Blake Howe, a veteran skilled trade’s recruiter shares some valuable information about working in the skilled trades industry.

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Transcript

So greetings guys, Martin King again here with skilled trade rescue.com. Today I have a guest, and his name is Blake Howe, and he is a recruiter, I believe we're gonna hear a lot from him in a few minutes. And this series that I'm doing is to talk about skilled trades, and hear from real people that are actually working in skilled trades in various activities. And Blake, I think has an interesting story I wanted to share with everybody. And hopefully what my goal is from the series is that you guys walk away with actionable intelligence habits, things that you know, you can put to light or put to use in your own life and in skilled trades. And also, I'm trying to see if we can get the word out to folks, maybe that have graduated from school, whether that be you're getting out into the workforce for the first time, or you're a college graduate, that is thinking something's missing, and you're starting to hear a little bit of buzz about skilled trades and what's going on, and you want to hear more about it. So we need more people in skilled trades. And Blake is going to tell the story about that. So welcome, Blake, how you doing today?

I'm doing fantastic, Martin, I appreciate you having me on the show and taking the time to have a interview with me.

Yeah, awesome. Awesome. So we, I think we connected initially went on LinkedIn, I think I put out some, hey, I need people in skilled trades. I think you were one of the first to respond back. And and I finally got you on the show. Yeah,

you know, the power of power of the internet. So yeah, here we are. So it's great. I'm really happy that we're able to do that and make the connection and have to have the time to meet up.

Yeah. So you are a skilled trades recruiter. And I think a lot of people know what recruiters are. But why don't you give us sort of a, a bio I have up on your on the screen right now, which will be part of the production, your LinkedIn history. Tell us tell us a little bit about what you got going on? What's what's happening?

Yeah, I mean, you know, as far as what I do, personally, I have a background in construction and skilled trades. As a young person growing up, my dad was an electrical contractor in California for 40 years, as well as a licensed general contractor. So I grew up working in the trades myself. So you know, it's, it's great to kind of give back and doing what I'm doing now in recruiting. And basically what I do is I'm a regional recruiting manager for nit building solutions. So we recruit specifically for the HVAC, mechanical contracting, as well as electrical and plumbing fields. So we do work with some general construction companies as well. And essentially, what we are is we are a resource for companies that are looking to build their businesses with the best talent available. And what we do is we you know, meet candidates that are anywhere from installers to HVAC technicians, to field plumbers, all the way up to, you know, chief financial officers and, you know, Regional Vice Presidents within our industry. So, if they have a good background, we interview them on our end, and I qualify them based on their expertise, and kind of what their motivation is career wise what their career goals are, and what they want to do moving forward. And then ideally, we get a match on our end, and we helped make that introduction.

So are you guys national or your regional?

Yeah, so we're a national company. I handle the Colorado to California market, including Texas. And then we have other recruiters that handle the southeast and the Northeast, and what have you. So my markets, the, you know, one of the biggest in the country being California included in Texas as well, those are some of the biggest job markets in the country, as well as Arizona, which is just amazing. Nowadays, they got, you know, $50 billion worth of data centers, and, you know, critical environments and, you know, semiconductor factories that are being built out there. So it's a pretty hot job market as well.

Yeah. So I would imagine so you have to develop to relationships, right? So you guys are constantly looking for employers that are maybe looking to expand their horizon. You know, most employers, you know, they've got signs running around their trucks, right. And they've got their they've got a local market that they're trying to attract. And it's sort of a kind of a feeding frenzy out there. It has been for decades where contractors are trying to steal talent from their competitors. That's one way to do it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, and then I think so the niche I see you guys filling would be where you've got a contractor that knows the value of getting a quality candidate, and they're looking for maybe candidates that are are moving into the area, right new talent coming in? Is that kind of? Is that kind of the the best scenario for you guys?

Yeah, I mean, kind of getting on to your first point in that developing the relationships, you know, anybody who's you know, good at what they do, regardless of you know, their career path is good at developing relationships and what what we pride ourselves in is developing relationships with, you know, people that run companies, it could be your, you know, three and a half million dollar plumber down the street that is doing commercial work, we know, or what have you, that's a smaller shop, or it can be your $2 billion, you know, largest design build mechanical contractor in the western United States. And what we try and do to differentiate ourselves is develop relationships with people that actually run those companies. So that we can be a really strategic resource. And then on the other side, you know, with the candidate side, what we try and do is build those relationships as well with, you know, the guy driving around in, you know, an HVAC truck, van doing service work, or what have you running projects, doing a, you know, mechanical or plumbing project, you know, could be a hospital could be a $30 million hospital, you know, we're we're trying to develop relationships on both sides. So we can be a resource for both people and make the best match moving forward for someone's career, as well as the company looking to build their company in, you know, whatever way they're trying to, whether it be on service construction, what have you, you know, that's what we try and build those relationships. And as far as the talent, you know, it could be local talent. You know, it could be, especially the last year or so year and a half everybody's moving, you know, the mass exodus, that you kind of hear out of California, or what have you that people are moving to other areas like Arizona and Texas, Florida, what have you, you know, that's part of it, but for the most part, we generally work with people that already and within the market, okay.

Okay. Now, are you servicing both? On the contractor side? Are you servicing? Both union and non union shops?

Yeah, so we work with both Union and non union shops, the thing for the most part, you know, on the union side of things, we are working on roles that are not necessarily within the union where they can go to the hall. Yeah, you know, and get a guy or gal. However, we do place people that are field personnel within the union, it just depends on the wall, you know, it's your general, you know, HVAC service technician, you know, kind of the general run of the mill, so to speak, you know, they're gonna go to the hall for that. However, if it's your, you know, if it's your high level, you know, chiller mechanic that is, you know, making 5060 $70 an hour, you know, and those guys are tough to find, you know, we're we're gonna we're gonna get on that.

Hey, guys, quick announcement, if you have not stopped into our website, at skill trade rescue.com, please do that. On the homepage. Here, you will see that we have the Join the movement email list. If you haven't signed up, please consider doing that we have some amazing guests lined up for the podcast, I'm going to be getting the stories out of successful technicians and business owners in skilled trades. These are not just HVAC people there's going to people be from across the skilled trade spectrum. And my hope is that I'm going to be able to draw out of these people the things that have worked in their careers amazingly well. And the things that if they had a chance to talk to their younger self, what they would tell them not to do. So I want to share all that stuff with you. And if you sign up, you're going to be the first to know when we drop those new podcast episodes. Also, coming soon we have the BDS T workshop. It's a five day automated email workshop. However, you're going to give content to us through that workshop, you're gonna get one on one feedback from our instructors, instructors, and we're looking to better your career. I've been teaching the BST process for many, many years, about two decades one on one, and I'm going to be trying to do that to the masses through this workshop. It's totally free. All you got to do sign up. As soon as you do that, you'll get alerts on your email, as soon as these new podcasts come in, as well as the BST workshop. So if you check it out, I will put a link to the website on the show notes for this episode today. So check it out. So in other words, let me unpack what you said. So let's say hypothetically, you've got a specialized technician, chiller tack control tack, that may be working for a non union shop in California, and they decide that they're going to move to Texas or Florida or some other state and you have a relate somehow you find out about this technician you have a relationship with a union shop, because of the high demand for that technician that union shop may induct, if you will, assuming that they have the credentials, right? That they may redock that individual Drill into the Union and move them up quite quickly within the union scale. Right.

Yeah. So I mean, it's, that's exactly right. So especially on the control side of things, you know, you have the high level controls engineer, they might be, you know, tritium, Niagara and force certified or what have, you know, dystek GSX. They might have a real specialty to them. And the high level programming yet, you know, within union we generally do get on those roles. Elverta it's not relegated to relocation. It does it could be it's most of our placements are not relocations are within the market because logistically, the relocations are pretty tough, right? People sometimes have to sell a house. Yeah, to move family, they got kids that gotta come out of school. Right. It's tough on our end. So we try and, you know, work with more of the local town, but getting to your point, as far as within the union, that's exactly the type of roles that we work on within the unit is your controls engineers, you know, your chiller mechanics or Master Plumbers, who are just absolute studs in the field that are hard to get, you know, and that's when they come to us. Yeah, to go get that person. Yeah. And like I said, 8090 90% of the time is within the local market. Yeah.

Okay. So labor in general, skilled trade labor in general, what kind of trends are you seeing out there? Blake? Like? Like, you know, let's say, we'll put the aperture at about the last five years? What, what kind of trends are you seeing out there on your end of the business? Yeah, so

the biggest thing, I mean, within the last five years is the workforce and the demographic of that workforce. You know, I think I just saw a recent article, I may have posted it on LinkedIn about, you know, the silver tsunami or something to where, you know, the older generation. And I think the trend, at least from what I'm seeing lately, over the last couple years, is there's been a lot more action promotion and interest around, getting the younger generation involved. You know, and we work, you know, to be clear, we work with people that are at all age categories within the industry, I will work with someone who is at retirement age, you know, if they have a good background, and they have good motivation, it just really depends on the person, you know, as nothing I have no problem with with any sort of demographic, but as far as the industry trends, you know, five years ago, the median age was pretty high, you know, just from your basic plumber in the field might have might be 55 years old, that the six, you know, a lot of miles on the chassis at that point, you know, you know, if you're a mechanic, you're climbing ladders, and care motors all day, you know, compressors, it's, it's challenging, and the body breaks down. So, you know, the trend is what I like to see lately, what's been great is a lot of the interest generation, you know, not only within the trade within guys, like you and I, you know, industry experts, but even in the media, they're covering a lot more of the trade school as being a real good option for people that instead of going to college,

finally, they're finally like, right,

exactly. And again, I mean, I went to I went to college, and I can say, you know, for the most part, my degree was pretty much was worthless, you know, on my end, my bachelor's degree. However, you know, my dad, you know, he went to, he went to high school, it was a trade school, you know, and they did sheet metal, they did all, you know, electrical, all that all this stuff. So, you know, back in the day, that was kind of the, you know, kind of the norm it was, it was a part of things, you know, back to back then. So, finally, you know, people are really, you know, they're really seeing the value of, you know, go into trade school and go and getting that specialized education instead of, you know, going to college, not to mention, you could be working while you're going to school, earning a living and you get out of that school, whatever the apprenticeship is, or, you know, H fac, or electrical plumbing. You get out with not only a skill, but not 50 $60,000 in debt, you know, so finally they are seeing that value.

Yeah. Amen. Yeah, I, it's finally, we're seeing a lot of activity about, you know, conversations going on about, you know, skilled trades. And I've been hammered on this for like the last I don't know, since I started this series, we start started about three months ago on this interviewing people. Yeah. And what's really interesting is, and, guys, if you heard my podcast, you've heard me bang on this a little bit. So just trying to shake your head and say, Yeah, Martin, I know anyway, I'm going to say this again. So all the media tends to meet and even the colleges, even the even in the high schools, you know, pretty much the whole anybody talking about skilled trades, they use pretty much one reference and one reference only to how much money the service technician skilled trade person at large can make as a career right. And that's all Based on the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that's where they get their data from. And I've done a lot of research on exactly what that data is, where it come from and how it's collected. And what I found is that the data that's been reported and the data that's being quoted to parents of kids getting ready to graduate high school and such, it's about half what, what they're really getting paid. Yeah. And finally, you know, there's I did an interview with a guy named Misha Fisher, he's a economist for Angie, or use the Angie's List. Now it's Angie, and he actually, super, super smart guy. And he dug into this a little bit. He didn't actually come out and say, you know, like, I've been saying that the Bureau of Labor Statistics is a bunch of BS. Yes, that, but you shared some information about what's real. And, you know, what, what? Some real positive things based on real data about skilled trades, you know, right.

Yeah, you know, I completely agree with you. And when I in an LLC on, you know, LinkedIn, or what have you, I'll see an article or post that just, you know, has that exact breakdown, you know, if you're an electrician, you're gonna make this much or that I complete every time I see those. I say, Man, that's way low.

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Yeah. Right. And I mean, even you know, and you're not even including, you know, you're not including any overtime or anything like that. I mean, you know, when I see the hourly wages, I'm like, Man, I'm working with guys. And we're national, and we talked within the office, and we're all saying that these numbers are much lower than regardless of the area. And then you got to include the overtime aspect. I mean, I'm working with companies now, believe it or not that on the HVAC side of things, they're paying tax from the moment they leave their house to the moment they get home. You know, think about that for a minute. And you know, not only that they're paying them during their lunch hour. Yeah. So you know, you get the van, you get the gas card, you get the tools, you get the benefits, and also you get paid from the time you leave your house at the time you get home at night, you know, could be an 11 hour day, you know, normally, you know, even without an overtime and you're busy on a job or what have you. So, I mean, talk about the how much that adds up. Yeah, you know, it's pretty amazing that the total package of some of these people, you know,

so without naming names, so let's say, what's your number one recruitment state, California? I would say probably,

yeah, California, by far. I mean, I am pretty, you know, sophisticated in my in my data that I keep on my own, as far as you know, what cities and what areas are the hottest California, definitely the hottest area, you know, LA, San Jose, San Jose, San Francisco has cooled down a bit over the last couple years since the pandemic, you know, a lot of the mechanical contractors that I worked with had, you know, they, they took care of Google, they took care of LinkedIn, they took care of Facebook, well, when all those people went away, you know, you don't need the maintenance, you know, they're not on those products. So yeah, California, LA, San Jose, Texas. And Arizona is definitely been one of the hottest areas the last year and a half or so.

So what's uh, let's, let's just take a drill down a bit. So you got an HVAC, journeyman, you know, totally self sustaining, non union? Tak what's the what's the range? You know, just a general range on what on what the package would be for a guy like that maybe like in an annual income roughly.

Yeah, roughly. I mean, if you're talking within the state of California, your your solid journeyman, you know, 10 year 15 year guy or gal, you know, is going to be depending on again, a lot of factors 35 to 50 bucks an hour. Right. You know, I'm working with a couple of individuals in Los Angeles, you know, 48 bucks an hour. Yeah. And that's Not including overtime, it's not including the van or the truck or anything like that. So, you know, the total package at the end of the year would depend on how much overtime they work. But as far as the base rate, you know, for the for in the Southern California or northern counties, it's going to be the same, you know, that 35 to 50. Other markets, it would be more like 25 to 45. In Texas, Arizona that tell you in Colorado, I mean, 45 bucks an hour for your solid H fat guy,

or yeah, that's, that's a lot better than the 15 to 20 that they're reporting.

Yeah, yeah. And that's why I said when I see that 15 I'm like, Man, I'm not working with it. I have placed the guy I have placed individuals at 15 to 20 bucks an hour, but they were your three year installer.

Yeah. Yeah.

So did you get any video break up on your end? No. Yeah, mine stopped. My video is not working. Well, I can see just fine. Am I moving? Oh, there we go.

Yeah. So internet.

Yeah, here it goes. Again. It's glitching. A little bit on my end. So

yeah, I should be okay. I'm not normally this, this application will give me an error message or something when something's going totally sideways. So I haven't seen anything like that yet. So we

should be well, if you as long as you see me on my end. Yeah, but your mind it's not moving or nothing. So

you're crystal clear here. So okay. So wow, this is really interesting. Um, so what are some of the biggest challenges? Blake that the skilled trade industry is faced with? I think you alluded to some of that, finding the labor, that kind of thing. You know, besides the basic stuff, what, what are some of the headwinds, if you will, that skilled trades are experiencing and are bound to continue to experience over the next decade or so?

Yeah, I mean, I think I hit on it a little bit. As far as the demographics, I mean, I try and push it myself with my own, you know, social influence and networking, professionally, is getting more people involved in skilled trades and understanding the benefits. And, you know, not only the benefits monetarily being able to provide for yourself or your family pretty much anywhere you go in the country, but you know, the pride of work, you know, being you know, having a job finishing it, and being a skilled tradesman, and doing well at it, you know, is, is a lot, there's a lot more to the job than just the money part. However, definitely, I think just getting more people involved, there has to be a huge push to get them trained, and in the school and within the workforce as quick as possible, because I think, you know, we're going to be in for as the older generation starts retiring, we're gonna, we're gonna have a, we already have a bad, pretty bad shortage, it's gonna get even worse, you know?

So what are some of the, you know, obviously, you mentioned relationships, and you've got, you know, relationships with employers, that's basically your source of employment. And you're trying to, you're trying to, you know, you're a matchmaker, basically, you know, between here and the, and the technicians that are out there. So, besides the basics, you know, showing up to work on time, you know, keeping your driver's license clean? Yeah, the basic stuff? What are some of the, the traits, the habits, the, what are some of the core things that these employers are looking for in their, you know, in their superstars? You know, the ones that are technicians that are just the superstars of the company? What are some of the things they're looking for? They shared that with you?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. And, you know, we discussed this all the time, you know, not only internally but with with the clientele. And I can tell you, right off the bat, initially, the initial impression, let's say, when I'm making an introduction, the immediate thing they look for, is your, your work history. Okay, have this individual have, they had five jobs in six years, right now? You know, initially, and I give them some, you know, especially during the 2020, and all that, you had to move around, if the company lost a bunch of jobs, you had to get, you know, you got to provide for your family, we understand that. However, there are people that that continued employment through that phase, and, you know, it was no problem. However, initially, the traits of the top people in the industry is a solid work history,

as in Okay, so what's the minimum? Two years, three years? Five years? What's sort of the number? You know,

you look at? Yeah, I mean, it really depends on what the series of jobs looks like, if they've been in their position now for two years. And they had a position prior to that, and they were in it for four. And then before that, you know, three or four, what have you that that's more of what you want to see as opposed to someone who is, you know, you sometimes I mean, you even see people that have three jobs in one year, three companies, you know, and no matter who you are, whether I mean when we work with not only the field individuals, but you know, project managers, senior PMS estimators, you know, and And no matter who you are, no matter how good you are, if they see that work history, that initial snapshot, the initial 10, second, you know that people have the attention span, people have days, as far as looking at resumes, they see that jumping around, they see the different entries in on the resume. And that's, that's a red flag to a lot of people. And I'm not saying every person that has jumped around is a red flag, but that's just initially to the employer. You know, one of the things that we is, is something that jumps out of what I'm saying, and, you know, what we try and do a good recruiter, what we'll try and do is talk to the individual and really advise them, you know, hey, is this really the best thing for you to do is be looking for another job right now, you just got to this position, you know, last year, what's going on? Why are you looking? You know, so as far as you know, not only the best practices on the employment side of the company side, the candidate side, you know, you see it a lot with the HVAC, and the plumbers, electricians is on the on the field level guys jumping around a lot. And they may be moving from Company A to Company B for $1 more an hour, or what have you. And really, you really want to try and plan not planned, but put in place your career goals, because you want to keep in mind that your ability to get hired is going to depend on your work history. And just just for you to actually just get a conversation with a company is going to depend on their initial snapshot of your resume. So if you've had five jobs in four years, it's going to be a tough time to get in front of them. Now, as far as the recruiter, a good recruiter will act as that cover letter to accompany if I have relationship with a with a company, and I'm talking to the president, I say, you know, hey, Joe, working with a guy or gal, great skill set, they jumped around, however, I recommend you really having a chat with them. You know, that's the advantage of working with someone like myself or anybody with nit is we're able to get you in front of someone that they may have passed on you in the first place because your work history. However, it does take a big push, because no matter who how good someone is, the company's initial response to someone jumping around is there's got to be something there, there's got to be a problem.

Yeah, and you know, what are the things that have sort of, I guess, incentivize those jumps these days? Is I don't know if a lot of your contractor customers are doing this. But I've seen a lot of it where these companies they're so desperate for, you know, skilled tax didn't matter. Electrician, plumbers, HVAC, doesn't matter what it is. They did this back probably about a decade ago, when because I'm from the Bay Area originally. And the signing bonus game, that, you know, you get somebody in their 20s they got a bunch of kids. Kids need braces, you know, whatever. Oh, yeah. That has a tendency, you know, you get a contractor. You know, let's say you've been on the job six months, and then you need some cash, because a lot of these guys a lot of technicians no matter what, what you pay them, they're always broke.

Always broken. Yeah, always looking for the next phase,

for sure. Yeah, so what ends up happening, they'll jump ship, with their six month outfit, not necessarily because they're unhappy, or they're not getting fulfilled by working there. But they've got a shop down the street willing to, you know, PACE six, or seven or 10, I've seen as high as $10,000 signing bonus. Now, they don't just write you a check on your first day at work, obviously. But that, so So Blake, that's a great message, you know, the technicians out there that are working, you want to make sure that you know, even though you may see a grass is greener on the other side of the fence, you want to do a self analysis on your current position current company, and you want to you want to put into your calculation that the fact that I'm jumping could potentially down the road have an impact on opportunities, right.

Yeah, and, you know, and there's reasons behind everything and some, you know, it goes back, it's kind of a balancing act, because a lot of let's say, especially on the technician side, you know, some of the companies, you know, they're not doing regular review processes. They're not giving coaching and developing to the field level guys or gals, so that the technicians are forced to kind of go so that they get a pay raise, you know, what I mean? They haven't maybe haven't got a raise in a year, you know, and generally, you know, on the company side, you know, you have to ask yourself, are they giving reviews? Are they doing 3090 Day reviews, six month reviews and having an opportunity to give this person a pay raise? And unfortunately, a lot of times are not so the techniques like look, I need to make more Money, I gotta go to another company. And you know, they're obviously not going to move for the same money. So they get a couple bucks more an hour. And you know, sometimes you can't blame them if they're in that situation.

Well, yeah, but there's a flip side to that, you know, you may have the, you may, I had technicians, because I ran a good sized commercial shop. And, you know, we got busy sometimes in the space as a business owner doing reviews is not your favorite thing to do? No, no, it's a lot of work. Especially with smaller contractor, you got to do it all yourself, there is software that helps you helps you do evaluations, but sometimes, you know, one of your good tacks just kind of gets forgotten. And what I used to do is when I interviewed and I ultimately hired a technician, I said, Look, we do our reviews once a year, but we get busy. So it's your job, if you think that that you have elevated your skill level, and your work habits to a point where you know, you making more money is justified, you have to talk to me, it's not that if I don't if I don't give you a raise, it's not because I don't want to, I just may just not have time to get to it. It's it's that way.

Yeah, you know, you kind of hit the nail on I mean, absolutely. I love to hear that type of leadership style. Because, you know, and will even ask people, you know, Hey, have you have you talked to your right, you know, have you talked to your boss about getting a raise? You've been here at the shop for nine months now. Have you spoken up? And granted? Is that warranted? You know, or have you been doing the work the right way? Have you been putting in the effort, you're doing quality work in the field, you know, then you know, I would suggest maybe, maybe going to your boss and kind of talking about it, and it takes, you know, that leadership style on your end, as well is the open mindedness to have that discussion. And, and let's say the person there on the edge there, they may not be warranted a raise at that point. But they're still a good worker, and and you're not going to look differently upon them after that point. You know, so that it really depends on the kind of the leadership style of yourself and as well as the employee of the if that's warranted or not. And yeah, the right attitude moving forward.

Well, and there's ways to have that conversation with your boss, you know, getting ready to put together what I call it's, it's a five day workshop called the BST workshop. And one of the things I'm covering in that workshop is, how to have a conversation with your boss about money, right? It's uncomfortable, nobody likes it. But there is a way to have a conversation with your boss, you know, if you say, Hey, boss, I need to make more money. They're gonna say, Well, why? And they say, well, because I'm a superstar. Okay? So you know, you start, that's the wrong way to do it. But if the boss says, you're not quite ready, yet, the way to follow up on that is cool. Well give me a list of things that I need to attain or accomplish in order to make my value to a point where you're gonna feel really good about paying me more, you know, and then just shut up.

Yeah, yeah. And I mean, you know, and again, it goes back to, you know, the individual and, you know, what's their background prior to that, in terms of having professional training to have that conversation? You know, and I don't know if that's part of the curriculum, when when people are in the apprenticeship. I mean, if they're in a union shop, they're getting, it's a little different story. But if it's a non union thing, you know, they may or may not have had the education to have those types of discussions. So it just may not have and then again, when if they haven't had the education to do it, you know, are you bringing it up in the right way? Are you setting up for him? Hey, boss, is there an idea of available time that you and I could sit down and have discussion? Or are you guys loading the truck up with the material? And you're saying, Hey, can I get a race? You know, it's two different types of conversations for sure.

Yeah, you know, that's a good point to bring up. You touched on that really quickly. Like, I want to point that out what Blake just touched on is a little different in a union shop. So those of you guys out there that you know, your Blake and I talked about union non union. There's really two different channels you can go when you go into skilled trades, and they both have advantages. But what Blake was alluding to, I believe, and correct me if I'm wrong here, Blake, but within a union, that conversation, you still can have those conversations with an employer, but there's a heck of a lot more structure with respect to your your pay, because it's based on time, it's based on usually a structured apprenticeship program. So you kind of know where you're going to be within your 123 and four nonunion not so much because it's it's much much different. Is that about accurate?

Yeah. 100% Yeah, exactly what I was saying and any I mean, I know a little bit about, you know, not only working with unions, now is my dad was in the Union and the IBEW for 30 years so you know, I'm familiar with it. I actually person We worked with in a union contractor out of college as a project engineer and an assistant estimator. So we were designed union electrical shop. So I was always dealing with the wages and this and that when it came to estimating or what have you. So yeah, it's, that's exactly what I was what I was alluding to in terms of that structure and pay.

Awesome. Well, we've been on here for about 39 minutes. Okay, what I want to do is, let's do a quick wrap up. What, what parting words, would you give Blake two, for two audiences? What parting words would you give for the parents of a maybe a high school senior, that they're just now or junior, they're just now starting to have conversations about, you know, what their son or daughter is going to do for the rest of their lives? Right, earning guidance would you give to that demographic? And then what parting guidance would you give to a current technician working in the in the field?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. I mean, as far as the parents are concerned, talking to their, you know, their high school, senior or junior, or what have you, you know, getting into the trades. Going out, going out of high school and getting into a trade school, to become an electrician, or an HVAC tech, or what have you, a plumber, is an amazing opportunity to, you know, build your skill set to have a career, you know, really anywhere you go in the country, they need people like you. And it doesn't mean that your son or daughter isn't going to go to college, if that's, you know, what you see, because most of the people, at least half that I work with, all have degrees, you know, they all have college degrees, even the field field techs, they, they got mechanical engineering degrees, they got electrical engineering degrees, you know, they got business degrees. So it doesn't mean they're, they're not going to get a degree and, you know, it's just, the, the point is that there's an option other than college initially, they get in, get an apprenticeship, and they're working, they can work on, you know, getting college, especially nowadays with technology, they can go to school online, if they want to, for crying out loud, you know, so I think just the message to the parents is be open to the conversation that, you know, going to trade school instead of college is okay. And it doesn't mean that they're not going to go later on. Because like I said, I work with plenty of individuals, at least half that have degrees. And then to did on the HVAC, you know, on the field got, you know, the message to them, I think overall is, and I know, it's hard because you said it earlier, you know, 20 something year old, they need to make more money, what have you, but try and sit down and have a goal planning session with your career, you know, I do meet technicians that are been in the field for 30 years, and they love it. And that's where they're going to end. You know, and that's, that's fine. But really have a plan, you know, at least a general outline of what you're thinking you want to do, because it's going to help you not only in the short term, but in the long term. Because, you know, nowadays, especially the technicians, or what have you are getting multiple calls all day long from recruiters and people like myself, people from companies have internal recruiters as well, I'm sure they're getting bombarded. And it's very easy to kind of change jobs every year to write if you have this long, if you have this long term goal in mind is going to allow you to be a little bit more selective to think, you know, hey, you know, what, is this the best career move for myself to go from company to company B, you know, look at the whole picture involved, you mentioned, you know, you know, moving from Company A to B, well, that company B has a lot of work now, but what's their backlog? Like? You know, how much work are there? How many hours a week? Are there technicians, you're making? $2 more an hour, but you're only working 30 hours a week? Right? You know, so really have that that the goal session and outline in mind because I think it's going to help you not only in the short term, but in the long term in in really guiding your career moves, you know, in the industry,

well said. So, that is it. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I very much look forward to continuing to connect with you. Please don't hesitate to send me messages on LinkedIn. I'm on there all the time. Or you can reach out to me on my email. I'm at M King at process Tiller academy.com And until next week, when I give you the next installment I wish you a great week, and I will connect up with you again soon. Take care. Bye bye.