Joshua T. Rich is a Diversity & Inclusion Strategist and Founder of LionHeart HR. In this episode, Josh delves into what it means to have a seat at the table. He walks through overcoming barriers to entry, the need to ask for permission, imposter syndrome, and much more! Even more noteworthy: he breaks our 3 for 3 streak on our Star Wars vs. Star Trek tally. Hope you enjoy!
More about Josh:
Substitute teacher, Security Officer, Senior Manager of Training and Development are just a few of many titles Joshua Rich has owned over the course of his 10-year corporate career. Prior to ranking high on the corporate ladder at the global security solutions agency G4S, Rich started off as a young college grad hopeful for his future but well aware that the journey to corporate ranking as a Black man in America would require mentoring, skills, and a smart game plan. A well-known and respected pioneer in the corporate world and within his personal community, Josh Rich has earned wisdom and know-how for developing programs and igniting movements that result in continued progression for career-driven and family-minded men. Through LionHeart Mentoring, Rich is on a mission to create a world where today’s companies, as well as companies of the future, are better equipped to meet global issues with better solutions.
“I believe there are so many variables that impact us becoming the best versions of ourselves. I was a C-student in high school and my SAT scores were not good. I questioned whether I had the acumen to succeed in college. However, I still applied and was accepted - ultimately, earning my Masters in Organizational Leadership with a concentration in Human Resources and graduated Summa Cum Laude. Today, I recognize more keenly that the common thread in our success is not only us, but just as importantly, an environment conducive to continued growth both in the ‘workplace’ and at home.” – Joshua Rich
Joshua T. Rich is a Diversity & Inclusion Strategist and Founder of LionHeart HR. In this episode, Josh delves into what it means to have a seat at the table. He walks through overcoming barriers to entry, the need to ask for permission, imposter syndrome, and much more! Even more noteworthy: he breaks our 3 for 3 streak on our Star Wars vs. Star Trek tally. Hope you enjoy!
More about Josh:
Substitute teacher, Security Officer, Senior Manager of Training and Development are just a few of many titles Joshua Rich has owned over the course of his 10-year corporate career. Prior to ranking high on the corporate ladder at the global security solutions agency G4S, Rich started off as a young college grad hopeful for his future but well aware that the journey to corporate ranking as a Black man in America would require mentoring, skills, and a smart game plan. A well-known and respected pioneer in the corporate world and within his personal community, Josh Rich has earned wisdom and know-how for developing programs and igniting movements that result in continued progression for career-driven and family-minded men. Through LionHeart Mentoring, Rich is on a mission to create a world where today’s companies, as well as companies of the future, are better equipped to meet global issues with better solutions.
“I believe there are so many variables that impact us becoming the best versions of ourselves. I was a C-student in high school and my SAT scores were not good. I questioned whether I had the acumen to succeed in college. However, I still applied and was accepted - ultimately, earning my Masters in Organizational Leadership with a concentration in Human Resources and graduated Summa Cum Laude. Today, I recognize more keenly that the common thread in our success is not only us, but just as importantly, an environment conducive to continued growth both in the ‘workplace’ and at home.” – Joshua Rich
Mike Cole 0:06
Hello everyone, and welcome to season one of Peoplecast! Peoplecast is a production of Media Partners Corporation, providing best-in-class training content, technology, tools, and services. Media Partners will help your organization elevate workplace behaviors, and culture. I'm your host, Mike Cole, and with me today is our co-host and producer, Jerrin Padre.
Jerrin Padre 0:26
Salutations!
Mike Cole 0:27
That was good! That was better than hello.
Jerrin Padre 0:29
Hello!
Mike Cole 0:30
*laughs*
Jerrin Padre 0:30
I know. I'm trying to switch it up. I know.
Mike Cole 0:29
That's been—the last two episodes have been, "Hello." So I like "salutations." I like that.
Jerrin Padre 0:35
I think I'm gonna have to do, like, a thesaurus lookup of alternatives to "hello."
Mike Cole 0:39
There you go. You can be culturally diverse and do "mahalo." You can do "nihao." I mean, you could do a lot of different things.
Jerrin Padre 0:47
"¿Cómo estás?"
Yeah.
Mike Cole 0:48
Yeah! There you go. So today, we are continuing our series on humanizing DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Bias). And I'm excited about this guest. And just kind of watching this interview move a little further forward on my calendar, until today. And it's like, "Yes! We get to do this today."
Jerrin Padre 1:03
Today's Josh!
Mike Cole 1:05
Today's Josh.
Jerrin Padre 1:06
(melodically) Today is Josh!
Mike Cole 1:08
Before, I prematurely introduce Josh, I do want to just kind of pose some questions. I think one question that I had, as we look into what we're going to talk about today, is: What does it mean to have a seat at the table? Which leads me to another question: Who determines the people that gets that seat? And also: Should I wait for an invitation? Or do I invite myself? And what tables do I want a seat at? And when I get a seat, what do I do? How do I use my voice? Those are just the immediate things that I think of when I think about our topic today.
Jerrin Padre 1:41
Mike, would you say you're someone—when you do have a seat at the table, or if you're invited to the table—are you someone that typically ask for permission to speak up? Or what's your relationship right now with the table?
Mike Cole 1:52
I think—I think it depends on the table that I'm at, and the circumstances surrounding why I'm there. I mean, here's the thing, you know. Again, I think we talked about this on the last episode: I am a middle-aged white guy, hosting a podcast on DEIB, and clearly recognizing that I have and have had privilege over the course of my life. And you have to wonder if I even have to ask for a seat at that table, because many times privilege grants me a seat at that table already.
Jerrin Padre 2:22
Mmm.
Mike Cole 2:22
And there are many other people who should have seats at that table, that haven't been either invited or included in that discussion. So, I think it's a bit different for me.
Jerrin Padre 2:32
Hmm.
Mike Cole 2:32
Anyway, that's how I feel. What about you?
Jerrin Padre 2:34
I feel like I always have to ask permission to sit at the table. I think that might just be because I'm young. So, I'm a 24-year-old, Filipina-American hailing from Southern California. I think my parents raised me to only speak when I'm being spoken to. Or if I was going to say something, I had to be super mindful of my audience, and just manage perceptions...
Mike Cole 2:56
Mhmm.
Jerrin Padre 2:56
... in that way. I think those two words, "managing perceptions," were huge in my upbringing. And so I think having that in the back of my mind, it's actually really hard for me now to speak up, or push back, or offer feedback when I do have those opportunities to be in the room, or have a seat at the table. Which is why I'm so glad you're here, Josh! Because I personally would love some help on how to carry myself when those opportunities do arise.
Mike Cole 2:57
Yep, same here.
So our guest today is Joshua Rich. Joshua is D&I (Diversity and Inclusion) strategist. He's a speaker, trainer, a career mentor. He's the owner of Lionheart HR. He also hosts his own podcast titled Champions Corner, and he teaches a masterclass on having a seat at the table. Who better to tell us about this, and talk to us about this than the guy who teaches the masterclass? So, welcome Josh. Joshua. How do you want to be referred to on this episode?
Josh Rich 3:48
Josh. And, let me just say, Mike, Jerrin, thank you so much for this opportunity to speak with you all. So glad to be here. And I really love what it is that you all are doing with this Peoplecast podcast.
Mike Cole 4:01
No, thank you for being here. Definitely.
Okay, so, we do this with all of our guests. And we're gonna play a little game. If you're up for that.
Josh Rich 4:09
I'm up for it! Let's go!
Mike Cole 4:10
Okay, I'm going to ask some questions. Most questions require a one word answer, so you don't have to think too much.
Josh Rich 4:17
Okay.
Mike Cole 4:17
Although, you're going to want to. Are you ready?
Josh Rich 4:20
Ready!
Mike Cole 4:20
Here we go. First question: Star Wars or Star Trek?
Josh Rich 4:23
Star Wars.
Jerrin Padre 4:25
Yes!
Mike Cole 4:25
Okay! Alright.
Jerrin Padre 4:26
Finally!
Mike Cole 4:27
Finally! Josh. We've gone three—what four episodes?
Jerrin Padre 4:31
Four episodes.
Mike Cole 4:31
And your predecessors have all selected Star Trek
Jerrin Padre 4:35
The audacity!
Mike Cole 4:36
Yes!
Josh Rich 4:36
*laughs*
Mike Cole 4:36
You were the first one to side with us, as hosts, on knowing that Star Wars is the best. So thank you for that.
Josh Rich 4:45
Alright!
Mike Cole 4:46
Okay, next question: texting or talking?
Josh Rich 4:50
Talking.
Mike Cole 4:51
Okay. So you're a pick-up-the-phone-and-call-'em guy.
Jerrin Padre 4:54
I see that.
Mike Cole 4:55
Okay. Dark chocolate or milk chocolate?
Josh Rich 4:57
I'm gonna go with the healthier of the two and say dark chocolate.
Mike Cole 5:00
There you go. There you go. I'm a 70% (cacao) guy. Jerrin, what about you? Are you dark chocolate or milk chocolate?
Jerrin Padre 5:06
I'm full dark chocolate. Yeah.
Mike Cole 5:07
Nice.
Jerrin Padre 5:08
80%. 80%/90%.
Mike Cole 5:09
That's, like, borderline—you know, baking chocolate is what that is.
Jerrin Padre 5:13
Yeah.
Josh Rich 5:13
Okay!
Mike Cole 5:14
Yeah. All right, Josh. Favorite day of the week?
Josh Rich 5:17
Friday.
Mike Cole 5:18
Okay, I would—I would agree with that. Yes. The last song you sang in the car at a stoplight?
Josh Rich 5:24
Goodness. I know it was the Isley Brothers.
Mike Cole 5:27
Hmm!
Jerrin Padre 5:27
Mmm.
Josh Rich 5:27
Now I'm trying to remember, what was the song?
Mike Cole 5:30
I was gonna say, "Bonus points for singing it," but, you know, if you don't remember it, then you could do any Isley Brothers song. That's fine.
Josh Rich 5:37
*laughs*
Mike Cole 5:37
It's up to you.
Josh Rich 5:38
No, no. Hold on, Mike. Actually, in middle school, I got Best Singer for middle school superlatives. Best Male Singer, I should say. Yeah.
Mike Cole 5:48
Ah! So now I think we're missing out on something, by you not singing, but, you know.
Josh Rich 5:53
Aw, I'm sorry.
Mike Cole 5:54
That's your perogative. Alright next question should be easy for you. Have you ever worn socks with sandals?
Josh Rich 5:59
No.
Mike Cole 5:59
Sure about that?
Josh Rich 6:00
I'm very...
Mike Cole 6:00
Is that your final answer?
Josh Rich 6:01
That is my final answer.
*laughs*
Mike Cole 6:02
Okay. All right. Okay, how about barefoot with loafers?
Josh Rich 6:07
Yes, I have done that.
Jerrin Padre 6:08
Isn't that normal? I feel like, with boat shoes or loafers, you're naturally supposed to go sockless, no?
Mike Cole 6:15
Well, you can. It depends on your....
Josh Rich 6:17
They (the shoes) have preference with that.
Mike Cole 6:18
It depends on the rest of the look.
Josh Rich 6:19
Ehh.
Mike Cole 6:20
I mean, if you've got the white Don Johnson jacket with the sleeves, you know, rolled up, and the pink shirt underneath.
Jerrin Padre 6:26
Mhmm!
Mike Cole 6:25
And the white pants slightly cuffed—yeah, that's acceptable to be, you know, barefoot in loafers.
Jerrin Padre 6:32
Okay.
Mike Cole 6:32
Now, if you're barefoot-and-loafers with shorts and a T shirt, that's—no! Can't do that.
Josh Rich 6:38
And white socks, right? You can't wear white socks with that.
Mike Cole 6:41
Oh, you can. Should you? No, you should not. But that's, you know...
Josh Rich 6:45
*laughs*
Mike Cole 6:46
People check the mail and get the paper in many different forms, I think. Alright next question: what cologne do you wear?
Josh Rich 6:52
Insurrection (by Reyane Tradition).
Mike Cole 6:54
Hmm.
Jerrin Padre 6:54
I have no idea what that is
Mike Cole 6:56
Insurrection. That's a menacing name. That's very ominous. Yeah.
Josh Rich 6:59
Yeah, I guess. And now I'm thinking about it, the title of that cologne—probably not the best today. In that sense.
Jerrin Padre 7:07
Probaby not, no.
Josh Rich 7:08
Yeah, but that is a cologne that I've probably worn for 15-20 years, just for context.
Jerrin Padre 7:15
Wow.
Mike Cole 7:16
Wow. Okay,
Josh Rich 7:17
Yeah.
Mike Cole 7:17
So that is truly the go-to. All right. Well, let me ask you a follow up question to that then. Have you ever worn cologne to cover up the fact that you didn't shower?
Josh Rich 7:29
*laughs*
Maybe in middle school. I'm going back to middle school there, right? But then you get a little bit older, you realize that's not the way to go. Even if you are rushing to get from gym class or practice, right? It doesn't work.
Mike Cole 7:42
Okay. So Axe body spray is is not the same as showering. Got it. Alright. Would you rather climb a mountain or jump from a plane?
Josh Rich 7:49
Uh, climb a mountain.
Mike Cole 7:50
I dont know, I think I would...
Jerrin Padre 7:52
Too much effort.
Mike Cole 7:53
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 7:53
I want to get flown to the peak and then jump out. That's my adventure for the day.
Mike Cole 7:58
Yeah, you know, jumping from a plane—if something goes wrong, that's pretty final. But climbing a mountain—it is effort, but at least I have a chance, right? At least I can see what's ahead.
Josh Rich 8:10
That—that was kind of my rationale with that, Mike. Yeah.
Mike Cole 8:13
Yeah. Alright, if you were really hungry, Josh—if you were really hungry, would you eat a bug?
Josh Rich 8:19
No.
Mike Cole 8:20
Ah, okay.
Jerrin Padre 8:21
I thought that "mhmm" of understanding was, like, an immediate, "Mhmm! Yep! I'd eat a bug."
Josh Rich 8:26
*laughs*
Mike Cole 8:26
I did too! But that was, a "I understand the question 'mhmm'."
Jerrin + Josh 8:30
*laughs*
Mike Cole 8:30
And then there's a slight delay—so no to the bug. So I think I know the answer to this one, as you've alluded to earlier: how would you rate your karaoke skills on a scale of one to Mariah Carey?
Josh Rich 8:44
Oh, wow. One to Mariah Carey? I'll say a six. I'll put myself at a six.
Mike Cole 8:51
So what singer would be at a six? Would that be a Sia or...
Josh Rich 8:56
I'm not placing Sia at a six. I mean, Sia....
Mike Cole 8:59
Ahh, okay.
Josh Rich 9:00
... is probably an eight, or...
Mike Cole 9:02
An eight or nine? Yeah.
Josh Rich 9:04
Yeah, definitely. You know, up there.
Mike Cole 9:06
Okay, okay.
Josh Rich 9:06
And I'm not recording artists, in that sense. But I did sing Maroon 5 on a Carnival Cruise.
Mike Cole 9:14
Mmm.
Josh Rich 9:14
For karaoke night, and it went pretty good!
Jerrin Padre 9:16
Maroon 5 songs, I feel like, are some of the best to cover, right? Because they're classics. But then they're very easy to do—I don't want to say better—but to do in your own way where it's memorable, and people will be captivated by it.
Josh Rich 9:31
And it got the audience involved to!
Right! Because they know the words, but then they're also focused on your talent. So I think that's a great karaoke choice.
Mike Cole 9:39
Okay, last question. Would you rather come face-to-face with a miniature hippopotamus or a giant cockroach? Both are in a really bad mood.
Josh Rich 9:49
I mean, I still feel like I could step on a giant cockroach. Right? So I think I would go with that.
Mike Cole 9:55
Yeah, when I say giant cockroach, I'm talking, like, life-size
Josh Rich 9:59
Like Godzilla?!
Mike Cole 10:00
Big ole cockroach. Oh, yeah!
Josh Rich 10:02
Oh, that's kind of like a lose/lose, right? But in that case, I would rather see the miniature—I'll emphasize miniature—hippopotamus.
Mike Cole 10:09
Yeah, I don't like cockroaches just when they're, you know, regular size. So a giant one...
Josh Rich 10:14
Right.
Mike Cole 10:14
I'd just fall over.
Josh Rich 10:16
*laughs*
Mike Cole 10:16
Just take me out then. So there you go, Josh. How are you feeling?
Josh Rich 10:20
I'm feeling good! I'm feeling good. I would probably say I've never had any of those questions, you know, asked. Maybe aside from the dark chocolate and milk chocolate.
Mike Cole 10:29
I've had some of those questions in a job interview. That's where some of these are coming from. So there you go. Well, hopefully—yeah. And, I mean, the point of this, Josh, was to get to know you a little bit better. And just, you know, have a little fun. That's really what it's about. I think, instead of you running down a list of accomplishments that you've had—which you'll certainly have a chance to do that. We'll talk about that in the more formal setting. But you know, right now...
Josh Rich 10:51
Sure!
Mike Cole 10:52
I just wanted listeners—and Jerrin, as well—we wanted listeners just to be able to get to know you a bit better. And now they do. I think I've got some things to take away with— you know, colognes to go check out, and I'm really hungry for dark chocolate now for some reason. So there you go.
Josh Rich 11:06
*chuckles*
Jerrin Padre 11:06
Me too!
Mike Cole 11:06
So, yeah. Well, Josh, again, super happy to have you on the show. It's definitely something we've been looking forward to. And the topic we're going to talk about today—I think we've established that you have some really good insights into that, and I'm not going to try to direct the conversation much. But, I want to rewind just a little bit before we get to that.
Josh Rich 11:26
Sure.
Mike Cole 11:26
A couple of questions to kick off. So where did you grow up? And was there any sort of childhood memory or anything that kind of foreshadowed where you are today?
Josh Rich 11:37
So originally from Baltimore, Maryland, and I think I would add there, Mike, that I'm definitely a Baltimore Ravens fan. So I want to put that out there. But, in terms of a childhood memory that helped me to where I am right now, I had a few of them. And I guess the first one that comes to mind is really seeing my mother. My mother was a educator. She was an educator for over 30 years, and she retired as an administrator for Baltimore County Public Schools. And, one of the things that my mom shared with me was that, when she first started as a as a teacher—and I'm just thinking back here—probably in the 1970's. Early 1970's. The initial school that she went to, she was probably the first black teacher that that particular community saw.
Mike Cole 12:30
Hmm.
Josh Rich 12:30
And that was something that was really impactful. She took that as being a great opportunity to really help to build bridges between her experience, culture, perspective, and that of those that she was there to, you know, help educate. In terms of not only the students, but also the community, because she had the opportunity to work with a lot of those parents. So I think that that was really impactful for me to hear—about her perspective, her work experience, and, you know, how that led to her ultimately becoming an administrator. And that was something she was really proud of.
The second experience that I had that really piqued my interest—but I wasn't necessarily thinking about it from a DEI perspective in the third grade. But my brothers are 11 and 12 years older than me, and my oldest brother played college football. So I had the opportunity to travel to see his football games, and so forth. And I got a different perspective, being able to travel outside of Baltimore. Because in Baltimore, the city is predominantly African American. And, you know—I remember when I was in school, having a teacher say to the class, "You all do realize that the rest of the United States doesn't necessarily look like Baltimore, in terms of the racial makeup?" And that was a real eye opener for a lot of people, and I didn't necessarily think of it as being a difference between us as people. I just saw different, you know, shades, especially in elementary school. As I got older, you know, I became more aware of those perceived differences, and so forth.
Jerrin Padre 14:10
Did anybody in your family point those differences out to you? Or were you just observing all these things on your own and making all these conclusions kind of in your own head?
Josh Rich 14:20
It was a combination, because I think, like any child, we're learning in daily interactions. And, so, it was certain situations that either unfolded, that would spark a dialogue, you know—for example, between, you know, my dad and I. Or, you know, my brothers, based off of the experiences that they—that they have. You know, I also remember—and I'm trying to remember the exact date, but I know it was probably '92 or so—the L.A. riots, you know, happening.
Jerrin Padre 14:53
Mmm.
Josh Rich 14:53
And, my middle brother, he was doing a trip across the country. He was going to a conference In L.A., and he happened to be there during that time when the L.A. riots occurred. And so he came back...
Mike Cole 15:07
Hmm.
Josh Rich 15:07
...and he was talking to me about, obviously, what his trip was like. And here I am, as a young kid, trying to wrap my mind around—why was something like that happening? On so many levels. So I think that's what introduced me to those types of conversations: circumstances that were unfolding. And just having a have a conversation that, maybe at a young age, you would think that a child wouldn't necessarily, you know, have to have. But it was necessary.
Mike Cole 15:40
This show is supported by Media Partners. Even with the best of intentions, it's easy to say, do, or avoid something that makes someone else feel bad or uncomfortable. And today, more than ever, the focus on diversity, equity, and inclusion is on the minds of business owners, and their employees.
Jerrin Padre 15:55
We know you want to do the right thing for your people and culture. And Media Partners is here to help with Unintentional Still Hurts, an in-depth, multi-part DEI training program that offers a blueprint for positive change. Unintentional Still Hurts will be released later this month, so stay tuned for updates!
Mike Cole 16:18
So we mentioned at the beginning, with your intro, that you are D&I strategist. Tell me what that means. What does that involve?
Josh Rich 16:27
Well, I think it's—it's a matter of helping people to do what we're doing right now. And I think a lot of DEI starts with having conversations. Albeit, initially, they may be a little uncomfortable. I was listening to the intro, and, Mike, I heard you talk about the fact that you are a middle-aged, you know, white man, and so forth. And that comes up in your conversations, especially as we're talking about DEIB. And that's important. And I think, a lot of times, people will tend to think that that type of conversation is strictly about race. But we know that it's about more than race. But I don't think that, in that sense, race is something that "disqualifies" us, because the first race that we're all a part of is the human race, okay? And so we all have experiences; we have different perspectives.
And I think that when we're able to sit down, and have a conversation, like we're doing now, about why certain things may strike me a certain way, in terms of one type of situation, versus why you may see it differently—that doesn't make either of us wrong. But, if we at least give each other space to really speak in a very authentic way—being respectful, I think that has to be foundational in all of those communications, right? It really should be in all of our communication period; but nonetheless, if we're giving each other that space to ask some questions that may otherwise seem a little awkward, I think that that helps us to move beyond the barrier. And I want to say, in some ways, a artificial barrier, right? Because even if we look at each other genetically, we're over 99%, the same DNA-wise, but unfortunately, as a society, we tend to focus on that small percentage that is that is different.
And, you know, I think that we need to be able to move beyond that aspect, and really talk about us as people. So as a consultant, I'm really helping to—and I'll use that word building bridges—for how do we have those conversations? And then secondly, how do we move those conversations to action? Actionable steps that companies can take for their workforce, so that we have a more inclusive work environment that people are part of. Jerrin, I listen to you talk about your voice, and also the aspect of being younger. And I can, you know, empathize, you know, with that. Because when you're starting off, especially when you're working around people that are "more accomplished" in their careers, and so forth—they have the voice. They have a level of, I would say, "authority," and a sense that they've accumulated a track record that shows the work that they're doing.
When we're younger, and we're coming in, sometimes people are saying and stuff like, "Well, you know—hey, I've been here, and this is how we do it." Right? And they want you to jump on board with doing things the way that it's always been done. But that doesn't mean that it's going to be the correct way to do things, moving forward. So, how do we bring that together so that each person is having an understanding of the other's perspective? And it's going to be a final product, or a process, that's going to benefit the organization when everyone can feel like their voice is being heard.
Mike Cole 19:48
I know that—I know, in Media Partners, we have in our coursework—we talk a lot about being comfortable with the uncomfortable.
Josh Rich 19:57
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 19:57
And I've committed that into my journey, and, kind of, what I'm going through. And I want to make sure that listeners know—if you listen to these episodes back-to-back; yes, you're going to hear me say, more than once, I'm a middle-aged white guy hosting podcasts on DEIB. And—it's not that I'm trying to put myself on any sort of pedestal. I'm really trying to show that it is possible, that...
Josh Rich 20:22
Right.
Mike Cole 20:22
... you can start that journey. And I think what I've heard, and what I've understood in a lot of my research, and talking with friends is the biggest drawback—the biggest thing that holds people back is being afraid of saying the wrong thing.
Jerrin Padre 20:35
Yeah.
Mike Cole 20:36
Now, you add a podcast to that, that's going to go out to, you know, thousands of people—yeah, I do. I do worry about saying the wrong thing. But you know what, here's the thing: I would much rather make a mistake, learn from it, have somebody give me that grace that you talk about, give myself grace to know that I'm going to make mistakes, and be able to learn from that and move on. I would much rather do that than not say anything at all. So...
Josh Rich 21:01
Right.
Mike Cole 21:01
That's—I do want the listeners to know that that's the reason that I'm here. I think that's the reason Jerrin's here. That's the reason any of the listeners are probably here: it's trying to learn more about what we can do. So thank you for that answer. Definitely a lot of good things to take to heart there.
Josh Rich 21:17
You know, something else that I was thinking about as you were speaking—and this is in terms of just having the conversations about, let's say, race, for example. When we're having those conversations about race—and we can broaden the scope even more so— about diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. And so if we're talking about that, what we also know is that people are much more comfortable, in many ways, talking to people that they're kind of familiar with, right? Or that they feel like they have more in common with. And so one of the challenges that we have is to address the unconscious bias. And so when we talk about the unconscious bias, it's really bringing those things forward that—for many of us, we're not even aware that we're doing these things, right?
And so we want to have those conversations. And so, you know, Mike, you're going to be able to reach some people, that—if I was brought in, you know, right away to have that conversation, they may not be as welcoming, you know, to me in terms of being able to hear what it is that Josh is saying. Because they see, you know, my physical makeup, right? And they're looking at that. And so there may be unconscious bias that is going on there. Same goes for Jerrin. There are going to be people that Jerrin is going to be able to connect with, just based off of her makeup, in that sense. So I think those are things that we need to be mindful of, and just because we're different that doesn't, you know, disqualify us. But let's also be mindful, you know, of the fact that we have our own stories. We have our experiences, and people are going to look to each one of us, and our own respective ways, to help give voice and understanding to this important topic.
Mike Cole 22:58
Completely, completely agree with that. And thank you for adding that. So you mentioned your—you mentioned your mom, right? Your mom...
Josh Rich 23:04
Yes.
Mike Cole 23:05
... she was an educator. She had a lot of "firsts" in her life.
Josh Rich 23:10
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 23:10
And you kind of got to see that from the other side. What about other role models? Other mentors that kind of helped you along, and brought you under their wings, so to speak, and that you can maybe credit to getting you where you are today?
Josh Rich 23:25
You know, I feel fortunate that every stage of my life—whether it was elementary school—my first basketball coach. Coach Selby, and him just setting the tone for how I need to conduct myself in school, you know, in class, and in basketball. I mean, that was a part of it, right? But that wasn't the whole thing. But I remember those types of conversations. When I went to middle school, similar experiences. And I would also note that I went to middle school where my mom taught. And you talk about an experience...
Josh + Mike 23:57
*laughing*
Josh Rich 23:57
And, let's just say that we ended up having multiple conversations. Because I wasn't necessarily a quiet, you know, child, so to speak. And so there was a lot of reiteration, and, in some ways, redirection that my mom did.
Mike Cole 24:15
*chuckles*
Josh Rich 24:15
So that worked out for me. Being able to interact with teachers, not just during the school day, but, because I was there with her after school—seeing a different perspective. And that really helped, to see how much so many of those teachers cared about the well being of the students. So that was pivotal. At that point, some of my mom's friends would say, "Josh, you're going to be a teacher when you grow up." And I didn't want to be, because what I knew, unfortunately, was that teachers didn't make a whole lot of money.
Mike Cole 24:45
Mhmm.
Josh Rich 24:45
And so, you know, I'm thinking, "Hey, I need to pick out a profession where you can be rich."
Jerrin + Mike 24:50
*chuckling*
Josh Rich 24:50
And so along the—along the way in high school, and then also in college, you know, I was very fortunate to have mentors. But I'll speed this up and just say that, more recently, I've taken a interest into learning more about my family's history.
Jerrin Padre 25:05
Hmm.
Josh Rich 25:05
And as I've started to piece together these different pieces to the puzzle, and so forth, I've learned about my great-grandfathers. And both of my great-grandfathers fought in World War One. That was significant because, you know, at that time, they were a generation removed from slavery, but they still went to battle on behalf of this country. I mean that—to me, that just said a whole lot. It puts things in perspective. When, you know, I think about the type of opportunities that I have today, these are things that they could have only dreamed of. But to be able to have the opportunity to kind of walk in that, and then speak with you all today about this. I mean, it's just—it's amazing. And I don't take that, you know, for granted with that type of perspective. So you know, even though I didn't have the opportunity to speak to them as a grown man, learning more about their life stories has definitely had an impact upon me.
Jerrin Padre 26:03
I think it's so interesting, talking to people who are lucky enough to have that family history intact. And even just...
Josh Rich 26:11
Mhmm.
Jerrin Padre 26:11
... hear from it in real-time from their grandparents; from their great aunts and uncles. Because it really does give you an entirely different perspective on the issues that you're going through in your own life. I was raised by my parents, but also both sets of grandparents. And, you know, I just grew up hearing all of their immigration stories, all of their "firsts." Like my grandmother, my dad's mom, she came to this country with $32 in her pocket, after she had left her two-week-old son, because that was her only opportunity to come to the United States and become a nurse. So that was her ticket in, and she had this dream of building a life for her family. And she was here for a couple of years. Eventually saved enough to bring her whole family back out here, and that's, you know—my dad grew up in South Central L.A.. But I think, just, you know, growing up and hearing those stories, and I also—I grew up in a predominantly white area. So I was like one of the few people of color in this part of town. And I think just hearing those stories from my grandma, my grandpa; it gave me an entirely different perspective on how the world actually functions.
Josh Rich 27:15
Sure.
Jerrin Padre 27:15
How to have conversations with people, too! Because I think what you were saying earlier really resonated with me. And that, even though you come from different mindsets—and me and my grandparents definitely have different mindsets—hearing them out anyway, because you care about them. Not just as a grandparent—it could be anyone—just as another human being, and wanting to validate their perspective. Because I think I—you touched on this—but at our core, we all just want to be heard, and seen, and validated. Right? So allowing them to do that, and pass along that wisdom—because they feel like that's their role—made all the difference, and helps me see these conversations in a different light.
Mike Cole 27:52
Yeah.
Jerrin Padre 27:52
And I guess—sorry. That whole tangent to lead to asking you...
Josh Rich 27:57
*laughs*
Jerrin Padre 27:57
... what about the people who weren't allotted that same privilege of being able to hear those transgenerational stories, and aren't in touch with that side of their lineage, and their family? How can those folks obtain the same perspective?
Josh Rich 28:11
First, let me just say, you know, thank you for sharing a story about your grandmother, and your family. And how they emigrated to the United States and the sacrifice that went into that, because leaving a two-week-old baby...
Jerrin Padre 28:25
Yeah.
Josh Rich 28:25
Wow!
Jerrin Padre 28:26
It's crazy.
Josh Rich 28:26
That a lot, but it sounds like your grandmother—she had a different vision, right? So that's powerful. That's powerful. But, to your question, in terms of folks that do not have that connectivity, I think that there's power in being able to read books too, right? Because we can read about...
Jerrin Padre 28:45
Mhmm.
Josh Rich 28:45
... the experiences that others have had. We can learn more about history. As we learn more about history, you know, ask the question, "What would I have done if I were in that situation? If I was that situation, how would I've responded?" Or, "What lessons can I learn from, you know, the story that I'm reading, or this person's life, you know, that I'm learning about?" And then, to bring to it full-circle, I think that a underutilized tool is to have book clubs. And it's just like looking at artwork in a museum; we all can stand there, and look at a painting. And what you see, versus what it is that I see, or what it is that Mike sees; it can be three totally different things. And part of that is based off of what? Our diverse perspective. So that would be—that would be my advice for those that don't have that opportunity.
Mike Cole 29:34
So my stories of my family, and stories that shaped my perspectives—I had different input, right?
Josh Rich 29:42
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 29:42
So, we grew up in a time where we were never taught black history in high school. And it might've had a mention in a history book, but it was never a topic of conversation in school. And, it's not to say that I was given incorrect information, but I never was given full and complete information to help form some of the decisions.
Josh Rich 30:00
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 30:00
And that—you know, that has caused some consternation in my life over time of having to find things out, and having to learn things. So my question to you is: growing up in an environment like that—maybe some of our listeners are in that same spot—what advice do you have for for them to kind of start that journey of learning the truth, and learning about things? I mean, we're coming up on the 100 year anniversary of the Tulsa Massacre, right?
Josh Rich 30:27
Right!
Mike Cole 30:28
The Tulsa Race Massacre. And, I mean, it's a huge pivotal moment in history...
Josh Rich 30:33
Right.
Mike Cole 30:33
... where a mob walked into a town, and obliterated hundreds. Hundreds of families—people.
Josh Rich 30:41
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 30:41
And, this thing, it lasted for 18 hours.
Josh Rich 30:43
Right.
Mike Cole 30:44
You pull that story out, and placed it back when I was in high school—if I had heard about that, if I had known about that, I think that might have shaped my opinion of some things. And I might have had a different—you know, a sooner realization of what I could do. So how does somebody begin that journey?
Josh Rich 31:00
I mean, just continue to seek out, you know, other resources. There's so much that's available to us today, because of technology, that we can look up, from there, what organizations are within your community that are trying to help uplift everyone. And as you're having those discussions with someone that may be, you know, different from you, really talk to them. I don't think that people necessarily want to feel pitied, but just from a human perspective, if you can empathize with, "Wow, I've never experienced that. I wouldn't have wanted to go through that." Right? When I hear about the the Tulsa Riot and massacre, I learned of it—by contrast, Mike—I probably learned about that when I was in middle school.
Mike Cole 31:43
Hmm.
Josh Rich 31:43
And we heard of this concept of, you know, what's called Black Wall Street. And people talked about the makeup of the people from that town. You had lawyers, you had doctors, and African Americans.
Mike Cole 31:55
Mhmm.
Josh Rich 31:55
Blacks are there and they're thriving. And to see that all torn apart...
Jerrin Padre 31:59
Hmm.
Josh Rich 31:59
... because, you know, other people were—they were jealous.
Mike Cole 32:02
Mhmm!
Josh Rich 32:02
And they felt like, "There's no way that they should have that type of success!" That's heartbreaking. So, when we think about DEIB, and we simply hone in on the race aspect of it, we're missing out on so many other pieces that are there. And it's important, but it's still one aspect. Is that helping? I hope that's addressing what it is that you were asking there?
Mike Cole 32:23
No, it does. And I appreciate you pointing out that DEIB is so much more than race.
Josh Rich 32:29
Mhmm!
Mike Cole 32:29
There's a lot of other marginalized and underrepresented groups that are in the DEIB discussion.
Jerrin Padre 32:35
Mhmm.
Mike Cole 32:35
And while race is an important thing to talk about, it's certainly important to remember that that's not the only piece. Which leads me, kind of, to my next question. So you talk a lot about having a seat at the table, right?
Josh Rich 32:48
Mhmm!
Mike Cole 32:48
So tell us: how much of this discussion, so far, has played into having a seat at the table?
Josh Rich 32:53
I think everything, right? I think that for each of us, it's important for us to look at our story. So I really appreciate it. Your questions about, you know, my experience, because my experience shaped my career. That is why another seat at the table is so important, because we're able to amplify the experiences, share our voices, and then also help to create or shift strategy if necessary.
Jerrin Padre 33:20
How did you fight the imposter syndrome of being a first timer in a boardroom?
Josh Rich 33:24
Right.
Jerrin Padre 33:25
And then having to field all of these executives' questions/concerns? So how should folks fight that voice that's inside their head saying, "Oh, god, what am I doing here? I'm not supposed to be here. They're asking me something. I'm nervous." And then spiraling.
Josh Rich 33:39
Right. So, you know, there was a term that I learned when I was growing up, and it was—I think it's called the Five P's. It says, "Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance," right? And so one of those things that I learned—and I'm (gonna) actually shout my dad out on this one—because when I was younger, I used to have a lot of ideas. And he would say, "Alright, Josh, it's good to have an idea. But you need to have two answers." Okay. "So how are you going to overcome those objections that are presented to you? Because anybody can talk about it. But have you really taken the time to think through possible solutions for the questions that they're going to ask you?"
And so, as I prepared, I became more confident. Now, no matter how much you prepare, I think it's very likely that you're going to get questions that you never thought of, but that's okay. And so if there's more research that you need to do, I think it's better to say, "Hey, I don't have the answer to that just yet. But I can get that answer for you." And then I can come back with it, right? And then lastly, I would just say that I think that it's normal for us to feel a level of uncertainty, to feel a little nervous—dare I say, you know, that imposter syndrome because you're wondering...
Jerrin Padre 34:54
Mhmm.
Josh Rich 34:54
... "Why am I here versus somebody else?" If you're in that seat, there's a reason why you're there. Trust in your experience, trust in your perspective. Be respectful. And I think that that is going to help you feel more confident.
Jerrin Padre 35:10
I'm so glad this is recorded because I can...
Mike Cole 35:12
*chuckles*
Josh Rich 35:12
*laughs*
Jerrin Padre 35:12
... just go back and listen to this when I need to hype myself up before I pitch something, or I'm gonna go into the room. That's great!
Josh Rich 35:19
Awesome!
Jerrin Padre 35:19
I know we have—I know we only have a couple more minutes, so I'll be quick. But I think the last thing we wanted to ask you was is—it's pretty exhausting to have a seat at the table, especially for first timers, right?
Josh Rich 35:31
Mhmm.
Jerrin Padre 35:31
And to be that only representative of a different perspective in a room. So, what advice you have for the people who already have seats at the table to make that environment a little bit more friendly?
Josh Rich 35:43
Mhmm.
Jerrin Padre 35:43
Or collaborative? And also, what can they do to bring more chairs to the table?
Josh Rich 35:48
So one of the ideas that I've heard, and I've worked to implement even more so myself—and I don't think it's a heavy lift—but if you are the facilitator, or a host of a meeting, one of the things that you can do is to go through the room and say, "Mike, I know that we're coming up on the end of our meeting here. Is there anything that maybe we've overlooked?" Or, "Did you have a idea that you think would be valuable for us to really take a look at?" And give Mike the opportunity to say, "Yes, here's my idea!" Or, "No, actually, I think we've covered everything." And then you go to the next person. And if you're with a team of folks, and you go around the room in that way, it does a few things: one, it makes sure that everybody knows—because you have some people that will listen and take notes the entire meeting ,and if you don't call on them, they're not going to say anything, right? But that doesn't mean that they don't have something valuable to share that can really help the team overall. The second thing that I believe that does is that, just based off of our personalities, some of us are more likely to speak when questions are asked, right? And sometimes the loudest person in a room, they become the one whose idea is going to be listened to by the leaders of that particular group. And so you're not necessarily neutralizing that person—because you still want them to use their voice—but you're making sure that they're not just talking over everybody else. And you truly get that team aspect that is being cultivated within your organization there, because everyone is having the opportunity to have their voice be heard.
Mike Cole 37:26
Josh, thank you. The work that you're doing is incredible. It's important. It's needed. And we just want to thank you for taking just a bit of time out of your day to sit with us, and talk about some things, and help our listeners understand more about having a seat at the table, and having those conversations. So thank you!
Josh Rich 37:42
Well, thank you both. And thank you to the audience. It was an honor to be here. Thank you!
Mike Cole 37:47
Well, Jerrin, any last words?
Jerrin Padre 37:49
I'm so, so glad that this podcast is in seasons, because we've gotten so many good book recommendations, and class recommendations, and resource recommendations...
Josh Rich 37:58
*laughs*
Jerrin Padre 37:58
... that Mike and I will have a hiatus to actually read all of it...
Josh Rich 38:02
That's awesome.
Jerrin Padre 38:03
... and digest all of it, so that we can come back stronger for season two.
Mike Cole 38:07
Yep, sounds great. Thanks again, Josh. Definitely been great conversation. Appreciate you doing this. You're a voice that certainly needs to be heard right now. And thank you folks for listening in! Glad you could join us for this episode. And until next time, this has been Peoplecast.
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