How to Work with Online Influencers to Create Social Change with Ashwath Narayanan

Today, we're diving deep into the intersection of nonprofits and the digital influence world. Joining us is the innovative Ashwath Narayanan, CEO of Social Currant, who is championing a groundbreaking approach to amplifying social causes. Ashwath recognized a crucial gap in the way nonprofits connect with digital-savvy youth and decided to bridge it with an incredible platform that teams up nonprofit missions with the dynamic power of content creators and influencers.

About Ashwath Narayanan

Ashwath is the founder and CEO of Social Currant, an emerging platform that aims to help passionate creators pair with nonprofits to help spread awareness and impact. They specialize in connecting nonprofit groups to influencers on TikTok, Instagram (focusing on its TikTok-like Reels video feature) and other social media platforms.

About Social Currant

Matching nonprofits, impact organizations (b-corps, startups) & CSR initiatives with the right creators to run influencer marketing campaigns. Their platform analyzes creators and ensures organizations work with the right fit.

Read article: On Tiktok, Knitting, Rapping, and Promoting the Child Tax Credit

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Transcript

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Are you heading into 2024 with fundraising tools that make your job easier? Today's sponsor, QGive, can help over 20,000 Fundraisers trust Qgive to help them raise more money and improve their fundraising events. To learn more, just visit WW dot jcsocialmarketing.com qgive. That is JC Slash QGIV to get a custom walkthrough of the platform and a free this is my fundraising shirt T shirt. Just go to forward Slash Qgive. Now on to the show. Hello and welcome to NonproFit NATION. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit Nation Podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello. Hi Everyone. Welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell. The question that we're going to answer today, how to work with online influencers to create social change. Now we know, or maybe you've heard, that digital creators and influencers are the main source of trusted information for especially younger generations who grew up on social media platforms. And today I have a very special guest. We're going to talk all about how to reach younger generations, how to engage online influencers, how to create a significant and effective program for your organization, and more importantly, sort of why to do it and where to start. So my guest today is Ashwath Narayainen. And Ashwath, please correct me if I mispronounced your name, the founder and CEO of Social Current, which is pretty an amazing platform. It's an emerging platform that helps to really get passionate creators paired with nonprofits to help spread awareness and impact. They specialize in connecting nonprofit groups to influencers on TikTok, Instagram, focusing on the reels, video feature, and other social media platforms. And Ashwath, we met through a mutual friend, Tim Sarantonio, and he was just really fascinated with the company that you launched and sort of your background. So let's talk about how you launched this particular company. You launched it in September 2020, and you say on your website it was after noticing that advocacy organizations were often trying to figure out how to reach young people like you. So tell me about your origin story. Happy to. And thank you so much for having me. It's always a really fun time when I get to talk about nonprofits, creators, influencers, all my favorite stuff. So just sort of taking a step back. I grew up in India and moved to the US for college. I moved to DC and GW for college. And DC being DC, I was thrust into a lot of social impact spaces, a lot of nonprofit spaces, and I had a little bit of a marketing background. And so I was helping a lot of nonprofits, social impact orgs, figure out how to do marketing, figure out how to get on TikTok and reels and all these platforms, and reach young people more. And a lot of the times, I was realizing that there were no other young people in those rooms, none that looked like me, and definitely no young people making decisions about how to reach young people, which sort of didn't make any sense to me. And so I was like, I'm going to start an agency. I'm going to try to hire more young people. We're going to sort of have a decision making role at this table and do good work for good people. And so social current was born out of that. And we were doing a little bit of everything. We were doing social media, graphic design, website, like, some stuff we shouldn't have been doing, all for social impact organizations, sort of the classic startup journey. And there's this random website where you can sign up and you can list your agency, and it's going to be great, and clients can reach out. We listed ourselves in this nonprofit called Community Change. Reached out. They're a grassroots nonprofit. They've been around for over 50 years. They were trying to get information about the child tax credit, which was historic legislation around giving parents resources. And so they were trying to get information out of DC, out of traditional media, into the communities they were trying to reach on TikTok and on Instagram. And at the same time, they were also trying to figure out how they could give those communities a seat at the table when communicating that info, how they could represent those voices when reaching out to their communities. And so at that time, we were like, hey, this sounds like a really cool campaign. What if we just found a bunch of creators on TikTok and Instagram? And what if we just paid them to talk about this work? It was a test. We didn't know how it go, but we helped them find about 15 creators. Every single one of those creators had either directly gotten their child tax credit themselves or were part of families that got it. And so all they did was like, they went on social media and they said, hey, this is what I use the child tax credit for. I used it to buy groceries. I used it for childcare. They just literally just said, hey, this is what it was used for. And if you want more information, go to this website. We reached about 400,000 people in 24 hours and sent over 10,000 people to the White House's website with resources on the tax credit. And we were like, holy shit, this really works. And I think sort of for us, it was like a game changer, because we not only got to pay people, we got to pay people with lived experiences. We got to have a really outsized impact on community changes work. And then we also got to have fun looking at TikTok content while doing this campaign. And so we were like, we're going to stop doing all of the other random stuff we're doing, and we're going to just do creator work for advocacy nonprofits and impact organizations. And so over the next two years, we'd go on to help over 50 nonprofits work with over 1500 creators and pay out over $2 million to creators around causes they care about, and reach hundreds of millions in the process. Everything from getting out the vote to campaigns around immigration, social justice, childcare, health care, climate, all sorts of work really focused on how we could find people from within the communities these nonprofits we're trying to reach, and then just pay them to reach their communities instead of giving your money to a platform or something else. Out of that social current was born as an agency. Along the way, we discovered what a lot of people discover. Working with creators is a lot of steps. There's contracts and payments and finding the creators and categorizing them everywhere. And we were like, there has to be tech for the nonprofit space that does this. There was a lot of for profit tech. There was a lot of tech that is easy to use if you're an e commerce company or shipping people products. But for nonprofits, there was nothing that let you find someone that aligned with your cause. And so we were like, we're going to build that. And so that's what we are doing. We're building a tech platform that matches nonprofits impact words with creators on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, that share their values. So, a long winded story, but I think we basically help you find creators that align with you. So I have a lot of questions that I think my audience would be asking. Number one, you use the word creator, and I know we've heard a lot about the creator economy. So what is a creator? And then is a creator similar to an influencer? Are they the same thing? It's a great question. I think there's a little bit of difference. I think we often use it interchangeably just because a lot of influencers prefer the word creator, because influencer sounds a little weird. But I think the main thing is creators or influencers are people who create content on a regular basis on social media, and then for us, for our purposes, they're also people that create content with a mid to large audience that is consuming their content regularly because they engage with it. And I think where creator starts changing into influencer is when influencer is someone who can actually make their audience take action and do something, versus creator is simply creating content that engages their audience. And there is a little bit of difference between the two, because for a creator, it might be a little hard to get their audiences sign a petition or buy something, versus an influencer does influence someone's decision making process. So I think that's where it becomes a little different. But they do merge a little bit. But, yeah, mostly they're people who create content to an audience. And why is it so powerful? Why is influencer marketing something? I think it's been around for a while, but it's now kind of really reaching the pinnacle of potential, especially for nonprofits. What are some of the reasons that it's so powerful? Yeah, I was doing a panel the other day, and they asked me to sort of prepare trends in youth consumption. And so I was like, I'll just talk about the three things I said then. The first one is, we all know there's been sort of a decline in trust of institutions like people, especially young people. But just generally, people trust institutions less. But that decline has also been supported by an increase in trust in people. So a lot of people trust their friends. They trust the people around them. They trust personalities. And so I think that's one reason why influencers, or creators or trusted messengers is growing. And the nonprofit space is just coming into this. But the brand space has been investing in creators and trusted messengers for the last ten years. I think in 2023, influencer marketing is going to become like a $30 billion industry. And so it's really growing. And it was two or $3,000,000,000.05 or six years ago, I think. And then I think the second one is there's been a shift in sort of all the different content formats and all the different ways you can communicate with people. And all of those ways are really hard to keep up with if you're a brand. For example, over the last two years, we've seen TikTok come out with short form video, Instagram come out with short form video, YouTube come out with short form video. But then you also have Instagram channels and WhatsApp channels and all these different ways of communicating with audiences. And it can be really hard to keep up with these different methods. And so investing in creators or influencers is an easy way to keep up with them, because the creators are always at the forefront of these social media platforms. They're creating content in different ways. And so instead of you trying to build out your presence all over again, you can just work with someone who's already built them out and work with their audience to reach. So I think that's another sort of larger trend we're seeing. Then I think the final one is, like everyone, especially young people, can skip ads. It is very easy to look at something and skip it. It is very easy. And they know ads better than anyone else on the planet. They can smell an ad a mile away. Exactly. And so it's super easy to sort of tune out a lot of the ways people are trying to sell you something, which has also resulted in a lot of brands and organizations investing in content and entertaining their audiences. Like, you have movies like Barbie and Lego movies, the Lego Movie, which are basically like massive ads for toy companies, but Barbie did over a billion. Like, it was a cultural phenomenon. And I think that's an important sort of shift we're seeing, where people understand brands and nonprofits need to invest in content and entertainment and value to their audience. And a lot of times, creators are the ones doing this already. And so it's easier to work with them to reach their audience around a skit about climate or something like that. And so I think those three trends sort of like decline in trust of media institutions. So many content formats, and then skippable ads, I think, has resulted in influencer marketing growing. But I think this isn't a new concept. Influencers have always existed. Whether it was someone in your community, whether it's someone on TV, and now it's someone on TikTok, I think it's just growing, and people are understanding the importance of it more, especially in the nonprofit space. I was just watching on Apple TV, the supermodels. It's about Linda Evangelista, Cindy Crawford, Christy Charlington, and Naomi Campbell in the 90s. Like, they're the original influencers, really. There was no Internet. But anytime they wore anything, anytime they drank a soda, anytime they did anything, it became like a huge cultural phenomenon. So I agree, it's just a little bit more strategic now, and people are definitely paying attention now. And I think nonprofits do need to get on board with this. Another important piece that I want to pull out from what you just said is that organizations come to me all the time, and they always say, we want to reach new audiences, we want to reach younger audiences, but they mean we want to force our message onto them, either with ads or we want to somehow get them onto our Facebook page, which, as we know, is not going to happen. So with influencer marketing, you don't have to have a TikTok account as a nonprofit. You can just send people. You don't even have to send people to your website, but you can still raise awareness and really create a lot of excitement around what you're doing by having someone who already has an audience on TikTok talk about you. And that's the kind of disconnect that I think nonprofits are feeling. They think, oh, how do we get people to our accounts to follow us, to listen to us, when it really should be reaching new people? The only way to reach new people is to get in front of other people's audiences, people that have brought up that trust. Do you find that sort of disconnect as well? 100%. And I think when, a lot of times when nonprofits come to us and want to work with creators, it's sort of like, how can I make this all about me? I think the sort of best nonprofits understand the importance of narrative change. They understand the importance of persuasion around an issue. And so when they're partnering with the creator, they're creating broader awareness about the issue, or a specific bill or getting out the vote, or even the issue the nonprofit is working on. And then they'll subtly drive people to take action in some shape or form. But it won't be like, hey, follow this nonprofit on social media, because it's more like, how do you start a conversation with the creator's audience around your issue and then move them along the way? I think people expect to go from zero to 100 within sponsor all the time, but this is the first time they're engaging with their issue. They're not going to donate tomorrow. Some might, but you also want to bring the people that were never heard about you to like, okay, now they're interested. Now they're interested to. Now I might volunteer. Now I might volunteer to donate. So it's like a ladder of engagement. You can't go from step one to step ten immediately, I think, which is important for nonprofits to know. That's such a good point. So this brings me to another important question. How do nonprofits find influencers to work with? And maybe you can talk a little bit about how social current does it. But say, I'm listening to this, and I think, oh, this is really interesting. What's the first step? And the other piece of this question, how do we know they're going to align with our mission and values? So one, you can work with us. Our entire platform is basically built so that you sign up, we match you with creators that are mission aligned. We're going and vetting them. We're going and asking them the issues they care about, and then we bring them to you. So that's one way you can do it, the other way, and this is how we find creators to bring onto our platform, is try to understand the communities you're trying to reach, maybe ask them who they follow, who they engage with, and then go reach out to them. You can go on TikTok, you can search different hashtags. TikTok and YouTube have the best search filters, better than Instagram even to find creators. If you're a climate nonprofit, you can go search climate on TikTok and you can find a list of the top hundred videos. You can then see who the creators are. You can then scroll through their content, see if they make sense. They mostly have an email in their bio. Email them, reach out and say, hey, I'm looking to do this work. Would you be interested in having a conversation around it, or would you be interested in considering this? Maybe hop on a call if you don't have time. Let them have an email conversation. Send them a brief, get working. I don't think you have to start with 100. You can start with just one creator. There's nothing too little in the influencer space. You can start with one creator and still have an impact and also understand what this work looks like. I would just identify the creators that are reaching your communities, or even from your communities, and just reach out to them to see if they'd be interested in collaborating. And how can we? Because we like to be in control of every little thing. What is your advice to a nonprofit executive that's really worried about not being able to control the message and not being able to control the Creator because we can't? Yeah, I mean, I think about this a lot, and I think the one thing I say to folks is like, these people have millions of followers or hundreds of thousands of followers. And if you want to control the message, do it to your 100 followers. But if you want to invest in this creator, if you want to invest in them, trust them. Trust their ability to reach an audience, because they were able to build that large audience that a lot of nonprofits don't have. And so it's really important to understand who has the expertise here and what expertise. So the Creator does have the distribution expertise, and often the lived experience expertise. But the nonprofit does have an equally important expertise, which is the policy, the research, the resources. And so both of these are equally important. But the nonprofit shouldn't be telling the creator to do a 15 2nd versus a 32nd video, but they should be telling the creator about specific facts or if there's misinformation in the video. And so I think it's important to maintain both these levels of expertise, and so you can, to some extent, control the message in terms of making sure it's accurate and factual, but you can control how that message is distributed and how it's represented, because that is the creator's experience, and that is how the Creator creates content. So it's important to sort of figure out what your nonprofit is good at and stick to that, and then let the creator do what they're good at. And together is how it'll be successful. Right. That is just so hard. I think that's probably the hardest piece. I work with Boston Public Schools on a campaign to encourage high school students to register for the free application for Federal Student aid. And they want to reach students, but they're only on Facebook. So I had to explain to them, we probably need to work with students to get the word out. But then they were really worried that they couldn't 100% control the message. So it's really like, well, did you want to really get the word out in an authentic way, student to student, or do you want to just post on Facebook to crickets? I mean, there's really the choices that you do have to make here. So you built one of the largest and most impactful TikTok campaigns in the nation. 75 creators recruited, hired, and trained. 90% young people of color. 127 produced videos about policy and politics that reached 11.5 million views and 1.5 million engagements. You really developed a new strategy for decentralized campaigns. So tell me about this campaign and what were your biggest takeaways? Yeah, so I think this campaign was sort of, like, across a series of work. So, like I mentioned, we'd done that work on child tax credit, and we're figuring out how we could expand this. In 2022 was the election year, and so we had a number of clients that were doing a lot of electoral work. And so they came to us, and we sat down with them, and we tried to figure out how we can reach young people where they are and how we can reach them through formats that are accessible. So TikTok and Instagram videos and YouTube shorts and all these things. And so a lot of this campaign came from our success on the Child Tax credit campaign and how we could replicate that at a larger scale to increase youth turnout. And obviously, we weren't the only people that did this work to increase youth turnout. But you can see that young people are voting at historic levels in 2018 and in 2020 and in 2022. And our goal is to continue that trend and be a small part of that through the influencer work, through reminders, every state has a different voter registration reminder, every state has a different. There's so many dates that are different across local elections, around federal elections. And so if we can provide simple information on the Pennsylvania election coming up, it'll be so important to allow people to know, okay, I just have to send my ballot in. And so that was really the driving force. But also, another thing was a lot of our work is how we can expand who gets to be in the advocacy space. Like, a lot of times, only certain types of people are allowed to be in the nonprofit space. And we want to expand that through creator work. We want to give more paid opportunities to people that are outside of advocacy or outside of nonprofits to share their lived experience around issues. So that was also another sort of driving force. I think the big takeaways for us through that entire campaign was so many people have so many stories around nonprofits, and you're never going to know them unless you ask one of the creators we worked with. He's a full time caregiver, and so he creates caregiving content, taking care of his grandma on TikTok, and he's, like, huge, and he doesn't do any issue focused content, but obviously, there is, like, a social impact lens to it. But we reached out and we were sort of talking to him about voting, and turns out his grandma, when she was growing up, she was a vote teller back home in the Philippines. And so voting was super important to her. And so he connected that to why this was important to him and did a video just talking about it and reached over a million people. That story, we had no idea. He had never shared it. And so it's important. One of the big takeaways is ask people that you're working with the stories they have and if they're comfortable sharing it, because a lot of times, no one is asking them to share it. And if you ask them, maybe they'll share it again. Maybe they'll continue engaging people, because a lot of creators, a lot of people don't think they're experts to talk about an issue. And so if you arm them with the resources and ask them, they will. And so I think that was the big takeaways. Like, we can ask people to talk about impact, and we should be asking more people that aren't talking about impact to talk about impact. But it was obviously one of the best campaigns we run. It was so much fun. We got to see over 500 pieces of content from creators that was super creative. And so, yeah, I think ask people what stories they have around issues. I love that you just don't know the assets that you have until you ask. And that also really dispels a myth that, unfortunately, I do think a lot of people still have about Instagram and TikTok, that it's just sharing challenges and dances, which, as we know, is not true. But there is still, like, if you ask my mom, probably, sorry, mom, I'm sure she would say, oh, TikTok. It's just all like, silly dances, but it's really not. There's a whole activist community and advocacy community on there. So what are you working on, if you can tell us to increase turnout in the 2024 election? I think 2022 was a good sort of, like, starter for us and for the general space as a whole. Just sort of look at what creator work can look like. I think we're really excited about 2024 because I think for the first time, we're going to see the real investment in creators. Like in politics, $9 billion is spent on ads, TV, digital, and so we want to see some percentage shift or even sort of be created that goes into creators, that goes into people. And so we're really excited about 2024. I think a few of the strategies we're experimenting with is sort of how you can do, like, a local creator strategy, because there's so many creators that are local to specific cities or specific states. And so how you can do, like, a local creator strategy. Another thing we're sort of big on is how we can expand, how we get information to creators. So can we send them resources on different issues so that they can train up on them. Can we give them an easy way to access all the dates that are there? Like, how can we create sort of a database of knowledge and resources that any creator can come and access it and be equipped to talk to it? Because a lot of times, people don't talk about things because they don't feel like they're equipped to talk about them. And if we can give them all the resources possible, maybe we'll get more people talking about these issues. And so that's a big thing for us, is how can we create resources for creators to explore issues they care about leading up to 2024? Love that. Would the resources be so they'd be very specific to the particular campaign. Do you have resources on your website for nonprofits and creators? Our goal is essentially to build out, like, a resource library for issues. Obviously, we'll continue doing the campaign stuff and the messaging briefs for clients, but we also want to have a space where if someone wanted to explore things around animal rights, they could go and they could see a bunch of information on it. They could find nonprofits they can support, like just the library. And we're still figuring out whether that's on our website or where that is. But our goal is we want to partner with a bunch of nonprofits to build those resources, because the nonprofits are the experts, and then provide them to creators for free so that they can access all this and do with it what they want. That's awesome. Wow. That's really great. Let's talk about getting buy in for a minute. So you were interviewed in the New York Times. I'll link to the article in the show notes, and you said that influencer marketing is more relevant to young people and people of color than traditional paid media efforts. Now, I think a lot of nonprofits want to be relevant to young people and people of color and more diverse populations than maybe they had been targeting before. But how can we convince our boards and our supervisors to let us experiment with influencer marketing when nonprofits, unfortunately, are so wedded to the status quo? What is your advice there? I think part of it's like a statistics sort of conversation. There's so many statistics around how 70% of young people have bought something based on a creator's recommendation in the last year, or 70% of all people have bought something based on an influencer's recommendation in the last year. And so there's a lot of data in the brand space that you can look at. But I think the main sort of thing that we stress is start with working with a creator, you don't have to spend all your money on a creator strategy. You can start by exploring what this looks like and then you can sort of measure success. I think a lot of people assume they have to spend millions of dollars in a creator strategy. You can start small. You don't have to start with 100 creators. You can start with one from your community and explore the impact and then you'll really understand it. For us, a lot of our clients have started with small scale and now they're doing huge programs. And the best way to explain this is to show what creator work can look like, because we found that once leadership sees it, once executives see it, it helps. But right now it can be a little hard to imagine it. Look at the brand stats and how brands are doing this. Try to do a small test, and then there's also other tools you can build in. Like you can do message testing to show whether a creator's video changes narrative on an issue or not. You can do things like that. I also think fundamentally, nonprofits goals are to impact people. And I think the work with creators is also impactful because you're impacting this creator and their audience and you're bringing them into your work. And I think that doesn't get measured enough versus when you're spending on Meta or Google, it goes back to meta, but when you're spending a creator, it goes to a real person who's then bought into your work. But also they got paid to do impact work, which is so important because the more people, the more talent we have in the nonprofit space, the better our world is. Now, I know that not every nonprofit pays influencers, so I know best friends animal society just strictly does not pay influencers. They find them, I'm not sure, but they offer to send them swag and they give them a trip to see their amazing know in middle America. That's this amazing place where all these animals are rescued. So in a way there's benefits, but what are some other benefits that we can give to creators? How can we deepen this relationship with them? Yeah, I think access is like a huge thing. So obviously the White House does a lot of creator work, and so obviously they can invite people to the White House and they can build strong relationships. That's prestige, and that's exactly. But thinking about what you have that creators don't have, that you can give access to, a lot of times that can mean resources on your team. If you notice, a creator talks about your issue and does well researched videos, maybe they need some help with research. Maybe you reach out and say, hey, I have a research director on my team. Next time you're doing a video, if you need facts and resourcEs, reach out and we'll help you. Think about all the stuff you have that you can help creators with. Maybe it's like time with your board. Maybe it's like time with specific people and experts that you have. Think about what you can give creators access to to make their life easier, not harder. And that way you can sort of deepen the relationship. We have creators that started out as doing sponsored content. Now they're on the leadership council of a nonprofit because they're so passionate about the work. And then they're also pitching to press and they're doing all this stuff. But don't start by asking for all of that stuff. Start by asking for something small and then build over time. Very much like how you would engage volunteers. You're not going to ask them to devote their entire life to you immediately. You start slow. You ask them to maybe show up at an event. Then you ask them to come for a day event or whatever. Think about it as, again, a ladder of engagement where you start small and deepen over time. And we think about that with our donors, too. We shouldn't really go from zero to 60 when we're engaging a donor. It's really important to understand where they are, like on the ladder of engagement and do everything we can to deepen the relationship, cultivate the relationship. Because what I think influencer marketing, this is someone you could work with every year. This is someone you could work with constantly, all the time. It's not like a transactional experience. Do you find that these influencer relationships, do they last longer? Are they one offs or they tend to last a little bit longer? I think it all depends on what. You put into it and the campaign, too, because if it's an election, obviously it might end, right? I think they can definitely last longer. It all depends on what the goal is. So if your goal with working with the creators is to get really good content that you want to run in ads, it's okay. If that doesn't last super long. If the goal is to get content, you do that and you pay the creator and it's a win win. If your goal is to engage the stakeholder and bring someone into your organization, definitely want to make it last longer. So it depends. I don't think there's anything wrong with either. It just depends on what your goal is like. If your goal is to build a long lasting relationship. Don't make it super. Just transaction, transaction, transaction. Like build the deeper relationship. But if you want something immediately, you can also go to a creator for that. And very much like how you would think about working with a designer, a contractor, like things like that. That is also possible. But I think more often than not, we see nonprofits want to build long term relationships with the creators because why wouldn't you want to build a long term relationship with a creator that has access to an audience that could potentially care about you? And so it's important to think about how you can give them value, how you can compensate them for their time. All of that, too. Do you have any favorite creators in this space? Or is that like choosing between your mean. So we don't directly represent any creators, so we get to work with so many. I think the creator I mentioned who's like a caregiving creator, his name's Chris. At Chris Punselin on TikTok, he's got awesome engagement and he does a lot of caregiving work. So he's definitely like a really cool creator. There's this creator. Consciously, he does a lot of work around social justice, and he does a lot of content on Instagram and TikTok, so he's also awesome. There's so many creators, and maybe I can send you a few links to include in the show notes because there's so many people doing this work that you should all work with. Please do also to give people an idea of what it means. Exactly. I'll send some content examples too, so people can see what this can look like. Love it. I'll list all of it in the show notes. Ashwa, thank you so much. Where can people connect with you? Where can they find out more about you and social current? THank you for having me again. This has been super awesome. You can find us at SocialCurrent, Socialcurrant, on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, anywhere, and then you can find me on LinkedIn. That's where I lie most of the time. Yes. Fantastic. And I put everything in the show notes. This is just really wonderful. I'm so excited to see all this content that's going to be created, especially around the elections. So important. But yeah, I'd love to have you back after and see what happens and kind of do like a recap. That would be awesome. I would be glad to be back. Great. All right. Thank you so much again for being here. Thanks so much. Take care. Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review, because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to, and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell, 77. Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn. You close.