{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.2,"endTime":3.678,"body":"A massive transfer of wealth is right around the corner,"},{"startTime":3.846,"endTime":7.246,"body":"and your constituent base is changing. Are your"},{"startTime":7.27,"endTime":10.662,"body":"fundraising efforts ready? This episode is sponsored by"},{"startTime":10.758,"endTime":14.582,"body":"Qgive by Bloomerang, an online fundraising solution that helps"},{"startTime":14.638,"endTime":18.238,"body":"thousands of nonprofits raise money for their causes through"},{"startTime":18.286,"endTime":21.982,"body":"online giving and event registration, forums, text fundraising,"},{"startTime":22.038,"endTime":25.59,"body":"peer to peer campaigns, and auction events. Q gives tools"},{"startTime":25.662,"endTime":29.428,"body":"help fundraisers like you raise more QGIF"},{"startTime":29.476,"endTime":32.98,"body":"surveyed donors of all ages to create the brand"},{"startTime":33.092,"endTime":36.94,"body":"new generational Giving Report, a comprehensive guide"},{"startTime":37.052,"endTime":40.22,"body":"to help you best connect with constituents of all"},{"startTime":40.292,"endTime":44.036,"body":"generations. To learn how new generations want"},{"startTime":44.06,"endTime":47.54,"body":"to support you, hear from you, and stay connected with"},{"startTime":47.572,"endTime":49.364,"body":"you, head to"},{"startTime":49.524,"endTime":53.064,"body":"jcsocialmarketing.com"},{"startTime":53.644,"endTime":56.744,"body":"q give. That's jcsocialmarketing.com"},{"startTime":57.084,"endTime":60.848,"body":"qg giv to be notified when the report"},{"startTime":60.896,"endTime":64.352,"body":"is released and to receive your free copy onto the"},{"startTime":64.368,"endTime":64.924,"body":"show."},{"startTime":67.904,"endTime":71.744,"body":"Hello and welcome to NonproFit Nation. I'm your host, Julia"},{"startTime":71.784,"endTime":75.224,"body":"Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry"},{"startTime":75.304,"endTime":78.832,"body":"experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in"},{"startTime":78.848,"endTime":82.504,"body":"between to get real and discuss what it takes to"},{"startTime":82.544,"endTime":86.376,"body":"build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created"},{"startTime":86.44,"endTime":90.184,"body":"the nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and"},{"startTime":90.224,"endTime":93.944,"body":"strategies to help you confidently find your voice,"},{"startTime":94.104,"endTime":97.608,"body":"definitively grow your audience, and effectively build"},{"startTime":97.696,"endTime":101.464,"body":"your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced"},{"startTime":101.504,"endTime":104.984,"body":"professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more"},{"startTime":105.024,"endTime":108.584,"body":"people, and create even more impact, then you're in the"},{"startTime":108.624,"endTime":110.924,"body":"right place. Let's get started."},{"startTime":116.824,"endTime":120.662,"body":"Hi everyone. This is Julia Campbell, your host"},{"startTime":120.718,"endTime":123.806,"body":"for nonprofit Nation. The question we're asking"},{"startTime":123.95,"endTime":127.59,"body":"today, now, I know that my"},{"startTime":127.622,"endTime":130.95,"body":"audience is comprised of nonprofit leaders, development directors,"},{"startTime":131.022,"endTime":134.782,"body":"marketing directors, consultants, people that want"},{"startTime":134.798,"endTime":138.462,"body":"to create impact that might feel stuck. And"},{"startTime":138.478,"endTime":142.314,"body":"today we're talking about how you might feel stuck despite"},{"startTime":142.774,"endTime":146.212,"body":"completing a strategic plan, a marketing plan,"},{"startTime":146.358,"endTime":149.712,"body":"hiring consultants, going through all"},{"startTime":149.768,"endTime":153.6,"body":"of the different motions, jumping through all the different hoops."},{"startTime":153.712,"endTime":157.456,"body":"And it can be really frustrating when you've done all of this and you've created"},{"startTime":157.48,"endTime":160.96,"body":"all these different plans, but you still feel"},{"startTime":161.032,"endTime":164.44,"body":"like you're drowning. So today we're going to talk about"},{"startTime":164.552,"endTime":168.208,"body":"how to make this amazing strategic plan that"},{"startTime":168.216,"endTime":172.008,"body":"you created actionable and how to get"},{"startTime":172.136,"endTime":175.52,"body":"genuine, lasting engagement to power up your mission and"},{"startTime":175.552,"endTime":179.398,"body":"increase your impact. And my guest today is Beth"},{"startTime":179.446,"endTime":183.174,"body":"Saunders, a strategic consultant who helps nonprofits"},{"startTime":183.294,"endTime":186.91,"body":"connect people and programs to mission and goals"},{"startTime":187.062,"endTime":190.694,"body":"by harnessing their expertise and tapping their data."},{"startTime":190.854,"endTime":194.502,"body":"And we dive into her signature map"},{"startTime":194.598,"endTime":198.206,"body":"move measure framework, which is a guide for"},{"startTime":198.27,"endTime":201.23,"body":"elevating stewardship and developing longer term"},{"startTime":201.262,"endTime":204.536,"body":"relationships with your supporters. That's your donors,"},{"startTime":204.64,"endTime":208.072,"body":"volunteers, advocates, and board members. And this"},{"startTime":208.168,"endTime":211.616,"body":"is a specific framework for centering"},{"startTime":211.68,"endTime":214.684,"body":"donor communication around goals,"},{"startTime":215.144,"endTime":218.856,"body":"creating personalized journeys that move them to support your"},{"startTime":218.88,"endTime":222.648,"body":"mission in more and bigger ways. It's really how you make"},{"startTime":222.736,"endTime":226.416,"body":"your strategic plan actionable. And I'm just so"},{"startTime":226.44,"endTime":229.938,"body":"excited because I love talking action and tactics. So,"},{"startTime":230.066,"endTime":233.906,"body":"beth, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Julia. It's really a thrill"},{"startTime":233.93,"endTime":237.698,"body":"to be here. I'm excited to have this conversation. Yes. And Beth,"},{"startTime":237.746,"endTime":241.17,"body":"I just want to say I really appreciate you're always highlighting and"},{"startTime":241.202,"endTime":244.826,"body":"amplifying and commenting on my LinkedIn content"},{"startTime":244.93,"endTime":248.37,"body":"and sharing about my podcast, and I. Just really appreciate it."},{"startTime":248.402,"endTime":252.042,"body":"So thank you. And I'm just so thrilled to have this conversation"},{"startTime":252.098,"endTime":255.458,"body":"today. So my first question is, how did you get into"},{"startTime":255.506,"endTime":259.022,"body":"nonprofit work? What is your journey to where you are today?"},{"startTime":259.198,"endTime":262.598,"body":"Well, believe it or not, I got into"},{"startTime":262.646,"endTime":266.238,"body":"nonprofit work through what I call my salisbury Hill moment."},{"startTime":266.366,"endTime":269.774,"body":"So if you're familiar with that, for those of you who aren't, Peter Gabriel"},{"startTime":269.894,"endTime":273.39,"body":"actually left the band Genesis after his salisbury hill moment. We're dating"},{"startTime":273.422,"endTime":277.27,"body":"ourselves. But it's okay. I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm probably"},{"startTime":277.302,"endTime":279.822,"body":"going to do that a lot in this conversation. It's okay. I love Genesis. Love"},{"startTime":279.838,"endTime":283.446,"body":"Peter Gabriel. So I had a Salisbury Hill moment, and I also tend to say"},{"startTime":283.51,"endTime":287.174,"body":"I feel like I've lived my life backwards. You know, I do things later"},{"startTime":287.214,"endTime":291.006,"body":"in life than other people do them. And so I got into nonprofit. I was"},{"startTime":291.07,"endTime":294.814,"body":"actually turning 30 when I realized that banking"},{"startTime":294.894,"endTime":298.718,"body":"just really wasn't doing it for me. I started my career. I went, studied"},{"startTime":298.766,"endTime":302.206,"body":"business, and did an MBA. Sort of did all the. Checked all the boxes of"},{"startTime":302.23,"endTime":306.038,"body":"being a good student, and was just wanting"},{"startTime":306.086,"endTime":309.118,"body":"what I did every day to make a difference. What I was doing wasn't really"},{"startTime":309.166,"endTime":312.926,"body":"meaningful to me. So I took this adventure vacation to get away from it"},{"startTime":312.95,"endTime":316.62,"body":"all. And I was in Peru, hiking the inca trail."},{"startTime":316.692,"endTime":320.236,"body":"Literally had this moment where I could see nobody"},{"startTime":320.34,"endTime":324.188,"body":"around me, and a bird flew by. It didn't talk to me, but"},{"startTime":324.196,"endTime":327.948,"body":"a bird did fly by. But I looked around and I thought, we're so small,"},{"startTime":328.036,"endTime":331.316,"body":"and the short amount of time we have here should be more"},{"startTime":331.34,"endTime":334.916,"body":"meaningful. I'm not going to forget the way I feel right now. So"},{"startTime":335.02,"endTime":338.788,"body":"I got back to my banking desk and started job hunting. And"},{"startTime":338.876,"endTime":342.332,"body":"what ended up happening is I found a job. It was actually an"},{"startTime":342.348,"endTime":346.126,"body":"Americorps vista roll with a microlipon organization. And I"},{"startTime":346.15,"endTime":349.926,"body":"felt like business person banker could actually"},{"startTime":349.99,"endTime":353.686,"body":"find space doing something meaningful. And that was"},{"startTime":353.71,"endTime":357.302,"body":"how I really made the shift out of the corporate world into the nonprofit"},{"startTime":357.358,"endTime":360.846,"body":"space. So after serving as an AmeriCorps vista"},{"startTime":361.03,"endTime":364.406,"body":"with many folk much younger than myself. I stayed with that"},{"startTime":364.43,"endTime":366.954,"body":"nonprofit for several years and"},{"startTime":368.094,"endTime":371.75,"body":"I was like in lending operations. So I was still doing business"},{"startTime":371.822,"endTime":375.43,"body":"related work, but I was helping people who had little or no"},{"startTime":375.462,"endTime":379.094,"body":"access to credit. But then actually, my husband and I took another pause in"},{"startTime":379.134,"endTime":382.878,"body":"life and we left our jobs and we spent a year in South"},{"startTime":382.926,"endTime":386.758,"body":"America. We went back there, but this time we went and we volunteered. I don't"},{"startTime":386.766,"endTime":390.274,"body":"know if you're familiar with, there's a website, idealist.org. Dot"},{"startTime":390.614,"endTime":394.334,"body":"it, post jobs there. Well, again, as business people, we thought, what can we"},{"startTime":394.374,"endTime":398.038,"body":"do? We can't do Doctors"},{"startTime":398.126,"endTime":401.718,"body":"without Borders. We don't have a skill that is health"},{"startTime":401.766,"endTime":405.4,"body":"related. But we found an NGO and we ended"},{"startTime":405.432,"endTime":409.224,"body":"up running children education center in Peru for about six months."},{"startTime":409.304,"endTime":412.904,"body":"And we worked with peruvian volunteers and we really"},{"startTime":412.944,"endTime":416.56,"body":"got involved in the community. So that just kept fueling"},{"startTime":416.632,"endTime":420.304,"body":"my desire to stay in the nonprofit space. So when we got"},{"startTime":420.344,"endTime":423.72,"body":"back, that was actually a whole year of being away. When we did get back,"},{"startTime":423.832,"endTime":427.672,"body":"I stayed in the nonprofit space. And what happened was I shifted from working"},{"startTime":427.728,"endTime":431.572,"body":"in a nonprofit to being a contract employee. This"},{"startTime":431.588,"endTime":435.244,"body":"is how I ended up doing the work I'm doing today. I ended up"},{"startTime":435.324,"endTime":438.664,"body":"helping a nonprofit open up a new location"},{"startTime":439.044,"endTime":442.304,"body":"and was the project lead on a CRM project."},{"startTime":442.844,"endTime":446.404,"body":"After that, what I learned about myself was"},{"startTime":446.444,"endTime":449.78,"body":"that I was really good at helping solve business"},{"startTime":449.852,"endTime":453.596,"body":"problems with technology and connecting the dots between different"},{"startTime":453.66,"endTime":456.988,"body":"departments, different roles. And that"},{"startTime":457.036,"endTime":460.78,"body":"launched Beth Saunders Consulting, which is now Beth Saunders associates."},{"startTime":460.932,"endTime":464.3,"body":"Because making a difference in the world is something that so many"},{"startTime":464.332,"endTime":467.644,"body":"organizations are doing and there's so many causes I'm passionate"},{"startTime":467.684,"endTime":471.34,"body":"about that consulting to them or partnering with"},{"startTime":471.372,"endTime":475.18,"body":"them allows me to make a difference through the work they're"},{"startTime":475.212,"endTime":478.852,"body":"already doing. It's interesting. I have kind of, kind"},{"startTime":478.868,"endTime":482.308,"body":"of not really, I mean, kind of a similar story. I did the Peace Corps,"},{"startTime":482.476,"endTime":485.756,"body":"so I meet a lot of AmeriCorps volunteers and return Peace Corps"},{"startTime":485.78,"endTime":489.49,"body":"volunteers. And I worked with a lot of NGO's abroad and"},{"startTime":489.522,"endTime":493.354,"body":"came back and was a director of development for years and then went"},{"startTime":493.394,"endTime":497.002,"body":"out on my own. So you started consulting around"},{"startTime":497.058,"endTime":500.778,"body":"technology. So how did you move from consulting around"},{"startTime":500.826,"endTime":504.57,"body":"technology to supporter engagement, which is what you do"},{"startTime":504.602,"endTime":508.37,"body":"now? That happened. I spent a bunch of years helping"},{"startTime":508.402,"endTime":512.17,"body":"nonprofits be successful on the Salesforce platform using"},{"startTime":512.202,"endTime":515.702,"body":"the nonprofit success pack. I always"},{"startTime":515.758,"endTime":519.354,"body":"approached that from a strategic perspective, saying,"},{"startTime":519.654,"endTime":522.234,"body":"what are you trying to achieve in your organization"},{"startTime":522.774,"endTime":526.55,"body":"and how do you go about achieving that? And"},{"startTime":526.582,"endTime":529.998,"body":"how can this technology support you as opposed to"},{"startTime":530.046,"endTime":533.742,"body":"you working the way that technology tells you you have to work."},{"startTime":533.878,"endTime":537.726,"body":"So my approach was always goals oriented and"},{"startTime":537.91,"endTime":541.718,"body":"well into that first organization I"},{"startTime":541.726,"endTime":545.414,"body":"was telling you about. We were working on their CRM project, and I learned"},{"startTime":545.454,"endTime":549.096,"body":"about an app was actually called Engage at the"},{"startTime":549.12,"endTime":552.84,"body":"time. And what it did is it sort of dropped"},{"startTime":552.872,"endTime":556.024,"body":"right into the CRM and it helped measure engagement with"},{"startTime":556.064,"endTime":559.552,"body":"supporters. So a lot of the work I'd been doing was supporting volunteer"},{"startTime":559.608,"endTime":562.856,"body":"management, program management, fundraising, sort of"},{"startTime":562.96,"endTime":566.632,"body":"operationally, everything across an organization. When I learned about this"},{"startTime":566.688,"endTime":570.328,"body":"app and the idea of measuring it, I saw that it was much more strategic"},{"startTime":570.376,"endTime":574.03,"body":"approach to using data. It was about"},{"startTime":574.222,"endTime":578.006,"body":"identifying who's really interested in"},{"startTime":578.03,"endTime":581.83,"body":"your mission because of the way they're interacting with you and leveraging"},{"startTime":581.862,"endTime":585.59,"body":"the data. I realized that I could stay"},{"startTime":585.782,"endTime":589.414,"body":"helping use technology, but really about leveraging"},{"startTime":589.454,"endTime":593.07,"body":"that data to be more goals focused"},{"startTime":593.222,"endTime":597.022,"body":"towards vision. So I learned about that. I"},{"startTime":597.038,"endTime":600.886,"body":"would really like to give a shout out because at the time, it was"},{"startTime":601.03,"endTime":604.47,"body":"software provided by firm called Groundwire."},{"startTime":604.582,"endTime":608.086,"body":"And the executive director there, Gideon Rosenblatt, actually"},{"startTime":608.15,"endTime":611.594,"body":"pioneered the engagement pyramid, which this app"},{"startTime":612.174,"endTime":615.966,"body":"measured. It was basically the engagement pyramid inside your"},{"startTime":615.99,"endTime":619.71,"body":"CRM. And I was working, I got to know the"},{"startTime":619.742,"endTime":623.446,"body":"folks there, particularly Karen Offelman, who went on from there"},{"startTime":623.47,"endTime":627.238,"body":"to co found percolator consulting. And I think it's really important to shout"},{"startTime":627.286,"endTime":630.75,"body":"that out. I'm very much a connector and I love sharing"},{"startTime":630.862,"endTime":634.236,"body":"really great ideas. But all of the DIY"},{"startTime":634.3,"endTime":638.124,"body":"material that they had put out there around engagement strategy"},{"startTime":638.244,"endTime":641.9,"body":"is how I learned about what I now have"},{"startTime":641.932,"endTime":645.108,"body":"created. Map, move, measure, theory of change, engagement"},{"startTime":645.156,"endTime":648.444,"body":"pyramid. So the shift was I spent many years"},{"startTime":648.524,"endTime":651.544,"body":"working on designing and implementing the technology."},{"startTime":651.844,"endTime":655.172,"body":"And with my background of"},{"startTime":655.348,"endTime":658.624,"body":"business banking, like operational management,"},{"startTime":659.104,"endTime":661.864,"body":"connecting people, and caring a lot about"},{"startTime":661.904,"endTime":665.248,"body":"relationships, the shift to still"},{"startTime":665.376,"endTime":668.88,"body":"leveraging data to facilitate these"},{"startTime":668.912,"endTime":672.76,"body":"meaningful relationships got me really excited. So that's where I decided"},{"startTime":672.832,"endTime":676.176,"body":"to focus. I love that. So"},{"startTime":676.36,"endTime":679.724,"body":"let's get into the definitions here. So"},{"startTime":680.784,"endTime":684.364,"body":"how is engagement strategy"},{"startTime":684.924,"endTime":688.572,"body":"different from fundraising strategy,"},{"startTime":688.708,"endTime":691.744,"body":"marketing strategy, volunteer management?"},{"startTime":692.644,"endTime":696.364,"body":"Really glad you asked that question. I do get that"},{"startTime":696.404,"endTime":699.748,"body":"a lot. First of all, the word engagement or"},{"startTime":699.796,"endTime":703.452,"body":"supporter engagement is about all of the ways people"},{"startTime":703.508,"endTime":707.228,"body":"can support the organization. Okay, so fundraising strategy"},{"startTime":707.276,"endTime":710.932,"body":"is pretty specific to how to be successful"},{"startTime":710.988,"endTime":714.32,"body":"raising funds. It's about the relationship with"},{"startTime":714.352,"endTime":717.848,"body":"somebody when they're a donor. And marketing"},{"startTime":717.896,"endTime":721.416,"body":"strategy is about the best way of marketing"},{"startTime":721.56,"endTime":725.384,"body":"your story, your mission, by getting your communication and your messaging out. But"},{"startTime":725.424,"endTime":729.272,"body":"engagement strategy is really about using all"},{"startTime":729.288,"endTime":732.944,"body":"of those strategies to increase engagement from all of your"},{"startTime":732.984,"endTime":736.696,"body":"supporters. So with an engagement strategy, it's like"},{"startTime":736.72,"endTime":740.554,"body":"a wraparound. It talks about engagement"},{"startTime":740.594,"endTime":744.434,"body":"strategy includes a lot of different components. If you were going to do engagement"},{"startTime":744.474,"endTime":747.954,"body":"strategy, soup to nuts, you would start with your vision, you'd map some"},{"startTime":747.994,"endTime":751.45,"body":"goals, you would strengthen your mission statement. You"},{"startTime":751.482,"endTime":755.274,"body":"identify your superpowers, and that's what makes you"},{"startTime":755.314,"endTime":758.858,"body":"uniquely great. You turn that into your value proposition"},{"startTime":759.026,"endTime":762.786,"body":"that you convey to the Personas and your audience. And all of this gets"},{"startTime":762.81,"endTime":766.446,"body":"really technical. And a lot of those terms you've probably heard being in the"},{"startTime":766.47,"endTime":770.294,"body":"marketing and social media space. But engagement strategy"},{"startTime":770.414,"endTime":773.782,"body":"pulls all of that together so that your fundraising is more, your"},{"startTime":773.798,"endTime":777.382,"body":"fundraising strategy is more targeted. Your marketing strategy"},{"startTime":777.478,"endTime":781.102,"body":"knows where to focus, what messages to focus on, because it frames"},{"startTime":781.158,"endTime":784.982,"body":"up all of it. I can probably give you an example or"},{"startTime":784.998,"endTime":788.102,"body":"be more specific, but the idea is that it's about"},{"startTime":788.158,"endTime":791.574,"body":"increasing the opportunity for people"},{"startTime":791.734,"endTime":795.358,"body":"to participate in your mission through donations,"},{"startTime":795.486,"endTime":799.142,"body":"through volunteer time, through advocacy, through committee"},{"startTime":799.238,"endTime":802.662,"body":"service. All the ways that people can support."},{"startTime":802.838,"endTime":806.278,"body":"Yep, all the ways they can. The myriad of ways"},{"startTime":806.446,"endTime":810.23,"body":"that they can actually show that they believe in your cause and they"},{"startTime":810.262,"endTime":813.806,"body":"trust you and they have affinity for you and they support you. So"},{"startTime":813.91,"endTime":817.414,"body":"we're going into, I mean, there's so many different things"},{"startTime":817.454,"endTime":820.844,"body":"happening. So as we're recording this, it's an election"},{"startTime":820.924,"endTime":824.524,"body":"year and there might be an economic downturn"},{"startTime":824.644,"endTime":828.444,"body":"and there's inflation and there's all of these different news headlines."},{"startTime":828.564,"endTime":832.064,"body":"What are some of the things like, what do you see as the biggest challenges"},{"startTime":832.364,"endTime":836.124,"body":"facing nonprofits right now in terms of supporter"},{"startTime":836.164,"endTime":839.812,"body":"engagement? One of the biggest challenges, I think, across the"},{"startTime":839.828,"endTime":843.516,"body":"nonprofit sector, and probably has always been there, is something that we're"},{"startTime":843.58,"endTime":847.13,"body":"actually hearing a lot of conversation about right"},{"startTime":847.162,"endTime":850.93,"body":"now, is the scarcity mindset that"},{"startTime":851.082,"endTime":854.534,"body":"very often in the nonprofit space,"},{"startTime":854.874,"endTime":858.154,"body":"we think that we need to find new and"},{"startTime":858.194,"endTime":861.874,"body":"more new ideas, is like"},{"startTime":861.914,"endTime":865.602,"body":"this eternal, perpetual hamster wheel we're just"},{"startTime":865.658,"endTime":869.074,"body":"always running, looking for the next new"},{"startTime":869.194,"endTime":872.894,"body":"donor, the next new board member, the next new. And"},{"startTime":873.074,"endTime":876.51,"body":"while there's absolutely a need and a"},{"startTime":876.542,"endTime":880.354,"body":"place for prospecting and quality prospect research,"},{"startTime":880.854,"endTime":884.478,"body":"if that's the only place we're looking, I feel like that's really coming"},{"startTime":884.526,"endTime":888.326,"body":"from that scarcity mindset. We're never going to have enough. I"},{"startTime":888.35,"endTime":892.114,"body":"really believe that probably has been and still is"},{"startTime":892.494,"endTime":895.662,"body":"the single biggest challenge. And I believe"},{"startTime":895.758,"endTime":899.278,"body":"that engagement strategy really helps address"},{"startTime":899.366,"endTime":902.798,"body":"that because it's about developing longer term"},{"startTime":902.846,"endTime":906.6,"body":"relationships. It's not just about developing relationships, about"},{"startTime":906.672,"endTime":910.16,"body":"long term relationships with your current supporters."},{"startTime":910.352,"endTime":913.936,"body":"There's a way to deepen that, strengthen it and"},{"startTime":914.12,"endTime":917.792,"body":"broaden it, those relationships. And that"},{"startTime":917.848,"endTime":921.16,"body":"only happens when you can pause, kind of look"},{"startTime":921.232,"endTime":924.952,"body":"up and notice all the great"},{"startTime":925.008,"endTime":928.504,"body":"things that are happening around you. When you look up, you remember your"},{"startTime":928.544,"endTime":932.148,"body":"vision, which I would like to think most"},{"startTime":932.196,"endTime":935.932,"body":"people are thinking about, but I would put money on"},{"startTime":935.948,"endTime":939.412,"body":"the table. Most are thinking about mission, and mission is work,"},{"startTime":939.588,"endTime":943.02,"body":"and work is important, but we have to remember why we're doing the"},{"startTime":943.052,"endTime":946.436,"body":"work. So when you pause and look up, you can have an"},{"startTime":946.46,"endTime":949.864,"body":"abundance mindset and see all the people already"},{"startTime":950.284,"endTime":954.116,"body":"supporting your work because they believe in the goals you're trying to"},{"startTime":954.14,"endTime":957.848,"body":"achieve. It's really easy, right, to get bogged down"},{"startTime":957.896,"endTime":961.584,"body":"in the doom and gloom or when your head's down, to think"},{"startTime":961.624,"endTime":965.204,"body":"that you just have one. Your email inbox with 700 emails."},{"startTime":966.424,"endTime":970.24,"body":"Right, right. All the emails and the to do lists and the"},{"startTime":970.272,"endTime":973.952,"body":"day to day. Sorry, I could probably go on and on about that, but I'd"},{"startTime":973.968,"endTime":977.424,"body":"be a broken record. No, I talk a lot about that, too. And I'm so"},{"startTime":977.464,"endTime":981.12,"body":"glad you brought up the scarcity mindset, because it's"},{"startTime":981.152,"endTime":984.922,"body":"something that I rally against. And I think we"},{"startTime":984.938,"endTime":987.934,"body":"were just so conditioned in this sector to"},{"startTime":988.354,"endTime":992.178,"body":"accept that we'll, or think that we'll never have enough."},{"startTime":992.226,"endTime":995.658,"body":"There's not enough to go around. We have to be fighting for"},{"startTime":995.706,"endTime":999.442,"body":"scraps. We can't make any money. We can't get good benefits. I mean, we"},{"startTime":999.458,"endTime":1002.642,"body":"could talk for days about the scarcity mindset, but I do agree it's a"},{"startTime":1002.658,"endTime":1006.458,"body":"hindrance. So if we're going to get out of this scarcity"},{"startTime":1006.506,"endTime":1010.316,"body":"mindset. Right. You have a unique framework that you've created. And I"},{"startTime":1010.34,"endTime":1014.188,"body":"love a good alliteration. It's called. And I love a good framework, too."},{"startTime":1014.236,"endTime":1017.932,"body":"It's called map move measure. So"},{"startTime":1018.068,"endTime":1021.796,"body":"tell us about how this was created"},{"startTime":1021.98,"endTime":1025.764,"body":"and how it helps nonprofits to go, like, beyond, just,"},{"startTime":1025.804,"endTime":1029.172,"body":"like, having their strategic plan that sits on a shelf, you know, like, how does"},{"startTime":1029.188,"endTime":1033.012,"body":"it actually make things actionable for them? Sure. So map"},{"startTime":1033.068,"endTime":1036.628,"body":"move measure really came out of the fact that the engagement"},{"startTime":1036.676,"endTime":1040.46,"body":"strategy we talked about earlier is big, and it can"},{"startTime":1040.492,"endTime":1044.34,"body":"feel heavy. The word strategy alone can feel heavy. It can be"},{"startTime":1044.372,"endTime":1047.892,"body":"really intimidating. And so I was"},{"startTime":1047.988,"endTime":1051.564,"body":"thinking about this and thinking about it, and map move measure is a"},{"startTime":1051.604,"endTime":1055.428,"body":"framework. And so what it is, is it's a framework which"},{"startTime":1055.516,"endTime":1059.156,"body":"if you really break that word down, I think"},{"startTime":1059.18,"endTime":1062.996,"body":"of a framework as guardrails, and guardrails are meant"},{"startTime":1063.02,"endTime":1066.464,"body":"to keep you safe and keep you on the road,"},{"startTime":1066.864,"endTime":1070.648,"body":"heading in the direction you intended. Right. It doesn't mean you can't take"},{"startTime":1070.696,"endTime":1074.152,"body":"turns or enjoy the view or"},{"startTime":1074.328,"endTime":1078.008,"body":"have different experiences along the way. Everyone in the car could have a different"},{"startTime":1078.056,"endTime":1081.88,"body":"experience, but those guardrails keep you going in the right direction. And that's what map"},{"startTime":1081.912,"endTime":1085.604,"body":"move measure does. And so as a framework,"},{"startTime":1086.624,"endTime":1089.016,"body":"you asked me how I came up with it. So what I did is I"},{"startTime":1089.04,"endTime":1092.608,"body":"thought about the components of engagement strategy, and the"},{"startTime":1092.656,"endTime":1096.404,"body":"really important bookends of it are theory of change"},{"startTime":1096.824,"endTime":1100.576,"body":"and the engagement pyramid. Now, I didn't create, I didn't make up theory"},{"startTime":1100.6,"endTime":1104.24,"body":"of change. That would be ridiculous to claim that I did. So"},{"startTime":1104.312,"endTime":1108.144,"body":"you can go to the center of theory of change, like theoryofchange.org, and learn"},{"startTime":1108.224,"endTime":1111.952,"body":"all about it. Super academic. So while"},{"startTime":1112.008,"endTime":1115.6,"body":"I'm a great student, I really don't love being in school. I like"},{"startTime":1115.632,"endTime":1119.416,"body":"applying my knowledge. So what I did was also pull the best of"},{"startTime":1119.44,"endTime":1123.034,"body":"theory of change. And in my opinion, the best is the outcomes"},{"startTime":1123.144,"endTime":1126.774,"body":"pathway. So, a vision map. So, a"},{"startTime":1126.814,"endTime":1130.478,"body":"vision map is a pragmatic theory of change. You start with your vision"},{"startTime":1130.526,"endTime":1133.758,"body":"statement. And again, I believe most, if not all,"},{"startTime":1133.846,"endTime":1137.554,"body":"nonprofits have vision statements. And I would argue that"},{"startTime":1137.894,"endTime":1141.094,"body":"they are lofty and aspirational, as they should be,"},{"startTime":1141.214,"endTime":1144.806,"body":"and they're not unique, and they're probably not going to be"},{"startTime":1144.83,"endTime":1148.302,"body":"achieved by one organization alone. So, like a world"},{"startTime":1148.358,"endTime":1152.016,"body":"without homelessness or a world without hunger,"},{"startTime":1152.12,"endTime":1155.52,"body":"something like that is the vision. Exactly right. A vision"},{"startTime":1155.592,"endTime":1158.484,"body":"is a state of being that doesn't exist today."},{"startTime":1159.584,"endTime":1163.272,"body":"It's the outcome of your work. It's the result. It's the change you want to"},{"startTime":1163.288,"endTime":1166.992,"body":"create in the world. So a world without poverty"},{"startTime":1167.088,"endTime":1170.896,"body":"doesn't exist. But it's our vision that it is. So what the"},{"startTime":1170.92,"endTime":1173.864,"body":"vision map does, though, is it says, oh, my gosh, that's so big and heavy,"},{"startTime":1173.904,"endTime":1177.672,"body":"right? Our vision is huge. We slap an accountability"},{"startTime":1177.768,"endTime":1181.392,"body":"ceiling right across there, and an accountability says,"},{"startTime":1181.568,"endTime":1185.2,"body":"let's step below that and say, my nonprofit will be"},{"startTime":1185.232,"endTime":1188.864,"body":"accountable for creating these specific outcomes."},{"startTime":1188.984,"endTime":1192.672,"body":"So no matter how big or small or no matter"},{"startTime":1192.728,"endTime":1196.544,"body":"how much funding you have, your work will result in some sort of"},{"startTime":1196.584,"endTime":1200.184,"body":"change. So we articulate the change that leads to your"},{"startTime":1200.224,"endTime":1203.84,"body":"vision. So, to me, the vision map is the idea of these outcomes"},{"startTime":1203.952,"endTime":1207.784,"body":"work toward your vision, and they are outcomes we can be accountable"},{"startTime":1207.824,"endTime":1211.32,"body":"for. So that's the map. The move is,"},{"startTime":1211.512,"endTime":1215.224,"body":"how are we inviting people to participate in achieving these goals with"},{"startTime":1215.264,"endTime":1218.936,"body":"us? Because we know there's people who want to do that. Inviting people. Let's talk"},{"startTime":1218.96,"endTime":1222.792,"body":"about that word. Not forcing them, not coercing them, not. Convincing them, not getting"},{"startTime":1222.848,"endTime":1226.56,"body":"them, inviting them, not even asking. Right."},{"startTime":1226.672,"endTime":1230.152,"body":"It's offering and inviting. I like to think that way."},{"startTime":1230.328,"endTime":1234.168,"body":"So there's lots of ways people can become involved. So how are they moving with"},{"startTime":1234.216,"endTime":1238.016,"body":"you to achieve the goals on your map. And then the measure is"},{"startTime":1238.04,"endTime":1241.328,"body":"the engagement pyramid, which we already talked about. I learned"},{"startTime":1241.376,"endTime":1245.136,"body":"from other incredibly smart people. And what I did"},{"startTime":1245.16,"endTime":1248.76,"body":"is with the engagement pyramid, what that really is, is about saying not"},{"startTime":1248.792,"endTime":1251.96,"body":"everybody has enough time to be on your board. Not"},{"startTime":1251.992,"endTime":1255.16,"body":"everybody has enough money to be a, quote, major"},{"startTime":1255.232,"endTime":1259.008,"body":"donor. Not everybody can volunteer every"},{"startTime":1259.056,"endTime":1262.766,"body":"single week, but all the people who care about your mission"},{"startTime":1262.96,"endTime":1266.482,"body":"and want to achieve the same goals as you probably have something"},{"startTime":1266.578,"endTime":1270.418,"body":"to offer. So when you can measure that and"},{"startTime":1270.466,"endTime":1274.258,"body":"know how they've been engaging with you, you know the"},{"startTime":1274.306,"endTime":1277.834,"body":"right offer to make to the right people at the right"},{"startTime":1277.874,"endTime":1281.266,"body":"time. And that's what matmovemeasure does. It helps you"},{"startTime":1281.33,"endTime":1285.066,"body":"center all your conversations around shared goals, and it"},{"startTime":1285.09,"endTime":1288.538,"body":"helps you make the right offer based on how engaged that"},{"startTime":1288.586,"endTime":1292.396,"body":"supporter has shown they wish to be. And how"},{"startTime":1292.5,"endTime":1296.292,"body":"are you leveraging data in this process? Data"},{"startTime":1296.348,"endTime":1299.916,"body":"is in the measurement. You can only measure what you track. So in your"},{"startTime":1299.94,"endTime":1302.924,"body":"CRM, you probably have a lot of contact"},{"startTime":1303.044,"endTime":1306.876,"body":"records. Some way you record that. I know Julia,"},{"startTime":1307.06,"endTime":1310.812,"body":"I know Beth, I know whomever. You have all the people"},{"startTime":1310.908,"endTime":1314.676,"body":"who participate, and you're probably also logging in that they made a"},{"startTime":1314.7,"endTime":1318.196,"body":"gift or that they volunteered with you. All those entries in your"},{"startTime":1318.22,"endTime":1321.738,"body":"CRM, what we do is we add a value called the engagement"},{"startTime":1321.786,"endTime":1325.074,"body":"level. So the pyramid lines up all of those"},{"startTime":1325.154,"endTime":1328.794,"body":"interactions and assigns the engagement level."},{"startTime":1328.954,"endTime":1332.69,"body":"Engagement levels range from things like observing"},{"startTime":1332.802,"endTime":1336.362,"body":"and being aware to contributing and endorsing"},{"startTime":1336.458,"endTime":1340.25,"body":"and leading. That's the work I do with my nonprofit clients is"},{"startTime":1340.282,"endTime":1343.93,"body":"say, how do you feel about all of the ways people"},{"startTime":1344.082,"endTime":1347.69,"body":"are involved with you, and what level would you assign to that? So"},{"startTime":1347.722,"endTime":1351.426,"body":"when Julia volunteers, is she interacting with"},{"startTime":1351.45,"endTime":1354.734,"body":"you at the level of contributor? Is she acting as a leader?"},{"startTime":1355.234,"endTime":1358.874,"body":"And that pyramid is tapping the"},{"startTime":1358.914,"endTime":1362.746,"body":"data so that, think of it as another contact attribute that"},{"startTime":1362.77,"endTime":1366.21,"body":"you can use in segmentation. Right. People are always like, let me"},{"startTime":1366.242,"endTime":1369.97,"body":"segment my donors. Yes. Well, then that's only based on dollar"},{"startTime":1370.082,"endTime":1373.742,"body":"amounts given in a year. But you can say,"},{"startTime":1373.918,"endTime":1377.734,"body":"let me segment based on what level of engagement they've"},{"startTime":1377.774,"endTime":1381.126,"body":"achieved in addition to their donation history."},{"startTime":1381.31,"endTime":1385.062,"body":"And now you might have, because they're also a board"},{"startTime":1385.118,"endTime":1388.91,"body":"member. I've got my hands waving for all the people who can't actually see me"},{"startTime":1388.942,"endTime":1392.614,"body":"because I'm usually writing or drawing while I'm talking and I'm"},{"startTime":1392.654,"endTime":1396.238,"body":"imagining because the pyramid is three dimensional. Yes. And"},{"startTime":1396.406,"endTime":1400.238,"body":"people interact. So a board member is also a donor, could also be a"},{"startTime":1400.246,"endTime":1403.89,"body":"volunteer. As a board member, they're at the leader level of"},{"startTime":1403.922,"endTime":1407.674,"body":"engagement. My guess is you've recorded the fact that they're a board member"},{"startTime":1407.714,"endTime":1411.434,"body":"in your CRM, you've recorded the donations they've made, you record"},{"startTime":1411.514,"endTime":1415.17,"body":"those volunteer actions. That's how we do it."},{"startTime":1415.242,"endTime":1418.73,"body":"We run reports and we tap the data and we see what level"},{"startTime":1418.842,"endTime":1421.974,"body":"they've achieved, and you factor that into your messaging."},{"startTime":1422.594,"endTime":1426.386,"body":"So, I mean, the fundraiser, like everything that's on the"},{"startTime":1426.41,"endTime":1429.842,"body":"plate of today's fundraiser, I think the tendency"},{"startTime":1429.938,"endTime":1433.214,"body":"becomes, like you just said, new. More."},{"startTime":1433.954,"endTime":1437.754,"body":"How can we move from transactional interactions to"},{"startTime":1437.794,"endTime":1441.402,"body":"meaningful human connection? I would recommend"},{"startTime":1441.458,"endTime":1444.906,"body":"starting with the, you said earlier, affinity."},{"startTime":1445.09,"endTime":1448.898,"body":"Right? Every. So if you're a fundraiser and you're"},{"startTime":1448.986,"endTime":1452.682,"body":"thinking about the conversation you're about to have,"},{"startTime":1452.858,"endTime":1456.668,"body":"if you don't already know your donors affinity to"},{"startTime":1456.676,"endTime":1460.46,"body":"the organization, you could broaden that and think about which of"},{"startTime":1460.492,"endTime":1464.1,"body":"the goals on your vision map are they most aligned with."},{"startTime":1464.252,"endTime":1467.864,"body":"When you break your vision down to more tangible outcomes."},{"startTime":1468.324,"endTime":1471.828,"body":"Some people, you know, you think about different"},{"startTime":1471.916,"endTime":1475.548,"body":"areas of work. There's different ways to achieve that, right?"},{"startTime":1475.596,"endTime":1478.704,"body":"So some people may have an affinity to"},{"startTime":1479.044,"endTime":1482.244,"body":"actual housing. Some people may have the affinity to"},{"startTime":1482.364,"endTime":1486.048,"body":"the education programs you do for the people that you're providing"},{"startTime":1486.096,"endTime":1489.68,"body":"housing for. And those are two really different outcome."},{"startTime":1489.832,"endTime":1493.464,"body":"They're different ways of getting involved. So meaningful"},{"startTime":1493.504,"endTime":1497.352,"body":"relationships, I think, are grounded not only on trust, I think"},{"startTime":1497.368,"endTime":1500.0,"body":"we can all agree it has to start with trust. But if they're already supporting"},{"startTime":1500.032,"endTime":1503.664,"body":"you, they've demonstrated that. I think that's a great way to use that vision"},{"startTime":1503.704,"endTime":1507.504,"body":"map is what goals do they feel most aligned with?"},{"startTime":1507.664,"endTime":1510.67,"body":"And then ask them, how would they like to"},{"startTime":1510.702,"endTime":1514.51,"body":"contribute? You might learn about the fact that they"},{"startTime":1514.542,"endTime":1518.334,"body":"have a skill or they have a colleague or someone"},{"startTime":1518.374,"endTime":1521.886,"body":"in their network who can contribute in ways you didn't even notice"},{"startTime":1522.03,"endTime":1525.838,"body":"or know about before. And then what you've"},{"startTime":1525.886,"endTime":1529.638,"body":"done is invite them to participate in ways"},{"startTime":1529.726,"endTime":1533.222,"body":"they want to without you just asking for something specific"},{"startTime":1533.398,"endTime":1537.232,"body":"before you've explored that. How do we sort"},{"startTime":1537.248,"endTime":1541.048,"body":"of make this a system? So we want"},{"startTime":1541.176,"endTime":1544.872,"body":"every donor to have an individual donor journey, but obviously that's not scalable"},{"startTime":1544.968,"endTime":1548.624,"body":"or have an individual donor experience. So how do we sort of create"},{"startTime":1548.704,"endTime":1552.44,"body":"these donor experiences and journeys with"},{"startTime":1552.592,"endTime":1556.016,"body":"all of our donors or our donor segments without it becoming maybe too"},{"startTime":1556.08,"endTime":1559.776,"body":"cumbersome? When you've designed an engagement pyramid, I"},{"startTime":1559.8,"endTime":1563.288,"body":"use that as a. An example of journeying through"},{"startTime":1563.336,"endTime":1566.824,"body":"it. So if you knew somebody was interacting with you a"},{"startTime":1566.864,"endTime":1569.724,"body":"specific way, right, like they've made their first gift"},{"startTime":1570.544,"endTime":1574.044,"body":"and, you know, you want to basically offer them"},{"startTime":1574.384,"endTime":1578.184,"body":"an opportunity to stay where they're at, to step back"},{"startTime":1578.224,"endTime":1582.032,"body":"a little bit or step up. So the way I"},{"startTime":1582.048,"endTime":1585.488,"body":"say is you do things in threes. We hear that a lot, right? Don't ever"},{"startTime":1585.536,"endTime":1588.988,"body":"ask more than three things. Don't send an email with more than three bullet points."},{"startTime":1589.136,"endTime":1592.624,"body":"You know, it's sort of like the wisdom of three. And so"},{"startTime":1593.084,"endTime":1596.784,"body":"stepping back would be when you thank them for their gift."},{"startTime":1597.444,"endTime":1600.772,"body":"Although I suppose if, you know, I was really an expert in"},{"startTime":1600.788,"endTime":1604.268,"body":"fundraising. Right. You don't ask for a gift when you're thanking them for the gift,"},{"startTime":1604.316,"endTime":1607.98,"body":"but when you're communicating with a donor and you know that how much"},{"startTime":1608.012,"endTime":1611.724,"body":"they've donated in the past, you can solicit"},{"startTime":1611.764,"endTime":1615.468,"body":"another gift, but you can also offer them the opportunity"},{"startTime":1615.516,"endTime":1619.206,"body":"to read something that you've post it on your blog"},{"startTime":1619.27,"endTime":1622.714,"body":"or in your e newsletter to keep them aware of"},{"startTime":1623.094,"endTime":1626.758,"body":"the particular issue they were interested in when they made the gift. That's stepping"},{"startTime":1626.806,"endTime":1630.23,"body":"back. That's not giving their time, that's giving their"},{"startTime":1630.262,"endTime":1633.686,"body":"attention. But stepping up would be"},{"startTime":1633.75,"endTime":1637.558,"body":"inviting them to either, say, a volunteer event"},{"startTime":1637.726,"endTime":1640.926,"body":"or even a social"},{"startTime":1640.99,"endTime":1644.716,"body":"event, because now they're showing up in person, so they're"},{"startTime":1644.74,"endTime":1648.324,"body":"giving their time. Right. So that's where the engagement"},{"startTime":1648.364,"endTime":1651.144,"body":"pyramid, by defining the level"},{"startTime":1651.764,"endTime":1655.484,"body":"as what that supporter is giving of themselves, are they giving"},{"startTime":1655.524,"endTime":1659.284,"body":"their attention? Are they giving their time? Are they giving their"},{"startTime":1659.324,"endTime":1663.06,"body":"money? Are they giving leadership? Each of those"},{"startTime":1663.092,"endTime":1666.74,"body":"is increasing in engagement. So wherever they're at,"},{"startTime":1666.892,"endTime":1670.5,"body":"allow them an opportunity to step back, stay where they're at,"},{"startTime":1670.652,"endTime":1674.1,"body":"or step up. That feels very personal to the"},{"startTime":1674.132,"endTime":1677.916,"body":"supporter. Yes, but you can do that across your entire"},{"startTime":1677.98,"endTime":1681.612,"body":"supporter base when you track and measure the data."},{"startTime":1681.788,"endTime":1685.22,"body":"I think this is so important, and it goes with my"},{"startTime":1685.252,"endTime":1688.364,"body":"theme for this year, which is my word of the year's"},{"startTime":1688.404,"endTime":1692.132,"body":"intention, trying to get not only myself,"},{"startTime":1692.308,"endTime":1695.38,"body":"but the nonprofits I serve, to be more"},{"startTime":1695.412,"endTime":1698.604,"body":"intentional and less reactive and be more"},{"startTime":1698.644,"endTime":1702.484,"body":"proactive. And this is absolutely like"},{"startTime":1702.524,"endTime":1704.98,"body":"that. Rather than just say, oh, my gosh, what are we going to send out"},{"startTime":1705.012,"endTime":1708.836,"body":"to our entire email newsletter this week and create something and write it off"},{"startTime":1708.86,"endTime":1712.652,"body":"the cuff in five minutes and then send it out. You're actually being incredibly"},{"startTime":1712.748,"endTime":1715.916,"body":"intentional and having these meaningful interactions and"},{"startTime":1715.94,"endTime":1719.612,"body":"communication with your supporters with"},{"startTime":1719.788,"endTime":1723.444,"body":"the purpose to meet them where they're at, but also"},{"startTime":1723.564,"endTime":1727.344,"body":"encourage them to take the next step. Absolutely. And"},{"startTime":1727.684,"endTime":1731.148,"body":"taking that a step further or"},{"startTime":1731.276,"endTime":1734.344,"body":"bringing it back to the framework,"},{"startTime":1734.844,"endTime":1738.676,"body":"that idea of that segmenting the communications, and not sort"},{"startTime":1738.7,"endTime":1742.476,"body":"of, you know, what is it? Spraying and praying. Right. But"},{"startTime":1742.5,"endTime":1746.06,"body":"the segmentation, the engagement level, lets you do"},{"startTime":1746.092,"endTime":1749.444,"body":"that in a different way. So a lot of times I'm told that"},{"startTime":1749.484,"endTime":1753.204,"body":"what this work does or this framework does is help people think"},{"startTime":1753.244,"endTime":1756.78,"body":"about what they're already doing, but think about it in a new way, in a"},{"startTime":1756.812,"endTime":1760.396,"body":"different way than they've ever thought about it before. So even segmenting your list,"},{"startTime":1760.54,"endTime":1764.34,"body":"I was working with an organization that was in, like, environmental"},{"startTime":1764.372,"endTime":1767.916,"body":"conservation, and there was a lot of interest in the community"},{"startTime":1768.02,"endTime":1771.772,"body":"around single use plastic. So they"},{"startTime":1771.788,"endTime":1775.372,"body":"were going to do this campaign to educate and try and reduce"},{"startTime":1775.428,"endTime":1779.236,"body":"single use plastic. Now think about, if you're on the board of directors of"},{"startTime":1779.26,"endTime":1782.832,"body":"that organization, do you need to be told why that's important"},{"startTime":1782.988,"endTime":1786.592,"body":"and that you should just stop using plastic? Probably not,"},{"startTime":1786.648,"endTime":1790.496,"body":"right. You're a board member and you already know. So the message to a"},{"startTime":1790.52,"endTime":1794.304,"body":"board member about single use plastic might be more about how"},{"startTime":1794.344,"endTime":1797.52,"body":"they can share the information with the"},{"startTime":1797.592,"endTime":1801.408,"body":"organizations they work for. But the people on the e newsletter"},{"startTime":1801.456,"endTime":1805.272,"body":"list who haven't made a donation or volunteered yet might need to"},{"startTime":1805.288,"endTime":1809.122,"body":"be educated, right. So the message is different based"},{"startTime":1809.138,"endTime":1812.81,"body":"on how engaged the supporter is. So that engagement level can"},{"startTime":1812.842,"endTime":1816.682,"body":"really inform communications and"},{"startTime":1816.738,"endTime":1820.378,"body":"segmenting in ways. Right, that we haven't even thought about before. Just"},{"startTime":1820.426,"endTime":1824.082,"body":"looking at it spurs new ideas. How can we get our board members"},{"startTime":1824.178,"endTime":1827.986,"body":"involved in supporter engagement? Well, one"},{"startTime":1828.01,"endTime":1831.134,"body":"would hope they are, because they're on the board. One would hope."},{"startTime":1832.074,"endTime":1835.478,"body":"One would hope. But the way to help them get even more involved"},{"startTime":1835.586,"endTime":1839.262,"body":"is I often, I believe that"},{"startTime":1839.398,"endTime":1842.654,"body":"the board and the leadership team is where the vision map work"},{"startTime":1842.734,"endTime":1846.366,"body":"belongs, because it's very much, you know, going back to a strategic plan."},{"startTime":1846.51,"endTime":1850.302,"body":"It's very much about the organization's direction, like, where are we heading? What"},{"startTime":1850.318,"endTime":1853.998,"body":"are the big goals? And I think that a vision map actually will"},{"startTime":1854.046,"endTime":1857.374,"body":"help board members have conversations with"},{"startTime":1857.414,"endTime":1861.238,"body":"supporters more comfortably, if that's a word, right,"},{"startTime":1861.366,"endTime":1865.16,"body":"more easily. Because when you break that vision down and you have"},{"startTime":1865.232,"endTime":1868.848,"body":"more tangible, shorter term outcomes, even board members"},{"startTime":1868.936,"endTime":1872.432,"body":"can say they align most with certain outcomes on that map."},{"startTime":1872.568,"endTime":1875.824,"body":"And they can say, yeah, I really want to focus my conversations in this"},{"startTime":1875.864,"endTime":1879.504,"body":"area. This is where I'm really comfortable, and I happen"},{"startTime":1879.544,"endTime":1883.336,"body":"to know my friends are, or I'm my network. So they"},{"startTime":1883.36,"endTime":1887.16,"body":"can lock in on a specific one, two, or three of the outcomes on"},{"startTime":1887.192,"endTime":1890.892,"body":"that map, which makes it more personal. So when board"},{"startTime":1890.948,"endTime":1894.764,"body":"members feel more aligned with those outcomes, it's just easier"},{"startTime":1894.804,"endTime":1897.916,"body":"to talk about something that you really, really believe in. So even though we all"},{"startTime":1897.94,"endTime":1901.628,"body":"believe in the vision and we all believe in the mission, it can be too"},{"startTime":1901.676,"endTime":1905.348,"body":"big. And then I think it's the nonprofit leader's"},{"startTime":1905.396,"endTime":1908.876,"body":"job to look at their supporter base"},{"startTime":1909.02,"endTime":1912.628,"body":"and create lists of supporters by engagement"},{"startTime":1912.676,"endTime":1916.176,"body":"level that align with that board members goals"},{"startTime":1916.24,"endTime":1920.024,"body":"alignment as well, so that they're reaching out to people we"},{"startTime":1920.064,"endTime":1923.784,"body":"already know care the most about the same things. So"},{"startTime":1923.824,"endTime":1927.12,"body":"I do think it's always a partnership between staff and"},{"startTime":1927.152,"endTime":1930.648,"body":"board to be most successful. Where should"},{"startTime":1930.736,"endTime":1934.008,"body":"really small nonprofits start with"},{"startTime":1934.056,"endTime":1937.576,"body":"this? Either they might have a strategic plan."},{"startTime":1937.68,"endTime":1941.216,"body":"Maybe they are just starting with a CRM. Maybe they're just starting out."},{"startTime":1941.36,"endTime":1944.88,"body":"Where do you suggest they start first? With"},{"startTime":1944.912,"endTime":1948.512,"body":"supporter engagement. I've thought a lot about this because I think"},{"startTime":1948.568,"endTime":1952.232,"body":"the smaller organizations, I hope that you don't feel overlooked if"},{"startTime":1952.248,"endTime":1955.776,"body":"you're running a small organization. But we also know that"},{"startTime":1955.96,"endTime":1959.304,"body":"we already talked about it, right. We're all forced to live in this scarcity mindset."},{"startTime":1959.344,"endTime":1962.728,"body":"So when you're small, everything's even scarcer. I think the most"},{"startTime":1962.776,"endTime":1966.064,"body":"effective place to start is truly with a vision map,"},{"startTime":1966.144,"endTime":1969.92,"body":"because that helps absolutely everybody. And it"},{"startTime":1969.952,"endTime":1973.584,"body":"doesn't require specific technology, it doesn't require any"},{"startTime":1973.624,"endTime":1977.144,"body":"new tools. Right. All it requires is the team getting"},{"startTime":1977.184,"endTime":1980.888,"body":"together, having a cross functional conversation, invite"},{"startTime":1980.936,"endTime":1984.68,"body":"a couple board members and saying, in order to achieve our"},{"startTime":1984.712,"endTime":1988.512,"body":"vision, really, what is our work going"},{"startTime":1988.568,"endTime":1992.136,"body":"to achieve that moves us toward that? Let's think about the work we"},{"startTime":1992.16,"endTime":1995.76,"body":"do. Let's name the outcomes, name the results"},{"startTime":1995.832,"endTime":1999.662,"body":"of the work we're doing, how"},{"startTime":1999.718,"endTime":2002.714,"body":"those build on each other to achieve our vision."},{"startTime":2003.454,"endTime":2006.838,"body":"As an example, I actually had this experience"},{"startTime":2006.926,"endTime":2010.574,"body":"recently. I was working with the leader of a very"},{"startTime":2010.614,"endTime":2013.918,"body":"small nonprofit, and she said, we just don't"},{"startTime":2013.966,"endTime":2017.558,"body":"have enough resources to do this full framework."},{"startTime":2017.646,"endTime":2021.406,"body":"But could you work with us in a strategy session? And"},{"startTime":2021.43,"endTime":2024.918,"body":"in one three hour session with the board of directors and the"},{"startTime":2024.966,"endTime":2028.56,"body":"staff, we introduced the vision map. And"},{"startTime":2028.632,"endTime":2032.432,"body":"within minutes, one of the members there said, I"},{"startTime":2032.448,"endTime":2036.12,"body":"feel like I've been thinking about our work all wrong. I. About"},{"startTime":2036.312,"endTime":2039.728,"body":"the number of kids we serve all the time. And what I should be talking"},{"startTime":2039.776,"endTime":2043.576,"body":"about is the impact our work is making. Yes. And"},{"startTime":2043.6,"endTime":2047.168,"body":"so we took their vision and we started breaking it down to outcomes. And"},{"startTime":2047.216,"endTime":2050.92,"body":"almost instantly, there was a shift in how they were"},{"startTime":2050.952,"endTime":2054.747,"body":"thinking about what they do every single day, and everyone paused and"},{"startTime":2054.795,"endTime":2058.547,"body":"was able to look up. So I really believe vision"},{"startTime":2058.595,"endTime":2062.331,"body":"mapping can have an impact on an organization"},{"startTime":2062.467,"endTime":2066.283,"body":"that even I don't always expect. I watch it happen, and it's just"},{"startTime":2066.323,"endTime":2070.131,"body":"such a beautiful thing. It's a lot of what we do on the"},{"startTime":2070.147,"endTime":2073.883,"body":"school board, and I'm a school board member, and we"},{"startTime":2073.963,"endTime":2077.779,"body":"constantly philosophically disagree on the role of a school"},{"startTime":2077.811,"endTime":2081.58,"body":"board member. But I believe it's what you said. It's the"},{"startTime":2081.612,"endTime":2085.396,"body":"strategic vision, the plan, the seeing"},{"startTime":2085.42,"endTime":2088.756,"body":"the forest for the trees. The big picture. It's not"},{"startTime":2088.82,"endTime":2092.372,"body":"necessarily I'm talking as a board member, not a staff member, getting into the"},{"startTime":2092.388,"endTime":2096.012,"body":"weeds and dictating what type of paper you put in the"},{"startTime":2096.028,"endTime":2099.844,"body":"printer. That's just not my role. So I think that board members, I"},{"startTime":2099.884,"endTime":2103.524,"body":"agree. I also agree that a lot of board"},{"startTime":2103.564,"endTime":2107.25,"body":"members probably don't really know the"},{"startTime":2107.282,"endTime":2111.066,"body":"why or they understand it, but they've never really articulated it or had it"},{"startTime":2111.09,"endTime":2114.778,"body":"articulated to them. And they're so focused on numbers because maybe they're business people."},{"startTime":2114.946,"endTime":2118.586,"body":"So they're very focused on the spreadsheets and the financials and the"},{"startTime":2118.61,"endTime":2122.426,"body":"numbers and the outputs, where what you're talking about is really about"},{"startTime":2122.49,"endTime":2125.874,"body":"outcomes and impact and"},{"startTime":2125.914,"endTime":2129.41,"body":"legacy. I really think that is so valuable."},{"startTime":2129.602,"endTime":2133.13,"body":"I got the chills listening to you say that, which so"},{"startTime":2133.242,"endTime":2136.906,"body":"real quick little anecdote. It's a little woo woo. But I"},{"startTime":2136.93,"endTime":2140.642,"body":"love starting a session like what I described by having the vision"},{"startTime":2140.698,"endTime":2144.466,"body":"statement written, whether it's flip chart or whiteboard or whatever. And"},{"startTime":2144.49,"endTime":2148.282,"body":"then I ask everyone to close their eyes, and I've asked somebody in"},{"startTime":2148.298,"endTime":2151.442,"body":"advance and I invite them to read the vision out loud. So"},{"startTime":2151.578,"endTime":2154.842,"body":"everyone has their eyes closed and they're hearing the vision"},{"startTime":2154.898,"endTime":2158.174,"body":"statement read. And we pause and we read it again."},{"startTime":2158.554,"endTime":2161.854,"body":"And it's so powerful."},{"startTime":2162.594,"endTime":2166.386,"body":"Focusing on vision first and then"},{"startTime":2166.45,"endTime":2169.938,"body":"thinking about how the mission gets you there is"},{"startTime":2169.986,"endTime":2173.738,"body":"just, it's a perspective I feel nonprofit"},{"startTime":2173.786,"endTime":2177.458,"body":"leaders probably don't feel they have the luxury"},{"startTime":2177.546,"endTime":2180.994,"body":"to do. They don't have time to look up and think about these things. And"},{"startTime":2181.034,"endTime":2184.518,"body":"that's that shifting away from scarcity to abundance. But"},{"startTime":2184.606,"endTime":2187.834,"body":"again, when you hear your vision statement read to you,"},{"startTime":2188.254,"endTime":2191.674,"body":"you internalize it in a way that's different than when you just read it yourself."},{"startTime":2191.974,"endTime":2195.694,"body":"So where can people find you and learn more about you and work with you?"},{"startTime":2195.774,"endTime":2198.614,"body":"I'm sure there are going to be lots of interest after this"},{"startTime":2198.734,"endTime":2202.514,"body":"podcast. My website, first of all, and"},{"startTime":2203.174,"endTime":2204.806,"body":"everything is my name. So"},{"startTime":2204.87,"endTime":2208.454,"body":"bethsundersassociates.com is my website,"},{"startTime":2208.574,"endTime":2212.314,"body":"and I love connection and meaningful connections. So"},{"startTime":2212.354,"endTime":2215.978,"body":"LinkedIn is where I hang out and you can find me there really"},{"startTime":2216.026,"endTime":2219.866,"body":"easily as Beth Saunders as well. Yes, and I downloaded the"},{"startTime":2219.89,"endTime":2223.65,"body":"free guide that you have on your website. So if you go"},{"startTime":2223.682,"endTime":2227.466,"body":"to, I believe it's bethsondersassociates.com and"},{"startTime":2227.49,"endTime":2231.178,"body":"you can download a free guide, sign up for the newsletter and"},{"startTime":2231.266,"endTime":2234.97,"body":"get a lot of great free resources there. So I encourage everyone to"},{"startTime":2235.002,"endTime":2238.546,"body":"do that. Thanks so much, Beth, for being on the podcast, sharing your"},{"startTime":2238.57,"endTime":2242.086,"body":"wisdom. I appreciate being here. Thank you. Have a great day."},{"startTime":2242.11,"endTime":2242.834,"body":"Julia."},{"startTime":2249.334,"endTime":2253.086,"body":"Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show"},{"startTime":2253.19,"endTime":2256.782,"body":"and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed"},{"startTime":2256.838,"endTime":2260.63,"body":"today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite"},{"startTime":2260.662,"endTime":2264.462,"body":"podcast app, and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they"},{"startTime":2264.478,"endTime":2267.994,"body":"come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review,"},{"startTime":2268.114,"endTime":2271.93,"body":"because this tells other people that my podcast is worth"},{"startTime":2272.002,"endTime":2275.786,"body":"listening to, and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds"},{"startTime":2275.85,"endTime":2279.626,"body":"and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll"},{"startTime":2279.65,"endTime":2283.386,"body":"be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can"},{"startTime":2283.41,"endTime":2287.13,"body":"find me on instagram. Uliacampbell 77"},{"startTime":2287.322,"endTime":2290.494,"body":"keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn coins."}]}