LaTonya Jackson, Ed.D. is a dynamic, forward-thinking people director with extensive experience in talent and workforce development, thought leadership, change management, instructional strategy, and facilitation. In this first episode, Dr. Jackson kicks off the season by recounting how the events of May 25th, 2020 ignited the fire she needed to finally step into her role as a DEIB professional. She walks us through her journey, defines key terms, and provides resources and recommendations on how we all can take a step forward towards being better DEIB champions.
LaTonya Jackson, Ed.D. is a dynamic, forward-thinking people director with extensive experience in talent and workforce development, thought leadership, change management, instructional strategy, and facilitation. In this first episode, Dr. Jackson kicks off the season by recounting how the events of May 25th, 2020 ignited the fire she needed to finally step into her role as a DEIB professional. She walks us through her journey, defines key terms, and provides resources and recommendations on how we all can take a step forward towards being better DEIB champions.
Mike Cole 0:00
Hello all! Are you ready to hear candid conversations with key industry leaders and experts about workplace culture? Do you want to learn more about what you can do to become an ally and an advocate? We'll explore this and much more. This is Peoplecast.
Welcome to season one, episode one of Peoplecast! Peoplecast is a production of Media Partners Corporation, providing best-in-class training content, technology, tools, and services. Media Partners will help your organization elevate workplace behaviors and culture.
Recent events have caused a global surge and diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging initiatives in corporations and individuals alike. The key leaders who are voices for these initiatives have varied backgrounds, and stories that shaped their approach and mindsets around conversations that need to be had, and roadblocks that we all may encounter on our individual DEIB journeys. On this episode of Peoplecast, we'll discuss those DEIB roadblocks, how we can overcome or navigate through them, and actions we can take to make progress. Our guest today is Dr. LaTonya Jackson. To name a few of her titles, she is an entrepreneur, author, public speaker, wife, and a mom. She holds a BS in Business Administration, a Master of Education in Higher Education Leadership, and a Doctorate of Education in Workforce Development Education. Welcome, Dr. Jackson. Welcome to Peoplecast!
LaTonya Jackson 1:28
Thank you, Mike. I'm excited to be here.
Mike Cole 1:31
So let me ask you this. How do you want to be referred to on this episode? You want to be Dr. Jackson?
LaTonya Jackson 1:36
Just "LaTonya" is great for this type of work today.
Mike Cole 1:39
Okay, great. Alright, LaTonya, let's start. What is your role now? What do you do?
LaTonya Jackson 1:44
My current role is Vice President of Services for Media Partners Corporation, where we deliver FACTS. Facilitation, Assessments, Coaching, Training, and Support Services to our clients.
Mike Cole 1:55
What led you to that role? How did you get there? Just a 30-second history of how you got to where you're at?
LaTonya Jackson 2:03
Well, I was a client, actually, of Media Partners' at one point in time in my career, looking for D&I and workplace harassment training, and found the Media Partners website and their content. I loved it! From there that led to a relationship with the salesperson. And then when I transitioned away from the company I was working for, I let my salesperson know I was no longer their point-of-contact, and we maintained relationship and connection. And then an opportunity arose to become a Facilitator Consultant. And I took that role after their interview process, of course, and enjoyed it immensely. Love the work the team is doing in bringing their video content to life, and then getting to be a part of the Diversity Design Team. And that ultimately led to some conversations about bringing me on full-time. And that's how I got here.
Mike Cole 2:55
Cool. So I have another question for you. This might be a little off the cuff. So I recently saw an interview that you did—another podcast—and you pitched yourself as not really wanting to be a DEIB voice. Is that still the case, or have you changed your mind on that?
LaTonya Jackson 3:12
Well, the events of May 25, 2020 changed that for me. I did not. I had no desire to do DEI work. I didn't want to be pigeonholed and therefore did everything I could to stay away from it. After watching the video of George Floyd and seeing the social unrest that was birthed out of that—there had already been some social unrest—but this particular incident hit a little differently. I thought, what could I do? And so I partnered with a friend of mine, and we wrote a book. And that was my "reemergence," if you will. And I got licensed to teach some content in the diversity and inclusion space. And so here I am, I'm back in the game. And I've always sort of been part of this work, but this—this was a little bit different. And I decided that I could use my voice for good and hope to help people recognize and appreciate the differences and perspectives of others.
Mike Cole 4:10
The events that took place back on May 25. When you watch that video, how did it make you feel?
LaTonya Jackson 4:18
That's a really good question. I don't know that I had one emotion. I had anger; I had fear; I had disgust. Just, "Where's the humanity?" And that was sort of what was running through my mind. Along with, you know, if that was my son, or my husband, or—it was just disheartening. It was—I didn't know what to do. I cried, just broke down because I just thought, as a society, we lost. We've lost our ability to be humane to one another, to treat people with dignity and respect, no matter what the cause was. It just feels like we've lost that. And, you know, how can we get it back?
Mike Cole 5:03
How can we get it back?
LaTonya Jackson 5:04
Well, I think that—one, just treating others how you want to be treated, or at least how you think you want to be treated. But, more importantly, treating others how they wish to be treated. You did a great example of that, Mike. In this type of an environment, I'm perfectly fine being called latonya. But you asked me the question, and I gave you the answer. And you've honored that. And that's a small example. But there's a recent situation in North Carolina, I believe, where there was a town hall meeting—or just a meeting going on—and the community representative, she wanted to be referred to as "Doctor," and the individual interviewing or answering the question just refuse to call her "Doctor." And that just—it just is such a simple thing to do, to just respect and honor what a person is asking of you, and how they wish to be treated. And if I had said, "Doctor," you know, "Call me Dr. Jackson on this episode." I know that you would have. And so to humanize this space, there's a way to engage, and to interact, and have conversations that are difficult.
Mike Cole 6:13
So let me—I want to rewind just a little bit. I want to go back in the Wayback Machine. And let's talk about, in your upbringing, was there anything in your childhood or early education career that might have led you to those ideas, and those thoughts around how we can advance and how we can get better?
LaTonya Jackson 6:31
Yes, I'm a military child—I won't say brat. But that's typically how we refer to ourselves. And so I had the privilege of living in another country when I was younger. We lived in the Philippines, and my favorite class was the culture class. Learning about the Tagalog language, and going out into the community. And you recognize very quickly that you have to be patient, you may have to slow down long enough to understand one another. You may have to learn to present the information in a different and unique way. And so all of those experiences that we had. Recognizing where we live, but then seeing where others lived, and understanding the barriers, and what it takes to function in another country and to be able to build relationships. Along with that culture class. That's what shaped how I view DEI today.
Mike Cole 7:24
Great, thank you. That sounded like a really great experience. And it gave you a lot of positive insight into where you see DEIB going currently. But tell me about something that was a more difficult situation that you experienced?
LaTonya Jackson 7:38
Well, there's a couple that come to mind, Mike. There was one, when I was in high school, a young lady was offended or frustrated with me and the group of people—my sister, one of my dear friends—and she bought me a rice cake, and said—and it was a Christmas gift by the way. So it was delivered to the office, and you know, you get called down and you're kind of excited because, you know, somebody's giving you something, or somebody wants to see you or—and it was rice cakes for me. It was a relaxer for one of our friends. And that's probably one of the vivid moments that I can recall where someone opted to go out of their way to treat others badly. And to make it a public spectacle.
Being stopped in my car. When I was—I had a Ford Ltd. And I'm five-foot-nothing basically. And so being stopped by a police officer for no cause while I was driving to school, on the route that I drove every single day. And her response to the whole incident was, "He just couldn't see your head, you're just too short." And so they thought a kid was driving the car. And thankfully, my sister knows how to make a joke out of anything. So that worked well, and for me. But then, you know, right, those are high school moments. And then I get to college. And there's a paper that I have to write on a book about homosexuality, and I was born and raised (in) this devout Christian home. And here I was with these Christian values. And you know, I didn't agree. And I went to the Vice Chancellor at the university to say, "I don't feel that I should have to do this." And I learned a valuable lesson in that: that you're going to have to learn how to engage with those who don't share the same perspective. And then we had an incident with an email using the N-word by one of the professor's English professors, saying it was for educational purposes. We had a cross burning at our campus. And so there's been a lot of different events in my life that have led me down the path of diversity, equity, and inclusion. And what does that mean? And you know, belonging is really part of inclusion. And so, if I feel that I belong, I'm likely to feel that I am also included. Now, that doesn't always translate or correlate, if you will. And in many instances, I was always the "token black girl" in most of the environments that I'm referring to. And so why does that matter? Well, everything that's happening outside of the work environment influences what's happening on the inside of our work environment. And as a young individual, all of those things are impacting, you know, how I pursued my education or moved through the difficult moments. And in my case, I sort of became more of a activist of sorts, getting involved in the Big 12 Conference on black student government, and asking the difficult questions of political leaders who came to campus and made statements that, honestly I just didn't understand. So all of that. I have sort of always been involved in this work. Even if I didn't intend to be, I unintentionally was. So those are some of the moments, and they were all unique in helping to shape how I think about different environments. How I react, or how I respond to different situations. I choose love. It is a choice. And I can work with, and for, individuals who don't share the same core belief systems I do. But what I found is there's actually some level of commonality, and a place where we can help one another. And as long as I'm open to being human, and not pushing my views or perspectives on the other person, they're open to engage with me, and to teach, and to train. And I've been very privileged and fortunate in that. I wouldn't even have my doctorate if it wasn't for the person who was my leader at the time. She was a homosexual female. And she gave me the grace and space to do what was necessary so I could pursue my education, while working full time, and being a new mom. Not many leaders would have done that. And she knew my views and values. And she didn't—she never treated me differently as a result of that. And out of those moments and experiences, I came to say, I can do the same for others. And it's made a world of difference in how I engage with people.
Mike Cole 12:15
Okay, I want to unpack a few things that you said. That was definitely a good response. And there's a lot of things in there. You mentioned belonging being part of inclusion or inclusivity. So I guess—first thing—so belonging. Define that. Define belonging because—and the reason I asked that is I think companies in my opinion—and you've probably experienced this, too, with a lot of our clients that you've had—companies have a pretty good grasp on diversity, "equity-ish," and inclusion. I think diversity and inclusion came first. Equity came next, and now we add belonging. And so I think folks might have a good grasp on that. But is belonging a relatively new letter to add to DEI?
LaTonya Jackson 13:02
So, Mike, that's a great question. I've written an article for a company where we actually spend the time to define DEI, because a lot of what I found in the research out there is that we think we know what it is. And we—I believe we all think we're talking about the same thing. And what I'm finding is, we have so many different variations of even what—how we define diversity. And so I'm going to define inclusion and belonging, but I'm gonna start with how we define diversity, and move forward from there, right.
So diversity is "different." In one word, in its simplistic form. But we defined diversity as a mix of backgrounds, cultures, races, genders, economic and social situations, thinking styles, and other dimensions that promote growth in a group. Inclusion is the practice of inviting and valuing all team member perspectives, contributions, ideas, and opinions. It removes barriers that prevent employees from bringing their whole authentic selves to work. Whereas belonging: it's a sense when an individual feels that they are accepted, valued, and respected for who they are, especially in the workplace environment. And so that belonging term is fairly new. And you know, connection, belonging, feeling valued, feeling heard, accepted. Belonging, sort of, is the term I think that everyone has gravitated toward, to be all-encompassing of that acceptance, and value, and respect.
Mike Cole 14:34
Now, that definitely—that helps clear that up. I think we'll give some context for the listeners to help understand what you mean when you say "belonging." So we talked about just, kind of, your journey, and some of the experiences you had. And you mentioned that you've written a book with another colleague. I think that was Doc Courage, Dr. Angela Courage, that you wrote that book with. Five Blinders To Seeing Color. Tell me—if I had to flip the book over and read the back of the jacket, give me the back-of-the-jacket story for that book.
LaTonya Jackson 15:06
"The back-of-the-jacket story for the book." A lot of individuals out there today, they say things like, "I don't see color." And you think, "Well, color's everywhere." Just look outside. Look at, you know, the shirt you're wearing, or the shoes, or the table, or the bag that you have in front of you. Or even just looking at the camera that you might be looking into. There's color everywhere. And when someone is saying, "I don't see color," she and I—Doc Courage and I—recognized the intent behind the statement is to say, "I treat everyone the same." The problem with that is that it creates an unintentional impact. Because it's actually saying to the recipient, that "You don't see me." That I don't have any value, that the color of my skin is irrelevant and unimportant in the world in which we exist today. And so, the book, Five Blinders to Seeing Color, we identify, and walk readers through the five different areas. And then we take them through steps that would actually help to overcome, or combat, those different areas that we identify in the book.
Mike Cole 16:18
So I think what I heard you say is, as a white male, if I said, "I don't see color." Then that term is basically saying, "I'm okay with you as long as you're not black."
LaTonya Jackson 16:34
That's one way of putting it. *laughs*
Mike Cole 16:37
Okay, okay.
LaTonya Jackson 16:38
Yeah, I think that's one way of saying it. What I know of the people in my environments, who are white, would say is, "I think of you the same way. It's not that I don't see the black, it's just I think that you're just like me." And that's why I say it's an unintentional statement where it creates hurt, and harm. And it's because they're genuinely trying to say that, you know, "I love you. I value you. I treat you the same way. I have no odd against you. I'm not against black people, or Hispanic, or Latina, or Asian. I just see you like I see myself." But that's where there's a problem, because I'm different, and being different is okay. And to say that you don't see that difference kind of dismisses, and doesn't acknowledge, the fact that I have a culture and a heritage that's unique and different than yours is.
Mike Cole 17:35
Certainly. Taking someone for who they are and their authentic self, and learning more about them and the culture. When you say a phrase like, "I don't see color." That takes that off the table; that takes that away. I think you grew up in Mississippi, or you're from Mississippi, and I am as well. I think we grew up in—even though you know, it was the South—two very different South's. I have experiences, I think, that probably shaped a lot of my biases. And that's one reason—for the listeners that don't know, I am a white male, middle-aged, hosting a podcast on diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. And I'm here because I'm learning. I'm here because I need to know what I can do, and what I should have already been doing, to become an ally and an advocate. So these things that we're talking about today, I'm internalizing, and I'm taking them to heart just because it's important. It's important work, LaTonya, that you're doing, and that the people you work with are doing—that we're all doing—to learn to be allies and advocates, and to learn how to support marginalized and underrepresented groups. So I appreciate that. I do want to ask another question, though. I do want to ask—you've got books. You've written books. You've written a children's book. You've got Layoff Lab, you've got No Deadbeat Jobs, and some other things like that. And Five Blinders, of course. Aside from those books, which we know would be incredible reads, what are some other good book recommendations you might have?
LaTonya Jackson 19:05
Well, I'll—there's two that jump to the top of my mind. My Grandmother's Hands, and White Fragility. And I think those two books would be great for someone to read, and do a book club, or a book study. You know, don't read in isolation, right. Get together. And maybe at first you read it with a group of people that are like you. Affinity. And you have discussions, but that might not actually help you recognize your bias, because it may just be confirming what you already believe to be true. It may be helpful to get together with people who are also different, and have this discussion, and sit together, and ask one another questions, and engage in conversations around the subjects that are being presented in each of those books.
Mike Cole 19:52
Well, thank you, LaTonya. And for the listeners, we'll post those resources/links so you guys can access those as well.
LaTonya, I want to thank you. I want to thank you, first, for the work that you're doing and the megaphone that you've taken up as an ally/advocate/activist; the platform that you use to be able to get that message out; the people that you work with, and those that you bring into your circle. I do want to thank you for that. I also want to thank you for being a guest on the show, and for sharing with us what we can do—what we can all do to step forward and see color. So till next time, thank you folks for listening to Peoplecast!
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