SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Jonathan Shuttlesworth Podcast. To stay connected, go to revivaltoday.com. And now here is Evangelist Jonathan.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome to Charleston, West Virginia. Beautiful setup we have here for today and tomorrow. I'm Jonathan Shuttlesworth. And today I want to cover something. I read in uh a uh Pastor Enoch Gattaboy from the Redeemed Christian Church of God, who's 80. He wrote this when he was 84. He may be older now. And in the ministry 53 years, wrote Three Secrets to Longevity and Life in Ministry. And I read it and it really touched my heart. And uh Mother's Day, May 10th, was the 24th year that I've been in full-time ministry. I graduated Bible college May 10th, 2002 at Zion Bible Institute in Barrington, Rhode Island. And uh went went to New Brunswick to preach at a youth camp in Caton's Island, New Brunswick. And then there was a Pentecostal church there that found out I was there, a decent sized church, if I remember correctly, and asked if I could do their Sunday morning. I can't remember if I did Sunday morning, Sunday night, or just Sunday morning. And off from there. So I'm not saying that I've had longevity in ministry. Obviously at 45, nobody's like uh you're like an old man on the scene, but I had a classmate contact me um from that I went to Bible school with that's in the ministry, and we counted um six six people that from our original class of 140 something that are in any kind of ministry. And you could probably count quite a few, 50 plus that aren't serving the Lord. So uh I want to read a couple scriptures to start. Three secrets to longevity in life in ministry. And I wrote, I want you to write it down when to run, when to hide, and when to fight. Some people only know, uh, it's like they only choose one of those three things. I used to only choose one of those three things. I think out of the three, I think everybody knows which one I'm wired to choose, where you just fight, and if you're out of stuff to fight, go join in somebody else's fight and um confront everything. And then what happens is you can find scriptures about fighting. And so, no, you know, and then you can find, and then the people that are passive that close their church down during COVID and uh, you know, don't sue the governor, and it's a shame for churches to be making a stand like they're doing. You should just obey. They've got all their scriptures on hiding and uh fleeing. But there's scriptures on all of them, and Pastor Ataboya was saying that the secret to longevity in ministry is knowing how to discern when it's time to run, when it's time to hide, and when it's time to fight. Because if you only know one, you know, there's churches that they fought during COVID correctly, but then now that COVID's over, they just always need a fight. They need to be against something all the time. So I want to deal with this. Acts, three secrets to longevity in life and ministry, when to run, when to hide, and when to fight. Acts 20, 22 through 24. And now I am bound by the Spirit to go to Jerusalem. I don't know what awaits me, except that the Holy Spirit tells me in city after city that jail and suffering lie ahead. But my life is worth nothing to me unless I use it for finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus. The work of telling others the gospel about the wonderful grace of God. I want you to write that phrase down. Finishing the work assigned me by the Lord Jesus. Number one thing in life after you get saved is figuring out what God has assigned you to do. You don't have to know what he's assigned you to do for your whole life. You need to know what you're supposed to be doing right now. And then not worry about, yeah, no, I have something right now, but then what about after that? Don't worry about after that. That's where Jesus, you get into Jesus saying, take no thought upon the morrow. But you need to know what it is, and then you need to structure your life in such a way where you finish it and carry it out. Good to see you, Jesus. Good to see you, Marcel, in uh South Africa. There's a way to structure your life in ministry where you'll have a good 15-year run and burn out or lose your wife or your family. And then there's um, good to see you, Laura. There's a way to structure it, which is how you need to structure it. You need to think, I'm gonna be doing this for 65 years. It's one of the reasons I back when I think we only had Megales on staff. I said, from now on, which was a huge step of faith at the time, book me in a hotel suite. You know, I used to think, well, there's no big deal. I'm staying at the Best Western, Holiday and Express, Standard Room. I'm only here for five days. But then I started to think to myself, no, I'm not here for five days. This is my life. I'm staying in hotels 48 weeks a year. So let me tell you, there's a big difference when you wake up in the morning to an eight-foot drop ceiling with water stains on the board and nowhere to move, and you're like you're in the witness protection program. And then having some space, it affects your mood. It's probably one of the reasons I preach happy and a lot of people preach angry, is because where they're staying and stuff. And you know, you say, like, well, people did Paul have a hotel? Yes, he had a he actually had better, he had a private home in Acts 28, and he stayed in the governor's mansion in Acts 27. He also stayed in prison. I'm not saying I'm not willing, I won't come somewhere if there's no hotel or whatever. I I've I'm I'm fully committed to preaching, but what I'm saying is um you got to structure your life. How often you see your wife, how often you see your children, the time you spend with them, you need to set things up so that you can have a nice long run in the ministry. There's no doubt in my mind that um the reason, you know, it's funny, like for whatever reason, you know how controversial it is for a minister to have a private aircraft. Many of the people that criticize that stuff, preachers with sneakers, whatever, if you watch their stories, business of religion, they're people that went to Bible school and didn't make it in the ministry. And so then they resent people that made it in the ministry and didn't quit. Well, maybe one of the reasons they didn't make it in the ministry was they didn't, they resented the blessing that would help you go 65 years. If your body wears out or your mind wears out, your ministry's over. If you blow a gasket mentally or physically, so taking care of yourself matters, and taking care of your family matters. You know, I'm I'm not only in the ministry, I'm a preacher's son, and my grandfather's in the ministry. I've been around ministry a long time. And uh, you're welcome, Veronica. Nice having you in the meetings. I've been in the ministry a long time. These guys that start out like when they're 30, you know, all I care about is preaching. I'm not there, you're you're gonna you're gonna they burn out in 15 years because that's not how you live. Jesus didn't even live like that. Come apart and rest. Went into a house and said, Don't tell anybody where I'm staying. There's a time, there's a time to rest or to um to run or depart, to separate yourself so that you can complete what God's called you to do. Um I'll share a story about that when I talk about when they'll run. Then 2 Timothy 4, 5 to 8. But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don't be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the gospel and fully carry out the ministry God has given you. I want you to write in the comments life is a marathon, not a sprint. I was having a conversation with Adolis about two ministers that we knew. One fell into sin, and um his life is in ministry are essentially over, or at the very least, extremely damaged. Then he was very talented and impactful. Then there was another minister that we knew that got on the like seeker-sensitive train and had nothing. You know, his ministry was next to nothing. And then in the last two years, he got very hungry for God and started. I saw him at what no eyes seen, I saw him at breakthrough in ministry. He started a second church, he got super on fire for God. And I said, Man, five years ago, if you'd have bet money on which one of these two guys is gonna do well in the ministry, I said, I'd have lost a lot of money because I'd have said that other guy has nothing. And um, this other guy is great. And it changed. You know, that's that story Jesus told. A man had two sons. He told them both to do a task. One said, I won't, but later changed his mind and did. The other said, I will, but then didn't, which one pleased the father? So write this down. Thank you for the love, Alicia. Write this down. It's not how you start, it's how you finish. Now, having said that, you can start well too. I'm looking, write this down under that. I'm looking to go wire to wire. If you're a horse in the Kentucky Derby, the goal is to lead pole to pole. But what I'm saying is, if you've messed up, it's not how you start, it's how you finish. So what you do is you make a point from this day forward. I'm going to not make mistakes. I'm going to follow the leading of the Spirit, and I'm going to know when to run, when to hide, and when to fight. 2 Timothy 4 5. You should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don't be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the gospel. Fully carry out the ministry God has given you. As for me, my life has already been poured out as an offering to God. The time of my death is near. I have fought the good fight. I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful. That's something that anybody should want to say at the end of their life. And now the prize awaits me. The crown of righteousness, which the Lord the righteous judge will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me, but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing. When to run, when to hide, and when to fight. Three secrets to longevity in life and ministry. When to run. It's why I wasn't allowed to, and my sister didn't go. That's an environment of youthful lust to dance up on people. My dad said this one time preaching, it was actually at Zion Bible Institute when I was a student. How Bible colleges started to have Christian dances. My dad said, Show me any man that can hold a woman pressed up against him and not have any lustful thoughts, and I'll show you a homosexual. Did not go over well with the crowd, except for the row I was sitting in, because I was laughing enough for everybody. I've always enjoyed watching religious people get offended. When to run. Distance yourself. Separate. I want you to write that down. Separate. Number three. Second John 1 10. Anyone, if, oh sorry, I missed if. If anyone comes to your meeting and does not teach the truth about Christ, don't invite that person into your home or give any kind of encouragement. That's a New Testament instruction. Let me see King James. Oh, I have it here. If there come any unto you and bring not this doctrine that I'm preaching, don't receive him into your house and don't bid him Godspeed. Don't encourage him. Don't say nice things to him. You know, you wouldn't think that was in the Bible. I mean nowhere to love everybody. Um, and by the way, who wrote 2 John? John, the apostle of love. Little children, one always talking about little children, beloved, unity. But then he said, if uh if somebody comes to you, let me see NLT again. If anyone comes to your meeting and doesn't teach the truth about Christ, don't eat, don't invite him into your home and don't encourage them. What's 11? Anyone who encourages such people becomes a partner in their evil work. Interesting. So run, flee, separate. This is not taught in church. That there has to be separation both from the world, and why do you think there's no um attempt at any revival today church to get all the pastors together to pray? Or we're trying to, you know, trying to get everybody together because we're not all together. I mean, I play clips for you from um, you know, people preaching that John 14, 6 actually doesn't mean Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. How can two walk together unless they agree? I don't, I have nothing in common with you. The Bible says, don't receive them to your house and don't encourage them. We need to have unity. You can't unify with the devil. What fellowship hath God with the devil? The Bible says that. What fellowship does an unbeliever have with a believer? Number four, 2 Timothy 3, 5. Having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof, from such turn away. Stay away from people like that. One translation says, have nothing to do with people like that. So you're to flee or separate from people that deny and reject the Holy Ghost. There's no unity. Hello in Big Spring, Texas. There's no unity to be found. Not against them. But I'm not having you into my church to confuse the people and say a bunch of nonsense about tongues and healing and the power of God. Number five. By the way, number four is separate from people that are anti-anointing, anti-power of the spirit. Because that'll corrupt you. Do you know how many people that used to be full of the Holy Ghost started to go to church conferences that mock the Holy Spirit and mock falling under the power or ministers? And you know, no, I'm just going to learn like church growth, things that they know. Yeah, and then they come back. They've got the same haircut as the guy. They start dressing like that guy. Who you're around affects you more than you know. Number five, Romans 16, 17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. Now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. Mark people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you've taught. Anybody's free to leave a church if it's not a cult. You're free to leave. When you start making it your life's mission to destroy that church after you leave, the church was not going to be destroyed, but I guarantee you you are. I went to a church in Maine. They started opening themselves up to drinking. The associate pastor said the reason we don't have more unsaved people is because we don't go where they go. They're at the bars and we won't go to the bars. We should go and have a drink with them and share the gospel. As he was talking, I leaned over to Dawson and said, We're moving. Because there was nowhere left to go to church in Bangor, Maine, uh, that was any good at that time. I'm not counting Charleston. That's an hour away. Matt Ward's a good guy. But there then there wasn't. So and a lot of you are in that situation. You're going to stay there and rot in some church or just not go to church. But I decided I'm I'm not, I'm going to like go to church. And not just not say, well, wherever we live, there's no good churches. My family's here. I said, we're moving. She said, where? I said, I don't know yet, but I'll I'll let you know. There were there were three strong churches, three good churches in Bangor at that point. One was a charismatic church that the pastor got into alcohol and stuff, and it it doesn't exist anymore. It was doing good then, but it was it had like an uncleanness in it, if you went. They're gone. There was uh another church, the one my grandfather pastored, that the new pastor that took over. Turned out he was having an affair with the worship leader in the choir loft for a long time. But if you went there and had any an ounce of discernment, you could tell something was wrong. So I went there, was out, and then there was this third church where the young pastor that was starting it was a good guy. But when he brought this guy in, I know what that spirit brings. If you introduce that alcohol into your church, you're gonna have divorces, you're gonna have affairs in the church. People are nuts enough without alcohol. So I left. Went to Virginia Beach and went to my Uncle Terry's church and got a major impartation in a lot of areas. It helped my evangelistic ministry quite a bit being at that church under his ministry. In a lot of areas. Number five, avoid foolish and dangerous people. That's what that guy was. I can't remember what happened to him. He's not in the ministry anymore and it hurt the church. There were problems. One of the girls in that church got molested by one of the elders at the church. You know why? Because everybody's drinking. Keep sticking up for alcohol all you want. I'm still waiting to see what ministry wasn't doing well and then introduced alcohol and took off. But I could tell you plenty that it went the other way. Mark and avoid foolish and dangerous people. Anyway, I brought that up. When I left that church, there was no postings about it. Just leave. I'm not their judge. But if you're a middle-aged woman with no job, by all means devote the rest of your life to Instagram posts, nobody reads trying to take a church down. And let's see in five years who's down and who's not down. It's all the same. We got four campuses now, and I go to bunches of churches. Where's the scripture about silly women? Type in silly women. It's in the New Testament. If you don't make a contribution to the kingdom of God in evangelism, follow the command to go into all the world and preach the gospel and get involved, then you're going to get involved in just nonsense. Trying to solve Charlie Kirk's murder from Vermont. I've read the studies. Yeah, great. Let your 23 people on your account that's private know. Let me see, five. Oh no, we already read five. Six. For of this sort are they which creep into houses and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with diverse lusts. Ever learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth. That would have got Paul in some hot water today. Silly women that just, well, now guys don't come into the homes and teach. But that's a thing. You know, I remember this verse came to mind when I was in the ministry. I won't say what state. I can't wait till I'm like 80 and I can just tell every story because everyone's dead. But uh, you know, there's a single lady that had money in the church. Her husband had left her, and uh, she was a good lady. And then they told you, you should go to her house. There's a home Bible study. This guy comes from Nigeria and uh preaches there. And uh, you know, like eight people come over. He's he's a really powerful man of God. I thought he's not that powerful. I thought he's staying in her guest room. She's single, he's married. He's not powerful. Let me see, six. Talking about men which creep into houses and lead captive, silly women laden with sins, led away with diverse lusts. I won't name names, but prophets so-and-so, and prophets so-and-so that have decent-sized churches in LA and in America. Who would you say the bulk of the crowd is? 85% single women laden with sins, and then it comes out. Man, he was sleeping with multiple women in the congregation. Yes, because you're this. You are the our generation's manifestation of 2 Timothy 3, 6. He's a powerful man of God. He comes from Nigeria and stays in her, you know, holds meetings in her home. If he's so powerful, why does he have faith to rent a ballroom? Why is he cozying up to some rich single woman? I sniffed that out when I was 19. I'm gonna tell you something. Apparently, this needs to be said, even though I have no clue why it needs to be said. You know, there's there's um allegations getting ready to come out against an individual that's in the ministry that's pretty prominent. I just, for the first time, it's not out yet. I just messaged a place where I'm gonna preach. And I said, if this person is taking part in the service, then I'm not preaching. I will not be on a platform with that person. I don't go everywhere. You know, what's gonna come out about this guy? Somebody, I mean, it's all posted. Guy said, I used to travel with him when I was young, and he said he wanted us all to stay together that we're traveling. So it was he wanted me to stay in his room, and there was only one bed, and he said it's fine. He said, Nothing happened, but it was a very uncomfortable night. Listen, all the ladies and all the guys quit. Again, the fact that you have to tell people this is insane. Somebody being a minister or somebody that you hold in high regard does not give them the right to tell you that they need you to sleep with them. He's under a lot of pressure, and you'll like, you'll help him. That is like such demonic cultish behavior. And the fact that every generation there's a new group of morons that fall for it. I'm not talking about 11-year-olds or 14-year-olds that are taking advantage of it. I'm talking about grown women and grown men. You, you know, and yes, they were victimized because somebody that was in power abused their power. And that guy will go to hell likely for that. Especially if obviously if he doesn't repent, he will go to hell. That's such an abuse of what God's entrusted you with in the ministry. But also, have some sense as somebody that goes to church. If something feels wrong, it's wrong. I have never at any campus, first of all, I don't think I've gone out anywhere with anybody. For this reason. I was telling Adoles yesterday, if people wanted to criticize me, they could say, um, I went to Revival Today Church for four years, and John, I I never had one interaction with Jonathan. That's right. But I'll tell you what they can't say. I went to Revival Today Church, and Jonathan took a special interest in me and said he can really see God's hand on my life, and he would like to spend time with me for closer mentorship, and then it got uncomfortable. Nobody can say that. I'm as cold as an Irish grandma. So stuff, everybody's watching. Quit it. Just quit doing that. There's a problem when you're a lady and the pastor invites you over to his house. Yeah, I'd love to have you come over and just share some deeper things with you. How about the scripture? What I say to one, I say to all. This girl's like a daughter to me. Oh, yeah, you're 43. She's 35. She's like a daughter to you. You know, to me, it's almost getting to be like church shootings. Like at this point, you're at fault for allowing the shooting. And at this point, how many is uh how much of this stuff has to come up before you realize I don't care how high of a regard you hold somebody in, when they cross that line of being flirtatious or inappropriate messages, you know, I I run. Flee lust. That's what Pastor Edaboy said. You'll never have an anointing strong enough to countermand God's command to flee it. No, you know, I can be around that. No, you can't. The Bible says run. Joseph was mightily anointed. When Potiphar's wife wanted to have sex with him, he tore himself away and took out of the house. If you'll keep a guard up at that area, you won't have any problems. You know, Raphaela used to travel on the road before. Now she's full-time at the church. Tessa's here. Um, I'm trying to think if there's that. Clarita, Clarita flew with me for a long time. Ask him if I remember, like, you know, we rent two cars. It's me and Abraham. Uh Tessa's husband's on the road. Raphaela went with Jake. There was, there's no um, no, it's cool, you know, you work for me. I even, I really and I still would like to do this. I would love to take a personal trainer on the road so that I'll work out when I'm on the road. Because if I don't have an appointment to break, I'm not disciplined enough to go to the gym. Um, but what can I do? If I take a guy with me, I look gay. If I take a lady female trainer, you know, if I saw any evangelist traveling with a female personal trainer because he wants to work out a bit, yeah, sure he does. So that's called avoiding the appearance of evil. Even though I'm I don't have a problem that way. I'm I really would just want to work out, but you can't do it. Because you look shady. So if a pastor tells you to get in his car and it's you and him, you know, and if the pastor's kind of gay and you're a guy and he wants to, he's taking the special interest in you, he's gay. Good God. A Christian couldn't spot a homosexual in church if you had a 357 there. No, he's a nice guy. He has a good heart. Tell his cardiologist, he's a gay guy with a good heart. Flee. Write the word down, three letters. Run. R-U-N. I am in Ripley, West Virginia, tonight and tomorrow, and they have been great meetings. I'd love for you to join us. And we're gonna have a special family blessing service this Sunday morning in Pittsburgh. It's gonna be great. You should get your family in God's house. It's gonna be powerful. Number two. Give strong drink to the weary and heavy laden so they can drink their sorrows away. Can you find it or no? Proverbs 31, six. Give strong drink to him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink and forget his poverty, remember his misery no more. You want to make that your life verse? Somebody put that in the comments. You think that countermands the rest of the teaching of the Bible on alcohol? Put six up again. Is that you? Are you dying? Are you in bitter distress? Get saved. Not an applicable verse for a believer. If you're weary and heavy laden, give your burden to Jesus instead of Jack Daniels or Schlitz or whatever you're drinking. Christians, I let me just tell you, and I don't ask, and I don't, your business is your business. But if you're gonna be a Christian, be a Christian because you're not a good sinner. Got all these guys my age that are in the ministry. I drink. Yeah, you drink white claw, the gayest possible alcoholic beverage you can have. You you big, I'd rather have a rainbow flag wrapped around my chest with nipple rings than be caught with a uh a white claw in my hand. You don't even drink right. Oh, okay. All right, Carl. Yeah, find that one. Go to verse um four on Proverbs 31. It's not, there it is. It's not for kings, O Lemon, to guzzle wine. Rulers should not crave alcohol. It's a so it's Solomon saying, basically, Solomon saying, hey, my son, let the degenerates that are out on the street, let them drink to forget their poverty and that they don't have anything. But for you that want to be a king, we we don't do that. That's what the Bible teaches. Great job, Carl. Number one, write down when to run. Number two, when to hide. Longevity requires knowing when not to answer, not to react, not to post, not to defend yourself, and not expose yourself publicly. Write down, there's a time to hide. That's a good point. Most of the uh Ms. Tafe said most of the world's trying to quit alcohol. Why are Christians trying to drink? I saw a great stat. I posted on my Instagram story that um alcohol in the young generation is like way down. And then people would joke, yeah, alcohol's down because people are smoking marijuana instead, but but that's that's like level. 34%, I think, of high school, high schoolers uh smoke weed, which has pretty much stayed the same, way down from the 70s, and then the the drinking's weighed down, so it's good. That's a good question. How do you feel about ministry teams staying in lodge-style accommodations? I agree 100% with your thinking. Where's the line when no hotels are limited Airbnbs? It needs to be well supervised by trustworthy people, or that's that's gonna be a major problem. I heard of another ministry. If I said the name, a lot of you would know who it was. Go ahead and pop the pop it up on the screen so people know I'm not lying. Huge collapse in drinking among high schoolers. So in the 70s, it was at 92%. That's why when you hear me say people talking about we need to get back to where America loved God, the 70s and 60s were a train wreck. That's when legalized abortion, prayer taken out of school, there wasn't a good day. That was like the opposite of revival. Look at it now. From 92% consuming alcohol in high school, in the 90s, it was still at 80% when I was in high school, and now 47%. I mean, let's be honest, it's partially because of revival and partially because half that generation is autistic and doesn't know how to socialize, but it still counts. Number two, when to hide. Longevity requires knowing when not to answer, not to react, not to post, not to defend yourself or and not to expose yourself publicly. Um, Pastor Etaboye. And then with hide, right, rest. R-E-S-T. Hide, rest. There's a time to hide and rest. Jesus did it. And we'll read about others that did. Pastor Etaboye told an interesting story in that devotional. He said, if he spoke more than, he said, I was so concerned about the growth of the church that I was always praying, fasting, and teaching and preaching all the time. And he said, uh, it got to the point where I could speak for 15 minutes, and at the 15-minute mark, my voice would cut out. And an old lady came up to me at the end of a service and said, You have teaching disease. She said, I'm a teacher. You're using your voice too much. You need to rest your voice. And she told him how much the voice needs to rest based on how much it's used. And she said, You won't listen to me because she said, I can tell you're not going to listen to me because you can still speak for 15 minutes. But she said, when it goes down to five minutes, you'll listen to me. And he said, I, you know, no Pentecostal has ever taught about rest. Now it's like overtaught. Pastors are on an eight-month sabbatical every nine months. But uh there comes a time to rest. Number one, under when to hide. 1 Kings 17, 3. Get thee hence and turn the eastward and hide thyself by the brook Cherith that is before Jordan. Write down, hide thyself. What had Elijah just prophesied? That there'd be no rain that falls until I give the word. If he had stayed by the palace, there would have been people pressuring him. Elijah, people are starving to death. You need to call rain down. So go away. And then when he did come back in chapter 18, what did the king say? Oh, it's Israel's troublemaker. There's going to be people putting undue pressure on you to use your gift in a way that you're not supposed to use your gift. So there's a time to hide, a time to withdraw. I had a uh a ministry majorly attacking me years back. Telling pastors, calling them up and telling them not to have me. I wouldn't have Jonathan in if I were you, making stuff up about me. I've never mentioned it. I'm still not mentioning it. There's a time to withdraw. There's a time to not respond. Number two. 1 Samuel 19, 18. So David fled and escaped and came to Samuel to Ramah and told him all that Saul had done to him. And he and Samuel went and dwelt in Naath. When Saul was attacking David, David went to where the prophet was and just lived with him. Didn't do any king work, didn't start his own kingdom, didn't go to war. Sometimes it's time to withdraw. Now, I want you to write this down. My life will be determined by my ability to discern when it's time to do these three things. If you were a pastor and you hid during COVID when it was time to fight, you lost a lot of money and a lot of people. But if you fight when it's time to withdraw, that God's not with you. You know, that's what I go by. I feel, not in my flesh, I feel in my spirit to lay in to somebody sometimes. Or like I'm gonna go against this thing hard, like during COVID. And there's other times where I specifically feel leave it alone. David did not immediately retaliate against Saul. He withdrew to a spiritual atmosphere and stayed under a prophetic covering. Matthew 27, 14. And he answered him to never a word, insomuch that the governor marveled greatly. Jesus refused to answer certain accusations. There's times silence is greater than self-defense. Now, there's times when Jesus laid into somebody, and there's times where like this where he wouldn't answer. And it's like people just pick one. So if I respond to somebody, you know, Jesus opened not his mouth against his accusers. Yeah, but then other times, he sure did open his mouth against accusers and move some furniture around. So you can't just pick one group of scriptures. People that are weak and are non-confrontational know all the rest and hide scriptures, and people that want to fight all the time know all the confrontation scriptures. But you gotta know. There are times silence is greater than self-defense. Number four, 1 Samuel 22, 1. David therefore departed and escaped to the cave of Adjulum. David hid in the cave of Adjulum. And David was a mighty man of war. Even he realized there's times, not now. Apparently, China felt that way about the Iran thing. I'm not doing this. Same with Russia. You're gonna have to figure this one out on your own, Iran. We're not fighting. They were right. Mark 3, 7. But Jesus withdrew himself and his disciples to the sea. Jesus withdrew himself from hostile crowds. Give me another one. Give me when they lowered Paul over the wall by a basket and he escaped. So during the night, some of the other believers lowered him in a large basket through an opening in the city wall, 26. When Saul arrived in Jerusalem, he tried to meet with the believers, but they were all afraid of him. They did not believe he had truly become a believer. So he escaped over a wall. They lowered him down. He didn't confront Acts 16, he stood and confronted. Acts 9, he got out of there. You gotta know when it's time to get out, and you gotta know when it's time to fight. Let me tell you something, because I was preaching and teaching on prayer last night. Even in prayer, sometimes I feel like in prayer I'm moving a couch and nobody's on the other end helping me. And sometimes you feel God picking up the other end and helping you. Even your prayer. Pray in accordance with the Spirit, not trying to force the Spirit to do something that He's not looking to do. I've told this story before. I was in a small church and I uh the meetings weren't going good. And I would I went on a fast. That day I was before I was married and just stayed in the hotel and was praying. Lord, help me have a revival here. Give me a breakthrough. Let there be a revival in this place. And after I said revival like the third time, I felt the Lord speak to me very clearly. Who said I want this place revived? You're trying to breathe life into something I'm happy to see die. I want you to write something down. All the faith in the world can't pray the leprosy off of Gehazi. G-E-H-A-Z-I. He had leprosy because he touched God's money. So you can actually work against God sometimes, you know, just wanting everything blessed. And some things are being judged. Bishop uh uh Dag Haywood Mills. Happy birthday, by the way, Bishop Dag. Running to record a greeting for him after. Um, he changed my thinking on that because again, I'm wired the fight way. So for me, it's like, let's go do a crusade in Portland, Oregon. Let's go do a crusade in Minneapolis, let's go do a crusade in Seattle. Like wherever the devil, let's go to San Francisco, let's just find everywhere the devil thinks he owns it, blow him out. But Bishop Deggs said, work in accordance with where God's blessing. If a nation comes open or a city comes open or a state, go there and pour into it rather than trying to like plow uphill. Now, sometimes the Lord will, again, you got to discern when to do it. But you it's it's an easier life to cooperate with God than try to force him through prayer and bringing scriptures to him to do something he's not looking to do. I want you to write this down. All the faith in the world can't pray the flood away. There's things that are gonna happen prophetically. It's like it's why it's funny when I hear people pray for world peace, Lord, as this war in Iran ends. Let there be no more wars. That's not gonna happen. Unless God magically erases Matthew 24 out of every Bible. Derek said, Come to Memphis. Okay, so I'll drive, I'll fly there, and then what? Just stand downtown and yell, Derek! Until I get further instructions. So, everybody right, when to hide. There was a pastor and his wife that were in a small town, and there was a Facebook message group, which I'm sure a lot of the pastors here deal with. Local town group that just bash you and your wife and your church and make stuff up and just tear you to shreds online. So she was showing it to me, the wife, and I wrote this and I wrote this. I want you to write something down because this is three secrets to longevity in life and ministry. Write this down. For every one person I turn off, I turn off an additional 200 people. Want me to give you an example? I was playing NHL 26, and uh that other team that I'm playing with that's all uh Canadians. This guy, um, this guy on the team was going to church in the morning. So obviously I'm joking around here. When I said this, it was late at night, and this kid was 13. So his parents are taking him to church at eight in the morning, and we were all fighting on the game. All four of us got in a fight at the same time with guys on the other team. This is in a video game. So I said to the kid, I said, I'll give you, I'll find a way to send a thousand dollars to you. If tomorrow when you walk into church, the first person, the first guy you see, you just grab his dress shirt, pull it over his head, and start wailing on him. So everybody laughs. And this one guy that's like 30 from Canada, he went, I'll do it. He doesn't go to church. He's like, I know exactly what church I would do it at. I said, I said, which church? I was like curious why he had such a pent-up hatred for one church. He's like, it's called Lighthouse. So I looked it up. Actually, I have it saved on my um open browsers because I wanted to read about it. It's a Pentecostal church. He's like, I was like, what's the church like? He's like, they're Pentecostal. And um, I was like, what does that mean? He's like, they get super involved in their people. No, he goes, they're always trying to get everybody to go. And secondly, he's like, they get super involved in their people's lives. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, my buddy was dating this girl, and she went to that church, and they told him or her that he's of the devil. And and and this guy says to me, you know, he doesn't know anything about Christianity. He's like, he's not of the devil, he's just a guy. He's my buddy. So you think of that. You know, most ministers don't get that stuff. I want you to write this down. I'm gonna a little off subject, but it'll help. An old preacher told me this, and he is absolutely right. Write this down. If I insult someone, it will get back to them. If I compliment someone, it will get back to them. I promise you, right now, even though this is not the Johnny Carson show with eight million people watching by any means. If I said something negative right now about Benny Hinn, somebody would clip it, somebody's watching that's a person away from him or two people away, they would record it and they'd send it to him. And then I've had the opposite happen. You know, I mentioned when we had way less people watching four years ago, five years ago, I said, um, Donald Trump watches Jimmy Swaggard almost every day. He loves his preaching. And I said, you know what that shows? A billionaire wants to hear about the cross and the blood and Jesus coming back. I got a call that evening from Jimmy Swaggard's grandson, Gabe Swaggard. I I heard you talk, somebody sent me a clip of you talking about my grandfather today. Would you mind coming on our program and telling him and saying what you said? It got right back to him. So look at this. You know, those those pastors of that little church in that town in Ontario thought they were having a private conversation with this girl. Now the guys ticked off, his friends ticked off. He's telling me, now I actually know about a church in the middle of nowhere in Ontario and know negative information about it because of them not knowing how to keep their mouths shut. We had a girl in one of our church campuses. I like her and her family a lot. I know them, I know their names. You know, I don't know everybody's names. I don't know uh, you know, I saw a post. If your pastor doesn't know your name, it's time to get a new church. You think Peter knew all 3,120 people's names on the day of Pentecost? He blockhead. Jeez, be more self-important. Reminds me of that scene in um Sin of a Woman when Al Pacino's brother's wife says, How come you still don't know my name? He goes, probably because it's not important to me. Now, that's not the case with me, but that's a funny answer. So this girl gets a boyfriend. She's an older teenager, and uh probably she's out of high school. She brings him to church, he clearly hates my guts, introduces to me to him after, still is as stoic and hates my guts looking as possible. I was very nice. Nice to meet you, glad you came to church. Didn't mention anything. It was a wrong relationship. But you know what? She's not my daughter. And you want to know what? Even if she is my daughter, if I haven't raised her well enough by the time she's 16 to know who to pick, you can't make somebody fall out of love. Ask Romeo and Juliet's parents. Love's strong. Because somebody's in love and you can show them 10 reasons out of the bell. He doesn't have a job and he's a convicted murderer. And um, whatever. You can't talk Ava Braun out of loving Adolf Hitler. You know, she's attracted to psycho, genocidal psychopaths. So um, I didn't say anything. And then she came up to me months later, four months maybe. I never asked, I never said anything, I never hinted anything. Hey, I want you to know I broke up with my boyfriend. He was the wrong guy. And she messaged Dallas on Instagram, same thing. Thanks for praying for me. And uh, you know, I think sometimes people know you disapprove and they want to hear you say it. And if you don't say it, it messes everything up. Because they know deep down it's not the right person. But now, what if I feel like if I had to confronted, I don't, he's not the can I talk to you over to the side? Do you really? I know he stared at me through the whole service. He doesn't love God. You have the hand of God on your life. She might still be with him. In doing that, you can actually galvanize two people together and then they they leave, leave people. Write this in the comments, and I'm saying it for me. Write this. I am not the Holy Spirit. You can't convict people, you can't lead people. Your job as a minister is to sow the word and get people full of the Holy Ghost and full of the Bible, and let the word renew their mind and let the Holy Spirit lead them. And there's no substitute for that. So I just found it interesting that that guy, who hopefully is going to come to the meetings in Ontario, he said he is with his brother. But he he he would have been happy to go in there and punch those people. And see, if you're a pastor, now you can't you can't avoid that happening. There's people that crucified Jesus and he never did one thing wrong. So that's people. But you can you can mitigate it by making sure it's only for the only criticism you're receiving is because of the anointing and what God's using you to do, not exacerbating it by laying into people. Now, listen to this. This is more for ministry, but hopefully everybody will get something out of this. I see the crowd's growing, so apparently you're liking it. If you pastor in Los Angeles, or Dallas, or Chicago, or New York City, or Miami, or Houston, Texas, you can offend a lot of people needlessly, and you're still gonna be okay because there's a there's millions of people that live there. So it's still stupid, but when you live in a smaller town or even a smaller city like Pittsburgh, everybody knows each other. And if you needlessly lay into somebody, or do what a lot of small town pastors do, where every day you make an inflammatory post about Donald Trump or about Lib Tards or about the vaccine. I'm not saying, I'm saying everything you're saying is correct. But you're your routine is to tick off people in your town when people respond because it gets you traction, zing them with with, show people that this guy wrote this. I said this. And you do that in your town, you're gonna run out of people pretty quick. And I'm telling you, I've preached in churches where I got the feeling in my spirit, this guy's church isn't gonna grow because no one in this town likes him. He's actually run through the whole town. You know, and again, if you live in um, like when I lived in Virginia Beach, that's a Navy town. There's new people moving in all the time. So there's gonna be more of a cur more of a curve for that because you have new people. But if you're pastoring in Chillicoffe, Ohio, or uh Huntington, Texas, where no one's moving there, there's only a few people, and you you lay into a guy on social media and insult him, his cousins now don't like you, his mom and dad don't like you, their brothers and sisters don't like you. I'm telling you, for so I'm not saying you can't ever do it, but when you do, just know I'm I'm I'm probably permanently turning off about 200 people right now in my town. And if you're in a town of 20,000, you can do that a hundred times before you're out of people. And that's why a lot of churches don't grow. Because you're you're your interactions on social media. And you got the last word, and everything you said was right, but nobody in your town likes you. So that there was a Facebook. Now, as much as you uh feel I'm combative, and I am combative, there's a message board in uh uh where our church is in Pittsburgh that's solely devoted on Facebook to just laying into our church. I've never been on it, I've never seen it. I'm not in my mid-80s, so I'm not on Facebook. And I instructed our church on a Sunday morning. You can find the clip. I don't want anybody that claims they go to this church to ever be on that message board. They say we're a cult. If you start saying Jonathan's great, he's a wonderful man of God, we start sounding like a cult. I said, we're looking to promote Jesus Christ. Not make sure I win a popularity contest in Pittsburgh or anywhere else. Leave it alone. And that's how our church grew during the intense persecution there was in Pittsburgh. The Pittsburgh Post Gazette wrote stuff about me. Anytime it said revival today was asked for comment, it then followed and was unavailable for comment. I got nothing to say to you. That was a track, a trap of the devil that we dodged. Because if I'd have done, if I act behaved foolishly, it would have turned it into our church against the city. And when you do that, you can't reach the city. That's one guy, and a lot of people don't like the mayor anyway. Not in Pittsburgh, anywhere. Any politician has like a negative favorability rating. So you can survive that. You can grow doing that. But you can't start attacking individuals. You know, when somebody writes something negative about you online, you own a business, they do it against your business, they do it against you personally, they do it against you in the ministry. I'd go through a little bit of a checklist. Do they have a profile picture? Do they have a negative follower rate? By that I mean do they follow more people than follows them? That means that, you know, if you follow 4,800 people and have 2,000 followers, that means people don't generally like you. You definitely are not an influential person, put it that way. You know, when you have people write bad stuff about you and they have a locked account, I'm gonna devote my time to taking this church down. Well, your account's private, so you're gonna have an uphill battle. And then, you know, somebody's reposting, trying to take you down. They have less than a hundred followers. Is it worth your time? The only way they're gonna get any traction is if you respond to them. It's a trap. Anyway, I told that lady and her husband, don't engage with that group. And they wouldn't listen. I went back to preach for them, or they would come to a meeting I was doing, and they would bring up again that Facebook message group and look what they wrote, and then I wrote this. I said, I told you to stop doing that. You live in a small town, and their attendance was already down, and their money was down, they don't get it. And then, you know, we ended up breaking fellowship because they don't listen. And they ended up having to shut that church down and leave a 20-some-year-old church that doesn't exist anymore. Because they don't discern when to run, when to hide, and when to fight. If you brought Billy Graham and Reinhardt Bonkey back from the dead and they held a meeting at that church when they were pastoring, you you the meetings would not have grown because nobody in that town was willing to go to that church. And you know, there's churches like that. It's one of the benefits of doing a neutral venue meeting, is it doesn't have any history or anything. When you're an evangelist, you take on the shape of that church. So um, you know, there's a there's churches, there's a church, I should say, that that that pastor greatly wronged Adolis and I. So if if my dad was preaching at that church, I'm not coming. I love you, I love your ministry, you're close by, I would love to hear you preach. I'm not setting foot in that place. It's not unforgiveness. I don't want, I'm not being near them. The Bible tells you not to. I I I read a study on one of these broadcasts. I read it to you one time, um, that negative information affects you ten times more than positive information. You know, it's like uh a few Sundays back, the production was subpar at our Sunday service. So I wrote that to the group, which I do rarely. Now, a zillion times, I'll write great job and stuff, but I guarantee you, most people probably think like Jonathan's harsh. Because the one time you correct outweighs a hundred times of positive affirmation because you're wired. People allowing, you know, if you're a preacher and you have 48 people come to the altar to get saved, and they're crying their eyes out, and people are praising the Lord. Then on your way out, a lady says, Can I talk to you real quick? Um, I want you to know that we had a uh a bit of an issue with you saying this or you not doing this or whatever. And so we we've decided we're gonna leave the church. That pastor goes home thinking about that family leaving, not about the 48 people that got saved. That's how people are. You gotta rewire yourself to not be like that, or you're gonna get burnout. There's things that Dallas and I like that try to flare up. I told her the other day, I said, can you imagine if we were like normal people that didn't know about this going into the ministry? We'd we just we need to talk to this family. Did you hear they said this? Let's have a meeting with them. And that's how if you have a small church, I can almost guarantee you you busy yourself trying to get people that are attacking you to that that go to your church to like, you know, hey, I saw you wrote this. That's not true. And you know, I you may have heard me say that, but I didn't mean it that way. You're wasting your time. Two people leave, go get eight people. Reach out. People leave. Adam and Eve betrayed God. He met with them in the cool of the day every day, and they still obeyed Satan. You can't make people loyal to you, and you can't make people stay at church. And any attempt to do that, it starts getting pretty cultish pretty quick. Can't make comments. Some people come to this church and leave, they're gonna see that the blessing. Nobody wants to be around a combative atmosphere all the time. That's why the biggest church in America, Joel Osteen's church that his dad founded, they called it the oasis of love. Church needs to be a place where people, though for some people, the one place that they can go where they feel peace and love. Not a fight every day. There were times I had to mention what was going on when Moon Township in Pittsburgh was suing us just because the church people here and stuff, so I would tell them things from the pulpit so they could hear from their pastor what we're doing, why we're doing it, why what they heard was a lie. But that was very sporadic. If I came into the pulpit every Sunday, and some of you saw this in the news today, let me tell you this. People are going to leave, even people that are on my side, because people want to go to church. They don't want to be involved in the Jonathan Shuttlesworth afternoon drama show. They got enough drama in their own life. Rest. Withdrawing. That couple wouldn't listen to me and they lost their church. Because they couldn't discern when it was time to hide. They fought when they should have hid. I knew when the Pittsburgh Post Gazette that ended up going bankrupt, of course they wanted me to respond. The only way they were going to get any readers or response was if I reposted it. Nobody read it. And a lot of the people that attack you, they're just looking for you. They're hoping you'll engage with them so they can get their message out because they don't have a way to get their message out. If somebody's attacking your ministry and they have like 200 followers, what are you going to respond to them for? Which then draws more eyes to it. You know, they don't matter. It's like a gnat nipping at an elephant. They can't do anything. They can bite and bite and bite and fly around and make little buzzing gnat noise. They can't, you can't stop a big elephant as a gnat. It's impossible. There's a time to withdraw. Go hide yourself by Kareth Brooke. One chapter later, he killed every prophet of Baal and Ashtera. But not then. Wasn't time. There's a time to hide. There's a time to rest. I think it was in Newark, New Jersey, or Asbury Park when they were majorly persecuting our ministry and looking to take us out. My uncle Ted called me and he said, When do you finish that meeting? I said, Friday night. He said, Don't stay Friday night. Have your car packed, and when the meeting's over, go get out of there. Two and a half hours or so and go down to the beach. Take your family and go rest. It's time to get out, time to run. Pay attention to where you're at. We just, and I'm telling you, people pick one of these three things. They're experts in running, and they always run and never stand up to anything. They're experts in hiding. They're always detached. They've separated themselves from everybody. They have no relationship. Or they're fighters and they're always fighting. You know, went from Fauci during COVID to now that COVID's over. Because you need a fight. Some preachers are like arms dealers. They need there to be a war for them to have money. The only way they know how to have a ministry is by attacking and being in a feud. They don't know how to preach the gospel and lead people to Christ and just do the work of the ministry. Number three, when to fight. Some things, write this down, some things cannot be ignored. There are moments when confrontation protects you, protects your church, protects your business, and preserves the truth. You know, probably at all of our church campuses, we've got families where the mom and kids come and the dad's strongly against the church. Well, if I preach against him, do you think the mom and kids are still gonna? No, now they don't feel comfortable. Everybody knows you're talking about the don't hit when it's unnecessary. Everybody write, time to fight. When is there time to fight? Where is it in the Bible? Galatians 2.11. But when Peter came to Antioch, I would, this is Paul talking, but when Peter came to Antioch, I withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed. What a great verse. But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face for what he did was very wrong. He was to be blamed. Paul rebuked Peter. Acts 13, 10. Then Paul said, You son of the devil, full of every sort of deceit and fraud, and enemy of all that is good, will you never stop perverting the true ways of the Lord? And now, 11, and now the Lord has laid his hand of judgment upon you. And you'll be struck blind. You will not see the sun. Most of you would have flipped out if you were there. You know, I thought Paul was an apostle, but I can't imagine calling yourself a Christian, let alone an apostle, and using God's power to blind someone. Because most people, they they only know hide and run. But there is also fight. You will not see the sunlight for some time. Instantly, mist and darkness came over the man's eyes, and he began groping around and begging for someone to take his hand and lead him. Then what, Paul apologized? Oh, sorry. Okay, that's no, left him blind. Elisha left Gehazi with leprosy, him and his family for the rest of their life. There's a time to fight. There's a time to bless, and there's a time to curse. Number three, 2 Timothy 2, 17. And their word will eat as doth a canker, of whom is Himaeus and Philatus. This kind of talk spreads like cancer, as in the case of listed specific people, Himeneas and Philatus. Let me see 16. Avoid worthless, foolish talk that only leads to more godless behavior. 17. This kind of talk spreads like cancer, as in the case of Himeneas and Philatus. 18. They have left the path of truth, claiming that the resurrection of the dead has already occurred. In this way, they have turned some people away from the faith. Paul did not treat destructive doctrine lightly. He openly identified men who were overthrowing people's faith. Paul publicly rebuked false teachers by name. By the way, he was an apostle, not a housewife or a congregant. So, and I don't get into it because I, you know, you can cross the line. Paul can do it. I'll tell you why I don't call out people by name and rebuke them. Even like the guy that I mentioned that bad stuff's gonna come out about. I didn't I didn't tell you the name. It'll come out. But one reason I don't do that is I have to be careful. Write this down. What the leader does, the followers do. So John MacArthur always called out preachers by name. And what did his ministry produce? A bunch of people that follow him that are mad at everybody and feel free to just lay into anybody they want to lay into, you'll cut your life short doing that because eventually you're gonna you're gonna touch the wrong person. It's a mistake. And I don't want the people that follow me to be online critics and people that have discernment ministries. That all they do is crack on other ministers. It's a mistake. I want to produce soul winners and church builders. 3rd John 1.9. I wrote unto the church, but theotrophes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. There's John exposing, and then he most of the letter is about him being uh not being a good leader. And I'm gonna come and tell you more about what he's doing when I'm in person. 1 Timothy 1.20. Of whom is Himenaeus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they might learn not to blaspheme God. So apparently Paul was not done turning people over to the devil. He blinded that sorcerer, and then he didn't say, See, that's why when people are like, I mean, no, we're to love them though. Not always. Himanaeus and Alexander are two examples of what? Let me see 18. Timothy, my son, here are my instructions for you based on the prophetic words spoken about you earlier. May they help you to fight well in the Lord's battles. Cling to your faith in Christ. Keep your conscience clear. For some people have deliberately violated their consciences. As a result, their faith has been shipwrecked. Himenaeus and Alexander are two examples. I threw them out. Write that down. I threw them out. If you've been following me for any period of time, you've seen me throw people out of church. How could any minister that claims to love God throw someone out? Very easily and very quickly. I threw them out of the church and handed them over to Satan so they might learn not to blaspheme God. That's in the Bible, whether you like it or not. So again, you're gonna become a very unbalanced Christian if you only take one of these three things. You're only a wester. You're only a fleer. You know, I know, I know guys that are ministers. They have no relationship with anybody in the body of Christ. If you're a pastor, I want to ask you a question. When's the last time you've had somebody come and speak at your church? No one ever comes. You're becoming a withdrawn cultic island. You have zero anything with the rest of the body of Christ. If you get super principled, you won't have a relationship with anyone, and you'll have a perfect reason why you have a relationship with no one. He lied, she's an adulteress, he drinks, this guy curses. So you have a reason and you won't have any fellowship with anybody. The Bible says make allowance for each other's faults. Again, write this down. I will be a very unbalanced person if I only pick one of these three things. But if I allow the Holy Spirit to give me wisdom when it's time to run, separate, when it's time to hide, and when it's time to fight, then I'll uh I'll live a productive life and I'll have longevity. You know, David was a trained killer from his youth, killing bears, killing lions, killing giants, killing people. And apparently when he found Saul, his chief enemy, you know, he went to, eh, I don't really feel like a release to kill this guy. I'll cut part of his robe. And then the Lord told him, You shouldn't even have done that. That was a sin. So if you're always fighting, eventually you're gonna cut the wrong person and you're gonna get judged by God. And if you're always resting, then you're gonna find out there's things God sent you to confront. If your wife's acting nuts, you just ignoring it and hoping it goes away is not gonna solve the problem. You know, if a woman's husband won't come to church and she goes to church with the kids, that's admirable. If a man's wife won't come to church or the kids, and he goes, you are a bad leader. I'm not saying you're if it continues to happen, you're a bad leader. That should be the thing. Those are things you stand up against, not by rebuking them or cursing them with blindness. You confront things in the spirit. I'm not having a divided house. You go to one church, your husband, your wife goes to the other. You're not a proper husband. Can you imagine a dollas telling me? I mean, before we had our own churches, Jonathan, Camila and I don't really enjoy the church that you've chosen to go to. We're going to head to this church. We're a family. We don't have two leaders. We have one direction as our family. I wrote this down. Some of you never fight, and that's why there's problems. Write it down. Resist the devil. There's things you have to confront. Paul never has his breakthrough in Acts 13 if he didn't realize that sorcerer is the problem, and I'm going to take him out in the spirit. But then there are other times he didn't go after the problem. He had him lower than by a basket and got out. Some of you never fight, and that's why there's problems. You don't confront anything. And some of you like to fight so much you'll you fight your helpers instead of your enemies. We've had this happen a couple of times. Ministries that we support or nonprofits we support start posting anti-prosperity stuff, or then start like saying stuff where they're obviously talking about me. All right. You got freedom of speech, but you've seen your last penny from me. Just attack. You don't even have any sense. Just fighting all the time, making stuff up. I was at a gathering at the White House, and somebody brought up Kenneth Copeland was there, and these Baptists, you know, you thought they don't believe in prosperity. They don't believe in healing. They don't believe in the faith message. These Baptist leaders said that guy is our largest contributor for this ministry and this ministry. You're not going to hear me say a word about him. You know what that's called? Sense. It's compromise. No, it's called sense. You're going to attack a guy. Why is it, why is it uh uh it's compromise to keep your mouth shut? What's the virtue in defaming people online? I've confronted him. No, you didn't. You did an online post. He didn't confront anybody. What's the Paul scripture? Galatians 2.11. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed. Everybody write, I opposed him to his face. Write that down. Oppose him to his face. I'm called to um confront the Jezebels that are in the church. On your Facebook page, you big sissy. That guy that runs the preachers with pastors with planes was at the National Religious Broadcasters things, always writing stuff against preachers with planes. When he saw me, what do you think he did? Hey. I just wrote to him the other day. Show me on the doll where the airplane hurt you. Tough online, weakened person. Find me the scripture where Paul said, if you think I'm being. They say Paul's only strong in his letters, but I'll come in person and show you how strong I am. I'm bringing reformation to the church. Sure you are. Through your little freaking social media page. You're a real Martin Luther changing history. I call out sin. Yeah, no one cares, Brenda. For some say Paul's letters are demanding and forceful, but in person he is weak and his speeches are worthless. Those people should realize that our actions when we arrive in person will be as forceful as what we say in our letters from far away. You think I'm strong on my letter? I'm gonna do the exact same thing when I come there. But no one to fight, or you're gonna end up just fighting everybody. You notice that when um a lot of a lot of the ministries that call out wrong things in the body of Christ, they start out with a great motive. But I mean, uh I haven't seen one yet that's been around for a while. Where it starts going from, I'm gonna stand up against sexual abuse that's taking place in church. That's good. Can't do that enough. But then when there's no sex abuse that day to stand up against, then it goes to Greg Laurie lives in a $2 million home. Should a pastor have a home that's this big? Uh Joel Osteen has a huge house. Should a pastor have a home this nice? And you start fighting stuff that is not anything to do with bringing reformation in the church. It's just you being a nosy bastard and a covetous person. Because you got to be careful. God does put a fight in the believer. But you need to be led when to use it and not just have it turned on all the time and just attack, attack, attack. And before you know it, you're gonna be by yourself. You're gonna be by yourself in the ministry. Your church is gonna be very small because all you do is attack. I'll tell you another thing, too. Let me see Galatians 2.11 again. But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face because he was to be blamed. Write this down. Paul had access to Peter. You're never called to rebuke somebody that you have got no relationship with. In the body of Christ I'm talking about. You want to rebuke a sorcerer, knock yourself out. You're welcome, Cynthia. I hope this helps. And that'll also help you in the ministry. God doesn't send stray people to rebuke you. David had a relationship with Nathan the prophet. When you're a believer, God uses the people he put in your life. You know, don't pay any attention to somebody just writing you out of the blue. God showed me a dream that you're going to die this summer if you don't repent. Great. God bless you. No, no profile picture, six followers. God's not using them to do anything. They're nuts. A lot of people are what we used to call in the 80s nuts. I had a pastor in the Pittsburgh area write me when we started our church in Pittsburgh. The Lord's warned me that you're going the way of um Jack Coe. He died at 38. So the guy's basically telling me I'm going to die. It's a charismatic pastor. Because you have no love for the brethren. I've met you one time. You have no access to me. And he tagged another preacher in it when he sent it to me, thinking that that older preacher was going to like side with him. And that preacher laid into him. And that guy just retired. He's done. You should be careful. Guy called my uncle Ted one time, another pastor, and rebuked him. Said, You're a false prophet, all this stuff. And your ministry, the Lord showed me, your ministry is over. And my uncle said to him, Well. If you're right, then I'm done. But if you're wrong, then you're done. I'll put a chill up your spine hearing it third hand. That guy lost his home, lost his business, and was in the paper for how much money he owed people. Lost his church, lost his church, lost his home, and lost his business. In about three years. You should be careful who who you touch. Because it doesn't lend to longevity in the ministry. So I don't know how we can set it up. We don't have the phone thing available, right? Really? And then we can do com let's do comments. That'll be easier. Where can we do comments?

unknown 1:29:09

If you wanna, if they want to do it in the YouTube comments, I can do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:12

And you can extract them from there? Yeah. Alright. I'm sure you have questions about longevity and life and ministry in this with when to run, when to hide, when to fight. I'm in Ripley, West Virginia right now. Actually, I'm in Charleston, West Virginia right now. I'm gonna be in Ripley, West Virginia tonight, Thursday and Friday. They've been great meetings, 7 p.m. I would love to have you. Victory Church. I really like this pastor and his wife. I stayed at the church talking to him. Of course, I preached a long time, so it's not as long as it sounds, but I talked to him until about 12:40. His wife would be a great wife for other pastors' wives to learn from. She stayed and talked. I actually was the one that initiated leaving. A lot of pastors' wives, they just like her in our. They've got five daughters. None of them are older than high school age. You know, it's the school night. Honey, I'm gonna get going. Why can't you hang out? Why can't you be in revival meetings? Why are you, you know, her family's our first ministry. You want to minister to your family? Have them in church. What are you doing at home, ministering to them, playing frickin' Miss Rachel and getting their zip-up jammies on? I'm sure that they're gonna be world changers. Get them in church. That's what she did. She was cool. All the daughters are sitting there. You should make your family comfortable in the house of God, and you should be comfortable in the house of God. If you have a picture, I would love to see it. Or a question, I'm sorry. I'd love to have it in the comments. We'll post it on the screen and I'll start answering them. This weekend is gonna be a family blessing service in Pittsburgh. Pastor Michael is preaching in Texas, correct? Yep, making his debut uh on Sunday morning, Sunday at 9 a.m. He's gonna do great. California, Pastor Kofi's tearing it up, touching 400 already. And then Arizona, Pastor TJ just started, and they're doing great. We got a youth pastor there as well, and an associate. Um, what else is coming up? Radcliffe, Kentucky, May 18th to the 22nd, Abundant Life Church with my good friend Pastor Terry Linscott. And we're adding ministers, pastors and leaders meetings Thursday and Friday at 10 a.m. Would love to have you there. That's a good point, Elmer, on the app. Peter and Paul were of equal standing, not correcting up. Correcting up is a bad move. Toronto um end of the month is gonna be off the hook. Would love to have you there. Address is still TBD, but we'll have a place shortly. Questions? Well, that's nice, Gina. Arizona is my favorite thing. Pastor TJ is perfect for an RTC church, and I'm so happy for Pastor Alex. That's great. No questions yet?

unknown 1:32:53

I have a couple but I have formatted them.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:54

Alright, we're gonna get the questions up on the screen. Give me the first one while you format it. And then I'll give you time for the other ones. Just just yell it out to me.

unknown 1:33:04

Is there a path back for those who have gone down the attack ministries mode?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:08

Good question. Is there a path back for those that went down the attack ministries mode? You know, think of this with me. Would David have been wrong to kill Saul? Like naturally? No. The guy's out to kill him. It's him or you. So, you know, you can be, everything you're saying's right and you're wrong. Did God say that Moses and the children of Israel were not to marry outside of themselves? Yes. Think of this now. But when Moses married that Ethiopian, which God condemned, when when Aaron and Miriam spoke against it, they got leprosy. And everything they were saying was right. Let me tell you another thing. Peter, I want you to write this down. Paul confronted Peter once. He didn't sub-tweet him for the remaining 20 years of his ministry. He nailed it, they had it out and settled it. Write this down. Don't hyper obsess about anything except the Great Commission. Don't hyperobsess about anything except the Great Commission. You can hyper obsess about good things, but you're making a small, you know, there's guys that lost their ministries trying to prove that Britain was the 12th tribe of Israel, the last tribe of Israel. You know, even if you're right. You know, it's like that thing I did about UFOs and talked about it. Yeah, that everything I said's right. If I now make that the focus of my ministry, extraterrestrials and the role of aliens in end-time Bible prophecy, my ministry is not going to have the same impact it would as if I stuck to the main thing. You should ask yourself, you know, if you don't have a job and you're reading a ton about Israel or um uh Charlie Kirk's murder, or you you you you just are like, or whatever. And it can even be a good thing, health, but you're just hyper-obsessed. And I'll give you an example. We've had people stop partnering with us because they saw me drinking a Red Bull on camera. That's bad. I could never follow somebody that would put that poison in their body. All right, out you go. Because obviously I'm gonna be doing something at some point. You're not if you can get that easily offended. We've had people not partner because I had a Starbucks cup. Did you know that that woman in the Starbucks thing is an ancient idol that's demonic? Okay. So then what? So it's Dunkin' Donuts anointed. I live in the earth. I have to partake of things, you know. Since none of you Christians will start any companies, where am I gonna eat? What airline am I gonna fly on? None of you people own anything. Because that's the prosperity gospel. Obviously, you're not gonna own an airline if you if you're against one jet. So if you if you hyper obsess about people's faults, you're always gonna find something to be upset about. The question is if somebody went down the wrong road of attacking ministries, is there a path back? Yes, I would repent to the Lord and I would stop.

SPEAKER_04 1:36:56

Next.

unknown 1:36:58

What should a congregant do if they notice what should a congregant do if they notice one or more people trying to cause division with the congregation together?

SPEAKER_01 1:37:08

What should a congregant do if they notice um another congregant trying to stir other people up against their pastor? I don't think um, I don't think you would be wrong to to stand up for your pastor. You know, I was in that situation when I was 19. I said an older guy, he was probably my age, but I was 19, and he came up to me with his wife, and he goes, We really enjoyed your preaching this morning. We actually prefer uh when you preach more than the pastor. And I said, What a stupid thing to say. I said, Don't ever say anything like that to me, that dumb again. He's a much better preacher than me and a much better man. You know, his name is Dr. Samuel Bamar, he's like 70 years old. He built the church. I was a 19-year-old. You're an idiot. Maybe they didn't mean it that way. Then they should have thought before they said it, because I took it that way. Even little things like that are stirring division. If I didn't have a good father in the ministry, that's the kind of thing that makes a young pastor, those people will convey them. If you ever started a church, we'd be we'd get behind you. And then you start getting out of the will of God. The devil can get you out of the will of God by discouragement, but he can do it just as easily by the wrong people puffing your pride up and stuff. I would um, you know, the Bible talks about, see, I never did that. And I have left churches. I left that one in Maine. I didn't message anybody, I never told my side of the story. People lied about me at different churches. I have ministers now lie about me. I don't defend myself. I'm it's never good. I want you to write this down. It's never good to get involved in the takedown of a ministry. Let the police do it. I'm not saying if somebody did sexual sin, call the police immediately and then let them do it. But I even then, I want to make it my mission and then be like running the family into the ground and stuff. I'd get the whoever did a crime should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But you you make a mistake when you make it your mission to see to it that somebody's destroyed. There's a difference between seeing something wrong and you know, Paul confronted Peter when he saw him. He doesn't then spend the rest of his letters. Let me tell you some things about Peter. I know, I know a lot of you like him, and he's the pastor of the church in Jerusalem, but let me tell you where he's wrong. He confronted him. He actually doesn't even really say what he confronted him about, other than the Judaizer stuff, and then he let it alone. See, you got to be careful how you say this because there's been so many leaders that have done perverse things. You're not wrong to, you know, if there's sexual sin going on or theft of money, that, you know, you don't take up for that. Well, that's the pastor. Again, I also want to get involved in making sure, you know, it's like Robert Morris, right? All that comes out. He went to prison, he's out of prison now. Now, if you continue to, I don't feel enough's happened. Okay, now you're getting on like dangerous ground because why are you taking it into your hands to take somebody to take somebody down or see them further punished? What's your hyperobsession? You're not a victim of it. So why are you now devoting your life to seeing somebody else go down? That's a problem. So that's a good but but I mean if you when you go to church, if there's people trying to stir up problems against your pastor, and you know, over over, I'm sure they have a reason, something they don't like, you can disagree with someone about something that's not a sin or something to take somebody down on. Because people get hyper-obsessed about that stuff. You know, there's there's people, I don't have Camila in public school, but if I did, there'd be people that left the church. I don't believe any, how can any pastor send their child to learn at a place that's basically run by demons? So you're gonna you're gonna hyper-obsess about things that have nothing to do with you. They're not your business, how somebody runs their family. That one um, that one family I was talking about that wouldn't stay off the Facebook message board and lost their church. They kept to their own overseer. You know, your granddaughters are posting pictures of themselves in in bathing suits that we feel are inappropriate. And they were inappropriate because I know the minister, and I had to unfollow his grandkids because you know, I can't be going on Instagram, and the first thing loads is a bikini picture. Then be like, that's a pastor that I know's granddaughter. So I don't know, it wasn't judging, but I can't follow him. It's not her business to tell that grandfather how to run his family. I want you to write this down in all caps. Mind your own business. I don't feel you should marry her. Who asked you? I think you're making a mistake moving there. No one asked. I think you're way too much, not interested in what you have to say. You've seen me write to a ton of people. I already have a mom. Thanks. If you hyper obsess about people's faults, you're gonna find plenty and you're gonna end up in a house by yourself, and you're probably gonna end up judged for eventually talking to somebody that God loves. A lot. You know, there was a pastor who was not a good guy, in my estimation. I was preaching for him, and he did something that really ticked me off, and he was wrong, and I felt the Lord speak to me. That guy crossed a bridge with me in a good way back years ago. He took a stand and made a sacrifice that I asked him to do. I'll deal with him about those things, but don't touch him. If my daughter, listen to this now. If my daughter is misbehaving at the grocery store and another guy comes over and slaps her on the butt, says, I paddled you for, he's now going to get paddled in the face with fists. Even if what my daughter was doing wrong. Don't touch somebody else's children. And you need to remember, I believe it's one of the reasons we've had great church growth. These are not my congregants or my people. They're God's people, and they should be loved and revered as God's people. Not abused. Good to see you, Chuck Ondo, on YouTube. Love you, man. What should a congregate do? Oh, there it is. If they notice one or more people trying to cause division with the congregation, and then write this down. Wolves like packs. Wolves like packs. So somebody gets mad, they start trying to get other people. See if they can get anybody else also upset so they can form a group and eventually split the church. That's that's the MO. That's had been for two thousand years. Next question. If you know one of your volunteers is in habitual sin, do you tell them to sit down? Um, you know, the sin matters there. He lies or he rapes. These two big big different things. So I would need, I would need to know. But yeah, I mean, you need to have a a conduct standard for people that work at the church or that are in any kind of leadership of the church. Also, it matters what they're volunteering to do. Youth pastor, or they really enjoy um doing the groundskeeping at the church. They bring their, you know, I'll have more patience with the guy that mows the church's lawn that hasn't fully surrendered in the area of alcohol yet than I would someone that volunteers as the youth pastor who like who's a bit of a boozy susie. So there's variables there. Next. Please explain the blessing and not cursing your enemy in regards to when it's called for you to curse. Umro said it should never be used personally, meaning for a personal offense. I'm tired of this person writing this. I cursed them. Not that. Why did Paul curse the sorcerer? The Bible says the sorcerer was interfering and um keeping the governor from believing the word of God. You know, uh when Paul mentions it, it's guys that are trying to destroy a church. So it should be for God's kingdom advancement, those type of things, not personal, you know, you won't listen to me. I curse you in Jesus' name. You know, you just sound nuts. And I also wouldn't do much publicly. And also, if you're anointed enough, people are just cursed going against you without you saying anything much. There was a guy that lied about our ministry that was in the ministry publicly. He did it on, I won't say the dates. I'll make up different dates. He did it on uh June 23rd and died December 23rd. Six months to the day. So I would just, I would just read the Bible and get a good sense of when Paul used it. Again, you don't want to hyperfocus on a group of scriptures. Paul cursed. Paul called out Hameas and Philip. Okay, yeah, he did. And he confronted Peter, but it wasn't his ministry. You know why I can talk about things and it has a different feel than if like other people online talk about things and just post about a ministry or about what's going on? Because I'm preaching every night. I'm not an online commenter, though I make comments online. I'm preaching every night at 7 o'clock and Sundays during the day and a lot of Saturdays. So keep your thrust what the thing is that God called you to do, not commenting on what other people are doing. Next. Should the congregant bring this up to pastoral staff to handle, or only say something to the divisioner privately? Um the Bible says if you have an issue with someone, you should go to them personally. And then if they won't hear you, then that would be the time. Because I mean you don't want to just tattle on somebody say, hey, do you think it's like do you think it's like Christian behavior to trash our pastor to other congregants? You feel like that's biblical? And then if they're like, no, you're right. That's that was bad. But then, you know, then if they won't, the Bible says if they won't hear you, well, he he did this. And I know she's that then they got a bad spirit, and it probably would be good, not in like a tattling way, but just alert them. Hey, listen, I know this family goes to the church, they're like, they're causing problems. Actively. Next. About giving, above tithing. When one owes personal debt to family and friends, asking for a friend. I wish people would ask more full questions. I mean, that's not even like a complete sentence. About giving above tithing, when one owes personal debt to family friends, um, I would, okay, for what I can piece together from that, should should you give offerings when you owe money to family and friends? I would do both. You need to pay those people off, but you don't have to pick one or the other. I mean, you don't want to tell people, I'm sorry that I'm not I've not paid you any of the money I said, but I I'm giving to the Lord. You know, make people hate your faith and hate you. But then you can, I also want to tell the Lord, I'm not sowing any seed. I mean, that's I don't think God's up in heaven personally like interest uh invested in whether you sow seed or not. It's for you. As soon as you cross the bridge, I'm not doing this for the church. This is what produces. How do you go to a church and have only a small offering come in, but but then when you get the financial report, almost $900,000 came in. Because I'm a sower. So if it doesn't come in here, it's coming, it's coming in somewhere. But the windows of heaven are open over my life. Um I would do both. I had a conversation with a young lady who um was asking me money questions on Instagram, and she said, I can't do all this right now because I'm I'm getting out of debt. I said, I would slow down. She said, I have a plan to be out of debt in a year and a half. I was like, slow it down. It's good to have cash flow. You don't have to be out of debt in a year and a half. Do it in five years. And maybe the Lord will help you do both. Where you can, you can't, but I I would not, because I'm getting out of debt and pay, I can't go out to eat, I can't go on vacation with my family. I would I would structure it where I could still live and I was chunking the debt out and then not get into debt again. That's what I would do. Next. My daughter stutters, but she goes to a uh dead church. I've been going to RTC by myself. Can she receive healing if she attends a Presbyterian church with her dad? Anything can happen, but probably not, because you're not gonna have things manifest where they're preaching against those things or not preaching at all. You know, God confirms his word. The word is the care, the main carrier of God's power. So, you know, any, I'm not, and I'm not speaking against the church or trying to get you to come to RTC, but whatever you desire in life, you need to be going to a church that could that doesn't just believe in those things on paper. They contend for that. They preach it, they they push for it. You know, and again, there's more than just Sunday service. So, you know, I the the dad going to the Presbyterian church, great. You know, is he will he not let the daughter come to we have a miracle service on Friday once a month for that reason? I can't see a dad saying, you know, no, I don't want any prayer being given for my daughter. And then maybe, you know, if he doesn't like me, find a healing preacher he likes and take her there. I can't see a father just being opposed to any prayer for his daughter by anybody. Next. How do you balance between not being a doormat and being too hard? As a pastor, I've been told I'm too hard, 40 years in ministry, I have a hard time tolerating stupidity. You have to tolerate stupidity. There's a lot of stupid people, and that's what the Bible means when it says make allowance for each other's fault. If you cannot jump down people's throat over mistakes. I mean, if you pastor long enough, and I guess if you've been doing 40 years in the ministry, then you already know this. You're gonna have like a couple at your church that you like and that's a good couple that knows better. Um have a domestic violence episode where the sheriffs get called, get a DUI, get fired for stealing from their job. So they're already down. It's not gonna do any good with it. You know better. How could you do that? You you know, you you have to love and help people. You know, there was a pastor when I was starting off preaching that um he was very hard on sin and stuff. And I'm all for being hard on sin, but he was also hard on the people that committed sin. And he, you know, anybody that got divorced and remarried, they can't be in the ministry anymore. Well, then his daughter, when she was about 30, got divorced and remarried. You know, I've been thinking, you know, I've been re-examining my beliefs on that. Yeah, because now it's your daughter. So what if you just treated everybody like they're your family? How would I react to this woman if she was Camila? How would I react to this man if he was Tiff Shuttlesworth, my dad that I love? You know, why have a different set of rules for people you're close to and then screw everybody that I, you know, I should know better. I want to do that. As much as possible. As a pastor, I would love the sheep. Then you can't love wolves and you can't pray wolves in the sheep. So you have to discern that. Next. When you got thrown out of a big church over false accusations, oh, this is you. When you get got thrown out of a if if you could write your questions and like like I'm not picking up a piece of a conversation two other people are having. When you got thrown out of a big church over false accusations, how to get trust back in a church? By knowing the difference between A and the. That's a church. It's not the church. So just go to another church and stop being hurt. Who's your trust in? The head of the church is Jesus. That's why I saw somebody in the comments, Jonathan, are you going to be in Pittsburgh on Sunday? Why not just go? Who have I ever had preach in that pulpit that whatever you're hoping to get in that service by me ministering wouldn't happen with them ministering? I don't get it. I don't get the the the individualization of, you know, how do I get church, this church threw me out? How can I get trust back in the church? I'll tell you another thing. I would examine why you got kicked out. Churches are not, unless it's an independent fundamental Baptist church, which they are quick to throw people out, churches very rarely kick anybody out. Have we kicked anybody out of revival today, Pittsburgh?

unknown 1:57:48

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:50

I don't think we have. And I and I'm for it, and I don't. You know? I heard Matthew Eschermiloa, who had the largest church in Western Europe, said he threw one person out in his entire pastoral ministry. Because this guy told him, said that the Lord spoke to me that I'm gonna I'm to marry this woman, and she was married. And they they they had to mean, you know, quit talking to this lady. She doesn't want to talk to you. And he won't stop. So they they they sent him, they sent him, you want to listen. One person. Um so if a church has kicked you out, don't always see yourself as the victim. What was their reason? And we have four campuses. I know we have dismissed at other campuses. You know, and then the people post the scripture about um the like what Paul wrote about how the world doesn't see the value in us. No, I could tell you why you got booted. Because you're a problem. And I'm telling you, there's somebody that has been asked not to come back to a church as a congregant and as a minister. And you know, you examine, was I wrong? I talked to older ministers, you know, does that I wasn't wrong. But what did you do that was so much that the church made the decision, we don't want you there anymore? There was something that happened. And I promise you, likely the first the first move they made wasn't to kick you out. It was, please stop doing this. This is getting annoying, and you wouldn't listen. I'd like to know the other side of the story. Um, this lady said, I was kicked out for not wearing a mask in Canada. That's fine. They're the problem, not you. So that's that's a good reason. But I mean, you know, if you got kicked out and you feel you're the victim and you don't have trust in church anymore, that just shows what the what your problem is. There's something wrong with you that you should have the Lord make right. I would be in a church the next Sunday. What about me getting kicked out of that church in South Carolina and lied about on the platform? Did I take six months off from preaching? How is an evangelist can I ever get trust back in working with pastors again? No, get back on the horse and do your thing. Quit being a freaking baby. That's the answer. Next. From your experience, what's the number one thing that destroys someone's potential authority and honor if they're looking to get into leadership? From your experience, what's the number one thing that destroys someone's potential authority and honor if they're looking to get into leadership? Um, not being credible or trustworthy, that would destroy your authority and honor. If you if your credit credibility is bred by you doing what you say when you say you're gonna do it. If I said I'm gonna start Revival Today Church Pittsburgh, and we did, then we had troubles, we shut it down after five months, and then I go to start a church in Texas, no one's moving there. Like, you know, he just said he was gonna start on Pittsburgh, and then I guess now Texas. The more you don't follow through on what you say you're gonna do, the less the more your authority and honor gets destroyed. Evangeline samples. Will you ever come to Morgantown, West Virginia? I thought you said you were coming here. That's a good point. Jesse said being a liar destroys honor. That's a it sure does. Next question. I'll make this the last one. As a pastor, how would you deal with someone that was in leadership, that left the church offended, and are now trying to get people to leave, meeting with them privately? I've had that happen. In at least two of our campuses. I'd leave it alone. Anybody that wants to follow a moron out, go enjoy yourselves. And if you don't address it, I'll tell you what will happen. They'll you know, Bishop Dagg said something. He said, uh when you're anointed, you make everything look easy. So then people just think it's easy. You know how many worship leaders have like left a major ministry and started their own church? I could do what he's doing. Yeah, I'm basically the one breaking the service through it every day. He just shows up and gives his message. I talk to more people than he does. I could do this, and they go out and do it, and they can't do it. I could I could name people, a lot of them. They're just they're not doing anything anymore. Um we, you know, one of our campuses, we had people leave and take people with them. I don't even know if they meet every Sunday anymore. They can't even afford the hotel ballroom littlest one. They you make it look easy when you're anointed, but and it is easy when you're anointed, but when you're not, you're gonna find out that you're not anointed to do what you're trying to do. Looks super easy to take Goliath out when you're anointed to do it. If any of those other guys that are full of fear went out, they'd have got clobbered quickly. Good, Jason. Look forward to seeing you. Let's see the question. I want to address it. What's it gonna do other than give more people um then more publicity in what they're trying to start? They're not gonna, they don't, people don't have the ability to generate any interest. You know, I think the mistake you can make is getting worried about disgruntled people and whether they're gonna be able to. And if you start making an issue, it becomes a bigger issue. When you just keep preaching and keep moving, I mean, you have to wonder, like at Joel Osteen's church, if there's 18,000 people there, how many how much of this is going on at that church with people with their side ministries and paraministries? For me personally, I don't say anything. But if somebody schedules something on Sunday or in Arizona, they do something, they have their ministry that they started, and it's on it's Saturday at 10 a.m., same as the church, I don't trust them anymore. You can't be a part of a church and schedule a competing event with the Sunday service and then say you're submitted to that church. No permission, just do it. And I will say this too, and I I I haven't seen anybody online today that I that fits this bill. But I hope there are people on that fit this bill. You should ask yourself this question, right in the comments. Have I just decided that I'm in the ministry? If you have, you are going to have a hard, unsuccessful time. You cannot enter the ministry because at 40 or 45, you just decided I'm gonna go into the ministry. I don't have a job or I had a job and I got tired of running the business, and I just, I really like, I really feel the minute. Great. Have you gone to Bible college? Who blessed you? Who ordained you? Where do you come from? Whose son are you? You cannot just, you can, you can just go into the ministry. Thousands of people do it, and you're gonna struggle the rest of your life. Because you're not called into the ministry, you just decided to be in the ministry. I want to ask you a question. Did you did your pastor commission you into the ministry? Or did you tell your pastor, I'm going into the ministry? Happy birthday, Kim Gibb. If that's the Kim Gibb from Ontario, you're doing a great job in your church there in Sarnia, if that's the same one. I wish, I wish people, but you know, the same, here's what happens: the same pride people have that makes them feel like they can launch into the ministry, they can't receive any direction in the ministry, you know. We had a guy, I won't, this is a while back, and I'm saying all this, our churches are at their highest attendance they've ever had. So there's no bitter, no one has split our church. You know, for somebody to split your church, like if Kofi wanted to go rogue, he could split the church. There's people that love him there. It takes a high-level person to split a church, not some cranky housewife whose husband has enough money to rent her a place to go preach. Ronald said, is it wise to work part-time to support your family while leading a church? If the church hasn't grown and you still need a job, does that mean you lacked faith by not going all in? I would I you should provide for your family and not feel bad about it. And while you do it, don't make it a permanent thing. Do it while you're still believing for the church to grow and figure out what the problem is. You know, really, and I'm trying to get people to go into the ministry, not go out of the ministry. At the same time, just because you paid for professional photos to be taken of you and your wife and got a website and are available for bookings, you're not a minister. You're a guy with a ministry website looking for bookings. And the reason nothing's working is you're not a minister. You should go back to work. Where did you come from in the ministry? That's why we have the 18 to 35 uh limit at Revival Today Bible Institute. Because it's not that you can't go into the ministry when you're 40 or 45 or 50, but I wanted to cut down on the amount of people that because they just don't feel like working a job anymore. It's amazing. In four years of pastoring, how many people would not work a job and then felt called in the ministry? You don't feel called in the ministry, you feel called to run from working a job. And the fruit of your ministry shows it. How many years have to go by with no preaching opportunities? And you started a church and it's got 14 people before you realize maybe God's not in this. But you won't listen. You'll you'll go on scriptures about endurance and standing strong, and then you'll get a bent. I watch it happen. You know, we've had ministries that have left our church that we supported monthly, that then when things aren't working out, this is when people go anti-prosperity. Rather than realize you're not prospering because you're not in the will of God, you just churches are actually meant to meet in homes. And I they were never meant to be about buildings. And yeah, you're you're you're projecting. You don't have any of those things. So rather than figure out why is my my my endeavor not growing, I'll just attack people whose endeavors are growing. That's awesome. I mean, why can't you just work and serve at a church and let things happen naturally? I never tried to be an evangelist. I am an evangelist. And people started inviting me for weeks of meetings when I was 19 in Bible school. For God knows what reason. Decent church, too. And then again and again, it the church. Does anything look like I'm trying to make anything happen? Because I'm not. The Lord's doing it. So if you say the Lord told you and nothing's happening, re-examine. Have some humility. That's why pride comes before destruction. Because when you're proud, you won't self-examine and you won't allow other people to cross-examine. You know? We had a guy, I'll just make up a different job. Um, because I don't, I'm not looking to like nobody would know who he is anyway. Him and another family from our church early on, like the first year. You know, uh, I'll say he was uh he was a hotel manager and this other family. You know, we we feel called to start a church. You know, it's like far enough from us. It wouldn't have mattered if you started across the street, nobody was coming. And uh that family followed him out that was disgruntled. And then, you know, he I haven't seen him in years, but originally he was on our ministerial mentorship call. Jonathan, what advice would you have for me? You know, we're just really having trouble breaking the 20 person mark, and we don't want to have anybody that volunteers. Me and my wife are doing everything. And yeah, you're not called. You never even asked me. Why are you asking me for advice of how to make the ministry work when you never even asked me about going into the ministry? Who told you to go into the ministry? I know I didn't, and I don't think God did. When the Lord tells you to do something, there's fruit. Cherry pick all the scriptures you want about Paul in prison and people not receiving Jesus' ministry in Capernaum or wherever. There's also scriptures about great multitudes and lots of people coming to be saved, and daily they were added to the church. You can't fake fruit. You can fake your hyper-spiritual calling. And yeah, the Lord, we've just been seeing so many signs, and we just see there's such a need. Yeah, well, I don't believe you. Even Wigglesworth that went into the meet the ministry late in his 40s, he was a plumber full-time, had his own business, and people kept wanting him to come preach, and it'd pack out because nobody knew about tongues or healing. And then finally, there were so many invitations. I hope people are listening to this. There were so many invitations that he could not keep his plumbing business going and kind of like reluctantly went into full-time ministry. It's the opposite now. People have no business, no income, and then feel to go into the ministry, and there's no opportunities. How can you not see that that's a stupid decision you're making? You got a wife and kids, and the kids aren't going to want to go to church anymore because they had a dad that's a crappy minister that they had to suffer with no provision because he's out of the will of God. Because you can't submit to a pastor is the main reason why. Seven times out of ten, we feel called into the ministry is code for we don't want to submit to anybody anymore. And the and the the proof will show. We've had people that wanted to leave and were upset we didn't throw them a party. We don't throw people a party for quitting. Is the game over? We're throwing parties now? I wouldn't want to party if I was leaving. I'd be leaving prematurely. We haven't accomplished what God told us to, all that He told us to do at Revival Today Church. I'm in the middle for me, and Adala's 10 times more, it seems like now. I'm in the I'm in the second quarter of a game, and not even close to what I'm supposed to have accomplished. And I'm very thankful for everybody that teams up, and I'm not mad at anybody that leaves, but we're not celebrating people walking off the team uh before halftime. Hey, he's been with the team for 11 weeks. He's leaving now mid-game. We appreciate you, buddy. You're afraid to leave? I don't resent you. I wish you all the best. But we're not celebrating it. We barely celebrate accomplishment in our church, let alone quitting. It's a lot. You know, it's been a lot. We're at the church a lot. So we just need a break from church. Yeah. Take a long break. Nobody will notice. You can't build anything for God with people like that. And I'll tell you another thing. I don't believe people are worn out from ministry or church. You know, something else is going on. You get refreshed doing the work of the Lord, not worn out. And that's coming from somebody that tells everybody during 21 days of prayer and fasting, nobody's required to come. I don't care what you signed up for or what commitments you made. You're free to stay home the whole 21 days. You'll never hear a word from me. No one should do anything for the Lord that's not out of joint enthusiasm. But if your joint enthusi enthusiasm's waning, you should ask yourself some personal questions. If you've been doing everything God's called you to do for 10 years and haven't seen any growth, how do you know whether it's time to endure or to step step out on your own initiative? I would never step out on my own initiative. I would, I would ask myself, you know, when we've hit challenges at different campuses, I would, I was glad I could look back and say, like, I know the not only did the Lord speak to me to start this church in Texas, Clarita's mom out of nowhere, picked up what the building looked like. LA, you know, my my uncle called me and tell me that building's gonna reach out to you as a sign you're supposed to be there, 780 at launch. I'm glad if there's a challenge, I can root back to what I knew the Lord spoke to me. Can you do that? There should be some signs that you can like look back to. If the devil's trying to get you to doubt your calling at a city, you know, not even just your general calling, but like whether you're to be in a city. You couldn't, you could have the 15 most prominent ministers. Talk to me. Uh, I don't believe you're called in Pittsburgh. It wouldn't, when that guy that was a seasoned minister wrote me that thing that you're gonna die, uh pastoring in Pittsburgh, never bothered me. I know. See, and I'm not saying, I'm glad you're asking questions. So I'm not saying this to like like like uh rebuke or shame you. Can you picture me being on somebody's YouTube broadcast saying, how do I really know I'm called to start four churches or not? No. The fact that there's a hesitation makes me feel it's time and there's been no growth. I'd shut it down. And I'd go work. A lot of people could save a lot of frustration if they would work. You know, you got it in your head. That's America. And I'm sure it happens overseas too, and in other countries. But America was a country founded on we're not listening to you anymore. Um, we're gonna do our own thing. And that spirit is in American people for good and bad. They're pioneers, they start companies, they learn to refine oil and build oil, you know, everything, steel from iron ore. That's us. But we're also can't listen to anybody. Same way you kill the British for raising the price of tea. I'm not going to church. I don't like him, I don't like her, I'll be my own pastor, I'll start my own church. That's a problem. Yeah, I'd stop. If there's no fruit, something's majorly wrong. God's things grow. And you only get, by the time you get out of high school, you only get about five quality 10-year spirit uh periods to burn, maybe six. Ten years is a long time. And and time goes so fast. You know, it's one of the reasons I try to keep a quick pace. There's people that keep a much quicker pace than me. But I try to work hard in the ministry and make sure I'm preaching all the time and pushing, because it was like when our church hit 500 in Pittsburgh. It's like, man, we're at 500 in two years. Yeah, but pretty soon, if you don't keep pushing, you're gonna be at 500 in 15 years, and then it's not so cool anymore. If this is gonna stay a supernatural, trail-blazing thing, you know, if there's no fruit and continual fruit and continual multiplication, I'd I'd I'd go to war against it. Put Luke 8, 1 to 3 up on the screen. Soon afterward, Jesus began a tour of the nearby towns and villages, preaching and teaching the gospel of the kingdom of God. He took his twelve disciples with him, along with some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases. Among them were Mary Magdalene, from whom he had cast out seven demons. Joanna, the wife of Chusa, Herod's business manager, Susanna, and many others who were contributing from their own resources to support Jesus and his disciples. Leave that up. Jesus could get gold coins in fish's mouths. Jesus could have fish waiting for him at the end of the book of John without doing any fishing. Jesus could turn five loaves of bread and two fish into enough to feed 20,000 people. He did not need any of these women supporting him. So why did he allow it? And why did the Bible, by the Holy Ghost, make note of it? Because as 3 John shows you, partnership is holy. These women saw Jesus doing a tour preaching the gospel, and they said, we're gonna take from our resources and see that there doesn't have to be some supernatural miracle. We're gonna do it. And what you make happen for others, God makes happen for you, and when you give, you receive. You know, I'm meeting with people on Sunday to final up the Venezuela meeting, to go preach in Venezuela, which has not been a thing for a long time. How are we able to go to impoverished, torn-up places, gonna do Iran as soon as the IRGC collapses? Because this thing that God ordained, I want you to write it in the comments, partnership. It makes you different. You don't see with me what you see with other people $100 to come to the meeting. No, you know why? Because of you. Because there's people that like Joanna, like Susanna, and like Mary Magdalene, said, This ministry has impacted my life. I'm gonna do something to make sure it impacts other people's lives, including people that can't afford it. I was blown away last week. Very small offering from church, one of the best financial weeks we've had because of this principle. And why does everybody not cancel their partnership after 90 days or a year or a year and a half, or never cancels it, period? Because you start finding out. I think I'm doing something to help the gospel. But in doing that, Proverbs 11, 24 and 25, those that water others, those that cause God's thing to grow, God then waters them and causes their thing to grow. Let me see, King James. When you cause something to grow that's righteous, you're feeding into the revival that's happening. You're making sure foreign religion is not going to set up shop in my country. Then God says, I'll water you. See if I can find this. Was it John Wesley that said, I became rich unaware, or like I accidentally became rich? And what's the what's the full context?

SPEAKER_00 2:24:21

You're thinking of John Wesley. He didn't say he became rich exactly, but he often spoke about money in unexpected terms. The quote you're referencing is close to something he shared in his advice on finances. Wesley famously advocated for gain all you can, save all you can, give all you can. Over time, because he was diligent and frugal, he noted that wealth accumulated almost without him intending it.

SPEAKER_01 2:24:45

In fact, wealth accumulating without him intending it. He's just like I, you know, I was just following the Bible and I became wealthy without trying. This is what that does. You'll be amazed when God sees that you're a seed sower, that you care about the work of the Lord. You know, I'll tell you another thing that would probably be like I'd be one of like three ministers that would share something like this. Other than last night, I've flown home every night this week. I have preached on the road and been at home with my family all week. And that's you. There's no build of the church, there's no take care of half the fuel, because we have people watching right now. You not only care about the ministry, you care about me. And you care about Adallis, and you care about Camila, and I want to say thank you. And I want to say thank you for giving again. And that's why we we we we send you, whether it's a t-shirt or a book, it's to let you know it's noticed. I looked at the financial report, I saw who gave. I'm thankful. I don't look at who didn't give, I look at who gives. And I'm very, very thankful. You don't have to do anything, but you do, and I hope you are seeing a dramatic return, as God said there would be. And I pray that that return becomes even more dramatic. We had people give a hundred, two people give a hundred thousand or more last week. Justin Duplantis calls that chunk giving. You know, we're still building out that church. A little under 4 million to go. When you send a quarter million, half million, million, 100,000, starts knocking out major pieces of it. 50,000, 25, it's a blessing. So I'm gonna give you the opportunity to do that today, and I'm gonna pray for all the givers. Watch it on replay, watch it on TV. That you see that watering that comes from God. Life, I'm gonna pray that everybody that sows today, life doesn't feel uphill. Feels downhill. The wind's at your back, not in your face. Because God's watering you. The hand of the devour is cut off. RevivalToday.com, easiest way to give. Revivaltoday.com and you click give now. Pop that on the screen if you would. RevivalToday.com, you click give now. There's the individual ways to give, including Apple Pay, which is what I just learned how to do like six weeks ago. Pretty easy. Thank you for giving. I'm gonna pray that the grace that God's put on Adonis and I and our ministry comes on every person. There's a pastor that flew from Atlanta. He's a great man of God. First I've ever met him in person. He flew from Atlanta to go to Ripley, West Virginia, just to sew. He said, I'm believing for 500,000 for the for a building, a church building in another city that's come open. And I'm putting 5,000 in your hand to believe for a hundredfold return. That's that's that's a guy that understands sowing and reaping. I would like to say, you know, it seems like there's a lot of critics of the prosperity message now. And you know, now I'm getting grouped in with the other people that get criticized. How can you argue with what goes on? I guess you can, though. They do with Jesse Duplantis and stuff. You think I I manipulated this? Why don't you try? Why don't you talk to the lady that gave us the $5.3 million building and see if she feels manipulated? You think she's like a moron? She's not, and neither is her husband. And they knew exactly what they're doing and they don't regret it. You really gotta do some mental gymnastics to think everybody's getting tricked and getting tricked over and over again every month, and not seeing any blessing, and it's all fake. Why don't you talk to the people that do it? They don't want their money back. Thank you for generous giving today. Thank you, Jesse. I appreciate that. You start to manipulate for a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons you can fall into that is when you're trying to do more than what God's commissioned you to do. If God told you to start a church and you're trying to start four, now you gotta, now you gotta now you gotta work the people and manipulate and do whatever. But if you just do what the Lord assigns you, then God speaks to people to give, God blesses them, and it keeps multiplying. If you want to mail a large check, I'd appreciate it as we're building that church out. I'm gonna start tackling the other ones. Revival today, P.O. Box 7, Prosperity, Pennsylvania, 15329. Let's pray. Father, I thank you for everybody watching today, and particularly those that have sown. I pray that as your word said in Proverbs 11, 24 and 25, the wind would now be at their back. They would feel you watering them, increasing them, opening more doors. Thank you for debt being destroyed. Thank you for the windows of heaven open, pouring us out a blessing that's so great, we don't have room enough to take it all in. In Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:59

Thank you for sharing the Jonathan Shuttle's Worlds podcast. If you're interested in supporting our mission to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ to our generation, please visit revivaltoday.com and click on given to become one of our monthly playlists. Thank you, and if we hope to see you soon.