Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Planned Giving Primer for Small Nonprofits with Tony Martignetti

February 01, 2023 Julia Campbell Episode 73
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Planned Giving Primer for Small Nonprofits with Tony Martignetti
Show Notes Transcript

Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits, like First Tee of Greater Akron, a nonprofit that empowers kids and teens through the game of golf. After just one year with Bloomerang they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship, and raised more funds. To listen to the full interview with First Tee of Greater Akron visit bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation .

Does your nonprofit have a planned giving program? Are you interested in learning more but don't know where to start? Planned giving can be a great way for your nonprofit to weather the storm of recessions and uncertain economic periods.

My guest this week is Tony Martignetti, host of the Planned Giving Accelerator and the award-winning must listen to nonprofit podcast, Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio.

In this episode, we discuss the common obstacles that keep small shops from starting a planned giving program, and simple ways to start a plan and strategy for your nonprofit.

Connect with Tony:

About Julia Campbell, the host of the Nonprofit Nation podcast:

Named as a top thought leader by Forbes and BizTech Magazine, Julia Campbell (she/hers) is an author, coach, and speaker on a mission to make the digital world a better place.

She wrote her book, Storytelling in the Digital Age: A Guide for Nonprofits, as a roadmap for social change agents who want to build movements using engaging digital storytelling techniques. Her second book, How to Build and Mobilize a Social Media Community for Your Nonprofit, was published in 2020 as a call-to-arms for mission-driven organizations to use the power of social media to build movements.

Julia’s online courses, webinars, and keynote talks have helped hundreds of nonprofits make the shift to digital thinking and how to do effective marketing in the digital age.

Take Julia’s free nonprofit masterclass,  3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media That Converts

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Julia Campbell  0:00   

Hi everyone. Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits. Like First Tee of Greater Akron, a nonprofit that empowers kids and teens through the game of golf. And after just one year with Bloomerang, they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship and raised more funds. Now to listen to the full interview with First Tee of Greater Akron, visit bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation. bloomerang.com/nonprofit-nation. Or click the link in the show notes. Thanks. And let's get to the show. Hello, and welcome to nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently Find Your Voice. Definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie, or an experienced professional, who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. 

  

Hi, everyone, welcome to nonprofit nation or welcome back. I'm so excited that you are here listening today, wherever you are in your car, folding laundry, on a walk, whatever you're doing today, I'm just thrilled to be with you. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. And today we have a long time podcast host and a nonprofit guru. And actually, I've known this person for many, many years we've worked together, it's Tony Martignetti. And you might know Tony as the host of Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio, which he's hosted for 12 years. He's also the host of the Plan Giving Accelerator and two little facts that I want to share, because he's going to do his own bio. And really his own intro is that in the air force in the 80s, he held the keys to nuclear missiles, which I definitely want to hear more about. And also you can catch him doing stand up comedy in New York City. When was the last time you did stand up? That's been a few years. Is that a few years? Okay, so you gotta get back to wills. But COVID It was me forever. As with you forever. All right, Tony. Most of my listeners are going to know who you are. But why don't you give a little introduction and talk about your journey into working with nonprofits. 

  

Tony Martignetti  2:57   

Thanks very much for having me, Julia. It's a real pleasure. Hello, nonprofit nation. Good to be with you. I started planning to giving fundraising because I hated practicing law. I'm glad I went to law school glad I have a law degree, you know, and I encourage other folks to go to law school. Absolutely. But for me, practicing law just was an unpleasant way to make a lot of money. So after two very either very long, or I guess now looking back, they were short years, but at the time, they were very long. I reengineered. Myself as planned to giving fundraiser. And I started that at Iona College in New Rochelle, New York, as Director of Planned Giving, raise money there, inaugurated that program and then moved to St. John's University in Queens, New York, where I also launched the Planned Giving Program, raise more money there because I was there for six years. And then started consulting in 2003. 

  

Julia Campbell  3:57   

So tell me about your consulting. How do you help nonprofits? 

  

Tony Martignetti  4:02   

I don't really. I detract more value than I add when you 

  

Julia Campbell  4:08   

I don't think I've ever had a guest say that. So if please explain. 

  

Tony Martignetti  4:13   

When you factor in my fee and the time you spend with me. It's a net negative. It's a net negative and I feel bad about it. But it's my 26th year last year was my 25th year in adding net negative to bottom lines for nonprofits. But no, no I love working with organizations to launch and grow their plan to giving usually small and mid sized shops that's that's who joins the planned giving accelerator. The online course that you mentioned. I like launching plan giving it I want to democratize plan to giving. It's not only for big nonprofits. Let's debunk that myth. It's not only for hospitals and colleges, please, please get that out of your mind. small and mid sized shops can be wildly popular, wildly sick cessful with plan to giving and democratizing it's not only for wealthy donors, folks a very average modest means who make small gifts. And that doesn't mean that they're small people, I just I call them small gifts, if you want to call them modest gifts, that's okay. I'm not commenting on their character, when I say that they make small gifts, they, they just make small gifts, those folks can be enormously valuable plan giving prospects. So I want to see more nonprofits doing plan to giving with more folks who are not wealthy. 

  

Julia Campbell  5:33   

Exactly, I always think about how this is just a real untapped resource in the nonprofit sector. And I think about how many months I've given to certain nonprofits, I'm a monthly donor. So I do give some annual gifts, but I prefer to give monthly, I do everything monthly, you know, Netflix, and you know, Birchbox, and like whatever else, I subscribe to Hulu, I like to do things on a subscription basis. So that's how I do my giving and organize my giving. But I you know, I'm not like, you know, I'm in my 40s. But I don't think it's ever too early to start talking about it. But that's getting ahead of ourselves. So the term planned giving, we've been throwing it around a little bit. For those that are uninitiated what is planned giving? Because I do remember actually, when I started as director of development, I didn't know what the word was there was no plan giving program at my organization. I had no there was no actually Google, that's I'm showing my age when I started as a director of development. But what is it and you know, what are some other terms that people might use to describe it? 

  

Tony Martignetti  6:40   

Planned Giving is long term giving to nonprofits. The simplest example. And the most popular type of plant gift is a gift in somebody's will. So that's long term, because it's not going to be a gift of cash to the nonprofit until the donor has died. And that's typical of most types of planned gifts. You know, there are lots of varieties of planned gifts that can be quite valuable, but I don't focus on them. Because when we're talking about launching plan to giving, we're talking about basics plan, giving one on one, inaugurating it at your nonprofit, you start with what I just mentioned, the simple gifting somebody's will. That's the kind of gift I focus on. It's the most popular planned gift by far. So that's playing giving its long term fundraising for nonprofits, other phrases that I don't really use legacy giving, you know, deferred giving, and when we're talking to donors, I don't even like folks to use the phrase plan to giving 

  

Julia Campbell  7:42   

They won't know what that means, right? 

  

Tony Martignetti  7:44   

Yeah, that's that's insider ball. That's jargon for fundraisers. It's so it's fine for for the nonprofit nation, listeners, of course. But just when you're talking to your donors, would you consider a gift in your will? You know, Julia, because everybody knows what a will is. Everybody knows they need one. And everybody knows how wills work. So you don't have to train your staff up. And you don't have to spend precious marketing time and resources, educating your donors about charitable remainder unit trust with net income makeup provisions. It's like barf, I'm not what is that? Um, I don't even know what I'm talking about. So I mean, I do know, but you don't have to. It's not you don't need that. So wills simple, you know, would you consider a gift in your will? 

  

Julia Campbell  8:30   

So how does it differ from other types of fundraising? Like, what are some things that we need to think about 

  

Tony Martignetti  8:35   

Long term first, so you know, recognize it's not going to fund your five year capital plan? It's not going to pay next month's salary budget, you know, this is, Lauren, we're saying long term, we typically start talking to folks, roughly 55 to 60. And over, and you had said earlier, you know, you'd said that could go younger, and you can but when we're getting started, I like to work with the most likely prospects, and those are typically folks 55 to 60 and over, and if a 16 year old puts you in their will, what are we talking they're gonna live till 8590. So they're gonna live another 2530 years, maybe longer. So that's just, you know, just driving home the point of long term, you need to be thinking long term, your board needs to be thinking long term, but it's about the sustainability of your work. You know, as you're focusing on the short term and the midterm, I hope you can devote some time doesn't have to be a lot, but devote some time to your long term, to your nonprofits sustainability, to your endowment. Even if you have zero endowment today, you have to start somewhere, you can begin growing that endowment with planned gifts because look, every 60 year old isn't going to live 30 years, some are gonna die sooner. You want to devote some time to that long term. So that's what distinguishes it You know, basically it's the long term. And it's, it's talking to committed loyal donors, you're not going to acquire new donors, plan giving is not a donor acquisition strategy by any stretch, you're talking to long term committed donors, about continuing their, their giving, it's just a natural extension of the giving that they've been doing for years.  

  

Julia Campbell  10:22   

So how do we find these people? How do we know when they're ready? And how many people do you think you should be approaching? Is there some kind of percentage of your database? 

  

Tony Martignetti  10:32   

You start with data that you already have, you just query your your CRM, and look for those loyal donors who have been giving, you know, for you, or for some nonprofits, 10 years, maybe a long time, I've seen organizations in the accelerator and I've worked with them, and retainer where the organization is like 30 years of giving, you know, 40, gifts, 45 gifts in 30 years. And these might be small gifts, they might be, as I was saying, you know, might be small gifts, five $10. But if folks are giving to you over that kind of term, whether it's 10 years for you, as a long, long term donor or 30 years, for years, a long term donor, if folks are giving to you over those many years, you know, with maybe just a couple of years lapse and and sometimes you don't see any years left, I mean, the giving histories can be amazing. Those your prospects, and from that list that you pull of committed donors, you pull out your top prospects, and I would say the top prospects are the ones who your nonprofit has a relationship with like somebody in your organization is comfortable talking to them picking up the phone, they're the kind of donor that will always take a meeting with somebody in the organization. And those I think those are your top prospects, and then all the rest of the folks, all those other loyal, committed donors who you don't really know, they're your tier two, plan giving prospects. And instead of personal approaches, they would get a larger sort of mass approach, either direct mail, print or digital. 

  

Julia Campbell  12:03   

So do we need a lawyer to do this? Like, how can we do this? If we don't have an entire department? Like how, how much time should we be dedicating and do we need a lawyer? 

  

Tony Martignetti  12:14   

Yeah, no, lawyer? No, absolutely not. I'm probably the only lawyer who will tell you. 

  

Julia Campbell  12:18   

You don't need a lawyer. 

  

Tony Martignetti  12:20   

You don't need a lawyer. No, you're not on your board, not on your staff, not as a consultant. Because we're talking about simple wills, gifts in wills. That's where you launch your program. Look, you know, if five years from launch, you want to go into more sophisticated planned gifts. Sure. Those are available, they can be valuable. But it's comforting to small and mid sized shops to No, you don't have to do that. You never have to go beyond Simple Gifts by will. 20 years from now, you can have a very respectable Planned Giving Program and still just be promoting gifts by will. How many hours you asked, you know how many people I mean, I'd like to kick off with an hour a week 

  

Julia Campbell  13:02   

An hour a week. Awesome. So yeah, tell us how you spend that hour? 

  

Tony Martignetti  13:06   

Well, you could say that implant giving accelerator is one way, I'll help you step by step. Putting that aside. First step, query your database, find those loyal donors, and then pull out the people who have those good relationships with someone in your nonprofit, whether it's you CEO, a board member, yourself, whoever it is, again, so we started as it was over stratifying our prospects, those folks who have a relationship with somebody, those your top prospects, they're going to get personal solicitations, we're going to personally opened the conversation with them. And then everyone else that's the tier two, you know, you hit them with direct mail or or digital, you start promoting plans. Giving in your your newsletters, again, doesn't matter whether it's digital or print. You don't have to write a 300 word article about wills and planned to giving. And I hope you would not use that phrase with your donors in your newsletter. Simple sidebar, like 30 words, we're putting a focus on long term gifts to our work. It's so easy for you to include us in your will. Here's the three things you need our legal name, our tax ID, and our address. Share this information with your attorney. It's so easy. And then of course you want to you know, have a contact person for them to reach out to in your organization. That person is not having hard conversations. Julia, it's a conversation about the sustainability of your work, how important it is to your community. however you define community might be your little local neighborhood might be a state, the nation, the world, the environment, however you define community, how important it is to that community that your work continue for decades and generations to come. What would it look like to that community? If your work didn't exist? 20 years from now, How bad would that be for your community? The gift that you're talking to someone about is going to prevent that ugly future from ever happening. 

  

Julia Campbell  15:07   

I think you bring up a great point where there are a lot of conversations that I don't think you and I agree with around how nonprofits should be in the business of putting themselves out of business. And I think, wow, so does that mean that all of these government agencies that provide services need to be putting themselves out of business, like there's always going to be a need, there's always a gap you're filling, there's always a problem that you're solving in the community. And having that long term vision. I think a lot of nonprofits struggle with that. Because they say, Well, if we're doing our job, then the need is going to go down. But as we know, I mean, in this economy, and it with everything that's going on in the world, the need is probably only going to increase at least in the next few years. So being open and honest about that with your donors and saying, Look, you can really ensure that our doors are open for the next 20 3040 years talking like that having those conversations, I think that's a very important point. My next question has to do with how to broach these conversations when your board or your executive director might be a little skittish around talking about death, talking about wills. I mean, it brings up for some of us, you know, uncomfortable thoughts, uncomfortable things that we have to think about our future, our mortality, and some people are not comfortable with that. So how do you answer those objections in your organization, if you want to start this, but other people are, are sort of hesitant and skeptical 

  

Tony Martignetti  16:45   

You need to assure those folks that it's not a conversation about death. It's about life, the life of your nonprofit, the sustainability of your work, your mission and your values. You're having a conversation with committed loyal donors, about the one thing that you know, you have in common with those folks, your work. You all love it. You know, they love it, because they've been long term committed donors over years, and maybe decades. You love it, because I hope you love the work that you're supporting, that you're spending your time growing, right. That's what you have in common. That's what the conversation is about. So it's just about long term giving. You can reassure your board members and other potential naysayers, that it's not a conversation about death. It's just about the long term sustainability of your your nonprofit. And perhaps those board members, maybe they are business people. Don't they plan the long term for their businesses? Maybe they have a succession plan for their business to go to their family, children, siblings, younger siblings, whatever. Don't they plan long term for their business? Well, you know, you're in a business happens to be a nonprofit, Corporation. But it is a business in lots of ways. You run it like a business, you have salaries, you have leases, you have mortgages, you have program expenses, you have clients. So, you know, I mean, I think folks realize, in the nonprofit nation, world that you're running businesses, well, maybe you can draw a little parallel there for for some folks who might have their own businesses, but are discouraging you from planning long term for yours. 

  

Julia Campbell  18:33   

And what I love about what you said earlier about just putting a little blurb in your newsletter, and just sort of seeding the fact that this is available. And this is an opportunity for people because I'm sure you see this, Tony, all the time. When fundraisers are skeptical about asking for money, it really has to do with mindset. And it has to do with the fact that they're not looking at it as giving the donor an opportunity to make a difference or do something meaningful, or contribute to a cause that they care about. And I know, we saw this in the pandemic, donors giving because they felt like the world was out of control, but they had some agency over where their money went. And they had some agency and some control over some of the things that they support. So just even letting donors know that this is available. Like what is the first step? What do you think that people should do? First put something in the newsletter, send out an email, and what has to be in place for all of this to happen? Or can you just sort of put it in an email and send it out and and see what happens? 

  

Tony Martignetti  19:38   

First thing I would do Julia is start approaching those top prospects that you identify 

  

Julia Campbell  19:43   

one on one so you would approach them individually. 

  

Tony Martignetti  19:46   

Start Yeah, just open the door. Here's here's here's the here's the conversation starter. You don't pick up the phone and say, Would you consider gifting your will? You know, of course you ease into it naturally right but you work into the conversation We're starting to focus on long term gifts for our work, you know, we need to be here for the long term. And we're focusing on gifts in people's wills, you've been a longtime supporter of our work. Is that something you would consider? 

  

Julia Campbell  20:18   

I love that. I think that's just a wonderful way to do it. You know, it's not trying to twist their arm or force them, 

  

Tony Martignetti  20:26   

Right? Is it something you would consider? And when you're talking to folks, and again, I said, you know, 55 to 60. And over, there's a good chance, they may have had this conversation with other nonprofits, either through direct mail or face to face, depending on what their relationship is, with the other organizations. So, you know, there's a, there's some competition there for getting into people's long term plans. 

  

Julia Campbell  20:50   

And I think it's interesting because it's phrased as an invitation, not really a solicitation. And to be honest, if I am 55, and I'm still giving you the organizations that I give to, and they don't ask me, I really might be offended. I might think they don't know me, they're not following me, they're not looking at my gifts, they're not understanding that I've been giving for 30 years 

  

Tony Martignetti  21:14   

You raise an excellent point there, part of the conversation can very well be an honoring of your donors, long term commitment to your work. You've given us, you know, you can expound on what I what I proposed a couple of minutes ago, you've been giving us to us for so many years. I mean, do you realize it's been 27 years since your first gift, and you've been so loyal? And here's what the gifts have meant. And you know, as you know, you've seen some of our work, you know, of course, you tailor it to the, to the relationship that you have. But it's also an honoring of the person's commitment to your work over so many years. And that gets to you know, you're saying you might be offended if somebody didn't, that's a possibility, as the evangelist for Planned Giving, I'm not going to say no to that that sentiment could be out there. But you certainly do want to include, you know, honoring that, that long term commitment. And this just becomes a natural extension of it. And that's how I, I want to democratize planned giving, because it's not only for wealthy donors. And it's not only for big nonprofits. 

  

Julia Campbell  22:19   

Yeah, no, let's democratize philanthropy. I think that we tend to think of it as like you said, In the beginning, the realm of the very rich, or these organizations like Harvard University, and these huge hospitals, they're the only ones that can get these kinds of requests, and these gifts and wells. And what we're seeing really are smaller nonprofits, and even just really tiny local organizations acquiring these gifts, even accidentally, even out of the blue. Someone will put them in there. Well, you must have stories like that. 

  

Tony Martignetti  22:53   

Yeah, yeah. We're always encouraging folks to let us know that they've included us in their will, because we want to be able to shake their hand and thank them and welcome them to our recognition society, our planned giving recognition society, but many, many folks, that's probably been 1000, I'm sure it's been 1000s, over 26 years, will never tell you, it's just too personal and private to them, even though you're in their will. They don't want to let you know. Unfortunately, in those cases, you don't find out until the person has died. And you get you get a notice. 

  

Julia Campbell  23:22   

What are some special ways you recommend acknowledging these, like you said, the recognition society, do you recommend creating a special group a special society for these donors if they do tell you that they have given you a gift? Or included you in there?  

  

Tony Martignetti  23:40   

Well, certainly, Julia. Yeah. For the ones who have said, I have included you in my will, by all means they deserve a recognition society. You have you have societies for people who make gifts at different dollar levels, right? I mean, for some organizations, it might be 100. For some, it might start at 1000, for bigger organizations that could go up, you know, $10,000, circle, whatever, whatever that's called the producers or the the insiders, but you're playing giving donors they deserve a recognition society as well. And then, and then how to thank them. Beyond that. Insider communications, you know, are there is there something? Is there a publication or something that you share with major donors, you could share with your plan gift donors as well, VIP seating at a at an event. So I'm not saying have a devoted plan giving event because now we're getting into bigger budget, but an event you're already hosting for the cost of 12 or 15 feet of masking tape? Can you take off some seats and write VIP on it? And those are the seats for your plan giving donors notice inexpensive ways to thank folks. And you just you know, by having the recognition society, you'll keep these folks top of mind it's just having the recognition society helps you remember that? Oh, yeah, we should invite these folks to let's include them in the in the the end You will report. 

  

Julia Campbell  25:00   

I do have one more question. I wanted to talk about the plan giving accelerator. But I did see a great question you put in the FAQ section of the website. Does planned giving effect other kinds of fundraising does it take away from fundraising, like your annual fund? 

  

Tony Martignetti  25:21   

The belief that it does is a, let's call it an insidious myth that needs to be debunked, badly. Planned Giving does not hurt your other fundraising. In fact, it's the opposite. It helps your other fundraising. I can cite two sources for that. The first one is me. Been doing this my 26th year and plan to giving 2023 I've seen hundreds of people who tell us they're in that we're in their will or maybe some other long term plan. And they increase their giving. And why do I think they do that? Because they feel so much closer to the nonprofit and the work. Because what look what they've done. The donor is a woman. She's put her the nonprofit alongside her husband, children, grandchildren, and maybe even dear friends, sometimes dear friends worked our way into our wills, because they're so close to our hearts. When you're putting an organization alongside your grandchildren, you love the work. So folks feel closer after they've made this this commitment to include you in their will the other source, okay, you might say well, Pasha, Tony Martin Edie. 26 years old, he's got 26 years worth of anecdotes. no value, no value, dismiss, dismiss him. Okay, fine. Professor Russell, James, Texas Tech University, he studies planned giving quantitatively, and he has research that has shown, I think it's 72 or 75% of people who include an organization in their will that gift specifically, increase, there are other forms of giving. And typically, that's annual giving, but could be sustained or giving major gifts. You know, maybe more sporadic, but, but it's it's almost three quarters, if it's not three quarters, percent of the people who include an organization, and that will increase their giving. So you have 26 years of anecdotes from me. And you have Professor Russell James at Texas Tech University. 

  

Julia Campbell  27:26   

I think that makes complete sense. Because it's just like you said, it's something that's so powerful, putting your organization next to your grandchildren next to your children, if you don't have children, next to other organizations next to your friends, your I mean, family members, I think there's something so powerful about that, that once they do that, you're right, it probably spurs them to make a deeper connection with the organization and then look at the giving that they're doing and realizing that wow, I mean, we have the money now we can we can give it away now. So it's really interesting. 

  

Tony Martignetti  28:09   

It deepens the relationship. And not only on a fundraising basis, but just on a relationship basis. folks feel closer to you they feel closer to the fundraiser that had this conversation with them. I've seen it a 1000s of times and, and often sometimes with me, well, since 2003, I've experienced it as a consultant. I'm not even an employee of the organization, I felt I felt the tighter connection after the conversation and after the commitment. 

  

Julia Campbell  28:38   

Well, all right, tell us about the planned giving accelerator at the time of this recording. You can tell us when it's going to open I think it's March. 

  

Tony Martignetti  28:47   

Yes, early March. It's a three month course. We're going to be done by Memorial Day. I'll meet with you in a group online. And we do set I set them up zoom meetings, not webinars. So you interrupt me we cross talk, folks help each other. I mean, the peer to peer support has been phenomenal in in the first four classes. In the fifth class. As I said, starting early March, I'll walk you through the steps to launch plan giving at your nonprofit. There's a deep discount depending on when we're going to release this I think in early February right Julia? So in February there'll be 40% of the full cost of the tuition and then all the information is that Planned Giving accelerator.com Okay, and who is it for? small and midsize shops those are those are the folks I produce my my podcast for the other ones I created a plan giving accelerator for folks who don't have plan to giving and see the value and know that sustainability is important in their in their fundraising I'll give them all kinds of resources, sample letters, templates, checklists, we'll talk about identifying your top prospects, your tier two. And then after we identify them, soliciting them, talking to your board about Planned Giving. We'll talk about all kinds of different marketing channels. 

  

Julia Campbell  30:19   

Okay, and where else can people learn about you and subscribe to your podcast? 

  

Tony Martignetti  30:24   

Well, there's a couple of different ways. If you want to learn more about Planned Giving, and you tend to like to read, I have a free how to guide. And that is at the very short Bitly Tony dot m a slash guide, gy D. And that will get you the download of how to unleash the game changing power of playing giving 

  

Julia Campbell  30:48   

What a good title. I love it it and look for nonprofit radio everywhere. It'll come up 

  

Tony Martignetti  30:56   

nonprofit radio. Yes. My podcast, Julie has been a guest picking the brains of smart folks for the benefit of small and mid size nonprofits. 

  

Julia Campbell  31:06   

Yeah, that's what I do, too. I love it. Well, thanks so much, Tony, for taking the time. And I encourage everyone to check out the resources. I'll post them all in the show notes. And good luck with this cohort of the accelerator. I'm sure it's gonna be great. 

  

Tony Martignetti  31:20   

Julia, thank you very much. Thanks for hosting pleasure. It's a pleasure to be with the nonprofit nation. listeners. Love it. I love that nonprofit nation. Love it. 

  

Julia Campbell  31:29   

Thanks, Tony. 

  

Well, hey there, I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show, and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell seven, seven. Keep changing the world your nonprofit unicorn 

  

Transcribed by https://otter.ai