Start Attracting (Not Chasing) The Right Donors with Brooke Richie-Babbage

Fundraising does not have to feel like throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping for the best.

My guest this week is going to help us finally take the guesswork out of finding, cultivating & activating new donors — in proven and actionable ways.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How to Attract New Funders And Donors to Fuel Your Growth
• How to fund growth 
• How to Mobilize your board to be *real* ambassadors and meaningful thought partners to you and your team 
• How to attract (instead of chasing!) increased revenue by deepening your thought leadership and expanding your network

About Brooke Richie-Babbage

Brooke Richie-Babbage has spent the past 23 years working as a nonprofit leader and social entrepreneur.  She is the host of the Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast, and the founder and CEO of Bending Arc, a social impact strategy & digital content agency that partners with non-profit leaders and philanthropic institutions around the country to support the launch and sustainable growth of high-impact nonprofits.

Connect with Richie on LinkedIn
Visit Richie's website
Tune in on The Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast

Email Brooke at: brooke@brookerichiebabbage.com

Take my free masterclass: 3 Must-Have Elements of Social Media Content that Converts

Transcript

0:00

You. This show is sponsored by Bloomerang, a solution that helps nonprofits like Shower up, which is a nonprofit providing mobile showers and personal care for those experiencing homelessness to efficiently manage their volunteers and donors in one place. And thanks to Bloomerang, Shower up increased. Their volunteer signups by 60% and first. Time donors by making it easy to. Give right on their site. Showerup's executive director, Paul Schmidt said Bloomering is an ideal marriage of volunteer and donor management. The deeper we get into it, the. More we love it. And if you want to see how. Showerup easily manages their volunteers and donors. With Bloomerang, just go to jcsocialmarketing.com bloomerang. That's jcsocialmarketing.com bloomerang. Or visit the link in the show. Notes to learn more. All right, let's get to the show. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello. Hi, everyone. Welcome, or welcome back to the Nonprofit Nation podcast. So excited to be here with you today. Wherever you're listening from, I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and the topic of conversation today, how to start attracting and not chasing the right donors. And it might sound like a dating show, but fundraising does not have to feel like throwing spaghetti against the wall and hoping for the best. And my guest this week is going to help us finally take the guesswork out of finding, cultivating, and activating new donors in proven and actionable ways. Now I'd like to welcome Brooke Richie Babbage. Brooke has spent the past 23 years working as a nonprofit leader and social entrepreneur. She's the host of the nonprofit mastermind podcast and the founder and CEO of Bending Arc, a social impact strategy and digital content agency that partners with nonprofit leaders and philanthropic institutions around the country to support the launch and sustainable growth of high impact nonprofits. And, Brooke, we were just saying that it's so crazy that we hadn't met yet. So welcome to the podcast. Yes, I'm really excited to be here. It's going to be a great conversation. Yes. So your bio is incredible and you've done so many things, but you've spent the last 23 years working as a lawyer, a nonprofit leader, and a social entrepreneur. You've founded and led multiple successful organizations and initiatives, and you're a visiting lecturer and featured speaker at numerous law schools. So how did you get started in your current focus with nonprofit fundraising? Absolutely. So, actually, all of those things you mentioned are related. I have always wanted to be in the nonprofit sector. It's been in my blood since I was ten. I went to my local community center in Michigan and pitched a project to a theater program for kids. So I've always wanted to do social impact work. I would say that my current work with fundraising actually started when I was in law school and graduate school at Harvard. I started a nonprofit or an organization there with another friend named Brooke. Actually, we always laughed. I'm from Birmingham, Michigan. She's from Birmingham, Alabama. So we were the two Brooks from Birmingham. That's funny. We found each other in Boston, of all places. But we started an education equity organization that bridged the gap between clinical work in the law school, and I was also in graduate school at the Kennedy school. So policy work. And we found ourselves in this position where we had to raise money from professors and grant students. Oh, my right. To support this educational equity project. And I learned something that actually has served me, and that goes to the core of what we're talking about today. It showed me that mission is first and not the mission statement that we all spend so much time perfecting, but what you do, the why, the impact you are trying to have and the change you're trying to create in the world. When you lead with that, everything is about finding the people who care as passionately about that as you do. And so that's what we learned in law school, that when we found students who didn't have any money, supposedly everyone says, oh, students don't have any money. When you find people who are passionate about what you're doing, they will help you bring resources into your organization. Exactly. No, I love that. I think that is such an important point because we tend to rule out students. And I never told you that I am from Boston. I went to Boston University. So very familiar with Harvard, but that is so true. We tend to rule out these entire groups of people because we say, oh, they don't have money. And first of all, what does that mean? Like, $10 is important, $5 is important, but they can also open doors. They can mobilize resources, they can get people passionate about the mission. That's right. The thing that I learned there, and I carried that through to the second organization that I started and then wound up running for more than a decade, is that almost everything about effective fundraising is about affinity. And when we talk about fundraising, people talk about relationships. But at the core of a relationship, a fundraising relationship, or relational fundraising, as we say, is affinity. Two people who have a shared vision for the world, a shared vision for impact, and are working together. Maybe I'm the executive director or the person working at an organization and you are the donor or the investor, but really, we're partners in this thing that we both care about. And I think that that's really in all of the fundraising work that I did, even as a grad student and then as a law fellow and then as a founder, whenever I centered the mission, whenever I centered affinity, the relationships that were built around that lead to resources, people invest in things they care about. Yeah, I love that. I think there is so much focus placed on building relationships, but you can't build a relationship if there's no trust, if there's affinity. Exactly. And it's interesting. I work with nonprofit leaders. We were talking before we came on camera about my coaching program. One of the questions I get all the time from nonprofit leaders is, okay, everyone says I'm supposed to do relational fundraising, but it feels fake. These aren't really my friends. What does that even mean? And so I go back to this idea of affinity, and I always talk about, picture you're at a dinner party with people you've never met, and you strike up a conversation with someone who has read a book that you also really love. You have a great conversation with that person, you leave the party, and two days later, you get an email and the person says, hey, this author of this book that we both love is speaking at a local bookstore. Would you like to go with me? That's a relationship that's been formed around something where you have a shared affinity. That's what you want your relationship with your donors to feel like. Except the thing isn't the book, it's a program or your mission, right? And it doesn't have to be one on one with every single donor. There are ways to scale affinity. So today we're talking about how to attract and not just chase new funders and donors. And this is something that's really near and dear to my heart as a social media marketer, as a digital marketer, because there's so much focus, especially, like at the time of this recording, we're getting into year end and giving Tuesday and all that hamster wheel madness. And there's so much focus on acquisition and new donors, and I find that so many fundraisers are stuck on this hamster wheel of chasing new donors and new revenue streams. So when you talk about attracting, not chasing, what do you mean? And then the second part of that question is, how can we start to shift into this mindset? Yeah, absolutely. So it's really this idea of affinity. And so let me back up for a moment and talk about sort of two modes of fundraising. So most of the fundraising conversations we have are, and I'm obviously hypersimplifying here, they are attachment based. So when we think about adding more donors, when we go to our board, when we talk to our staff, when we talk to fundraisers, we always start with, who do we know? Who do you know that we can ask? That's based on attachment. And what it means is that we are seeking, we're chasing or hunting. Right. If you want to be really sort of straight, strong about it, but this idea of sort of constantly having to find new people that you've met and new people that you know, new attachments can be exhausting. It takes a lot of energy and a lot of friction. So what I talk about is affinity based fundraising. It just flips that on its head. It's a frictionless type of fundraising that doesn't start with who we know because there's a limit to that. There's a cap. It starts with, what are we passionate about? What's the impact that we're creating in the world? What's our vision for change? And then it identifies strategies at scale for bringing those people who care about the same thing to us. And what it means is you're not having to constantly figure out how to meet new people and figure out how to get in front of new people and connect new networks. What you're doing is saying, this is the change we're creating. And now I'm going to use scalable, high leverage strategies for allowing people who would be excited about that work to raise their hand and say, I want to learn more to come to us. That's affinity based fundraising. And honestly, it's just easier. It works better. Yeah. I love that you talk about the watering hole strategy, which I think is really effective. Can you explain what that is and how we can use it? Absolutely. So it's this idea of the power of attraction. So if you think about nature, the idea of a watering hole they're actually really fascinating. Watering holes in nature bring together all kinds of animals and species that are totally different from one another, but they share this one thing in common. They need water. They care about this water. So instinctively, hundreds of different kinds of animals can end up being in a single place to get to that one thing, they all care about water. Metaphorical watering holes exist in our own lives also, right? If you think about need to feel connected to, like, people need a need to be informed or an interest in. I mentioned a particular book. Everybody that goes to the reading of that author, these might be people with different jobs, different genders, different ethnicities, different histories, different interests, but they're all at this particular watering hole. They're all here to hear this author speak because they have a shared affinity for this author. This is like a metaphorical watering hole. So this concept of a watering hole strategy for fundraising is really about finding the places, the conferences, the newspapers, the blogs, the social media platforms, as well as physical spaces where different kinds of people go to share in a shared affinity. So rather than trying to figure out, and we talk about things like donor profiles, for example, donor archetypes, a lot of times that leaders that I work with, they come to me and someone has said to them, okay, you need to think about your donor profile, and it should be, is it a woman in her kids? Right? Like me, demographic profiles. I always say, let's start with affinity. What are the kinds of things that your donors care about? What are the kinds of things they're passionate about, excited about, interested in? What would bring them out of their home on a November in New York in the cold, is it a talk on a certain topic? Is it a gallery opening? If you do art based work, those watering holes are places where people who will care about your mission if you choose the right watering hole, naturally gather. So rather than trying to figure out how to connect with the 100 people at this art gallery opening or book signing, figure out what the watering hole is, be in that space, and present what you do, your mission, your vision, in a way that makes those people raise their hand and say, oh, yeah, we share that affinity. We care about that, too. No, this is so powerful because in my work around marketing and digital fundraising, I always get the question, well, we have 90 different audiences, or we have all of these different audiences that we need and donor personas that we need to attract or we need to target. And I always try to say, what is that thread that runs through? Just like you're saying, it's that affinity. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And the idea of the watering hole is identify the places. And I mentioned a few of them, and I know we'll go into a little more detail. Identify the metaphorical watering holes where people who share an affinity for your mission would naturally gather. And you go to those places and you have an entire audience of potential donors, rather than having to do the one on one findings people and form an attachment. So affinity first, then you build an attachment with them, and you cannot have. That attachment without affinity. And are you a fan of. Exactly. I am. Yeah, I am. So this is his very famous quote. People like us do things like this, and it doesn't mean we don't do other things, and it doesn't mean other people cannot do this. It just means once you find that watering hole, you feel seen, you feel like these are people that I understand. These are people that get me. These are people that care about the same things that I care about. This is why people have bumper stickers on their car. Not everybody's a bumper sticker person. I'm a big bumper sticker person. You can see my office, right? And a lot of people have seen my office on webinars. I kind of wear my politics and my heart on my sleeve. That's just me. But I want to attract those other like minded people. I want people to see my bumper stickers and look and be like, oh, yeah, I also believe in that. Cause I also believe in that mission. I mean, you're hitting on something really important that I just want to lift up. I think a lot of fundraisers are afraid to do that because they're afraid. Of turning people off. Exactly. They're afraid of leaving money on the table. When actually, and you're nodding, people are listening. They can't see us. I'm nodding. Nodding, yes. But this idea of speaking to people who have a shared affinity, you should be attracting people who see the bumper sticker, the metaphorical bumper sticker of your mission or your vision, and say, yes, that's me, I want in. And anybody that doesn't say that isn't your donor, it's going to take a lot of time, a lot of resources, a lot of money to try to convince them, and that starts to feel extractive. Right. That's what starts to feel yucky about fundraising. But if you put up the metaphorical bumper sticker of your mission and people see it and hear about it in these watering hole spaces and think, that sounds amazing, that's the kind of change that I want to be part of. You build a relationship with those people, and then you invite them to invest. And it's easy, it's frictionless, it feels natural. It doesn't feel attractive or scary or hard. I read a really, or I listened to a very great interview with the head of marketing at Nike, and their whole philosophy is, we're not trying to convince you that you need sneakers, because how are we going to convince you that you need sneakers? We're trying to get to the people that love sneakers to buy our sneakers. So it's such a brilliant shift in marketing where it's like, rather than yelling at the rooftops, hey, everybody, you need a pair of sneakers. And everyone's going to say, well, either I have one or don't. You don't care about the people that don't care about high priced sneakers. If you want to spend, you don't. If you want to spend $20 on sneakers, great. Nike wants the people that want to spend over $100 on sneakers, and they're fine just attracting that audience. And the head of marketing said, once we figured that out, then we really hit our groove and we could really get really drill down deep into this whole affinity concept. Absolutely. That's right. And Nike's a great example because, and I talk about this sort of metaphorical dinner party that you go to where you want that kind of intimacy and connection. Well, the opposite of that is billboard fundraising. And I always talk to the leaders that I work with, which is a billboard. Right. It's painful, right. This idea that if I just say the right thing and put it in front of enough people, then money will start flowing in. This idea of, we don't want to leave money on the table. Well, as you know, billboard fundraising doesn't work because it isn't talking to anyone. Nobody passes a billboard and thinks that it's talking to them. And Nike is a great example, because even when they communicate, they have their swoosh. They say, just do it. They are talking to a particular psychographic of people who feel a particular way about sneakers, who feel a particular way. About actors or people like me that are just. That's right. Right. And I'm not saying we do all. The things, but that's the community that we see ourselves as part of. And they're not talking to anybody else. Right. They're talking to you at a dinner party. There's no billboard that's like, hey, please like us. Right. I think this idea of identity is really powerful. Right. There are certain donor triggers that are elements of donor psychology that we talk about. In fundraising. And this idea of identity is perhaps the most powerful. People want to act in ways that are in alignment with who they believe themselves to be, with their sense of themselves. And so when you go to an art gallery opening or a speaker series, the people in that room, the community that they are part of, that's part of who they see themselves as in the world, right? Those bumper stickers and the quotes that I see behind you, and I used to wear pins, those buttons that had sayings on them when I was in high school, they were really popular. Oh, yeah. Anybody who sees those, and it's like, I have them, too. That's part of my identity. I am somebody who wears my politics on my sleeve. And so when you can learn about that sense of identity, tap into that and say, oh, you are somebody who believes in this change in the world. Guess what? We are, too. Investing in our mission, partnering with us, fuels that sense of yourself. That's like being in flow, right? When you can tap into that sense of identity, and that's all about affinity. That's what a watering hole does. It does some of that work for you? I love this. Yay. All right, let's get into. We could riff on this for 45 minutes. It's something that I really believe cuts across fundraising and marketing and is so important for nonprofits to grow. And it's just this mindset shift that we have. Hey there. I'm interrupting this episode to share an absolutely free training that I created that's getting nonprofits of all sizes big results. Sure, you've been spending hours on social media, but what can you actually show for it? With all this posting and instagramming and TikToking, does it really translate into action? In my free training, I'll show you exactly how to take people from passive fans to passionate supporters. And I'll give you specific steps to create social media content that actually converts head on over to nonprofitsconvert.com. Again, that's nonprofitsconvert.com. And start building a thriving social media community for your nonprofit right now, without a big team, lots of tech overwhelm or getting stuck on the question, what do I do next? Let me show you how it's done. I can't wait to see what you. Create. And the strategies and the sort of the theory of attraction and affinity marketing. But you write about the four attraction strategies. Can you lay these out for us really briefly? Yeah, absolutely. So the watering hole strategy has four parts, stages, pages, social platforms, and institutional partnerships. And I'll just identify what they are briefly. So stages, these are metaphorical, are places where you can broadcast your mission and work and your point of view to the right people. So these are things like conferences, podcasts, webinars, think physical and metaphorical stages. So you want to ask yourself, what kinds of conferences can I keynote or facilitate a breakout workshop or panel conversation at? Right. Where are these convenings where people who have an affinity for our work are pages are places where people can see your work and your mission at work. Think things like magazines, op eds, articles, blogs. These are places where you can publish your data, you can publish impact reports. And so these are places where people at scale who have an affinity for your work would read about and learn about what you're doing and say, oh, yeah, I want to learn more. So stages and pages are similar, but stages versus written. The third are social platforms. And I always like to talk about these, and I know you and I could probably go on forever because this is what you do. But I think the important thing to understand about social platforms as part of the watering hole strategy is that they are not an asking tool. So I am not saying use social media to ask people for donations. I see social platforms as part of a watering hole strategy, as a way to let the right people know about what you do. It's an affinity building in front of people platform. Exactly. So thinking strategically about what you post, not staff updates. And, hey, we bought a new building, but things that actually illustrate and illuminate and bring to life what your work is, so that people who are on those platforms see their affinity and recognize their affinity. And the other thing that I'll say really briefly about social media platforms is you do not have to be, nor should you be on every single platform. You want to figure out where people who you think would have an affinity for your work are. Are they on Instagram? Are they on LinkedIn? And be there? That's the watering. Absolutely. And then the last are institutional partnerships. And so this is thinking about what other institutions have, audiences that are made up of your potential donors. Are there other organizations where you could co host a live or virtual event or a webinar? Are there local businesses that have affinity groups? A lot of corporations have affinity groups internally. Most do, actually. That might be relevant to your mission. Can you offer virtual training or event? Right. So thinking about these partnerships as a way, as watering holes, as a way to get in front of a collection of people who have an affinity for your work. So those are the four parts. Those are four types of watering holes to think about in your attraction strategy. This just made me think of a question. So I was going to ask you about eliminating silos within our organization, but now I want to shift to what you just said about partnerships and collaboration. How can we as nonprofit leaders, convince our boards, our staff members, our coworkers, and even ourselves that we are not in direct competition with other nonprofits and that we should collaborate more? Because I completely agree with you. I love that question so much for so many reasons. So I'm going to give you sort of my personal, esoteric answer and then a strategic and technical answer. So my personal answer is, I have always believed very firmly in the power of abundance. I think that the idea that we are in competition with each other in the nonprofit sector is not just dangerous, it's a myth. It's a mess. There are enough resources. There is so much money. There are so many resources available to do our work. The first part of the answer to your question is a mindset shift. We just have to decide to move through the world that way. And I will say very early in my own leadership of my organization, I had a small organization trying to sort of punch above my weight class. I just had to decide, I'm going to move through the world and approach people for partnerships and collaborations as if there is enough, and together we will be able to access more. I'm just going to choose. And so a lot of that was mindset now, strategically and tactically, that I would say is, and this goes to the clarity of your strategic priorities and goals. So there are lots of organizations that have similar missions. There are lots of organizations that have similar theories of change. When you approach a potential collaborator or partner as a watering hole, what you're looking to do is differentiate, not your mission, your theory of change, like what you're trying to do. You want a shared affinity, right? You want the people in their audience to care generally about what you're doing. The way that I think the convincing happens is, what are your strategic priorities? What are you trying to accomplish in the next year as an organization? Yes. What is the reason that this partnership is powerful? It can't just be because we want to get in front of. We want their mailing list, right? We want your mailing list. That's not actually a partnership. That's very attractive, and it doesn't work. There actually has to be a real reason for you to partner. So I'll give an example by way of clarifying this. So I ran an organization that did a lot of direct work with young people young teenagers. And one of the partners, one of the most fruitful partnerships that I had was with a much larger organization that did policy work, and they really wanted more access to young people in a non extractive way. They were like, we don't want to do any more focus groups. We don't want to go in and say, fill out our surveys like we would actually love for this next policy report that we're doing, to be informed meaningfully and shaped our young people. And so our partnership was a nine month long partnership where we wanted access to their platforms. We wanted to be part of this report, these pages that they were going to be publishing, because it got us in front of new funders, donors. We got press for it, but we didn't have the policy chops. I didn't have a legislative director. What we had were people with lived experience. And so our partnership wasn't, hey, we'll give you access to our kids, because that's icky. But we actually sat down together and said, you know what would be a really amazing partnership? You guys want your policies to be better, and we want our young people to have access to legislators and how decision making happens in New York City. Let's figure out what that looks like programmatically. And we built out a six month policy training sort of camp for kids. So ultimately, what that meant was, and it led to our first six figure funding grant because it got us. That was a watering hole. Those were pages when that report came out, and our name was on that report, and that went to funders and that went to policymakers and city council. It got me invited to the governor's working group on teen parents. That's how watering holes work. But it was a real partnership. There was real substance. I love that. I have a great example. I have a short story that I want to share just because it recently happened. So I live in Wenham. It's near Beverly, Mass. I'm from Beverly, Massachusetts. And there's an Instagram account, and it's called entering Beverly. And it's all memes. It's very influential. Thousands of followers. No one knows who runs. It's very secretive, very hotshot. Yeah. So the story is, on Halloween night, a group of kids actually set fire to a historical property in Beverly. The Cabot house. It's really old. It's from the 18 hundreds and burned, only, thankfully, part of it down and entering Beverly decided to run a fundraising campaign. They'd never done anything philanthropic before. They wanted to raise $5,000. They raised$25,000. In three days. They're still reporting on it. It's so amazing. So the power of that partnership and what entering Beverly did is they enlisted other nonprofits in the area, because what's so interesting is, when you're not in the sector, you don't understand this. Like, oh, no, it's my piece of the pie. And nonprofits don't work together. They didn't have this mindset. They're like, why wouldn't everyone just come together for this one great cause? And sure enough, they did. Exactly. And the library was raising money, and city hall and all these restaurants and all these other organizations all coming together for historic Beverly is just so powerful. When you see that level of collaboration, community collaboration. And then so many people said, oh, I had never heard of historic Beverly. Now my eyes are open that this is a resource in the community. And just using, leveraging those resources that are a little bit out of the box that you might not think about to reach and attract these brand new donors. But thinking about, they had an affinity for this account, they had an affinity for Beverly, they had an affinity for the city that they live in or are from. And that's so powerful. Yes. I think that you're speaking in part to this power of mindset, right. This idea that they had, like, why wouldn't everybody collaborate if we, as nonprofit leaders and fundraisers, can, even if in our minds, we're a little nervous, if we can act as if we can just move through the world and say to ourselves, why wouldn't this organization want to collaborate with me to host a joint webinar for the parents that we serve or host a joint community event or work together in this way. Why wouldn't they? I will say that in the 13 years that I ran my organization, only one time did I ever have another nonprofit leader rebuke me. And I still remember it because it only happened one time. Every other time I thought about collaborations, I thought about partnerships. The answer was, that sounds amazing. Right? Because we have this shared goal, and our communities should know one another. We should be in one another's communities. Yeah. So it's really powerful. That last piece, they're all really important parts of a watering pole strategy. But I will say some of the deepest relationships with supporters have come through those partnerships. Oh, wow. It's so inspiring. I love it. Everyone, of course, was telling me about it because they're like, oh, it's social media fundraising. And I said, but it's not really community fundraising. It didn't happen because of, like, Instagram. Enabled it, but it happened because the community came together and collaborated. That's right. And that's the difference between using the tool as an asking tool. Right. Using Instagram as an asking tool as opposed to this affinity building, community building. And then it's a vehicle. It's just a way that they could get. Could have been anything. It could have been on Myspace back in the day. That's right. Right. All right, one more big, meaty question. How can nonprofit leaders get out of the weeds of the constant overwhelm and decision fatigue? What's your advice? Absolutely. So I have a four part strategy that I teach and that I care very deeply about because I think it works. Okay. It's going to sound super simple, but it works every time. So you want to know where you're starting, know where you're going, know your next best goal, and take targeted, high leverage action. I love that. Okay, so I'll start from the first. Know where you're starting. This is your baseline. So if you are in the weeds, if you're overwhelmed, you have to really understand why. So I often will give the leaders that I work with a baseline assessment. There are lots of questions that I advise in the fundraising and strategic planning course that I offer. With Rio Wong, we talk about know your baseline, know where you're starting, what's going wrong, what's working, what's not right. That's how you will decide the gap between where you are and your vision. And that's part two. Know where you're going. You have to have a clear vision. And organizationally, a lot of organizations will say, oh, we have a strategic plan and it's great, and our board knows it. Usually that's not right. Usually, organizations don't take the time to do the baselining, and they think they have a strategic plan. So they don't actually take the time to say no. But actually, what's our strategic vision? What does the world look like? What does our organization look like exactly? If we have done what we say we wanted to do, and the reason that those two things are important is because you can't change being in the weeds, being overwhelmed, if you aren't clear in your mind about what the better version looks like. Right. So know where you're starting, know where you're going. Then the third part is take the next best step. I do a lot of trainings and other spaces around organizational growth stages, and I think what often leads to overwhelm for leaders is that they are at stage three. Let's say I made December up. They're at stage three. They're at one point in their organizational development, and they have set goals that are four stages ahead. Right. So I am an organization that has consistently raised $250,000, and I have set a goal for next fiscal year of raising 2 million. That's not the right next best step. Right. And I don't ever want to deflate anybody and say, don't shoot for the stars. So you can set priorities and long term goals, but your next best step is, what's the next stage? What's the next challenge that we should be focusing on being honest and clear about? That is the third step. And then the fourth is, once you know your next best step, you want to take targeted meaning aimed at that goal. High leverage actions. So you want your actions to get the highest return on investment of your time and resources as possible. And a lot of times when we're in the weeds, we're doing things like checking and rechecking our Instagram likes or posting on eight different social platforms rather than focusing on. Right. You're nodding. We're sitting in eight staff meetings when actually someone on our team can run them for us. We are doing things that don't have a lot of leverage, and we don't get a lot of return on investment on those. So once you know what your next best step is, you want to aim your energy at that and take the highest leverage action you can. So, those are the four steps that I walk folks through that I use to get myself out of the weeds when I'm feeling overwhelmed. That's sort of the framework that I. Need to write a book on that. I was thinking, I love productivity. I would absolutely love to read that book. Do you teach that in your course with Rhea Wong? Okay, tell me about that course and then also tell my listeners where they can reach you and find more about you. Brooke. Absolutely. So, first of all, the course, it's called fund your strategic vision. And it is a highly tactical, step by step approach to operationalizing what we talked about today. So it says, here's how to get super crystal clear about your strategic vision, your strategic priorities, and your goals organizationally. And then here's how to use that information to attract the right donors. So it's not sort of high level and lofty. It's step by step. At the end of the course, you will have a clear, one page strategic plan. I've always said, if you can't articulate where you're going in a page, it's too complicated. Nobody's going to complicated. So you'll have a one page strategic plan. You'll know who your ideal donors are and you'll have the strategies and the assets to attract them. So it's called funding. Your strategic vision perfect. Where can we find information on that? So the best place to go would be your strategic vision perfect. Is that where you want people to connect with you on your website? No, the best place to connect with me is actually on LinkedIn. Yes. And through my newsletter. So my newsletter is mostly it's called leadership board. Three, two, one. It's three ideas, two resources, and an action step. Every week delivered. I'm going to totally steal that. That's so good. What is it? Three, two, one. It's three, two. What is it? Two resources and an action step. Every week, that is. And then on Monday, it's like really hyper specific strategy tips. But I think a lot of nonprofits could steal that three to one idea. I love a good framework, so most. I love it. Yeah, me too. You're not a Virgo by any chance, aren't you? No. I could totally tell you. A Virgo. I'm a cancer. Yes, I see that. I get along with a lot of virgos. I'm not a cancer. That crazy. But I love a framework, I love a checklist. I love a good step by step. I love your four steps. That is how my brain thinks. But yeah. Brooke, Richie Babbage. I will put all the links in the show notes. And just thanks so much for your generous spirit and all of your insight today. Thank you so much for having me, Julia. It's great talking to you. Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to, and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode. But until then, you can find me on Instagram at Julia Campbell 77. Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn.