The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Real conversations on worship, leadership, and living a faith-filled life beyond the platform. Hosted by leaders from LifePoint Church, this podcast is here to inspire, equip, and challenge you—whether you’re leading in ministry, in the marketplace, or just learning to lead yourself well.
The Worship and Leadership Podcast
Covenant Friends
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You can know a lot of people and still feel alone.
In this episode, we look at David and Jonathan and what it means to have friendships that go beyond convenience, proximity, or shared interests. Jonathan didn’t just know David. He found him in the wilderness and “strengthened his hand in God.”
We talk about covenant friendship, why leaders need more than buddies, what keeps us from real connection, and the difference between a mentor and a true friend. We also unpack how small groups can become places where genuine community, discipleship, and care are built.
The question isn’t just, “Who are your friends?” It’s who strengthens you, and who are you strengthening?
Welcome And Today’s Big Idea
SPEAKER_02What's going on, everybody, and welcome to the Worship and Leadership Podcast. My name is Elmer Cañas Jr. Willie C. Simpson Jr.
SPEAKER_00Bienvenidos. Yes.
SPEAKER_02No, welcome to the English podcast, the Worship and Leadership Podcast. Pastor Willie. Yes.
David And Jonathan’s Covenant Bond
SPEAKER_02You know, Jonathan in the Bible had every reason to see David as a rival. Absolutely. But instead he chose to be in covenant relationship with him. Yeah. And most leaders never make that choice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're right. Yeah, David and Jonathan, they actually show that friendship, it's a spiritual discipline and it's not a leftover. And so our anchor text today comes out of 1 Samuel 18. And so for context, you know, this is where we find David, who is serving underneath King Saul. He's Israel's first human king. And Saul has a son named Jonathan. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is there another type of king?
SPEAKER_01Like Yeah. So Israel had Yahweh. They had the Lord God Almighty as their king.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And they wanted to have a human king. They said, we want to be like all the other nations.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01God is like, okay, you know, you don't really know what you're asking for.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01But I'll go ahead and give you a human king. All right.
SPEAKER_02So that makes sense. I'm like thinking like.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, right. And then you got the king of the jungle. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_02You got it. You know what I'm saying? All right, cool. Just for clarity.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Thank you. And then, you know, you got. Yeah, that's it. Okay, so you got David and you got Jonathan. And I mean, they are homeboys. I mean, they are router dies. They they they they grew up together, they do life together. And I love how 1 Samuel 18 really describes their friendship. It says, as soon as they'd finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul. And Saul took him that day and would not let him return to his father's house. Then Jonathan made a covenant with David because he loved him as his own soul. And so, you know, that language there, you know, we got to bring some clarity and context to that. Scripture's not saying that that David and Jonathan were soulmates, but it says that they they love one another as they love themselves. I mean, it really is this kindred covenantal love that you can see between David and Jonathan.
Encouragement When Saul Hunts David
SPEAKER_01And further on in 1 Samuel 23, we can see how Jonathan really becomes a blessing and an encouragement to David because now, you know, there's tension between David and Saul, where, you know, Saul, because he fails horribly as king, God removes him through the prophet Samuel. He says, Hey man, you know, you I've I've removed you as king, and I'm gonna set up David in your place. So Saul responds with bitterness, hatred, and jealousy to the point where he actually is making multiple attempts on David's life, actively trying to kill this man. And David has done nothing but serve him faithfully and honorably, right? So I love 1 Samuel chapter 23, starting at verse 15. And the subtitle of this paragraph is Saul Pursues David. David saw that Saul had come to seek out his life. And David was in the wilderness of Zif at Horish. Here it is, verse 16. And Jonathan, Saul's son, rose and went to David at Horash and strengthened his hand in God. Verse 17. And he said, This is he, this is Jonathan saying to David, do not fear, for the hand of Saul my father shall not find you. You shall be king over Israel, and I shall be next to you. Saul my father also knows this.
SPEAKER_02That's so good. Man, that's so good.
SPEAKER_01That right there, guys, that's the example of that's covenant friendship.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, at his worst, one of the worst times of his life, bet his best friend comes through and encourages him.
SPEAKER_02And and it's a choice, it's a decision that that Jonathan is making to be by his side. And when you think of a lot of friendships, a lot of times when you make an acquaintance, so if it's at work or at school or at church, wherever, you try to find people that you connect with. Yeah. And you try to find things that we have in common. It's like, oh man, they're all into football, basketball, whatever. And then based on the things that we can relate to, we tend to build our relationships on that. And in reality, a lot of times that is very hollow. Yeah. Because the second you remove the common denominator, then there's not a lot of depth there. Yeah. And you look at this relationship with David and Jonathan, like they had every reason again to be opposition, but there was just something deeper that led Jonathan to commit to David, and then vice versa. Then David saw the loyalty, and he's like, all right, man, if you're gonna give your life for me, I'm gonna give my life for you. Yeah. And those are the friendships that I believe will go a lot deeper and are very meaningful.
Why Acquaintances Stay Shallow
SPEAKER_02Uh, I think in in leadership in particular, yeah, when you talk to pastors or leaders of organizations and businesses, a lot of times they struggle to actually have friends and to or to keep friends. A lot of like it's easy to have a lot of acquaintances. Think of a a church of our size at Life Point. There's thousands of people that come in and out through the doors of all of our campuses. Yeah, but in reality, you know, the the number of friends that a leader can have within our church, it's you'd probably count them on in your hand, one hand. That's true. And and that's because there's there's there's this massive common denominator. We have Jesus as like that's sorry, we're all gathering because we're coming to worship King Jesus, yeah, you know, not Mufasa, uh, but King Jesus, and and then we come together. But even though we have that common denominator, we're brothers and sisters in Christ, yeah. But that doesn't necessarily make us friends immediately. Absolutely. You know, that doesn't mean that everyone's invited to my house, that everyone's invited, you know, to just open my fridge and and you know all my business and stuff like that. No, like that that takes intentional development and a commitment for me to be able to share with you and then vice versa. Yeah. Which is something that we see in small groups.
SPEAKER_01Yes, absolutely. And you know, I piggybacking on what you just said there, Pastor Elmer, you know, that I I look at the word friend like the word love. It's something that we just it's bandied about. You know, we we throw it around, like, you know, again, I I love football or I love fried chicken. I mean, I, you know, I love going to the beach. And it's the same way in using the term friend, it's almost like we use that term synonymously with buddy. Hey, this is my buddy. And it's like, you know, the re you guys are really more of an acquaintance because you just have a common shared interest or a shared goal. Like you said, in this case, it is Christ. He's he's our He's our shared anchor. And so, but true friendship will cost you something. True friendship will make you uncomfortable so that way you can grow into the man or woman that God wants you to be. And that's why small groups are so important. And this is what differentiates small groups from just a social gathering. It's this covenantal aspect where you are really committing to one another through the spirit, right? This is what Ephesians talks about one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one spirit that bonds us in the unity of love. And small groups are the place where you do find friends and you do build relationships, but then there is also where you receive and you extend discipleship, you encourage each other. Jesus says to go make disciples, teaching one another to obey. Well, this is what covenantal friends do as well. In discipleship, there's a sharpening, there's a challenging, there's a growing, right? And then lastly, it is care. You are cared for within the context of your small group, within the context of Christian community.
SPEAKER_02I think of a lot of my relationships, and there's a lot of people that are close to me, close to me, my family, and then there's those that are close because either developing them, investing in them, they find their accountability in me. Right. And so then there is a difference, and I just want to make this distinct. There is the difference when you have a mentor or a coach or someone that's speaking into your life, right? And it's easy to want to make them your friend or see them as a friend, even pastors. Yeah. Even our our own pastors and leaders, we want to to be in a friendship relationship with them. Right. But in reality, there is gonna be there is gonna be a line that has to be drawn because these individuals are people that we're giving permission to speak into our life for formation. We're giving them permission to speak into our life for correction, for for rebuke when it's needed. Right. And so there's there are things that we probably won't say around you know, some of our leaders or the people that are helping shape us, right, that we would probably like I you you hear the term, I can't say I'm putting my hair down. You know, it's kind of relaxing. But but you hear those terms that, hey, like I just want to turn it off, or I just want to let my hair down and you know, around around my friends. Right. And there are people in your life that you even though you respect them and you honor them and you've given them that place of authority to speak and correct and form and shape, in all reality, you're not gonna be the same person around them that you would be around probably some covenant friends. Yeah. People that they know you in the good, yeah, they know you in the bad. Yeah. And so that's the distinction I want to make right now in relationships because you should form relationships with people that are gonna invest into you, and you should be investing into others. That that mentorship relationship is important. Yeah, but this is this is a little different.
Mentors Versus Covenant Friends
SPEAKER_02The relationship between Jonathan and David wasn't about David forming Jonathan or Jonathan forming David. This was as they had each other's back. Yes, they were looking out for each other, they were they were loving each other, and and even throughout scripture, it's not like they would go hang out, you know, with slingshots by the creek, you know, like they weren't hanging out, yeah. But there was just this connection between the two that was was of God.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I love that piece there. Like you said, I and I appreciate you really delineating, Elmer, between you know, the difference between you know a mentor-mentee relationship, which is important, and I and again, vital. Like we we all need those relationships. You everybody needs a mentor, and everybody needs to be mentoring others. Like I it keeps you sharp, you know, it by bilaterally. I'm sharpened by my mentors, and I'm sharpened as I mentor others, right? But man, the the the cov and this is why I I believe personally, like covenant friendships, you know, that should be like a super small circle because there's wisdom in knowing who you can have that divine flow kind of relationship. Pastor Mike would use, he's used that term before you meet somebody and you just have just like a divine flow type of relationship with them, right? Or you're like, hey, this isn't seasonal, right? This isn't seasonal, this isn't attached to vocation, this isn't you know attached to geography. It is like, man, if we move to opposite corners of the earth, we will remain connected forever. And you see this here with David and Jonathan. I mean, Jonathan hears David is hiding out miles away in a cave. And he goes to him and he's like, hey man, I just want to remind you, number one, you will be the king. And I I'm here to strengthen you and to let you know my father's not gonna lay a hand on you. I mean, you can you imagine the encouragement that you know that that would have been for him in that, you know, and and honestly, man, just being real and honest, there was a moment that I had last year where it was like legit spiritual warfare going on in my home, like legit. And I remember I just sent out a group text just to some guys, and I and I remember I started the text by saying, brothers, the enemy has encroached upon territory that does not belong to him. That's that that's how you know, just to let them know this is what's going on. And I said, I am texting you all because I I know you will pray and I need you to pray. And it was a mix of mentors and small group members. And man, just the encouragement that they were immediately just blowing up my phone. We are praying right now with scriptures. Guys are, you know, they're calling me. I'm not answering because I'm going off from warfare, my own prayer language, but in that moment it was like, okay, this is what the brotherhood is about. Like this, this is what covenant friendship looks like in action.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean? And like you said, you know, and you know, the world talks about like, you know, when you go through hard times, you'll find out who your friends are. I I truly believe that. I really do believe that. When you go through hard times, you will find out who is a buddy and who's a covenantal friend. And I think you need both. I need buddies, I can just pal around, like you said, I can let my hair down, you know. But man, I need covenant friendships, covenant friends who will sharpen me, who will encourage me, who will not judge me, even a correction, it's always going to be redemptive. But but like they they really know me and they know how to speak to that that part of me where it's like, okay, that it's it's activated, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I love that. And I I'm just curious how many of you that are listening or watching, you know, have have faced this or are going through a season where it might be difficult and you feel like you're friendless.
AI Connection And Real Loneliness
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Because that is a thing, that is part of our society at the moment. That that because of technology, yeah, because of social media, we feel the most connected ever.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_02But we're the most disconnected when it comes to like to to relationships, like physical relationships, and and really having conversations with humans. Yeah. We've we've had the conversation about AI on the podcast, you know, being a companion.
SPEAKER_01Being a companion.
SPEAKER_02We've talked about that. And and it is crazy, and it's only advancing. Yeah. And more and more people are giving more of their time and and of this level of friendship to device, yeah, you know, or to a robot. I don't know what we call it. Yeah. Artificial intelligence.
SPEAKER_01That's what it's a it's a yeah, it's an artificial artificial intelligence, learning a learning machine. That's what it is. It's it's this it's machine learning, it's designed to assimilate and to approximate human relationships. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And with and and again, I think we we've addressed the fact in the past how people feel that their own symptoms, so I'm an extrovert or introvert, justifies their their response to like, well, I don't need physical relationships. Like, I could just do that with you know Gemini or whatever, chat, whatever they're called. Yeah, yeah. And and and you have this artificial relationship that might be fulfilling or satisfying certain certain things in your mind, but I I love about what the scripture says about Jonathan and David, it did something in their soul. Yes, there was something deep inside that it did that a relationship with technology will never fulfill. Uh, people that are gamers, again, nothing against gaming. Right. Uh people that all they do is play sports or or always at the gym, yeah, or or they pick up, you know, we all the way to drinking and drugs. And yeah, there these are ways that we cope with the emptiness of the lack of. Yeah. God's called us to be in relationship. The Bible says that we were not meant to be alone. And that's not just with our companion, with our spouse. Yeah. That's in in life, in relationships, in the way that we live life. That's why we always push small groups, and we're asking people, hey, you need to join a small group. Yep. It's the best thing we do because it's the best thing for you. Yeah. Because on this journey, as you're getting to know Jesus, as you're growing, as you're maturing, wherever you are on the journey, you need other people by your side. Right. And it could be a crowd, it could be a few, but among them you will find a friend. Yes. And I think that's the important thing to really find and develop those friendships. But, all right, let's talk about this. Why do people avoid friendships?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, like with actual people. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, with with with other flesh and blood human beings. I think it is for three primary reasons. Just off the top of the of the dome, real quick. Number one, because of what I like to call societal and environmental conditioning. We are conditioned to be individualistic. In the West, we are just we grew up in a context where the self has been raised up to the highest level of autonomy. So we have been conditioned to believe because of sin and because of environment that we are self-sufficient. We really believe this. And so we focus on getting the self healthy, self-help. Come on. Self-discovery. Oh, I just have to discover who I am, and then I'm good. That's number one. Number two, I believe it is out of fear. I believe that there is a certain bravery and courage that it takes to be vulnerable and transparent and honest. But there's a real fear that drives the hesitancy in doing that because either a prior experience, hey, I did this and I was I was slapped down. I was punished for being open and honest, right? Or maybe there was a lack of reciprocation. Hey, I opened up and I poured out, and it was like putting water down a drain. It just, you know, there was no fruitfulness. Uh and then thirdly, I would say a mix of ignorance and lack of awareness. I don't think, Omer, that people really do understand fully the benefit and the blessing of having true, close covenantal friends. I I think by and large, people struggle with that to see the need. And I think it's about a perspective shift. A perfect example, again, is being in a small group. A small group does take time and sacrifice. So I would say if if it was a fourth one, I would say just the unwillingness to sacrifice and like open up their life to it. It is a sacrifice for my wife and I to host our marriage small group. I mean, by by doing that, by opening our home, that is two hours that we are giving away to our group that are not being spent on something else, right? So, yeah, that you just have to be, but the perspective shift happens when I don't look at it as something to just check off the list. It's like I can't wait to meet with the brothers and sisters in our lives and to and to and to encourage each other. Like right now, you know, we're we're reading through the book of James and we're just going, we're just doing an inductive Bible study, and it's just it has been so refreshing. It's been amazing because of what we're learning from each other. And it's like, man, I can't wait to be in the house and talk through this. That's a perspective shift as opposed to, man, we have to lead our small group. It's we get to do, no, it's we get to do life, we get to see our brothers and sisters again. So I so those are the reasons that I that I really do think, by and large, people do not seek it out or sustain in the long term.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And and because of that, we're missing out on a lot. Yes. And uh, and I'm not saying that every relationship is great and amazing. Yeah, because it will be hard. Yeah. There is there is the giving of yourself, other people doing the same, and sometimes it's not reciprocated the same way. And and so it it's it's like when we tell our kids, hey, just go out and make a friend.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right?
SPEAKER_02Go go out at the playground, go play, go talk to somebody, you know, get to know someone. Yeah, and it's easier for us as adults to tell that to children, yes, but not to put it into practice ourselves. Yeah, and so it's it's important. And why is it part of this conversation on the worship and leadership podcast?
Jesus And His People Together
SPEAKER_02The reason this made it to this table and to this, you know, to this podcast where we're talking about it, is because relationships matter. Yeah, I think in your formation as a leader, as a person, relationships are vital. Yeah for David not having Jonathan by his side, like had he not had that insight, that that that backing, knowing that oh hey, my boy's got me. Yeah, you know, I David trusted God. Yes. That would there's no doubt about that. Like he he stood before before a giant, right? You know, and just took him down saying, Hey, Lord, the Lord's got me. That's right. So I know he trusted God. Yeah. But he also trusted Jonathan. And so there was there were certain things that I and we always talk about David's character, but I wonder at times that what if you know, out of his relationship with Jonathan, he's like, you know what, I'm gonna continue to honor, you know, Saul because that's my that's my brother's dad. Yeah, you know, like I there's he's human, he was human, so like I I can just imagine sometimes he probably got fed up with all the things that were happening. I don't know, that's I'm I'm just thinking through that processing, right? But there's just something about having relationships that it just it reinforces things in you.
SPEAKER_01You know, I'm I'm actually glad you said that Pete Schizero, you know, he's written the the emotionally healthy series, emotionally healthy leader, emotionally healthy discipleship, and emotionally healthy spirituality, all of those. And that is that is such a key point that you just made there, Pastor Elmer, about you know, David did trust the Lord, but David also trusted Jonathan. So Dave David needed his God and he needed his friend, he needed both. And I think sometimes we as Christians we can over-spiritualize that to the point where we say, Man, all I need is me and Jesus. Yes, and it's not yes, but, but it's yes and you need his people. I mean, the scriptures are full. Our own Savior says to his own disciples I no longer call you servants because the servants don't know what the master is doing. He says, I now call you friends. When he's in the Garden of Gethsemane, why is he cast down in his soul? It's number one, about his impending death on the cross, but also because his brothers, his friends couldn't stay up to pray with him. Think about that for a second. This is Jesus, God in the flesh. God the Son, he's Yahweh, the eternal, self-existent one, needs his friends. And he's like, Y'all couldn't stay up to pray. I mean, friendships are woven in the fabric of scripture because our God exists within the Godhead exists within relationship. There's vitality among the Father, the Son, and the Spirit, right? Among the Godhead. And you see relationships, it's not, man, God says it's not good for man to be alone. He's not saying it's not good for man to be unmarried. It's just not good for man to be in solitude, in perpetual solitude. So the notion that you just only need Jesus is fallacious. You need Jesus and you need Jesus people. You need both. Right? And and so, man, again, I I just want to echo what my brother said. Guys, build your own community. I remember when my wife, Karen, and I, we moved from Murray, Kentucky. We have both finished up getting our degrees, our college degrees. We moved down to Tuscaloosa, Alabama, Tidl Town. Come on, somebody. And we knew nobody there. Now I'm from Alabama. I'm just a little, I'm from further south of Montgomery, so hours away from Tuscaloosa. And so it was a mixed of ex a mix of excitement and anxiousness because we were like, hey, you know, we were starting this new life. We're newlywed. It's like, what are we going to do? You know? And I and I remember Carolyn looked at me as we, our parents had helped help us, our family helped us, you know, move all our stuff. And you know, they're all driving away. And she looks at me, and we're just really emotional. She's like, what are we going to do? And she could verify this. I I said, we're going to build our community. That's what we're going to do. We're going to find a church home, first of all. We're going to find a home church. And then we're going to get plugged in. But I remember just saying, hey, we're going to we're going to build our community. We're going to do what we did when we were in college. We're going to build our community. And that's how not only did we survive, but we thrived. We lived there for almost a decade. And that's why. Because we had community. So, guys, I want you to note that like community, it's not automatic. You have to be intentional and deliberate about it. And I and God meets you in when you put legs to your faith. God will meet you there. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Come on.
SPEAKER_01As you pray and say, God, I'm I'm going to open my life up. I want you to send friends. And then you go to places to whether it's at work or whether it's at church or at the gym and you say, or in your neighborhood, God will bring them to me because you are reaching out in faith. And he always, always rewards faith. The Bible says in the book of Proverbs, he who desires friends must show himself friendly. Show yourself friendly. Show that you are open and desirous for relationships. See that you need that that it's a and not only that, but there's somebody who needs you. There's somebody right now on the other side of your life who's praying. Man, is there anybody out there, Lord, that you know, that I could just do life with and hang out with? And you know, we can go to the movies, we can chop up with scripture, we could be eating sushi and be exegeting Ephesians 1. Like, you know, they're praying, and God is like, I want to send you, but you got to show yourself friendly. Yeah. Come on, man. Praise the Lord. Come on.
SPEAKER_02Hey, no, I love it. I love
Who Strengthens You This Week
SPEAKER_02it. Love this conversation. And so for you, the listener, I and you, I just want to challenge you. Who strengthens you? Who is that friend for you? And who are you doing that for? Like at the same time, like who are you strengthening and supporting, encouraging? And so if you have that person in your life already, I want to dare you to send them a text right now and just say, Hey, I am thinking about you, praying for you, be encouraged. You're awesome. If you don't, we we're believing God has your friend, yes, like a Jonathan and David, that's gonna be a great brother, great sister for you on your journey. Amen. And hey, don't do this alone. Don't do life alone. That's right.
SPEAKER_01Amen.
SPEAKER_02Cool. Hey, but once again, thanks for joining us on the Worship and Leadership Podcast. Until next time, peace.
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