Rich, Poor, and Everything In Between: The Stories We Carry About Money

Ever wondered why some people stay calm when money's tight while others spiral into anxiety? This raw, honest conversation explores our complex relationship with money and how deeply it affects our identity, self-worth, and happiness.

Carmen opens up about her journey from having substantial wealth to losing everything in the 2008 financial crisis, revealing the emotional whiplash that comes with financial extremes. "I had made more money in one year than my mother had made her entire life," she shares, describing the mixture of achievement and sadness that accompanied her success. Despite her financial abundance at that time, she wasn't happy - proving that money and joy don't automatically go hand-in-hand.

We explore childhood memories that shaped our understanding of wealth and poverty. Remember when having a pool or even just a car meant someone was "rich"? These early classifications stick with us, informing how we see ourselves financially decades later. Cynthia surprises everyone by revealing that her most financially comfortable period was during COVID when spending naturally decreased, while Rick recalls only feeling "rich" during youth while living with his parents without bills.

The conversation tackles tough questions about billionaires, social responsibility, and the systems that keep people trapped in poverty. We challenge the notion that those receiving assistance should have their spending dictated, arguing that this approach perpetuates environments of lack. "If you are a good and decent person, you should help people... and not then turn around and say to them, 'but you can only spend it on this, this and this,'" Carmen argues.

We wrap up by asking: If money didn't define your worth, what would? The answers - kindness, making the world better, and maintaining personal conviction regardless of financial circumstances - remind us that our value extends far beyond our bank accounts.

Join us every Friday night at 6pm Pacific/9pm Eastern for our Friday Night Lives where we continue these meaningful conversations together. Because at the end of the day, it really is all about the joy.

Thank you for stopping by.  Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share.  

You can now watch the livestream version of the show on YouTube at @CarmenLezeth 

You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly.  Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.

Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER:  As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast.  Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance. 

Transcript

Welcome and Introduction

Carmen Lezeth 0:04

Hi everyone. Welcome to All About the Joy, the Private Lounge, rick Costas in the house and welcome back Just Cynthia.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 0:14

I just saw that.

Carmen Lezeth 0:16

I know she did that last time, though, because I kept saying her name, I kept messing with her last two names like being ridiculous. So now it's just Cynthia. I think you should get that as a website, but that's just me. So you know, I wanted to have a conversation just about and I know it's not everyone's favorite topic, but I think it's important. Let me tell you what happened this week. So all of you know that I am now moving on from the workload that I've had with all these clients, primarily because of the fires, but also it's just time.

Carmen Lezeth 0:49

And so one person took me out to lunch the other day and said you know, you're not even freaking out. Why are you not stressed out? Like, did you win the lottery or something? And I was like, yeah, I won the lottery and I'm sitting here having lunch with you hoping that you'll pay. I won the lottery and I'm sitting here having lunch with you hoping that you'll pay.

Money Anxiety vs. Peace

Carmen Lezeth 1:06

But I think what he was getting at was more about that it doesn't really affect me, like I'm not afraid, I'm not scared or whatever, and that's more about just experience. That has you know what I mean. Like money comes, money goes, and you got to be able to deal with that, especially when you're kind of what I do, which is a freelancer I have my own business, like sometimes I have so much work and then sometimes I don't have any, and so we're in that low period right now, and so I started thinking about how people process dealing with money, and I wanted to start by asking I'm going to start with Cynthia. So do you remember a time, cynthia, when you felt you had enough money, that you had an abundance of money? When was that time, and what did it feel like it was?

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 1:50

actually during COVID I think it was because, you know, we couldn't go anywhere, we couldn't spend any money. I was bringing lunch rather than buying food because, again, you weren't sure who you could trust with your food. So I definitely was spending a lot less money during that time. So I think I was that was the time I had the most, to be honest.

Carmen Lezeth 2:21

Do you remember feeling? Well, it's so weird that you said COVID Like most people were freaking out during COVID. But can I and again, anything you guys don't want to share? You don't need to share at all. I'm just going to ask questions. You know what I mean. So why did you have enough money during COVID and everybody else was suffering? What were you doing? Billionaire, I wish.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 2:45

Honestly, like I said, I wasn't shopping, I wasn't doing anything. I'd go to work or I would stay home and during that time, like we would switch off every week. So like one week I'd work from home so I wouldn't have to waste gas, I'd have my food here at home, and then another week I'd be in the office and again bring my lunch and I was driving less, using less gas, wasting less money. So my whole paycheck was just basically going into my savings.

Carmen Lezeth 3:19

So going into your savings. It's so funny. I love you with all my heart. Everyone always tries to act as if I'm bougie and I have like all this money. I'm the one who's living like paycheck to paycheck, cynthia's, like I was just putting money into my 401k and my savings and investing in the video stock market Okay, cool. So you felt really good and you felt very comfortable during COVID, which, I have to say, I don't know anybody except you, unless Rick, is going to tell me it was during COVID. I'm going to lose my mind, rick. When did you remember a time when you had more than enough?

Rick Costa 4:02

The only time I felt like I was, I mean, I never, never, had a lot, ever, ever. But the only time I felt like I was slightly living large was when I was very young, still living with, living with my parents. I had a job, no bills, there was no such thing as cell phones. Back then, um, I would, I had, I had money to spend. I got the most expensive, expensive TV, I got the most expensive VCR. I was like, yeah, I got the money whatever and no concept of saving money. So, yeah, that's the only time I really felt like you know, you can buy whatever you want, but now no.

Carmen Lezeth 4:37

You know it's so weird because we don't really appreciate when we were younger unless we look back on it. But when you're young and you don't have all those bills and you're just trying to figure out if you can get money to go hang out and go to the club, and you know, will I have enough money? And I have to ask so-and-so, and blah, blah, blah, and that's like your big priority. You don't even understand what it's like to have to actually deal with. You know, I have to pay my utility bill or my cell phone bill, or it won't. I won't have it if I don't pay it. You know? Um, well, I I wrote my first book and that moment was a moment when I realized I had way more money than my mother ever had in her entire life, and that so, and I have no problem telling people. So at that time I was working, I was a partner at a company that had started out with like seven people and we grew really, really big and I was part of that whole process. I became a partner and I was getting a K one and for people who don't know what a K one is, it's basically a bonus structure. You get a percentage of the companies and I had flown in from New York I'll never forget this Came to my condo. I had a $650,000 condo.

Carmen Lezeth 5:53

Cynthia, did you ever come to my condo in Brentwood? Shame, it was beautiful. It was beautiful, it was very beautiful. But I had this condo and the thing that was amazing about it was and I like if there was ever a time you would say I was a minimalist, it was then because I had so much space and no furniture and that's how I liked it. But I had this amazing patio that ran the entire length of the condo, like one whole side was just all kind of glass and beautiful windows and those old shutters, you know, and it overlooked the pool and I definitely had the best condo out of the apartment complex or whatever the condo complex. And I say all this to give you a picture.

Carmen Lezeth 6:35

And I came home from New York, I put my bags aside and all my mail had been laid out for me by my assistants back then this is what I'm saying and I had been working in New York and had come home and I was going through my mail and my K-1 check was there. So that was on top of my salary at the time, which was like $150,000, was like my salary, and then my K-1 check was like another $120-something thousand dollars, right, because that's how it works. And I remember sitting on that, I had like a lounge chair and I had all these beautiful flowers. You know, I had somebody come to do the flowers and water them, so it was beautiful and you can ask Baata and Andrea because they came to the condo, yeah, and I sat there and I cried and it was a mixture of complete and utter sadness and an uncomfortableness, because I realized in that moment that I had made more money in one year than my mother had made her entire life, probably more money in one year than my mother had made her entire life, probably, you know.

Carmen Lezeth 7:48

And that's when I started writing the book, because I started to realize I wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for all of these people, and so I started writing the letters and that's how the book Canela came to be?

Rick Costa 8:00

Did you also think I wish my mom could see me now?

Carmen Lezeth 8:03

No, okay, because and this is I mean. I say that for a lot of reasons. Number one I don't really remember my mom, I don't. And then the other part of it too is I just because I had an abundance of money doesn't mean I was happy because I wasn't.

Rick Costa 8:23

I was miserable.

Carmen Lezeth 8:23

Say that for the people in the back.

Carmen Lezeth 8:25

Let me say it again yeah, but I was. I was, you know, I was working ridiculous amount of hours, I was traveling back and forth to New York. I really wasn't spending that much time with friends, or you know what I mean Like I was and I was overwhelmed and I was doing something I hate to do. I mean, I was managing offices and doing all of this money stuff, and just it was. I wasn't happy. So, no, I would have never wanted my. I think that's what the problem was. On the one hand, I had enough money and abundance of money, on the other hand, and I was sitting in this beautiful condo that, by the way, I never wanted, never wanted, but I bought it because back then, before the crash came right, because in 2008, 2009, we had the financial collapse and I lost my condo, couldn't get work like everyone else. So money is fleeting, it's very fleeting, it comes and it goes, but um why the apartment?

Rick Costa 9:25

Or you didn't want it? You said.

Carmen Lezeth 9:26

Oh, I did not want to go. So back then you were told thank you for reminding me. Back then you were always told you have to invest in property. That was the big thing. They don't do that now. Nobody pressures you now.

Moments of Financial Abundance

Carmen Lezeth 9:38

But when I met with my business manager I had a business manager back then they were like Carmen, you can't keep giving money away. You can't. Like I would, I would buy, you know, books for a classroom or I would, and you can't write that stuff off. And I actually was like, yeah, I don't care, it's fine. They're like no, no, but it'd be better.

Carmen Lezeth 9:56

You got to invest and so I bought this condo is beautiful condo, but I never wanted to own anything because it's just not my thing. It's not my thing. It's not that I wouldn't own anything in the future, but, like my car, I'm gonna own it, I'm gonna keep it because I love it. And but I was just like being forced to do something that I didn't want to do. So but that's why I want to talk about this, because even in that moment and I was, I was so, I was so kind of glad but sad, and you know that's why I started writing my book I wasn't that happy, you know. I wasn't full of um positive feelings, except that I could. I could easily pay my bills and help other people, you know. And then the financial collapse happened and I lost everything, like everyone else did.

Rick Costa 10:48

Did you have to sell it at a loss or no?

Carmen Lezeth 10:50

I'm sorry.

Rick Costa 10:51

Did you have to sell it at a loss or no?

Carmen Lezeth 10:53

Oh, I totally sold it at a loss and I don't mind sharing with people because I think people have to know that I had to short sale it and then I didn't even have any work. There was no way and a lot of people had to go through this. So I don't mind sharing that information because I think people need to understand how things happen. And are you a good person when things go bad? Who are you when things are really hard?

Rick Costa 11:24

It also matters who are you when things?

Carmen Lezeth 11:26

are great, you know, when you have an abundance of money. So when did you guys realize you were rich or poor? When you were young? I don't want to make any assumptions. I don't want to make any assumptions in the room.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 11:39

I am not rich at all.

Carmen Lezeth 11:43

I am not rich at all no, cynthia, you're not rich, but you are comfortable. She's what comfortable. I'm going to say I don't know if it's comfortable, because you could be much more comfortable, but Cynthia doesn't spend money Like I will spend $1,000 on a pair of shoes and be okay with it, right, cynthia can want those same pair of shoes. It ain't going to happen for no dollars.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 12:21

I will buy the knockoffs Okay.

Carmen Lezeth 12:24

And I would never. I would rather not have the shoes and go without than buy the knockoffs. Yeah, that's where we're different, that's where we're different, right? I remember we had a conversation about sorry about bras.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 12:35

Do you remember the conversation we had?

Carmen Lezeth 12:37

about bras. Okay, wait, no, this is a great Rick. We are mature adults here.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 12:42

I actually bought a couple of the ones that you suggested.

Carmen Lezeth 12:48

Okay, let me just tell people first. Here's the thing. So I am not cheap when it comes to two types of clothing. Shoes, really important to me, protect my feet, blah, blah, blah. I don't care, okay, whether it's sneakers, it don't matter, I'm not going to go cheap on those. And bras the girls will always be taken care of and I spend a lot of money on my bras and I also wash them by hand, like.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 13:12

Cynthia's like.

Carmen Lezeth 13:13

I don't want to be bothered I throw mine in the washing machine. Right. We had a conversation about bras and she was like, oh hell, no, I'm not spending that kind of money on bras. But you did. You bought the bras. I told you to try them.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 13:24

Yeah, I do like them and you're feeling I do like them. They are comfortable.

Carmen Lezeth 13:31

But do you see, the support is very different.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 13:33

Oh yeah.

Carmen Lezeth 13:33

Yeah, okay, okay. So I'm just saying sometimes there are things you get what you pay for, absolutely yeah. Yeah, I think shoes for me is more about um, yeah, I mean, there are some shoes you don't have to spend that kind of money on, but running sneakers you have to. You're going to be running, spend money on. You know, I can't really talk about my Jimmy shoes or my poochies or other shoes, um, but I will say, when you buy a pair of heels that are really well made, you can actually walk in them, right, but are you walking around in stilettos every day? Even in the days when I was wearing them all the time, I wasn't you know what I mean.

Carmen Lezeth 14:16

So but I. But here's where Cynthia and I are the same. I'm not going to go spend money I don't have, like, I'm not going to be like you know what. I'll figure out the rent later On. That we are exactly the same, you know. But, rick, what about you?

Rick Costa 14:32

What about you? What's the question? Again, sorry.

Carmen Lezeth 14:36

When did you realize that you were poor or rich? Don't want to make any assumptions. Maybe your family was very wealthy when you were little. You lost it all in some crazy, you know, market crash or something. When did you know as a kid, do you remember?

Rick Costa 14:51

I mean, I think we always felt middle class always. The only time I felt like you know, oh, maybe we're a little OK was because we lived in a three-family house and we had tenants. I was like, I don't know, we got tenants, that's the money coming in. I was like I never felt like we were rich still middle class, but yeah, never felt neither rich nor poor, just always right.

Carmen Lezeth 15:15

You know, it's so funny. I used to think that you being a landlord, he'd be rich in our neighborhood, right, right. Right, cynthia, we'd be like he rich, like if you had a car, I thought you were rich.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 15:25

Oh, mm-hmm.

Carmen Lezeth 15:27

Yep, like remember I think it was not, I think it was the Martins they had a pool, they were rich, rich, anybody who had a pool was rich.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 15:35

rich. If you had a pool, it wasn't even like an indoor pool, it wasn't above ground or in ground ground.

Carmen Lezeth 15:40

you were rich, it doesn't matter rich it was beautiful, but it was just funny.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 15:46

It could have been a ball pool and you still rich. It doesn't matter rich because?

Carmen Lezeth 15:53

because, if people were like, if you want to come to the house to have, you know, come, we're having a pool party. Be like a pool party like in the city, what right? Like so cool yeah, would be like. So cool, yeah, Like.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 16:06

I never felt like we were poor. I mean like my mom always made sure we had what we needed. You know what I mean, like we never went without. So I think probably like middle class. Like Rick said Never poor, never rich.

Wealth Memories and Growing Up

Carmen Lezeth 16:21

We just had fun. Yeah, I was poor, so we good, I mean, I had what I needed, but I didn't have what I wanted. And I think there's a difference. And I think the definition for me of poor is also like and I say this respectfully, but you know we would go and get like. You know I remember we'd wait in line and get cheese and like milk products or whatever. Yeah, we didn't have food stamps, but we had the free stuff that you would go to the school and I would get free milk in school.

Carmen Lezeth 16:54

So the reason why I know is because in my neighborhood and again, you're, I don't want to say, much younger than me, but different generations, different generations I think it's one of the reasons why my mom passed away so young actually I don't have any evidence for this, but because she wouldn't ask for help. You know the pride, bullshittery, you know that whole, you know. I think that's why she didn't get the help she needed. She didn't get the medical help she needed, but like, there was some weird pride about not getting food stamps in the neighborhood because people would sell food stamps, right. So there's, I don't know if people understand what that means, but like, if you have food stamps. You can only buy certain kinds of food on them. They have to be certain foods, like milk or whatever, but you can't buy I don't know candy, or you can't buy diapers, or you can't buy other things, at least back then. I don't know what happens now. I don't know what happens now. I don't know what happens now, but back then you couldn't.

Rick Costa 17:48

So funny because I literally just saw a video yesterday of these people that were. I think it's called Snap. I guess right.

Carmen Lezeth 17:54

I think it's called Snap Benefits now.

Rick Costa 17:57

And these people were bragging. They were like at a Costco type place, you know those big warehouse stores, filling up the cart and then at the end they're like see, see how much I saved. It was like $600. Like she didn't pay it because it's all on a snap card. I'm like but why would you brag about that? It's kind of weird to me.

Carmen Lezeth 18:16

Well, I mean, I think this is an interesting part of this conversation. I don't know if it's so much. I mean, I don't know the video you're talking about and I understand the sentiment, but let me just finish one part about selling food stamps and then remind me if I forget. So what people would do is they would sell their food stamps so they could get cash right, and then they would turn around and be able to buy the things that they wanted to buy. You know what I mean. So there would be this weird exchange that would happen buy the things that they wanted to buy.

Rick Costa 18:46

So they you know what I mean. So there'd be this weird exchange that would happen. That's what made me remember that, because they were saying that they'll sell. They'll say let me, I'll give you $200 for $300 of your food stamps, because they can't use that money for liquor or something that they want, so they would do it because that's the only way they could get it Right.

Carmen Lezeth 19:08

That's the only way they could get it. That's the only way we remember that at the first point. So here's the thing that we need to remember. And again, I don't know the video you're talking about, but there is this weird stigma about people who need help and get help, because all we hear about are the people who turn around and maybe abuse it or do things like this. Okay, but the fact of the matter is, like everything else on the planet, there are other people like my mother, who I I don't have evidence of this, but because of that behavior or people have a perception did not get the healthcare, the help she needed in order to survive. So a 12 year old kid and other children were left. You know, you see what I'm saying? Like there's a price to pay, and this was a woman who worked every single day of her life and worked hard work and, before I hear anything in the comments or emails, she was a fucking citizen. She was and it doesn't matter, don't come to me Ice Ridiculous people, anyways.

Carmen Lezeth 20:09

But this is actually an important conversation because I want to do something. I want us to start thinking about money very, very differently. I don't mean, I mean all of us when people are on any kind of benefits or asking for help. If you are a good and decent person, you should help people. You should help people and not then turn around and say to them, but you can only spend it on this, this and this.

Carmen Lezeth 20:37

When you do that, you create the environment for people to live in lack. If you say to me, rick, can you help me with $500? And I say yes, but you can only use it to buy these things, how does that make you feel Like you're going to be like why did I freaking ask to begin with? I feel I already felt humiliated to ask at first, and now you're telling me I can only do so much with it. And I need diapers for my kid, I need cream for my body, I need I'd like to have a cup of coffee in the morning, but I can't.

Carmen Lezeth 21:14

But you see what I mean. We restrict people and people need that stuff anyway. So now what are they going to do? When you are desperate, when you need something, when you are living in a situation of lack, you're going to find a way to get that stuff. Hmm, and I think we need to stop, in this country especially, but all over the world, this idea that money, not one of those people, are better than any of the poorest people I have ever known, associated with, worked with, been around, grew up with at all.

Rick Costa 22:07

Or happier not happier.

Carmen Lezeth 22:15

But yeah, you know, it's just factual to me that we need to stop putting that stigma on people about being poor. When were you deeply anxious about money? Right now, I am anxious right now.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 22:33

So the first time was when we were planning our wedding. Really, because at that time I had so much debt and we were planning our wedding, so I was. My anxiety was like through the roof, to the point like I'd be sitting on my bed crying like, freaking out and Walt's like calm down, like we'll figure it out, like don't worry the point. Like I would be sitting on my bed crying like freaking out and was like calm down, like we'll figure it out, like don't worry, um, we're doing peace, forget this crap, right? Um. So yeah, I mean that that was the first time and I think you know, any time we're thinking about buying a house because we do want to buy a house that too is also like can bring up some time anxiety. Anxiety because it's like the market's not great, or you know we don't make enough, or you know there's always, there's always something you still want to buy a house?

Carmen Lezeth 23:30

I do, yeah I. I've owned property. I never want to own it again. I, at least not alone, I don't. And I yeah that's a whole other, I guess private lounge. I never will buy a piece of property by myself, ever again, unless I have like a like I do win the lottery, like unless because it's just too much work would you would you?

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 23:54

purchase another property at that same amount, or would it be less? Is that what that is?

Carmen Lezeth 24:01

Oh no, no, no, no. Well, see, you weren't at my condo so you don't know. I had two floods. So I lived there for four years and I had two floods because somebody's thing broke above me or whatever. Their water heater broke above me and it flooded the entire place. And then I had another flood because it came, we had a rainstorm and it came through whatever, and and it was fine because you know, I had the money to deal with it, and but you have to have all these workers and all these people and somebody has to call them and manage them. And I was just like, oh my God, and here's the thing I was going to buy. This is the irony of irony.

Carmen Lezeth 24:38

So I used to work for this woman who was old oil money. We became friends. I've talked about her in the past, but we, you know, after I had worked at this company, we would go out, sometimes for lunch, and sometimes she would invite me to some of these events and I would go to these kind of private home, um art collection places and I wanted to buy this $10,000 painting that at the time I couldn't afford it, but I was like, oh my God, I want it for over the mantle. It'll bring the whole thing together, cause I had really no furniture. So it really was kind of this, really kind of beautiful piece. And, long story short, she was like you are not buying that piece. She was like you're not and I was like, but why? She's like you need to live in a place for a year before you buy or redecorate at all. No, she was adamant. I was like no, no, but I know, I know this. She's like absolutely not.

Rick Costa 25:29

I was like you ain't my mother, I need a foot of feng shui.

Carmen Lezeth 25:32

I was like you ain't my mother. She was funny, but I was like, okay, I was just like, okay, well, it's not like I have 10,000, like no big deal, but you know what I mean? It's not like her kind of money. To me it would have been a really big investment. The flood came down through that wall and it would have destroyed the entire thing, and I remember thinking like you know what, Thank you, thank you, thank you, Thank you, thank you. Yeah, I'll never forget that.

Billionaires and Social Responsibility

Carmen Lezeth 26:03

Yeah, so I, yeah, I have no interest, but I live where I live. So the answer is I'd probably get a. It depends. I mean, I'm going to do it with somebody. So if they're like a very rich surgeon or something, you know, sky's the limit. Boo, no, I would. Yeah, for me, I just need like, I would like a two bedroom and I want to be. I'm two blocks from the beach, but I want to be like facing the beach. I'm not facing the beach right now and I'd like to like wake up in the morning, go out on my balcony or veranda, whatever the hell it's called, and have a cup of coffee. I'd like that. That would be a dream come true. And as much as I'm kidding around about a man. I really don't want the man in my house, I just want his money and his ability to fix things.

Rick Costa 26:54

Maybe a nice plastic surgeon.

Carmen Lezeth 26:59

Maybe a nice plastic surgeon Meet a nice old plastic surgeon.

Rick Costa 27:05

It's like dying or something.

Carmen Lezeth 27:08

Why are you making fun of this? I would never get plastic surgery.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 27:14

Botox. Can you see it? Can you see it? No, no, I was joking I'm self-conscious.

Rick Costa 27:17

Can you see it? Can you see it? No?

Carmen Lezeth 27:19

no, I was joking. Now I'm self-conscious, can you see it?

Rick Costa 27:21

No no.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 27:22

You're self-conscious. Hello, I'm peeling.

Carmen Lezeth 27:26

But, rick, what else were we talking about? It's all your fault. We got off topic.

Rick Costa 27:31

We got derailed.

Carmen Lezeth 27:32

Yeah, talk about my hot surgeon.

Rick Costa 27:36

People that you know need help, and how your mom was maybe too proud.

Carmen Lezeth 27:43

Yeah, but we were talking about when did you realize you were poor or rich? You always knew that you were middle class. What was the time you were anxious about money and I said, right now, Me too. Now, right now.

Rick Costa 27:56

Some people take the paycheck. I'm living credit card to credit card.

Carmen Lezeth 28:00

I know, cynthia, you're Cynthia's like he, he, he, he, he. That's when you know the rich people are in the room. It's just good.

Rick Costa 28:09

She's like I put everything in my savings account. What's the savings account?

Carmen Lezeth 28:13

Okay, okay, seriously. Do you have a good memory of money, a time when money I wrote about it in my book when my mother bought me my boots? I think that will always be something that I associate with, uh, a moment where I knew we didn't have it I was too young, I didn't really understand, but I knew she didn't have it. But that money got me a really cool present. Yeah and yeah, and there was love in that, you know.

Carmen Lezeth 28:40

Yeah oh, you should already know mine um, I should know yours, when my mom took us to.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 28:49

Disney, my first trip.

Carmen Lezeth 28:57

Really Okay, that's cool, but you knew at that time that you guys were. No, that was a big deal.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 29:05

It was a big deal. Yeah, so she used to have this sock in my drawer, in my dresser. No one else knew about it, just me. And every so often she would put money in there and she would tell me don't tell anybody, she would just wrap it up. Never knew how much, just me. And every so often she would put money in there and she would tell me don't tell anybody, she would just wrap it up. Never knew how much was in there. And then one day she's like we're going to Disney and she grabbed that money and that's what she paid for Disney. But was it just you and her? It was me, her, audrey and Sean the four of us.

Carmen Lezeth 29:36

Not your other sister. No, that's funny, rick. Do you have one? Do you have a moment where you remember a good feeling, that money made you happy?

Rick Costa 29:51

Mine's going to be like a little bit of a reverse, because when I went to I was in second grade and we went to portugal and talk about culture shock because this was not the mainland, this was the azores islands and they were still way behind technology technologically. So I was like that made me feel like I was rich. Looking at how these people lived, I'm like no cars.

Carmen Lezeth 30:20

Oh, okay.

Rick Costa 30:22

Horses everywhere and they had some people had TVs, but it was like one and a half channels. What's one and a half channels? One channel is 24-7. The other channel is half a day and that's it. And I'm like I have a little brain going. This is barbaric. That made me feel like I was rich. These people that's actually really interesting yeah, but I love them as my family. So, yeah, we still had fun.

Carmen Lezeth 31:02

What does it mean to each of you to have an emotional attachment to money? I don't think. I really do.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 31:11

No one thinks they do, by the way, but everyone does.

Carmen Lezeth 31:12

Everyone does. I'll tell you why. I mean, I think it's an interesting thing and I actually give Teresa credit for this, because when I first moved to Los Angeles I was by myself, I didn't know anybody. I think I've mentioned this before. I did light housekeeping for free room and board for a gentleman, an older gentleman, his name was Mr Nasha, may he rest in peace but he was offering that for students in the area or whatever, and I wasn't a student, but he allowed me to stay there.

Carmen Lezeth 31:42

And I remember one night all I had in the room, in the little like there's an extra room off, like the patio or whatever, and it was a mattress that I bought for myself.

Carmen Lezeth 31:53

I had a TV that I bought, a small TV that I bought for myself because priorities, well no, but I mean I did.

Carmen Lezeth 32:03

I bought a TV and then, you know, I had my clothes or whatever, and I remember sitting there and I had been, I had been cleaning the bathroom and the kitchen or whatever, and I went into my room and I was crying because I realized I had a bachelor's degree and I was still doing the same job my mother was doing and I got really upset and I was crying and I was having one of those, like you know, when you cry and you can't breathe, you're like you know what I mean and I talked to.

Carmen Lezeth 32:28

I talked to Teresa the next day because I was so upset about it or maybe it was that night. I called her and we had this whole conversation and she said and I give her credit for this she said you cannot have an emotional attachment to money. Money is not who you are, it will. It doesn't matter if you have it or you don't have it, it will never define you, never. And I was like, okay, but I'm still a housekeeper, but that's stuck in me because, unfortunately, I'm sorry she still lives by that thing.

Carmen Lezeth 33:04

Oh no, of course. I mean that's her whole ethos. I mean, I think that's the thing. Is that money in a lot of different ways the way we dress, the way we, where we eat, what we buy, what we do does define us. So it's hard for it not to become part of our emotional ethos. But you have to fight against it. You really have to push that aside because, I'm telling you, you become a much more settled human being when money doesn't dictate your emotional happiness and joy. That's why me not having work isn't bothering me so much, because I know I'll be okay and I always kid around and say I've been homeless before, I'll be homeless again. I'm fine with it. Like it bothers other people when I say that, but I'm like I ain't worried about it. Plus, I know way too many people whose couches I can sleep on. Hello, my friends. But worst case scenario I mean if you have people, you have real love, you have real connections in your life, that's wealth.

Rick Costa 34:07

Yeah, a hundred percent Agree, I know.

Carmen Lezeth 34:12

How do you guys feel about billionaires Any billionaire? Do you want to about billionaires? Any billionaire. Do you want to be a billionaire?

Rick Costa 34:19

No, Unless I can constantly give it away.

Carmen Lezeth 34:27

How do you feel about billionaires? Should there be billionaires?

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 34:30

Yes, I mean, if they make it and they earned it, I mean, hey, did they make it, did they earn it? Some do, some don't, most of them don't, but I mean I don't really know one to even know how I feel about them.

Carmen Lezeth 34:49

I think I've said this before. I think money doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't make you a good person. It just gives you more choices, but it doesn't make you a wonderful human being and it doesn't make you able to function better in society. Okay, money don't buy class either, and I ain't going to diss no one here, but I think we all know what I'm talking about. It does not buy you class. I know people who ain't got nothing and have more class than people who have tons of money. So I honestly don't think.

Carmen Lezeth 35:29

Here's what I'll say. I don't care if there are billionaires and people have tons of money. Oprah's a billionaire, mark Cuban's a billionaire, warren Buffett's a billionaire are billionaires and people have tons of money. Oprah's a billionaire, mark Cuban's a billionaire, warren Buffett's a billionaire. These are people who have tons of money. That I don't hate. Like you, do you. You earned your money, do your thing. But there should not be in this world not even just this country in this world people who have no food or a home. People who have no food or a home. I don't know how I could exist on the planet knowing that I have so much money and so many people have nothing. And I'm not saying it's like Oprah's job to fix the homeless problem, but I'm just saying when you think about it that way, it feels cruel, it feels weird to me.

Rick Costa 36:23

Yeah, walking right by people that are suffering horribly and you could do something.

Carmen Lezeth 36:27

Yeah, I think of Star Trek, next generation. Right, we always talk about that. Cynthia, I'm sorry, you can just stand. You know, just go over there for a minute. Me and Rick will have this conversation, but in that world it isn't about money. There's no money happening back and forth. Now there is still a power structure, there is still the dynamics that happen, but this idea that I have to pay something to do this or whatever, it's a very different system. So I want people to be as abundant as they want to be, or earn or whatever it is, or their family gives them, or like. I can't be mad at people who are born into wealth. I wish I was. I wish I had been born. I'd like to see that. I'd like to see that storyline. Try one time Exactly.

Rick Costa 37:13

I'd like to do that storyline please.

Carmen Lezeth 37:16

You need to try one time Exactly. I'd like to do the other kind of struggling. I would like to be a rich person who struggles to try to find happiness. I would like to do that. Can we do that? We can still have all about the joy, but I think what breaks my heart is the idea that there are so many people in the one percent and so many people that have nothing or struggle so hard to have just a little bit, and to me that feels off as far as being a good species yeah, well, I agree, yeah, there was a.

Rick Costa 37:54

I think there was a. I think it was next generation, because voyager did something species. Yeah, I agree, I think it was Next Generation because Voyager did something similar too. I remember Captain Picard specifically talked to somebody.

Carmen Lezeth 38:05

I can never say Star Trek, because then the boy has to talk about an episode. Go ahead, babe, do your thing.

Money Systems and Who Gets Help

Rick Costa 38:10

Picard was talking to somebody, I believe, from the past, and the guy was like what do you mean? You don't have money, what do you mean? You don't buy things. And he's like, oh, that's all past, we don't do that Now. We just try to find our calling and do something that's going to benefit us in humanity.

Carmen Lezeth 38:27

It's never going to happen in my lifetime.

Rick Costa 38:29

How he was just dumbfounded.

Carmen Lezeth 38:31

Well, because, and that's never going to happen in our lifetime. But imagine, I mean, what would it feel like, right? What would it feel like to not have to work for money, but instead work for your passion?

Rick Costa 38:43

yeah, if everybody got to do that I mean imagine.

Carmen Lezeth 38:50

That life the world would be transformed, and here's the thing, pete, you know I love gary v, but gary v will be transformed. And here's the thing, Pete, you know I love Gary Vee, but Gary Vee will be like you have to take the risk, you have to. I'm like bitch, I have to pay rent. You know what I mean? That's what I have to do. Okay, I need to eat at least once a day. I just and you know, I love him, I think he's great. But this idea that because you don't do that, you don't risk being homeless, to try to. And here's the thing the other day I saw him on um, on some Tik TOK or whatever, and I didn't realize this, but he's won the lottery twice.

Rick Costa 39:31

Really, I've never knew that oh wow, I didn't know that either.

Carmen Lezeth 39:35

And all of a sudden I was like and now I'm done with you, give me a hundred grand. And I think what he won wasn't like millions although it's never been disclosed because you know, I tried to Google it but he admitted to winning one when he was younger and it was like $3,000. But can you imagine being young and winning? That's like winning $100,000. But he hasn't disclosed what the other amount is. And I'm like see, this is what I'm talking about and I'm not saying everybody who's successful has gotten money or whatever. But you do not become successful by yourself. If you have nothing, you do not make it on your own. I don't care who you are. I don't care who you are because without your fans, without people who want to listen to you or watch you or whatever it is, if people aren't interested in what you're doing, if somebody doesn't have your back when you fail so that you can get up, brush off and maybe start over, it's really not that easy.

Rick Costa 40:39

Yeah, I mean, even if you're making the most amazing product in the world, who's going to buy it? Somebody's got to buy it.

Carmen Lezeth 40:46

Somebody's got to buy it. Yeah, and I'm not trying to diss other people, but it's like when I heard that it totally and I love Gary Vee, I think he's really good at what he does, and I love Gary Vee, I think he's really good at what he does but I was like all of a sudden like, oh my God, of course, of course, you did Not to mention that he has a good family support. So already I was like, all right, I already feel less than because I have never had that major family support. You know, because his father is a winemaker, right, you know, and like that's how he started selling wine.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 41:18

So it's not like he was. He wasn't poor and he wasn't middle-class.

Carmen Lezeth 41:20

He had a little bit of money, a little bit. You know what I mean. But I was still like don't matter, you can't take away from his brilliance because he didn't make his money from the wine business. I was like, okay, but now you tell it, Now you trip and telling me, you won the lottery. Come on now, I'm out, I'm out. I love you, but I'm out, I'm so mean.

Carmen Lezeth 41:48

Jarvis, how much did he make? No, I already looked it up. It hasn't been disclosed. In some states you don't have to disclose it. And look, I'm not trying to understand fully and completely is I have done everything I was supposed to do. I haven't missed anything. You know how, like people always saying, oh well, the reason why you haven't made it yet, or you is because you didn't, maybe didn't try enough, or you didn't pray enough, or you didn't trust in the Lord enough, I'm like I've done it all, I've done it all. Maybe you didn't network enough, maybe I'm like, no, I've done it all.

Carmen Lezeth 42:24

And I think the day it turned for me this was a couple of years ago, though, the day I started realizing I fixed one of my clients credit, that credit report, because I was able to call at the time. Right, I was being paid to take the time to fix his credit report. It took a long time but also when he needed to pay some stuff. So he had a really poor credit rating, like you know, five something, maybe close to 600, but yeah, and this is somebody who has millions of dollars, but no one was paying attention. No one was paying attention. Okay, so I called, called, was able to make deals whatever, and it took me like I don't know like two or three days, and because he has money, I was able to pay it off whatever, and you're also able to get those things scrubbed off so much quicker, especially if you have a lawyer helping you as well. So, like within a month or two, his credit rating went from being poor to being like 850. I'm like that's all about money.

Carmen Lezeth 43:20

And then the rest of us are all like what's my FICO score? Can I get a loan? So we were doing all this to get him a loan, so I helped with the application, whatever, and he was able to get like a million dollar loan. I'm like, wait, I've always had a steady, good 700, maybe dip to like 690 or so, and now I'm weighing, like you know, almost 800. And still I will apply for a mother effing loan and get denied. And I'm like can I get $50,000? And they're like, sorry, um, here are all the factors. I'm like, just say I'm Paul and I'm black and I'm a woman. Just say it.

Carmen Lezeth 44:12

But that's when I started to understand there's a whole racket. It's a whole racket. If you're poor, you're less likely to get a break, and that don't matter what color skin you are. I think this has kind of been a kind of fun conversation, which is kind of what I wanted to talk about money or whatever. But let me ask you just one last question. Well, two questions. Do you guys loan people money? Cynthia loaned me money before. It was like $10,000. Right, it was not that much oh wait, I'm laughing right.

Carmen Lezeth 44:44

Every time I tell the story, it's like she let me like $100,000. I forget how much it was at the time, though it felt like $10,000. It felt like $10,000. I was so sad and desperate. Every time I tell the story, it's more money.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 45:05

She was in front of me, right, because she's like can I just borrow $1,000? I was like is that all you need? Like, do you need more? And she's like what I was like do you have? I was like, how much was like, do you have I was?

Loaning Money and Emotional Attachments

Carmen Lezeth 45:16

like how much motherfucking money do you have? But here's a difference though. In all fairness, I paid you right away. I paid you back. I did it in lump sums, but I paid you back right. But that's different. If people ask me to loan them money, it's hard. I really I've done it. Rick knows I've done it a couple of times and now I'm not doing it to other people. Don't ask me for money. Let me just look right into the camera. Do not ask. I don't have any money. I know you think I do. I don't have no money. Okay, I don't loan money to people.

Rick Costa 45:50

Can I ask?

Carmen Lezeth 45:51

Yeah.

Rick Costa 45:51

Don't only show up for me when you need that money oh very good. Don't only show up for me when you need the money. Where are you when you don't need the money?

Carmen Lezeth 46:04

Oh, oh, drop that. Oh, drop the mic. Oh yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing, right. It's kind of like I believe that if people need money, I'll offer it and I'll give it to them or whatever. If I have it, I'll give it. But loaning money is a touchy one because you're never going to get it back. It's rare if people get it back. I don't know about Cynthia, but I have. I have the reason why I learned this lesson, cause in the past people would ask me for money, especially when I was working at the company I was working at and making my buku money or whatever, and people turned around and you know, oh, I'm going to pay you back. And then they wouldn't. And I was like I didn't need the money back then. But don't tell me you're going to pay me back when you're not going to, when you don't have it. You can't make that promise. You don't know what's going to happen. So if I'm going to give people money, I just give it. I don't do loans.

Rick Costa 46:56

Yeah, I don't know how you can walk around knowing you owe somebody money and just be okay with it, Because I remember my cousin let me borrow money and it took me years to pay her back.

Carmen Lezeth 47:12

And I'm like but every time I saw her I'm like I felt bad just being in her presence, knowing I owe her money. Okay, but that is an emotional attachment to money, because I'm sure she wasn't making you feel that way.

Redefining Personal Worth Beyond Money

Carmen Lezeth 47:19

No, but I felt bad I did the same thing to Cynthia hey, cynthia, how you doing? I'm working, I'm going to pay you back. She'd be like what are you talking about? She wouldn't even know what I was talking about. That's our emotional attachment to money, because we think we're being defined by not paying somebody back or by having borrowed it or by having some loan out. You know what I mean. It's an interesting thing, right? Okay, so let's just talk about the last part. If money didn't define your worth, what would I know? Money doesn't define your worth, but it does in a societal sense. So what do you think would be a better way? My beauty, I'm going to say my conviction, oh, your kindness, okay, kindness, cynthia's, very kind, rick, what did you say?

Rick Costa 48:29

I was going to say do you make and it doesn't have to be big, but do you make the world a better place? Even if it's a small thing, even if you can help a small amount of people, it's better than doing nothing. You know, there was some kind of quote where somebody said I can't, I can't give it, I need the whole ocean to help people. And they said, yeah, but can you go and get a cup and help that one person that needs it? That's right.

Carmen Lezeth 48:56

I think for me it's conviction. I want to be who I am, no matter what, no matter the situation all the time, every day, no matter what's happening to me financially. I'm going to try anyways. We'll see. I don't always hold up very well, but we'll see what happens in the next month or so.

Rick Costa 49:14

Let's see how good I feel that.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 49:19

All about the joy and black Listen.

Rick Costa 49:28

We're changing the name to all about the sponsorships.

Carmen Lezeth 49:32

Have you people not joined my sub stack and give me some money? All right, have you people not joined my sub stack and give me some money? There's a coffee link in aatjoycom. Buy me a coffee, I'll be all like. You can't even watch it. So people are going to be like Carmen is through. Yeah Well, thank you so much for having this conversation. I think it was kind of light and fun and a different take and not you know what we always do, like let's talk fun and a different take and not you know what we always do, like let's talk about budgets, let's talk about you know? It's just kind of like how do we feel about money and who can we be? Who are we? Where'd we come from with all this money stuff? And I hope it helps other people to start talking about money in their own lives too, or even just reconsidering it. Not having an emotional attachment to money, not defining yourself by money and just feeling good about who you are, no matter the circumstance. I think that's the goal.

Rick Costa 50:22

So you don't have to deal with it. I don't care if you Democrat, republican, if you're white or black. You still got to deal with it.

Cynthia Ruiz Lopez 50:28

Nope.

Carmen Lezeth 50:29

Wish we didn't. Just billionaires would help other people. But you know whatever that Just billionaires would help other people. But you know whatever, that's just me. But anyways, everyone, thank you so much for hanging out. And remember we are always on on Friday nights at our Friday night lives and anyone can join and hang out. And that's Friday night, 6 pm Pacific, 9 pm Eastern. And we'll see you again next week. Thanks again, bye everyone, and remember, at the end of the day it really is all about the joy. Bye, bye, thanks for stopping by. All About the Joy. Be better and stay beautiful folks, have a sweet day.