Give God the Clipboard

Growth sounds inspiring until it asks you to reflect, confess, and admit where you've been stuck. We open Season 6 by looking back at how this show grew from worship foundations into honest conversations about leadership, formation, and what actually changed in us. Expect real talk on complacency, echo chambers, surrender, and why you can't grow in isolation.

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Transcript

Season Six Kickoff And Purpose

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hey, what's going on, everybody? My name is Elmer Cañas Jr., and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast. I'm here with my friend Willie C. Simpson Jr.

SPEAKER_02 0:19

What is up, man?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

What's going on, man? Hey, season six. Season six, bro. Season six. And we're excited. I'm excited. I know. I know you are. Yes, sir. And so we're glad that you are joining us today on the podcast. And today we are going to talk about we're just reflecting on just the previous seasons.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Yeah. Yeah. So we're going to be looking at how we've grown, you know, how our mindsets have shifted and even going to get open and honest about things that we may have gotten wrong. Yep. And how we've learned from those mistakes for sure.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah. And we're going to do it in 25 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah, we are.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Come on. We want to keep you, some of you listen while you're working out, taking a walk, making a meal. And it doesn't take you an hour to do all that. And so we want to be able to join you along your journey while you're listening.

Season One Worship Foundations Recap

SPEAKER_00 1:05

And so let's go all the way back to season one. Yeah. Our worship foundations season. It's when we initially initiated this podcast as a resource for our dream teamers, specifically in the creative space. Yeah. And we were teaching them on the tabernacle and why we worship our philosophy of worship here at Life Point. Yeah. And it was a great season.

SPEAKER_02 1:25

It was, yeah. And what I loved about it specifically was, you know, we weren't, we weren't just really teaching about like how to worship. We were really teaching on the theology of worship. You know, I mean, we went old school, old, old testament, you know, talking about the tabernacle and all the different furnishings and things like that, and our role as worshipers, as priests, uh and everything. So really enjoyed that specific series. But then to see how it grew and it morphed to just beyond worship leaders to really faith leaders, you know, your Christian leadership. So I really enjoyed that piece too. And then again, being willing to go even further in our identity as leaders, and then also, you know, kind of getting cultural and and being and and helping train and encourage our leaders on how they could live as as Christians in their spheres of influence. So yeah, it's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

And one of the things I love about going back, it's almost like when you watch home movies. Yeah. Or you don't we don't do that nowadays. Like you don't bust out the cassette tape or the VHS.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Young whippersnappers and whippers.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

What do you call the little DV tape movie? Oh yeah, the D V tapes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

That's what my parents had. That was in between the VHS and DVD. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And so like we don't do that now. We just scroll through our phones and we look at old pictures, old videos, or face our Facebook reminds us like, hey, look at you 10 years ago, right? And that happens a lot. Your memories. And uh, but us looking back at season one, season two, and and beyond,

Personal Growth Through Counseling

SPEAKER_00 2:45

just one of the things that stands out is the growth. I would say, you know, personal growth. Yeah. And there's a lot that has grown. I know in myself, yeah. I've learned, I think I've developed communicate a little bit better. Uh just because, you know, if you go back 10 years ago, I remember starting counseling just about 10 years ago for the first time. When I was about 35 years old, I started counseling for the first time. Yeah. And prior to that, I didn't know really how to communicate you know my emotions and feelings. I was a doer. Uh, I showed you that I cared by showing up and by doing the things. And it was hard for me to express things, even though I would journal things and everything. It was hard for me to verbally express how I felt or what I wanted to communicate. And and just listening to the podcast over the last six seasons, five seasons, it's I've just I've just thanked the Lord for the ability just to grow and develop. This has become a platform where we've been honest and transparent. And so it's been it has been a growing thing.

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, to your point, I know for me personally, again, I I would you you know you talk about transparency. I know that's where I've seen myself grow. It's just a willingness to be more transparent. Like, and I think you you know me better than most people, Omer. You know, I'm a thinker, you know, I'm I love, I'll nerd out on a topic. And and just because sometimes I can become a little bit too heady and intellectual, I don't always necessarily think, okay, how can I connect to this material and then connect with the audience as well? And so again, I went back and I, you know, I was telling you, I was listening to some of our former episodes, our past episodes over the weekend, and it's like, man, you just see, yep, Willie, you're you're you're talking really well about the subject, but like, how how does this topic impact you personally? What's your story in it? And so it's you know, I I have seen myself grow in that willingness to be more transparent. And and and you know, to be quite honest with you, I think myself getting in recovery and getting in therapy allowed me to flex that muscle with with without a without reservation. Yeah, there's wisdom in what you share, but then there's also a boldness and a bravery just to be open and eyes and say, hey, you know what? This topic that we're talking through, it's been a wrestle for me. It's a struggle, it's something that that the Lord continually molds and shapes me. Um and I think that's resonated with our listeners for sure.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

And I think there was a season or a pivot on the podcast, and a lot of it obviously as we're on it, and we did the podcast with others that were

When Vulnerability Changed The Podcast

SPEAKER_00 5:05

at the table, but there was this pivot that happened when vulnerability came to the table. And there was a word that you were using, uh, you were using the word confession. Yeah. And I I believe in that season of confession for you, yes, it became this season where our our viewers and listeners weren't just they weren't just hearing what you knew, they were actually seeing like Willie, like and and what what how you felt. And and I think that there's a lot to it. Yeah, and and we say all this, and the reason we bring all this up is because you know, think about your own life as you guys are are preparing. I know for us in this moment, kids are back in school, but we're going getting ready to go into the fall, coming out of the summer, and here in Tennessee, and we're going into a new season. Yeah, and then here come the holidays and all these different things. Christmas is coming, right? Yeah, and we move on and we go on to a new year and we just continue life as it was. And if you never self-reflect, if you don't take a moment to really look back at the patterns and the behaviors and you know, and how you've grown. Because the truth is, some people are are comfortable with complacency and being comfortable. Yeah. And if there's the if there's the greatest enemy of progress is gonna be complacency. Yeah, absolutely. Being comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, well, and again, I mean you you think about complacency really being the enemy of of growth because our God is not complacent. Philippians 1, 6, you know, that I remember you and I were talking through this text, and I love what what Paul says, he, God, who began a good work in you, is faithful to complete it

Complacency As The Enemy Of Progress

SPEAKER_02 6:40

until the day that the Lord Jesus returns. So I love the fact that number one, it's God who begins the work in us, he's faithful, and I like to equate faithfulness. I know it's a not a one-for-one, but I like to equate faithfulness with consistency, with constancy. Like what I love about God is that he is constantly involved in my life. You know what I mean? And then it says he's faithful to complete it. So I think when I think of like completing a work, like, you know, prior to entering into full-time ministry, I spent in my former life, I was in heavy civil construction. So I'm building these, you know, these big, tall mega structures, right? Roadways and bridges and skyscrapers, oil refineries, car plants. Like, that's what I did for almost 20 years. And and I loved it. And in the midst of doing that work, that progress, there are highs and there are lows. But there's a constant to where you say, okay, like here's the deadline, here's the completion date, you know, here's when we're going to do this. But you also, there were shifts that you had to make, shifts in weather. Hey, man, the material's not going to be here on time. Hey, you know, we some key personnel, they're just not going to be here. Hey, we have my uh equipment malfunction. So you have to shift and you use your word, you have to pivot. And our God does that in our lives. So then I likewise have to be willing to shift and pivot. So complacency will be the enemy of growth. Like again, we're in construction. If we say, hey, man, you know, we're making really good progress, machines are working good. I think we don't have to worry about doing audience and checklists anymore. No, you have to. I love what you said. You got to go back and review. And so I think as leaders, and just I think as people, that's what I think I love about life in general. What makes life exciting is the fact that there are seasons and opportunities to grow and to change. And sometimes it's painful, but that is that is how you just remain more effective for the kingdom and how you remain relatable to the people that God is sending you to.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Yeah, yeah. And a lot of times we we want we want certain things in our lives and we want new and cool things, but we keep doing the same things. Right. And you you've heard it said that the the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over. But expecting a different result. And expecting different results, but and that's crazy that that's insanity, right? Yeah. And uh, and so we're here just to help you reflect on that. I think one of the things that is important about growth and not staying comfortable is in in my life, is I have three children. Yeah. I have a spouse.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I have um a group of men that I meet with every every other Saturday, my men's small group. Yeah. I have a team that I lead here at the church. There's there's people. Yes. My life is not my own life to live. Yeah. And a lot of times we're like, well, this is what I want to do. And when you're living just for yourself, you could be complacent, go live out in the mountains, you know, like I little house in the prairie, and and nothing against that. But you know, like your life is not, it's not just yours to live. Like God wants to do something through your life, in your life, in you. Amen. And if we don't allow God to begin a work in us, and so again, we both referenced counseling. We didn't even talk about that before we started this episode, but the there was a work that began in us that we had to be intentional about. Yeah. To allow somebody else to listen or for us to speak and them to speak into our lives. And when you allow pastors and leaders or a counselor, you know, to speak into your life, a parent, a friend that you can trust, it it allows your guard to come down. And then it allows you to reflect on things that you've been doing forever,

Growth Requires Community Not Isolation

SPEAKER_00 10:05

and now someone else is can give you that perspective. Hey, like you shouldn't live life that way. Yeah. And because of this, and then just allowing other voices to speak into your life, healthy voices, allows you to take the next step and not stay where you're at.

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Well, and and again, to your point on that, like you said, it's people. And there's no way, I think the the biggest lesson that I learned from season one up to now was that Willie, you cannot grow in isolation. Like you, we don't get better in isolation. As a matter of fact, the the worst place that I can find myself that, and I've learned this, is to be in an echo chamber. Like when I am not only the loudest voice, but when I'm the smartest voice, man, I'm in trouble. And and so, like, like you say, counseling, my men's small group, having you like what one of my closest friends, my wife, my children, right? I I it's funny you mentioned that. I think now what I have learned for me personally is like the greatest barometer in my life is is Carolyn, Destiny, and Trey. They're the greatest barometer. Like they're able to let me know, like, okay, dad, like you're getting crusty around the edges, you're getting short. Like, and and and they'll just they'll call it out. Absolutely. Like, you know, my son will be like, Dad, why you why are you being so mean? It's like, oh, why am I being so mean? And so, but the health comes again through confession. The health comes in being able to receive that and not get defensive, not get angry, not get prideful, but to actually humble myself and say, Wow, you know what? I apologize. I'm sorry, you're right. That that that came up the wrong way. And that just helps to keep you in, you know, hold it in the middle of the road. You know, we're not perfect in that, but I'm able to hold that in the middle of the road and say, you know what? I was wrong. You know, put please forgive me. But then also the other piece of it, too, is that in those seasons of growth, I am as I'm being grown and developed, I'm still able to grow and develop others. I was having a great conversation with a really good friend of mine a couple of nights ago, and that was something that he was reminding me of. He's he's in athletics, he's a head football coach in northern Alabama, and I mean, just a brilliant kind of strategic thing, really, really like Pastor Mike, just like a high-level leader. And he was just saying, hey, Willie, like, don't forget, man, in seasons of growth for you, you're still able to grow and develop others. And he said, That's why no more when you say close to the Lord, but like stay close to mentors and pastors and fathers. Because what he was reminding me was like, your struggles or like your tensions are are not an excuse to not develop the people that God's given you. Yeah. And I was like, man, he was just, he was like, don't use it as an excuse not to do it. And he said, as a matter of fact, this is where the spirit comes in and enables you to continue to do to move forward in doing that. And I just thank God for him, you know, just really challenging me on that. And again, I was out of the echo chamber. Problem with the echo chamber is that it's real small because there's only room for one. But but now when I when I turn that into a window, I'm like, oh, any or or a house, a mansion, anybody's welcome to come in here. You know, and my father's house are many mansions. Okay, everybody come on in. You want growth development? Hey, follow me as

An 81-Year-Old Warning About Pride

SPEAKER_02 12:55

I follow Christ, but everybody's welcome to come in and it's not this last Sunday at church.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

I I between services, I walked out to the patio area and and there was this gentleman sitting down outside, and I approached him and I'm like, Hey, how you doing? He had this really cool fedora hat. Okay. I'm like, what's up, man? Like, that's a dope hat, bro. It's like, where'd you get it? And he's like, I got it at a thrift store by Riverside. And I'm like, You went thrifting? Because he was older. Yeah. And he goes, Yeah, I love thrifting. And and then he he I asked him, I go, How old are you? He goes, I'm 81. I'm like, what? He did not look 81. Wow. He was the coolest 81-year-old I've ever met. Like, just like cooler than us, bro. Yeah, yeah. And and then I just sat with him, and then he just started talking, and he started just sharing his life. And one of the takeaways I got from that conversation, because he landed on the word pride. And he goes, Man, I've lived I've I've lived a pitiful life in the sense of there's a lot of things that I did that I'm regretting now. And at 81 years old, and he goes, that the the thing that always kept me away from the Lord was pride. He goes, and I've had to turn back and come back to this place. And he was pointing to the church building, and he's like, you know, but I always come back to the cross, I always come back to the cross. Yeah. He goes, but learn. And he kept telling me, learn. Like, don't don't let pride keep you from the Lord. That's the most important thing. If if if if your own pride keeps you from that, it's gonna affect everything, your relationships. And then he started again, he was sharing his life. Wow. I I wanted to start like crying, but like the guy was like, like, he was a tough, cool guy. Like I didn't want to do that. And and it was incredible just to hear an 81-year-old man talk about like, hey, learn from my mistakes. Don't let pride keep you from doing what God's called you from the will and the purpose of God and serving the king of kings. He was like, this is the kingdom of God. And uh, and I want to encourage you guys don't let your pride keep you from being the person that God's called you to be, man. The person your spouse needs you to be, the person your children need you to be. It's it's not too late.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah, it's not too late.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

This 81-year-old man was sitting there, coming to he comes to church every Sunday, and he's like, I turned to the cross and I'm here and I'm gonna be here. Yeah, and and he's been coming faithfully at 81 years old, and he says, I wish I would have been here a lot sooner. And I just want to encourage you guys as we're talking about not being comfortable, growth, looking back. We look at your books and we're like, Man, look at my man, what was I thinking? I used to wear Hawaiian shirts to high school every day. Okay, my senior year. Yeah, and and then when I started dating my wife, she's like, You can't wear those anymore. And so now when I look back at pictures or someone posts a picture of me in high school, yeah, like, nah nah, what was I thinking? Right. I thought it was cool. Yeah, yeah. And and in the same way, like, don't wait, you know, for for life to pass pass by, and then you're thinking, Man, I should have done that. Yeah, I could have done things different.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, you know, that's so good, man. I I I love how, first of all, the Hawaiian shirts, that's hilarious. I I got to see those pictures. Jacob, go ahead and pull them up on the YouTube machine, brother. You know, it's it's man, again, this is why I love the idea of just community. I mean, for you for you to again meet that gentleman and for him just to pour out wisdom like that. I just I just again getting out of the echo chamber, getting out of this sort of mirror theology where like you see you only see yourself, right? It's just that that's the beauty and the benefit of it. And I do want to encourage all of you as well. Remember what Philippians 1.6 says, you know, it's God who begins the good work in you. And and the the the the best work, the goodest work, I'm gonna use that word, goodest work that God ever began in you is your salvation. And like

Surrender And Trusting God With Plans

SPEAKER_02 16:45

it starts there and really starts before there because he's drawing you, he's wooing you, he's he's he's he's reminding you, he's revealing himself to you. But that good work that he begins in you, he is faithful to complete it. So it doesn't rest upon you. Uh another word that I have learned, Elmer, though over the course of these six seasons is surrender. Yeah, man, just being open and honest. And I think, you know, you know, confession and and recovery and community, all of that for sure, and you know, all of that's kind of wrapped up in humility, like just surrendering and saying, okay, God, because you know, all of us as human beings, you know, we we have an idealized version of what we feel like our life should look like. We just have an idealized version. And so it's easy to bring those plans to the Lord and say, okay, God, these are the plans that I have. Here's the perspective, here's my wants. I want you to make this happen. Like, God, make this no God, this is the plan. I want you to make it happen. God, you're all powerful. Make this plan happen. And surrender says, God, here's the plan. You change it if you need to. Like, God, shift what you need to do. As a matter of fact, God, you know what? You can take this plan, rip it up, and give me the plan that you want. As a matter of fact, I'm surrendering to the point where I'm saying, okay, God, I'm actually giving you my plan and you give me yours. Come on. Like, you give me the plan. How about that? And what one of my mentors, he said, you know, he had a list of things that he was wanting God to do in his life on on, and he had put on a sheet of paper on a clipboard. And as he's writing middle of the way through, he's got, okay, I got these eight things right here, but this ninth, ninth, and tenth one, I'm gonna keep it. And the Lord said, Hey man, real surrender, looks like you're giving me the clipboard. And I was like, I'm I mean, I'm trying not to think about it. I mean, because that is scary, Elmer. It is, you know, Craig Rochelle, Pastor Craig Rochelle wrote a book Dangerous Prayers. And that's a dangerous prayer to pray. Not my will, but God, your will be done. That is dangerous to pray, but it's so exciting, and it's truly biblical because you're saying, God, either the author of life or your author of my life, I'm giving you the whole clipboard. You can have the whole clipboard and the pen. You get not to determine. And I'm like, that's trust, and that's scary, and it takes time. And that's what I've learned is but man, on the backside of Elmer, trusting the Lord fully with my life, fully with like my wants and my needs, has been the most exciting part of my faith walk with the Lord. Like I've seen him move even more, and it's Ephesians 3.20 on the backside of Philippians 1.6. Down to him who was able to do exceedingly above what I could ask or even think. I'm like, God, I was thinking way too small. My plan, seriously, my plan, my clipboard was way too small. Yeah, and in far as what the Lord wanted to do for me and through me. And so surrender, the backside of surrender, there's that joy, peace, fulfill, and true fulfillment.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Come on. Surrender. Surrender, surrender, surrender, surrender, surrender. It's it's uh man. I I created a social media post and it was talking about we're called to be a living sacrifice, and a living sacrifice is both fully surrendered, yeah, but it's faithful. Yeah. And so faithful isn't because something that's there, sometimes we we say, Oh, that person's been faithful because they're they're always there. Okay, that's true. But the the the act of showing up alone isn't what makes them faithful because they could be there and be the biggest pain in your butt. That's true. Right? That's a word. And so so present isn't isn't shouldn't define faithfulness. Okay, it's it's active and in the vision, and they carry your heart, like, and they're working with you towards the same goal.

Faithfulness Means More Than Showing Up

SPEAKER_00 20:20

And so when you're faithfully working towards something, you you share the same heart and same vision. Yeah, and so that whole scripture of we're called to be a living sacrifice, it's we're called to be faithful. So we're called to serve. Yeah, so we need to be serving in the church, we need to be serving others, yeah, but then fully surrendered, which is the sacrifice, yeah, which means Lord, your will be done. Yeah, yeah. And so those those two words have just been on my heart the last uh two nights, actually faithfulness and surrender, and they live in that scripture.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

That's a good point, man. I never thought about the idea of the fact that you're right, we tend to relegate or limit faithfulness to to presence. Oh man, they're so they're faithfully here.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

You used the word loyal.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yeah, same thing. Like we were presents. I'm like, well, what about someone who's invalid and can't? Are they can they not be faithful? You know, that's that's really good, man. And to your point, I mean, I think about Judas. Judas was present. He's there. Damn, but he wasn't faithful. No, man, that's good. Hey, that'll preach. I don't know. I feel I hey, I feel another podcast episode in that. I'm serious, bro. That is really good. Where we just kind of like disabuse people of these notions of what faithfulness terms like that look like. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, man. Let me talk about it. Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

Hey, real quick. You gotta you gotta answer this. Okay. So let's say five years ago, okay. What would Willie have thought success was? What did you think success was five years ago?

SPEAKER_02 21:39

Yeah, uh success for me five years ago, being completely honest, was me doing my own thing in ministry. That that that's that's when I've been like, okay, I've arrived. Me leading my own church or like teaching like my own course, being on staff at like a university or seminary,

Redefining Success As Investing In People

SPEAKER_02 21:55

like that that's and I've you know I've shared with you, I think the most placed in my heart, but five years ago. That's what I thought success was.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

What is it now to you?

SPEAKER_02 22:02

Investing in others. Ultimately, man, success is seeing my wife and my kids thrive. Yeah. Like that, man, that that's success. And I mean, I went in, I went into recovering confession for them. And so success is, man, my wife looks at me and and and there's just this sense of like love and like respect and honor. Like and then my kids, there's there's trust there. Like res, you know, that success is my kids come to me with hard things, you know, and and are willing to be vulnerable about that because there's a trust. So man, that that's success, man.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Because that led dad led by example.

SPEAKER_02 22:32

Yep, absolutely. Like I'm so yeah, that's success for me, man.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I think for me, I thought it's and it's a variation, it's not the whole concept, but for me, success five years ago was probably influence. Okay. Um, I remember it's gonna be six years this September since we moved to Clarksville. And so I think when I first got here, having had the opportunity to serve in different churches and and some great, great places, you almost feel like, oh, look at all the things I've learned. Yeah. And so then you step into a new environment thinking that your influence is gonna move the needle. And so, and though it's true it's in some ways, you know, you do bring on people to your teams and companies hire people because of their experience. Yeah, but sometimes I I again speaking about myself, yeah. I think I came in into that season five years ago thinking that my influence alone was what was gonna move and and cause success around me. And I've learned now it's it's not because influence alone isn't what people are expecting from you as a leader, it's the relational aspect. Yeah. And so I I came back to America and I shared my story before, and and I'll I'll dive deeper in another episode. Left, I was always in ministry, but went to Australia, knowing how to do church, came back in love with the church. Yeah because for me it was very rigid. Let's get things done. I was a workaholic, and in Australia, God really used the people there to heal me from I call it the addiction of work. Like I wasn't even focused on the people as much before I went over there. It was like we got to do the thing uh because Sunday's coming. It wasn't it wasn't even oh, people are coming to hear about the gospel. Oh wow it's it's Sunday's coming, so we gotta have everything, it has to look good, it has to feel good, it has to be presentable. So everything had to be excellence. That's always been part of my DNA. Everything had to be excellence, but but my target was a different target. It was it was I wanted to glorify God, but it's like with the wrong motives. Like God, I want to glorify you. And like my sight wasn't even on the church itself. Yeah. Because the work we do here as a church is for the people. So Life Point, we lead people to become fully devoted followers. Right, yeah. Like we're not there to display our devotion. Yeah, like so. That's not our intent. But I think before our season in Australia, I displayed my devotion. Look at me, look at what I've done, look at who I am, look at look at this is how I lead worship, this is how I live my life. My life has always been an open book, especially in ministry. But it was never about, hey, let me lead you, let me help you, let me develop you. Like it was very it was it was it was an echo chamber. I was doing ministry with other people, but for me, it was like, this is how I'm gonna do it. And and I know this answer is long, but but it God really used our season in Australia to heal me from that, and people became the the weight that I carry now. And so now I can say I love God and I love people with this with sincerity and honesty. And it's not just a slogan that I say, yeah, but it's the truth. And so now it's not influence alone, it's it's the relationships. And so I've learned over time that it's investing very much like to what you said, investing not just in my family, but in the people around me that's gonna make the biggest difference. Yeah, and part of that investment is growing and becoming a better me, a better person, individual, a better leader, a better father, better, better husband, a better friend, better son.

Next Topic Character Before Platform

SPEAKER_00 26:05

And as I'm doing that, I'm helping others around me as well. Yeah, it's so good. Yeah, but thankfully I'm not the same person, and I hope I'm not the same person five years from now. Same here. I want to keep growing and growing for the for the glory of God, amen.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Amen, amen.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

Amen. And so next episode, we're gonna talk, we're gonna be talking about character development. Yes. And talking about character before the platform.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

That's right. Man, I'm excited about that one because I think we'll have some have some good conversation and have a fun guest.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:33

Maybe. Maybe. You never know. You never know. You guys gotta tune in. You gotta tune in. You gotta tune in. We'll see you guys. We love you guys, and thanks for joining us on the Worship and Leadership podcast. Peace.