{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.09,"endTime":3.29,"body":"This episode is sponsored by Qgiv, a comprehensive"},{"startTime":3.37,"endTime":6.43,"body":"fundraising platform trusted by over 20,000"},{"startTime":6.5,"endTime":10.282,"body":"fundraisers. Through online giving and event registration forms,"},{"startTime":10.346,"endTime":13.978,"body":"text fundraising, PeerToPeer campaigns, and auction events,"},{"startTime":14.074,"endTime":17.822,"body":"qgiv's tools help fundraisers like you raise more."},{"startTime":17.956,"endTime":21.374,"body":"The Qgiv team understands that fundraising isn't always an easy"},{"startTime":21.412,"endTime":25.074,"body":"job to help, they recently surveyed fundraising professionals"},{"startTime":25.162,"endTime":28.87,"body":"donors to create a soon to be released report, building"},{"startTime":28.94,"endTime":32.502,"body":"a Sustainable Future a guide to Healthy Fundraising. This"},{"startTime":32.556,"endTime":35.958,"body":"report explores how the economy, staffing issues,"},{"startTime":36.044,"endTime":39.686,"body":"declining donor numbers, and more have impacted nonprofit"},{"startTime":39.718,"endTime":43.206,"body":"teams. To learn how you can build more sustainable fundraising"},{"startTime":43.238,"endTime":46.73,"body":"revenue and advocate for data backed change, head to"},{"startTime":46.8,"endTime":49.18,"body":"jcsocialmarketing.com"},{"startTime":49.79,"endTime":51.706,"body":"qive that's"},{"startTime":51.738,"endTime":55.578,"body":"jcsocialmarketing.com Qgiv,"},{"startTime":55.754,"endTime":59.566,"body":"to be notified when the report is released and to receive your free"},{"startTime":59.588,"endTime":62.99,"body":"copy. Thank you and let's get to the episode."},{"startTime":65.51,"endTime":69.006,"body":"Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host,"},{"startTime":69.038,"endTime":72.446,"body":"Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit,"},{"startTime":72.478,"endTime":76.31,"body":"industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone"},{"startTime":76.38,"endTime":80.134,"body":"in between to get real and discuss what it takes to"},{"startTime":80.172,"endTime":83.954,"body":"build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created"},{"startTime":84.002,"endTime":87.834,"body":"the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and"},{"startTime":87.872,"endTime":91.59,"body":"strategies to help you confidently find your voice,"},{"startTime":91.75,"endTime":95.546,"body":"definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your"},{"startTime":95.568,"endTime":99.094,"body":"movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced"},{"startTime":99.142,"endTime":102.99,"body":"professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people,"},{"startTime":103.06,"endTime":106.462,"body":"and create even more impact, then you're in the right"},{"startTime":106.516,"endTime":108.56,"body":"place. Let's get started."},{"startTime":113.99,"endTime":117.566,"body":"Hi, everyone. This is Julia Campbell, your host."},{"startTime":117.678,"endTime":121.038,"body":"And welcome back to Nonprofit nation."},{"startTime":121.214,"endTime":124.798,"body":"Happy to be here with you today. Wherever you're listening from,"},{"startTime":124.984,"endTime":128.29,"body":"today's topic is all about creating"},{"startTime":128.45,"endTime":132.294,"body":"human centered digital content. And"},{"startTime":132.332,"endTime":135.826,"body":"in the current climate of generative AI and chat"},{"startTime":135.858,"endTime":139.466,"body":"GPT seemingly taking over the world and"},{"startTime":139.568,"endTime":143.386,"body":"spam and terrible marketing coming at us from sort"},{"startTime":143.408,"endTime":147.034,"body":"of every corner, I really wanted to"},{"startTime":147.152,"endTime":150.862,"body":"have an expert on to talk about how we can create"},{"startTime":150.916,"endTime":154.734,"body":"communications and talk to our donors and constituents in a way"},{"startTime":154.772,"endTime":158.334,"body":"that is more human centered. So today I"},{"startTime":158.372,"endTime":162.122,"body":"have Bailey Lewis, and Bailey is a content strategist"},{"startTime":162.266,"endTime":166.082,"body":"who runs the Words First course and community. She"},{"startTime":166.136,"endTime":169.522,"body":"created Words First to transform the way that"},{"startTime":169.576,"endTime":173.326,"body":"professionals and their organizations communicate with other humans"},{"startTime":173.358,"endTime":177.206,"body":"online. And Bailey coaches, leaders, and teams all over"},{"startTime":177.228,"endTime":181.062,"body":"the world to new levels of digital success through"},{"startTime":181.116,"endTime":184.934,"body":"a human first words first mindset in"},{"startTime":184.972,"endTime":188.694,"body":"key areas of digital decision making. Her goal"},{"startTime":188.742,"endTime":192.554,"body":"is to help organizations make their online spaces a"},{"startTime":192.592,"endTime":196.346,"body":"better place for everyone on both sides of"},{"startTime":196.368,"endTime":199.546,"body":"the screen. That sounds fantastic. Bailey, welcome to the"},{"startTime":199.568,"endTime":203.07,"body":"podcast. Hello. Glad to be here. Tell"},{"startTime":203.14,"endTime":206.958,"body":"us about Words First and how it got started."},{"startTime":207.124,"endTime":210.67,"body":"Yes, absolutely. So I've been a digital content"},{"startTime":210.74,"endTime":214.354,"body":"strategist for more than a decade now, which is strange to"},{"startTime":214.392,"endTime":218.162,"body":"say, but there it is. And I was"},{"startTime":218.216,"endTime":221.154,"body":"part of teams where we would do these really"},{"startTime":221.192,"endTime":224.814,"body":"fantastic digital projects, complex digital"},{"startTime":224.862,"endTime":228.59,"body":"projects, helping people with their content, their design, their development,"},{"startTime":228.75,"endTime":232.326,"body":"and we would go away. It would be a somewhat collaborative process, but we would"},{"startTime":232.348,"endTime":235.782,"body":"go away and we would create this really great thing, make all these content"},{"startTime":235.836,"endTime":239.414,"body":"strategy choices, come back and present it to the client. They'd say, oh"},{"startTime":239.452,"endTime":242.726,"body":"wow, this is great. But then inevitably, they didn't"},{"startTime":242.758,"endTime":246.186,"body":"know how to keep the maintenance on their side. Of the"},{"startTime":246.208,"endTime":250.058,"body":"screen, how to keep the momentum going. Yes. How to always the way,"},{"startTime":250.144,"endTime":253.642,"body":"how to. Govern it, how to evolve it. And they weren't sure how"},{"startTime":253.696,"endTime":257.198,"body":"certain content strategy decisions had been made. So it was really difficult for them to"},{"startTime":257.204,"endTime":261.038,"body":"keep that content strategy going. So I saw the gap. I"},{"startTime":261.044,"endTime":264.286,"body":"saw the need. I said, people need to know how to do this."},{"startTime":264.388,"endTime":268.114,"body":"Internal teams, professionals and leaders need to know how important this"},{"startTime":268.152,"endTime":271.874,"body":"is. Because the practice of digital content strategy, the way I practice it,"},{"startTime":271.912,"endTime":275.746,"body":"is, as you said, humans first, words first. The"},{"startTime":275.768,"endTime":279.446,"body":"words really matter to how we communicate in compassionate and empathetic ways with"},{"startTime":279.468,"endTime":283.094,"body":"people online and how they view our organizations and"},{"startTime":283.132,"endTime":286.518,"body":"the kind of interactions that they have with us. And it all happens"},{"startTime":286.604,"endTime":290.15,"body":"through this practice of content strategy, especially"},{"startTime":290.22,"endTime":293.978,"body":"married, with a practice of user experience and customer experience. And so I"},{"startTime":293.984,"endTime":297.354,"body":"set out to teach people how to do that for themselves. I love that you"},{"startTime":297.392,"endTime":301.022,"body":"say an experience for people on both sides of the screen. You also"},{"startTime":301.076,"endTime":304.442,"body":"write that so many digital experiences"},{"startTime":304.586,"endTime":308.206,"body":"are chaotic and unusable for both the"},{"startTime":308.228,"endTime":311.998,"body":"audiences trying to engage with them and the teams building them."},{"startTime":312.084,"endTime":315.906,"body":"So why is this? How can we combat this? Right? And a"},{"startTime":315.928,"endTime":319.602,"body":"lot of it has to do with the fact that the mere yet big"},{"startTime":319.656,"endTime":322.786,"body":"fact that we so often save"},{"startTime":322.968,"endTime":326.546,"body":"the words, the content, but mostly the words for last in"},{"startTime":326.568,"endTime":330.406,"body":"digital spaces. So those listening might be really familiar with"},{"startTime":330.428,"endTime":334.054,"body":"the process. I'm about to describe where you go through maybe"},{"startTime":334.092,"endTime":337.51,"body":"a short discovery period where you talk about what you want, the website or your"},{"startTime":337.58,"endTime":341.366,"body":"app or whatever your digital space might be. You discuss what you want"},{"startTime":341.388,"endTime":344.106,"body":"it to do, what are your goals, and then you say, okay, that's great. Now"},{"startTime":344.128,"endTime":347.846,"body":"we want to get to the fun stuff. We want to get to design. Let's"},{"startTime":347.878,"endTime":351.386,"body":"see what this thing looks like. But there's a critical step missing there because when"},{"startTime":351.408,"endTime":355.07,"body":"we do it that way, then design has to basically just leave content"},{"startTime":355.14,"endTime":358.846,"body":"a little box to put words in. And that is"},{"startTime":358.868,"endTime":362.366,"body":"the major thing that's keeping first of all teams from being able to"},{"startTime":362.468,"endTime":366.242,"body":"maintain content in a way that makes intuitive sense for their"},{"startTime":366.296,"endTime":369.934,"body":"processes and their practices and to create more or stronger"},{"startTime":369.982,"endTime":373.826,"body":"connections with audiences. It's also what prevents audiences from being able"},{"startTime":373.848,"endTime":377.654,"body":"to interact with us in a really natural way in our"},{"startTime":377.692,"endTime":381.442,"body":"digital spaces. I had a guest on the podcast"},{"startTime":381.506,"endTime":384.934,"body":"and why am I not going to remember? I'll put it in the show"},{"startTime":384.972,"endTime":388.714,"body":"notes, a web designer, and it was probably about"},{"startTime":388.752,"endTime":392.458,"body":"a year ago, and she said that"},{"startTime":392.544,"endTime":396.294,"body":"so many websites are like this beautiful brochure in a dark hallway"},{"startTime":396.422,"endTime":400.186,"body":"just looking over there and no one uses them. And like you"},{"startTime":400.208,"endTime":403.786,"body":"said, the user experience is not top of mind. It's always what do we want"},{"startTime":403.808,"endTime":406.078,"body":"on the website? What do we want it to do, what do we want it"},{"startTime":406.084,"endTime":409.838,"body":"to look like? Not what do people actually want"},{"startTime":409.924,"endTime":413.77,"body":"to use it for? Correct. Yes. The people and the words and"},{"startTime":413.78,"endTime":417.154,"body":"the content that will serve them. When you start putting those"},{"startTime":417.352,"endTime":421.07,"body":"considerations and discussions first in your digital processes,"},{"startTime":421.23,"endTime":424.34,"body":"the world literally changes for you in your digital space."},{"startTime":425.03,"endTime":428.68,"body":"You have so much more ability to connect with people in genuine ways"},{"startTime":429.13,"endTime":432.914,"body":"if you put those things first. So how can marketing"},{"startTime":432.962,"endTime":436.502,"body":"teams flip this content creation process? What are some"},{"startTime":436.556,"endTime":440.262,"body":"strategies we can employ? Yes. So first of all, and"},{"startTime":440.316,"endTime":442.986,"body":"I guess I will say this one first, because it might be one of the"},{"startTime":443.008,"endTime":446.826,"body":"most painful, but it really is worth a"},{"startTime":446.848,"endTime":450.494,"body":"little extra investment in this area, which is to get your"},{"startTime":450.532,"endTime":454.014,"body":"communications and content professionals into the same software that your"},{"startTime":454.052,"endTime":457.79,"body":"designers and anyone who's dealing with layout is using."},{"startTime":457.94,"endTime":461.31,"body":"That's a really interesting thought. Okay."},{"startTime":461.46,"endTime":465.282,"body":"Right. Because when they're writing in Word documents, Google documents, whatever,"},{"startTime":465.336,"endTime":468.69,"body":"you use these communications, content"},{"startTime":468.84,"endTime":472.69,"body":"words, people, they are necessarily siloed from how the"},{"startTime":472.84,"endTime":476.662,"body":"content is going to appear in an actual context of a website or an email"},{"startTime":476.716,"endTime":480.342,"body":"series or whatever your digital space is presenting it as."},{"startTime":480.476,"endTime":483.974,"body":"So when communications and content professionals get"},{"startTime":484.012,"endTime":487.714,"body":"into tools, software that does layout, they can start to"},{"startTime":487.852,"endTime":491.702,"body":"make visual decisions and they can start to communicate visually"},{"startTime":491.846,"endTime":495.402,"body":"to a design team about content hierarchy, about"},{"startTime":495.536,"endTime":499.242,"body":"what content belongs in proximity to another"},{"startTime":499.296,"endTime":502.41,"body":"piece of content, about flow of information across"},{"startTime":502.48,"endTime":506.206,"body":"screens. And so they're not in there doing design. And what they"},{"startTime":506.228,"endTime":509.966,"body":"do is not going to be anything you would publish visually live, but"},{"startTime":509.988,"endTime":513.54,"body":"it creates a kind of language that doesn't exist otherwise between"},{"startTime":513.99,"endTime":517.822,"body":"content people and the interface and then also content communications"},{"startTime":517.886,"endTime":521.06,"body":"people and the design team. That's really interesting to"},{"startTime":521.51,"endTime":525.25,"body":"actually have the people that are doing the writing look at"},{"startTime":525.32,"endTime":529.094,"body":"where the words are going to go and how they're going to fit and"},{"startTime":529.292,"endTime":533.046,"body":"what is the other content that's adjacent to it. I'm thinking of"},{"startTime":533.148,"endTime":536.694,"body":"all of my poor marketing and fundraising people out there that do the email"},{"startTime":536.732,"endTime":540.498,"body":"newsletter every month or bimonthly or every week,"},{"startTime":540.604,"endTime":544.154,"body":"and they're constantly getting thrown content to put in the email"},{"startTime":544.192,"endTime":547.754,"body":"newsletter, but they're designing it in such a way to maybe have white space"},{"startTime":547.872,"endTime":551.626,"body":"or to have bulleted lists. And the other people"},{"startTime":551.728,"endTime":555.454,"body":"kind of giving them content are not understanding the way that they're using"},{"startTime":555.492,"endTime":559.338,"body":"the email newsletter or even the experience of the person opening"},{"startTime":559.354,"endTime":562.718,"body":"the email newsletter because they're just writing it in an email or writing it on"},{"startTime":562.724,"endTime":565.346,"body":"a Word doc. They're not looking at it on a phone or looking at it"},{"startTime":565.368,"endTime":569.134,"body":"like in Gmail. So I think that's a really valuable"},{"startTime":569.182,"endTime":571.86,"body":"tip. So you talk about"},{"startTime":572.31,"endTime":575.326,"body":"user experience content strategy"},{"startTime":575.358,"endTime":578.934,"body":"principles. What are they and what"},{"startTime":578.972,"endTime":582.582,"body":"are user experience content strategy principles? Sure. So"},{"startTime":582.636,"endTime":586.422,"body":"the fancy jargon name for what I do and some listening may know exactly"},{"startTime":586.476,"endTime":589.158,"body":"what I'm talking about. And if you don't, I would say you don't have to"},{"startTime":589.164,"endTime":592.81,"body":"know the jargon to benefit from this, but it is called user experience content"},{"startTime":592.88,"endTime":596.586,"body":"strategy. And those principles, that's a really good"},{"startTime":596.608,"endTime":600.266,"body":"segue from what you were talking about in terms of white space, in terms of"},{"startTime":600.288,"endTime":603.786,"body":"bulleted lists. It's all about how we present and format"},{"startTime":603.898,"endTime":607.214,"body":"information through a screen to"},{"startTime":607.252,"endTime":610.686,"body":"communicate human to human with other people. So we're communicating human to"},{"startTime":610.708,"endTime":614.526,"body":"human through the least human medium that I'm aware of, which"},{"startTime":614.548,"endTime":617.54,"body":"is the screen. And so the way that we present"},{"startTime":617.91,"endTime":621.566,"body":"information is really important. You may have heard people don't"},{"startTime":621.598,"endTime":625.406,"body":"read online in large part, and there will be people who tell you that's"},{"startTime":625.438,"endTime":628.962,"body":"not true. If their task is to read, they will"},{"startTime":629.016,"endTime":632.482,"body":"read. But most of the time they came to do something, they came to donate."},{"startTime":632.546,"endTime":636.23,"body":"Hey, we want them to be able to do that. They came to research"},{"startTime":636.3,"endTime":639.606,"body":"an initiative that you have going. And so that's not pure reading. It's kind of"},{"startTime":639.628,"endTime":643.178,"body":"more, oh, I get the gist. Okay, let me take my next step."},{"startTime":643.344,"endTime":646.794,"body":"And so a lot of times, they're interacting with us, our"},{"startTime":646.832,"endTime":650.346,"body":"organizations, online, or to do something. So the way we guide them to do that"},{"startTime":650.448,"endTime":654.03,"body":"is to make it easy for them. And that's through headings. That's through white space."},{"startTime":654.1,"endTime":657.6,"body":"That's through presenting information in a way that they can really"},{"startTime":657.97,"endTime":661.69,"body":"understand and absorb that information kind of immediately"},{"startTime":661.77,"endTime":665.594,"body":"at a glance. Because the big lift we want them to do is to interact"},{"startTime":665.642,"endTime":669.122,"body":"with us, to take that action, whatever the final action is in our digital space,"},{"startTime":669.176,"endTime":672.354,"body":"to interact with us. That's where we want their attention and their work"},{"startTime":672.392,"endTime":676.014,"body":"focused. Yes. So it's principles surrounding"},{"startTime":676.062,"endTime":679.762,"body":"what you might typically think are a designer's job, but a designer"},{"startTime":679.906,"endTime":683.686,"body":"doesn't have the expertise in why the content was put together the way"},{"startTime":683.708,"endTime":687.506,"body":"that it was usually in order to make decisions like what should the heading"},{"startTime":687.538,"endTime":691.194,"body":"be, what should the bullets be, what should this action link be? Where should it"},{"startTime":691.232,"endTime":694.794,"body":"even go? Many of those really belong in the realm of content, but"},{"startTime":694.832,"endTime":698.666,"body":"designers have to make those decisions because they're the ones in"},{"startTime":698.688,"endTime":701.706,"body":"the layout software. They're the ones looking at how it's"},{"startTime":701.738,"endTime":705.434,"body":"formatted. So we're being kind to the user"},{"startTime":705.562,"endTime":709.054,"body":"and thinking about the user experience more than we are thinking"},{"startTime":709.092,"endTime":712.83,"body":"about really what we want to accomplish. Like,"},{"startTime":712.9,"endTime":716.578,"body":"what was their goal coming here, reading this email, going to"},{"startTime":716.584,"endTime":720.402,"body":"this website, looking at this particular post on social"},{"startTime":720.456,"endTime":724.242,"body":"media, what did they hope to accomplish? I really teach that"},{"startTime":724.296,"endTime":727.894,"body":"a lot in my social media training and coaching around,"},{"startTime":728.012,"endTime":731.766,"body":"thinking always about your user or the supporter at"},{"startTime":731.788,"endTime":735.286,"body":"the other end? What are they hoping for? Do they need to be"},{"startTime":735.308,"endTime":739.014,"body":"educated, inspired? Are they looking to, like you said, help out with"},{"startTime":739.052,"endTime":742.774,"body":"maybe a legislative advocacy push? Are they looking to donate?"},{"startTime":742.822,"endTime":746.314,"body":"Are they looking to volunteer? What are they looking to do? And I do think"},{"startTime":746.352,"endTime":750.138,"body":"a lot of digital communications, especially because they're so"},{"startTime":750.304,"endTime":753.806,"body":"free, quote unquote, free to use and to spit out there and to"},{"startTime":753.828,"endTime":757.662,"body":"do other than maybe a website redesign, that we are not as"},{"startTime":757.716,"endTime":761.422,"body":"intentional as we could be with our"},{"startTime":761.556,"endTime":765.246,"body":"digital communications. Especially like, you know, we spend hours and hours and"},{"startTime":765.268,"endTime":768.994,"body":"hours and days on the annual report that's going to be printed out"},{"startTime":769.032,"endTime":772.654,"body":"or the direct mail appeal that's going to be printed out. But digital"},{"startTime":772.702,"endTime":776.226,"body":"communications tend to maybe kind of fall by the wayside. Do you see"},{"startTime":776.248,"endTime":779.682,"body":"that? Yes, absolutely. Because digital can always be changed."},{"startTime":779.746,"endTime":782.406,"body":"Print is permanent. When you send it in the mail, you don't get to take"},{"startTime":782.428,"endTime":785.83,"body":"it back. But yes, I always say successful content"},{"startTime":785.9,"endTime":789.586,"body":"strategy, digital content strategy lies in the alignment"},{"startTime":789.618,"endTime":793.466,"body":"of your organizational goals because they're still important. You still want people to"},{"startTime":793.488,"endTime":797.13,"body":"do certain things or to know certain things or to understand them, but"},{"startTime":797.2,"endTime":800.922,"body":"it lies in the alignment of those organizational goals with your audience's"},{"startTime":800.986,"endTime":804.782,"body":"needs, motivations, and their expectations of you"},{"startTime":804.836,"endTime":808.366,"body":"online. As our world has continued to transform in the"},{"startTime":808.388,"endTime":811.71,"body":"digital space, people have ever"},{"startTime":811.86,"endTime":815.426,"body":"increased expectations of what their interactions will be like online as"},{"startTime":815.448,"endTime":818.5,"body":"well? Absolutely. They expect"},{"startTime":818.87,"endTime":822.434,"body":"fast frictionless, completely clear"},{"startTime":822.552,"endTime":826.294,"body":"and direct and instant, basically. So no"},{"startTime":826.332,"endTime":830.166,"body":"more fiddling around with 90 forms and having to be directed to"},{"startTime":830.188,"endTime":833.602,"body":"ten websites that load slowly. So let's switch"},{"startTime":833.666,"endTime":837.186,"body":"to the topic of the role"},{"startTime":837.218,"endTime":841.018,"body":"of empathy and compassion in digital content"},{"startTime":841.104,"endTime":844.62,"body":"strategy and creation. Can you talk about that? Yes. So"},{"startTime":845.55,"endTime":849.05,"body":"a lot of times our internal processes,"},{"startTime":849.63,"endTime":853.086,"body":"we might all like each other, we might all get"},{"startTime":853.108,"endTime":856.922,"body":"along, but in the midst of decision making, we can actually lose"},{"startTime":856.986,"endTime":860.154,"body":"empathy and compassion within the strategy, planning, and creation"},{"startTime":860.202,"endTime":863.47,"body":"process. It goes back to these practices"},{"startTime":863.55,"endTime":867.282,"body":"between content and design, content and tech, content"},{"startTime":867.336,"endTime":870.93,"body":"and planning. From an internal standpoint, having"},{"startTime":871.08,"endTime":874.842,"body":"writers, for example, writing in Silos, in Word documents"},{"startTime":875.006,"endTime":878.534,"body":"is actually not a very empathetic practice to their"},{"startTime":878.572,"endTime":882.04,"body":"creation experience. So there is"},{"startTime":882.57,"endTime":885.526,"body":"a need for more collaboration, more compassion for"},{"startTime":885.548,"endTime":889.314,"body":"interdisciplinary viewpoints, but also to integrate"},{"startTime":889.362,"endTime":893.146,"body":"those disciplines and those viewpoints together and to"},{"startTime":893.168,"endTime":896.806,"body":"have more empathy for this person doesn't, like you said earlier, doesn't"},{"startTime":896.838,"endTime":900.394,"body":"even know what the email looks like, but we're asking them to write for it."},{"startTime":900.432,"endTime":903.646,"body":"So for me, it really starts there on that side of the screen with the"},{"startTime":903.668,"endTime":907.262,"body":"team kind of understanding how those principles are impacting their own"},{"startTime":907.316,"endTime":910.72,"body":"work culture. And then all of that translates across the screen"},{"startTime":911.09,"endTime":914.274,"body":"to our audiences on the other side as well. And"},{"startTime":914.312,"endTime":917.714,"body":"so when we start paying more attention to compassion and"},{"startTime":917.752,"endTime":921.406,"body":"empathy in our practices, it starts to leak"},{"startTime":921.438,"endTime":925.266,"body":"into our other conversations too well. Hey, this error message kind of"},{"startTime":925.288,"endTime":928.806,"body":"sounds like we're blaming someone. Could we write this in a way"},{"startTime":928.908,"endTime":932.214,"body":"that doesn't put the fault on someone else? So when you start to have those"},{"startTime":932.252,"endTime":935.366,"body":"conversations internally, it becomes a lot easier to think"},{"startTime":935.468,"endTime":939.158,"body":"empathetically toward your audience members as well on the other side of the"},{"startTime":939.164,"endTime":942.822,"body":"screen. I'm just thinking of all the times I sign up for email newsletters,"},{"startTime":942.966,"endTime":946.31,"body":"and it really is just this bland, like, thank you for subscribing."},{"startTime":946.47,"endTime":950.22,"body":"Okay, well, great. Where's the excitement? Where's the interest?"},{"startTime":950.93,"endTime":954.542,"body":"Get me really passionate about what you're doing."},{"startTime":954.596,"endTime":958.126,"body":"What's my next step? What can I expect next?"},{"startTime":958.308,"endTime":961.882,"body":"So I agree. I think that's not very empathetic"},{"startTime":961.946,"endTime":965.674,"body":"to just kind of say, all right, click this button to confirm,"},{"startTime":965.802,"endTime":968.69,"body":"and you're on your way. And then, by the way, we might not email you"},{"startTime":968.76,"endTime":972.13,"body":"for two months, and then if we do, we might ask you for a gift."},{"startTime":972.71,"endTime":976.05,"body":"Yeah, and you know that that lack of excitement comes from the team"},{"startTime":976.12,"endTime":979.378,"body":"side. We have to write a success"},{"startTime":979.464,"endTime":983.014,"body":"message. Let's have someone write a success message. It's probably written in a word"},{"startTime":983.052,"endTime":986.806,"body":"document. Okay, now let's get somebody to put it let's get someone to put the"},{"startTime":986.828,"endTime":990.12,"body":"screen up. And so if there were more"},{"startTime":990.97,"endTime":994.746,"body":"thought behind the empathy, the compassion from the internal team, like, well, why are we"},{"startTime":994.768,"endTime":997.994,"body":"doing this? What's the purpose of this message? How does it resonate with the people"},{"startTime":998.032,"endTime":1000.938,"body":"on the other side of the screen? How does it resonate with us? Then all"},{"startTime":1000.944,"endTime":1004.638,"body":"of that translates back the other way, which gets people on the other side of"},{"startTime":1004.644,"endTime":1007.934,"body":"the screen excited, which should get us on this side of the screen excited. So"},{"startTime":1008.132,"endTime":1011.594,"body":"it goes back and forth in that way. So for digital"},{"startTime":1011.642,"endTime":1015.33,"body":"communications, what do you see as the most effective channels"},{"startTime":1015.67,"endTime":1019.3,"body":"for nonprofits in your work? Yeah, so"},{"startTime":1019.75,"endTime":1023.506,"body":"the answer that no one likes, it depends on your nonprofit. Oh, I say it"},{"startTime":1023.528,"endTime":1027.234,"body":"all the time. Yes, email, certainly, because if you can have people in your"},{"startTime":1027.272,"endTime":1030.914,"body":"email inbox, or if you can be in their email inboxes and they've invited"},{"startTime":1030.962,"endTime":1034.566,"body":"you in, that's a level of relationship and connection that"},{"startTime":1034.668,"endTime":1037.654,"body":"you won't get a lot of other places. They've invited you in, they've said, yes,"},{"startTime":1037.692,"endTime":1041.062,"body":"you can be in my personal space. Because I think we don't realize often"},{"startTime":1041.116,"endTime":1044.826,"body":"enough that email inboxes are people's personal space, and"},{"startTime":1044.848,"endTime":1048.538,"body":"they are subjected to everything that comes through that email inbox in a way that"},{"startTime":1048.544,"endTime":1052.094,"body":"we are not in a social media feed. But where I see no matter"},{"startTime":1052.132,"endTime":1055.79,"body":"what your chosen platforms are,"},{"startTime":1055.94,"endTime":1059.39,"body":"what I see most as a breakdown is"},{"startTime":1059.46,"endTime":1063.018,"body":"connecting the place where you are speaking"},{"startTime":1063.124,"endTime":1066.834,"body":"to your audience members out in the wilds of the internet, whether"},{"startTime":1066.872,"endTime":1070.05,"body":"that's on social media or even in your own email"},{"startTime":1070.12,"endTime":1073.522,"body":"correspondence connecting that to your"},{"startTime":1073.576,"endTime":1077.126,"body":"own digital space, like a website, an app,"},{"startTime":1077.308,"endTime":1080.982,"body":"a landing page, a form. The cohesion of the experience"},{"startTime":1081.116,"endTime":1084.614,"body":"from one channel to another is really where I"},{"startTime":1084.652,"endTime":1087.906,"body":"see things start to break down. And usually it's"},{"startTime":1087.938,"endTime":1091.766,"body":"because in part, we have one team kind of responsible for the site."},{"startTime":1091.948,"endTime":1095.466,"body":"We have a web partner responsible for the site. They take care of"},{"startTime":1095.488,"endTime":1099.194,"body":"that. We have someone responsible for the email newsletter, they take care of that. Someone"},{"startTime":1099.232,"endTime":1102.654,"body":"else maybe even does social media. And once again, it's not very"},{"startTime":1102.692,"endTime":1106.27,"body":"collaborative and interdisciplinary in that way. Exactly. Oh,"},{"startTime":1106.34,"endTime":1109.966,"body":"wow. The experience from site to site and platform to"},{"startTime":1109.988,"endTime":1113.71,"body":"platform can be wild. You could"},{"startTime":1113.78,"endTime":1116.994,"body":"send me from Facebook to your donate page on your"},{"startTime":1117.032,"endTime":1120.722,"body":"website and it might not even look the same, or"},{"startTime":1120.776,"endTime":1123.806,"body":"have the same photos, or have the same tone of voice or that same brand"},{"startTime":1123.838,"endTime":1127.63,"body":"voice. I might get completely confused. I've had that happen to"},{"startTime":1127.64,"endTime":1131.206,"body":"me quite a few times, like being sent out of"},{"startTime":1131.308,"endTime":1134.822,"body":"the social media space or even off of an email and"},{"startTime":1134.876,"endTime":1138.122,"body":"having the fonts and the colors and everything else look"},{"startTime":1138.256,"endTime":1142.074,"body":"dramatically different. And it's like you said before, people are so"},{"startTime":1142.112,"endTime":1145.34,"body":"used to that seamless experience"},{"startTime":1146.11,"endTime":1149.798,"body":"and frictionless experience. So I think that's really interesting."},{"startTime":1149.984,"endTime":1153.758,"body":"Also, I talk a lot about storytelling. I teach a"},{"startTime":1153.764,"endTime":1157.374,"body":"lot about storytelling in my work. And"},{"startTime":1157.492,"endTime":1160.814,"body":"I wonder where does storytelling fit in? Is this very"},{"startTime":1160.852,"endTime":1164.446,"body":"important to these kind of empathetic,"},{"startTime":1164.558,"endTime":1168.338,"body":"compassionate, content strategy principles? Yes,"},{"startTime":1168.424,"endTime":1171.906,"body":"it is. And maybe not in the way that we automatically think,"},{"startTime":1172.008,"endTime":1175.55,"body":"because storytelling, well, storytelling is a strategy"},{"startTime":1175.71,"endTime":1179.414,"body":"and can be strategic. And I have these"},{"startTime":1179.452,"endTime":1183.026,"body":"conversations quite often with my clients about strategic"},{"startTime":1183.058,"endTime":1186.566,"body":"storytelling, because what we all really want to do is as soon as someone gets"},{"startTime":1186.588,"endTime":1190.346,"body":"to our homepage, dive into our story why we do what we do. We"},{"startTime":1190.368,"endTime":1193.642,"body":"are passionate about it. These are causes that we really care"},{"startTime":1193.696,"endTime":1197.498,"body":"about, and rightfully so. And we want our audience members to"},{"startTime":1197.584,"endTime":1201.082,"body":"care too, and they probably do. But in the"},{"startTime":1201.136,"endTime":1204.974,"body":"areas where someone is just trying to get something done, they're just"},{"startTime":1205.012,"endTime":1208.778,"body":"trying to donate. Once they've"},{"startTime":1208.794,"endTime":1211.87,"body":"come to the part of the experience where they're just trying to navigate your site"},{"startTime":1211.94,"endTime":1215.454,"body":"so that's like maybe the beginning, when they first get to your website, for example,"},{"startTime":1215.652,"endTime":1219.274,"body":"or mostly for a website, they're just trying to navigate"},{"startTime":1219.322,"endTime":1223.098,"body":"around, they're not going to be paying attention so much to Story because they're"},{"startTime":1223.114,"endTime":1225.558,"body":"trying to figure out what's here. What did I come here for? Am I in"},{"startTime":1225.564,"endTime":1228.454,"body":"the right spot? We need a lot of handholding. It's all of us on the"},{"startTime":1228.492,"endTime":1232.038,"body":"am. I in the right spot? Such a key question. Yes. Am I even in"},{"startTime":1232.044,"endTime":1235.078,"body":"the right spot? And that's what we were just talking about. Hopping platform to platform"},{"startTime":1235.244,"endTime":1238.886,"body":"die even. Come where I meant to come to. They are worried about that when"},{"startTime":1238.908,"endTime":1242.522,"body":"they first arrive. Once you have them settled into,"},{"startTime":1242.656,"endTime":1246.266,"body":"yes, this is the right spot. Here's our logo. Here's some words that key you"},{"startTime":1246.288,"endTime":1249.766,"body":"in on why you're here and help them figure out where to go next. That's"},{"startTime":1249.798,"endTime":1253.278,"body":"when they will start to if they're not familiar with your story"},{"startTime":1253.444,"endTime":1256.814,"body":"or there's something that they came to research or to know more"},{"startTime":1256.852,"endTime":1260.32,"body":"about, they will then engage with that. So"},{"startTime":1261.49,"endTime":1265.226,"body":"it's a choose your own adventure from their point of view. But you're"},{"startTime":1265.258,"endTime":1268.834,"body":"the one over here writing how you would move from one piece of the story"},{"startTime":1268.872,"endTime":1272.706,"body":"to another for them. And so I think just one"},{"startTime":1272.728,"endTime":1276.146,"body":"of the biggest things I see is trying to tell stories everywhere, and there's no"},{"startTime":1276.168,"endTime":1279.922,"body":"room for interaction and just straight up interaction. There is"},{"startTime":1279.976,"endTime":1283.382,"body":"a progression to it. Am I in the right spot? Okay, I am."},{"startTime":1283.436,"endTime":1287.014,"body":"Now. What is the story? What do I need to know? Okay, now I'm ready"},{"startTime":1287.052,"endTime":1289.302,"body":"to act. So get the story out of my way, because I just want to"},{"startTime":1289.356,"endTime":1291.994,"body":"do the thing you asked me to do and that I want to do. And"},{"startTime":1292.032,"endTime":1295.77,"body":"once again, that's really all about what your audience members are"},{"startTime":1295.84,"endTime":1299.1,"body":"coming to your space to do. So we talk about"},{"startTime":1299.47,"endTime":1302.846,"body":"words first. Human centered content during the"},{"startTime":1302.868,"endTime":1306.27,"body":"campaign, maybe in a campaign, in a marketing or"},{"startTime":1306.34,"endTime":1309.854,"body":"promotional period. Fundraising period. What about"},{"startTime":1310.052,"endTime":1313.898,"body":"content strategy for afterwards,"},{"startTime":1313.994,"endTime":1317.794,"body":"after we got them to do the thing. Right, because we all celebrate as"},{"startTime":1317.832,"endTime":1321.586,"body":"we should. It's a hard one thing to get"},{"startTime":1321.608,"endTime":1325.25,"body":"anyone to notice. Your hard thing to do"},{"startTime":1325.4,"endTime":1329.046,"body":"get them to your site. Wow, we have them. And then that's when everyone wants"},{"startTime":1329.068,"endTime":1332.902,"body":"to celebrate because the marketing succeeded. But usually by the time"},{"startTime":1333.036,"endTime":1336.854,"body":"your audience is at your website or your app or your portal or your form,"},{"startTime":1336.972,"endTime":1340.818,"body":"your marketing has succeeded. And you're not done telling"},{"startTime":1340.834,"endTime":1344.14,"body":"your story as we were just talking about, but the marketing part of it's over."},{"startTime":1344.67,"endTime":1348.282,"body":"You got them here to whatever you wanted them to do. Mostly, most people"},{"startTime":1348.336,"endTime":1352.154,"body":"don't just search the Internet for random sites, so"},{"startTime":1352.272,"endTime":1356.03,"body":"they came there because something worked. That's when we want to celebrate. But our"},{"startTime":1356.1,"endTime":1359.854,"body":"audience's journey is not even halfway done at that point. Now"},{"startTime":1359.892,"endTime":1363.246,"body":"they have to figure out, what steps do I take? What do I do next?"},{"startTime":1363.428,"endTime":1366.746,"body":"If you have a form and something goes wrong, well, how do I fix that?"},{"startTime":1366.868,"endTime":1370.658,"body":"And that's another way that we can be really empathetic toward our audience members"},{"startTime":1370.744,"endTime":1374.226,"body":"knowing that they don't know how our site is set up. They don't have the"},{"startTime":1374.248,"endTime":1378.014,"body":"same we are subject matter experts in how our sites are structured."},{"startTime":1378.142,"endTime":1381.654,"body":"They come having not a clue as to what's there,"},{"startTime":1381.852,"endTime":1385.654,"body":"what kind of resources can help them, what steps to take. So"},{"startTime":1385.692,"endTime":1388.946,"body":"after the marketing has succeeded and they are in your digital space and you're"},{"startTime":1389.058,"endTime":1392.906,"body":"celebrating, while you're celebrating, also helping them to take that"},{"startTime":1392.928,"endTime":1395.898,"body":"final action, whatever it is, and guiding them through, because they won't know how to"},{"startTime":1395.904,"endTime":1399.66,"body":"do it without wow. So on your website,"},{"startTime":1400.03,"endTime":1403.646,"body":"you write something that I actually really agree with. So you"},{"startTime":1403.668,"endTime":1407.326,"body":"wrote, people who care about digital content that resonates on a"},{"startTime":1407.348,"endTime":1410.986,"body":"human level are needed now more than ever. I completely agree. It's"},{"startTime":1411.018,"endTime":1414.786,"body":"time to rethink how we approach digital content so that we can"},{"startTime":1414.808,"endTime":1418.162,"body":"make the communications and interactions we all encounter every"},{"startTime":1418.216,"endTime":1421.742,"body":"day less robotic, chaotic and caustic,"},{"startTime":1421.886,"endTime":1425.598,"body":"both to receive and to create. So,"},{"startTime":1425.784,"endTime":1429.222,"body":"the subject of the hour, where does"},{"startTime":1429.356,"endTime":1433.026,"body":"generative AI fit in? Where do Chat Bots and Chat"},{"startTime":1433.058,"endTime":1436.77,"body":"GPT? Where does all of that fit in to digital communications?"},{"startTime":1436.93,"endTime":1440.246,"body":"Right? Because robots can help our lives"},{"startTime":1440.428,"endTime":1443.754,"body":"and they are part of the equation, whether you like it or not. Every time"},{"startTime":1443.792,"endTime":1447.626,"body":"you are assisted in finding something on Google, the robots are"},{"startTime":1447.648,"endTime":1451.386,"body":"helping you. Even as a human centered content strategist,"},{"startTime":1451.418,"endTime":1454.974,"body":"I find myself saying all the time, thank you, robots, that was"},{"startTime":1455.012,"endTime":1458.43,"body":"helpful. The danger is in thinking"},{"startTime":1458.5,"endTime":1462.078,"body":"that, and it's very easy to think this, especially"},{"startTime":1462.244,"endTime":1466.046,"body":"in organization where resources might be limited or"},{"startTime":1466.068,"endTime":1469.762,"body":"tight, but thinking that the AI robots are going to be able to"},{"startTime":1469.816,"endTime":1473.106,"body":"create content on the same level as a human being and that it will"},{"startTime":1473.128,"endTime":1476.802,"body":"resonate with your audience members. And we actually did"},{"startTime":1476.856,"endTime":1480.646,"body":"an experiment in the words first course in community because a lot of us, well,"},{"startTime":1480.668,"endTime":1484.358,"body":"all of us in their communications, and we care deeply about content."},{"startTime":1484.524,"endTime":1488.166,"body":"A lot of writers in there and just a lot"},{"startTime":1488.188,"endTime":1491.226,"body":"of there's been a lot of fear generally, if you hang out on LinkedIn in"},{"startTime":1491.248,"endTime":1494.57,"body":"particular, you'll kind of see all the fear based posts about"},{"startTime":1494.72,"endTime":1498.026,"body":"AI writing. And that may be warranted because there"},{"startTime":1498.048,"endTime":1501.786,"body":"are people saying that it's going to take over writing jobs. But we did"},{"startTime":1501.808,"endTime":1505.514,"body":"an experiment where we had the robots write us a holiday"},{"startTime":1505.562,"endTime":1509.118,"body":"greeting card. The results were not Hallmark worthy, I can tell you"},{"startTime":1509.124,"endTime":1512.926,"body":"that. So that was a low risk way. If you're"},{"startTime":1512.948,"endTime":1516.466,"body":"looking for a low risk way to kind of interact with the robots, that was"},{"startTime":1516.488,"endTime":1520.126,"body":"a good and fun one. But then we had people writing emails"},{"startTime":1520.158,"endTime":1523.938,"body":"themselves for their organizations and then having"},{"startTime":1524.024,"endTime":1527.766,"body":"the AI robots write an email. And the difference is just so stark. If"},{"startTime":1527.788,"endTime":1531.154,"body":"you look at a really highly skilled writer writing"},{"startTime":1531.282,"endTime":1534.04,"body":"content and then have the robots do it,"},{"startTime":1534.89,"endTime":1538.694,"body":"it's night and day. And when it comes to the interactive content,"},{"startTime":1538.892,"endTime":1542.526,"body":"the kind of content that guides people through digital spaces, the robots"},{"startTime":1542.578,"endTime":1546.394,"body":"really can't do that because at that point, they are the writer in the Word"},{"startTime":1546.432,"endTime":1549.962,"body":"document. They are the writer in the Google document. They're not in the layout tool"},{"startTime":1550.016,"endTime":1553.1,"body":"with you. They can't say, oh,"},{"startTime":1553.79,"endTime":1557.486,"body":"that button there, because of everything else that's around it, it should say this."},{"startTime":1557.588,"endTime":1561.246,"body":"That's not a capability that they have. And they don't know your audience. And they"},{"startTime":1561.268,"endTime":1564.642,"body":"don't know your audience. Now, I have found that"},{"startTime":1564.776,"endTime":1568.61,"body":"robots can be I call them the robots. It's lovingly."},{"startTime":1570.39,"endTime":1574.034,"body":"The robots. They can be helpful in taking time off of"},{"startTime":1574.072,"endTime":1577.906,"body":"research. Yes. Well, yeah, but you got to double check it. But yes, you"},{"startTime":1577.928,"endTime":1580.626,"body":"do have to double check it, but if it's just, you know, those research tasks"},{"startTime":1580.658,"endTime":1584.374,"body":"that take so long for your content team, like give me or, or"},{"startTime":1584.412,"endTime":1587.994,"body":"your internal communications team, you know, give me I just need"},{"startTime":1588.032,"endTime":1591.862,"body":"like 25 different, say, digital"},{"startTime":1592.006,"endTime":1595.594,"body":"media outlets. And yes, we have to spend"},{"startTime":1595.632,"endTime":1599.478,"body":"hours finding this on Google, and we don't want the same old results"},{"startTime":1599.494,"endTime":1603.242,"body":"that Google wants to give us every time at the top. I've been using"},{"startTime":1603.376,"endTime":1607.118,"body":"chat GPT in particular for that because it takes hours away. And then if"},{"startTime":1607.124,"endTime":1610.32,"body":"I research one and it's no good, that's okay because"},{"startTime":1610.69,"endTime":1614.366,"body":"it took the robots 1 second to find, instead of me, 45 minutes to"},{"startTime":1614.388,"endTime":1617.934,"body":"dig it up from somewhere on the 10th page of Google. I was so excited"},{"startTime":1617.982,"endTime":1621.47,"body":"to have you on the podcast talking about human centered"},{"startTime":1621.63,"endTime":1625.25,"body":"digital content because of all of the news stories."},{"startTime":1625.67,"endTime":1629.158,"body":"And I think a little maybe the hysteria is kind of"},{"startTime":1629.164,"endTime":1632.534,"body":"warranted because I haven't played with GPT four yet, and I've heard"},{"startTime":1632.572,"endTime":1636.038,"body":"it's some people say it's like seeing God, which I think is a little"},{"startTime":1636.124,"endTime":1638.68,"body":"hyperbolic. But"},{"startTime":1639.85,"endTime":1643.462,"body":"immediately, the very first thing that I did when I played with the"},{"startTime":1643.516,"endTime":1647.238,"body":"original iteration of chat GPT was have it write a fundraising"},{"startTime":1647.254,"endTime":1650.522,"body":"email. That's like the first thing I had to do. My husband had it write,"},{"startTime":1650.576,"endTime":1654.286,"body":"like, weird musicals about metal bands or something. I know he thought it was"},{"startTime":1654.308,"endTime":1658.046,"body":"hilarious. I said, what if we just do something that's actually"},{"startTime":1658.228,"endTime":1661.582,"body":"worthwhile write a blog post about this? And what I saw"},{"startTime":1661.636,"endTime":1665.386,"body":"was it was so generic, it was so cookie"},{"startTime":1665.418,"endTime":1668.946,"body":"cutter, that if you sent that email out to your"},{"startTime":1668.968,"endTime":1672.446,"body":"donors, I mean, you might raise a few dollars, but it's not going to grab"},{"startTime":1672.478,"endTime":1676.226,"body":"attention, it's not going to be interesting. And I've been listening to a lot"},{"startTime":1676.248,"endTime":1679.974,"body":"of content creators talk about it, and they talk about it like you do."},{"startTime":1680.012,"endTime":1683.814,"body":"They say it's all about putting your fingerprint on your"},{"startTime":1683.852,"endTime":1687.526,"body":"content. Like, what are the words that you use? What's the unique spin that you"},{"startTime":1687.548,"endTime":1691.146,"body":"have on things? How can someone know that it's uniquely you?"},{"startTime":1691.248,"endTime":1694.922,"body":"And sure, you can use it to research or do headline research"},{"startTime":1694.976,"endTime":1698.682,"body":"is great. Like, give me 50 email subject lines right now or something."},{"startTime":1698.736,"endTime":1702.122,"body":"That's all very appropriate,"},{"startTime":1702.266,"endTime":1706.0,"body":"but I think that we are actually going to swing back"},{"startTime":1706.45,"endTime":1709.998,"body":"into more human centered content, digital content especially"},{"startTime":1710.164,"endTime":1713.886,"body":"because there's going to be so much garbage out there now. Yes, I think"},{"startTime":1713.908,"endTime":1717.086,"body":"there's a divide coming. You're going to be able to really. Say there's a divide."},{"startTime":1717.278,"endTime":1720.722,"body":"You're going to be able to really start to tell. So one way to keep"},{"startTime":1720.776,"endTime":1724.466,"body":"a high touch connection with your audience is to continue to be"},{"startTime":1724.488,"endTime":1728.146,"body":"that human, genuine, authentic voice for them, and"},{"startTime":1728.168,"endTime":1731.4,"body":"to understand what words they use and to"},{"startTime":1731.77,"endTime":1735.57,"body":"use those words with them, and then to communicate in your own tone and voice."},{"startTime":1735.73,"endTime":1739.19,"body":"Yes. And I will say one other thing that shocked me that I learned recently,"},{"startTime":1739.35,"endTime":1743.066,"body":"is that any content you create. With"},{"startTime":1743.248,"endTime":1746.826,"body":"an artificial intelligence solution is not able to be"},{"startTime":1746.848,"endTime":1750.682,"body":"copyrighted. And there have been conversations about"},{"startTime":1750.816,"endTime":1753.1,"body":"we'll wait and see. But actually"},{"startTime":1754.37,"endTime":1758.126,"body":"I believe it was the Supreme Court has upheld a decision that anything that"},{"startTime":1758.148,"endTime":1761.886,"body":"was created using AI and didn't have human input is"},{"startTime":1761.908,"endTime":1765.246,"body":"not copyrighted because copyright requires human input."},{"startTime":1765.358,"endTime":1768.866,"body":"So I was shocked to learn that that had already kind of been a"},{"startTime":1768.888,"endTime":1772.146,"body":"decision handed down on the highest level. So we'll see the"},{"startTime":1772.168,"endTime":1775.618,"body":"spammers and the content"},{"startTime":1775.704,"endTime":1779.522,"body":"marketers that already have spent 5 seconds writing"},{"startTime":1779.586,"endTime":1783.33,"body":"something that will all just get worse and more generic."},{"startTime":1783.41,"endTime":1786.866,"body":"But the people that stand out I think will do a better job at standing"},{"startTime":1786.898,"endTime":1790.314,"body":"out because of the way that they're communicating and I think that's really"},{"startTime":1790.352,"endTime":1793.654,"body":"important. So what do you see as the future of digital"},{"startTime":1793.702,"endTime":1797.018,"body":"communications? Yes, I think that's a great"},{"startTime":1797.184,"endTime":1800.734,"body":"lead in to that conversation. The junk is going to get"},{"startTime":1800.772,"endTime":1804.446,"body":"junkier and the really human,"},{"startTime":1804.548,"endTime":1808.206,"body":"empathetic, compassionate, authentic communications are going"},{"startTime":1808.228,"endTime":1811.87,"body":"to even get more. So there's also just this"},{"startTime":1811.94,"endTime":1815.534,"body":"interesting trend starting and I know everyone has seen"},{"startTime":1815.572,"endTime":1819.14,"body":"this, where I really think we're going to see more of"},{"startTime":1819.51,"endTime":1823.106,"body":"individuals. We have like a creator culture that I think is only getting"},{"startTime":1823.128,"endTime":1826.422,"body":"started in what we're going to do with it. Individuals creating content,"},{"startTime":1826.476,"endTime":1830.214,"body":"individuals contributing to your digital content in"},{"startTime":1830.252,"endTime":1834.018,"body":"really unique and interesting ways, but then also places popping"},{"startTime":1834.034,"endTime":1837.59,"body":"up where individuals are creating a collaborative space"},{"startTime":1837.66,"endTime":1841.498,"body":"together online. So right now, and don't start asking me to"},{"startTime":1841.504,"endTime":1844.7,"body":"quote about Web 3.0 because I can't. But"},{"startTime":1846.91,"endTime":1850.426,"body":"what I have seen is that right now most of the internet is"},{"startTime":1850.448,"endTime":1854.014,"body":"controlled by organizations and by companies. Most websites are owned by"},{"startTime":1854.052,"endTime":1857.774,"body":"those organizations. But I think what we will see"},{"startTime":1857.812,"endTime":1861.214,"body":"popping up are more of the cooperative style or"},{"startTime":1861.252,"endTime":1864.958,"body":"collaborative style of digital spaces where many"},{"startTime":1865.124,"endTime":1868.738,"body":"people who have just decided to be affiliated and have decided how they're going to"},{"startTime":1868.744,"endTime":1872.494,"body":"add value to this space are doing so and it's not necessarily owned"},{"startTime":1872.542,"endTime":1875.826,"body":"by an organization. I think the closest thing we probably have to that right now"},{"startTime":1875.848,"endTime":1879.49,"body":"is TikTok, which is still of course owned by an organization,"},{"startTime":1879.57,"endTime":1883.094,"body":"but people there decide how they're going to add value and what"},{"startTime":1883.132,"endTime":1886.786,"body":"causes are important to them and what things are important to them and how they're"},{"startTime":1886.818,"endTime":1890.458,"body":"going to operate in that space. And I don't have"},{"startTime":1890.464,"endTime":1894.314,"body":"any direct advice for anyone right now except just to be thinking about"},{"startTime":1894.352,"endTime":1898.042,"body":"that in kind of a curious and exploratory way when you're thinking about your"},{"startTime":1898.096,"endTime":1901.834,"body":"organization's new and innovative and interesting things"},{"startTime":1901.872,"endTime":1905.162,"body":"that you might do in the future. I totally agree. I think the trend"},{"startTime":1905.226,"endTime":1908.974,"body":"also these sites are not exploding as much. But like"},{"startTime":1909.012,"endTime":1912.654,"body":"Mastodon and Post are two social media sites that"},{"startTime":1912.692,"endTime":1915.666,"body":"I've been reading about. I just don't see them"},{"startTime":1915.848,"endTime":1919.458,"body":"overtaking anything like Meta or TikTok. But"},{"startTime":1919.544,"endTime":1923.326,"body":"you're right, TikTok is all about the content creators and influencers"},{"startTime":1923.358,"endTime":1926.2,"body":"and people generating content. It's not about"},{"startTime":1926.73,"endTime":1930.514,"body":"the necessarily big brands or even any kind of recognizable"},{"startTime":1930.562,"endTime":1934.198,"body":"brand. It's really about people talking about things that they want to talk about."},{"startTime":1934.284,"endTime":1937.926,"body":"And it's shockingly democratic in that way."},{"startTime":1937.948,"endTime":1941.006,"body":"But we shall see if TikTok"},{"startTime":1941.138,"endTime":1944.986,"body":"remains to exist in the United States. We don't know. As"},{"startTime":1945.008,"endTime":1948.634,"body":"of this recording, TikTok might be banned. I don't know. That's right. Not"},{"startTime":1948.672,"endTime":1952.474,"body":"looking good. It is an interesting perspective on the humanness of digital"},{"startTime":1952.522,"endTime":1955.646,"body":"content, too. So it's something I'm keeping my eye on, for sure."},{"startTime":1955.828,"endTime":1959.63,"body":"Absolutely. So my last question is for a small"},{"startTime":1959.7,"endTime":1963.474,"body":"nonprofit that is listening to this and"},{"startTime":1963.512,"endTime":1966.498,"body":"they really are looking at their content"},{"startTime":1966.584,"endTime":1969.97,"body":"strategy, they want it to be more human"},{"startTime":1970.04,"endTime":1973.682,"body":"centered. What is maybe one tweak that a small"},{"startTime":1973.736,"endTime":1977.446,"body":"nonprofit can employ sort of right away that's going to get them on"},{"startTime":1977.468,"endTime":1981.094,"body":"the right trajectory. Yeah, absolutely. So my"},{"startTime":1981.132,"endTime":1984.534,"body":"number one for that is always to talk to people from"},{"startTime":1984.572,"endTime":1988.082,"body":"your audience, representative, real members of your audience."},{"startTime":1988.146,"endTime":1991.734,"body":"And it doesn't have to be any kind of official, time"},{"startTime":1991.772,"endTime":1994.966,"body":"consuming you can do this with zero budget. It doesn't have to be a big"},{"startTime":1994.988,"endTime":1998.55,"body":"research endeavor. You can literally grab family members"},{"startTime":1998.62,"endTime":2001.854,"body":"count, colleagues count, as long as they're not in your project team, because your project"},{"startTime":2001.892,"endTime":2005.726,"body":"team knows too much, just like you do. Friends count as long as they're part"},{"startTime":2005.748,"endTime":2009.406,"body":"of your representative audience. And identify a few things that you want your"},{"startTime":2009.428,"endTime":2012.238,"body":"site to be able to help them do if it's a website. Or identify a"},{"startTime":2012.244,"endTime":2016.066,"body":"few things that you want to resonate with them from social media or an"},{"startTime":2016.088,"endTime":2019.682,"body":"email campaign, a whole campaign, or just one"},{"startTime":2019.736,"endTime":2023.38,"body":"email and talk to them about it. Have them"},{"startTime":2023.75,"endTime":2027.49,"body":"respond. Give them space to respond. Don't give them the answers. Have them"},{"startTime":2027.56,"endTime":2031.27,"body":"talk to you. Just by engaging with them, even in a very"},{"startTime":2031.34,"endTime":2035.126,"body":"kind of non official, ad hoc kind of way, you're going to"},{"startTime":2035.148,"endTime":2038.68,"body":"learn a lot of things that you just because"},{"startTime":2039.21,"endTime":2042.73,"body":"we are all stuck inside our own worldview,"},{"startTime":2043.63,"endTime":2046.842,"body":"you're going to learn a lot of things that they're thinking about that you probably"},{"startTime":2046.896,"endTime":2050.166,"body":"have never thought about before. And that alone will"},{"startTime":2050.288,"endTime":2053.854,"body":"boost your digital experiences for your"},{"startTime":2053.892,"endTime":2057.15,"body":"audience's. Heads and shoulders."},{"startTime":2057.81,"endTime":2061.566,"body":"Heads and shoulders over even other bigger companies that don't do that. They've never"},{"startTime":2061.588,"endTime":2064.386,"body":"talked to a single one of their audience members. So that's always my number one"},{"startTime":2064.408,"endTime":2068.066,"body":"piece of advice. Wonderful. I love that. Bailey, thank"},{"startTime":2068.088,"endTime":2071.602,"body":"you so much. Where can people find you and learn"},{"startTime":2071.656,"endTime":2075.202,"body":"more about you and learn more about the Words"},{"startTime":2075.256,"endTime":2079.09,"body":"First community? Yeah. So the main words first website"},{"startTime":2079.16,"endTime":2082.758,"body":"is wordsfirstcontent.com. That is where"},{"startTime":2082.844,"endTime":2086.566,"body":"I have a free library of advice, information,"},{"startTime":2086.668,"endTime":2090.17,"body":"insights about content strategy there for whoever it may help."},{"startTime":2090.32,"endTime":2094.138,"body":"And it's also where anybody who is interested in coaching, training,"},{"startTime":2094.224,"endTime":2098.042,"body":"workshops, that kind of thing, for organizations and leadership can go."},{"startTime":2098.096,"endTime":2101.498,"body":"And then the membership side of the business"},{"startTime":2101.584,"endTime":2105.374,"body":"is@wordsfirstcommunity.com and that's all"},{"startTime":2105.412,"endTime":2109.23,"body":"for people who are interested in joining others"},{"startTime":2109.3,"endTime":2112.962,"body":"who are interested in content, interested in kind of the future of this human"},{"startTime":2113.016,"endTime":2116.498,"body":"centered content. Learning together, evolving together."},{"startTime":2116.664,"endTime":2120.082,"body":"And then online, I am at Words. First"},{"startTime":2120.136,"endTime":2123.614,"body":"content is me on Instagram and on LinkedIn."},{"startTime":2123.742,"endTime":2127.414,"body":"Fantastic. And I'll put all of that in the show notes and just"},{"startTime":2127.452,"endTime":2130.594,"body":"thank you so much. This was such a fantastic and timely"},{"startTime":2130.722,"endTime":2134.038,"body":"topic. As we listen to the headlines and."},{"startTime":2134.124,"endTime":2137.846,"body":"See where content marketing could or could. Go, I"},{"startTime":2137.868,"endTime":2141.386,"body":"think, like you said, we're at the precipice of a divide and"},{"startTime":2141.488,"endTime":2145.226,"body":"it's really important to figure out where we stand and"},{"startTime":2145.328,"endTime":2149.162,"body":"which sort of path we're going to take. And I think human"},{"startTime":2149.216,"endTime":2152.734,"body":"centered digital content is the way to go. So thanks, Bailey, for being"},{"startTime":2152.772,"endTime":2156.606,"body":"here. Thank you. This has been really great. I really have enjoyed it. Thanks so"},{"startTime":2156.628,"endTime":2157.2,"body":"much."},{"startTime":2163.65,"endTime":2167.378,"body":"Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show"},{"startTime":2167.464,"endTime":2171.102,"body":"and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed"},{"startTime":2171.166,"endTime":2174.926,"body":"today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite"},{"startTime":2174.958,"endTime":2178.806,"body":"podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they"},{"startTime":2178.828,"endTime":2182.294,"body":"come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review"},{"startTime":2182.412,"endTime":2186.23,"body":"because this tells other people that my podcast is. Worth"},{"startTime":2186.3,"endTime":2190.082,"body":"listening to, and then me and. My guests can reach even more earbuds"},{"startTime":2190.146,"endTime":2193.906,"body":"and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll"},{"startTime":2193.938,"endTime":2197.686,"body":"be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can"},{"startTime":2197.708,"endTime":2201.438,"body":"find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell 77."},{"startTime":2201.604,"endTime":2204.81,"body":"Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn."}]}