NANO Tech Drop-in for Glycol | with Berkin Arikan – CEO of HydroMX

Today I get to sit down with Berkin Arikan CEO of HydroMX. 

For decades propylene glycol (PG) and Ethylene Glycol (EG) have been the gold standards for heat transfer fluid used in many process cooling applications. 

 HydroMX has a potentially game-changing product entering the market now that energy efficiency and carbon footprint reduction are on the minds of many companies. 

 Berkin shares how HydroMX has leveraged Nano-Technology to achieve some interesting benchmarks within the thermal fluids market space. 

 Highlights of some of the discussion topics covered in this podcast on the HydroMX Product:

 ** Product can be retrofitted into an existing system running PG & EG. 

 ** HydroMX case studies have found a minimum of 20% improvement in heat transfer capability even at concentrations of 50%. In many cases, sites running this product exceed 30% heat transfer improvements. 

 ** HydroMx guarantees the performance, and some restrictions may apply. Check with HydroMX for the latest details. 

 ** Even at concentrations of 50% HydroMX and 50% water, there is limited to no change in process fluid pressure drop over the system running straight water. 

 If you are an end user of service contractor that uses or services hydronic systems running glycol, you should find this episode interesting.

 Disclosure statement: Processchilleracademy.com, Skilledtraderescue.com, nor Legacy Companies, LLC endorses this product. HydroMX is not a sponsor of our show. If this project is potentially a good fit for your application, we have provided contact information in this episode's show notes to contact HydroMX directly to get your questions answered.

Video (and audio only) versions are available at these sites:

ProcessAcademy.com à https://bit.ly/3HLOXDF

SkilledTradeRescue.com à https://bit.ly/3Cirskn

This episode is also distributed on most podcast networks such as Spotify and Apple Podcast. 

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Transcript

So today I'm talking to Birkin. Aircon. I got that right. Close enough. Perfect. All right, great. He's with hydro mix. And I found out about this product a couple months ago. And I thought it was kind of intriguing because this is a different technology from traditional glycols. Guys. So this has to do with, you know you're running. There's gazillions of systems out there that are running propylene glycol, ethylene glycol, PG, eg, or water. I thought this was a really interesting product because it's based on nanotechnology. And nanotechnology is very interesting. We, back in my chiller days, we used to build process chillers for companies that develop nanotechnology products. Anyway. So Birkin, welcome to the show. And tell me, give us a little bio on you and tell us about you know, how HydroMax came about?

Absolutely. Thanks for having me morning. Well, man, make make it make a elevator pitch. What 100 wishes you had was a nanotechnology product. It's a nano fluid. And I was doing a lot of business consulting in Europe. And they hired me as a consultant HydroMax. Back when I was in Europe, and first I had, believe it or not, I had a very much interest in nanotechnology. Back in the day, when we had the oil factory, my father and I. And I knew a lot things about Nanos, but then back in the day, there was super expensive since 2008 2009, as technology advances, so is the the making of now particles became super cheap. Now, back in the day, it was super expensive. So we pretty much didn't do much, but I learned a great deal of them. And when the traditional technology I said too good to be true, right? This is the cannot do the things that they claim they will do. So well, it became true. I mentioned in a company manner capital, and we became an American company. Now we have a factory in New York or New York based in Queens, we have a couple of offices in the city, then this became one of the leading technologies for H back industry to fight carbon emissions. So that's where I guess the whole conversation pretty much boiled down to and because ah back in industry, the lipsticks reached a limit where they can go from here is nobody knows. So we're looking at other technologies besides the H fac. So now we're in the heat transfer business is every H HVAC unit at the end of the day is a heat exchanger, right? That's where we add a lot of value and reduce consumption of the associated H HVAC equipment.

So this product is a drop in if you will, for let's let's say create a scenario here, you've got a data center, you got a commercial office building, something like that, that's running a large tonnage 500 and up. Centrifugal chiller. And, you know, you what you're saying is this nanotechnology, you have the ability to drain down the existing glycol, whether it be PG or eg in these systems and drop in your product at the same concentrations pretty much. And they'll be able to achieve what as far as improvements in?

Absolutely, yeah, Martin, we're not only beating glycol, we're beating water. So we do have a environment product declaration document, which was all the data was verified, and certified by a panel of experts, led by a gentleman professor by the name of Thomas Gloria, who happens to be the Director of Harvard University. Well, the technology or the science behind HydroMax is is a well known to the world. DOD there are many hurdles with the technology, not with the product, but the technology. And the first main problem is that toxicology is not that nanofluids work. They all work to a certain extent. But can they clear toxicology guidelines put forward by FDA, that's the key. We're the only nano fluid company on the planet that cleared FDA regulations. And that would only commercial one out there.

So you could literally dump this stuff down the drain and you don't have

an issue. Hmm, well, well, ethylene you cannot dump down than the drain but properly hydrate mix, yes, you can just drain it. Yeah, as a matter of fact, not only can drain it, but we have incidental food contact clearance. That means if a certain amount of HydroMax drops your meal, you can eat it. Right? Well. I did one thing, but yeah, that's good.

That's so interesting. So yeah, I'm looking at your website here. And what kind of caught my eye when I was doing the workup for this show was your case studies. Right? And you've got a lot of them in here. Surprisingly, you've got office buildings, data centers, government and public health care and schools. It mom it

is this is a discuss this this case studies that we have here. Now, installations obviously, we have hundreds of installations globally. And believe it or not only India, now, we have over 50 case studies, and India is kind of become a workhorse. India did not require the stringent FDA regulations clearance. So India had a kind of lead start on on us. So, and we're not as you see, we're not sharing in Indian case studies here. Well, again, what toxicology the main hurdle is the Engineering Society? Yeah, that's is a big problem with new technologies. Yeah,

it's, I get it, because it's, I guess, your challenge is making connection with what I call early adopters. Right? So these are these are individuals that, you know, are open to, you know, taking the risk, if you will, of going in with a newer product, you know, glycols have been around glycol, heat transfer fluid in the mechanical world have been around forever. And it's pretty widely accepted that, you know, this is what you use if you want to have freeze protection. Right. Yeah. And so I get it, I have a patent on economizer technology for process chillers. Beautiful. It just took forever to get, you know, the engineering community to accept it. Right. It's just,

we deal with with nanotechnology. There are I mean, if I may, I have every every word you're saying I have maybe 10 senses to add, unfortunately, because I'm sitting in the committee's in New York for new technology, bite carbon, right. Neos, biggest carbon generator in the building's not the course. Right. And Manhattan, obviously, is has major problems. And now that the government is telling all the building owners to reduce the carbons. They don't know how, how, in the world it building. You know, it doesn't have to be as big as Empire State, right? Once that we have any building over 50,000 square feet, how are you gonna do it? Right? It's, it's this, this is why we come in the new technologies and engineers. Unfortunately, they're still looking at the old books. The formula for a nano of fluid efficiency was written by a gentleman named Maxwell in 1881. And they're still using the same formula, which has nothing to do what we do back then didn't have nano particles, they had micron level particles at best. So

Birkin, what you're talking about, though, when you say carbon footprint, let me make sure that I'm understanding this correctly. So what you're referring to is the increase in in heat transfer will reduce the runtime hours on the equipment. So less energy consumed means less energy needing to be generated, and so on. So that's, that's the key what you're talking about when you're saying carbon footprint, right?

I could give you examples if you want. For example, you have we're right now in the state of Minnesota, where our founder company's founder investor companies are operating. The graciously state of Minnesota put aside big chunk of money to test HydroMax right. The first installation was in a government building on the chiller application. One chiller dedicated chiller to one air handling unit simple it could not be simpler than this. Okay?

Is it this one on the right here,

the best a heat recovery loop for example, okay, there's two there's no heater, just a straight heat exchanger interaction. So in this case, I'm gonna make wrap it up really, really easy for you. You have a chiller pumps up, you know, 44 degrees water right 5444 As a setup goes directly to an air handling unit only serves one area one space, what you're seeing with high drum mix is increased the delta T on the air handling unit. So what happens? The Q famous Q calculation mass times delta t times right? Especially in this case, there's one specifically because water to air. So you have CFM times delta t is your VT, pretty much, right? So you have the same vgtu. With what now less fluid, because delta T is wider, right? So what happens, the return temperature to turn fluid bypass wealth goes down, return temperature to toe fluid is now cooler. So delta T on the on your chiller is lower. What happens your children's this? Okay? It's a various This is one of the scenarios that one wants to engineers hired by the state of Minnesota. So this, they could not believe it down. There's two Oh, now we know what you're doing. So behavior of the chiller changed air handling in a change even in some terms, CFM, or the air handling unit decreased? Because this they were satisfying the room at a faster pace, because of the wider Delta T's.

Well, that that actually this kind of making my head spin a little bit. Right. So I knew I Yeah. So yeah, if you have less runtime, on a chiller, fully loaded chiller, if you have less runtime on it, then I guess in theory, I mean, you guys haven't been around long enough to really probably capture this data. But you know, according to ASHRAE, these mechanical machines will last 15 to 18 years, obviously longer if they're if they're, you know, well maintained. So in theory, if they're running less than they're less than that, yeah, then you have a reduction in not only reduction in energy usage, carbon footprint. But I guess you could make an argument, right for lower maintenance cost and potentially a better return on your capital investment. Right? Because Because maybe last little

bit longer, right. Martin, you hit the nail right? On the head? Yeah, okay. That's exactly what we do. And that is why OEMs do not like us, because you make their products last so much longer. A compressor manufacturer give you 20,000 Our, you know, a runtime, hey, you know what, your compressor is going to last so much longer, that they don't have to replace it. So now now you're understanding why we're having so much issues with the OEMs. That's exactly why. And, and, and we are now getting demand from the end user. And user demand is going to change everything. And now that the cotton became a big problem for buildings, and especially cities like New York City, they want to they want to electrify this industry. They want to move away from fossil fuels, no gas, no oil, no none. They want to use only heat pumps for both heating and cooling.

Right, they're doing that in California. Yep,

same thing, what's gonna happen those Heat pumps are not even close to pump 180 water that your infrastructure is set up for. So they need products like ours, they want to get creative by adding by taking a lot of rentable space by adding water tanks to make ice capture heat from that process to influx that thing into the buildings. This whole thing is with the with the electrification movement that actually has global by the way, this is not only New York and we're seeing this same in Netherlands. We're seeing the same in Germany, especially now with what's going on with Russia. Okay, so now the understanding where we are why we are sitting in the center of all these movements. That's why I don't have time to answer calls anymore. People calling they want to learn more about our technology. Yeah. And we are guaranteeing 20% efficiency on any kind of HF equipment closed loop HF equipment, we are guaranteed.

So broken Okay, so let me let me kind of I I'm putting my my, my business owner, technician hat on now. All right, so you're telling me that this product if you've got a large industrial or large to medium size brewery, let's just do that. You got a brewery, Budweiser big guys, they use these monster chillers? Yep. And let's just say you know, they're they're running a 5050 mix of propylene glycol PG, yet Alright, so you're telling me that you can put this product in the same concentration, right 5050 Mix and you can provide this same heat transfer, excuse me stretch that you can provide the same freeze protection. So 5050, that gets you down to minus 30. On a PG system, you guys get about the same freeze protection performance. We include that to all the freeze protection what so what would your freeze point be

a 50? is probably the 35. My okay,

my is 35. Okay, that's good. And then this product minimum, you're saying will provide a 20% better heat transfer performance than than water?

Not only we're, we're saying that we're guaranteeing that. And also, we're backing that up with a guaranteed three year ROI.

So here's my other question. Yeah. So

it's not it's not only we're guaranteeing your efficiency, we're guaranteeing the ROI. And let me take the let me just increase the ante a little bit more here. Not only we're saying that, but we're only also giving you a guaranteed savings contract, guaranteed performance contract. So if the fluid does not perform, we're taking it back, which never happens. Obviously, we're putting whatever you had before. Yeah, okay. Well, that's

certainly a pretty compelling, you know, argument, I guess the again, the trick is, is getting, getting the word out, you know, about about what you're doing. So have you? What's your, what's your target client for this particular product? Birkin? Like, who? Who are your early adopters that you've discovered so far?

Well, that's a great question. Thank you. One, the early adaptors are usually the end users who have problems you have, not only look, here's here is let me just take two steps back. When I increase your efficiency, you can either increase your Corp, you cannot save money, but increase production, for example, we were working with them, I don't want to name two companies, but we're working with global level. plastic injection companies, right? Models, you know, the the bottleneck of every technology for especially in plastic injection is the cooling time. You have this big mold that he had to call him up once. Once you know, liquid polyurethane grows in there. And you have to, you know, could average for example, bottle for Coke takes about 10 to 11 seconds to cool down. We reduce that to nine seconds.

Well, yeah, cuz you have more heat transfer. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

So there's, so we're not saving money here. But we're increasing production capacity over 24/7 Running factory by 10% per year.

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You know, we know what that means. Right? So right it's the same thing for same thing for that we is our very famous Virginia Polytechnical University case study. They had a problem they had an AI required huge server power and NASA donated 12 Chiel door rack high density units, which is a 50 Kw but guess what you have what do you have NASA Houston we have problem. Florida large impact. Virginia has has same climate as Buffalo, New York, which we have no idea I mean, did you

know that but that makes sense.

And that's us over there. This is they they came up with this take the AI with limited space, they put glycol in there, they had dry clothes on the roof. Guess what happened? No more 50 kW, right. And we were working with Oak Ridge National Lab at the time for, you know, different heat pump technology. Anyway, so he, Oak Ridge National Lab recommended us to us, and they never questioned it. They purchased a fluid. He's told it to ces 2017. And we were just starting back in the day. I was like, oh my god, routine for technical basket for production. We're rich. Yes, it's gonna be a phenomenal thing. And since then, they predicted Ebola viruses, periphery safe periphery with this same AI that 100 Mix is cooling it. And that's pretty much our claim to fame so far.

So you were out at Oak Ridge, we on the nuclear decommissioning side. Is that what you guys were on?

At? Oh, we signed a very strict NDA with them. Okay, okay. Yeah, they needed help, because they had to use glycol. Right. And you know, how black hole gets especially properly at cold temperatures to become fledging.

Yeah, that you're that you're, you keep leading right into my questions. Okay, okay. So let's, let's dive into that a little bit. Okay, so we've uncovered that we can put this stuff in the same concentrations, we get. For example, 5050 mix, we have negative 35. Which is better than than PG, at least eg probably close to that. Okay. Yeah. Alright, so let's talk about, let's talk about viscosity. Because that's the other issue. Like if you've got a load, we'll go back to our brewery. My favorite, these two these guys? What's that one?

They know more? Let me just jump real quick. Okay. You measure viscosity, dynamic viscosity, right?

Well, centipoise but yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay. What was that?

That is for Newtonian fluids. Okay, what is our fluid or fluid is non newtonian fluid. Now, let me get into more, you know, put that in English with you. Thank you paradigm shift questions with nanotechnology. And anybody can Google this, the real viscosity measurement methodology is apparent viscosity, what is apparent viscosity apparent viscosity is for non newtonian fluids, whereby the viscosity of the fluid changes under stress conditions equals shear stress. So our fluid is a shear thinning non newtonian fluid. What that means is that under stress, which is under more pressure, you have love to give employee stage sample, which I'm thinking from here from my office, they have 26 inch risers going up on their floor, right? That same fluid that you're pumping is and at the end of the day is going through it half an inch pipe you have one last word that's that's the definition of a stress Okay, on the flute our fluid gets thinner as you imply more stress and the reason for that is or particles that we use and I can although we have a trade secret manufacturing process we opted not to use patents industry which they'd completely demolished but I'm sure you know why.

out that Yeah, yeah. We

Diplodocus that we use are not metallic. Okay. You cannot use metallic particles in H vac system. Right? Erosion is going to eat up everything. No, yeah, you're right. So let's, okay. Okay, go ahead.

Finish

levels are a lot less than what the use you see on the mainstream heat transfer fluids, you know, number one names. And I can tell you this from our case studies, this is versus water not like all, we add not more than 3% pressure drop on any standard pump.

Okay, so I guess, wow, that was that was like a biochemistry lesson right there. Let me think. Yeah. All right. So, so I'm gonna break it down to because I'm a simple man. So what we're talking about here is my brewery application. They're running. Let's just let's say they're running slightly above freezing. So let's say run it 3538 degree glycol, okay, so it 35 to 38 glycol. I don't have my chart here, but because that propylene glycol is getting colder, it's getting thicker. That's just an EEG works. Not quite, it's not quite as bad as PG, but you're, you're adding viscosity, which means you're adding pressure drop to all of your heat exchangers, which means you have to ramp up your VFDs on your pumps to overcome that additional back pressure. And what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that even though you have the freeze protection, like again, we'll use our 5050 we have a freeze protection all the way down to minus 35. Your as you get colder, you're not seeing that increase in pressure drop. Or viscosity your it doesn't happen in nano. Right.

With with. Okay, I would probably miss that would probably, yeah, probably glycol is a trouble product. Okay. Yeah, sure. Can. Yeah. And, and industry. Let me just take another two steps back. Governments, the decision makers on on what's toxic was not what can be what cannot be used. They don't really understand this technology, right? properly. And yes, you can, you know, it's better than ethylene, no doubt. But once you add inhibitors, which you have to Yeah, to any properly solution, that becomes non toxic automatically, I mean, becomes toxic automatically. It was non toxic, toxic, non toxic, because of the inhibitors. Therefore, in New York, now you have to reclaim even propylene glycol solutions,

because of the nitrates.

In acquisition, the model updates the potassium phosphate, what have you. Alright, they have to reclaim that now. Well, let me just go over now go to example. With breweries, which we work with a couple of them, okay. We we kept our promise. It was again, engineers, their problem was they love to simulate things. Anything and technology is not simulate double, I don't know, is that a word? It's no good for them. You know why? They're new breed engineers. And then the simulation thing that there is no tomorrow. Unfortunately, the parameters of a nanofluid surface area increase. Ionic exchange capacities are not in the simulation programs. What you have is standard stuff, conductivity, certificate, viscosity and density. That's it. All right, but the way nanofluids work, that's why every time I talk to a nuclear physicist, they get it immediately. Well, let me ask you a question. Do you think is there a difference between a DI water and a regular tap water when it comes to heat transfer properties?

Not really. As far as I know, it's just water with the with the ions

pulled out of it? Well, they pull out minerals. That's why there is no nickel ionic exchange. Right? Right. Well, you just close your your your customer 6% efficiency. Yeah, you Yeah, water? DI water is no good. Nobody should be using DI water. Why are they using it? No kidding. Because heat transfer? Because because the the chemical treatment companies can sell you more inhibitors.

Yeah. Well, yeah, the inhibitors. Yeah, they need to be in there. The nitrite, especially nitrites, you know, are going to coat your pipes, right. And because most customers will fill these systems, the water component of their water glycol mix is just going to be water out of the tap. And depending on where the municipality gets their water from, you could be getting I'm gonna use a technical term here, a crap ton of minerals that come in with that, that water. And if you don't have a inhibitor in there, with that glycol, you're gonna destroy your plumbing, right? Because that that stuff falls out of suspension and then it starts whacking all the metals of all the systems and pretty soon you got to get rusty system, right? So you're saying that this nano stuff in its in itself provides the same plumbing protection if you will. They use city water and your product. This nanotechnology is also going to prevent sloughing of the ferrous metals in the system, correct?

Yes, I'll take you one step further. Again, none of the again name names with glycol industry has the level of corrosion protection that we have in the office corrosion test on the planet is a build cert test for old boiler systems in the UK, and NSF, America nsf.org acquired Bill cert. And we have a bill cert corrosion certification. And we're not using nitrate we cannot use nitrate we our main chemical is molybdate. And more data is superior than then not nitrate also expensive.

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What? What's the

what is a good a good starter? So let's say you've got a large industrial client. And yours I'm sure I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but you've got a large facility manager, a Microsoft building an Intel building a big shopping mall, something like that. That facilities manager, you know, he doesn't know you guys, you know, he may know, one of the other manufacturers I won't mention. And you know, what's a good channel for someone to test out this product? Or do a live demo test on this without the the risk because these facilities managers, you know, if you got like a million square feet, you're not just gonna willy nilly take out all the glycol

to ugly list. First of all, let's start with the risk. We have, we have a full product liability insurance that covers every piece on any building that hydraulics touches. What does that mean? We have something nobody has, we're not only backing up our efficiency claims, but we're also backing up our corrosion or any other system damage with a full level of a product insurance, which we carry for over 10 years now with zero claims. Narrow. And yeah. The channel is well we have a website, we have an info.at hydronics.com email, anybody can drop an email, we're getting over 50 emails a day now. Our people we have pretty much distributor, globally, distributors. Everywhere pretty much on modern world, we some of the distributors will contact you and and we'll take it from there. And what little or not just yesterday, after three months of collaboration, we just signed the very big contract with a marine engineering company called Avantis. And I can come out and say it right now. And to my surprise those ships, container ships cruise ships, they make up around five to 10% of the entire global carbon emission. Right, so now we're covering also the seas and then only land. So that's your that's your work.

Okay, so let's say, again, I'm really speaking to the facilities managers out there. So let's say you get a facility that, you know, they want to they want to go ahead and give this this product a shot. Um, they get approvals to do it. And they have what's the what's the the transition process? I mean, it's going to be very difficult on an existing system to get all the existing water and propylene glycol. You know, what's the process on that?

It's not it's not difficult at all. Actually, the reason why we're so popular right now, because HydroMax is a non intrusive technology. Okay, all you have to do is swap the fluid. Swapping the fluid for many buildings in New York City is a yearly twice yearly event. They bring their systems and they reflow. Right? So

so if there's a if there's a valve that currently gets left closed, and you've got a couple of heat exchangers, that for some reason they didn't drain down still contained the regular PG or eg water mix.

That's a problem. No, no, because Martin, we've been doing this for over 10 years. Now we know what, and then the process is going to be as follows. We reach out to them sign a simple NDA, they will forward us their energy bills. And and we're going to calculate the volume of the system. And we're going to give you a proposal based on the volume with the guarantee that away just like it just like we do with Empire State Buildings, we just keep it the roadway. If anybody familiar with man, that's the one of the iconic buildings, just the entire solar system and hydraulics. Right. Okay.

Yeah, you know, this is interesting. So full disclosure, guys, to my audience out there. Before we recorded this session. I asked Birkin about issues with the refrigeration cycle. And in you know, I'll let you chime in here Birkin. But the what, what I see here is that there is no issue according to the documentation, I went through some of the case studies that hydro MCs has on their site. And they do have this stuff running in a lot of process. chillers out there. And so I'm assuming that there's no issues with the expansion devices, dealing with the extra capacity that's coming out of the heat transfer fluid. So that's good to know. I mean, that I pretty much nailed what we talked about before we hit or

be more than thank you so much. So that's exactly correct. One of the I can give give you one of our claim to fame series, case studies would Slovakia, Slovakia Continental Tire factory, they had an issue with their chillers not being able to maintain the set temperature that they require. They heard about us, we get into fluid this was four years ago. They're adding another hydraulics loop to their factory next month. So not only that, we have repetitive customers. For example, we have this generic drug manufacturing company called micro labs out of India. They own the first factory this was six years ago, they measured the verified it, they did themselves. They measured for one full year. Now they installed every other factory without even measuring it. They have five factories. So I guess repetitive customers speaks for themselves. Right? We have not yet not accomplished what we we are promising. I guess we would not be getting put to the customers.

Yeah. So is there a minimum? What's the availability on this stuff? I mean, if you had any supply chain issues or anything like that,

Oh man, that's Oh,

that tells it all right there.

Oh, boy. We probably I call the lead time is currently four months. With ethylene we're a lot luckier we did some inventory already stocked up but properly and we just run out because we had a big customer now out of Minnesota. And it looks like Minnesota is converting all the schools to probably hydroponics pretty soon. So we're just getting a lot of demand for properly protect. But properly in is isn't it is really hard to get right now. Yeah. Easier in Europe because Russia has it properly manufacturing facilities. But now there's going to be pulled back to the way it goes.

Yeah, that rushes out of the loop for a while no pun intended. Um so what's the I guess what I want to find out now is we have a lot of process chiller companies out there and when I say process chillers I'm talking chillers that are under 150 200 tons you know they're smaller for you know a specific mission processes out there in do you guys assuming you know once your supply chain challenges get resolved. Do you guys have a minimum or like you ship a concentrate which is pure right? And then customer Okay, that's that's a big deal. So so they can buy concentrate and then they they mix it within the equipment? What's the minimum quantity like if I've got a little chiller manufacturing company which I used to have? And I want to start promoting this product to my customers or buying chillers for me? Can you buy this stuff and five gallon 10 gallon 55 gallon containers?

Yes thank you more than yes, we go down to five gallons. Refer to ship in totes it their total price about one metric ton which is about 250 to three a gallon, which whichever the product is ethylene are probably based. We do also 55 gallon drums. But we can we can pretty much I mean, our factory is designed to to address any quantities.

Okay? Now the ROI though you're going to pay more per gallon of it. So you mentioned a three year ROI, what's the quantity you have to buy to get that kind of ROI? It's more if you buy in smaller containers, I'm sure

that we'll be we don't go lower. If we're doing the engineering side of it. This should be good to put some time into it with our engineers, we will but we don't do that for for small projects, anything less than, you know, 1000 gallons is not good.

Okay, well, that the that makes sense. Very good. Well, this has been really educational Burke and I, I think this definitely has merit, I think it should be considered. You know, I I guess I'm a little, I'll remain hopeful that you find some some more early adopters. And again, once you get critical mass, you know, nobody wants to be first on something like this right? Or very few people want to be first because they don't want to take the risk. But if

you get a good one, we're kind of past that stage. Right now. We're not looking for early adopters. We're looking for building owners, engineering companies, especially design engineers that want to improve the their their designs, we can lower the footprint of equipment with fluid. And now let me for retrofits for retrofit and users that we have to swap the fluid, I have great news for them to four data centers, any any glycol fluid, we can do now what we call an injection model. Five, we don't have to swap the fluid. But we rather inject around 5% volume of the system, what we call a techno package. We we have over 10 case studies globally, where we implemented this technology, and it's working marvelously.

So what do you mean by inject? So you, you basically, are you purging the regular traditional glycol and then injecting this stuff? Or what do you mean by that?

You have a datacenter. Right. Right, which i i cannot swap the fluid because of the downtime is not it's not ideal? It's not possible, right? That correct. So what we do is we come in, we analyze the system, we're hoping that you're not your system is clean

chemically. That last, that's wishful thinking that go ahead.

Data centers, we are more hopeful that they pay money, right, are for water treatment. So what we do is we take a sample of your fluid, we analyze it, we come up with the ideal concentration to inject meaning to slowly gradually those in our techno package to your existing system with no downtime, and we're still guaranteeing you 20% efficiency, but

wouldn't you be so you're gonna have to purge some of that fluid to put some of the new fluid in, right?

There's no fluid now. It's only less than 5% of the entire volume. I'm replacing. Okay.

Okay, I see what you're doing. So they're gonna have to drain down 5%

We're not picking up everything. There's no draining down either. It's just a complicated little complicated process. Depends what they have. Okay. We've did to the lowest budget was around 3%. Yeah, what? We're taking some fluid out and we're gradually stopped putting into now nano package system.

Interesting. Interested in

one day, one day process for systems about I would say, less than 5000 gallons.

Okay. There's a lot of systems out there like that for sure.

Yeah. One day both. There's no downtime.

So Birkin. So where are how do people find out about more? I've got your, your website up here. Hydro mx.com. So if somebody wants to get more information about your products and your solutions, what do they do? Just go on to the distributor list. The what's the best way?

Yep. Send us an email. Okay. Don't call us get up with an email, please.

Okay. Wow, that's really good. Well, gosh, I can't believe it's been almost it's been 45 minutes. Yeah, well, thank thank you so much. Is there any last words you'd like to send out to our audience out there Birkin.

They will be hearing about us in a grander scale. And pretty much 12 months 61 months from now, and we're proud to be representing a nanotechnology.

So that is it. I hope you enjoy This episode, I very much look forward to continuing to connect with you. Please don't hesitate to send me messages on LinkedIn I'm on there all the time. Or you can reach out to me on my email. I'm at M King at process Tiller Academy calm and until next week. When I give you the next installment, I wish you a great week, and I will connect up with you again soon. Take care.

Bye bye

Transcribed by https://otter.ai