{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":13.24,"endTime":17.86,"body":"Hello and welcome to insure tech"},{"startTime":13.24,"endTime":17.86,"body":"briefly, a quick legal review involving"},{"startTime":17.889,"endTime":19.82,"body":"innovations in the insurance space."},{"startTime":20.4,"endTime":24.049,"body":"My name is Guinevere Anderson from"},{"startTime":20.4,"endTime":24.049,"body":"Clark Hill, and I'm joined today by"},{"startTime":24.049,"endTime":27.689,"body":"my colleague, Robert Tomlinson, who's"},{"startTime":24.049,"endTime":27.689,"body":"a partner in the firm's insurance"},{"startTime":27.689,"endTime":31.42,"body":"practice and co chair of the firm's"},{"startTime":27.689,"endTime":31.42,"body":"emerging technologies practice."},{"startTime":32.075,"endTime":32.744,"body":"Hello, going to be here."},{"startTime":33.125,"endTime":34.105,"body":"What's our topic today?"},{"startTime":34.845,"endTime":39.235,"body":"Well, you and I were recently talking"},{"startTime":34.845,"endTime":39.235,"body":"about lead gens and investigations that"},{"startTime":39.235,"endTime":42.624,"body":"are going on in various departments"},{"startTime":39.235,"endTime":42.624,"body":"of insurance across the country."},{"startTime":42.995,"endTime":45.705,"body":"I know you were caught in some of"},{"startTime":42.995,"endTime":45.705,"body":"these investigations on behalf of"},{"startTime":45.705,"endTime":49.934,"body":"clients, but can we talk high level"},{"startTime":45.705,"endTime":49.934,"body":"about why lead gens have drawn the"},{"startTime":49.935,"endTime":51.715,"body":"interest of these regulatory bodies?"},{"startTime":52.735,"endTime":53.155,"body":"Sure."},{"startTime":53.215,"endTime":54.935,"body":"Um, let's go back to the beginning."},{"startTime":55.695,"endTime":60.144,"body":"Regular listeners of this podcast will"},{"startTime":55.695,"endTime":60.144,"body":"remember that back in the late spring"},{"startTime":60.144,"endTime":66.044,"body":"of 2021, Google had mandated that"},{"startTime":60.144,"endTime":66.044,"body":"any advertiser of health insurance on"},{"startTime":66.044,"endTime":68.114,"body":"its website, hold a producer license."},{"startTime":68.175,"endTime":69.704,"body":"That's an insurance producer license."},{"startTime":70.185,"endTime":74.454,"body":"I helped dozens of lead gens create"},{"startTime":70.185,"endTime":74.454,"body":"agencies and get them properly licensed in"},{"startTime":74.454,"endTime":76.565,"body":"50 states in order that they be compliant."},{"startTime":76.96,"endTime":80.26,"body":"Not with insurance regulations,"},{"startTime":76.96,"endTime":80.26,"body":"but specifically with respect"},{"startTime":80.29,"endTime":82.58,"body":"to Google's own mandate."},{"startTime":83.39,"endTime":87.19,"body":"Now, Robert, you said with Google's"},{"startTime":83.39,"endTime":87.19,"body":"mandate, not insurance regulations."},{"startTime":87.75,"endTime":90.47,"body":"Are lead gens engaged"},{"startTime":87.75,"endTime":90.47,"body":"in licensable activity?"},{"startTime":91.215,"endTime":95.675,"body":"Well, they're not, um, and that's"},{"startTime":91.215,"endTime":95.675,"body":"the, that's the interesting"},{"startTime":95.675,"endTime":97.155,"body":"part of this to be clear."},{"startTime":97.365,"endTime":102.205,"body":"Legion is typically, um, to do search"},{"startTime":97.365,"endTime":102.205,"body":"engine optimization to find customers"},{"startTime":102.205,"endTime":103.394,"body":"that are interested in products."},{"startTime":103.805,"endTime":107.254,"body":"In this case, insurance products,"},{"startTime":103.805,"endTime":107.254,"body":"insurance products are a rich field"},{"startTime":107.254,"endTime":110.975,"body":"for legions because everyone buys"},{"startTime":107.254,"endTime":110.975,"body":"insurance, sometimes voluntarily"},{"startTime":110.975,"endTime":114.766,"body":"life, pet, medical, sometimes"},{"startTime":110.975,"endTime":114.766,"body":"involuntary auto home workers comp."},{"startTime":114.766,"endTime":118.979,"body":"The legion industry has been"},{"startTime":114.766,"endTime":118.979,"body":"around since the early aughts."},{"startTime":119.31,"endTime":121.789,"body":"And it's never been a licensable activity."},{"startTime":121.89,"endTime":126.85,"body":"It's Google that has, um, thrust"},{"startTime":121.89,"endTime":126.85,"body":"the lead gens into the arms"},{"startTime":126.85,"endTime":128.169,"body":"of the insurance regulators."},{"startTime":129.109,"endTime":130.0,"body":"So what happened?"},{"startTime":130.16,"endTime":132.269,"body":"Are they engaged in"},{"startTime":130.16,"endTime":132.269,"body":"different activity now?"},{"startTime":133.059,"endTime":134.019,"body":"No, not at all."},{"startTime":134.219,"endTime":137.57,"body":"Uh, you know, and, and obviously"},{"startTime":134.219,"endTime":137.57,"body":"there are some qualifications."},{"startTime":137.57,"endTime":140.54,"body":"There are some lead gens and some"},{"startTime":137.57,"endTime":140.54,"body":"that I have set up who have seen"},{"startTime":140.56,"endTime":144.7,"body":"the, um, the advantage of being"},{"startTime":140.56,"endTime":144.7,"body":"producers and have therefore"},{"startTime":144.7,"endTime":146.19,"body":"gone out and got some commission."},{"startTime":146.535,"endTime":153.765,"body":"But by and large, um, you know, Google"},{"startTime":146.535,"endTime":153.765,"body":"was, you know, was undoubtedly being"},{"startTime":153.765,"endTime":157.644,"body":"bombarded by complaints from consumers"},{"startTime":153.765,"endTime":157.644,"body":"complaining about advertisers on their"},{"startTime":157.644,"endTime":162.864,"body":"platform, in particular, in connection"},{"startTime":157.644,"endTime":162.864,"body":"with the acquisition of health insurance."},{"startTime":163.385,"endTime":168.905,"body":"In response, they rather cleverly devised"},{"startTime":163.385,"endTime":168.905,"body":"a scheme by where they, they outsourced"},{"startTime":168.905,"endTime":170.855,"body":"the regulation of insurance advertising."},{"startTime":171.205,"endTime":174.655,"body":"specifically health insurance on"},{"startTime":171.205,"endTime":174.655,"body":"its own platform to the insurance"},{"startTime":174.655,"endTime":176.165,"body":"departments in all 50 states."},{"startTime":177.875,"endTime":178.895,"body":"Just health insurance?"},{"startTime":179.335,"endTime":181.484,"body":"Is there something special"},{"startTime":179.335,"endTime":181.484,"body":"about health insurance?"},{"startTime":183.255,"endTime":187.435,"body":"And will there be a move by Google"},{"startTime":183.255,"endTime":187.435,"body":"and other platforms to license"},{"startTime":187.435,"endTime":189.304,"body":"advertisements of insurance products?"},{"startTime":190.195,"endTime":192.435,"body":"Well, that remains to"},{"startTime":190.195,"endTime":192.435,"body":"be seen, that last part."},{"startTime":192.435,"endTime":194.755,"body":"But yes, health insurance"},{"startTime":192.435,"endTime":194.755,"body":"is special in many ways."},{"startTime":195.175,"endTime":198.775,"body":"Um, first, it's a huge market, both"},{"startTime":195.175,"endTime":198.775,"body":"in terms of the number of insurers"},{"startTime":198.775,"endTime":199.875,"body":"and the gross written premium."},{"startTime":200.485,"endTime":203.635,"body":"Second, it's a vital, it's a"},{"startTime":200.485,"endTime":203.635,"body":"vital product for people's lives."},{"startTime":203.795,"endTime":205.404,"body":"Um, people's lives depend on it."},{"startTime":205.725,"endTime":207.995,"body":"It's not like pet insurance"},{"startTime":205.725,"endTime":207.995,"body":"or renter's insurance."},{"startTime":208.584,"endTime":212.765,"body":"And third, a vast majority of the"},{"startTime":208.584,"endTime":212.765,"body":"consumers of health insurance, um,"},{"startTime":212.785,"endTime":214.285,"body":"that are being advertised are elderly."},{"startTime":214.674,"endTime":218.695,"body":"A vulnerable population, and,"},{"startTime":214.674,"endTime":218.695,"body":"you know, I'm sure, you know, a"},{"startTime":218.695,"endTime":220.224,"body":"vulnerable population that votes."},{"startTime":221.125,"endTime":224.294,"body":"So, insurance commissioners across"},{"startTime":221.125,"endTime":224.294,"body":"the country are typically appointed"},{"startTime":224.304,"endTime":228.654,"body":"by the state's governor, and they're"},{"startTime":224.304,"endTime":228.654,"body":"very sensitive to elderly consumers, i."},{"startTime":228.694,"endTime":228.964,"body":"e."},{"startTime":228.984,"endTime":233.475,"body":"elderly voters who are having difficulty"},{"startTime":228.984,"endTime":233.475,"body":"with insurance products as they should be."},{"startTime":235.025,"endTime":239.035,"body":"Will Google move to insist on producers"},{"startTime":235.025,"endTime":239.035,"body":"licensing for auto home and life?"},{"startTime":239.065,"endTime":239.885,"body":"I really don't know."},{"startTime":240.475,"endTime":243.155,"body":"A lot depends on the market today."},{"startTime":243.165,"endTime":246.855,"body":"Google's Internet platform is"},{"startTime":243.165,"endTime":246.855,"body":"the proverbial 800 pound gorilla."},{"startTime":247.245,"endTime":251.424,"body":"If you want to be successful and be"},{"startTime":247.245,"endTime":251.424,"body":"a major lead, Jen, and the insurance"},{"startTime":251.424,"endTime":255.144,"body":"products, you have to advertise on"},{"startTime":251.424,"endTime":255.144,"body":"Google that could quickly change."},{"startTime":255.234,"endTime":259.769,"body":"And now with chat, and other"},{"startTime":255.234,"endTime":259.769,"body":"innovations, who knows where we'll be."},{"startTime":259.959,"endTime":263.0,"body":"Uh, there will be a multiplicity"},{"startTime":259.959,"endTime":263.0,"body":"of platforms or how SEO market"},{"startTime":263.039,"endTime":264.63,"body":"will work even a year from now."},{"startTime":265.42,"endTime":269.45,"body":"Add to that commissions on auto"},{"startTime":265.42,"endTime":269.45,"body":"home and life are nowhere near as"},{"startTime":269.45,"endTime":271.5,"body":"profitable as say Medicare Advantage."},{"startTime":272.03,"endTime":275.33,"body":"And so the cost of creating a licensed"},{"startTime":272.03,"endTime":275.33,"body":"agency and keeping it compliant"},{"startTime":275.559,"endTime":276.979,"body":"might be a real barrier to entry."},{"startTime":278.099,"endTime":279.01,"body":"Very interesting."},{"startTime":279.809,"endTime":283.87,"body":"So why are these legions now as"},{"startTime":279.809,"endTime":283.87,"body":"licensed insurance producers?"},{"startTime":284.39,"endTime":288.109,"body":"In the crosshairs of these regulatory"},{"startTime":284.39,"endTime":288.109,"body":"bodies in a way that traditional"},{"startTime":288.109,"endTime":293.949,"body":"agencies, carriers and are not"},{"startTime":288.109,"endTime":293.949,"body":"well, it's for a number of reasons."},{"startTime":294.659,"endTime":296.349,"body":"You know, regulators is a general rule."},{"startTime":296.45,"endTime":298.359,"body":"They're unfamiliar with"},{"startTime":296.45,"endTime":298.359,"body":"lead gen practices."},{"startTime":298.94,"endTime":302.02,"body":"For example, these lead gens,"},{"startTime":298.94,"endTime":302.02,"body":"although licensed as producers"},{"startTime":302.249,"endTime":305.64,"body":"continue to sell leads to carriers,"},{"startTime":302.249,"endTime":305.64,"body":"agencies and other producers."},{"startTime":305.659,"endTime":308.869,"body":"They themselves are not"},{"startTime":305.659,"endTime":308.869,"body":"acting on these leads."},{"startTime":309.04,"endTime":313.03,"body":"Again, as a general rule, and they've been"},{"startTime":309.04,"endTime":313.03,"body":"doing this for more than a decade, but now"},{"startTime":313.03,"endTime":316.68,"body":"they're coming under the purview of the"},{"startTime":313.03,"endTime":316.68,"body":"insurance department across the insurance"},{"startTime":316.68,"endTime":321.519,"body":"departments across the country because"},{"startTime":316.68,"endTime":321.519,"body":"they're licensed prior to 2021 complaints"},{"startTime":321.519,"endTime":326.279,"body":"from consumers about, for example,"},{"startTime":321.519,"endTime":326.279,"body":"their contact information being sold to"},{"startTime":326.279,"endTime":330.05,"body":"multiple parties was not a problem that"},{"startTime":326.279,"endTime":330.05,"body":"was handled by the insurance department."},{"startTime":330.719,"endTime":332.929,"body":"Additionally, lead gems"},{"startTime":330.719,"endTime":332.929,"body":"are now ubiquitous."},{"startTime":333.544,"endTime":337.294,"body":"Almost everyone looking for an insurance"},{"startTime":333.544,"endTime":337.294,"body":"product turns to the Internet rather"},{"startTime":337.294,"endTime":340.875,"body":"than stopping by a local insurance"},{"startTime":337.294,"endTime":340.875,"body":"agency down the block or a local"},{"startTime":340.875,"endTime":343.394,"body":"strip mall over the next few years."},{"startTime":343.965,"endTime":347.315,"body":"Mostly through litigation insurance"},{"startTime":343.965,"endTime":347.315,"body":"departments and other regulatory"},{"startTime":347.315,"endTime":348.945,"body":"bodies will become more familiar."},{"startTime":349.225,"endTime":353.215,"body":"With lead gen practices, I know this"},{"startTime":349.225,"endTime":353.215,"body":"firsthand and they'll ultimately see the"},{"startTime":353.215,"endTime":355.035,"body":"value that the lead gens are providing."},{"startTime":355.925,"endTime":359.564,"body":"And perhaps lead gens will also"},{"startTime":355.925,"endTime":359.564,"body":"change their practices to accommodate"},{"startTime":359.594,"endTime":361.005,"body":"some of these regulatory bodies."},{"startTime":363.284,"endTime":364.025,"body":"Thank you, Robert."},{"startTime":364.025,"endTime":365.094,"body":"That's very interesting."},{"startTime":365.614,"endTime":368.674,"body":"Uh, we look forward to following"},{"startTime":365.614,"endTime":368.674,"body":"up on how this friction between"},{"startTime":368.675,"endTime":371.975,"body":"insurance departments and lead gens"},{"startTime":368.675,"endTime":371.975,"body":"works out over the next few years."},{"startTime":373.395,"endTime":373.625,"body":"Yep."},{"startTime":373.665,"endTime":374.485,"body":"It'll be interesting."},{"startTime":374.565,"endTime":378.025,"body":"Clark Hill is playing a major role in"},{"startTime":374.565,"endTime":378.025,"body":"trying to successfully integrate legions"},{"startTime":378.055,"endTime":381.835,"body":"into the value chain of delivering"},{"startTime":378.055,"endTime":381.835,"body":"insurance products to us consumers."},{"startTime":381.835,"endTime":385.105,"body":"And we will get back to you and"},{"startTime":381.835,"endTime":385.105,"body":"our listeners on any progress."},{"startTime":397.124,"endTime":401.685,"body":"This podcast is intended for general"},{"startTime":397.124,"endTime":401.685,"body":"education and informational purposes only."},{"startTime":402.11,"endTime":405.81,"body":"and should not be regarded as either"},{"startTime":402.11,"endTime":405.81,"body":"legal advice or a legal opinion."},{"startTime":406.4,"endTime":409.77,"body":"You should not act upon or use"},{"startTime":406.4,"endTime":409.77,"body":"this publication or any of its"},{"startTime":409.77,"endTime":412.099,"body":"contents for any specific situation."},{"startTime":412.839,"endTime":415.579,"body":"Recipients are cautioned to"},{"startTime":412.839,"endTime":415.579,"body":"obtain legal advice from their"},{"startTime":415.579,"endTime":418.94,"body":"legal counsel with respect to"},{"startTime":415.579,"endTime":418.94,"body":"any decision or course of action"},{"startTime":418.96,"endTime":421.12,"body":"contemplated in a specific situation."},{"startTime":421.12,"endTime":425.68,"body":"Clark Hill PLC and its attorneys"},{"startTime":421.12,"endTime":425.68,"body":"provide legal advice only after"},{"startTime":425.68,"endTime":429.089,"body":"establishing an attorney client"},{"startTime":425.68,"endTime":429.089,"body":"relationship through a written"},{"startTime":429.22,"endTime":431.01,"body":"attorney client engagement agreement."},{"startTime":431.844,"endTime":434.594,"body":"This recording does not"},{"startTime":431.844,"endTime":434.594,"body":"establish an attorney client"},{"startTime":434.594,"endTime":436.235,"body":"relationship with any recipient."}]}