazy. Yeah. And and so then Paul just skips all the do's and don'ts and goes through like, hey, he's coming. Yep. Live urgent to bring others in because he's coming.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, he's yeah, he just says, Hey guys, tell you what. Listen, concerning all that, I don't need to write you about that. But I don't I do want to make sure that you're un that you're not uninformed about this.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

That Jesus is coming back. So, so just in case you guys are haven't been informed, because he doesn't know everybody that's a part of the church of where they're coming from. And like you said, there's 25 temples to pagan gods, including Caesar and Thessalonica alone. So it's like, I don't let me make sure that you're getting your information right. The dead in Christ, they're going to rise. So there will be a resurrection because some of you don't, the Greeks didn't believe they're like, that's so stupid. Resurrection? No, because they hated the body. They thought it was inherently evil. Like, no, we don't want to resurrect this. So he's like, there's there's a resurrection that's gonna happen because Jesus is resurrected. And so the dead who are in Christ are gonna raise first. And then he says, those of you, those of us, he he says, inclusive, like those of us who remain alive, we will be caught up and we will be transformed. So this body ain't going away, it's gonna be transformed, and we're gonna meet with Lord, and then he says, we will be with him forever. There's eternity. And then he says, guys, can you comfort with each other with those words? Yeah, that's readiness. Hey, hey man, listen, I understand that they upset you. I understand that they offended you. Forgive. Why? Jesus coming back, man. Hey, we're gonna be with the Lord. This will be a distant memory, bro. Can I encourage you to remember? We don't have to grieve like the world grieves. I know, yes, there's heartache for sure. Man, your world ain't falling apart, bro.

SPEAKER_02 47:26

So he moves, he moves from a place of uh change addressing behaviors like he does in Corinthian. Right. He goes from behavior modification type language to like, hey, just here's something to encourage you.

SPEAKER_01 47:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:40

And this should be the main, like your goal.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Hey, encourage each other with these words. Yeah. What words? What I just told you about the resurrection. What I told you about eternity, about about the about uh Jesus coming back. Hey, encourage each other with that. And notice what he says, encourage. He doesn't say warn, and he doesn't say frighten. He says encourage each other. Hey man, Jesus is coming back. Hey, I can't wait to see him. He says, Paul just wrote this letter. He said we're gonna be with Jesus forever, bro. Yeah, man. Our dead relatives, the one who were the ones who were just martyred yesterday. The ones who were just martyred yesterday, Paul said we're gonna be with them forever with Jesus, bro. Damn. So you know what? Okay, I I got peace. I'm I'm still sad. There's still tears from my eyes, but I got joy inside because of what Paul just told me. Correct theology always does that. So he says, encourage each other with those words about a resurrection and then eternity with Christ. That's why we live ready because of a resurrection that's happening, and because of eternity with Christ. I can't make it no simpler than that, man.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

No, it can't be simple.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

Come on now.

Readiness Over Behavior Modification

SPEAKER_02 48:42

And I I love that. And the reason I brought that up is I I obviously all of scripture is beneficial for us. It will always edify us. But a lot of a lot of times, again, we're talking to leaders, right? A lot of times leaders are so focused on a lot of the things that they read, and like a lot of people love first and second Corinthians. Sure. And then and then or or even like Timothy and Timothy, or even the back half of Ephesians, I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 49:10

All these behavioral behavioral things, sure.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

And like it's it's easier for me to go ahead and put on the armor of God, you know, and that becomes my goal as a Christian. I think that helps you, but but the the driving, you know, what the driving force inside of us is the encouragement of like, hey, be ready. Yeah, Jesus is coming.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

And and I think again, just listen to the people he's talking to. This church, a young church on fire for God, that's doing amazing things and spreading the gospel. Yeah, he's not second guessing where they're at. He's he's just reminding them and he's discipling them from a distance to to live ready. Live ready. And and and it's almost like when you go from having a like a kid, teenager, a young adult, adult, our oldest is stepping into young adulthood, and we've been having the conversation about discipline and how was it for him growing up, and and he'll say all the crazy things, yeah. But but now he's like, you know, dad, like I I'm I'm grateful that I was disciplined as a kid. Yeah, like it actually helped me, and I'm I'm thankful for it. Come on, and then he says other things, right? But I I think mature Christians, mature Christians, again, speaking to leaders, the focus shouldn't be on how do we how do we modify behaviors because there's things that we should already be doing.

SPEAKER_01 50:31

That's it.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

And so if we're on repeat on on certain scriptures, again, it's edifying. Read it, remind yourself of these things. Yeah, but if that's where you're living and you're not moving on to like a Thessalonians, where like, hey, be ready, he's coming. Yeah, a lot of people think that revelations and all that, it's like irrelevant because it's talking about the future, the return of Christ. I don't want to talk about the return of Christ, I want to talk about me right now, yeah. But it's not about me right now, it's about he's coming. It's it is about the return of Christ. It is about the return of Christ. Our life is to prepare for the return of Christ.

SPEAKER_01 51:04

100%, which is why Jesus spent so much time talking about readiness. Yes, I mean, he talks about the bridegroom, he talks about the master on the on the trip coming back, he talks about the talents, he talks about the prodigal son, he talks about all these returns. He talks about forgiveness and the um for the parable of the unforgiving servant. All of that is about readiness. It's about it's about this master, this manager, this king coming and settling accounts. He could have easily told the thief on the cross, I forgive you.

SPEAKER_02 51:30

Yep. But he didn't say that. Oh, he didn't. What did he say? Today you'll be with me in paradise. So it's it's always about the place where we will end up with with Jesus. Correct. And so again, language matters. Yep. And so the the point is not forgiveness, the point is is not just living a holy life alone. Right. We we want to live forgiven. We want to live a holy life because we are preparing ourselves to live with him forever.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That's it right there. That's the encouragement. Is that he and it's also the warning is that he is coming back. And so you're right. Where are you at? I mean, those of you that are listening, I'm not assuming that everybody's listening today is saved.

SPEAKER_02 52:05

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

But the fact of the matter is that Jesus is coming back and he's coming back as a king. Listen, he came as a savior. He ain't coming back as a as a savior or a messiah. He's coming back as a king. And so what what the kings do? Kings rule and they reign. And and so that that's our encouragement.

The Subway Map Picture Of Readiness

SPEAKER_01 52:21

You know, I was thinking about this, Pastor Elmer. Over the over the Memorial Day weekend, you know, my family and I, we got a chance to to be uh in in New York, go visit the city. And uh so we rode the uh the subway for the first time. And I remember we're we were heading to go see the 9-11 memorial, and you know, in you know, talking, we were talking with the kids, you know, we mapped out, you know, ChatGPT really helped us out, like map out the stops we need to go to and all of this. And so, you know, we we get on the subway, and we're going from Long Island all the way to into the city. And as we're we're on the we're on the trains, I'm I'm able to see this huge multicolored map. It's got all the lines, an A line, a one line, to two, and all this stuff. So you can see where they're going. And not only that, but you can see the stops. And so I was able to, based on the stop that we were going, we're based on where we were currently and where we were heading, I was able to see how many stops we had left. And so I'm able to tell the family, hey guys, we got seven stops left. We got six stops left. And so as we got closer, what it's crazy you're saying this, because the Lord just reminded me of this. You know, it's me, Carolyn, and and and Destiny and Trey. And I remember when I said, hey guys, we got two stops left. That's all I had to say. And I saw everybody gathering their belongings, getting ready to get off the train. I didn't have to say, gather your belongings. Trey, get your backpack, Destiny. Make sure you put your phone up. I didn't have to say that, babe. Make sure you're per no, I just say, hey guys, we got we got two stops left. Hey guys, one stop. Hey, our stops coming up. That's all I said. And they're they're getting ready. And that's what Paul is doing with the church. He's like, hey guys, Jesus coming back. He, I'm not gonna give you the list of do's and don'ts because you know what readiness looks like. It's like us, it's like soldiers. No, I love watching those war movies when they're they're in transport, they're they're they're they're in a hilo and they're they're getting ready to get uh going to the drop zone. And you can see you know, 25 meters, 13 meters, six meters, four meters. Like they don't have to be told get ready to jump. Yeah, and when they've seen 25 meters, okay, let me get my stuff on and get they're responsible for that's why we don't do behavior modification. No, let's stay there. That's why we don't do behavior modification. I'm so glad you said that because you're responsible for your own readiness. Yeah, you're responsible for it. Paul is like, yeah, by this time, I don't need to write you. Because he even says you don't need anybody to teach you. You've been taught by God Himself. That's why we don't believe in behavior modification. Because Jesus says in John 14 and 15, the Spirit will guide you in all truth. I'm here to make sure you're ready. I'm arming you with readiness. You're armed with the truth. I'm arming you with readiness. Yeah. Oh man, we can go so many different things. Brother, right? Hey, that could be a part two. Talking about my God, that's so good, man. Because then you just create drones and people that are clones of you, but they don't have the heart of the father. There's no reverence. Well, that's where you start religion. That's where you start religion.

SPEAKER_02 55:14

You go through emotions and yeah, yeah, I'm that that becomes your behaviors become your your pathway to heaven.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

Yeah. And yeah, that's it. Right? Instead of being ready, man, because I want to see Jesus. Remember what he says, comfort each other with these. It is a comfort to know that I'm gonna be with Jesus forever. That comforts me. So therefore, I'm gonna be ready. Wait, what are you doing? How come you're well, how come you're forgiving? Because I'm getting ready for Jesus. Yeah, which makes sense. Well, how come you're telling the gospel? Because I'm man, I'm hey, I'm just staying ready for Jesus. Why are you staying faithful in love with your wife? What? Because I'm staying ready for Jesus, man. Why are you telling kids about Jesus? Hey man, I'm just being ready for him. I'm just why are you giving a tithing? Why are you going on missions trips? Dude, why are you dude? You could have keep all that money. Readiness, man. I can't wait to see Jesus. Yeah. I can't wait to see him. Because actually, those trappings actually they un they actually prohibit me. They weigh me down. They weigh me down. Like, you know, there are trash cans on the subway, so like if you need to toss the trash for you get off, you can do it. So there are some things you need to toss in a trash can so you can stay ready. Gotta put your phone up. You know, Trey, he's making sure, you know, he's got his backpack on. Destiny's, I started putting her earphones up so because you want to make sure to hear boom as soon as the train stops. So some of y'all, there are things you need to put away. I'm preaching. To make to help you stay ready. I mean, that's Mark chapter four. When he talks about the soil, the thorny soil, he says it's the it's not even sin, it's the cares of the world, the lures of money. That's what choked out the word. That's what choked out the readiness.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

Going back to our society, our democratic society, that I was gonna say it's it's not it's not the behavior, it's the posture. Yep. And and we're we're taught behaviors, we're taught rules, we're taught you and I, black and white, we're taught this is where everything goes. And and somebody was asking me about growing up in LA and and just how segregated it is, and and then as a child, we moved to the valley, the San Francisco Valley, and it was so diverse. So from being a like a kid kid to like a young teen, teenager, like I grew up in a whole nother world because it was so diverse. Yeah, but I go back now and it's even the same place I grew up in in the valley, now it's so segregated again. And I think it's our human nature to put things in the orders that we want where we feel comfortable. And and I don't know, it's it's crazy, but again, behaviors and our posture. And like I rather feel comfortable, I rather feel like I'm with what belongs to me. I'd rather have I'd rather do religion. Yeah, I'd rather people people ask, hey, how come we don't do this? I I've had people ask me, like, why don't we do communion when I know that the what the way they're living? I'm like, oh, you care about communion now? Like, like, you know, and it's like all these things, it's like like they want to do the routines, the traditions, because it makes you feel better about yourself that you're actually doing something, yeah. But like that's not what pleases God. He's he's after the posture of our heart, yeah. And man, and I I think we're going sideways on this, but but all of that in general, it prepares you for eternity.

SPEAKER_01 58:11

Yeah, yeah. Like you just you take them and you talk about you oh oh oh, you care about comedian. Oh, really? You living like hell. But you won't you won't talk about the way for any juice now. You need the whole loaf, brother. Brother, you need the whole bakery, no, and all the grapes.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Oh man.

Final Takeaways And Closing

SPEAKER_02 58:37

Oh, Jesus. Jesus. Oh, this was great. Yes, and we'll continue this conversation. Like I said, next week will be our last episode of the season, but we'll we'll we'll piggyback on this a little bit more. There's a lot to say. Yeah, I was just trying to be quiet because we can keep going on this. But again, this is awesome, bro. Yes, sir. Geeking out, geeking out, brother. Book of Revelation. Dun dun dun dun dun dun. Oh man. But once again, thank you guys for joining us on this podcast. And if there's anything we can do for you guys, we always say it, and you hear it at the end of the episode. We're here to serve you and to help lead you as best as we can as pastors as a church here at Life Point Church. You can find out more about our church on our website. And until next time, peace out.